The Borg VS The Empire

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bayhunter12
All out war.




WHO WINS?????

Robtard
The Borg with their millions of cubes, billions of drones and adaptive technology.

jaden101
Hahaha...Here we go again.

Shakyamunison
If the Borg assimilated the cloning technology, then they could clone as many drones as they needed.

Robtard
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If the Borg assimilated the cloning technology, then they could clone as many drones as they needed.

They already can grow their own units in incubators. As seen in the show.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Robtard
They already can grow their own units in incubators. As seen in the show.

Ya, that is one of those things that is unclear in Star Trek. The Borg seemed to change from NG to Voyager.

Robtard
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ya, that is one of those things that is unclear in Star Trek. The Borg seemed to change from NG to Voyager.

Not so sure. Stands to reason they could add to their numbers by assimilating and breeding their own in incubation chambers, maximising their numbers

Jedireaper
The Empire would win, Darth Vader and The Emperor would kill all the Borg.

jaden101
Originally posted by Jedireaper
The Empire would win, Darth Vader and The Emperor would kill all the Borg.

If Vader and Palpatine could kill trillions of Borg they would've made very short work of a couple of hundred rebels...They didn't.

Dr Will Hatch
Originally posted by jaden101
If Vader and Palpatine could kill trillions of Borg they would've made very short work of a couple of hundred rebels...They didn't. LUKE IS THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN HISTORY. OF COURSE THE EMPIRE LOST.


All the Emperor has to do is conjure up a worm hole, and bye bye Borgie.

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
LUKE IS THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN HISTORY. OF COURSE THE EMPIRE LOST.


All the Emperor has to do is conjure up a worm hole, and bye bye Borgie.
They can close it with a beam.

Tenebrous
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
LUKE IS THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN HISTORY. OF COURSE THE EMPIRE LOST.


All the Emperor has to do is conjure up a worm hole, and bye bye Borgie. Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
They can close it with a beam.
Exactly. laughing

BruceSkywalker
the borg tells the empire " resistance is futile"

Robtard
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
LUKE IS THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN HISTORY. OF COURSE THE EMPIRE LOST.


All the Emperor has to do is conjure up a worm hole, and bye bye Borgie.


Except Luke didn't do much of anything, except beat a father who wasn't trying to kill him in the first place. He also got his ass kicked by a decrepit old man afterwards and daddy had to save him.

No, don't be such a silly SW bastard.

Sadako of Girth
How likely is it that Vaders mindtricking the queen of the collective could work..? (Rellying on the mindtrickery effectiveness filtering down through the ranks below her.)

'cause thats about all I got in the SW side's defence right now.

-Pr-
how is he going to trick a cybernetic mind?

Robtard
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
How likely is it that Vaders mindtricking the queen of the collective could work..? (Rellying on the mindtrickery effectiveness filtering down through the ranks below her.)

'cause thats about all I got in the SW side's defence right now.

The strong willed can overcome a mind-trick, right?

If so, I'd argue the Borg Queen who keeps mental control over billions of drones has a very strong mind/will.

Sadako of Girth
Sounds reasonable to me...

Its a fair cop, guv.
Sounds, then, like ze clones get all assimilated up the bot-bot.

Tattoos N Scars
An assimilated Palpatine would be interesting to see though..lol.

Hewhoknowsall
Empire: 2.4 million megaton weapons
Borg: got damaged by 1160 megaton weapons

Also, the borg couldn't consistently hit starships at 5 mile ranges, so I don't see how they could hit starfighters moving far faster from farther away.

Also, 100 quadrillion civilians.

And what about the sun crusher?

Oh, and also, star destroyers fought in ranges of thousands of miles. In many fights the borg fought in ranges of 5 miles.


duhduhduhduhduh

Robtard
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
An assimilated Palpatine would be interesting to see though..lol.

The medichlorians would be an unknown factor, as the Borg do assimilate and utilize DNA, so could there be force-using Drones? Possible, but pure speculation.

