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Who wins?

Leonardo from the Ninja Turtles, by the way.

Silver Samuria

SS

Really? Dang I thought this would be a better matchup.

Leonardo. Guy is crazy fast and strong. He better watch out for SS sword for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Leonardo. Guy is crazy fast and strong. He better watch out for SS sword for obvious reasons.
He not stronger or faster then silver samurai.

he also not as experience or skill full.

He pretty much is. Eastman's Leo can hang with mutants that can destroy tanks and such.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
He pretty much is. Eastman's Leo can hang with mutants that can destroy tanks and such.
lets see some evidence. I own many of the comics and they hardly display things on the level of silver samurai especially old school ones.

All the turtles have good durability as well. I remember one of them falling out of a building and being merely bruised. Not even KO'd.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
He not stronger or faster then silver samurai.

he also not as experience or skill full. Not fully skilled!? Hasn't that comic been around since '84?

Originally posted by Blight
Not fully skilled!? Hasn't that comic been around since '84?
were did I say he not fully skilled?

also what?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
All the turtles have good durability as well. I remember one of them falling out of a building and being merely bruised. Not even KO'd.
Durability wont do him any good vs and opponent that cuts throwing anything pretty much with ease.

That's why I said he better watch out for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
That's why I said he better watch out for obvious reasons.
you also said he faster and stronger dispite the fact leo best speed feats dont touch deflecting individual bullets, or shown the punching power destructive force of silver samurai. Nor has he shown to know such skills.


Most of the comic the old ones they barly fought above thugs with knifes.

That's because he is.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
That's because he is.
prove it saying something over and over does not make it so.


I own many ninja turtle comics and they are very overrated when in comparision to marvel hero's. There common foes are thugs with knifes........let me quess your basing your opinion off a show.....

Image's Turtles were also formidable. I'll try and create a respect thread for them. Maybe in December.

leonardo can't block that sword, and that's pretty much his downfall.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
leonardo can't block that sword, and that's pretty much his downfall.

I was just going to say that

YOriginally posted by Battlehammer
were did I say he not fully skilled?

also what?

You said Not Skill full. I took it to mean not fully skilled... unfortunately I forgot about your bad grammar. I think you meant Skillful.

Originally posted by Blight
Y

You said Not Skill full. I took it to mean not fully skilled... unfortunately I forgot about your bad grammar. I think you meant Skillful.
sorry thats what I ment.


I ment he not as skilled as SIlver Samurai but he deff skilled.

Leo wins out of coolness.

The TMNT in the comics are not low level crooks, they have done many of the exact same feats that other Marvel heroes have done, such as the fabled "bullet/laser" dodging. I'm surprised that people have many of their comics say that because they do that stuff early on. The problem is like Street Fighter, they have tons of media and comics is only a brief stroke of their showings. They still have a long canonical story and at Leonardo's peak he was taking out rat king, Utrom Shredder, and even Splinter at one point, he also beat Karai. He is heavily skilled and this would make a good match. Especially without superpowers, the problem isn't that they're overrated, quite the opposite actually. If someone on this forum isn't Marvel or DC they all of the sudden are weak. I remember arguing SF like that for ages before people understood.

Yep. And Cyborg Don owns ALL.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The TMNT in the comics are not low level crooks, they have done many of the exact same feats that other Marvel heroes have done, such as the fabled "bullet/laser" dodging. I'm surprised that people have many of their comics say that because they do that stuff early on. The problem is like Street Fighter, they have tons of media and comics is only a brief stroke of their showings. They still have a long canonical story and at Leonardo's peak he was taking out rat king, Utrom Shredder, and even Splinter at one point, he also beat Karai. He is heavily skilled and this would make a good match. Especially without superpowers, the problem isn't that they're overrated, quite the opposite actually. If someone on this forum isn't Marvel or DC they all of the sudden are weak. I remember arguing SF like that for ages before people understood.
See I like to see evidence of this. I own plenty of there comics and this is far from the cases. There newer ones tend to have far better showings then the old ones. Hell many of the old ones I do have simply have them fighting crooks with knifes or a few robots.

I love to see evidence for them. A a lot of people say similar, but never get around to proving it. Seems more like forum myth that they have these great feats, becuase from what I have seen from reading there comics thats hardly the case.

hell in the old ones mikey not even a fully develope character, not even sure he had a name for most of volume one.

The fact that Mikey was or wasn't a fully developed character doesn't mean they didn't have feats. Everyone knows Leo and Raph are the bigger characters in the story. But I'll be happy to find your scans. I'm at work so give me time. The comics *are* hard to come by and are very expensive. I do agree that the later series has better showings for them as they're more experienced and flushed out. Which is why I said comics only is a great match. It's like comic SF, many characters who are on average much stronger in their universe are weaker in most showings. Canonically Leonardo is definitely capable.

