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I have a question: What does Woverine have to do for you to convince you guys that he can indeed win high against top tiers?

For example what would it take for you to say he can beat Thor , Can stab Superman etc...

I know we have many non believe and skeptic when it comes to Logan but one has to ask are we going to keep ignoring comics when it comes to this guy?

for example Say Wolverine beats Firelord by stabbing him to death etc would that change anything?

Wrong thread

What will it take to convince you that he can't beat guys like Thor or Superman?

When the writers dumb down those characters allowing Wolverine to win.....

Originally posted by kgkg
I have a question: What does Woverine have to do for you to convince you guys that he can indeed win high against top tiers?

For example what would it take for you to say he can beat Thor , Can stab Superman etc...

I know we have many non believe and skeptic when it comes to Logan but one has to ask are we going to keep ignoring comics when it comes to this guy?

for example Say Wolverine beats Firelord by stabbing him to death etc would that change anything? Batman gets it worse. He hangs out against the top tiers too, but he gets the 'he doesnt have powers' treatment.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
What will it take to convince you that he can't beat guys like Thor or Superman?

Blow up a planet.

EDIT: No wait, a galaxy

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman gets it worse. He hangs out against the top tiers too, but he gets the 'he doesnt have powers' treatment.
Batman doesn't get it worse, at all.

Top tier would be heralds, and Batman only -barely- survives those encounters, he do not "hang" with them.

I also wonder who'd be stupid enough to pull the "he has no powers" argument. Man's got an insane suit. Stops bullets, adds strength and so on.

Originally posted by kgkg
I have a question: What does Woverine have to do for you to convince you guys that he can indeed win high against top tiers?

For example what would it take for you to say he can beat Thor , Can stab Superman etc...

I know we have many non believe and skeptic when it comes to Logan but one has to ask are we going to keep ignoring comics when it comes to this guy?

for example Say Wolverine beats Firelord by stabbing him to death etc would that change anything?

well i hate superman and love wolverine but not only could he not win ever against Sups but he would never even get to touch him let alone stab him...not to mention the claws wouldn't puncture superman at all...as for thor i wont lie thor is someone i like alot but completely unbiased opinion here logan could never go against him ever. Sorry

I'd like it if a little more thought was put into the encounters instead of his opponents just being dumb around him. The Spider-Man vs Firelord thing I thought was fine example. It took him like a whole day to just KO Firelord. Granted, I don't know much about Firelord so it could have been out of character for him to try to be honorable about it and want to melee Spider-Man instead of just burning down the city but I thought it was reasonable. Better than "****, I just forgot what powers I have."

Well, to be fair Wolverine did stab Thanos.






(hehehe...awaits quanchi's arrival) mmm

Originally posted by kgkg
I have a question: What does Woverine have to do for you to convince you guys that he can indeed win high against top tiers?

For example what would it take for you to say he can beat Thor , Can stab Superman etc...

I know we have many non believe and skeptic when it comes to Logan but one has to ask are we going to keep ignoring comics when it comes to this guy?

for example Say Wolverine beats Firelord by stabbing him to death etc would that change anything?
To really change my opinion, they'd have to keep him at top tier level consistently. If he fights on even terms with Gladiator or Firelord in one issue, he shouldn't get chumped by someone like Sabretooth in the next. To be considered one of the big boys, showings on the low end of the spectrum should be the exception not the rule.

Originally posted by kgkg
I have a question: What does Woverine have to do for you to convince you guys that he can indeed win high against top tiers?


He cant and and shouldnt be able too. If he does, its crap writing and fanboys wet dreams.

Originally posted by Kazenji
When the writers dumb down those characters allowing Wolverine to win.....

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
What will it take to convince you that he can't beat guys like Thor or Superman?

Originally posted by darthgoober
To really change my opinion, they'd have to keep him at top tier level consistently. If he fights on even terms with Gladiator or Firelord in one issue, he shouldn't get chumped by someone like Sabretooth in the next. To be considered one of the big boys, showings on the low end of the spectrum should be the exception not the rule. But how does loosing to Sabretooth take away anything from his wins or good fight with top tiers since he has done consistently well against them.

Writers seem to give the impression that Wolverine can indeed do some damage in that department. I understand that his power set does not allow or shouldn't allow him to win or do well against top tier but he does and have been doing for years.

So we just go the PIS/CIS route for all this major fights against top tiers?

Originally posted by kgkg
I have a question: What does Woverine have to do for you to convince you guys that he can indeed win high against top tiers?

For example what would it take for you to say he can beat Thor , Can stab Superman etc...

I know we have many non believe and skeptic when it comes to Logan but one has to ask are we going to keep ignoring comics when it comes to this guy?

for example Say Wolverine beats Firelord by stabbing him to death etc would that change anything?

What does it take? A clear victory over Cyclops

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I'd like it if a little more thought was put into the encounters instead of his opponents just being dumb around him. The Spider-Man vs Firelord thing I thought was fine example. It took him like a whole day to just KO Firelord. Granted, I don't know much about Firelord so it could have been out of character for him to try to be honorable about it and want to melee Spider-Man instead of just burning down the city but I thought it was reasonable. Better than "****, I just forgot what powers I have."

In response to the original thread question-Logan would have to undergo some major on panel augmentation, like for instance infusion of the power cosmic. With Logan's classic powerset he should get stomped against top tier opponents, like when Sentry ended thier fight, with 1 punch.

see I was all for this thread untill I heard, firelord, superman ect.


If we talking against namor, thing, herc, Tiger Shark ect. Hanging with Hulk ect. I see what you mean because consistently does this.

He hardly fights any beings of superman o firelord level.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
With Logan's classic powerset he should get stomped against top tier opponents, like when Sentry ended thier fight, with 1 punch.
for starters his classic power set he was not even a mutant, his gloves were attach to his gloves, he was in his twenties, has spiderman level stats and no healing factor........



Sentry did not end it in one punch. He hit wolverine twice after stating he new he could no kill wolverine implying he was not holding back at all with the shots, wolevrine said he hits like galactus, and wolverine had shaw to his throat moments before the event.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Sentry did not end it in one punch. He hit wolverine twice after stating he new he could no kill wolverine implying he was not holding back at all with the shots, wolevrine said he hits like galactus, and wolverine had shaw to his throat moments before the event.

Has he ever actually been hit by Galactus? Given his comic title promiscuity, I don't doubt that he might have, but that seems like a funny claim to make.

Originally posted by Digi
Has he ever actually been hit by Galactus? Given his comic title promiscuity, I don't doubt that he might have, but that seems like a funny claim to make.
actaully he might have during secret war, but it was more or less hyper bole. Pretty much ment he hits really really hard.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
What does it take? A clear victory over Cyclops

Logan wishes he was like Cyclops. Scott got the leadership, the looks, the style, and of course Jean.

Logan=self pity.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
Logan wishes he was like Cyclops. Scott got the leadership, the looks, the style, and of course Jean.

Logan=self pity.
Logan was offered co leadership and turn it down. He does not want to be the leader and has lead many teams before including the original alpha flight. Style? I rather be a bad ass then a boy scot. Jean really loves Logan.


Scot more about self pitty then wolverine is.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
Logan wishes he was like Cyclops. Scott got the leadership, the looks, the style, and of course Jean.

Logan=self pity.
Oh snap.

To make me think Wolverine can hang out with top tiers I want him to fight Superman in a cannon crossover, stabbing him and leaving him for death after stopping Flash's speed blitz and one shotting Wonder Woman without his claws. Then he has to KO Darkseid after he survives 8 the omega effect eight times in a row.

Then, I want it to be remembered and mentioned in the next ten years of comic book history and make it into a series of movies, until the character its known as "the hairy dwarf who decked Superman".

Then cancel all the books he is in and kill him permanently so we know it was not just to boost or boast his popularity. THEN, I'll concede Logan beats Supes handily and I'll make a respect threat about it.

Sentry, Wonder Man & Gladiator have all one-shotted Wolverine. Give it up.
He's one of the most popular characters in comics, is deservedly included in the ranks of the best characters ever created, is a household name now thanks to the X-Men films...

But it doesn't make him top tier.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Logan was offered co leadership and turn it down. He does not want to be the leader and has lead many teams before including the original alpha flight. Style? I rather be a bad ass then a boy scot. Jean really loves Logan.


Scot more about self pitty then wolverine is.

facepalm

Most popular street level and low meta level characters do well against higher tiers. It's just the way it is. Bat's, who is one of my favorites, has put down Grundy, Captain Marvel and made DS bleed. I wouldn't consider those feats "right" given power sets but it's happened.

Wolverine has had several bad moments the past 2+ years. Namor, WWH and Skaar more recently. Rulk tossed him miles away last month. But he makes Marvel a lot of money. Of course he'll have high showings.

I just think people need to be more reasonable in the vs forum. Wolverine probably gets more hate than any other character.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Style? I rather be a bad ass then a boy scot.
To be fair, the style is more of a matter of taste. As much as I make fun of the gunface, I find it much more cool than having claws and a healing factor. The combination of shooting skills and a potent gun, for a face, makes him like White Death, who is incredibly awesome. Except on a grander scale.

Originally posted by roughrider
Sentry, Wonder Man & Gladiator have all one-shotted Wolverine. Give it up.
except not a single one of them have.........

what you just said was utterly incorrect.


Originally posted by roughrider
He's one of the most popular characters in comics, is deservedly included in the ranks of the best characters ever created, is a household name now thanks to the X-Men films...

But it doesn't make him top tier.
he was a hosuehold name before the x-men movies.



never argued him being top tier.

Originally posted by Badabing
Most popular street level and low meta level characters do well against higher tiers. It's just the way it is. Bat's, who is one of my favorites, has put down Grundy, Captain Marvel and made DS bleed. I wouldn't consider those feats "right" given power sets but it's happened.

Wolverine has had several bad moments the past 2+ years. Namor, WWH and Skaar more recently. Rulk tossed him miles away last month. But he makes Marvel a lot of money. Of course he'll have high showings.

