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Just for you, Dominic

Maul and Preston face off in the Emperor's throne room from ROTJ. The Emperor decides that Vader needs an apprentice, and let's them fight to the death to see who is Vader's new student.

Preston has been trained as a Sith and is armed with a red lightsaber, and has exceptional force powers, (For arguments sake, let's say equal to Maul's), and Maul is as he was in TPM, full of anger, and armed with his dual bladed red saber.

We have no way to guage how powerful Preston would be with the force. But I'd say as is he's more skilled with a blade.

Thread fail.


Preston cannot:

1. Use a lightsaber. It requires you to be force sensitive cept for Grieveous.
2. Use force powers. He doesn't have the force.



Going by onscreen feats AND gimping Maul by giving him just a Katana, Maul still wins, very easily. Battle pre-cog and force powers kind of win this for Maul, easily.





See...even though I am an admitted Preston fanboy, I can still be objective.

But Maul would only win due to having speed of which Preston is incapable of reacting to. Preston is the more skilled swordfighter. I'd say he's also a more skilled martial artist. But yeah, Maul wins. Not because he's better, just because he's more powerful and in a different class.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thread fail.


Preston cannot:

1. Use a lightsaber. It requires you to be force sensitive cept for Grieveous.
2. Use force powers. He doesn't have the force.



Going by onscreen feats AND gimping Maul by giving him just a Katana, Maul still wins, very easily. Battle pre-cog and force powers kind of win this for Maul, easily.





See...even though I am an admitted Preston fanboy, I can still be objective. Fail how? read the OP again, he has a saber and has Sith training. He has force powers like Maul has, in addition to his cleric training.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Fail how? read the OP again, he has a saber and has Sith training. He has force powers like Maul has, in addition to his cleric training.

Read my reply again.

The thread fails because:

"Preston cannot:

1. Use a lightsaber. It requires you to be force sensitive cept for Grieveous.
2. Use force powers. He doesn't have the force.



Going by onscreen feats AND gimping Maul by giving him just a Katana, Maul still wins, very easily. Battle pre-cog and force powers kind of win this for Maul, easily."


In other words, you broke the on-screen rule, and you gave him powers he doesn't have.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Read my reply again.

The thread fails because:

"Preston cannot:

1. Use a lightsaber. It requires you to be force sensitive cept for Grieveous.
2. Use force powers. He doesn't have the force.



Going by onscreen feats AND gimping Maul by giving him just a Katana, Maul still wins, very easily. Battle pre-cog and force powers kind of win this for Maul, easily."


In other words, you broke the on-screen rule, and you gave him powers he doesn't have. And when someone starts a thread saying "this persons sword is lightsaber resistant?" Same thing.

OK, let's do two scenarios. Scenario one is what I already posted.

Scenario two: Maul is armed with a katana and the fight takes place where Preston was surrounded at the end of "Equilibrium." No offensive force powers for Maul, just his skill with a sword.

I'd have to give Scenario 2 to Preston then.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, let's do two scenarios. Scenario one is what I already posted.

Scenario two: Maul is armed with a katana and the fight takes place where Preston was surrounded at the end of "Equilibrium." No offensive force powers for Maul, just his skill with a sword.

That breaks the rules, as well. You can't gimp these peeps. They get their on screen feats. The only exception would be alternate versions of the same character (Such as pre "The One" Neo and "The One" Neo.) In that case, you just have to state which version.

"requires you have the force"? no. boba fett and ghez hokan have both used lightsabers with boba even fighting vader briefly.

it is not "required" its just highly recommended because without the finesse given by the force its easy to hurt yourself with the weapon. the force doesnt turn on the lightsaber or anything.

Yo Dadudemon you dont need to be force sensitive to wield a saber

Originally posted by Quincy
Yo Dadudemon you dont need to be force sensitive to wield a saber


You certainly do. Even in the EU. There are very few exceptions.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
it is not "required" its just highly recommended because without the finesse given by the force its easy to hurt yourself with the weapon. the force doesnt turn on the lightsaber or anything.

Thanks for further making my point.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You certainly do. Even in the EU. There are very few exceptions.



Thanks for further making my point.

Dude Han uses one in Empire.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That breaks the rules, as well. You can't gimp these peeps. They get their on screen feats. The only exception would be alternate versions of the same character (Such as pre "The One" Neo and "The One" Neo.) In that case, you just have to state which version. Dude, read the threads here, there are CONDITIONS set in each one, get off the gimp train, it doesn't suit you.