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/one/pg04.htm

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/one/pg05.htm

They were being shot at in the very first fight in the very first volume of the very first comic.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The fact that Mikey was or wasn't a fully developed character doesn't mean they didn't have feats. Everyone knows Leo and Raph are the bigger characters in the story. But I'll be happy to find your scans. I'm at work so give me time. The comics *are* hard to come by and are very expensive. I do agree that the later series has better showings for them as they're more experienced and flushed out. Which is why I said comics only is a great match. It's like comic SF, many characters who are on average much stronger in their universe are weaker in most showings. Canonically Leonardo is definitely capable.
that be great. I love for them to have some great feats I love the turtles I just have not seen any great ones from many of the issues ive read.

There currently a new run out if ur looking for new issues.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/one/pg04.htm

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/one/pg05.htm

They were being shot at in the very first fight in the very first volume of the very first comic.
I mean even that nothing, that be fairly low showing for DD, capt ect.

I think leo could def win a few.

silver sam is a jobber.

Originally posted by Starscream M

silver sam is a jobber.
You base this opinion on what? who has he jobbed too.........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
You base this opinion on what? who has he jobbed too......... he's never been a threat to logan.

he seems incompetent. he doesn't use the fancy powers much. he's very boring character.

Originally posted by Starscream M
he's never been a threat to logan.

he seems incompetent. he doesn't use the fancy powers much. he's very boring character.
......what? He given Logan a fight every single time they go at it........not sure were your getting your info.


based on what? I have a feeling youve never even read anything with him in it.........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I mean even that nothing, that be fairly low showing for DD, capt ect. My point is they've done many of the same thing, in fact many characters have that aren't Marvel or DC. They've fought many people on time, fought big guys, little guys, smart guys, dumb guys, and skilled guys. They are more consistent than a lot of characters now.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
......what? He given Logan a fight every single time they go at it........not sure were your getting your info.


based on what? I have a feeling youve never even read anything with him in it......... tbh, I've only read two of his appearances, one of them logan stabs him and takes him out and another where all he does is talk for the entire comic

he doesn't impress me

he's just a good sword fighter...nothing more. Leo has a good chance against him.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
My point is they've done many of the same thing, in fact many characters have that aren't Marvel or DC. They've fought many people on time, fought big guys, little guys, smart guys, dumb guys, and skilled guys. They are more consistent than a lot of characters now.
my point is there consistent shown at a level under capt, DD ect. There best feats are mid level feats for DD and capt. Thats my point. Silver Samurai best feat is deflect individual bullets, something I dont think Leo has come closes to touching.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I was just going to say that i'm surprised it was never mentioned yet....it's like a major aspect of a sword duel. *shrugs*

Originally posted by Battlehammer
my point is there consistent shown at a level under capt, DD ect. There best feats are mid level feats for DD and capt. Thats my point. Silver Samurai best feat is deflect individual bullets, something I dont think Leo has come closes to touching. They are about the same thing as what DD has done, with low level superhuman stats. The comics weren't around too long really, but in reality in canon they've done more impressive feats than a lot of the others anyways. First we wen't from nothing impressive and can't dodge or barely fight crooks, now they are mid level. So at least we are making progress. Allow me to search.

Leo has cut shots out of the air though, can I find it? We'll see.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They are about the same thing as what DD has done, with low level superhuman stats.

the scan you showed was nothing closes to what DD has shown.....come on man the scan you presented showed people firering at the turtles thats it.......

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

The comics weren't around too long really, but in reality in canon they've done more impressive feats than a lot of the others anyways. First we wen't from nothing impressive and can't dodge or barely fight crooks, now they are mid level. So at least we are making progress. Allow me to search.


You keep saying this I have yet to see it.

What you showed was not impressive. I neevr said then can barly fight crooks now your putting words in my mouth. I said they normally fight crooks and show nothing impressive which is true. Even the feat you showed was meh. I was beign quite generous in saying that was even a mid level feat. The best feat I have ever seen from them was one of mikey from the current run which re started up year or two ago.

keep searching I love for it to be true, that there as good, but I have yet to really see it. asside from there very few high showings which all came from there most recent run which I am not even sure is cannon to the rest of there comics.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Leo has cut shots out of the air though, can I find it? We'll see.

I find it hard to believe, but I hope you find it.

Of course they are canon, all of them go right into the storyline, now let's not take away from the argument. There are "guys firing"? What' the difference in them "dodging bullets" than when any of the other Street levelers do the exact same thing in any other showings? Honestly man, not to mention that *none* of these characters are fast enough to dodge a bullet after it's fired, only those with subsonic speeds, or someone like Spiderman with a long enough distance with his warning, the others can't dodge a bullet after it's fired to begin with. Bullets are jobbers in comics no different than mobs of people. You show DD taking on hordes of ninjas I can show you that, if you show DD or someone "dodging bullets" I can show you that. Lasers which move at light speed, I can show you that. We went from saying they weren't there or a myth to now watering them down. I'm not about to do this. All of the turtles are low level superhuman which DD isn't anyways, so in a forum fight he'd be less skilled and physically weaker as well, and less durable. Obviusly in the comics alone characters like Batman are going to have more feats, they have more comics, this was just a short run. Furthermore they all have high and low feats anyways.