The Nuul
The Borg win by taking over their tech and assimilating the crews.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by The Nuul
The Borg win by taking over their tech and assimilating the crews.

What is it with you people thinking that the borg can automatically assimilate anything?

Does being able to assimilate 15 billion gigawatt power tech equate to being able to assimilate 200 trillion gigawatt power tech?

Robtard
Originally posted by The Nuul
The Borg win by taking over their tech and assimilating the crews.

Word.

The Nuul
The Borg now have their own 200 trillion gigawatt power tech. Heh.

Robtard
Originally posted by The Nuul
The Borg now have their own 200 trillion gigawatt power tech. Heh.

Borg don't assimilate everything into the collective, so there are some things they wouldn't assimilate from Star Wars, like those cannons that require a gunner to aim and fire.

Though I do understand why Lucas took this look, he likes mixing hi-tech with old themes.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
What is it with you people thinking that the borg can automatically assimilate anything?

Does being able to assimilate 15 billion gigawatt power tech equate to being able to assimilate 200 trillion gigawatt power tech?

all they have to do is assimilate one engineer who understand said tech.

i can't believe you're still trying to portray those numbers as canon.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by -Pr-


i can't believe you're still trying to portray those numbers as canon.

How are they not canon?

One was from a canon reference guide from Star Wars.
Another was stated on screen.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
How are they not canon?

One was from a canon reference guide from Star Wars.
Another was stated on screen.

and they've both been contradicted by more numerous events on screen.

The Nuul
Originally posted by Robtard
Borg don't assimilate everything into the collective, so there are some things they wouldn't assimilate from Star Wars, like those cannons that require a gunner to aim and fire.

Though I do understand why Lucas took this look, he likes mixing hi-tech with old themes.

Arent the Borg smart enough to man that gun once assimilated?

Robtard
Originally posted by The Nuul
Arent the Borg smart enough to man that gun once assimilated?

Human targeting would considering low-tech, compared to computer targeting. But the mental picture of a Borg in said cannon looks awesome.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by -Pr-
and they've both been contradicted by more numerous events on screen.

Name one source that contradicts the 2.4 million megaton figure.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Name one source that contradicts the 2.4 million megaton figure.

which one is that?

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by -Pr-
which one is that?

The one for Star Wars.

The Nuul
Originally posted by Robtard
Human targeting would considering low-tech, compared to computer targeting. But the mental picture of a Borg in said cannon looks awesome.

If they Borg assess the tech and finds out its worth adding to their own, why not go for it?

Robtard
Originally posted by The Nuul
If they Borg assess the tech and finds out its worth adding to their own, why not go for it?

Well yes, anything deemed of technological or biological value would.

I was just saying in the broader term, that not everything would be.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The one for Star Wars.

i was asking the context.

The Nuul
Originally posted by Robtard
Well yes, anything deemed of technological or biological value would.

I was just saying in the broader term, that not everything would be.

No problemo.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by -Pr-
i was asking the context.

The figure was from a canon Star Wars reference book.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The figure was from a canon Star Wars reference book.

good lord.

2.4 million megatons of what? an explosion? a blast from a turbo laser? what?

The Nuul
Originally posted by -Pr-
good lord.

2.4 million megatons of what? an explosion? a blast from a turbo laser? what?

Chewbacca's fart.

Robtard
Originally posted by The Nuul
Chewbacca's fart.

The Borg would definitely assimilate that.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by -Pr-
good lord.

2.4 million megatons of what? an explosion? a blast from a turbo laser? what?

From a blast from a heavy turbolaser.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
From a blast from a heavy turbolaser.

a blast that can't even destroy a comparable ship at close range even when the shields are down?

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by -Pr-
a blast that can't even destroy a comparable ship at close range even when the shields are down?

When did that happen?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
When did that happen?

revenge of the sith, a new hope, jedi etc.

it takes multiple hits to destory enemy ships, the same metals that can't even stand up to asteroid/starfighter impacts.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by -Pr-
revenge of the sith, a new hope, jedi etc.

it takes multiple hits to destory enemy ships, the same metals that can't even stand up to asteroid/starfighter impacts.

