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No shield just pure h2h. The fight takes place in a N.Y.C. park. Who wins?

I say Cap beats him like a step child 8/10.

if batman was able to defeat him and lady shiva did it and lady shiva is what bat girl class? then captain america will do it even better, karate kid in my personal opinion is too overrated just because at the time he was able to fight superman people seem to think he is some martial arts god or something , the guy lost to batman and lady shiva he is nothing special and he will go down against a great fighter and tactician like cap

i always saw karate kid as the dc version of shang chi thats all

Val, of course.

Originally posted by valtiz
if batman was able to defeat him and lady shiva did it and lady shiva is what bat girl class? then captain america will do it even better, karate kid in my personal opinion is too overrated just because at the time he was able to fight superman people seem to think he is some martial arts god or something , the guy lost to batman and lady shiva he is nothing special and he will go down against a great fighter and tactician like cap

Batman didn't defeat him.

Karate kid?
one who actually hurt Superboy?
He wins 10/10

I think he's talking about when KK didn't have his memory and they did that sparring session when it had KK listed as a higher level fighter than him and he wanted to beat him.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think he's talking about when KK didn't have his memory and they did that sparring session when it had KK listed as a higher level fighter than him and he wanted to beat him.

Val still had the upper hand big time. He even managed to steal Bruce's utility belt.

ok WTF?! I dont know much about kk but ive read threads where everyone used to say that kk vs wolverine is spite and that bloodlusted spidey doesnt stand a CHANCE against him and that kk would be a good challenge for the hulk. Now 90% say that Cap can kick his ass. So i repeat my question - WTF?!

Yea... KMC changes, quite a bit.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Val still had the upper hand big time. He even managed to steal Bruce's utility belt. The fight where he fell out and said, "You cheated" when he assumed he gave Bruce a hernia?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Batman didn't defeat him.

he fought batman and batman got the better of him and the upper hand in my book that means he got surved

Originally posted by SamZED
ok WTF?! I dont know much about kk but ive read threads where everyone used to say that kk vs wolverine is spite and that bloodlusted spidey doesnt stand a CHANCE against him and that kk would be a good challenge for the hulk. Now 90% say that Cap can kick his ass. So i repeat my question - WTF?!

well the case with karate kid my friend is that at some points in the past he was able to fight superman and superboy due to his skills it was a total PIS just like you see sometimes shang chi and clack panther being able to punk the thing and namor , truth is that karate kid is somewhere at batman class and thats the truth but people will always say "but he fought superman"... and captain america beat up thor so? ever heard of PIS?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea... KMC changes, quite a bit.

The fight where he fell out and said, "You cheated" when he assumed he gave Bruce a hernia?

yes.

Originally posted by valtiz
he fought batman and batman got the better of him and the upper hand in my book that means he got surved

No, he didn't. Val just woke up from a COMA and didn't have his memory, yet, he still outfought the Batgod.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
No, he didn't. Val just woke up from a COMA and didn't have his memory, yet, he still outfought the Batgod.

i really dont recall him beating batman i recall them fighting they were even and then batman said something like "and this is gotham streets fighting style" and punched him and got the upper hand as i remember

http://creative.myspace.com/groups/_cc/radiatorblues/ct50/CTDWN_50-12.jpg

If you think this is Bats getting the "upper hand", you're crazy.

Val would have won, if it weren't for:

A: Black Lightning (most important)
B: Memory loss
C: Weak from Coma

here is a scan of batman fighting karate kid and they are even

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/RyN9Cm-8iiI/AAAAAAAABSM/v4RhvUszLuo/s320/valArmorrVsBatman.GIF

and this is batmanm getting the upper hand on him

http://i29.tinypic.com/654z9w.jpg

and i remember there was another fight where batman got the upper hand when karate kid was wearing white clothes

Originally posted by valtiz
here is a scan of batman fighting karate kid and they are even

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/RyN9Cm-8iiI/AAAAAAAABSM/v4RhvUszLuo/s320/valArmorrVsBatman.GIF

and this is batmanm getting the upper hand on him

http://i29.tinypic.com/654z9w.jpg

and i remember there was another fight where batman got the upper hand when karate kid was wearing white clothes

Post the whole thing:

http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_daily/850851.html

Val is getting the upperhand on him, until Lightning saves him.

What's funny is Bruce's reaction when he sees that Val is at a level 15, while he is at a level 12. Val is obviously more skilled than Batman and has the feats to prove it.

BTW, Val's mind wasn't into it. He thought he was TRIDENT. Don't leave that out.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Post the whole thing:

http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_daily/850851.html

Val is getting the upperhand on him, until Lightning saves him.

What's funny is Bruce's reaction when he sees that Val is at a level 15, while he is at a level 12. Val is obviously more skilled than Batman and has the feats to prove it.

so you posted the whole thing and? karate kid didnt get a lick on batman he just was back shoted by black lighting, facts are this isnt a batman vs karate kid thread but my entire point is that karate kid is too overated even if he is a little bit better fighter then batman he is still somewhere in batman calss just notice how they fight , but people insist that he can match superboy and superman give me a break its just like captain america beating up thor and namor the same crap, as for the thread in my opinion captain america while a great fighter and stronger then karate kid he is also a great tactician that will explore karate kid and defeat him IMO

Originally posted by valtiz
so you posted the whole thing and? karate kid didnt get a lick on batman he just was back shoted by black lighting, facts are this isnt a batman vs karate kid thread but my entire point is that karate kid is too overated even if he is a little bit better fighter then batman he is still somewhere in batman calss just notice how they fight , but people insist that he can match superboy and superman give me a break its just like captain america beating up thor and namor the same crap, as for the thread in my opinion captain america while a great fighter and stronger then karate kid he is also a great tactician that will explore karate kid and defeat him IMO

Karate Kid's MIND wasn't in the fight. He thought he was TRIDENT. Val got the upperhand on him, because he took away his belt. Then he shifted, so he could get Lightning's help.

