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fighting abilities only, identical bodies..who takes it?

Superman easily

Superman, but only slightly.

Cyclops is the more technical fighter. He's bound by the styles he uses. Superman is more flexible from what i've seen.

Either way, its close.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman, but only slightly.

Cyclops is the more technical fighter. He's bound by the styles he uses. Superman is more flexible from what i've seen.

Either way, its close. Nice breakdown~

Superman been displaying it more lately, thanks to New Krypton arc

Cyke but its close.

Cyke.

superman

cyke. he's shown me he can take on 4-5 guys at once with just his hand to hand skills.

Originally posted by rotiart cyke. he's shown me he can take on 4-5 guys at once with just his hand to hand skills.

And that was with his eyes closed

and that was an extremely rare display of that level of skill for cyke.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman easily lol

Originally posted by namorsubby
and that was an extremely rare display of that level of skill for cyke.

if you had a death ray inside your eyes, you wouldn't take the time to punch people, would you?

Cyclops!

Originally posted by -Pr-
if you had a death ray inside your eyes, you wouldn't take the time to punch people, would you? superman has a death ray in his eyes too......and much, much more.


still, based on his training/trainers, it wouldn't make sense for cyke to be superior.

Originally posted by namorsubby
superman has a death ray in his eyes too......and much, much more.

yeah but the big difference is Supes durability, strength and speed. 3 good reasons to go H2H sometimes, Cykes has only his optic blast as a power take that away and he is nothing special anymore (I know tactical knowledge in good shape etc. but you get my point)

Originally posted by namorsubby
superman has a death ray in his eyes too......and much, much more.


still, based on his training/trainers, it wouldn't make sense for cyke to be superior.

except that superman's training has taught him how to effectively incorporate his powerset...
he hardly, if ever fights without it...

cyclops on the other hand, has been training in hand to hand ever since he felt helpless years ago and apparently went to wolverine for training. he went from slim summers to the physique he has now... so he isn't a person that relies solely on his eyeblasts anymore... thats just his obvious powerset... how often do you see storm doing hand to hand...

and the biggest argument.. .is that both are suddenly pput into regular human bodies... superman hasan't been in a regular human body a single day in his life... cyclops power set is exactly the same except he loses the optic blasts.

Originally posted by rotiart
apparently went to wolverine for training.

* when did this happen?

superman, he's used pressure points (which i don't think cyclops has used), and he knows various fighting forms, it might be close though since I don't know all of cyclops background when it comes to fighting.

Cyclops BECAZUE HE'S MARVEL!~!1111 LOLz!!!!

Cyke till i see the new superman powerless again. He might be a good MA but he is used to his Superpowers and his fast Brain, without them he seems to be unable to fight better then your average MA.
His powerless appearances weren't that impressive.
Cyke on the other hand has a lot of training and is quite used to fight with his "weak" body and his slow reflexes.

Cyke, dismantles him.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman easily

Cyclops slight majority.

Originally posted by rotiart
superman hasan't been in a regular human body a single day in his life... He hasn't?

If you disagree. When was Clark in a regular human body with no powers fighting an opponent

Originally posted by rotiart
cyke. he's shown me he can take on 4-5 guys at once with just his hand to hand skills.

* it's actually 6... with his eyes closed... and traced back his steps to retrieve his eyeglasses...

Originally posted by rotiart
If you disagree. When was Clark in a regular human body with no powers fighting an opponent

he's had plenty of appearences when he lost his powers.

Originally posted by -Pr-
he's had plenty of appearences when he lost his powers.

mhmm

True, but even then his body was still biologically kryptonian. Assuming they both get human bodies for this fight, I would put Clark at a substantial disadvantage due to his personal unfamiliarity with the limitations of human physiology. Ex. I doubt he'll be prepared for the particular and excruciating agony that a swift kick to the testicles brings.

Originally posted by TheKahn
mhmm

True, but even then his body was still biologically kryptonian. Assuming they both get human bodies for this fight, I would put Clark at a substantial disadvantage due to his personal unfamiliarity with the limitations of human physiology. Ex. I doubt he'll be prepared for the particular and excruciating agony that a swift kick to the testicles brings.

he had human level strength, stamina and durability.

without his powers, clark is, for all intents and purposes, human.