I just think people need to be more reasonable in the vs forum. Wolverine probably gets more hate than any other character.

cosigned.

this is generalized comment not directed at any in particular

Wolverine character is designed to take it to extremely powerful mele oriented characters due to the combination of his skills, powers and weapons. He not taking it to superman or firelord, but he is able to fight characters like Hulk (though he never gunna win) and he able to beat stalemate brick like characters lacking either vast healing factor, durbaility that can withstand his claws, or range or speed he can not cope with.

Originally posted by -Pr-
facepalm
lol

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Logan was offered co leadership and turn it down. He does not want to be the leader and has lead many teams before including the original alpha flight. Style? I rather be a bad ass then a boy scot. Jean really loves Logan.


Scot more about self pitty then wolverine is.

Thus the reason why Wolvie would make an abominable leader of the X-Men. His "badass" image is more of self secluded, loner, one-man-army, rebel, and all that mumble jumble that would get in the way of the other team mates. The Boy Scout personality does wonders for leaders such as Captain America and Superman....

...Cyclops>Wolverine.

And I'm not even an Xmen fan.


*drops the mic*

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
Thus the reason why Wolvie would make an abominable leader of the X-Men. His "badass" image is more of self secluded, loner, one-man-army, rebel, and all that mumble jumble that would get in the way of the other team mates. The Boy Scout personality does wonders for leaders such as Captain America and Superman....

Actually he make a great leader, and currently and has lead countless teams. Team X, alpha flight, uncanny x-men, currently leader of black dragon, currently leader of x-force, was leader of countless special opt teams/ military campaigns. He a great leader which has been brought up a number of times by the likes of Snowbird, Mac and even cyclopes among others. He simply dislike leading teams which comes from a number of reason which difficult to understand unless you have read his comic runs.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite

...Cyclops>Wolverine.

And I'm not even an Xmen fan.


*drops the mic*
So you like cyclopes better good for you.



So your more likely to be ignorant of characters, personalities and abilities then fans of them who consistently read there stories.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
cosigned.

this is generalized comment not directed at any in particular

Wolverine character is designed to take it to extremely powerful mele oriented characters due to the combination of his skills, powers and weapons. He not taking it to superman or firelord, but he is able to fight characters like Hulk (though he never gunna win) and he able to beat stalemate brick like characters lacking either vast healing factor, durbaility that can withstand his claws, or range or speed he can not cope with. Pretty much. I hope people take notice that you said he wouldn't beat Supes, Hulk and FL too.

Heck, Ben Grimm even had a good showing a few months back against Logan. Not sure why people are all up in arms about him. He has an unbreakable skeleton, massive healing and razor sharp claws plus speed and skills. So he has good showings against some one dimensional bricks.

I think Bats and Cap get more of a pass in the vs forum. Not sure why though.

Originally posted by Badabing
Pretty much. I hope people take notice that you said he wouldn't beat Supes, Hulk and FL too.

Heck, Ben Grimm even had a good showing a few months back against Logan. Not sure why people are all up in arms about him. He has an unbreakable skeleton, massive healing and razor sharp claws plus speed and skills. So he has good showings against some one dimensional bricks.

I think Bats and Cap get more of a pass in the vs forum. Not sure why though.
As do I, though it is not very likely. They have not for the past few years it unlikely for that to change. It kinda funny though when people call me a fan boy then for example like I think wolverine takes spiderman 10/10, I think he beat Hulk/Superman ect. despite the numerous times I have said other wises lol.

Realy when was this? Dam I am slacking on my comic reading. Yea I dont get it either why everyone hates him so.


Yea I know which is so ridiculous wolverine a true meta, has blades able to cut right through almost anything, has enhanced durability/unbreakable skeleton and crazy damage soak. Yet people are more willing to give Bats and Capt the win.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Actually he make a great leader, and currently and has lead countless teams. Team X, alpha flight, uncanny x-men, currently leader of black dragon, currently leader of x-force, was leader of countless special opt teams/ military campaigns. He a great leader which has been brought up a number of times by the likes of Snowbird, Mac and even cyclopes among others. He simply dislike leading teams which comes from a number of reason which difficult to understand unless you have read his comic runs.


So you like cyclopes better good for you.



So your more likely to be ignorant of characters, personalities and abilities then fans of them who consistently read there stories.




says mister "wolverine would be a better leader"

uhuh

Originally posted by -Pr-
says mister "wolverine would be a better leader"

uhuh

Lol I never said he be a better leader, I said he be a good leader



Wolverine more of a field leader. Cyclopes has more well rounded leadership abilties. He can be both a general, but also a captain/ field commander.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Realy when was this? Dam I am slacking on my comic reading. Yea I dont get it either why everyone hates him so.
It was in the FF. The arc where future Sue comes back in time. So it was a future Logan. PM me and I'll find the issue for you tomorrow.



I do think a lot of the problems comes from Marvel. They seem to make him uber for some arcs then barely a threat in other arcs. Seems like they've started to even the character out recently. He's no longer a god-like character but still shows some good feats. I think him hurting Rulk but getting BFRed was pretty close to both of their power sets imo.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Lol I never said he be a better leader, I said he be a good leader



Wolverine more of a field leader. Cyclopes has more well rounded leadership abilties. He can be both a general, but also a captain/ field commander.

you just said it again!

Originally posted by Battlehammer
except not a single one of them have.........

what you just said was utterly incorrect.



he was a hosuehold name before the x-men movies.



never argued him being top tier.

You think I just randomly pulled those names out of the air?

Sentry subdued him in seconds during Civil War.
Gladiator smacked him out of his way in the X-Mansion during Grant Morrison's New X-Men run (Logan didn't get up to fight Glads again during that melee)
And I've seen scans in the Owned! thread that shows Wonder Man totally surprising and overwhelming Logan with just a few punches - work from Erik Larsen's Marvel days.

And no, it was the movies. Wolverine was only huge with comic fans and the hardcore scifi geek crowd. He was as largely unknown to the greater public as Iron Man was(before his movie.) People in the average household didn't know who was, not like Batman, Superman or Spider Man.

Originally posted by -Pr-
you just said it again!
lol I ment Logan is just a field leader, he leads through example and hands on. Cyclopes can be both a field leader, but also a general.

I think Wolverine's been pretty popular before the movies. But then again, a lot of the people I know grew up in the late 80's and early 90's and comic fan or not, X-Men cartoons were sooo cool.

Originally posted by roughrider
You think I just randomly pulled those names out of the air?
No I think you inaccurately remember what happened.

Originally posted by roughrider
Sentry subdued him in seconds during Civil War.
Within a few pannel, again it was not one shot.

Originally posted by roughrider
Gladiator smacked him out of his way in the X-Mansion during Grant Morrison's New X-Men run (Logan didn't get up to fight Glads again during that melee)
The fight occurred off pannel it was even implied he put up a fight, an the image we see of Logan looks of a person who was hit all over and still he was no KOed.

Originally posted by roughrider
And I've seen scans in the Owned! thread that shows Wonder Man totally surprising and overwhelming Logan with just a few punches - work from Erik Larsen's Marvel days.
Again not one shot like you originally stated. Again Logan was no KOed and had been fighting all day and was taken by surprize. If you read the issue you know he was completely fine the next page.

Originally posted by roughrider

And no, it was the movies. Wolverine was only huge with comic fans and the hardcore scifi geek crowd. He was as largely unknown to the greater public as Iron Man was(before his movie.) People in the average household didn't know who was, not like Batman, Superman or Spider Man.

Yes he was already an icon prior to the movies. he was the second most popular marvel character even before the movies. He became more popular after wards, but he was an icon before they came out.

Originally posted by -Pr-
you just said it again!

There's a reason it's called...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Wolverineandthexmenanimated.jpg

Originally posted by Battlehammer
lol I ment Logan is just a field leader, he leads through example and hands on. Cyclopes can be both a field leader, but also a general.

cutting people up =/= good example.

and cyclops is still considered the superior leader in general, no?

Originally posted by -Pr-
cutting people up =/= good example.
What do you mean here?


Originally posted by -Pr-

and cyclops is still considered the superior leader in general, no?
In comics or on the boards?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No I think you inaccurately remember what happened.


Within a few pannel, again it was not one shot.


The fight occurred off pannel it was even implied he put up a fight, an the image we see of Logan looks of a person who was hit all over and still he was no KOed.


Again not one shot like you originally stated. Again Logan was no KOed and had been fighting all day and was taken by surprize. If you read the issue you know he was completely fine the next page.



Yes he was already an icon prior to the movies. he was the second most popular marvel character even before the movies. He became more popular after wards, but he was an icon before they came out.

We seem to have different interpretations of getting one shotted. You're taking it literally; I'm using it in the sense that he gets owned in these particular fights very quickly. Hulk hasn't one shotted him - the fights are long and drawn out (because Marvel wants to see a whole issue of them fighting.)
And again, I will clarify - Wolverine has long been an icon in the comics field with fans, but that didn't mean he was well known outside the industry prior to the first film. The first animated series helped to create some more awareness, that's all. Prior to 2000, if you stopped the average person on the street and showed them a list of Marvel's 20 most popular characters, the only ones they would have been familiar with would have been Spider Man and the Hulk (and Thor possibly, but he's known from mythology.) That because of decades of exposure on TV - animated and live action - less to do with comics. Wolverine and the X-Men are just as famous now, but that's because of the movies.

Originally posted by roughrider
We seem to have different interpretations of getting one shotted. You're taking it literally; I'm using it in the sense that he gets owned in these particular fights very quickly.

Well the majority of the board says oneshotted when some one actaully been oneshotted.......which I find hard to believe your original intention was that you ment he got taken out quickly, because one can be taken otu quickly but take many shots before they go down.

Also each event had circumstances, one of which was shown off pannel and there no indication how long the fight was. Another he was taken by surprize after day of fighting and he was never KOed and he rebounded almost instantly after he stop getting hit. Sentry the only semi legit one and Logan has been damage prior to the fight and he took more then one shot and it the sentry mind you the guy who either jobbing or godly........