Originally posted by SamZED
ok WTF?! I dont know much about kk but ive read threads where everyone used to say that kk vs wolverine is spite and that bloodlusted spidey doesnt stand a CHANCE against him and that kk would be a good challenge for the hulk. Now 90% say that Cap can kick his ass. So i repeat my question - WTF?!

I noticed that too.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
BTW, Val's mind wasn't into it. He thought he was TRIDENT. Don't leave that out.

come on excuses aside , there are 3 fights where batman hangs toe 2 toe with klarate kid and even gets the better of him in 2 of those fights so please my point is proven

Batman doesn't have the feats of Karate Kid. Or the skills. val had him on the ropes TWICE.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Karate Kid's MIND wasn't in the fight. He thought he was TRIDENT. Val got the upperhand on him, because he took away his belt. Then he shifted, so he could get Lightning's help.

so he got batmans belt so? batman got a good solid punch on him and you see karate kid bleeding... it got nothing to do with his memory or anything the fact alone that it took 1 punch from batman to make him bleed already proves my point that hios fight with superboy is a total PIS because he is no where near durable enough to take a punch from him

You can deny it all you want, but Val had him on the ropes.

karate kid is just like iron fist and shang chi he got good feats vs super human bricks due to his skills but when fighting another street level martial artist you see there real league and abilities

Originally posted by valtiz
so he got batmans belt so? batman got a good solid punch on him and you see karate kid bleeding... it got nothing to do with his memory or anything the fact alone that it took 1 punch from batman to make him bleed already proves my point that hios fight with superboy is a total PIS because he is no where near durable enough to take a punch from him

Most of the crazy feats were PRE-CRISIS. That timeline has been erased.

Originally posted by valtiz
karate kid is just like iron fist and shang chi he got good feats vs super human bricks due to his skills but when fighting another street level martial artist you see there real league and abilities

No.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
You can deny it all you want, but Val had him on the ropes.

had him on the ropes? are you being real? batman punch him and make him bleed and val only got his belt so how did he have him on the ropes if he didnt even land a single strike on batman?

Originally posted by valtiz
had him on the ropes? are you being real? batman punch him and make him bleed and val only got his belt so how did he have him on the ropes if he didnt even land a single strike on batman?

He split his mask. In Brave and the Bold A LESSER Val got MORE hits on Batman. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
No.

no? those are your only points? yes no? you see for yourself that i am right so if you got nothing to say just leave it as it is, there are 3 fights where batman fights karate kid and in 2of those 3 batman gets the upper hand while in the last its a stalmate and even so how can you say val is the better fighter while 2 out of 3 fights went to batman

Originally posted by Prep-Man
No.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
He split his mask. In Brave and the Bold A LESSER Val got MORE hits on Batman. Deal with it.

please provide a proof to your statement with scans or anything otherwise this never happened, and even if it really happened why do you put 1 val victory over 2 from batman? and again please provide a proof to that fight

Originally posted by valtiz
no? those are your only points? yes no? you see for yourself that i am right so if you got nothing to say just leave it as it is, there are 3 fights where batman fights karate kid and in 2of those 3 batman gets the upper hand while in the last its a stalmate and even so how can you say val is the better fighter while 2 out of 3 fights went to batman

3 fights? You have no clue what you are talking about.

Originally posted by valtiz
please provide a proof to your statement with scans or anything otherwise this never happened, and even if it really happened why do you put 1 val victory over 2 from batman? and again please provide a proof to that fight

try reading the issue.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
3 fights? You have no clue what you are talking about.

why are you trying to twist obvious things? i already posted 2 fights where in thefirst they are even and in the second fight which we both posted batman gets the upper hand on him now there is a third fight when batman fights him and landing more strikes but i cant find it right now i will search for that , now what do youhave on your side? for now you got nothing aside from yes no posts

Yeah, and those scans show that was one fight. The second battle between the 2 happened in B&B, where Val also got the upperhand.

You're trolling and you know it. I'm going to have you reported for this. And you'll be banned later today.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
try reading the issue.

you are trying to avoid me but there is nothing to avoid because i stated the simple facts already, read what? did you even provide some issue of your fight that you clam took place and kk got the upper hand? first of all provide some proof and then you might have some credibility

no, i don't avoid.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Yeah, and those scans show that was one fight. The second battle between the 2 happened in B&B, where Val also got the upperhand.

You're trolling and you know it. I'm going to have you reported for this. And you'll be banned later today.

let me get it right... when yougot nothing to say and when you cant prove your statement you begin to say i am trolling and treatening to report me? thats lame , anyway back tomy point i show you a fight where batman gets the upper hand while you are claiming there was some fight where val had the upper hand which you cant prove.. if anything i would say that you are the one who is trolling but unlike you i am not going to report and cry help me to the mods when ever i cant have a simple discussion

Stop trying to twist things. Batman never got the upperhand.,

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Stop trying to twist things. Batman never got the upperhand.,

i posted a fight where batman punch karate kid and make him bleed thats a point in my favor which shows that batman got the upper hand, you on the other hand didnt post anything and you got nothing to back your clame so you are trolling big time and if i was a kid like you i would report you already long time ago

You lost, you just can't admit it. Sorry, sporto.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
try reading the issue.

Valtiz, he's right. Arguing stuff without context ruins the image of educated Russian fans (you grand swearing intro made me think you're my geographical neighbour (not using term compatriot cause I'm Belarusian and not Russian). Your troll-like behaviour pisses me off.