Originally posted by -Pr-
he had human level strength, stamina and durability.

without his powers, clark is, for all intents and purposes, human.

No, without powers he is for all intents and purposes Kryptonian (albeit one living under a red sun).

Human bodies =\= Kryptonian bodies

Despite their superficial similarities, their biology is substantially different and forcing Clark to fight in an alien body would be a substantial disadvantage for him, imo.

Originally posted by TheKahn
No, without powers he is for all intents and purposes Kryptonian (albeit one living under a red sun).

Human bodies =\= Kryptonian bodies

Despite their superficial similarities, their biology is substantially different and forcing Clark to fight in an alien body would be a substantial disadvantage for him, imo.

Originally posted by TheKahn
No, without powers he is for all intents and purposes Kryptonian (albeit one living under a red sun).

Human bodies =\= Kryptonian bodies

Despite their superficial similarities, their biology is substantially different and forcing Clark to fight in an alien body would be a substantial disadvantage for him, imo.

you actually think the op meant to make him human rather than simply powerless?

they're actually more similar than you'd think. superman just has a couple of extra bits and pieces humans don't. without powers, he performs all the biological functions that a human does.

You can't prove that.
Besides what human stands in a certain suns gravity and experiences superpowers like superman. You have no idea what the results would be. At best you can say they are similar but not that they are equal... And even depowered there aren't great showings of supermans fighting skills

you can assume he is similar... But a regular human but he could be more or even less durable... Stronger or even weaker... Similar is not the same at all

Originally posted by Juntai
He hasn't? No, he's a kryptonian.

* erhmmmm... 1st post, anyone?

Originally posted by Juk3n
fighting abilities only, identical bodies..who takes it?

* maybe the threadstarter does not want to include the "unfamiliarity" of the bodies...

Originally posted by quanchi112
superman kicks cyke's @ss

.

Obviously, i wouldnt make a thread and intentionaly put superman in a body he's completley unfamiliar with..that would be retarded and anyone assuming so would be a retard.

But i'll clarify, Superman gets an identical body to cyclops and is comfortable and feels like it's his own body.

I tried to watch Daredevil again and it still sucked.

I blame you, juk3n.

Suck on that.

superman has better training/trainors.......even with his powerset, training is training, is it not?

Originally posted by Juk3n
Obviously, i wouldnt make a thread and intentionaly put superman in a body he's completley unfamiliar with..that would be retarded and anyone assuming so would be a retard.

But i'll clarify, Superman gets an identical body to cyclops and is comfortable and feels like it's his own body. nO matter how you slice it Superman is gonna feel hindered... His powers are his physical attributes... Str, speed agility flight and durability...

Scott has the same body.... Without the optic blasts....
Superman has a differen sized body without any of the physical attributes he is used to... And let's not forget that all this bs about how supermans kryptonian body is the same as a humans is bs. His mind as a jryptonians works faster to allow for the super attributes and mind,...

Superman has no idea what it would be like to be limited not just physically but mentally also....

Originally posted by rotiart
You can't prove that.
Besides what human stands in a certain suns gravity and experiences superpowers like superman. You have no idea what the results would be. At best you can say they are similar but not that they are equal... And even depowered there aren't great showings of supermans fighting skills

you can assume he is similar... But a regular human but he could be more or even less durable... Stronger or even weaker... Similar is not the same at all

yes i can, based on the dozens of issues showing him without powers fucntioning like a normal human.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Obviously, i wouldnt make a thread and intentionaly put superman in a body he's completley unfamiliar with..that would be retarded and anyone assuming so would be a retard.

But i'll clarify, Superman gets an identical body to cyclops and is comfortable and feels like it's his own body.

ah, ok.

Originally posted by rotiart
nO matter how you slice it Superman is gonna feel hindered... His powers are his physical attributes... Str, speed agility flight and durability...