Here is a scene of "laser dodging".

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/four/pg32.htm

The Utroms commenting the turtles are just too damned fast.
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/four/pg33.htm

Leonardo wins

SS would solo all four turtles.

They've fought worse things than SS, especially collectively.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They've fought worse things than SS, especially collectively.
Not in comics. TV yes, comic, no.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Here is a scene of "laser dodging".

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/four/pg32.htm

The Utroms commenting the turtles are just too damned fast.
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/four/pg33.htm
niether scan worked.


though I just realised there 2 years old lol.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Not in comics. TV yes, comic, no. Both.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Both.
not really. who has a single one of them defeated that was more formidable then SS?

There comic versions are not remotely as impressive as there TV selfs.

Silver Samurai takes this handily. Unless TV version and even then depends which incarnation, some of which would dominate silver samurai, others not so much. However in comics, Leo would get beat down. He inferior in almost every single way.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
not really. who has a single one of them defeated that was more formidable then SS?

There comic versions are not remotely as impressive as there TV selfs. We've been through this and I've posted things, it's going in circles. Haven't seen anything to the contrary that suggests he's above all of them, let alone collectively which they work with synergy.

Why was this old thing bumped anyways?

IIRC in the comics Leo was more impressive than in the first movie, Leo took on and beat Shredder one on one in the Mirage comics run yet Shredder was tooling all four turtles in the first movie and Splinter had to save the day.

All four Turtles have been flung back in time and fought Dinosaurs in the comics.

They have dodged blaster fire from Triceraton Commandos while fighting alongside the Utoms, Triceratons have Superhuman stats and Leo has taken them on hand to hand, in comics.

I'm not saying he would take a majority against SS given Leo's swords have been broken before and SS's sword will cut through anything but it seems Leo is getting seriously low balled here!

Originally posted by BigSid
IIRC in the comics Leo was more impressive than in the first movie, Leo took on and beat Shredder one on one in the Mirage comics run yet Shredder was tooling all four turtles in the first movie and Splinter had to save the day.

All four Turtles have been flung back in time and fought Dinosaurs in the comics.

They have dodged blaster fire from Triceraton Commandos while fighting alongside the Utoms, Triceratons have Superhuman stats and Leo has taken them on hand to hand, in comics.

I'm not saying he would take a majority against SS given Leo's swords have been broken before and SS's sword will cut through anything but it seems Leo is getting seriously low balled here! Good post. I like it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
We've been through this and I've posted things, it's going in circles.

No you posted two things. Niether of which was even a feat for a guy like punisher.





Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Haven't seen anything to the contrary that suggests he's above all of them,
I should have been clearlier. I was refferring to him beat any of them one on one, not combind.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Why was this old thing bumped anyways?
no idea.

Originally posted by BigSid
IIRC in the comics Leo was more impressive than in the first movie, Leo took on and beat Shredder one on one in the Mirage comics run yet Shredder was tooling all four turtles in the first movie and Splinter had to save the day.

All four Turtles have been flung back in time and fought Dinosaurs in the comics.

They have dodged blaster fire from Triceraton Commandos while fighting alongside the Utoms, Triceratons have Superhuman stats and Leo has taken them on hand to hand, in comics.

I'm not saying he would take a majority against SS given Leo's swords have been broken before and SS's sword will cut through anything but it seems Leo is getting seriously low balled here!
Really post issue numbers with actauly feats. And I gladly look them up. Becuase what your stating in the context of what they did is not nearly as impressive as your making it. And I have read more them my fair share of ninja turtle comics.

Can i beat an *******, and say Leo turns into his dragon form, and rip SS in two.

Originally posted by SquallX
Can i beat an *******, and say Leo turns into his dragon form, and rip SS in two.
TV version lol.


Miky had crazy super speed in that arc as well. Dam guy was quick silver but a ninja.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Really post issue numbers with actauly feats. And I gladly look them up. Becuase what your stating in the context of what they did is not nearly as impressive as your making it. And I have read more them my fair share of ninja turtle comics.

I would say you haven't read as much as you think you have because they were fighting Triceratons in TMNT Vol 1 issue 6 published by Mirage back in Feb 1986,

You can read the review of the issue, it's online


TMNT Vol 1 issue 6

In fact lots of issues are reviewed on that site.

That site has put all of their appearances throughout all their comic runs into a timeline, lots of issue reviews.

Like I said SS has a big advantage weapons and powers wise and I would back giving him the majority but it wouldn't be a stomp and to say they only fought street thugs with knives is simply not true.