On topic, stipulate which Karate Kid.
The one of Earth-0 wins that 9\10, other versions for the win 6\10- shieldless Cap is good but not THAT good.

And "Lady Shiva being Batgirl level" is not an insult. Cass is in top 10 DC fighters for the reason- her brain is wired to be living fighting machine. Batgirl=crappy fighting skills when we talk about newb Stephany or to some extent about Babs (though she knows her stuff enough to handle herself in the fight, and brawl is not her forte anyways).

Personally I give Cassandra Cain 6\10 over Cap in shieldless, gadgetless fight.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
You lost, you just can't admit it. Sorry, sporto.

Lol i lost? again lets look at the situation i posted a fight where batman gotthe upper hand, you post what? nothing , what does it means? i prove my point you prove you cant admit when you are wrong

Yes, L-O-S-T.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Valtiz, he's right. Arguing stuff without context ruins the image of educated Russian fans (you grand swearing intro made me think you're my geographical neighbour (not using term compatriot cause I'm Belarusian and not Russian). Your troll-like behaviour pisses me off.

On topic, stipulate which Karate Kid.
The one of Earth-0 wins that 9\10, other versions for the win 6\10- shieldless Cap is good but not THAT good.

And "Lady Shiva being Batgirl level" is not an insult. Cass is in top 10 DC fighters for the reason- her brain is wired to be living fighting machine. Batgirl=crappy fighting skills when we talk about newb Stephany or to some extent about Babs (though she knows her stuff enough to handle herself in the fight, and brawl is not her forte anyways).

Personally I give Cassandra Cain 6\10 over Cap in shieldless, gadgetless fight.

how am i trolling when i post a proof to my statement while the other guy doesnt prove a thing and actually trolling?yes i am russian but it doesnt change anything facts are you choose to defend your web friend just because you know him for long time so if thats the case we got nothing to discuss

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Valtiz, he's right. Arguing stuff without context ruins the image of educated Russian fans (you grand swearing intro made me think you're my geographical neighbour (not using term compatriot cause I'm Belarusian and not Russian). Your troll-like behaviour pisses me off.

On topic, stipulate which Karate Kid.
The one of Earth-0 wins that 9\10, other versions for the win 6\10- shieldless Cap is good but not THAT good.

And "Lady Shiva being Batgirl level" is not an insult. Cass is in top 10 DC fighters for the reason- her brain is wired to be living fighting machine. Batgirl=crappy fighting skills when we talk about newb Stephany or to some extent about Babs (though she knows her stuff enough to handle herself in the fight, and brawl is not her forte anyways).

Personally I give Cassandra Cain 6\10 over Cap in shieldless, gadgetless fight.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Yes, L-O-S-T.

you really expect me to go into some troll war with you and begin insults? until you prove 1 of your statements you dont have any credibility to discuss with me

Originally posted by valtiz
Lol i lost? again lets loot and the situation i posted a fight where batman gotthe upper hand, you post what? nothing , what does it means? i prove my point you prove you cant admit when you are wrong
Batman got the upper hand over CRAZY person who has JUST woke up from coma. How exactly Batman beating (and working to get a win) Karate Kid on one of his WORST days translates into Captain America beating Val?
BTW Batman and Captain America are rough equals. Batman beat (with effort) very weakened Val, so how say shieldless Cap can win over Val in OPTIMAL condition (not crazy person infected by Morticoccus)?

Originally posted by valtiz
how am i trolling when i post a proof to my statement while the other guy doesnt prove a thing and actually trolling?yes i am russian but it doesnt change anything facts are you choose to defend your web friend just because you know him for long time so if thats the case we got nothing to discuss

Prep-Man is not my web friend, I barely know him. It's not like I'm part of his MSN\ICQ stomping squad. I simply can't stand BS of yours you're sprouting here.

Originally posted by valtiz
you really expect me to go into some troll war with you and begin insults? until you prove 1 of your statements you dont have any credibility to discuss with me

Do I have to quote myself again?

"Web friend" Valtiz is trying too hard.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Prep-Man is not my web friend, I barely know him. It's not like I'm part of his MSN\ICQ stomping squad. I simply can't stand BS of yours you're sprouting here.

Who is Fluffy? Your cat?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Batman got the upper hand over CRAZY person who has JUST woke up from coma. How exactly Batman beating (and working to get a win) Karate Kid on one of his WORST days translates into Captain America beating Val?
BTW Batman and Captain America are rough equals. Batman beat (with effort) very weakened Val, so how say shieldless Cap can win over Val in OPTIMAL condition (not crazy person infected by Morticoccus)?

i didnt see much effort in that fight, i just saw kk getting his face bleeding from a punch to tellyou the truth its not even a good fight but thats all we got, there is another fight which i cant find right now where batman again gets the upper hand, there is another fight as posted where they are even both batman and KK so what does it prove? at best kk is at batman level , now captain america i personally consider to be the better fighter he is stronger then batman, more durable then batman, got crazy crazy damage soak and will power and he is extra ordenery tactician he is just a league above batman in my book thats my personal opinion about the batman vs cap thing

now with kk we got facts which show us that batman is even or slightly better fighter then him so what else do you want?

Originally posted by valtiz
i didnt see much effort in that fight, i just saw kk getting his face bleeding from a punch to tellyou the truth its not even a good fight but thats all we got, there is another fight which i cant find right now where batman again gets the upper hand, there is another fight as posted where they are even both batman and KK so what does it prove? at best kk is at batman level , now captain america i personally consider to be the better fighter he is stronger then batman, more durable then batman, got crazy crazy damage soak and will power and he is extra ordenery tactician he is just a league above batman in my book thats my personal opinion about the batman vs cap thing

now with kk we got facts which show us that batman is even or slightly better fighter then him so what else do you want?