Scott has the same body.... Without the optic blasts....
Superman has a differen sized body without any of the physical attributes he is used to... And let's not forget that all this bs about how supermans kryptonian body is the same as a humans is bs. His mind as a jryptonians works faster to allow for the super attributes and mind,...

Superman has no idea what it would be like to be limited not just physically but mentally also....

yes he does. when he was superman blue, he was powerless clark kent all the time. before he married lois he was powerless for a long time.

* so who's a$$ would be kicked then? i think this is a hard theme for PR since both are his fave characters...

Originally posted by rotiart
nO matter how you slice it Superman is gonna feel hindered... His powers are his physical attributes... Str, speed agility flight and durability...

Scott has the same body.... Without the optic blasts....
Superman has a differen sized body without any of the physical attributes he is used to... And let's not forget that all this bs about how supermans kryptonian body is the same as a humans is bs. His mind as a jryptonians works faster to allow for the super attributes and mind,...

Superman has no idea what it would be like to be limited not just physically but mentally also.... \

You're reading to much into this. Heres the short version. There should be no argument after this.. are you ready?

It's my thread
It's my/forum rules
I say Superman is completely comfortable in this new body, his mind is totally at ease, he feels better than ever infact. He hasnt got his powers, but he's got the same brain/skills learned and physically he's in an exact replica of Cyke's body. So there is no disadvantage there. It's a skill battle, thats all it is.

Easy as pie to follow, only someone with some sort of mental ..blah blah

Not that im saying you're a mentalist or anything.

Well maybe just a little, afterall you are the ONLY one in this thread who see's an issue that isnt there.

Cyke ftw

http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/ma6a.jpg
http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/ma6b.jpg
http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/ma6c.jpg
http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/ma6d.jpg
http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/ma6e.jpg
http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/ma6g.jpg
http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/ma6i.jpg
http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/ma6k.jpg
http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/ma6m.jpg

Originally posted by -Pr-
yes i can, based on the dozens of issues showing him without powers fucntioning like a normal human.



ah, ok.



yes he does. when he was superman blue, he was powerless clark kent all the time. before he married lois he was powerless for a long time. Also in 52, he was powerless for a whole year.
Also he traded bodies with Batman before.
Supes has been without power many times in his career and did just fine.

Cyclops may have defeated a few random street thugs there who apparently had no idea how to fight. See the guy trying to pull the piece? He runs over and falls on his own homey by himself and skids his face across the ground. Had that guy been halfway competent Cyke would have had more shiny in his mouth than Paul Wall.

Clark put it to Lex, who is trained in multiple martial arts by some of the best trainers a person can buy. Lex held his own against amazon warriors in hand to hand before. Have some better examples?

Originally posted by Juntai
Cyclops may have defeated a few random street thugs there who apparently had no idea how to fight. See the guy trying to pull the piece? He runs over and falls on his own homey by himself and skids his face across the ground. Had that guy been halfway competent Cyce would have had more shiny in his mouth than Paul Wall.

Clark put it to Lex, who is trained in multiple martial arts by some of the best trainers a person can buy. Lex held his own against amazon warriors in hand to hand before. Have some better examples?

Beating 6 grown men with his eyes closed isn't good enough for you? If you have scans of Superman doing something more impressive, please post them.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Ok. Please post the scans of the powerless fights you listed above. The ones in which he can depend on his super-speed/strength/durability are not relevant in my mind. Its not that I doubt your veracity, I just want to see and judge them for myself with interpretation and context being what they are. They're still entirely relevant when it's hand to hand prowess we're determining. Those are other times he's exhibited impressive martial arts skills, powers or not.

Originally posted by Juntai
They're still entirely relevant when it's hand to hand prowess we're determining. Those are other times he's exhibited impressive martial arts skills, powers or not.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. To me learning how to fight when you strength is measured is the hundreds of tons and your durability is high enough to withstand ground zero of a nuclear detonation, is quite different than learning how to fight effectively within the limits of a human body.