Rat King, King Komodo, Lounge Lizard, White Rabbit, Shredder, the Triceratons etc they have quite a rogues gallery and all are above street thug.

Originally posted by BigSid
I would say you haven't read as much as you think you have because they were fighting Triceratons in TMNT Vol 1 issue 6 published by Mirage back in Feb 1986,

never denied they fought them, you just making it more impressive that it was. Out side perhaps superhuman strength those triceratons showed almost nothing.

Originally posted by BigSid

You can read the review of the issue, it's online


TMNT Vol 1 issue 6

In fact lots of issues are reviewed on that site.


I dont want reviews. I want you to stated feats and then provide the issue number. I read most all of there comics, most of which could be found online for a long time (though they recently were taken down)






Originally posted by BigSid
Rat King, King Komodo, Lounge Lizard, White Rabbit, Shredder, the Triceratons etc they have quite a rogues gallery and all are above street thug.
And yet someone like wolverine would destroy every single one of them and many with out much difficulty. And SS fights wolverine a number of times and put up quite the match.




I dont think you get what I am asking. Asking for you to provide feats. You know like "dodging" lasers then providing the issue number in which they did it ect. Stating a page full of reviews, is not evidence, it simply stating a page of useless reviews

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
never denied they fought them, you just making it more impressive that it was. Out side perhaps superhuman strength those triceratons showed almost nothing.



I dont want reviews. I want you to stated feats and then provide the issue number. I read most all of there comics, most of which could be found online for a long time (though they recently were taken down)







And yet someone like wolverine would destroy every single one of them and many with out much difficulty. And SS fights wolverine a number of times and put up quite the match.




I dont think you get what I am asking. Asking for you to provide feats. You know like "dodging" lasers then providing the issue number in which they did it ect. Stating a page full of reviews, is not evidence, it simply stating a page of useless reviews

I don't think you understand what I'm saying either, twice now I have given SS the majority, I just don't think it's a stomp.

What I'm questioning is the statement you made on page one when you said their common foes were street thugs with knives, that simply isn't true.

The reviews aren't useless as they have images from the issues in question in them and do a pretty good job of narrating the action, but if you consider them useless then that's fine.

You're writing Leo off as beneath SS's notice, I'm disagreeing with that and saying he would give SS a fight which I think ultimately SS would win, I said Leo was getting low balled, not that he would take the majority.

I'm not a fanboy, if anything I have a passing interest in TMNT and I don't favor one character over another, I'm probably as close to impartial as it gets, I will weigh a fight upon it's merits.

Actually the most naturally talented Turtle is Mikey, he just doesn't apply himself, the strongest is Raph, Leo is just the most focused and Disciplined.

I agree with you SS wins, I just don't agree it's as easy as you're making out.

Originally posted by BigSid
I don't think you understand what I'm saying either, twice now I have given SS the majority, I just don't think it's a stomp.

What I'm questioning is the statement you made on page one when you said their common foes were street thugs with knives, that simply isn't true.

The reviews aren't useless as they have images from the issues in question in them and do a pretty good job of narrating the action, but if you consider them useless then that's fine.


Actually the most naturally talented Turtle is Mikey, he just doesn't apply himself, the strongest is Raph, Leo is just the most focused and Disciplined.

I agree with you SS wins, I just don't agree it's as easy as you're making out.
First off the page one was done in 2009 two years ago.

Second they do face lots of street thugs, and foot ninjas (which might as well be hand ninjas) ect. they fight a lot of cannon fodder and constantly. though it could be argued that all comic characters do this.


Thats wrong. in fact that was something added to the TV show. That was never part of the comic, in fact mikey barly even had a personality through most of volume one and 2



SS feats are way better he would destroy leo. Leo would stand no chance, unless SS decided to not use his powers and even then he would handily beat leo.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
stop, there no need to write all this crap, that could be said in a 3 lines. First off the page one was done in 2009 two years ago.

Second they do face lots of street thugs, and foot ninjas (which might as well be hand ninjas) ect. they fight a lot of cannon fodder and constantly. though it could be argued that all comic characters do this.


Thats wrong. in fact that was something added to the TV show. That was never part of the comic, in fact mikey barly even had a personality through most of volume one and 2

SS feats are way better he would destroy leo. Leo would stand no chance, unless SS decided to not use his powers and even then he would handily beat leo.

OK, there really isn't a need to insult what I wrote as crap, this is an internet forum where people discuss comics, it's really not a place to get angry, although it seems some people do get quite angry about this stuff.

It's not something that was added to the TV show, it was stated in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles & Other Strangeness the role playing game based on Eastman and Lairds original comic and published in 1985 before the franchise took off, the TV show first aired (pilot) in 1987 so it pre dates it by two years.

The game was endorsed by Eastman and Laird and featured a lot of artwork from the comics run.