Originally posted by roughrider
Hulk hasn't one shotted him - the fights are long and drawn out (because Marvel wants to see a whole issue of them fighting.)
Or it because Wolverine is designed as an anti-brick to fight people jsut like the Hulk.......which he been doing consistently for decades.

Originally posted by roughrider

And again, I will clarify - Wolverine has long been an icon in the comics field with fans, but that didn't mean he was well known outside the industry prior to the first film. The first animated series helped to create some more awareness, that's all. Prior to 2000, if you stopped the average person on the street and showed them a list of Marvel's 20 most popular characters, the only ones they would have been familiar with would have been Spider Man and the Hulk (and Thor possibly, but he's known from mythology.)
I disagree, Almost everyone I new, knew the x-men and the character they associated with them was Wolverine prior to the movies. He was not as big perhaps as the others, but he was certainly an Icon and was marvel second most popular marvel character.

Originally posted by Badabing
It was in the FF. The arc where future Sue comes back in time. So it was a future Logan. PM me and I'll find the issue for you tomorrow.



I do think a lot of the problems comes from Marvel. They seem to make him uber for some arcs then barely a threat in other arcs. Seems like they've started to even the character out recently. He's no longer a god-like character but still shows some good feats. I think him hurting Rulk but getting BFRed was pretty close to both of their power sets imo.
will do thanks a lot.



I agree and disagree. he was pretty consistent. People just blow certain events out of the water. Like the only angle of death thing and healing from a skeleton, they say this make him godly. Yet it fine when DP does it. It made him no more a threat then usual, just means he was pretty dam near impossiable to kill which he always been. I think a lot of it is more the fact he so popular everything he does is viewed by the majority of the board and events are blown out of poportion due to hate towards him which further fuels it. People make such a deal about it, that it just keeps getting worses and worses. Funny though one thing I notice is in order for events/feats to be validate for wolverine compared to other characters such as say IF, DP ect. you need far more examples/scans and evidence then say other characters who do something onces and it consider usable evidence by the majority of the board due to not possesing nearly such negative agression towards them by the boards.

I agree with you on the rulk event.

Originally posted by Battlehammer


I disagree, Almost everyone I new, knew the x-men and the character they associated with them was Wolverine prior to the movies. He was not as big perhaps as the others, but he was certainly an Icon and was marvel second most popular marvel character.

Is that because the people you knew were comics fans like yourself?
If so, it's natural that he's an icon to them. Doesn't equal the world outside the comics.


You know you've made your mark in greater pop culture when you get mentioned in media unrelated to comics. Superman & Batman get referenced in many ways everyday, as does Spider Man. Thanks to decades of cartoons, Aquaman is a mocked character on Seinfeld. It's common in news reports or whatnot, when someone is losing control in some film footage to joke they're 'Hulking out'; the viewers know what is meant. And in a film like Transformers, in a room with lots of cuts in the wall, Wolverine( and Freddy Kruger) get referenced by Anthony Anderson to laughs of recognition by the audience, who know who Wolverine (and Hugh Jackman) is after three X-Men films. That's the status he has now, thanks to the films.

Receive a significant powerup.

Originally posted by roughrider
Is that because the people you knew were comics fans like yourself?
nope my friends dont like comics, even when I was a kid I new who wolverine was and this was before reading any comics or well before the movie came out.

Originally posted by roughrider

If so, it's natural that he's an icon to them. Doesn't equal the world outside the comics.
my friends dont read comics, hell my mom new who wolverine was before the movies came out amoung other adults I know for a fact did not read comics. They been shirts and shows, lunch boxes ect. of wolverine well; before the movie came out.


Originally posted by roughrider

You know you've made your mark in greater pop culture when you get mentioned in media unrelated to comics. Superman & Batman get referenced in many ways everyday, as does Spider Man. Thanks to decades of cartoons, Aquaman is a mocked character on Seinfeld. It's common in news reports or whatnot, when someone is losing control in some film footage to joke they're 'Hulking out'; the viewers know what is meant. And in a film like Transformers, in a room with lots of cuts in the wall, Wolverine( and Freddy Kruger) get referenced by Anthony Anderson to laughs of recognition by the audience, who know who Wolverine (and Hugh Jackman) is after three X-Men films. That's the status he has now, thanks to the films.

Yes he bigger now, but the fact is he was an icon prior to the movies, he was already marvel second biggest character and he was in cartoons, back packs, lunch boxes, under wear, shirts, pajama's. This was well before the movies. He was a known character. Most everyone new of the x-men prior to the movie they werent some secret, if they were why the hell would they make a movie on them? Hell there was video games, arcade games ect, of wolverine and the x-men well before the movies as well.

Well, for starters, Logan could...



































































...Beat The Punisher(for once.)

Originally posted by roughrider
Well, for starters, Logan could...



































































...Beat The Punisher(for once.)
though I know it a joke I cant help my self.

He KO punisher onces with a glancing blow.

He also left Punisher beat on the ground then pretty much call him gay and walked away with punisher on his back unable to move.

Originally posted by Battlehammer



Yes he bigger now, but the fact is he was an icon prior to the movies, he was already marvel second biggest character and he was in cartoons, back packs, lunch boxes, under wear, shirts, pajama's. This was well before the movies. He was a known character. Most everyone new of the x-men prior to the movie they werent some secret, if they were why the hell would they make a movie on them? Hell there was video games, arcade games ect, of wolverine and the x-men well before the movies as well.

Somehow I doubt your friends know so much about about Logan without looking at comics back in the day. I'm not a gamer; think I know anything about World Of Warcraft?

Prior to the first film's release, Wolverine was as well known as Iron Man. But the media buzz leading up to the Iron Man movie, was about Marvle gambling on a character 'largely unknown outside of comic circles.' Logan was once in the same position.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
though I know it a joke I cant help my self.

He KO punisher onces with a glancing blow.

He also left Punisher beat on the ground then pretty much call him gay and walked away with punisher on his back unable to move.

Just like Hulk seems to job to Logan, Marvel makes Logan job to the Punisher. They have to, because there's no reason why Logan, with thousands of death notches on his claws, should be unable to put Frank in the ground. But under Garth Ennis, Frank puts Logan down with a baseball strike in the nuts, blows his face off with a shotgun, and rolls over him with a steamroller.
Generally surviving an encounter with Logan is the same as winning, if you're non powered.

Originally posted by roughrider
Somehow I doubt your friends know so much about about Logan without looking at comics back in the day. I'm not a gamer; think I know anything about World Of Warcraft?


So much? I said they new who he ways, not like they new his entire history or anything. my friends never read comics, they all new who he was.

I dont bplay WOW nor do most of my friends, but we all been to the arcade before when we were kids and saw x-men game. We all remeber the nintendo games and comercials. As well as the shows, t shirts ect. The x-men were very well exposed well before the movies. I not sure why you dont think they were.

Originally posted by roughrider

Prior to the first film's release, Wolverine was as well known as Iron Man. But the media buzz leading up to the Iron Man movie, was about Marvle gambling on a character 'largely unknown outside of comic circles.' Logan was once in the same position.

He was, as was every character including spiderman, but he was far from being unknown prior to the x-men movies. The did not take a gamble on him, he was well known by the majority of people in USA at least. There a reason why fox bought the x-men rights, they no spend all that money on an unknown. I am sorry, but you are quite wrong and mistaken. Wolverine nor the x-men were not in the position Iron Man was prior to there movie. They were already well known character in multiable media's.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
What do you mean here?



In comics or on the boards?

if logan sets an example, it's the "don't give up no matter what" kind of thing, but even then there are other people who do it.

both?

Originally posted by roughrider
Just like Hulk seems to job to Logan, Marvel makes Logan job to the Punisher.
Hulk does not jobb to wolverine. It not even similar. Wolverine was originally designed as a Hulk villain. He designed to give Hulk like characters hell. He wont beat the Hulk, but he put up a fight and make Hulk work for it, which is what he designed to do. It far different then Punisher and Wolverine. Punisher not desgned to fight wolverine like characters, nor has punisher fought wolverine 14 plus times, like wolverine has fought the hulk. Nor did punisher first apearance a villain of wolverines.

it simply not comparable.

Originally posted by roughrider
They have to, because there's no reason why Logan, with thousands of death notches on his claws, should be unable to put Frank in the ground. But under Garth Ennis, Frank puts Logan down with a baseball strike in the nuts, blows his face off with a shotgun, and rolls over him with a steamroller.
Generally surviving an encounter with Logan is the same as winning, if you're non powered.

This is even worse, your using a single showing of punisher, compared with wolverine vast history with Hulk and brick characters, it not even closes to comparable.

Whats worse is your talking about ennis......guy who has straight up stated he hates super powered hero's and is bias against them. He also in that story had wolverine attack by a bunch of midgets trying to take off his legs.......issue was joke like most of ennis stuff.....hell ennis had punisher put spiderman in a headlock before if not mistaken......using ennis as some sort of evidence is absurd. Not to mention in the issue Punisher states he got lucky to even survive the encounter. Also Wolverine never was trying to kill him, and Punisher used plot devices and sucker attacks.......

Originally posted by -Pr-
if logan sets an example, it's the "don't give up no matter what" kind of thing, but even then there are other people who do it.

both?
So what type of example does cyclopes send? You seem from your statement to believe cyclopes example is that of one no one elese sets. you really think that wolverines entire role as a leader........





Well on the boards it would hardly matter, Logan is consider an idiot and people think jublee a better leader then him.

Cyclopes is the better super hero leader for sure. He seems to thrive off it. If Logan held an advantage in any type of leadership it be special opts type, due to the fact he has decades of experiences leading such assaults and his character is cater made for thoses type of mission.

Scot is all all round better leader, and few by the super human community as such.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
So what type of example does cyclopes send? You seem from your statement to believe cyclopes example is that of one no one elese sets. you really think that wolverines entire role as a leader........





Well on the boards it would hardly matter, Logan is consider an idiot and people think jublee a better leader then him.