Wrong again, sporto.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Who is Fluffy? You're cat?

prep man you are now trolling this thread if you want we can continue this discussion in private message but the way isee it our discussion ended with me proving my point while you choose to avoid a simple discussion because you cant prove your point so you rather just write random jokes, you my friend really lost nuff said

Originally posted by valtiz
prep man you are now trolling this thread if you want we can continue this discussion in private message but the way isee it our discussion ended with me proving my point while you choose to avoid a simple discussion because you cant prove your point so you rather just write random jokes, you my friend really lost nuff said

Until you check your facts, I don't think there is much to debate.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Until you check your facts, I don't think there is much to debate.

i posted a fact while you post nothing so what facts are you talking about? you didnt give any facts to even consider

No, you deny what happened. Stop playing games.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
No, you deny what happened. Stop playing games.

really? and what happened aside from KK getting his face broken by batman? another fight where they are even, another fight where batman gets the upper hand.. you want to tell me in all those3 fights KK was in coma? wow thats amazing every time he needs to fight batman he is awaking from coma? give me a break

2, not 3. The Countdown fight is the same as JLA:Lightning Saga.

B&B is the second one.

i know about 3 fights, first one the one we both posted where they are even , second one is the other one i posted where batman gets the upper hand , third one is the fight i cant find but karate kid was wearing white outfit and batman landed more strikes on him and had the upper hand , if there was another fight i dont know about i would love to see it

They only fought twice. Stop with the shenanigans.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
They only fought twice. Stop with the shenanigans.

you said yourself that there was another fight right? so now what you are lying? you are saying the fight you said they had and kk beat batman is a lie? as i said you lost and there was a third fight with batman on top

2 fights.

KK wins. The fight with Batman was kinda stupid.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
KK wins. The fight with Batman was kinda stupid.

You don't think Bruce won, do you?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
You don't think Bruce won, do you?
No, the guy had amnesia(if that's how you spell it). Lets see how Captain America will fight against a guy when he has amnesia and just got woken up.

Bruce has never beaten kk IIRC .

The fight with KK you are seemingly referring to was "won" only because Black Ligthning cheapshotted KK from behind.

Let's put it this way. If KK is 15 and Bruce is 12. KK was in this situation, amnesia etc, as fit as an 13. I would place CA on the 12 or 11.

Captain America fighting skills is roughly on Batman level. Didn't Karate kid defeat Batman if he did Karate take this because they are few being in the Marvel universe that are masters of all forms of martial arts. Batman is use to fighting people that have his level of skills because they are more being in the DC universe who are masters of all forms of marital arts such has Lady Shiva, Bane, Bronze tiger and much more.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Personally I give Cassandra Cain 6\10 over Cap in shieldless, gadgetless fight.

At least.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, the guy had amnesia(if that's how you spell it). Lets see how Captain America will fight against a guy when he has amnesia and just got woken up.

And don't forget that amnesiac Val was Morticoccus-infected. So the analogue would be say amnesiac Cap sans-SSS (though not dystrophy (spelling?), of course, but not optimal physical conditions) vs say Daredevil IN DAREDEVIL'S own comics. When Karate Kid's fights are often attributed to PIS, well...it's one's opinion, but sometimes he faces "Popularity Power" which is nearly unstoppable thing (and is responsible for a huge bit of the rep of shieldless Cap and Wolverine as unstoppable unbeatable fighters).

In fact, "know ALL the MAs" is BS when it comes to real fight, as most good fighters who know fair number pick something from here and something from there and make their own fighting style...90% of the knowledge of multiple disciplines is redundant as human body and the number of things you can do with it is limited (comics books introduce extraterrestial MAs, that helps a bit in that).

Val is uber not because of quantity, but of quality. His primary discipline is what he calls "Super Karare" but in reality it's more like "Hokuto Shiken in western comics" (AKA performing clearly superhuman feats via pressure points and chi manipulation). It was a synthesis of majority known MAs in 30th century galaxy (practised not only on Earth, but also on the planets with different physical parameters- like high gravity ones, or dark heavily clouded atmosphere ones).

I think you're missing Valtiz's main point guys, even if KK was winning the fight against Bats (which obviously can be argued) it still only makes him a slightly better fighter than Bruce and that does NOT make him a match for Superboy, or even Spider-man..

Originally posted by SamZED
I think you're missing Valtiz's main point guys, even if KK was winning the fight against Bats (which obviously can be argued) it still only makes him a slightly better fighter than Bruce and that does NOT make him a match for Superboy, or even Spider-man..

finally someone who understand my point

Originally posted by SamZED
I think you're missing Valtiz's main point guys, even if KK was winning the fight against Bats (which obviously can be argued) it still only makes him a slightly better fighter than Bruce and that does NOT make him a match for Superboy, or even Spider-man.. Agreed ^

Karate Kid take this fight 7/10

Karate Kid would be a match for Spidey, at least PC Karate Kid (who managed to fight PC Superboy for a little while (WTF?)). Modern KK could keep Pete on his toes though he'd probably lose in the end.
The Karate Kid that fought Bruce was far from 100%, he was groggy, amnesiac, and by all indications tired. Also Batman was clearly taking the greater beating during the course of the fight.

If current KK gets beat by Batman-Spiderman destroys him!

Cap ftw.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
If current KK gets beat by Batman-Spiderman destroys him!
As I said above Karate Kid wasn't at his best when Batman fought him, not even close.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
As I said above Karate Kid wasn't at his best when Batman fought him, not even close.

Whatever -Cap beats curren KK!

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Whatever -Cap beats curren KK!
No he doesn't. Even with his shield Cap shouldn't beat him just like Batman shouldn't beat him.

