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John McClane's sidekick, Al, goes up against Riggs's partner Murtaugh. Steel cage death match.

The cage has weapons mounted on each wall. Baseball bat, crowbar, katana and a pitchfork.

McClane and Riggs are in their corners. McClane is offering advice to Al, Riggs to Murtaugh.


Who wins?

Al katanas Murtaugh, right off the bat.

(Which is good, because its the first time that Al katana'ed anyone since the time he accidentally katana'ed that kid once...)

Murtaugh is caught while rotating and cricking his neck, while saying "Im too old for thi-" before he is beheaded.





McClane will motivate his man by telling him that Murtaugh has eaten all the hostess cakes.

Murtaugh is in better shape, taller, longer reach, plus Riggs tells him that Al deflowered his baby girl.

Al ftw

Based on.....what? "Al FTW" is a lame answer. If you think Al will win, then tell us why. Bear in mind he displayed ZERO h2h fighting skills, while Murtaugh at least kicked a bit of ass.

Is this a spite thread?

Obviously, Murtaugh.

Its a sidekick thread, thats all.

It should have been Zeus vs Murtaugh

Oh shit, thread idea

Who the hell is Al? Murtaugh sucks though, whoever Al is he wins.

Hardly, all Al did was eat twinkies. Murtaugh took on Jet Li, landed a few punches, and stabbed his ass.

Yet at other times, you tried to maintain that Al was an indispensable sidekick like Riggs and his wife here are.

He was, he helped in different ways though.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Murtaugh took on Jet Li, landed a few punches, and stabbed his ass.

Someone better notify PETA. ha-son

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He was, he helped in different ways though.

Still no comparison.
Al provided a bit of intelligence every now and then in Diehard 1, and in one scene in Diehard 2....thats all.

True he shot Karl, but that could a been any of the many cops, once Karl had produced and levelled and aimed a machine gun at a crowd.

But they met once.

Once.

Whereas Riggs and Muratugh must thank f**k that they are in California, so that their marriage can be made legit.
They are two halves of a buddy act.

For an accurate pound-for-pound matchup of true sidekicks, you'd have to have Al Powell versus Leo Getz, ferchissakes.

What does this have to do with Roger wiping the floor with Al?

Al, easy.

Murtaugh always does that stupid head-rotation move before he attacks. Al will capitalize on that and strike first, via katana to the face, pitch fork to the eye, baseball bat to the forehead and/or crowbar to the testicles.

Also of note: Don't let Al's fatness fool you, it may slow him down a little, but the fat adds up to one massive damage soak.

I see, so screen feats are out the window then?



Give it up, man, Al gets his ass handed to him here.

Originally posted by Robtard


Murtaugh always does that stupid head-rotation move before he attacks.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I see, so screen feats are out the window then?

Give it up, man, Al gets his ass handed to him here.

I used screen feats, sir. Murtuagh has a weakness, he always pauses to do that stupid head-rotation move; this can/will be exploited. Al's fat, this gives him a layer of protection, especially from blunt-force trauma. Ergo, Al +2.

I recall you consistently saying "give it up" in the Riggs Vs McClane thread. As it turns out, you've admitted you were dead wrong all along.

Originally posted by Robtard
I used screen feats, sir. Murtuagh has a weakness, he always pauses to do that stupid head-rotation move. This can/will be exploited.

I recall you consistently saying "give it up" in the Riggs s McClane thread. As it turns out, you've admitted you were dead wrong all along.

Hmm, I dont recall him using the head rotation move when he fought Jet Li. He only uses that when he shoots his gun, and there is no gun here.

Rog has a height advantage.
Rog has a reach advantage.
Rog has a speed advantage.
Rog is in better shape.
Rog has a way higher damage soak.
Rog kicked ass onscreen.

"On screen feats" = on screen h2h fights. Rog has them aplenty, Al has none, unless you count him downing an entire box of twinkies as an on screen feat.

Math is good, what else ya got?

LoL, NOW you're playing the "screen feats" rule, when it was nowhere to be found in your argument in the Sideswipe Vs Bumblebee thread, you silly bastard.

Fair enough though, Murtuagh wins. Unless Al mistakes Murtaugh for a chocolate covered twinkie and eats him.

Chocolate covered twinkie haermm

OK, lets switch gears here, gun battle? Each armed with a .357 wheel gun, in a dunkin donuts? To give Al a chance here, they are fighting over a dozen bear claws.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Chocolate covered twinkie haermm

OK, lets switch gears here, gun battle? Each armed with a .357 wheel gun, in a dunkin donuts? To give Al a chance here, they are fighting over a dozen bear claws.

Going by screen feats, Murtaugh still wins, obviously.

Now be a man and admit your argument in the SS V BB thread was faulty, going by these same rules you're applying in this thread, which would be the valid rules of the forum.

