Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

In "The Time Machine" Wells proposed a future where millions of years of evolution had split humanity into species that could be traced back to the class differences of his time. The modern world offers the possibility that we might not need so long to see it happen.

Unarguably medical technology has always allowed the wealthy to live longer and better than the poor. As technology makes it possible to improve the brain and body further (which is already happening) do you think we are likely to see the world split between an upperclass that is increasingly transhuman and an underclass that is physically incapable of catching up?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In "The Time Machine" Wells proposed a future where millions of years of evolution had split humanity into species that could be traced back to the class differences of his time. The modern world offers the possibility that we might not need so long to see it happen.

Unarguably medical technology has always allowed the wealthy to live longer and better than the poor. As technology makes it possible to improve the brain and body further (which is already happening) do you think we are likely to see the world split between an upperclass that is increasingly transhuman and an underclass that is physically incapable of catching up?

I posted on this concept, already.

I deemed those with the means to adapt and augment as the "hyperperfects."


Here's the post.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I have termed the "God defyers" as "hyperperfects". Yes, humanity would diverge into two groups. Race would no longer be defined by skin color but race would be defined as the "hyperperfects" and the "lessers" and varying degrees inbetween. If humanity suffers atrocities that require artificial construction of DNA, those who do not have the "mods" should die off, eventually. These extreme religionist homeschooler types would definitely fall under the category of the "lessers"...because of their stubborn beliefs...again, they would call the hyperperfects the "God Defyers". This would force the subconscious, almost instinctual, behaviors to come to the surface and be questioned by those labeled as the "lessers". The "lessers" who employ adequate willpower to throw their indoctrinations aside would adapt and take gene therapy and artificially create their children.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I posted on this concept, already.

I deemed those with the means to adapt and augment as the "hyperperfects."


Here's the post.

That assumes that the ability to improve children or one's self will quickly become very cheap and very widely available. Even at the price of an average computer (read: not a chance) there would be innumerable people for whom it wouldn't be any sort of option. As jobs come to needenhanced people the one's who didn't have the money for it will be unable to get a job with a meaningful salary and then cycles begins again.

I've long said that humanity is the 1st species to change it's own evolution. A big part of that, for the time being at least, will be for those who can afford it. The so called "designer baby" concept can only increase in scale the more we grow our understanding of the genetic makeup of our own species.

It won't just be superficial though. It'll be genetic elimination of succeptibility to diseases or malformations.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That assumes that the ability to improve children or one's self will quickly become very cheap and very widely available.

I-it will.

It's as simple as getting an injection with a virus. Dead serious.

It will eventually cost around that of an immunization.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Even at the price of an average computer (read: not a chance)

I know, it will be far cheaper.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
there would be innumerable people for whom it wouldn't be any sort of option.

That's not true at all. Who wouldn't want a super memory, super regeneration, super stamina, super matabolism, super heart health, super cholesterol maintenance, super etc. etc. etc.?

And, considering it would be at the cost of a simple injection of a virus, seems everyone with a little spare money will be able to afford it.



That's not all of it, though. The Hyperperfects will not JUST augment with genetics. They will augment with cybernetics, which is really what the gap will be in.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
As jobs come to needenhanced people the one's who didn't have the money for it will be unable to get a job with a meaningful salary and then cycles begins again.

Most jobs will be eliminated, slowly, over time, by Virtual Intelligence and possibly, artificial intelligence.

But, yes, in the beginning, there will be a sharp rise in the gap between the Hyperperfects and Lessers. The gap should narrow due to altruistic activities from the Hyperperfects, or war will be waged by the lessers against the Hyperperfects such as germ warfare.


I theorize that the Lessers or the Anti-Hyperperfects will create some sort of massive germ bomb that will cause the "expensive" cybernetics and/or augmentations to become null, malfunction, or cause death to the modified. It is also possible that the superiority of the Hyperfects will cause an extermination and/or mandatory augment. I can picture Lessers being hunted down by "hunters" and being forced through processing. It is also possible that the two groups will, largely, live in peace. Sure, there will be a lot of people that live between the top Hyperperfects and the truly Lessers, but, there will be a general class divide based on augmentations, for sure.

I view the lessers are needing to be eliminated, already. Supposing we gain full mastery of things like complete genetic construction, gene therapy, and cybernetics, the sky is really the limit. I picture the singularity occurring sometime this century...or at least God-like AI or collective intelligence.




Originally posted by jaden101
I've long said that humanity is the 1st species to change it's own evolution. A big part of that, for the time being at least, will be for those who can afford it. The so called "designer baby" concept can only increase in scale the more we grow our understanding of the genetic makeup of our own species.

It won't just be superficial though. It'll be genetic elimination of succeptibility to diseases or malformations.

Bingo.

flying cars FTW

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In "The Time Machine" Wells proposed a future where millions of years of evolution had split humanity into species that could be traced back to the class differences of his time. The modern world offers the possibility that we might not need so long to see it happen.

Unarguably medical technology has always allowed the wealthy to live longer and better than the poor. As technology makes it possible to improve the brain and body further (which is already happening) do you think we are likely to see the world split between an upperclass that is increasingly transhuman and an underclass that is physically incapable of catching up? Until Revolution comes. Then it'll be more like Beneath the Planet of the Apes, with the defeated Haves living in fear of the Have-Nots swarming the surface.

Yes, we will see many, many interesting things happen in our lifetimes.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I-it will.

It's as simple as getting an injection with a virus. Dead serious.

It will eventually cost around that of an immunization.


I know, it will be far cheaper.


That's not true at all. Who wouldn't want a super memory, super regeneration, super stamina, super matabolism, super heart health, super cholesterol maintenance, super etc. etc. etc.?