Originally posted by TheKahn
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. To me learning how to fight when you strength is measured is the hundreds of tons and your durability is high enough to withstand ground zero of a nuclear detonation, is quite different than learning how to fight effectively within the limits of a human body. Fair enough, but his foes in these cases are not only his rival in those categories, but in the instances, he specifically showed impressive striking, grapllng, countering and pressure point attacks against the opponents showing clear martial skill.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Ok. Please post the scans of the powerless fights you listed above. The ones in which he can depend on his super-speed/strength/durability are not relevant in my mind.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2995/766533451144151hwsupers.jpg




Durability?

Howsa about taking shots from a gunslinger Jonah Hex with Kryptonite bullets?


http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3168/supermancomic.jpg



Bats infected with Krypto..


http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/24823/767043-1_super.jpg




Let's see the scans of Cyclops taking bullets to the body.






Yeah we know, but CIKES CLOPS WINZ NOMADDER WAHT!!!!!!

lol, Superman deflected bullets with a garbage can lid?!? Also, Superman has always struck me as a slightly skilled brawler. In the majority of his fights hes slugging it out with whoever hes fighting. Cyke trains in the danger room with some pretty good h2h fighters. It just makes sense that he'd have to given his smaller powerset.

Originally posted by redhotrash
In the majority of his fights hes slugging it out with whoever hes fighting. Cyke trains in the danger room with some pretty good h2h fighters....

The Justice League ALSO have a training facility.

Again how do you stop bullets with a trash can lid? Kind of calls the writing into question. And what pressure points are in the sternum?

The problem with Cyclops is that while we know he's a capable fighter, he just doesn't have the same number of on panel feats that Superman does. Yes, he took on six guys with his eyes closed, but they were just thugs. Yes, he was stated to have been Colossus' teacher when it came to judo, but how often have we seen cyclops do it himself? He's even been said to be the martial arts instructor at the institute, but again, we don't have the amount of on panel feats that will add susbtantial weight to the pro cyclops argument.

on the other hand:

superman HAS h2h feats. he's trained with batman, and regularly spars with wonder woman. he's trained with the rest of the justice league in their own facilities. whether powered or powerless, he has shown a definite amount of instances where he's used his hand to hand skills to devastating effect. sure, some were with his powers, but when the person he's fighting is in his strength and speed class, then it comes back down to skill.

superman just has the better feats, imo.

Indeed...Supes will always have the better feats.

Originally posted by Mindset
I tried to watch Daredevil again and it still sucked.

I blame you, juk3n.

Suck on that.

yeah? well i blame you for Elektra and for Blade the musi..er.. i mean Blade 3.

Suck that down.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/24823/767043-1_super.jpg



Superman nerve striking Batgod? I guess the writer left the country after the issue release?

he better have 2guns
gun_bandana
rifle

No, he was sent over to Marvel and given control of Hulk titles and the Ultimates.

Originally posted by Juk3n
\

You're reading to much into this. Heres the short version. There should be no argument after this.. are you ready?

It's my thread
It's my/forum rules
I say Superman is completely comfortable in this new body, his mind is totally at ease, he feels better than ever infact. He hasnt got his powers, but he's got the same brain/skills learned and physically he's in an exact replica of Cyke's body. So there is no disadvantage there. It's a skill battle, thats all it is.

Easy as pie to follow, only someone with some sort of mental ..blah blah

Not that im saying you're a mentalist or anything.

Well maybe just a little, afterall you are the ONLY one in this thread who see's an issue that isnt there. Wow. You just short of called me a retard. F off.

Originally posted by rotiart
Wow. You just short of called me a retard. F off.

I did no such thing, you gave me the impression you were a bit slow by having me explain the same - easy to grasp point - 3 times. The point that everyone got except you, what does the evidence say? Either you were intentionally being difficult, or..?? You genuinely needed me walk you through the proposed battle. Maybe next time you just respond to a thread properly instead of creating issues that don't exist.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Obviously, i wouldnt make a thread and intentionaly put superman in a body he's completley unfamiliar with..that would be retarded and anyone assuming so would be a retard.



you say you did no such thing as to calling people retards.... but here you start attacking people and calling them retards if they don't agree with you.