As you say heroes in comics go through a lot of fodder thugs and ninjas etc but what you said implied that was all Leo fought, I appreciate it was a post from 09 but the thread was bumped and this is the first time I'd seen it and you seemed to be continuing that trend with C master after the bump when you seemed to be saying they had never fought anyone on SS level in comics.

I like C master would disagree but it's all subjective and up for debate which is why we're all here.

Originally posted by BigSid
OK, there really isn't a need to insult what I wrote as crap, this is an internet forum where people discuss comics, it's really not a place to get angry, although it seems some people do get quite angry about this stuff.

I not angry nor trying to be insulting. In fact edited that part out, u must have quoted my post almost instantly.



Originally posted by BigSid
It's not something that was added to the TV show, it was stated in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles & Other Strangeness the role playing game based on Eastman and Lairds original comic and published in 1985 before the franchise took off, the TV show first aired (pilot) in 1987 so it pre dates it by two years.


yet was never mention single time in the comics, but was however mentioned in the tv show in which mikey became far bigger character then ever in the comics. Not sure how a game proves anything. Not sure you understand what evidence is. Nor was it created by the authors of the comics either. Is in no way shape or form evidence of anything. It be like me trying to use marvel role playing game to back up claims of silver samurai.




Originally posted by BigSid

The game was endorsed by Eastman and Laird and featured a lot of artwork from the comics run.

yes and? So does the marvel role playing game, does not make it accurate.


Originally posted by BigSid
As you say heroes in comics go through a lot of fodder thugs and ninjas etc but what you said implied that was all Leo fought, I appreciate it was a post from 09 but the thread was bumped and this is the first time I'd seen it and you seemed to be continuing that trend with C master after the bump when you seemed to be saying they had never fought anyone on SS level in comics.
Yes leo has never fought a single foe one on one that was SS caliber and won.

Originally posted by BigSid

I like C master would disagree but it's all subjective and up for debate which is why we're all here.
In my opinion it quite easy to see who more superior and it from reading both SS and the ninja turtles. SS done things like match wolverine, deflected individual gun firer, defeat a being with knolwedge and mastery of almost every single martial art on the planet plus enhanced abilities, beating down spiderman ect.

On a side note, I am glad someone else has seen that role playing game. I saw it at a local DnD store about 5 or 6 years ago and still pissed at myself for not buying it.

Also tried to argue it as evidence as I did try to argue SW role playing game as evidence on this very sight. It not evidence. Rules go quite against it. At first i did not understand why, but it because of how inaccurate such books are and the fact they are still very much a game. Were things need to be even out and characters need to have things tweeked to make the game more inviting.


Also if you own the game, could you tell me Mikey stats compared to ralph. I remember Mikey and leo having the best stats over all (not that it matter for a debate, just curious)

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I not angry nor trying to be insulting. In fact edited that part out, u must have quoted my post almost instantly.





yet was never mention single time in the comics, but was however mentioned in the tv show in which mikey became far bigger character then ever in the comics. Not sure how a game proves anything. Not sure you understand what evidence is. Nor was it created by the authors of the comics either. Is in no way shape or form evidence of anything. It be like me trying to use marvel role playing game to back up claims of silver samurai.





yes and? So does the marvel role playing game, does not make it accurate.



Yes leo has never fought a single foe one on one that was SS caliber and won.


In my opinion it quite easy to see who more superior and it from reading both SS and the ninja turtles. SS done things like match wolverine, deflected individual gun firer, defeat a being with knolwedge and mastery of almost every single martial art on the planet plus enhanced abilities, beating down spiderman ect.


Well I believe that the character profiles on the Turtles were written by Eastman and Laird although I would have to check my copy to be sure.

I used it because it actually includes an issue of the comic in it and the creators of the franchise had creative input on it, so it's admissible as evidence because of said input by the comics creators.

I was also using it as evidence that the theory about the Turtles differing abilities pre dates the TV show.

I'm glad you're not angry, you seem like a knowledgeable guy who is well read on his characters and I would agree that SS takes a majority but I think Leo can take a couple off him.

If you can post some stuff to change my opinion on that then I would be happy to look at it, I've only read a few of his appearances, the most impressive of which was when he took on Revanche, Psylocke, Beast and Gambit and held his own for a while, that alone was enough evidence for me to give him a majority but if you have better showings I could be swayed to agree a 10/10.

At the moment I would go SS 7 or 8/10 though.

Originally posted by BigSid
Well I believe that the character profiles on the Turtles were written by Eastman and Laird although I would have to check my copy to be sure.

I used it because it actually includes an issue of the comic in it and the creators of the franchise had creative input on it, so it's admissible as evidence because of said input by the comics creators.

I was also using it as evidence that the theory about the Turtles differing abilities pre dates the TV show.