1. The armor appears to contain the blast; there are many sources where a turbolaser would hit a target such as a Star Wars skyscraper and the building would burst into flames, such as in a cutscene in KOTOR (the cutscenes are pretty much canon although the gameplay isn't, and that was from a turbolaser thousands of years less advanced than, say, LOTF turbolasers). Remember how tall those buildings were in AOTC? They were HUGE.

2. How do you know that the ships weren't shielded?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
1. The armor appears to contain the blast; there are many sources where a turbolaser would hit a target such as a Star Wars skyscraper and the building would burst into flames, such as in a cutscene in KOTOR (the cutscenes are pretty much canon although the gameplay isn't, and that was from a turbolaser thousands of years less advanced than, say, LOTF turbolasers). Remember how tall those buildings were in AOTC? They were HUGE.

2. How do you know that the ships weren't shielded?

the metal is strong enough to contain that kind of energy, but can't survive meteor/statrfighter impacts?

they were shielded when they were hit and destroyed? that just makes it worse.

if you mean during the firefights, in ROTS we saw actual blasts hit cruisers that weren't shielded and they weren't destroyed.

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
What is it with you people thinking that the borg can automatically assimilate anything?

Does being able to assimilate 15 billion gigawatt power tech equate to being able to assimilate 200 trillion gigawatt power tech?
I don't think they've ever been able to not assimilate tech. The only trouble they had was with Species 8472 but that was because of their crazy immune system. Those guys never call in sick.

It only occurred to me just this instant that they were defeated when the Voyager crew created the technological equivalent of AIDS torpedoes.

jaden101
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
AIDS torpedoes.

They should make those.

The Nuul
Originally posted by jaden101
They should make those.

I got your AIDS Torpedo right here.....

Oh, wait NVM!

no expression

Omega Vision
The Empire's scale might prove the largest challenge for the Borg. In a straight military confrontation with all the Cubes vs all the Star Destroyers the Borg would probably win.

Remember that the Borg are stated to be "thousands of centuries" old. Its more or less assumed they originated within the Milky Way, specifically the Delta Quadrant. Given that it has taken them so long to assimilate only a small portion of the Galaxy (they haven't even completely subjugated their home Quadrant) I think its ludicrous to say they could completely dominate the Empire.

They work slowly for the most part and someone like Palpatine would be able to devise a plan to defeat the Borg before the Empire would get overrun.

-Pr-
The new origin from the books wasn't bad. I wish they'd use that.

jaden101
On a related note. I invented a mixed shot in the pub tonight and I named it an AIDS torpedo.

-Pr-
Originally posted by jaden101
On a related note. I invented a mixed shot in the pub tonight and I named it an AIDS torpedo.

the ingredients?

Robtard
Originally posted by -Pr-
the ingredients?

4/5 Jaden's semen

1/5 tears

jaden101
Originally posted by -Pr-
the ingredients?

It had Jagermeister and Absinthe along with 2 other things which were yellow and green although I can't remember what they were.

Topped with a slice of lime sprinkled with brown sugar and soaked in Absinthe and then set on fire.

Blow out the flame....down the shot....bite the lime....get drunk.

jaden101
Originally posted by Robtard
4/5 Jaden's semen

1/5 tears

Nah that one's called "Rogue Jedi's mum's face".

-Pr-
Originally posted by jaden101
It had Jagermeister and Absinthe along with 2 other things which were yellow and green although I can't remember what they were.

Topped with a slice of lime sprinkled with brown sugar and soaked in Absinthe and then set on fire.

Blow out the flame....down the shot....bite the lime....get drunk.

laughing out loud

how very data of you.

kudos if you get the reference.

InfernoJG95
Dam why does Borg always got to be a part in these things what about Q huh well star wars has chuck Norris let's see the Borg assimilate him huh

Omega Vision
Originally posted by InfernoJG95
Dam why does Borg always got to be a part in these things what about Q huh well star wars has chuck Norris let's see the Borg assimilate him huh
no expression

bloodoverme
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The Empire's scale might prove the largest challenge for the Borg. In a straight military confrontation with all the Cubes vs all the Star Destroyers the Borg would probably win.