What are KK's powers? I know I've asked this before but I forgot and seeing this thread made me think that he must be pretty normal to have a hard time with Cap in h2h. Seriously Sabertooth would murder cap in no sheild h2h so kk must be weaker than sabes right?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Karate Kid would be a match for Spidey, at least PC Karate Kid (who managed to fight PC Superboy for a little while (WTF?)). Modern KK could keep Pete on his toes though he'd probably lose in the end.
The Karate Kid that fought Bruce was far from 100%, he was groggy, amnesiac, and by all indications tired. Also Batman was clearly taking the greater beating during the course of the fight.

really? so you are saying he was after coma and suffering from amnesia all the 3 fights they had? get out of here and dont make me laugh

you can say karate kid had amnesia in one of those fights but there are other 2 fights in one of them they are even and its a stalmate in the other one they exchange blows and batman gets the upper hand so your argument is invalid

Originally posted by valtiz
you can say karate kid had amnesia in one of those fights but there are other 2 fights in one of them they are even and its a stalmate in the other one they exchange blows and batman gets the upper hand so your argument is invalid
They only fought twice as I recall.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
They only fought twice as I recall.

then you dont recall very well because they had 3 fights

Originally posted by Omega Vision
As I said above Karate Kid wasn't at his best when Batman fought him, not even close.

Nobody's ever at their best when they fight Batman because he has to have a chance to win, even when he's vastly overpowered due to being a human with no super abilities.

His feats really shouldn't be a factor because his humanity is his superpower that allows him to win 97% of his fights no matter who he's fighting....Cap is not Batmans equal if you're looking at comic book evidence. (not including the voted battle between them of course.)

Originally posted by valtiz
then you dont recall very well because they had 3 fights
List them then.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
List them then.

listed them on previous pages search it

Originally posted by valtiz
listed them on previous pages search it
Two of the fights you listed were the same fight.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Two of the fights you listed were the same fight.

no they werent, there is the first one in which its a draw, second one where batman punch him and make his face bleed and the third one i cant find but its another fight where batman gets the upper hand

Originally posted by valtiz
no they werent, there is the first one in which its a draw, second one where batman punch him and make his face bleed and the third one i cant find but its another fight where batman gets the upper hand
Well until you find it I call shenanigans.

OK, on Spiderman. He can't effectively fight top tier MAs, don't know how bloodlust changes that in pure H2H, cage type match and Karate Kid vs Wolverine is either spite or (if BS about pressure points not working on Wolvie canon) Wolverine wins due to having better stamina (Cap has infinite stamina, but pressure points work on him just as well as on normal human).

Karate Kid's showings against Kryptonians\Daxamites were either sparring matches or the ones against mindcontrolled foes. Also they're mostly stalemate (that's the reason Karate Kid is not herald tier anymore in KMC tier table).

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
OK, on Spiderman. He can't effectively fight top tier MAs, don't know how bloodlust changes that in pure H2H, cage type match and Karate Kid vs Wolverine is either spite or (if BS about pressure points not working on Wolvie canon) Wolverine wins due to having better stamina (Cap has infinite stamina, but pressure points work on him just as well as on normal human).

Karate Kid's showings against Kryptonians\Daxamites were either sparring matches or the ones against mindcontrolled foes. Also they're mostly stalemate (that's the reason Karate Kid is not herald tier anymore in KMC tier table).

spider-man can and will beat any martial artist because PIS off spider-man will be and should be too fast to be even touched by them , they are fast but they are still humanly fast spider-man is above human much above human in speed and agility adding the spider sense is an overkill vs any human

Also, 90% of good feats are Earth-0 Karate Kid (he's in current DC continuity also as per Legion of Three Worlds). Batman fought far inferior incarnation (threeboot one? I'm not that great on Karate Kids, at least not the best there is on them).

Originally posted by valtiz
spider-man can and will beat any martial artist because PIS off spider-man will be and should be too fast to be even touched by them , they are fast but they are still humanly fast spider-man is above human much above human in speed and agility adding the spider sense is an overkill vs any human

Blah-blah-blah... so you do believe he wins 10\10 against upgraded Iron Fist or Kenshiro (sorry for going into manga, but that's the closest analogue to optimal Karate Kid, and upgraded Iron Fist is the closest MU example)? IMO stalemate at best, if we're talking h2h with no webbing, getting owned at worst.
Chi speedups rule, darling. Want to have battlezone?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
OK, on Spiderman. He can't effectively fight top tier MAs, don't know how bloodlust changes that in pure H2H, cage type match and Karate Kid vs Wolverine is either spite or (if BS about pressure points not working on Wolvie canon) Wolverine wins due to having better stamina (Cap has infinite stamina, but pressure points work on him just as well as on normal human).

Karate Kid's showings against Kryptonians\Daxamites were either sparring matches or the ones against mindcontrolled foes. Also they're mostly stalemate (that's the reason Karate Kid is not herald tier anymore in KMC tier table).
Captain America has infinite stamina?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Blah-blah-blah... so you do believe he wins 10\10 against upgraded Iron Fist or Kenshiro (sorry for going into manga, but that's the closest analogue to optimal Karate Kid, and upgraded Iron Fist is the closest MU example)? IMO stalemate at best, if we're talking h2h with no webbing, getting owned at worst.
Chi speedups rule, darling. Want to have battlezone?