I'm glad you're not angry, you seem like a knowledgeable guy who is well read on his characters and I would agree that SS takes a majority but I think Leo can take a couple off him.

If you can post some stuff to change my opinion on that then I would be happy to look at it, I've only read a few of his appearances, the most impressive of which was when he took on Revanche, Psylocke, Beast and Gambit and held his own for a while, that alone was enough evidence for me to give him a majority but if you have better showings I could be swayed to agree a 10/10.

At the moment I would go SS 7 or 8/10 though.
Please check, but I am pretty certain it was not written by them.


In fact the issue in it are completely separate of TMNT comic cannon. They even went as far as to add new characters and so forth. Making it very much not useable as evidence. Rules of the forum would never allow it as evidence anyways. Even hand books are only secondary sources.

Pre dates the show perhaps, but disagree about it being part of the comics. Also the show aired in 87, but when did it begin work on it?

thanks, you as well my friend. I just dont think leo stand a chance against SS when his weapons can't even wistand a single hit.

I see what I can dig up. He has a number of limited apearances, but I believe I can locate the scans around here. If not I can at the very least provide the issue and title as well as description of what occured, for you to look up if you wish to varify.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Please check, but I am pretty certain it was not written by them.


In fact the issue in it are completely separate of TMNT comic cannon. They even went as far as to add new characters and so forth. Making it very much not useable as evidence. Rules of the forum would never allow it as evidence anyways. Even hand books are only secondary sources.

Pre dates the show perhaps, but disagree about it being part of the comics. Also the show aired in 87, but when did it begin work on it?

thanks, you as well my friend. I just dont think leo stand a chance against SS when his weapons can't even wistand a single hit.

I see what I can dig up. He has a number of limited apearances, but I believe I can locate the scans around here. If not I can at the very least provide the issue and title as well as description of what occured, for you to look up if you wish to varify.

OK, I dug through the spare room and pulled out my copy.

All the artwork for the book was done by both Kevin and Peter and the issue inside was written by them too.

They had creative input on the characters and even the new ones for the game like the Nightmare Bears are credited to them but it looks like they only had input on the actual profiles not actually wrote them so I concede that.

You asked about their stat lines in the game, if you're familiar with Heroes unlimited and Ninjas and Superspies I will write them as normal, if you're unsure of any of the stat lines, I can clarify them for you.

Leo

IQ 16 ME 16 MA 17 PS 15 PP 20 PE 18 PB 11 SPD 11

Raph

IQ 12 ME 13 MA 11 PS 20 PP 18 PE 20 PB 5 SPD 15

Mikey

IQ 11 ME 14 MA 19 PS 16 PP 24 PE 17 PB 16 SPD 14

And for the hell of it

Donny

IQ 19 ME 15 MA 12 PS 13 PP 17 PE 13 PB 9 SPD 10

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No you posted two things. Niether of which was even a feat for a guy like punisher.






I should have been clearlier. I was refferring to him beat any of them one on one, not combind.


no idea. With all of his abilities he has an edge on certain versions. Not on all, and their feats are very good. The comics aren't too abundant there.

Plot device wins in a story are different than what happen on forums, like Spider-Man.

if you're not wolverine, silver samurai's sword goes through you (and your weapon) like a red hot knife through pre-liquefied butter

He's not immune to weapons himself though.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He's not immune to weapons himself though.
Actaully he has some immunity, because of armor








I doing a paper and delaing with pea in another thread so I respond to the rest later. Just wanted add that little bit.

Resistance, no immunity.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Resistance, no immunity.
thats what I ment. Leo on the other hand has zero resistance.

Originally posted by BigSid
OK, I dug through the spare room and pulled out my copy.

All the artwork for the book was done by both Kevin and Peter and the issue inside was written by them too.

They had creative input on the characters and even the new ones for the game like the Nightmare Bears are credited to them but it looks like they only had input on the actual profiles not actually wrote them so I concede that.

You asked about their stat lines in the game, if you're familiar with Heroes unlimited and Ninjas and Superspies I will write them as normal, if you're unsure of any of the stat lines, I can clarify them for you.

Leo

IQ 16 ME 16 MA 17 PS 15 PP 20 PE 18 PB 11 SPD 11

Raph

IQ 12 ME 13 MA 11 PS 20 PP 18 PE 20 PB 5 SPD 15

Mikey

IQ 11 ME 14 MA 19 PS 16 PP 24 PE 17 PB 16 SPD 14

And for the hell of it

Donny

IQ 19 ME 15 MA 12 PS 13 PP 17 PE 13 PB 9 SPD 10

really, when I looked it up the source I got said it was not cannon. However it did not say they dident right it, I simply assumed based off the fact it was consider not cannon. Interest, perhaps my source was missinformed and that the comics in play were cannon.

yea could you please tell me what the stats mean? I never played those games before.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
With all of his abilities he has an edge on certain versions. Not on all, and their feats are very good. The comics aren't too abundant there.