Cyclopes is the better super hero leader for sure. He seems to thrive off it. If Logan held an advantage in any type of leadership it be special opts type, due to the fact he has decades of experiences leading such assaults and his character is cater made for thoses type of mission.

Scot is all all round better leader, and few by the super human community as such.

his role as leader is to command. it's to gain the respect of those around him by being a good leader. he's not a guy that people like, but he used to be the guy that embodied the "don't kill to achieve our goals" and the like. he was xavier's right hand.

logan fills a different (though no less important) role on the team.

well, jubilee aint bad.

i just think that leading any sort of unit, cyclops is superior. logan seems so much better at being allowed to run free and do his own thing. giving orders has just never struck me as being his strong suit. he's that star player that you don't tell what to do, cos you know that when he's really needed, he'll do what's required of him. he's just never going to be team captain, if that makes any sense.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Hulk does not jobb to wolverine. It not even similar. Wolverine was originally designed as a Hulk villain. He designed to give Hulk like characters hell. He wont beat the Hulk, but he put up a fight and make Hulk work for it, which is what he designed to do. It far different then Punisher and Wolverine. Punisher not desgned to fight wolverine like characters, nor has punisher fought wolverine 14 plus times, like wolverine has fought the hulk. Nor did punisher first apearance a villain of wolverines.

it simply not comparable.



This is even worse, your using a single showing of punisher, compared with wolverine vast history with Hulk and brick characters, it not even closes to comparable.

Whats worse is your talking about ennis......guy who has straight up stated he hates super powered hero's and is bias against them. He also in that story had wolverine attack by a bunch of midgets trying to take off his legs.......issue was joke like most of ennis stuff.....hell ennis had punisher put spiderman in a headlock before if not mistaken......using ennis as some sort of evidence is absurd. Not to mention in the issue Punisher states he got lucky to even survive the encounter. Also Wolverine never was trying to kill him, and Punisher used plot devices and sucker attacks.......

You know when Hulk didn't job to Wolverine, was during World War Hulk. Even holding off a couple dozen X-Men, Hulk just mercilessly pounded Logan's brain into mush, and Logan was out of it for the rest of the issue. So much for being an anti-brick in that fight.

And the Punisher also held his own against Logan in their very first meeting in 1989, in Punisher War Journal (under Carl Potts & Jim Lee.)
Neither had even met the other before, and Logan was out to kill Frank - mistaking him for a brutal poacher in Africa - but he was unable to due to Frank's quick resourcefulness. The conflict went on into the next issue until they both realized they ere on the same side.

Originally posted by roughrider
You know when Hulk didn't job to Wolverine, was during World War Hulk. Even holding off a couple dozen X-Men, Hulk just mercilessly pounded Logan's brain into mush,

Wolverine fought Hulk separately actually, and Hulk stated they could go on all day. The difference there was Hulk was not only the most powerful he been, but also possesed a tactical mind, and new Logan would try the same move his clone did. To pretend like Hulk job in the other fights is simply wrong. The other Hulks did not posses his power nor his tactical prowesses, which is what emblem him to take Logan like such. Also find this funny since Logan did better and lasted longer then almost anyone including many bricks who fought WWH.

Originally posted by roughrider

and Logan was out of it for the rest of the issue.
Also there was only a page left in the issue, juggernaut shows up and the issue ends and still we see Logan trying to get back up.

He even attempts to fight Hulk in the next issue, but his brain had not completely healed yet.

Originally posted by roughrider
So much for being an anti-brick in that fight.

Actaully he showed just why he an anti-brick he was able to take more punishment then most anyone who had fought WWH to that point. Hulks not a simple brick, he posses a massive healing factor. Logan can't beat Hulk because of this, but he can give him a fight for a bit. If another brick tried that stunt they would have lost the uses of there arm, if it was not for hulk healing factor and bulk he could never had achieve such a tactic.

Originally posted by roughrider

And the Punisher also held his own against Logan in their very first meeting in 1989, in Punisher War Journal (under Carl Potts & Jim Lee.)
Neither had even met the other before, and Logan was out to kill Frank - mistaking him for a brutal poacher in Africa - but he was unable to due to Frank's quick resourcefulness. The conflict went on into the next issue until they both realized they ere on the same side.
Notice how you left out the part that earlier in the issue wolverine KO Frank with a glancing shot.

As for the fight you are speaking off, Logan was shot prior to the engagement and the enagagement last for 3 pannels, but thanks for trying to play it off like punisher did some amazing thing.

I mean clearly Logan can't take it to bricks he only beaten herc once, stalemated Namor (who stated he bee unable to beat him if Logan was not mind controlled), then beat namor, then dropped namor twice in there next fight and took down his elite guard, he also made short work of tiger shark, beaten rough-house several times, damage Thing face so badly he wore mask for a long time and had him dead to rights, Then in another fight took Thing down in 5 pannels easily, He beaten Ba'al, Taken down wendigo and taken it to wendigo several times, taken down grey hulk, fought hulk 14 times or more, stalemated death head twice, stalemated ghost rider twice, stalemated vengeance, beat the crap out of abomination in a few pannels, one shotted Arkon, taken it to thor though not sure if thats cannon, beat the crap out of crusader, takes geneticall enahnced ape stronger then doc samson, takes down domina ect

Originally posted by Badabing
Most popular street level and low meta level characters do well against higher tiers. It's just the way it is. Bat's, who is one of my favorites, has put down Grundy, Captain Marvel and made DS bleed. I wouldn't consider those feats "right" given power sets but it's happened.

Wolverine has had several bad moments the past 2+ years. Namor, WWH and Skaar more recently. Rulk tossed him miles away last month. But he makes Marvel a lot of money. Of course he'll have high showings.

I just think people need to be more reasonable in the vs forum. Wolverine probably gets more hate than any other character. I think that making him to that level would worsen what he's supposed to be, a tough character that stands up against the odds and keeps fighting. We had a thread like this, and several characters have high showings against really high end guys. But there is a correlation between the fans and how a character is treated on the forum. Someone was arguing Wolverine stands a chance against Lobo in a couple of threads.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I mean clearly Logan can't take it to bricks he only beaten herc once, stalemated Namor (who stated he bee unable to beat him if Logan was not mind controlled), then beat namor, then dropped namor twice in there next fight and took down his elite guard, he also made short work of tiger shark, beaten rough-house several times, damage Thing face so badly he wore mask for a long time and had him dead to rights, Then in another fight took Thing down in 5 pannels easily, He beaten Ba'al, Taken down wendigo and taken it to wendigo several times, taken down grey hulk, fought hulk 14 times or more, stalemated death head twice, stalemated ghost rider twice, stalemated vengeance, beat the crap out of abomination in a few pannels, one shotted Arkon, taken it to thor though not sure if thats cannon, beat the crap out of crusader, takes geneticall enahnced ape stronger then doc samson, takes down domina ect

question. how many of those were outside of wolverine's own books?

Originally posted by -Pr-
question. how many of those were outside of wolverine's own books?
quite a few actually. Not sure why it matters though, it not one time showing or two time showing there 14 plus examples of hulk alone let a lone many other characters. I left off quite a few as well. really dont get the problem people have with him taking on bricks.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
quite a few actually. Not sure why it matters though, it not one time showing or two time showing there 14 plus examples of hulk alone let a lone many other characters. I left off quite a few as well. really dont get the problem people have with him taking bricks.

it's just the way it tends to be. in your own book you always do better than you do in other people's, unless you're someone like superman or thor (usually, anyways).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But there is a correlation between the fans and how a character is treated on the forum. Someone was arguing Wolverine stands a chance against Lobo in a couple of threads.


I disagree, it not always the cases. People were shitting on Wolverine before the idiot comments came out from people back in the day. He was generally dislike on the forum from day one. I mean I am astounded he come this far, back few years ago the majority of the board had every street leveler there was beating him. If you even thought about saying he could take a brick you be shitted on by countless people. I remeber people had a thread were he was not even ranked like top 15 in skill on the x-men team alone this was not one person it was majority of people. Deathstroke was praised on the board. Now though wolverine still disliked widely by many members at least they have grudgingly accepted that he lot higher then he was given credit back in the day on here. It funny to becuase Death stroke praises has dropped and he no longer "unbeatable" of his level. Most of the crap about him got straighten out, lot of it turned out to be non cannon feats people passed as normal reality and so on.


Lobo comments I am assuming are from a long time ago. Or a sock who purposely screwing with people.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's just the way it tends to be. in your own book you always do better than you do in other people's, unless you're someone like superman or thor (usually, anyways).
True, but to be honest wolverine done a lot better in other books lately, his own books he been beat on.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
True, but to be honest wolverine done a lot better in other books lately, his own books he been beat on.

it's just say, for example: logan fights namor in namor's book, and gets soundly beaten, and yet you're saying namor doesn't think he could beat logan.

or how about when he does so well against rulk, yet in wwh, hulk beats him handily enough.

and then there's THAT thor comic.

it's a lack of consistency. i mean, people are painting him as some kind of kryptonite to bricks now, when i don't know where that's come from.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I disagree, it not always the cases. People were shitting on Wolverine before the idiot comments came out from people back in the day. He was generally dislike on the forum from day one. I mean I am astounded he come this far, back few years ago the majority of the board had every street leveler there was beating him. If you even thought about saying he could take a brick you be shitted on by countless people. I remeber people had a thread were he was not even ranked like top 15 in skill on the x-men team alone this was not one person it was majority of people. Deathstroke was praised on the board. Now though wolverine still disliked widely by many members at least they have grudgingly accepted that he lot higher then he was given credit back in the day on here. It funny to becuase Death stroke praises has dropped and he no longer "unbeatable" of his level. Most of the crap about him got straighten out, lot of it turned out to be non cannon feats people passed as normal reality and so on.


Lobo comments I am assuming are from a long time ago. Or a sock who purposely screwing with people. Nope Lobo comments were recent. A lot of people like Wolverine. I love his team ups with Spiderman, (I love how in the New Avengers he says he has a kid and Spiderman is like, "You've had sex?" He's quite popular but so many people have supported him in so many ridiculous threads. Iceman, Godzilla, Metallo, etc. He doesn't have an auto win against a brick, he does well against them.