"similar" and "same" are two different words..
superman can be similar to a human... but he is not the same.

superman has advanced humanoid physiology...
he is incredibly smart
can see farther
has superhuman reaction times
his biology itself is different..

for all we know a kryptonian under a red sun could be stronger. faster. smarter... than a baseline human. but it would be virtually impossible to prove that a kryptonian under a red sun is the same as a baseline human under a red sun...

but if what you want to say is superman under the effects of red sunlight... vs scott with his mutant ability deactivated... you'd probably have the thread you want...

and stop going to calling other people retards... slow... etc..

Originally posted by Juntai
No, he was sent over to Marvel and given control of Hulk titles and the Ultimates.

Ah, of course... only Loeb could've done something like that.

Originally posted by namorsubby
superman has a death ray in his eyes too......and much, much more.


still, based on his training/trainers, it wouldn't make sense for cyke to be superior.

So the gap of power between Cyclops human hands and his ultra eyes is comparable to the gap between Superman's hands and his heat vision?

Originally posted by Juk3n
yeah? well i blame you for Elektra and for Blade the musi..er.. i mean Blade 3.

Suck that down.



yeah, blade 3 sucked.

Originally posted by rotiart
you say you did no such thing as to calling people retards.... but here you start attacking people and calling them retards if they don't agree with you.

"similar" and "same" are two different words..
superman can be similar to a human... but he is not the same.

superman has advanced humanoid physiology...
he is incredibly smart
can see farther
has superhuman reaction times
his biology itself is different..

for all we know a kryptonian under a red sun could be stronger. faster. smarter... than a baseline human. but it would be virtually impossible to prove that a kryptonian under a red sun is the same as a baseline human under a red sun...

but if what you want to say is superman under the effects of red sunlight... vs scott with his mutant ability deactivated... you'd probably have the thread you want...

and stop going to calling other people retards... slow... etc..

that would be true, except for the fact that there are dozens of appearences of non-powered kryptonians (including superman).

Cyclops has trained everyday since he was a teenager and Clark trains two months with Bats and suddenly he's better?

Originally posted by Bentley
Cyclops has trained everyday since he was a teenager and Clark trains two months with Bats and suddenly he's better?

if cyclops spent every day of his life training in h2h combat, he'd be a lot more well respected than he is atm both in comics and in the fandom.

tbh, i don't think he spent as much time training in h2h as he did in the use of his powers and his own physical fitness (though yes, MA can be a part of that).

To be fair his phychic abilities are impressive for a non-psychic.

Originally posted by Bentley
To be fair his phychic abilities are impressive for a non-psychic.

its like he said, he dated one of the world's top telepaths for about a decade, and managed to keep things from her. his own father figure (probably the best out and out tp in marvel) trained all the x-men in counter-tp techniques (which means cyke would have had the most training), and of course he's now dating emma frost lol...

Eh, Colossus mentioned that he spent at least 5 hours in the danger room almost every day. It has been mentioned on several occasions how often the x-men train and practice their powers/tactics/etc. Naturally this doesn't mean that Cyke works on martial arts and such every day, but at least a good couple of times a week.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Eh, Colossus mentioned that he spent at least 5 hours in the danger room almost every day. It has been mentioned on several occasions how often the x-men train and practice their powers/tactics/etc. Naturally this doesn't mean that Cyke works on martial arts and such every day, but at least a good couple of times a week.

aye.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Eh, Colossus mentioned that he spent at least 5 hours in the danger room almost every day.

Colossus is such a slacker

Originally posted by -Pr-


yeah, blade 3 sucked.



that would be true, except for the fact that there are dozens of appearences of non-powered kryptonians (including superman).

which kryptonians exhibited absolutely no superpowers after being exposed to yellow sun light?

Originally posted by rotiart
which kryptonians exhibited absolutely no superpowers after being exposed to yellow sun light?

you mean red sunlight?

Superman easily

no. i mean yellow. you said there are plenty of instances of kryptonians without superpowers... and since their superpower is derived from yellow sunlight... for your comment to be true... you would have to show me that not all kryptonians get superpowers from yellow sunlight.