Originally posted by Robtard
Going by screen feats, Murtaugh still wins, obviously.

Now be a man and admit your argument in the SS V BB thread was faulty, going by these same rules you're applying in this thread, which would be the valid rules of the forum. Faulty how? SS fought h2h onscreen, Al didn't. If Al pwned Karl with his fists instead of his gun, then he would have a chance here.


Zero onscreen feats, dude.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Faulty how? SS fought h2h onscreen, Al didn't. If Al pwned Karl with his fists instead of his gun, then he would have a chance here.


Zero onscreen feats, dude.

Because SS's onscreen feats where inferior to BB's. SS has one minor feat, BB has them in spades, it's that simple.

Same logic you applied here, Al had one screen feat, Murtaugh has them in spades (haha, I did go there).

Amazing how you'll apply the rule, only when it fits you. Be a man, there's no shame in conceding you were wrong.

Wrong how? I took SS's one fight and used it as an argument. IMO, he is faster than BB, and his blades will cut BB to ribbons, that's my argument.

You know full well I admit openly when I have been proven wrong.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wrong how? I took SS's one fight and used it as an argument. IMO, he is faster than BB, and his blades will cut BB to ribbons, that's my argument.

You know full well I admit openly when I have been proven wrong.

Screen feats tell us otherwise. So.

Sometimes, dude. SOMETIMES. Be a man.

Exactly, and SS had a screen feat to work with, see how that works?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Exactly, and SS had a screen feat to work with, see how that works?

No, not exactly. SS had one minor screen feats showing he could kill a Transformer who was speeding away from him in car form. BB has multiple ass-kickings vs multiple opponents.

Logic dictates BB would win. Or just apply the same logic you used here, in this thread, to deduce that Murtaugh would beat Al.

-Murtaugh has more/better screen fighting feats, ergo, Murtaugh > Al.

-BB has more/better screen fighting feats, ergo, BB > SS.

Like you said, "math is good." Be a man.

BB is a better h2h combatant as far as punching and kicking go, but CAN he take down SS? CAN he avoid SS's blades? And IF SS connects with his blades, CAN BB's armor hold up?

Let's talk about it there.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
BB is a better h2h combatant as far as punching and kicking go, but CAN he take down SS? CAN he avoid SS's blades? And IF SS connects with his blades, CAN BB's armor hold up?

Let's talk about it there.

Murtaugh is a better h2h combatant as far as punching and kicking go, but CAN he take down Al? Can he avoid Al's Katana/crowbar/baseball bat/pitch fork? And IF Al connects with his weapon, CAN Murtaugh's body hold up?

See. This is why "onscreen feats" take precedence over fanboyism. It's silly to ignore it in that thread, yet swear by it in this one. Be a man.

And who's to say Murtaugh wont have the katana? See, Murtaugh showed his ability to use his surroundings when he stabbed Jet Li. Al never showed this.

See, when I asked who would win in a h2h battle to the death out of Rambo and Huo Yuanjia, you say Huo, why? Rambo killed more h2h than Huo. Explain.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And who's to say Murtaugh wont have the katana? See, Murtaugh showed his ability to use his surroundings when he stabbed Jet Li. Al never showed this.

See, when I asked who would win in a h2h battle to the death out of Rambo and Huo Yuanjia, you say Huo, why? Rambo killed more h2h than Huo. Explain.

Murtaugh is taking this simply because he showed more onscreen feats and is proven. Same as BB Vs SS, BB win because of his onscreen feats. Just apply the same logic, it's not hard. Be a man.

I don't recall. I also don't know who Huo is, off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Robtard
Murtaugh is taking this simply because he showed more onscreen feats and is proven. Same as BB Vs SS, BB win because of his onscreen feats. Just apply the same logic, it's not hard. Be a man.

I don't recall. I also don't know who Huo is, off the top of my head. Enough with the BB/SS shit, wrong thread.

Huo is Jet Li's character in Fearless.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Enough with the BB/SS shit, wrong thread.

Huo is Jet Li's character in Fearless.

This is more about applying the rules across all threads; not just when it suits your argument, than it is about BB Vs SS. Be a man.

Okay. He could beat Rambo. His onscreen feats showed him to be a more capable fighter, unless you made pro-Rambo settings to dictate the win.

So Huo takes it because he displayed himself a more skilled fighter, yes?

BTW, Dutch just pwned the Predator, and the DVD didnt skip even once.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So Huo takes it because he displayed himself a more skilled fighter, yes?

BTW, Dutch just pwned the Predator, and the DVD didnt skip even once.

From what I can recall of that shit movie, he did. He also displayed some super-human like abilities, no? Whatever you're getting at, the fact remains that BB showed himself to be the better fighter, over SS. Be a man.