And, considering it would be at the cost of a simple injection of a virus, seems everyone with a little spare money will be able to afford it.

The price comes from the cost of development, which will be immense, not the cost of ditribution (plus some greed capitalism). Drugs are expensive today for the same reason and my interest isn't in the cost a hundred and fifty years from now, more like thirty to fifty. And yes the singularity could happen tomorrow, but it won't.

Any gap will occur at the beginning not at the point where we're all The Culture and gaps like that tend to last a very long time, especially when one side can "prove" that they are superior. Slave owners could have freed their slaves by doing literally nothing at all and it still took millenia to outlaw it and it still exists to this day.

As for the ease of making and distrubuting a vaccine . . . well look at the US right now (unless you ascribe to the "they're trying to put as many people in slight danger as possible as part of a massive sacrifice to Ba'al" theory).

Originally posted by dadudemon
But, yes, in the beginning, there will be a sharp rise in the gap between the Hyperperfects and Lessers. The gap should narrow due to altruistic activities from the Hyperperfects, or war will be waged by the lessers against the Hyperperfects such as germ warfare.

Because if there's one group of people that can wage biological warfare against an entire race of superhumans it's a bunch of dirt poor peasants with no jobs

Originally posted by dadudemon
I view the lessers are needing to be eliminated, already. Supposing we gain full mastery of things like complete genetic construction, gene therapy, and cybernetics, the sky is really the limit. I picture the singularity occurring sometime this century...or at least God-like AI or collective intelligence.

You want to kill off a group of people that doesn't even exist yet? Hitler would be proud.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The price comes from the cost of development, which will be immense, not the cost of ditribution (plus some greed capitalism).

No, what I said.

Costs will be high during development (there are some that think there was gene doping in the last olympic games and they are already working on ways to detect gene doping), but it will come way down. It will be quite cheap.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Drugs are expensive today for the same reason and my interest isn't in the cost a hundred and fifty years from now, more like thirty to fifty. And yes the singularity could happen tomorrow, but it won't.

You probably mean in 3-5 years, not 30-50 years.



Gene therapy will be quite inexpensive.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Any gap will occur at the beginning not at the point where we're all The Culture and gaps like that tend to last a very long time, especially when one side can "prove" that they are superior. Slave owners could have freed their slaves by doing literally nothing at all and it still took millenia to outlaw it and it still exists to this day.

K. So what I said.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
As for the ease of making and distrubuting a vaccine . . . well look at the US right now (unless you ascribe to the "they're trying to put as many people in slight danger as possible as part of a massive sacrifice to Ba'al" theory).

K.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Because if there's one group of people that can wage biological warfare against an entire race of superhumans it's a bunch of dirt poor peasants with no jobs

When you counter a point, you have to logically counter it.

Think about what's wrong with your statement and get back to me. Reread my post.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You want to kill off a group of people that doesn't even exist yet? Hitler would be proud.

You are all sorts of pissed for some reason. I don't know why. Calm down.

You do know that the Lessers would be eliminated by simply getting injections, don't you? And, eliminated is not death.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Costs will be high during development (there are some that think there was gene doping in the last olympic games and they are already working on ways to detect gene doping), but it will come way down. It will be quite cheap.

You probably mean in 3-5 years, not 30-50 years.

Gene therapy will be quite inexpensive.

Alright, perhaps I underestimated how fast medical science is moving forward. On the other hand you seem to be expecting an unprecedented sort of behavior.

Originally posted by dadudemon
K. So what I said.

That's not a response at all . . .

Originally posted by dadudemon
Think about what's wrong with your statement and get back to me. Reread my post.

You think that "lessers" will be among the wealthy and powerful? If not any conflict between transhumans and unmodified people (who would be far less wealthy) would necessarily end with victory by the transhumans.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Alright, perhaps I underestimated how fast medical science is moving forward. On the other hand you seem to be expecting an unprecedented sort of behavior.

Nah. It'll be cheap. Sure, it costs a lot to develop now because it's still a new technology. After it's fully developed, it will be cheap as hell because it's basically growing viruses.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's not a response at all . . .

Sure it is.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You think that "lessers" will be among the wealthy and powerful? If not any conflict between transhumans and unmodified people (who would be far less wealthy) would necessarily end with victory by the transhumans.

Not really. Go back and reread what I posted.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


Unarguably medical technology has always allowed the wealthy to live longer and better than the poor. As technology makes it possible to improve the brain and body further (which is already happening) do you think we are likely to see the world split between an upperclass that is increasingly transhuman and an underclass that is physically incapable of catching up?

Arguably that is WRONG! people who have live up to 100 or more (oldest people alive i.e. world records) are not the wealthiest people. They reside either in average income villages and occasionally get media attention.

Wells was the bomb - best director/actor ever.

Billy Leonard

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
Arguably that is WRONG! people who have live up to 100 or more (oldest people alive i.e. world records) are not the wealthiest people. They reside either in average income villages and occasionally get media attention.

Outliers do not trump averages. There are also far more people that aren't rich so there's a better chance of a few of them happening to live longer.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
do you think we are likely to see the world split between an upperclass that is increasingly transhuman and an underclass that is physically incapable of catching up?


I'm inclined to believe that the rich will continue to own the upper hand over illness and diseases but i think it still comes to genes. Some people are simply more prone to cancer and illness and some fight these illnesses better than others. I'm sure there will come a point where cancers thin the heard a great deal but those born by genetic engineering will easily out live those who are naturally conceived. So, yeah, i guess the rich, or those who can afford to have their children genetically engineered will become meta-human

As of now, however, Life expectancy still relies a great deal on the individual. How well do you take care of yourself?

ob