Yea DS was praised on the board against Flash though, Doom was overrated too. But back then people went by stats more and older feats and Wolverine was a enhanced/peak human who was fast and tough. Over time he's been said to be faster than Spiderman, high ton strength, more agile, etc etc etc. He has had some high end feats more recently though.

There are people who argued Wolverine in a Venom suit against Superman, that actually makes the character worse. I never saw a Cap vs Godzilla thread, and if there was it didn't last long. Batman was never assumed to beat any high end without "prep", those threads never lasted long. Any thread with Wolverine curbstomp or not has to go at least 10 pages. Then on top of that his name appears in thread where he has nothing to do with or is even related to any character, like Batman vs Lizard. Many of his supporters have also bashed many members and *unfortunately* have a reputation for lack of diction.

I'd say the supporters get the burn. Though I see what you mean. TMNT and SF were underrated. SF was underrated especially in Games vs back in 05 when I first showed up, now they are respected, but you do have haters because of it. Sure there were some SF fanboys but overall the characters had the feat to back them up and the vast majority of the fanboys (except 1) weren't obnoxious or fit into the category of "Wolverneiiine wns upac jp 1111" Which is where the reputation comes from.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's just say, for example: logan fights namor in namor's book, and gets soundly beaten, and yet you're saying namor doesn't think he could beat logan.

or how about when he does so well against rulk, yet in wwh, hulk beats him handily enough.

and then there's THAT thor comic.

it's a lack of consistency. i mean, people are painting him as some kind of kryptonite to bricks now, when i don't know where that's come from.
But he hasent. In a neutral book they had Namor saying he was not able to take wolverine if he was not mind controlled. Then in invadar book which is namor book he got beat by Wolverine, then in wolverine book he got beat on dropped twice on land and wolverien got the better in toney suit in the water. two seperate issues. Then in Namor book they fought, namor had to run for water. He came through the ground and surprized wolverine. So you have like 5 fights to 1.

WWH has a fast healing factor much faster then Red Hulk. Abilities make fights. WWH vast healing factor made it easier to take wolverine out who also by the way put up one of the best fights out of msot characters who face him. Red Hulk has a far slower healing factor which is why wolverien gave him trouble, however he posses greater base level strength and durability then WWH.

Yea.

It not a lack of consistency. Wolverine pretty dam consistent with the characters he beats. Namor getting an advantage one time out of 6 is far more consistent then many matches between two hero's which tend to go back and forth. Wolverine always been good against bricks. It not something new, you simply dont read him requirely. He extremely effective verse one demensional bricks. If they lack a extremely powerful healing factor and are melee orient it his bread and butter.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
But he hasent. In a neutral book they had Namor saying he was not able to take wolverine if he was not mind controlled. Then in invadar book which is namor book he got beat by Wolverine, then in wolverine book he got beat on dropped twice on land and wolverien got the better in toney suit in the water. two seperate issues. Then in Namor book they fought, namor had to run for water. He came through the ground and surprized wolverine. So you have like 5 fights to 1.

WWH has a fast healing factor much faster then Red Hulk. Abilities make fights. WWH vast healing factor made it easier to take wolverine out who also by the way put up one of the best fights out of msot characters who face him. Red Hulk has a far slower healing factor which is why wolverien gave him trouble, however he posses greater base level strength and durability then WWH.

Yea.

It not a lack of consistency. Wolverine pretty dam consistent with the characters he beats. Namor getting an advantage one time out of 6 is far more consistent then many matches between two hero's which tend to go back and forth. Wolverine always been good against bricks. It not something new, you simply dont read him requirely. He extremely effective verse one demensional bricks. If they lack a extremely powerful healing factor and are melee orient it his bread and butter.

neutral book? which one? invaders? as in, set in the 60s? yes, a wolverine book, which illustrates my point. in namor's book, he told logan he didn't want to fight, yet logan insisted, and got beaten.

in wwh, logan got smooshed, even when he was given ten times the respect and writing that almost everyone else got.

and i disagree. i read him plenty, just not his solo books where all these feats seem to happen. why aren't there more of them in x-books rather than his books?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Nope Lobo comments were recent. A lot of people like Wolverine. I love his team ups with Spiderman, (I love how in the New Avengers he says he has a kid and Spiderman is like, "You've had sex?" He's quite popular but so many people have supported him in so many ridiculous threads. Iceman, Godzilla, Metallo, etc. He doesn't have an auto win against a brick, he does well against them.

Lot of people hate him on the boards. I like the team ups as well. I like new avengers a lot to. It was my dream team for a while, but then doc strange lieft and IF and wolverine hardly in it anymore though it still a good read.

Thoses thread are mad old.

Depends on the brick to be honest, any brick with real invalnerability, high end healing factor, superior combat speed or powerful range powers either shit stomp him or he puts up a fight but has no chances of winning. However people like Thing, Ares ect. There costume made for more to beat espcially thing.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea DS was praised on the board against Flash though, Doom was overrated too. But back then people went by stats more and older feats and Wolverine was a enhanced/peak human who was fast and tough. Over time he's been said to be faster than Spiderman, high ton strength, more agile, etc etc etc. He has had some high end feats more recently though.
He was praised on the baord verse anyone. It was always his mind works to fast, he has flash like speed, and he has the strength of 100 plus men. They dident go by stats for that DS dident even have stats on him.

Wolverine was always said on the boards to be peak-human back then, which never made any senses, he never was onces even hinted as being so in the comics. Actaully it not recently, a lot of his best physical feats are from back in the day.



Originally posted by Tha C-Master
There are people who argued Wolverine in a Venom suit against Superman, that actually makes the character worse. I never saw a Cap vs Godzilla thread, and if there was it didn't last long. Batman was never assumed to beat any high end without "prep", those threads never lasted long. Any thread with Wolverine curbstomp or not has to go at least 10 pages. Then on top of that his name appears in thread where he has nothing to do with or is even related to any character, like Batman vs Lizard. Many of his supporters have also bashed many members and *unfortunately* have a reputation for lack of diction.
Again old threads, recently for the last year or more that has not been the cases. The thread being made arnt by wolverine fans. There from either people socking or looking to bait. The thread length really has nothing to do with wolverine fans asside from the correcting of others on some matter. Msot of the time people are retarded and can't see that the idiot "supporting" wolverine is a sock baiting them.

Batman vs Lizard thread another perfect example. Again wolverine fan never brought that up, though if you are one and you respond to correct them, you automatically get blamed for bringing him up yet you dident. 85% of the time wolverine threads is brought up by a non fan, and the rediculous thread being created arnt by fan either.

They bash becuase they been bash repeatedly over and over. Yet one there being bash it ok, but as soon as they say something there the bad guys. The shit been going on forever. People jump on there ban wagons, and pretend there the inncosent ones when infact they been trolling or bashing the fan. sure bashing others is not the way to go about it, but it gets tireing been trolled/bashed/even worse when you have to repeat the same shit to same person 50 times every thread. Be sides very recently I barely evenen went into threads only to say a comment or two. There a reason me/srank/jinzin are barley in threads anymore. asside from mainly the last two days for me becuase I bored as hell writing my paper.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

I'd say the supporters get the burn. Though I see what you mean. TMNT and SF were underrated. SF was underrated especially in Games vs back in 05 when I first showed up, now they are respected, but you do have haters because of it. Sure there were some SF fanboys but overall the characters had the feat to back them up and the vast majority of the fanboys (except 1) weren't obnoxious or fit into the category of "Wolverneiiine wns upac jp 1111" Which is where the reputation comes from.
that they do.

God I hate that "wolverine wns kduie" crap it annoying. It the best when your debating and bring forth prove, scans issues numbers and people respond to you like that......... it utterly annoying. what worse is when people complain about all the wolverine fans when there litterally 4 on the board that support him well now five.

People need to patention most of these threads and "wolverine fans" are sock ****ing with people, or people baiting others, or simply making stupid thread.

Shit I can't even remeber the last wolverine thread I saw a wolverine supporter asside from carver make

Originally posted by -Pr-
neutral book? which one? invaders? as in, set in the 60s? yes, a wolverine book, which illustrates my point. in namor's book, he told logan he didn't want to fight, yet logan insisted, and got beaten.

marvel comic presents, it was there first fight. Nope the invader book was set in the present.

Actaully I dident illustrate your point. The first fight was neutral book. second one was invader book which was namor team meaning namor book. third and fourth were during civil war. Last was namor book. Actaully he originally sucker punched Logan. Then Logan sucker him, he ran into the water. Which is a plot device and attacked logan from underground. The fight was stopped after Namor through him to the ground.

so nuetral book had a draw but implied wolverine would win with out mind controll

Namor team book, invaders had wolverine win

then wolverine book had him winning

then namor book had very circumstancial fight inwhich namor had the advantage.


iOriginally posted by -Pr-
n wwh, logan got smooshed, even when he was given ten times the respect and writing that almost everyone else got.
He literally foughten hulk more then any other hero. He got beat sure, but he did a lot better then most everyone elese.

iOriginally posted by -Pr-
and i disagree. i read him plenty, just not his solo books where all these feats seem to happen. why aren't there more of them in x-books rather than his books?
There are plenty in x-men books, not so much recently due to him not beeing a central figure anymore. Main reason is logan takena back seat in x-men for quite awhile he barly in it or says anything. Also how is wolverine suposes to have one on one fights in x-men books were he surrounded by a team. I know you want to some how discredit his consistent feats against brick character, but pretending like they dont matter becuase they happen in his book is just wrong.

oh and wolverine took it the red hulk is Hulk own run.
He also recently beat the shit out of deathstrike and who ever has pylocke body in uncanny x-men.
In astonishing x-men he blocked lasers with his claws.
He did pretty dam good vs omega red in uncanny x-men, better then he does in his solo.
New avenger he took down thunderball in an awosome fashion, using him a s a shield, he also has ahve his torso blown away then this crazy ass magic happen and he was the first one up and the only one not to fall.