Good. I got a bad batch of DVD's. Made 10 coasters for a friend last week. Damn Taiwanese brand.

Well, IMO SS showed himself to be a more efficient killing machine wth his one feat.

*hums Raiders of the lost Ark theme*

Yes, that was a hint.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well, IMO SS showed himself to be a more efficient killing machine wth his one feat.

*hums Raiders of the lost Ark theme*

Yes, that was a hint.

By killing an opponent in car form who was fleeing, ie not fighting back. Just apply the same rules, it's not hard. BB would win. Be a man.

*hums you're not applying the same rules in both threads*

What matters is the end result, dude was sliced in half like hot butter. Lets say SS hits BB in the midsection with his blades, you think they will do nothing to B?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What matters is the end result, dude was sliced in half like hot butter. Lets say SS hits BB in the midsection with his blades, you think they will do nothing to B?

Going by screen feats, the end result would be BB winning due to far superior (and shown) fighting skills.

I think it would damage him.

Be a man.

It would damage him, thank you.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It would damage him, thank you.

You're welcome. What's your point though? BB's been hit/damaged before, when he took on the bulldozer and cat, he got ripped up, yet his fighting prowess pulled him a win, despite being smaller and outnumbered. This would be no different, going by onscreen feats of both opponents.

Be a man.

haermm Take it to the BB SS thread, YOU be a man.

Your man-being powers are definitely in question here RJ, youve refused to admit that as Robtard quite rightly pointed out, you are being very uber hypocritical and double standardy when it suits your desire to be opposite, debating positions wise.

Always mass debating while ignoring the basics.

Since you are refusing yo be a man, admitting your wrongness, you drag this out til all and sundry are forced to accpet that rather than be a man, you'd prefer to be the debate equivalent of some ladyboy..

Here's the score...

SS has a screen feat, Al does not. I think SS's one screen feat trumps BB's screen feats.

Now.....I know where you guys are coming from. "He sliced sideways in half while he was running away!!!!"

I got that. I understand that. All I am saying is this: SS is too fast for BB. BB will not hit him with his cannons. It will go CQC, and when it does, SS's blades will make short work of BB.

Is that so hard to understand? I'm not saying I'm right or wrong here, I am just saying it is my OPINION.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here's the score...

SS has a screen feat, Al does not. I think SS's one screen feat trumps BB's screen feats.
complete non sequitur of logic)



No onscreen feats to prove any of that.



And can you not just change it then, when provided with contrary proof/and or good countering theories...?

Hey, it's my opinion, man, that's all I can say.

Which is fair enough, if its not not expected to take precidence over ones based on facts, logic and reason.

Stupid

Que...?

Donde Esta la biblioteca Sadako?

Enchiladas.

RJ,

Sea un hombre.

Originally posted by Quincy
Donde Esta la biblioteca Sadako?

Si. Izquierda, derecha, sigue derecho...busque el gordo cerdo loco Harry Potter pervertir (al albergue juvenil), Izquierda, fumar la marihuana, y hacia el sol.

Double postage edit!

Woohoooooo!

Hot tamale chili pepper.

Por que estamos hablando en espanol? No mas hablar en espanol, por favor. Ademas, mis huevos son gigantescos. Quieres un gusto?



Oh, and...


Que arriba.

and...


A la luna, bebe.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
SS is too fast for BB. BB will not hit him with his cannons. It will go CQC, and when it does, SS's blades will make short work of BB.

Is that so hard to understand?

Not at all.

You're scripting a fight the way you want it to go despite evidence to the contrary. It's utterly foolish to such such a contentious screen feat trumps Bumblebee fighting and defeating multiple Decepticons, two at once even.

You're wrong to suggest so.

Is THAT so hard to understand?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Is THAT so hard to understand?

-AC

No.


SS is faster and more skilled than BB. No contest. BB's only hope is to land a shot with one of his marginally effective arm canons. However, even then, I see SS dodging those, no problem.


You see, for me, it's silly to think BB even stands a chance against SS and his blades. I am/was quite shocked to see how many people are/was on the BB wagon of victory. For me, it doesn't make sense that BB stands a chance. If they started close, it'd be over in 3 seconds with BB in pieces and SS ending with "damn, I'm good."

Originally posted by dadudemon
No.


SS is faster and more skilled than BB. No contest. BB's only hope is to land a shot with one of his marginally effective arm canons. However, even then, I see SS dodging those, no problem.


You see, for me, it's silly to think BB even stands a chance against SS and his blades. I am/was quite shocked to see how many people are/was on the BB wagon of victory. For me, it doesn't make sense that BB stands a chance. If they started close, it'd be over in 3 seconds with BB in pieces and SS ending with "damn, I'm good."

Is this the arrangement you two have?

You protect him by arguing for him, then he can just come in and say he agrees without having to produce his own argument?