Originally posted by rotiart
no. i mean yellow. you said there are plenty of instances of kryptonians without superpowers... and since their superpower is derived from yellow sunlight... for your comment to be true... you would have to show me that not all kryptonians get superpowers from yellow sunlight.

what?

did you even read my post?

without yellow sunlight, kryptonians have no powers. when they're under a red sun, they lose all their powers and become comparable to humans.

cyclops still has powers when he is not exposed to yellow sunlight.. he just is depowered...

depowered is not equal to having no super powers.

and i agree that they are comparable... but there is no way to verify that they are the same.

Originally posted by rotiart
cyclops still has powers when he is not exposed to yellow sunlight.. he just is depowered...

depowered is not equal to having no super powers.

and i agree that they are comparable... but there is no way to verify that they are the same.

he's not depowered. he can still absorb energy from other sources.

so you're saying depowered is just at a lower level of power rather than none?

they're about the same in strength/durability and speed.

Originally posted by -Pr-
he's not depowered. he can still absorb energy from other sources.

so you're saying depowered is just at a lower level of power rather than none?

they're about the same in strength/durability and speed.

a human exposed to sunlight.. or not... has no chance of exhibiting super powers...

cyclops can run out of juice... or be prevented from access to his powers.. just like a kryptonian...

hence mutants and kryptonians can be depowered...
a regular human can not... because they are unpowered...

Originally posted by rotiart
a human exposed to sunlight.. or not... has no chance of exhibiting super powers...

cyclops can run out of juice... or be prevented from access to his powers.. just like a kryptonian...

hence mutants and kryptonians can be depowered...
a regular human can not... because they are unpowered...

and?

to cut off cyclops you have to cut off all energy sources. he's not like superman.

a depowered kryptonian has no powers, though.

what... cyclops gets his power from solar energy...
since when did this change.

Originally posted by rotiart
what... cyclops gets his power from solar energy...
since when did this change.

he absorbs all types of ambient energy. sunlight is his primary source, and it only takes a small bit of energy to open the dimensional portals in his eyes.

okay but back to point.

does anyone have scans of a depowered superman fighting?
just to get away from the argument... because most scans are gonna show a "powered" or "weakened" superman fighting.

Originally posted by rotiart
okay but back to point.

does anyone have scans of a depowered superman fighting?
just to get away from the argument... because most scans are gonna show a "powered" or "weakened" superman fighting.

when he fought superboy prime at the end of infinite crisis he had no powers. same as when he fought lex at the end of up, up and away. those scans of him with those gangmembers earlier were him with no powers too.

Originally posted by rotiart
which jla are you talking about... in jla #23 the ones i have.. he wasn't depowered in the issues i have? i don't think i have all of those other issues. do you have scans?

i think he means the starro issue.

Originally posted by -Pr-
when he fought superboy prime at the end of infinite crisis he had no powers. same as when he fought lex at the end of up, up and away. those scans of him with those gangmembers earlier were him with no powers too.

the superboy prime is a good argument..
so is the lex one...

but the gang members isn't as good... the members were reluctant to fight him... they knew he was superman and were obviously afraid to fight him... hence one of the members saying... he's just one man... even teh person with the gun was reluctant to shoot... saying that he should still try...
and the bullet scan isn't a good one too, because superman has shown before that exposure to kryptonite doesn't always have the same affect to him... sometimes he resits it back... other times.. he almost dies..

when cyclops fought the thugs, they didn't know he was a mutant... he was just another man... there was no restraint with them.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i think he means the starro issue.

not sure which one that is sorry.

Originally posted by rotiart
the superboy prime is a good argument..
so is the lex one...

but the gang members isn't as good... the members were reluctant to fight him... they knew he was superman and were obviously afraid to fight him... hence one of the members saying... he's just one man... even teh person with the gun was reluctant to shoot... saying that he should still try...
and the bullet scan isn't a good one too, because superman has shown before that exposure to kryptonite doesn't always have the same affect to him... sometimes he resits it back... other times.. he almost dies..

when cyclops fought the thugs, they didn't know he was a mutant... he was just another man... there was no restraint with them.

superman has beaten people with more skills than those thugs had, though.