Plot device wins in a story are different than what happen on forums, like Spider-Man.
Certain version? He beat any comic version handily. There feats in comics are not all that impressive. There current stuff is there most impressive to date and I not even sure it cannon to the original stories. They still have comics coming out to this day. They have more apearances then SS, so playing that card does not work. He has less showing and yet still more impressive displays. Not to mention Thunder cats also have much less comic appearances then the ninja turtles, but again consistently higher showings to boot. Appearances or lack of does not favore the turtle in this debate.





I not sure what you are refferring to with the second part. Me and you were not even discussing fights or spiderman. If you could please elaberate on what you are refferring to, I could better answer.

Originally posted by SquallX
Can i beat an *******, and say Leo turns into his dragon form, and rip SS in two.

Leo has a dragon form? bad ass.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Certain version? He beat any comic version handily. There feats in comics are not all that impressive. There current stuff is there most impressive to date and I not even sure it cannon to the original stories. They still have comics coming out to this day. They have more apearances then SS, so playing that card does not work. He has less showing and yet still more impressive displays. Not to mention Thunder cats also have much less comic appearances then the ninja turtles, but again consistently higher showings to boot. Appearances or lack of does not favore the turtle in this debate.





I not sure what you are refferring to with the second part. Me and you were not even discussing fights or spiderman. If you could please elaberate on what you are refferring to, I could better answer. They've all been proved canon.

Comics they are just like the other streets. They are just fine.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
really, when I looked it up the source I got said it was not cannon. However it did not say they dident right it, I simply assumed based off the fact it was consider not cannon. Interest, perhaps my source was missinformed and that the comics in play were cannon.

yea could you please tell me what the stats mean? I never played those games before.

Well the story written by Kevin and Peter about the Turtles going to a fancy dress party at April's and ending up beating up some thugs and trashing their costumes so going as themselves may well not be canon.

However exerts from their origin is in their and that is canon, the characters created purely for the game are not canon but they do have the Eastman and Laird signature against each one of them.

OK back to the stats

IQ - Intelligence Quotient 16 or above is exceptional so Raph and Mikey are average intelligence, Leo is highly intelligent and Don is a genius!

ME - is Mental Endurance is shows how well a character stands up to mental attacks and Psionics and their potential to develop mental powers again 16 or above is exceptional Leo's focus is shown in this stat and he's resistant where as the others are on the high side of average.

MA- is Mental Affinity it shows charm and charisma, 16 or higher is exceptional, so Mikey with 19 is the most charming and charismatic with Leo being high there too which shows he's a good leader, Don and Raph are just average

PS= is Physical Strength 1-14 character can lift 30 times their PS 15-19 means the character can lift their PS times 40 20-23 can lift 60 times their PS 24 or higher can lift 100 times their PS so Leo would be able to lift 600lbs so he's approaching peak human according to the game, Mikey is 640lbs so slightly Stronger Raph, can lift 1200lbs so he is slightly superhuman in strength and Donny is in at 390lbs.

PP - Physical prowess this is the characters agility and dexterity 16 and above is exceptional and all are above 16 but Mikey owns with 24!

PE - Physical endurance, stamina and durability all apart from Donny are above average but Raph is the most durable and toughest according to his stat

PB - Physical beauty 16 and above being high, as you can expect they're turtles so only Mikey gets a high score and this is based on him being loveable and funny rather than good looking!

SPD - Speed this stat times 20 is the number of yards a character can run in one minute Raph is the fastest at 300 yards in a minute, then Mikey with 280 then Leo with 200 and finally Don at 200 yards in a minute.

Raph in the game was basically a brick, tough and strong and able to take more damage than the others Mikey was the hardest to hit and could block hits and strike better than the others and Leo was somewhere in between the two, the best of both worlds as it were.

When we used to play as kids NO ONE wanted to be Don! lol

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They've all been proved canon.

Comics they are just like the other streets. They are just fine.
Based on what?





No there not. There feats are less impressive then marvels or DC street levelers the higher level ones anyways

When were those stats created, they seem more like the time of Turtles in Time stats and not the most recent (Raph being the fastest, or Mike being the strongest.)

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Based on what?





No there not. There feats are less impressive then marvels or DC street levelers. Circular argument, we've been here.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They've all been proved canon.

Comics they are just like the other streets. They are just fine.

I thought Vol 3 by Image that Erik Larsen wrote was no longer considered Canon because Peter Laird had no desire to follow up on material in which he wasn't directly involved in?

Originally posted by BigSid
I thought Vol 3 by Image that Erik Larsen wrote was no longer considered Canon because Peter Laird had no desire to follow up on material in which he wasn't directly involved in? The last movie showed they all interacted in different dimensions but at the same time.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
When were those stats created, they seem more like the time of Turtles in Time stats and not the most recent (Raph being the fastest, or Mike being the strongest.)