Well, that may be rhetorical since RJ seems to believe you, and I quote "step up to bat" for him. Do me an honest favour and let him argue his own battles, k? Let him fight his own battles, Dudemon. He feels like you bat for him because you are a good friend, you have described him as pathetically naive. RJ was right, it seems. One of you says you disagree on a lot, one of you says the opposite. On that note, I'm not sure what the deal is with you two, but I would like it if you let him address his own points for once. Any time I debate with the guy, you stand in front of him and start wrapping him in cotton wool. Any time ANYONE does, actually.

Is that what it is? You spend so much time saying that RJ can handle himself, that you don't let him do it because you know you're wrong? I'm asking you civilly, just let him reply to his own debates. Stop replying for the guy.

Anyway. based on what, do you say that Swipe is faster? On what do you base the claim that he's more skillful? He's done one thing and that was drive around, skate a bit and jump through the air. How do you determine that he's a faster fighter? We've never seen him fight. Bumblebee has beaten two Decepticons at once using what seems to be martial arts, so how is he not as skillful? When Swipe was hiding behind a wall firing his weapon, Bumblebee was in the mix having a fight with Ravage and Rampage.

You and RJ are just deciding Swipe would win because you want him to. I like Sideswipe more than Bumblebee, but that doesn't mean he'd win. All available signs suggest he wouldn't, and your only counter is "He would, he's faster and his blades would win him the fight.".

Sorry, but you've got nothing.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Is this the arrangement you two have?

You protect him by arguing for him, then he can just come in and say he agrees without having to produce his own argument?

Well, that may be rhetorical since RJ seems to believe you, and I quote "step up to bat" for him. Do me an honest favour and let him argue his own battles, k? Let him fight his own battles, Dudemon. He feels like you bat for him because you are a good friend, you have described him as pathetically naive.

RJ was right, it seems. One of you says you disagree on a lot, one of you says the opposite.

On that note, I'm not sure what the deal is with you two, but I would like it if you let him address his own points for once. Any time I debate with the guy, you stand in front of him and start wrapping him in cotton wool. Any time ANYONE does, actually.

Is that what it is? You spend so much time saying that RJ can handle himself, that you don't let him do it because you know you're wrong? I'm asking you civilly, just let him reply to his own debates. Stop replying for the guy.


Hey.


Just stop trolling for once and actually try to be civil. Is it REALLY that difficult for you?

What is wrong with you? There is something seriously wrong with you, bro.

And, yes, RJ can, at times, be pathetically naive. Bitches take advantage of my homie and he just tries to bend over backwards. That's just a fault of him being waaaaay too nice.


That has NOTHING to do with MY perspective on the topic.


Yeah, just disregard the threads where we argued for pages and pages.

Could you, I dunno, stop being a troll for just a bit? It's hit and miss with you. Sometimes, I can have a good conversation with you without you getting emotional and turning it into a shit slinging fest.

So, prove that I'm always there to backup RJ. ALWAYS, or even a majority of the time. You'll just have to search all of his recent posts and check to see if I "step up" for RJ.

Go ahead, prove it.

By the way, your post will be reported as trolling because you damn well know that most of your post is a massive bait/troll post that it horribly off topic and has nothing to do with my on topic post.


This is a thread that has people posting in it. Some people post their opinions in it. I posted my opinion to your opinion (which is irrelevant of RJ's posts and opinions). My opinion was civil. You should have learned by now, with all of your warnings and bans, to keep on topic and not turn things into personal attacks and ***** fests. It is astounding that you still haven't learned that.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Anyway. based on what, do you say that Swipe is faster?

Screen feats. Did you watch the same thing I did?


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You and RJ are just deciding Swipe would win because you want him to. I like Sideswipe more than Bumblebee, but that doesn't mean he'd win. All available signs suggest he wouldn't, and your only counter is "He would, he's faster and his blades would win him the fight.".

Sorry, but you've got nothing.

I decided SS would win based on how swiftly easily he moves about (which is superior to BB) and how easily his blade cut through a transformer. He's faster, more agile, and his blade is obviously a much better offensive weapon than BB's arm canons.

If I had my choice, in a Mech Warrior type game, between BB's arm canons and SS's arm blades/back canon, I'd obviously choose SS. However, there's something else here that makes the choice much much easier: SS is much more agile and he's significantly faster. It's actually a no brainer to determine that SS has the better offensive character. He would make a scrap pile of BB in mere seconds, as I said earlier.


Now, we can talk about defensive capability of each character. Shall we take it there?



Also, I highly recommend you keep the conversation more civil. There's not reason to change a civil conversation about fictional characters into a b****ing match that does nothing but lower the quality and intelligence of the discussion.

Edit.

Wrong thread.

Whoa, E drama haermm