Originally posted by rotiart
not sure which one that is sorry.

jla v3 #23. here's the cover:

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/jla/23-1.jpg

superman is in a dream... and in it... states that his powers are fading in issue 22... wonder woman etc.. have all their powers already gone.. but superman's were still fading at the end of the issue. in the next issue..in it he gets overpowered... supposedly all his strength is gone..but this is in the dreamworld... not the real world.
until the dreamer.. michael.. dreams that superman is stronger than his enemy.. and suddenly superman is...

thank you for the reference.

Originally posted by rotiart
superman is in a dream... and in it... states that his powers are fading in issue 22... wonder woman etc.. have all their powers already gone.. but superman's were still fading at the end of the issue. in the next issue..in it he gets overpowered... supposedly all his strength is gone..but this is in the dreamworld... not the real world.
until the dreamer.. michael.. dreams that superman is stronger than his enemy.. and suddenly superman is...

thank you for the reference.

sure, it isn't his best showing.

the fact remains that he still has decent h2h feats without powers.

and even with powers, when the other people ARE physically similar to him, he's still done well and shown skill.

Originally posted by -Pr-
sure, it isn't his best showing.

the fact remains that he still has decent h2h feats without powers.

and even with powers, when the other people ARE physically similar to him, he's still done well and shown skill.

im simply trying to make the argument that some people are posting that superman stomps...

and i'm simply saying it isn't clear cut.

Originally posted by rotiart
im simply trying to make the argument that some people are posting that superman stomps...

and i'm simply saying it isn't clear cut.

it's not a stomp, and it's not clear cut at all.

i still believe superman is the superior fighter, though. scott is technically gifted, but superman is more fluid, more adaptable than scott is because he's learned from a wider range of people.

and he does have more showings of skill, sadly, because they rarely show cyclops using h2h at all.

well at this point.. i'm still going with cyclops... 6/10
there haven't been any scans yet of superman as a baseline human.. :P

Originally posted by rotiart
well at this point.. i'm still going with cyclops... 6/10
there haven't been any scans yet of superman as a baseline human.. :P



and that's not an unreasonable opinion.

i honestly wish i could say with certainty that cyke was superior, but he just lacks the feats...

Originally posted by -Pr-


and that's not an unreasonable opinion.

i honestly wish i could say with certainty that cyke was superior, but he just lacks the feats...

oh i'm not disagreeing with that.. feats do tend to make most arguments.. my current one is superman even as a baseline kryptonian could be slightly.. stronger/faster/ and we would never know. because its such a slight edge.. it can't be drawn. :P

i'm just saying that its hard to argue supermans feats are baseline human... when there's no way to prove alien=human. although we can argue that they are similar...

like superman gets hit with kryptonite bullets and doesn't die... wtf! but theres a small rock of kryptonite 6 feet in front of him and he is shriveled up on the ground! crazy!

Originally posted by rotiart
oh i'm not disagreeing with that.. feats do tend to make most arguments.. my current one is superman even as a baseline kryptonian could be slightly.. stronger/faster/ and we would never know. because its such a slight edge.. it can't be drawn. :P

i'm just saying that its hard to argue supermans feats are baseline human... when there's no way to prove alien=human. although we can argue that they are similar...

like superman gets hit with kryptonite bullets and doesn't die... wtf! but theres a small rock of kryptonite 6 feet in front of him and he is shriveled up on the ground! crazy!

baseline kryptonians have always been portrayed as being about equal to humans, though. every time superman has lost his powers, he's been like an average person. he's been bloodied by punches etc.

he doesnt shrivel up. that's smallville. so shame on you!

I just love the look on superman's face.
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Superman%20Ownage/JLA2pg19-1.jpg
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Superman%20Ownage/JLA2pg20.jpg

Originally posted by rotiart
I just love the look on superman's face.
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Superman%20Ownage/JLA2pg19-1.jpg
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Superman%20Ownage/JLA2pg20.jpg

didn't work for me...

edit: now they work. ah, lol...