Remember that the Borg are stated to be "thousands of centuries" old. Its more or less assumed they originated within the Milky Way, specifically the Delta Quadrant. Given that it has taken them so long to assimilate only a small portion of the Galaxy (they haven't even completely subjugated their home Quadrant) I think its ludicrous to say they could completely dominate the Empire.

They work slowly for the most part and someone like Palpatine would be able to devise a plan to defeat the Borg before the Empire would get overrun.

good point

bloodoverme
Originally posted by InfernoJG95
Dam why does Borg always got to be a part in these things what about Q huh well star wars has chuck Norris let's see the Borg assimilate him huh

if the borg manages to assimilate chuck norris then they win 100%.

CHUCK NORRIS DRONE soloes the empire. LOL

forget that, CHUCK NORRIS DRONE soloes the star wars universe. ROTFL !!!

However the borg collective can't assimilate Chuck Norris, NOBODY assimilates the chuck norris. LOL

mayberry
The Borg,, next question

Acrosurge
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The Empire's scale might prove the largest challenge for the Borg. In a straight military confrontation with all the Cubes vs all the Star Destroyers the Borg would probably win.

Remember that the Borg are stated to be "thousands of centuries" old. Its more or less assumed they originated within the Milky Way, specifically the Delta Quadrant. Given that it has taken them so long to assimilate only a small portion of the Galaxy (they haven't even completely subjugated their home Quadrant) I think its ludicrous to say they could completely dominate the Empire.

They work slowly for the most part and someone like Palpatine would be able to devise a plan to defeat the Borg before the Empire would get overrun. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the Delta Quadrant is home to many species even more technologically advanced than the Federation. Such species had superior cloaking, ridiculously fast star travel, and even temporal manipulation technology, which slowed the Borg down considerably. As for the species they haven't subjugated yet, the Borg simply don't consider them worth assimilating. Remember, the Borg goal is not to assimilate the entire galaxy, but to strategically add superior races to their collective.

The Empire's large number of planets really wouldn't be an asset at all. If the Borg wanted a full scale invasion (thousands of Cubes dedicated to an assault), the Empire would fall pretty quickly as they don't have the technological defenses of the species that have successfully evaded the Borg in the Delta Quadrant. Its likely the Borg would go straight for Coruscant and work their way out from there. No technology thus far demonstrated in the canon SW universe suggests that the Empire could repel an invasion of that magnitude, especially when the capital planet appears to be unshielded (ref. Revenge of the Sith).

Kinasin
The Empire with ease.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
The Borg with their millions of cubes, billions of drones and adaptive technology.


You mean billions of cubes and trillons and trillions of drones... lol


Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
All the Emperor has to do is conjure up a worm hole, and bye bye Borgie.

You're right: no starship has ever faced a blackhole and lived to tell that tale. Wait, they have: a couple of times in TOS and several times in TNG. erm

And, as my homie indicates, they can just close it with a beam like they did in TNG.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch



All the Emperor has to do is conjure up a worm hole, and bye bye Borgie.


i don;t think there are worm holes in the star wars universe..

besides palpatine prolly don't even know how to

McRoyale
I'd like to breathe fresh air in this debate.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
The Empire's large number of planets really wouldn't be an asset at all.

Right, because logistical and industrial capacity means nothing at all in a war.



The Borg couldn't even successfully invade the Federation. What makes you think they can successfully invade a Type III civilisation that has most of the galaxy's resources under its control?

The Empire's firepower is of far greater magnitude than the Federation, and even they could still damage Borg ships.



Yeah, like an armada isn't going to wait for them. They're just going to sit there and let them go to the Empire's homeworld, and not deploy things like Interdictor cruisers. That is assuming the Borg can actually get there in the first place.