first of all chi amping or no chi amping it doesnt give you super abilities at the level spider-man has, he got spider sense that warn him and super speed and agility no martial artist should be able to even touch him he is beyond any human ability and any human and yes he can beat iron fist because his chi amp doesnt give him super speed at the levels of spider-man it amps his punch

what the hell is battlezone

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Blah-blah-blah... so you do believe he wins 10\10 against upgraded Iron Fist or Kenshiro (sorry for going into manga, but that's the closest analogue to optimal Karate Kid, and upgraded Iron Fist is the closest MU example)? IMO stalemate at best, if we're talking h2h with no webbing, getting owned at worst.
Chi speedups rule, darling. Want to have battlezone?
To be fair current Iron Fist is a superhuman chi amp but people like Batman or Daredevil should not stand a chance against wellwritten non-holding back Spider-man. Also Parker bad showings against MA fighters is a KMC myth. The only MA fighter he constantly got trouble against is Cap bcause he respects him too much.

spider-man beating black panther daredevil and going toe 2 toe with shang chi is a PIS because in a real no holding back fight he should MURDER them with a single punch but if they show that in the actual comics it would be boring right? so this is why here we debate the way they really should be and spider-man should be able to shatter any of those guys skull with a single punch

Originally posted by SamZED
To be fair current Iron Fist is a superhuman chi amp but people like Batman or Daredevil should not stand a chance against wellwritten non-holding back Spider-man. Also Parker bad showings against MA fighters is a KMC myth. The only MA fighter he constantly got trouble against is Cap bcause he respects him too much.

Then why the hell you're arguing against Karate Kid?
Chi amps in play (and his "Super Karate" is chi-amp\pressure points\sensory amp oriented MA)=he's in the same boat as Spidey speedwise, lifting strength means little in the fight.

Karate Kid is much more of Iron Fist analogue than Batman\Daredevil analogue. He lost against Batman once via being amnesiac and cheapshotted from behind, and the other fight wasn't that clear either.

Ponyatno teper', ili ne sovsem vetitsya?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Then why the hell you're arguing against Karate Kid?
Chi amps in play (and his "Super Karate" is chi-amp\pressure points\sensory amp oriented MA)=he's in the same boat as Spidey speedwise, lifting strength means little in the fight.

Karate Kid is much more of Iron Fist analogue than Batman\Daredevil analogue. He lost against Batman once via being amnesiac and cheapshotted from behind, and the other fight wasn't that clear either.

Ponyatno teper', ili ne sovsem vetitsya?

eta tebe pahodu nepanatna mnoga chevo

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Then why the hell you're arguing against Karate Kid? im not, all i said was, his abilities do not put him on Superboy level as some people around here seem to believe.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel

Chi amps in play (and his "Super Karate" is chi-amp\pressure points\sensory amp oriented MA)=he's in the same boat as Spidey speedwise, lifting strength means little in the fight.

Karate Kid is much more of Iron Fist analogue than Batman\Daredevil analogue. He lost against Batman once via being amnesiac and cheapshotted from behind, and the other fight wasn't that clear either.
My very first post in this thread said "i dont know much about kk" the reason I got into conversation -some people say he can fight Superboy but others say he's gonna get his ass kicked by Cap America, and if that's true, there's no way in hell he could be in Spidey's league, let alone SUperboy. I wsn't arguing his abilities, only trying to clear things up. Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel

Ponyatno teper', ili ne sovsem vetitsya? Chestno govoria ne sovsem, kto-to govorit chto on = Superboy a kto-to chto on < Cap America, tak komu verit?

Originally posted by SamZED
im not, all i said was, his abilities do not put him on Superboy level as some people around here seem to believe.
My very first post in this thread said "i dont know much about kk" the reason I got into conversation -some people say he can fight Superboy but others say he's gonna get his ass kicked by Cap America, and if that's true, there's no way in hell he could be in Spidey's league, let alone SUperboy. I wsn't arguing his abilities, only trying to clear things up. Chestno govoria ne sovsem, kto-to govorit chto on = Superboy a kto-to chto on < Cap America, tak komu verit?

pasmatri na fakti, on chelavek katoriye pizdec natrinirovaniy no on vsevolish chelavek katoriye derotsa na uravnah batmana i lady shiva on kak shang chi chota napadobi ili iron fist nichivo asobinava

Originally posted by SamZED
im not, all i said was, his abilities do not put him on Superboy level as some people around here seem to believe.
My very first post in this thread said "i dont know much about kk" the reason I got into conversation -some people say he can fight Superboy but others say he's gonna get his ass kicked by Cap America, and if that's true, there's no way in hell he could be in Spidey's league, let alone SUperboy. I wsn't arguing his abilities, only trying to clear things up. Chestno govoria ne sovsem, kto-to govorit chto on = Superboy a kto-to chto on < Cap America, tak komu verit?

He's >shieldless Captain America and can amp himself to stalemate top tiers for a while (able to react of Flashes and Superboy), as well as hurt them with chi-amped pressure point-aimed strikes, but he's nowhere near their equals.
According to the last tourney drafts here on KMC, he's regarded as mid-meta (roughly the same as upgraded Iron Fist).

Originally posted by valtiz
pasmatri na fakti, on chelavek katoriye pizdec natrinirovaniy no on vsevolish chelavek katoriye derotsa na uravnah batmana i lady shiva on kak shang chi chota napadobi ili iron fist nichivo asobinava

Shang Chi\current Iron Fist are nothing special? Chi amps are=freakin' superpowers in comics. He can't keep up with Spidey in the marathon run, but as far as combat speed goes, speedwise he's on Spiderman level...and spider-sence can be f*cked up with "false positives".

http://spidermedia.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17070&view=unread#unread
Pебята, не против если продолжим по-русски тут (с привлечением тамошних эксперто&#1074?

Originally posted by valtiz
pasmatri na fakti, on chelavek katoriye pizdec natrinirovaniy no on vsevolish chelavek katoriye derotsa na uravnah batmana i lady shiva on kak shang chi chota napadobi ili iron fist nichivo asobinava i agree

pastrami n fettuccini!