Originally posted by Quincy
Dude Han uses one in Empire.

So, how does this prove that a non-force user can proficiently use a light-saber in bladed combat?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, read the threads here, there are CONDITIONS set in each one, get off the gimp train, it doesn't suit you.

So, you forgot about Imp saying he would close gimp threads?


Edit: Reported.

crylaugh It's not gimping, dude, that requires TAKING AWAY ones powers. If anything, what is stated here is anti gimping.

Report away, if it's closed, it's closed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So, how does this prove that a non-force user can proficiently use a light-saber in bladed combat?

Preston is a proficient swordsman. That's what I'm saying.

Han has no force sensitivity, and yet he was able to turn the blade on, as well as slice open a stomach.

Are you saying if he were to swing it at another saber, it would just turn itself off and be like "No way ***** you ain't using me."

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
crylaugh It's not gimping, dude, that requires TAKING AWAY ones powers. If anything, what is stated here is anti gimping.



"Scenario two: Maul is armed with a katana and the fight takes place where Preston was surrounded at the end of "Equilibrium." No offensive force powers for Maul, just his skill with a sword."


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Report away, if it's closed, it's closed.


I was just joking.


WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


I don't report threads just because I don't like the discussion (sick burn!)...unless it's a sock troll.

Originally posted by Quincy
Preston is a proficient swordsman. That's what I'm saying.

With a Katana.

0 training with a lightsaber..which has the pwn yourself gyroscopic effect going on. Which, almost always requires a proficient force-user to wield in combat.

Originally posted by Quincy
Han has no force sensitivity, and yet he was able to turn the blade on, as well as slice open a stomach.

Yeah, a simple cut, carefully done, with the blade directly in front of him.


Let me know when Han can go toe to toe with the Youngling that cut up all of those Storm Troopers. Then I'll agree with you.


Originally posted by Quincy
Are you saying if he were to swing it at another saber, it would just turn itself off and be like "No way ***** you ain't using me."



EXACTUHLY! dur

No.

Originally posted by dadudemon


"Scenario two: Maul is armed with a katana and the fight takes place where Preston was surrounded at the end of "Equilibrium." No offensive force powers for Maul, just his skill with a sword."





I was just joking.


WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


I don't report threads just because I don't like the discussion (sick burn!)...unless it's a sock troll. I was speaking of Preston, not Maul.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I was speaking of Preston, not Maul.

And I was speaking of Maul, not Preston after you made your gimp post about Maul.


Edit- See?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, let's do two scenarios. Scenario one is what I already posted.

Scenario two: Maul is armed with a katana and the fight takes place where Preston was surrounded at the end of "Equilibrium." No offensive force powers for Maul, just his skill with a sword. That breaks the rules, as well. You can't gimp these peeps. They get their on screen feats. The only exception would be alternate versions of the same character (Such as pre "The One" Neo and "The One" Neo.) In that case, you just have to state which version.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And I was speaking of Maul, not Preston after you made your gimp post about Maul. I'm watching porn. I win.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I'm watching porn. I win.


I actually had S33333X last night with a woman. I win.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I actually had S33333X last night with a woman. I win. S33333X? Is that the new Nissan?

Originally posted by dadudemon
With a Katana.

0 training with a lightsaber..which has the pwn yourself gyroscopic effect going on. Which, almost always requires a proficient force-user to wield in combat.



Yeah, a simple cut, carefully done, with the blade directly in front of him.


Let me know when Han can go toe to toe with the Youngling that cut up all of those Storm Troopers. Then I'll agree with you.






EXACTUHLY! dur

No.

Dude come on. You are being ridiculous.

Swinging a saber is the same as swinging a sword you nitpicking nerd.

Originally posted by Quincy
Dude come on. You are being ridiculous.

Swinging a saber is the same as swinging a sword you nitpicking nerd.


Not it is not. This is fact.

And, I am a nerd, and I'm nitpicky. But, so are you, on both accounts.

However, I don't think being a nerd is a bad thing.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Not it is not. This is fact.

How is that a fact?

Originally posted by Quincy
How is that a fact?


Cause swinging a sword is not the same as swinging a lightsaber blade. And, the reasons have already been posted.