Planetary shields exist in the SW universe. Read the Thrawn trilogy, or the NJO saga, or the X-wing books where the Rebel Alliance disable them. And before you say "they're not canon", EU books are regarded as canon per official policy unless contradicted by a higher source (the movies). But if you want a source from the movies, I would like to point to you moments before Alderraan is destroyed by the Death Star. You can clearly see a planetary shield absorbing a fraction of the blast before the planet is destroyed. Also, in TESB, Hoth had a planetary shield generator to prevent the Imperial fleet from bombarding the Rebel base.

Are you saying the most important planet in the galaxy, the homeworld of the Old Republic/Empire does not have one of these? Yet a core planet does? Even a backwater planet, where planetary shielding was set up at a pinch? And I can give you another canonical source for something similar - the DS II. It is the size of a small moon yet the Empire had the technology to create a shield around it that is impenetrable to fleet bombardment.

Right, so the Borg reach Coruscant - and get utterly wiped out by the thousands of defensive turrets, and the mass of military ships waiting for them. Considering how poor Borg tactics are time and time again (ie. fleet manoeuvres), they will be massacred. And even if the Borg somehow wipe out all these ships and defensive installations, how are they going to get through the planetary shielding?

McRoyale
Originally posted by dadudemon
You mean billions of cubes and trillons and trillions of drones... lol


Source? Did you just make that number up?

The Borg don't even control their entire quadrant.

zeel
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
From a blast from a heavy turbolaser.


I remember the falcon taking a hit from a turbolaser and doing just fine.

-Pr-
Originally posted by McRoyale
Source? Did you just make that number up?

The Borg don't even control their entire quadrant.

Pretty sure they mentioned it in Voyager at some point.

Robtard
LoL, another HWKA sock.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Pretty sure they mentioned it in Voyager at some point.

Season 3 Episode 26: "Scorpion"

Darth Jello
So the Borg is facing an enemy that controls the better part of a galaxy and two dwarf galaxies. The enemy has countless troops consisting primarily of indoctrinated volunteers and a virtually endless number of clones. The enemy lags behind in medical technology and shielding but is capable of using incredibly powerful exotic energy weapons and uses a method of propulsion that makes their ships many hundreds of thousands of times faster and more maneuverable than the Borg without the aid of a wormhole generating, cross-galactic network. Many of the ships also dwarf the largest cubes. Said enemy also exists within an area of space bound by a mystical energy field that its two cult-rulers can manipulate with ease, giving them the ability to physically manipulate star ships and create cosmic storms with a gesture....

MF DELPH
^Borg ftw.

jaden101
Originally posted by McRoyale
I'd like to breathe fresh air in this debate.



Right, because logistical and industrial capacity means nothing at all in a war.



The Borg couldn't even successfully invade the Federation. What makes you think they can successfully invade a Type III civilisation that has most of the galaxy's resources under its control?

The Empire's firepower is of far greater magnitude than the Federation, and even they could still damage Borg ships.



Yeah, like an armada isn't going to wait for them. They're just going to sit there and let them go to the Empire's homeworld, and not deploy things like Interdictor cruisers. That is assuming the Borg can actually get there in the first place.



Planetary shields exist in the SW universe. Read the Thrawn trilogy, or the NJO saga, or the X-wing books where the Rebel Alliance disable them. And before you say "they're not canon", EU books are regarded as canon per official policy unless contradicted by a higher source (the movies). But if you want a source from the movies, I would like to point to you moments before Alderraan is destroyed by the Death Star. You can clearly see a planetary shield absorbing a fraction of the blast before the planet is destroyed. Also, in TESB, Hoth had a planetary shield generator to prevent the Imperial fleet from bombarding the Rebel base.

Are you saying the most important planet in the galaxy, the homeworld of the Old Republic/Empire does not have one of these? Yet a core planet does? Even a backwater planet, where planetary shielding was set up at a pinch? And I can give you another canonical source for something similar - the DS II. It is the size of a small moon yet the Empire had the technology to create a shield around it that is impenetrable to fleet bombardment.