I think it funny you assume Logan so much better in his book and that it some sorta bias sinces it his own run and thats were all his feats come from. You might want to actaully read his runs......

Originally posted by Battlehammer
marvel comic presents, it was there first fight. Nope the invader book was set in the present.

Actaully I dident illustrate your point. The first fight was neutral book. second one was invader book which was namor team meaning namor book. third and fourth were during civil war. Last was namor book. Actaully he originally sucker punched Logan. Then Logan sucker him, he ran into the water. Which is a plot device and attacked logan from underground. The fight was stopped after Namor through him to the ground.

so nuetral book had a draw but implied wolverine would win with out mind controll

you did, but not for the same reasons you think i said you did.

implying isn't exactly proof, is it?



ok, i didn't read invaders so i'll take your word for it.

i don't agree about the namor book. namor looked superior to me.

how about someone else, like, hercules. people are saying he should beat hercules. seriously? or ares?

i've even see people arguing for logan against THOR, and he's not even a brick.



that's my point. in a PIS riddled mess of a book where they make pretty much every other x-man look bad, logan still gets to do well simply because of his status.



i'm not trying to discredit anything. i just want to see it fair across the board, so don't take it as some sort of vendetta.

i simply want marvel to either put their money where their mouth is, or stop f*cking around.



exactly. the same run in which rulk beat surfer, a watcher, hulk, and thor. and yet he has trouble with wolverine. does that not show some sort of silliness on marvel's part?



i don't consider omega red a brick, but yeah, he did well.

Originally posted by -Pr-
you did, but not for the same reasons you think i said you did.

implying isn't exactly proof, is it?


Well namor said "I am not so proud that I believe I could beat wolverine if he was not more then your puppet.

Originally posted by -Pr-
ok, i didn't read invaders so i'll take your word for it.

i don't agree about the namor book. namor looked superior to me.

k


Namor looked better that book, hardly makes it inconsistent. 5 to 1 pretty dam consistent, not to mention he had to uses water to gain an advantage. water also increases his powers and heals his wounds.


Originally posted by -Pr-
how about someone else, like, hercules. people are saying he should beat hercules. seriously? or ares?
He beat herc, Thhey foguht twice, wolverine won onces, they stalemated the other.

Oh god please dont tell me your one of thoses title guys, were becuase he a god that means he automatically wins or uber. Ares feats arnt good, he low end durbaility and strength for a ehavy hitter and he also not as skilled as the name would imply. Wolverine dam sure should and would beat him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i've even see people arguing for logan against THOR, and he's not even a brick.
what was being argued was thor h2h verse wolverine. another argueing in a comic. which I was a part of and was not surprized how thor acted. He tends to quite often not utilize his abilities and simply go melee. His fights with herc are perfect example, he should wreck herc, but he doesent. No one argued that thor in a forum, battle would not destroy wolverine.



Originally posted by -Pr-
that's my point. in a PIS riddled mess of a book where they make pretty much every other x-man look bad, logan still gets to do well simply because of his status.
This annoys me, statement like this. wolverine only does good because of his status, or that it his book ect.

Logan still got beat. he also had one of the longest runnign rivaleries with Hulk, not no surprize he fights him one on one. Colossus did good as well. Wolverine claws give him the ability to damage Hulk while his healing factor lets him bang for awhile, not big surprize him and colossus were able to handle them selfs the longest since they both have the best damage soak of the team.

your mad about cyclopes lol



Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm not trying to discredit anything. i just want to see it fair across the board, so don't take it as some sort of vendetta.
Sounds like it I mean you trying to imply that he only good in his runs, as if they should be ignored becuase of that. Then you said wolverine only did good in WWH becuase of his status. Then you tried to argue that he does nothing in x-men feat wise, so forth. then the whole namor thign saying he inconsistent which could be said of any character. Wolverien tends to be very consistent on who he beats and loses too.

I dont think your intentially doing it, it just sounds that way.



Originally posted by -Pr-
exactly. the same run in which rulk beat surfer, a watcher, hulk, and thor. and yet he has trouble with wolverine. does that not show some sort of silliness on marvel's part?

Watcher does not fight, and was more one of those show how bad ass I am crap. never saw silver surfer fight, Thor beat Rulk. Rulk has the power to asorb hulks radation. Your using abc logic. Becuase he beat this guy that means he beats this guy or should. Differences wolverine has with thoses people is that he uses piercing weapons. Rulk seems to have very high durablility, but he seems to have a shitty healing factor. He never hit wolverine, he throw him.

Originally posted by -Pr-

i don't consider omega red a brick, but yeah, he did well.
red not a brick true, he so much more.


Your not going to find many wolverine vs brick fights in x-men comics, becuase the fact is be lame fight if entire x-men team attack one brick lol.

though wolverien has fought hulk 3 times in x-men stories, he also fought wendigo twice I believe in x-men stories. He also in alpha flight stories fought wendigo a few times, and also in a spiderman story.

tell you what man. instead of going round and round and round again, let's break it down.

how strong do you think logan is?
how durable do you think logan is?
how fast do you think logan is?
how potent do you think his healing factor is supposed to be?

in your opinion.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Lot of people hate him on the boards. I like the team ups as well. I like new avengers a lot to. It was my dream team for a while, but then doc strange lieft and IF and wolverine hardly in it anymore though it still a good read.

Thoses thread are mad old.

Depends on the brick to be honest, any brick with real invalnerability, high end healing factor, superior combat speed or powerful range powers either shit stomp him or he puts up a fight but has no chances of winning. However people like Thing, Ares ect. There costume made for more to beat espcially thing.


He was praised on the baord verse anyone. It was always his mind works to fast, he has flash like speed, and he has the strength of 100 plus men. They dident go by stats for that DS dident even have stats on him.

Wolverine was always said on the boards to be peak-human back then, which never made any senses, he never was onces even hinted as being so in the comics. Actaully it not recently, a lot of his best physical feats are from back in the day.




Again old threads, recently for the last year or more that has not been the cases. The thread being made arnt by wolverine fans. There from either people socking or looking to bait. The thread length really has nothing to do with wolverine fans asside from the correcting of others on some matter. Msot of the time people are retarded and can't see that the idiot "supporting" wolverine is a sock baiting them.

Batman vs Lizard thread another perfect example. Again wolverine fan never brought that up, though if you are one and you respond to correct them, you automatically get blamed for bringing him up yet you dident. 85% of the time wolverine threads is brought up by a non fan, and the rediculous thread being created arnt by fan either.

They bash becuase they been bash repeatedly over and over. Yet one there being bash it ok, but as soon as they say something there the bad guys. The shit been going on forever. People jump on there ban wagons, and pretend there the inncosent ones when infact they been trolling or bashing the fan. sure bashing others is not the way to go about it, but it gets tireing been trolled/bashed/even worse when you have to repeat the same shit to same person 50 times every thread. Be sides very recently I barely evenen went into threads only to say a comment or two. There a reason me/srank/jinzin are barley in threads anymore. asside from mainly the last two days for me becuase I bored as hell writing my paper.


that they do.

God I hate that "wolverine wns kduie" crap it annoying. It the best when your debating and bring forth prove, scans issues numbers and people respond to you like that......... it utterly annoying. what worse is when people complain about all the wolverine fans when there litterally 4 on the board that support him well now five.

People need to patention most of these threads and "wolverine fans" are sock ****ing with people, or people baiting others, or simply making stupid thread.

Shit I can't even remeber the last wolverine thread I saw a wolverine supporter asside from carver make Dude (no offense of course) Wolverine fans bash all the time, and no Lobo vs Colossus was yesterday. Wolverine made his way into the thread yet again... *sigh*.

Those ridiculous threads were throughout the times and all of his supporters supported them, all of them, not sock puppets, all of his supporters form A-Z.

Thread length does matter. What person argues Iceman vs Wolverine for 15 pages when he has not any chance whatsoever to even hurt him. Why does it matter who makes the threads? Why argue in them seriously? In Colossus vs Wolverine and Spiderman I jumped in, gave it to Colossus and left. If I feel they don't have a chance, I don't drag it on with stupid arguments. I'm going to have to start pulling up screenshots. If a bunch of idiots argue Superman vs Galactus and LT, he would get the same treatment (many people do bash Superman fans, but they are less rabid), those threads don't last more than a page and if they do, they are usually joke comments. But not Logan threads, they go on for ages and ages, when he clearly has no chance. Wolverine vs Wonder Woman (standard match, not the one I made), that one went on for ages with the same people defending him. Why? Why lower the reputation of Wolverine like that by arguing him in threads he has no chance against. Then call the smart members "morrroons" and proceed to bash them.

And no, the Wolverine supporters get away for bashing more because people feel sympathy for them. I won't say they don't get bashed, but they sure do get away with it. I've never seen a hardcore supporter banned for it.

Now if someone goes "Well for example, Wolverine is durable, but he isn't as skilled as xxx". Why does it have to get to be a huge off topic debate with Wolverine, in a nonrelated thread?

I mean Spiderman was brought up and he was a Lizard related character and there were no huge debates about him.

Every character has their ups and downs and fans, but on a consistent basis I can't imagine any character that will have at least 10 pages on a thread no matter how ridiculous except him. If people would just stop on both sides, it could improve. But to say Wolverine supporters were just easy going innocent guys is another issue entirely. Now some supporters are better than others obviously, but throughout the history on this board, I would say many of them fit that description.

Originally posted by roughrider


And the Punisher also held his own against Logan in their very first meeting in 1989, in Punisher War Journal (under Carl Potts & Jim Lee.)
Neither had even met the other before, and Logan was out to kill Frank - mistaking him for a brutal poacher in Africa - but he was unable to due to Frank's quick resourcefulness. The conflict went on into the next issue until they both realized they ere on the same side.

I keep telling people that shit.



Originally posted by kgkg
I have a question: What does Woverine have to do for you to convince you guys that he can indeed win high against top tiers?

For example what would it take for you to say he can beat Thor , Can stab Superman etc...