Originally posted by The MISTER
i agree

pastrami n fettuccini!

Parliamo Russo, non Italiano, capisce?

Thread got derailed..it seems.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Parliamo Russo, non Italiano, capisce?

Thread got derailed..it seems. Sorry, non parlo sovsem Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
http://spidermedia.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17070&view=unread#unread
Pебята, не против если продолжим по-русски тут (с привлечением тамошних эксперто&#1074? Nu uj net, davay ka na neytralnoy territorii bez moralnoy podderjki lichnih speciualistov
Ne berus govorit pro KK, no Iron Fista Spider otdelal uje dvajdi, bolee togo dlia togo chtobi sumet nanesti Parkeru odin edinstenny udar Randu potrebovalos pribegnut k hitrosti a tak eto bilo odnostoronnee izbienie oba raza, eto dovolno mnogo govorit ob ih raznici v skorosti. Mojet est i drugie boy o kotorih ya ne znau, esli tak, rad budu uznat. Voobshe KMC proroditel mnogih mifov, odin iz nih chto Toxin silnee chem Venom i Carnage vmeste vziatie, esho odin chto Parker ne mojet dratsia s MA boycami. Delo v tom chto obichno on deretsia ne na vse 100 chtobi nikogo ne pokalechit. Chto je bivaet so vsemi etimi MA boycami kogda Peter perestaet "igratsia" potomu chto silno razozlen? Vot para primerov.
1) Razozlenniy Parker odnim udarom otpravliaet v nokaut Daredevila kotoriy zatevaet s nim draku.
2) Razozlenniy Parker delaet iz Kingpina chut-li ni kaleku ne poluchiv pri etom ni carapinki.
3) Razozlivshiysia Parker manoveniem ruki virubaet Bullseya.
4) Razozlivshiysia parker odnoy levoy otdelivaet Taskmastera za 3 sekundi.
5) Na protiajenii minut 10 izbivaet Deadpoola kotoriy ne mojet emu otvetit.
I takih primerov polno i vse visheperechislennie serioznie MA boyci.

Excuse me but wasn't this (Captain America vs. Karate Kid) the thread?

KK beats the crap outta cap, seriously...............at least in the last incarnation i can recall

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Parliamo Russo, non Italiano, capisce?

Thread got derailed..it seems.
just a little...but i am jealous of the ability to speak more than one language. It's really cool.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Karate Kid would be a match for Spidey, at least PC Karate Kid (who managed to fight PC Superboy for a little while (WTF?)). Modern KK could keep Pete on his toes though he'd probably lose in the end.
The Karate Kid that fought Bruce was far from 100%, he was groggy, amnesiac, and by all indications tired. Also Batman was clearly taking the greater beating during the course of the fight.

Agreed.

Why is the guy thinking Val lost because Batman punched him and drew blood? Did you see Batman at the end of that fight? He was a mess and obviously going to lose if Black Lighting didnt cheapshot him.

This is stupid. Captain America loses as would Batman. KK is just that good.

Originally posted by tkitna
Why is the guy thinking Val lost because Batman punched him and drew blood? Did you see Batman at the end of that fight? He was a mess and obviously going to lose if Black Lighting didnt cheapshot him.

This is stupid. Captain America loses as would Batman. KK is just that good. What martial arts are under caps belt that make him good enough to hang with KK anyway?

Originally posted by SamZED
I think you're missing Valtiz's main point guys, even if KK was winning the fight against Bats (which obviously can be argued) it still only makes him a slightly better fighter than Bruce and that does NOT make him a match for Superboy, or even Spider-man..


Feats say otherwise.

300 Martial Arts and the vulcan death grip. Just kidding but seriously a hole bunch.

Originally posted by BattleMage
300 Martial Arts and the vulcan death grip. Just kidding but seriously a hole bunch.
I can guarantee you that Karate Kid knows every move Cap knows and more, he's learned every martial art in the 30th Century, and not just from Earth.

Primery ne v kassy (invalid examples not to seem impolite).

Show me Parker doing something like that to the fighters like Iron Fist\Chang Chi at his best (not "jobbing to Wolverine" level. And then we'll talk about his odds with Val Amorr.

I agree that Parker can beat what is baseline humans with good fighting skills (and win over say Daredevil or Wolverine handily, I don't think Wolvie is top tier MA master). Add chi boosting to metahuman levels, and Parker's stats suddenly aren't the case of game breaking.

Can we keep posts in English please???

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Primery ne v kassy (invalid examples not to seem impolite).

Show me Parker doing something like that to the fighters like Iron Fist\Chang Chi at his best (not "jobbing to Wolverine" level. And then we'll talk about his odds with Val Amorr.

I agree that Parker can beat what is baseline humans with good fighting skills (and win over say Daredevil or Wolverine handily, I don't think Wolvie is top tier MA master). Add chi boosting to metahuman levels, and Parker's stats suddenly aren't the case of game breaking. Daredevil and Wolverine are among the best MA fighters in marvel. They are up the in top 10 actually, maybe 5 even. And I already told you how his fights with Iron Fist went, IF couldnt land a punch on him, had to use a trick, and Parker wasn't going all out either. And how are the examples invalid? The very reason I even brought that up is because im tired of the stupid KMC myth that any great MA fighter > Spider-man and my examples prove it wrong. Never said that Iron Fist with his chi amped atacks doesnt stand a chance, i mean the guy recently destroyed a train with a punch, he's clearly superhuman because of his chi manip but not any top fighter is capable of that. And even that doesnt guarantee him the win here.