Right, so the Borg reach Coruscant - and get utterly wiped out by the thousands of defensive turrets, and the mass of military ships waiting for them. Considering how poor Borg tactics are time and time again (ie. fleet manoeuvres), they will be massacred. And even if the Borg somehow wipe out all these ships and defensive installations, how are they going to get through the planetary shielding?

There's nothing fresh about any of your arguments. In DS9 the starfleet vessel USS defiant, which is a relatively weak ship in Trek terms, was stated to be able to turn a planet to a cinder in minutes. something it takes many Star Destroyers hours or even days to do when enacting a Base Delta Zero protocol. A small fleet of Romulan ships took but a few seconds to destroy half a planet in an attempt to kill the Dominion leaders.

The Borg are vastly more powerful. And even if all else fails they can just do what they did in First Contact and time travel to when the SW galaxy was weak as piss and assimilate them all.

Robtard
Don't even have to destroy planets, a garden variety warship in Star Trek can in less than a minute destroy the atmosphere of a planet thereby making it uninhabitable and killing life.

Happened in The Chase, ST:TNG.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
Don't even have to destroy planets, a garden variety warship in Star Trek can in less than a minute destroy the atmosphere of a planet thereby making it uninhabitable and killing life.

Happened in The Chase, ST:TNG.

To add, Riker commented that the Enterprise D was enough to vaporize all the way through the entire crust of a planet with only a few hours of effort.

the ninjak
My moneys on the Borg.

Star Wars has all that fodder. And they will all be assimilated.

dadudemon
This thread needs an update.


The Borg are depicted in a much rawer state in Enterprise than the other shows. They start from, literally, dead bodies and become destruction machines by the end of the episode. They just have to inject their nano-bots into the circuitry and it immediately starts to assimilate the entire ship. The nanobots start creating, quickly, machines, circtuits, and so forth that the Borg will use to upgrade the ships it assimilates.


In the episode where the Borg are shown in Enterprise, they are found, dead, broken, and frozen. As they thaw out, the nanobots slowly begin to repair and revive the drones. They drones come alive and assimilate an old ship that is capable of a max warp speed of 1.5. By the end of the episode, the ship has been upgraded to sustain a warp faster than warp 5. It increased in mass, as well (3%). So, somewhere, they can collect matter and improve that ship. You get that advantage when you have energy to matter and matter to energy converters (transporters and replicators).

Transporting through shields can be done by the Borg, as well. One drone is all it takes to destroy a Death Star or any Empire ship.

juggernaut74
So how do the Trekkies feel about JJ Abrams being reported to be the director of the new Star Wars films?

Robtard
Glad he's taking it on. Loved what he did with Star Trek. Look forward to seeing what he'll do with Star Wars.

juggernaut74
I agree, he made Star Trek cool and Star Wars was already cool.

-Pr-
Star Trek isn't about being cool. Hell, it suffered somewhat from the attempt to make it cool (even though it has plenty of "cool" episodes already).

juggernaut74
I agree, Star Trek wasn't cool but I loved the new movie. It's almost as good as the Undiscovered Country film. TNG was by far the best Star Trek show imo though.

Darth Martin
Deep Space 9 is the best.

I agree with Rob. I thought his Star Trek film was great. I await the sequel eagerly and am interested to see where he'll go with Star Wars.

I thought Star Trek was cool even before the 2009 movie.

willprot
I ran into this thread and I see a lot of votes for the Borg, but from what I know about both series I can't see how the Empire wouldn't eradicate the Borg, and they are known for eradicating known threats, like the Jedis or Wookies.Yea maybe if the Borg were a sneaky race maybe, but the Borg assimilate through brute force, and brute force against brute force the Borg don't stand a chance.