1985 so it pre dates even Turtles in time stuff I believe, Dum Dum just asked for the stats from the original role playing game so I gave them.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The last movie showed they all interacted in different dimensions but at the same time.
which makes them all different characters. Yes there cannon to there universe, it does not make them interchangable feat wise.


Thats the same as saying AOA sabre-tooth is the same as 616 sabre-tooth.

Oh, gotcha. Man that's old.Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
which makes them all different characters. Yes there cannon to there universe, it does not make them interchangable feat wise.


Thats the same as saying AOA sabre-tooth is the same as 616 sabre-tooth. Right, which is why I say which version of course you pimp.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The last movie showed they all interacted in different dimensions but at the same time.

Ah Gotcha, no wonder it's so difficult to create a consistent timeline for them!

Originally posted by BigSid
I thought Vol 3 by Image that Erik Larsen wrote was no longer considered Canon because Peter Laird had no desire to follow up on material in which he wasn't directly involved in?
it not consider cannon with the rest. It cannon but everything is cannon. It just not cannon to one another.


Same as how ultimate wolverine and 616 wolverine exsist. Yes there both cannon, but not to eachother. There alternate realities to one another. it the saem concept with the turtles.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Oh, gotcha. Man that's old. Right, which is why I say which version of course you pimp.
lol

also erik immage run, isent that the one were mikey stops fightings, done becomes like the size of david the gnome ect?

Originally posted by BigSid
Ah Gotcha, no wonder it's so difficult to create a consistent timeline for them! And it's been around the long time.

Originally posted by BigSid
Well the story written by Kevin and Peter about the Turtles going to a fancy dress party at April's and ending up beating up some thugs and trashing their costumes so going as themselves may well not be canon.

However exerts from their origin is in their and that is canon, the characters created purely for the game are not canon but they do have the Eastman and Laird signature against each one of them.

OK back to the stats

IQ - Intelligence Quotient 16 or above is exceptional so Raph and Mikey are average intelligence, Leo is highly intelligent and Don is a genius!

ME - is Mental Endurance is shows how well a character stands up to mental attacks and Psionics and their potential to develop mental powers again 16 or above is exceptional Leo's focus is shown in this stat and he's resistant where as the others are on the high side of average.

MA- is Mental Affinity it shows charm and charisma, 16 or higher is exceptional, so Mikey with 19 is the most charming and charismatic with Leo being high there too which shows he's a good leader, Don and Raph are just average

PS= is Physical Strength 1-14 character can lift 30 times their PS 15-19 means the character can lift their PS times 40 20-23 can lift 60 times their PS 24 or higher can lift 100 times their PS so Leo would be able to lift 600lbs so he's approaching peak human according to the game, Mikey is 640lbs so slightly Stronger Raph, can lift 1200lbs so he is slightly superhuman in strength and Donny is in at 390lbs.

PP - Physical prowess this is the characters agility and dexterity 16 and above is exceptional and all are above 16 but Mikey owns with 24!

PE - Physical endurance, stamina and durability all apart from Donny are above average but Raph is the most durable and toughest according to his stat

PB - Physical beauty 16 and above being high, as you can expect they're turtles so only Mikey gets a high score and this is based on him being loveable and funny rather than good looking!

SPD - Speed this stat times 20 is the number of yards a character can run in one minute Raph is the fastest at 300 yards in a minute, then Mikey with 280 then Leo with 200 and finally Don at 200 yards in a minute.

Raph in the game was basically a brick, tough and strong and able to take more damage than the others Mikey was the hardest to hit and could block hits and strike better than the others and Leo was somewhere in between the two, the best of both worlds as it were.

When we used to play as kids NO ONE wanted to be Don! lol
thanks.


When I first read the ninja turtles comics I was so disapointed at first, becuase mikey was barly a character. He was my favorite from the tv show. I then found out that TV kinda pushed him into the incon he was. That in the earliest volume of the turtles he was not really developed. Remember when I first found out he was kinda the worst in the comics, I was heart broken. Though glad to see he got some love in the game.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
also erik immage run, isent that the one were mikey stops fightings, done becomes like the size of david the gnome ect?

I think so, my biggest memories of that run are Donny becoming a cyborg and Raph becoming the new Shredder.

Originally posted by BigSid
I think so, my biggest memories of that run are Donny becoming a cyborg and Raph becoming the new Shredder.
yea that stuff should never be made cannon. It was utter nonsense. Mikey became a comic writer and completely stopped fighting. Donny became the size of david the gnome and then used some crazy robot thing. only guy that seemed to stay the same or close to it was leo

Originally posted by BigSid
I think so, my biggest memories of that run are Donny becoming a cyborg and Raph becoming the new Shredder.

Dark Horse TMNT was the best, IMO.

with samurai's armor I dont see Leonardo winning