I know we have many non believe and skeptic when it comes to Logan but one has to ask are we going to keep ignoring comics when it comes to this guy?

for example Say Wolverine beats Firelord by stabbing him to death etc would that change anything?

He ain't beating Thor or Superman. Thor has go to many showings that suggest that he would beat the shit out of Wolverine.

Originally posted by -Pr-
tell you what man. instead of going round and round and round again, let's break it down.

how strong do you think logan is?

2 tonner. feats consistently support this. Higher when berserker.

Originally posted by -Pr-
how durable do you think logan is?
enhanced durability. He been stated with magnified durability, been stated several times with enhanced durability. His body was chemically treated during weapon x program.


Originally posted by -Pr-
how fast do you think logan is?
combat speed I assume you mean. He spiderman level, spiderman marginally faster.


Originally posted by -Pr-
how potent do you think his healing factor is supposed to be?
Pretty up there I mean he shown to be resistences to thinks Hulk has been effected by. heals damage as it been inflicted, feats supports this as does statement he made and others. However it not infinite. Damage inflicted slows it though may be marginally. Thats why circumstances of events matter a lot, becuase he not like DP who healing factor run on infinite. Also is dirrectly linked to his adrenalin which has been stated several times and shown

Originally posted by -Pr-
in your opinion.

I based that off of what he been consistently shown.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
2 tonner. feats consistently support this. Higher when berserker.


enhanced durability. He been stated with magnified durability, been stated several times with enhanced durability. His body was chemically treated during weapon x program.



combat speed I assume you mean. He spiderman level, spiderman marginally faster.



Pretty up there I mean he shown to be resistences to thinks Hulk has been effected by. heals damage as it been inflicted, feats supports this as does statement he made and others. However it not infinite. Damage inflicted slows it though may be marginally. Thats why circumstances of events matter a lot, becuase he not like DP who healing factor run on infinite. Also is dirrectly linked to his adrenalin which has been stated several times and shown



I based that off of what he been consistently shown.

and in your opinion, a two tonner whose only method of attack is physical combat should have no problems taking down people 50 times stronger than him?

Originally posted by Deadline





He ain't beating Thor or Superman. Thor has go to many showings that suggest that he would beat the shit out of Wolverine.
I agree. Forum match he shit stomp Wolverine.

Though in a comic I could see him shit stomping wolverine or it being a fight depending on what Thor shows up Thor who brawls and who herc equal or the Thor who utalizes his abilties who shit stomps wolverine all over the place.

Thor wierd becuase he either uses all his range abilities, his speed ect, but other times he shit there like common brick.

Originally posted by -Pr-
and in your opinion, a two tonner whose only method of attack is physical combat should have no problems taking down people 50 times stronger than him?


Wolverines claws are super sharp.

Originally posted by Battlehammer



Notice how you left out the part that earlier in the issue wolverine KO Frank with a glancing shot.

As for the fight you are speaking off, Logan was shot prior to the engagement and the enagagement last for 3 pannels, but thanks for trying to play it off like punisher did some amazing thing.

Why should it be mentioned - since it was failure on Wolverine's part?

He thought he killed Frank with his claws (which he was trying to do), but Frank pulled his body back enough to make it a glancing blow, faking out Wolverine. Wolverine failing to kill someone in the heat of combat - especially someone with no powers - is victory on the part of the Punisher. Because they picked up where they left off next issue.

It's rare for Logan not to truly defeat someone who's only peak human. Frank goes up there with Captain America...
...along with Cyclops, who beat Logan strictly h2h during Claremont & Byrne's Proteus storyline.

Originally posted by Deadline
Wolverines claws are super sharp.

apparently.

Originally posted by -Pr-
apparently.

Um what? Hes got millions of showings to prove it. Hes not beating Thor but hes claws are defintely super sharp.

Originally posted by Deadline
Um what? Hes got millions of showings to prove it. Hes not beating Thor but hes claws are defintely super sharp.

i thought you were making a funny. my bad.

Originally posted by -Pr-
and in your opinion, a two tonner whose only method of attack is physical combat should have no problems taking down people 50 times stronger than him?
Sounds rediculous, but when you factor in the claws it not. His claws have the ability to pierce the toughest hide. Strength aint everything. If you have the ability to withstand attacks of people 50 times your strength, but also have the ability to Bypass there durability due to your weapons it makes you quite capable. Espicially when he normally quite a bit quicker then his opponents and vastly more skilled

again remeber this is comic world. People put far to much into ones strength.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Sounds rediculous, but when you factor in the claws it not. His claws have the ability to pierce the toughest hide. Strength aint everything. If you have the ability to withstand attacks of people 50 times your strength, but also have the ability to Bypass there durability due to your weapons it makes you quite capable. Espicially when he normally quite a bit quicker then his opponents and vastly more skilled

again remeber this is comic world. People put far to much into ones strength.

the claws aren't shit without the strength behind them. it's not just comics, it's simple science, science that's usually even applied in comic books.

you can't just dismiss strength altogether.

The problem isn't strength and durability. Wolverine has what it takes to deal with people like that. Its just that characters like Thor and Superman have class 100 strength and durability and SPEED.

class 100 strength + speed = Dead Wolverine.

class 100 strength + 'normal' speed = Dead Brick.

Originally posted by Deadline
The problem isn't strength and durability. Wolverine has what it takes to deal with people like that. Its just that characters like Thor and Superman have class 100 strength and durability and SPEED.

class 100 strength + speed = Dead Wolverine.

class 100 strength + 'normal' speed = Dead Brick.

if superman just stood there and let logan wail on him for months on end, it wouldn't do shit. at all. the same should be true of thor.

Originally posted by roughrider
Why should it be mentioned - since it was failure on Wolverine's part?

Failure? he knocked Frank out........

Originally posted by roughrider
He thought he killed Frank with his claws (which he was trying to do), but Frank pulled his body back enough to make it a glancing blow, faking out Wolverine. Wolverine failing to kill someone in the heat of combat - especially someone with no powers - is victory on the part of the Punisher. Because they picked up where they left off next issue.
He got knock out and fell into a river.......far from a victory.


Originally posted by roughrider

It's rare for Logan not to truly defeat someone who's only peak human. Frank goes up there with Captain America...
Capt America an enahnced human.

Frank survived for a few seconds. Not sure what thats suposes to prove.

Originally posted by roughrider

...along with Cyclops, who beat Logan strictly h2h during Claremont & Byrne's Proteus storyline.
Actaully cyclopes only throw an unstable wolverine who was compeltely ****ed up from being mind raped. Good showing for cyclopes. Though Logan at the time had no healing factor, was not even a mutant, was prior to his development of him being MA master. oh and his claws were bionic

Originally posted by -Pr-
if superman just stood there and let logan wail on him for months on end, it wouldn't do shit. at all. the same should be true of thor.

I don't agree. I think thats being blantantly unfair, now you're just blatantly ignoring millions of showings that indicate this. Superman and Thor winning is one thing but arguing that he can't injure them is another.

However I might actually concede with Superman because guys like Thor and Hulk have shown vulnerability to sharp objects.

Originally posted by -Pr-
the claws aren't shit without the strength behind them. it's not just comics, it's simple science, science that's usually even applied in comic books.

you can't just dismiss strength altogether.

They are super sharp and hes highly skilled. As you know skill can compensate for strength alot in comics. Its highly plausible.

Originally posted by -Pr-
the claws aren't shit without the strength behind them. it's not just comics, it's simple science, science that's usually even applied in comic books.

you can't just dismiss strength altogether.
His claws are suposes to be adam sharp or something. They consistently cut through everyone, it part of there ability. You dont have to like it, but to ignore it becuase it goes against science is retarded. For starters lets talk heavy hitters fighting, if anythem hit the other they would go flying to another countery yet that does not happen. You can't pick an chioce what you apply science too.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't agree. I think thats being blantantly unfair, now you're just blatantly ignoring millions of showings that indicate this. Superman and Thor winning is one thing but arguing that he can't injure them is another.

However I might actually concede with Superman because guys like Thor and Hulk have shown vulnerability to sharp objects.



They are super sharp and hes highly skilled. As you know skill can compensate for strength alot in comics. Its highly plausible.
I agree with you. which is wierd we never agree.

superman has force field around him all the time if not mistaken that thor does not posses.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't agree. I think thats being blantantly unfair, now you're just blatantly ignoring millions of showings that indicate this. Superman and Thor winning is one thing but arguing that he can't injure them is another.

However I might actually concede with Superman because guys like Thor and Hulk have shown vulnerability to sharp objects.



They are super sharp and hes highly skilled. As you know skill can compensate for strength alot in comics. Its highly plausible.

that's why i said superman, because he has proven durability against sharp objects unless there is significant strength behind them, like doomsday's bony protrusions, and the like.

wolverine won't cut him. at all.

and no, i disagree. sure, sometimes skill can make a difference, but all the skill in the world isn't going to let you punch through a concrete wall unless you can do one of those fancy kung fu channeling tricks.

running at something and waving your arms like a lunatic isn't channeling.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
His claws are suposes to be adam sharp or something. They consistently cut through everyone, it part of there ability. You dont have to like it, but to ignore it becuase it goes against science is retarded. For starters lets talk heavy hitters fighting, if anythem hit the other they would go flying to another countery yet that does not happen. You can't pick an chioce what you apply science too.

i'm not picking and choosing, and it's not an accurate comparison. to pierce anything you still need requisite force. why don't bricks punch each other to other countries? because they're strong enough to absorb most of the blow.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I agree with you. which is wierd we never agree.

superman has force field around him all the time if not mistaken that thor does not posses.

his natural durability would protect him either way.

Originally posted by Deadline
The problem isn't strength and durability. Wolverine has what it takes to deal with people like that. Its just that characters like Thor and Superman have class 100 strength and durability and SPEED.

class 100 strength + speed = Dead Wolverine.

class 100 strength + 'normal' speed = Dead Brick.
agreed.