I dunno, dude, it seems like you're just kinda doin' the straw man dance right now.

If I could make a suggestion: What if we gave Preston a cortosis blade or something else lightsaber resistant? Would that be enough to let this debate move on?

ddm is ddm. business as usual.

if ghez hokan can use a lightsaber with zero training and skill preston sure as hell can especially considering preston at the least has sword training whereas ghez does not.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I dunno, dude, it seems like you're just kinda doin' the straw man dance right now.

Not at all. What I am saying is fact. What everyone else is saying is "strawman." (BTW, no one is using a strawman argument.)



Originally posted by XanatosForever
If I could make a suggestion: What if we gave Preston a cortosis blade or something else lightsaber resistant? Would that be enough to let this debate move on?


We could do that. I don't see any problems there. It doesn't break the rules, either.


But we cannot allow people to use a lightsabers in bladed combat if they are non-force users that have no training with a lightsaber (cause, it can be learned by a very few exceptional users), or even an untrained force user.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
ddm is ddm. business as usual.

if ghez hokan can use a lightsaber with zero training and skill preston sure as hell can especially considering preston at the least has sword training whereas ghez does not.


Canon is allowable.

That happens to be a massively short list: Grievous.


And, please don't try to start anything between us. I don't want to argue or fight with you.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I dunno, dude, it seems like you're just kinda doin' the straw man dance right now.

If I could make a suggestion: What if we gave Preston a cortosis blade or something else lightsaber resistant? Would that be enough to let this debate move on? Good idea, done.

Excellent. In this case, I think I'd have to give Maul the edge, if only because I don't think Preston would be well schooled in dealing with double bladed combat. Dual wielding, probably, but double blade changes the dynamics significantly. That being said, if Preston can get past Maul's defenses, I think it could be over quickly.

Making Preston a gay-ass Force user is lame, he already has powers per se, his Grammaton training.

Having said that, that's not going to cut it against Force-precog, combined with an excellent swordsman. Preston would last a bit, then Maul would cut his shit.

Originally posted by Robtard
Making Preston a gay-ass Force user is lame, he already has powers per se, his Grammaton training.

Having said that, that's not going to cut it against Force-precog. He's last a bit, then Maul would cut his shit.

You mean push in his sh1t?

Originally posted by Robtard
Making Preston a gay-ass Force user is lame, he already has powers per se, his Grammaton training.

Having said that, that's not going to cut it against Force-precog, combined with an excellent swordsman. Preston would last a bit, then Maul would cut his shit. Mhm, what Cheech said.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cause swinging a sword is not the same as swinging a lightsaber blade. And, the reasons have already been posted.

I've read the entire thread again, you give no reasons why a Saber can't be weilded by anybody but a force-sensitive person.

That's already factually incorrect, since everyone knows that Han used a saber. Why are you arguing with this?

DDM is right. A plasma blade weighs nothing, it's entirely different than swinging a katana or a regular sword.

Han turned it on and sliced open a Taun Taun, he didn't handle it in a duel, bad example. And if I recall correctly, he looked a bit akward handling it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
DDM is right. A plasma blade weighs nothing, it's entirely different than swinging a katana or a regular sword.

Han turned it on and sliced open a Taun Taun, he didn't handle it in a duel, bad example. And if I recall correctly, he looked a bit akward handling it.

Holding it weighs less sure. And the blade itself is different sure, but no - that doesn't mean Preston, or anyone for that matter - can't use one.

Just saying, Preston handling a katana, then putting the katana down and picking up a lightsaber, there's a huge difference.

So you are coming in just to say that a katana and a lightsaber aren't the same?

They are the same basic weapon, but at the same time entirely different. I thought that's what we were discussing?

Why do you do this? If he's been trained in those aspects then it's not actually John Preston is it? You'd be as well saying Elmo vs Darth Maul where Elmo has been trained as a Sith and has force powers equal to Maul.

Actually that'd be ****in' class. Darth Elmo.

http://darth.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Elmo

But that'd just be silly.

Yep...So is giving powers to characters who don't actually have them. Thus making them inherently different and completely nullifying the comparison between the 2 characters.

If you can't make a thread that doesn't involve drastically changing a character's ability from what is shown in their respective film in order for them to have a chance at winning/being beaten then don't bother making it in the 1st place.

pm Impediment, if he thinks the thread is out of order, then he'll close it. But then he'd have to close like half the threads here.