Originally posted by SamZED
Daredevil and Wolverine are among the best MA fighters in marvel. They are up the in top 10 actually, maybe 5 even. And I already told you how his fights with Iron Fist went, IF couldnt land a punch on him, had to use a trick, and Parker wasn't going all out either. And how are the examples invalid? The very reason I even brought that up is because im tired of the stupid KMC myth that any great MA fighter > Spider-man and my examples prove it wrong. Never said that Iron Fist with his chi amped atacks doesnt stand a chance, i mean the guy recently destroyed a train with a punch, he's clearly superhuman because of his chi manip but not any top fighter is capable of that. And even that doesnt guarantee him the win here.

You speak a lot of sense regarding human MA's v Spiderman my friend- but unfortunately that means some posters on here will be lining up to call you a "Spiderman fanboy"
That being said, if KK is at the level where he could fight Superboy, then Steve is toast.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I can guarantee you that Karate Kid knows every move Cap knows and more, he's learned every martial art in the 30th Century, and not just from Earth. Does he use styles that increase his power to translate into superhuman strikes?

Originally posted by BUSTER1
You speak a lot of sense regarding human MA's v Spiderman my friend- but unfortunately that means some posters on here will be lining up to call you a "Spiderman fanboy"
That being said, if KK is at the level where he could fight Superboy, then Steve is toast. Thanks. And i dont mind if people call me a Spider-man fanboy because ive got scans to prove what I said. Now if I was like "NOO! SPIDERMAN KILLZ Irom Fist zlol!!111!!" then they would've had a point.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Does he use styles that increase his power to translate into superhuman strikes?
Karate Kid? He's the only member of the LOSH without any innate superpowers and he's fought guys that would make short work of Cap.

Val Armorr was trained under his master to take on METAS. He's fought beings far faster than Spider-Man, he has developed an ability to read his opponents every move, just like Batgirl. He can see weak points in any object and on top of that, can increase his powers through "SUPER KARATE". Which increases his stats across the board.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Val Armorr was trained under his master to take on METAS. He's fought beings far faster than Spider-Man, he has developed an ability to read his opponents every move, just like Batgirl. He can see weak points in any object and on top of that, can increase his powers through "SUPER KARATE". Which increases his stats across the board.

And that's why I hate him

KK 10/10 easily

Val wins but cap puts in the best showing of almost any street level character IMO. There are a couple who may do better but there street status is more debateable..

KK is similar to the temugin of cap's universe........he stomps

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think he's talking about when KK didn't have his memory and they did that sparring session when it had KK listed as a higher level fighter than him and he wanted to beat him.

How on earth could Cap beat KK? KK's got those suped up alien martial arts skills...

Val with ****ing ease, how is this thread 7 pages again?

Originally posted by SamZED
ok WTF?! I dont know much about kk but ive read threads where everyone used to say that kk vs wolverine is spite and that bloodlusted spidey doesnt stand a CHANCE against him and that kk would be a good challenge for the hulk. Now 90% say that Cap can kick his ass. So i repeat my question - WTF?!



KMC logic for you

KK stomps

KK can amp with chi or somethin right? (like ironfist & mandarin)

so he give himself superhuman stats, and Cap is only peak human

More like his strikes are superhuman. If he wanted to he could chop Caps arm off.

wich means he does use some kinda magic or chi amp or w/e
basicly hes like ironfist

Nobody really knows what he uses

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
KK can amp with chi or somethin right? (like ironfist & mandarin)

so he give himself superhuman stats, and Cap is only peak human

Super Karate. Or at least that's what they used to call it. It's not like Iron Fist, BTW.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
KK can amp with chi or somethin right? (like ironfist & mandarin)

so he give himself superhuman stats, and Cap is only peak human

Stop reading Bios, Cap is Superhuman, his respect thread is 4 clicks away and in it you will find evidence and become enlightened.

That said, it's quite hard to place KK on a Marvel scale, he seems to be akin to Ironfist, but even Ironfist was in danger of loosing his fight with Cap unless he let go some chi ampage. Discounting pre-crisis KK feats, i definetley wouldn't put him (kk) at Temugin level. If he can amp..and he prolly can manip chi in some way, id say he takes Cap for a solid...if he isnt amping, then Cap could at least get a split. People are judging how well cap would do by how well Batman has done, Cap operates at a harder faster level than Bats when push comes to shove.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Stop reading Bios, Cap is Superhuman, his respect thread is 4 clicks away and in it you will find evidence and become enlightened. um yeah i know about his superstrenght feats, but their exeptions & its not like he allways use em
(i mean look at his fights with classic kingpin lol )

is like batman he got superstrenght feats too but hes only peak human

Nah i believe Cap is genuinely superhuman close to Deathstroke level.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Nah i believe Cap is genuinely superhuman close to Deathstroke level.
If that's the case then so are Dare Devil and Batman since they have comparable feats.

I have said the same thing and i disagree now

Originally posted by iceman24567
I have said the same thing and i disagree now
I'll agree that Cap is the peak, peak human. That is if he does superhuman stuff it isn't that ridiculous but he isn't on Deathstroke's level. He's never done things like tag Flash or carry a bridge cable.

Never said he was Deathstroke level but he's close. Deathstroke has never survived being in a Nuclear reactor or anything close to that

Originally posted by iceman24567
Never said he was Deathstroke level but he's close. Deathstroke has never survived being in a Nuclear reactor or anything close to that
Neither should have Cap, that's bull. Doesn't he have radiation sickness at least?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'll agree that Cap is the peak, peak human. That is if he does superhuman stuff it isn't that ridiculousbut its still ridiculus


some of Caps strenght feats, no human ever ever coud do anything close 2 that (to start with they could never build enuf muscle for that, even with steroids, and even if they could they would still break there bones trying to do some o this shit)