Originally posted by -Pr-


and no, i disagree. sure, sometimes skill can make a difference, but all the skill in the world isn't going to let you punch through a concrete wall unless you can do one of those fancy kung fu channeling tricks.


i'm not picking and choosing, and it's not an accurate comparison. to pierce anything you still need requisite force. why don't bricks punch each other to other countries? because they're strong enough to absorb most of the blow.
Normal humans in are world can punch through concrete........



Yes you are, all the strength in the world does not change your weight. You are picking and chiocing. If 100 tonner hit 600 pound 100 tonner he go flying into the next stated.

your applying real world science to one thing and not another.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Failure? he knocked Frank out........


He got knock out and fell into a river.......far from a victory.



Capt America an enahnced human.

Frank survived for a few seconds. Not sure what thats suposes to prove.


Actaully cyclopes only throw an unstable wolverine who was compeltely ****ed up from being mind raped. Good showing for cyclopes. Though Logan at the time had no healing factor, was not even a mutant, was prior to his development of him being MA master. oh and his claws were bionic

What? Complete and total lies.

Frank faked out Wolverine into thinking he killed him. He was partially saved by wearing protection.

And what is this crap about Logan not being a mutant at the time during Proteus? He's always been a mutant. He wouldn't have been sought out by Professor X in the beginning if he wasn't. His claws were shown to be part of him and not bionic early in Claremont & Cockrum's run, which was a couple years before John Byrne came on the title (shown in the issues that led to the first appearance of Phoenix.) And his time in Japan had already been established - he just hadn't told anyone specifics about how long (hadn't even reveled his name as Logan yet.)

And I thought a mentally unstable Wolverine was even more dangerous to fight - guess not.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Normal humans in are world can punch through concrete........



Yes you are, all the strength in the world does not change your weight. You are picking and chiocing. If 100 tonner hit 600 pound 100 tonner he go flying into the next stated.

your applying real world science to one thing and not another.

yes, because they have either trained to do it, are strong enough to do it.

nobody said it changes your weight. and it has happened that people have been punched/kicked massive distances. it just doesn't happen that often because with the requisite durability, you can absorb a lot of the force.

no, i'm not.

Originally posted by -Pr-

his natural durability would protect him either way.
and yet thats never the cases when wolverine cuts characters like that.

he cut him both times he fought him

Originally posted by Battlehammer
and yet thats never the cases when wolverine cuts characters like that.

he cut him both times he fought him

he cut superman?

Originally posted by -Pr-
yes, because they have either trained to do it, are strong enough to do it.

nobody said it changes your weight. and it has happened that people have been punched/kicked massive distances. it just doesn't happen that often because with the requisite durability, you can absorb a lot of the force.

no, i'm not.
actaully a lot of it has to do with speed.


yes you are picking and chiocing. Your saying Logan cutting people makes no sense due to real world science, that he does not posses enough strength.

But then ignoring real world science when in concern with hevay hitter hitting eachother. If your going to apply real world logic, you can't pick and chioce which is what you are doing.

Originally posted by -Pr-
he cut superman?
that was in responses to thor.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully a lot of it has to do with speed.


yes you are picking and chiocing. Your saying Logan cutting people makes no sense due to real world science, that he does not posses enough strength.

But then ignoring real world science when in concern with hevay hitter hitting eachother. If your going to apply real world logic, you can't pick and chioce which is what you are doing.

it can have a connection to speed, but it's not a requirement.

i'm not picking and choosing. at all.

i didn't ignore it. it's actual science that their bodies can absorb the amount of pressure to a point. bricks knock each other through buildings and across distances all the time, so no, you're the one whose picking and choosing.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
that was in responses to thor.

thought so. and no, superman's bio aura is part of his durability. it's not the totality of it. his skin would be able to resist the claws easily enough.

edit

Originally posted by Battlehammer
edit

i didn't say that. at all.

oh, editing are we? uhuh

Originally posted by -Pr-
that's why i said superman, because he has proven durability against sharp objects unless there is significant strength behind them, like doomsday's bony protrusions, and the like.

wolverine won't cut him. at all.

Ok but like I said skill can compensate for strength.

Originally posted by -Pr-

and no, i disagree. sure, sometimes skill can make a difference, but all the skill in the world isn't going to let you punch through a concrete wall unless you can do one of those fancy kung fu channeling tricks.

I don't know what to say, in comics skills are like super powers. Shang Chi has used skill to absorb a class 100 punch and smash a substance not to too far off from diamond. Temugin used skill to flip over a tank. Wolverines area of expertise are is claws.

Originally posted by -Pr-

running at something and waving your arms like a lunatic isn't channeling.


You don't need him to state that hes using skill all the time. We already know hes highly skilled. Theres tons of evidence.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok but like I said skill can compensate for strength.

and i would agree that SOMETIMES it can, but not always.



and i wouldn't mind if he showed that skill when cutting hulk or the like. but most of the time, he's just madly swinging his arms.

i don't mind him cutting someone. with the nature of his powers, that should be a given, but people arguing that he can cut deep enough with only 2 ton strength to put people like hercules, or thor down with a slash or two is just flat out ridiculous imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it can have a connection to speed, but it's not a requirement.

i'm not picking and choosing. at all.

i didn't ignore it. it's actual science that their bodies can absorb the amount of pressure to a point. bricks knock each other through buildings and across distances all the time, so no, you're the one whose picking and choosing.



thought so. and no, superman's bio aura is part of his durability. it's not the totality of it. his skin would be able to resist the claws easily enough.
strength is not a requirement either. Inorder to hit hard you dont have to be physically strong.

yes you are.

No it not science. Person thats weight 600 pounds no matter how strong body would go flying from 100 tonner shot. No amount of strength would stop it, the weight of the hit is thousands of times hard then the weight of the object being it.

How am I picking and choosing?

I agree superman can withand his claws. I never onces argued that.

But it a fact he can does and will cut heavy hitters.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i didn't say that. at all.

oh, editing are we? uhuh
you did though, but it sounded to mean and I know I am mad tired so dident want to be an ass. Becuase your a buddy of mine, if you were wrathfuldwarf however.......

Originally posted by Battlehammer
strength is not a requirement either. Inorder to hit hard you dont have to be physically strong.

yes you are.

No it not science. Person thats weight 600 pounds no matter how strong body would go flying from 100 tonner shot. No amount of strength would stop it, the weight of the hit is thousands of times hard then the weight of the object being it.

How am I picking and choosing?

I agree superman can withand his claws. I never onces argued that.

But it a fact he can does and will cut heavy hitters.

if the strength gap is big enough, then yes, you usually do.

not at all.

no no no no no. it's about energy, and the transferance of energy. if you are durable enough, regardless of your weight, you can absorb a portion of the blow. it's about energy transferrance and dissipation. it's why when superman blocked a punch from doomsday, every window within two or three blocks shattered, and a crater was created, but he didn't move. why? because his durability was sufficient to absorb and redirect the energy of the punch. that's science.

some heavy hitters, yes. with enough force to cripple them simply because they have no healing factor? then no, i don't agree.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
you did though, but it sounded to mean and I know I am mad tired so dident want to be an ass. Becuase your a buddy of mine, if you were wrathfuldwarf however.......

you don't like him?

Originally posted by -Pr-
and i would agree that SOMETIMES it can, but not always.



and i wouldn't mind if he showed that skill when cutting hulk or the like. but most of the time, he's just madly swinging his arms.

i don't mind him cutting someone. with the nature of his powers, that should be a given, but people arguing that he can cut deep enough with only 2 ton strength to put people like hercules, or thor down with a slash or two is just flat out ridiculous imo.



He using skill thats a misconception that made clear in several issues. He attacking with pin point accuracy which is why he not killing everyone he hits even though it seems like wild slashing he actaully expertly aiming for flesh wounds.

He even does it with his punches, he holds back a lot, actaully he normally is only tapping normal people when he punches, he stated few times that if he used anywere near his real strength he crush people skull killing them.



His claws are super sharp, it part of his character. He can't take down thor in a slash or two, that was made evident in there last fight. He could hurt thor, but thor durability protected him greatly. Herc on the other had not so sure, he not as powerful or as good as thor. He always been second rate next to him. Herc when they fought seem to believe Logan could do some major damage with his claws.

Originally posted by -Pr-
if the strength gap is big enough, then yes, you usually do.

not at all.

no no no no no. it's about energy, and the transferance of energy. if you are durable enough, regardless of your weight, you can absorb a portion of the blow. it's about energy transferrance and dissipation. it's why when superman blocked a punch from doomsday, every window within two or three blocks shattered, and a crater was created, but he didn't move. why? because his durability was sufficient to absorb and redirect the energy of the punch. that's science.

some heavy hitters, yes. with enough force to cripple them simply because they have no healing factor? then no, i don't agree.



you don't like him?
No it not, man there a body builders who can lift 600 pounds, but a guy who cna lift only 200 pounds can hit far harder.


dude it not science though. Your applying real world science to one and not the other. Your strength would not matter at all if you weight thousands of tiems less then the force hitting you. Wolverine claws are so sharp that the force require to pierce and object is almost none exsistent.

here another one how does namor fly? How does colossus move, he solid metal? how does iceman turn from solid ive to flesh? how does emma move is she made of diamonds? How do almost any energy weilder shot blasts with out flying bakc wards or ripping apart there body.

and yet he done this so many times, it absurd.....you cant simply ignore this........it been part of his character for decades.......(still think you clearly dislike him)



Not a fan at all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
and i would agree that SOMETIMES it can, but not always.

I agree Batman for example. However I think Wolverines done it far too many times.


Originally posted by -Pr-

and i wouldn't mind if he showed that skill when cutting hulk or the like. but most of the time, he's just madly swinging his arms.

Yeah but thats what it looks like. Hes not going to spout stab of the sleeping crane or some shit like that is he, but due to his training we can assume skill is used.

Originally posted by -Pr-

i don't mind him cutting someone. with the nature of his powers, that should be a given, but people arguing that he can cut deep enough with only 2 ton strength to put people like hercules, or thor down with a slash or two is just flat out ridiculous imo.

Thats seems pretty reasonable to me.