BTW: It'd be easier to discuss a new scenario, you know, instead of bitching and moaning about it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

BTW: It'd be easier to discuss a new scenario, you know, instead of bitching and moaning about it.

Or we can just accept the Preston's good, but he's no match for a Force using, lightsabre wielding, mothering ****ing Sith assassin like Darth Maul and move on.

You think Maul is faster?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You think Maul is faster?

He should be, with the Force and shit.

Going off screen-feats, Preston is a bit faster, but not fast enough to trump the precog.

How about this scenario:

Preston enters a wormhole and is dropped into the SW universe, and encounters Maul. They fight. Maul decides to engage with no offensive force powers, and Prestons sword is made of cortosis.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How about this scenario:

Preston enters a wormhole and is dropped into the SW universe, and encounters Maul. They fight. Maul decides to engage with no offensive force powers, and Prestons sword is made of cortosis.

Originally posted by Robtard

Going off screen-feats, Preston is a bit faster, but not fast enough to trump the precog.

Well, as we have all seen in the SW movies, precog is not infallible.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well, as we have all seen in the SW movies, precog is not infallible.

You're right, it's one of the many reason why someone of Spiderman's capabilities rips a Jedi a new *******.

But Preston simply isn't fast.

You just love doing that, dont you.

BTW, a Jedi's precog was shown as faulty ONLY when facing another force user.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You just love doing that, dont you.

BTW, a Jedi's precog was shown as faulty ONLY when facing another force user.

And being shot by regular smucks and retard droids, you mean, right?

Retard droids? You mean Genosis? Because the Jedi were incredibly outnumbered there, they fell due to sheer numbers. What regular smucks? The clones? Because the force was hazy due to Sidious, remember?

That still counters your "only by another force user" argument. These do too:

-Fishface was shot by Jango; it was 1 on 1.

-Conehead wasn't shot in the back, he saw the attack coming; tried to defend himself, but 4 Clones overpowered his precog.

"Fishhead" was facing Dooku and Jango. He had to pay attention to both, or he risked getting cut down by Dooku.

Ki Adi Mundi fell due to sheer numbers.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
pm Impediment, if he thinks the thread is out of order, then he'll close it. But then he'd have to close like half the threads here.



Yeah....Most of them are yours...Go figure.



Or you could just learn a lesson and not make threads that make you look like an idiot.

haermm K.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
"Fishhead" was facing Dooku and Jango. He had to pay attention to both, or he risked getting cut down by Dooku.

Ki Adi Mundi fell due to sheer numbers.

Na. His full attention was on Jango, Dooki didn't budge for a moment.

There were 4 clones.

No amount of SW-foolery will overcome what was shown on screen.

And if he ful engaged Jango, Dooku woulda cut him down, simple.

4 Clones firing on him with full auto blaster fire.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And if he ful engaged Jango, Dooku woulda cut him down, simple.

4 Clones firing on him with full auto blaster fire.

Are you actually trying to argue that he let himself get shot, as to not arouse Dooku into attacking? Nonsense. Proof is there, Jango (a non-Force sensitive) killed a Jedi, 1 on 1, it can be done.

Again, dispels the "only a Force-user can counter the Force-precog". Conehead was a high ranking Jedi with great power, he still got killed by 4 (or was it 3?) non Force-users. It happens.

Edit: What of the Jedi Grevious killed? He had 4 sabres as trophies. More possible proof. Check and mate, sir.

Fishhead made a split second decision, he made a choice, man. IF he advanced on Jango, you think Dooku woulda just stood there?

Yeah, it happens, even Jedi have limits.

Grievous was a four saber wielding machine of blurry death, dude, bad example.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Fishhead made a split second decision, he made a choice, man. IF he advanced on Jango, you think Dooku woulda just stood there?

Yeah, it happens, even Jedi have limits.

Grievous was a four saber wielding machine of blurry death, dude, bad example.

Fishface blocked several hits before he fell, he was trying his hardest to stay alive. This is just a fact you have to accept.

Exactly, and non-Force users can counter the Force-precog. Not sure why you're arguing otherwise.

Na. He's a non-Force user. It still applies.

He blocked two I think.

Sheer numbers can overwhelm even the most powerful force user.

And he was way faster than a human. And stronger.