Someone made a joke that if the Empire could kill trillions of Borg they would easily beat the rebels, yet conversely trillions of Borg could never beat Earth or 1 earth ship for that matter, whether the USS Enterprise or Voyager, because in shows... guess what... the good guys win so that's not a good measuring stick. What is is by the end of Voyager they had the technology for one ship to cut through the Borg like they were paper and there was nothing the Borg could do about it, and Voyager had to learn or "acquire" that technology over years... The Empire has technology to destroy PLANETS already much like Species 8472. So similarly on a smaller scale Star Destroyers against Borg Cubes I would assume hundreds if not thousands of Star Destroyers would cut through multiple of them like paper just like 8472 or Voyager did, because again all the Borg use are frontal "my ships are more powerful than yours" attacks and I don't see that they would be.

Robtard
The Borg never sent "trillions" against the Federation.

Species 8472 proved a threat to the Borg because the Borg had no way of adapting to their evolutionary peak biology and biological based weapons from another dimension. It wasn't just a matter or 'more power output'.

A handful of Species 8472 single-pilot ships can do what it takes the Death Star. ie destroy a planet.

The Borg don't soley rely on "my ships are more powerful than yours", they win through adapting and assimilation their enemy's tech into their own.

Darth Martin
If the Borg get on the ship I can see them quickly adapting to the blaster rifles of the Stormtroopers and assimilating quite a few of them. But if Vader or the Emperor is on board and they get word of what's going on the threat will quickly be neutralized.

Robtard
Originally posted by Darth Martin
If the Borg get on the ship I can see them quickly adapting to the blaster rifles of the Stormtroopers and assimilating quite a few of them. But if Vader or the Emperor is on board and they get word of what's going on the threat will quickly be neutralized.

How would Vader or Palpatine handle being transported? Cos after they slaughter enough Drones via sabre and Force attacks, the Borg will recognize the sizeable threat and take action to neutralize it.

Darth Martin
True. Didn't think of that. Borg could just beam into space. Goddamn Star Trek and they're vastly superior tech.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Robtard
How would Vader or Palpatine handle being transported? Cos after they slaughter enough Drones via sabre and Force attacks, the Borg will recognize the sizeable threat and take action to neutralize it. Just like they did to Starfleet?

Robtard
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Just like they did to Starfleet?

Are you questioning if the Borg have ever transported someone? If so, the answer is yes. They have transporter technology, it's very common/standard in Star Trek.

juggernaut74
I see.

Darth Truculent
Although I'm a bigger Wars fan than Trek, I have to go with the Borg. The Borg have shields that adapt the frequency of energy weapons. That is something the Empire is not familiar with. Unlike Wars armor, Borg have ablative armor which soaks damage if the shields are penetrated. A cube also contains a sphere which can be used in combat. Borg can beam through shields. It's sad to say that the Borg would win.

Q99
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Although I'm a bigger Wars fan than Trek, I have to go with the Borg. The Borg have shields that adapt the frequency of energy weapons. That is something the Empire is not familiar with.

Mind, it also seems likely that enough raw power can overwhelm it. The Fed managed to batter one down in First Contact, and while their performance against 8472 biobeams improved over time it never got to the 'not killed' stage.

-Pr-
The feds did it because their torpedoes aren't energy weapons, and they knew the precise part to hit. I dunno if the empire can do the same.

8472, I thought that was because even their weapons had a biological element.

Q99
Originally posted by -Pr-
The feds did it because their torpedoes aren't energy weapons, and they knew the precise part to hit. I dunno if the empire can do the same.

Nothing says adaptation works different between torps and energy weapons.

Torps did jack squat in prior encounters, same as phasers.




Biological elements aren't unadaptable. It's that their ships had an immune system that was stronger than the nanos, so they couldn't adapt that way, but nothing'd prevent them from doing trial and error.


And the Bioships were simply crazy powerful.

Darth Truculent
IMO, the Yuuzhan Vong would be the only species who possibly could stand a chance against the Borg. Their bioships are the wild card, but the Vong themselves, it is uncertain whether they could be assimiliated themselves. I just hate to say that I believe the Borg are stronger. At the Battle of Wolf 359, the Borg destroyed a Federation fleet. Unless Thrawn was commanding the armada sent to fight the Borg, the Empire cannot win.

Male Model
The Borg move really slowly, they remind me of Frankenstein's monster.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Q99
Nothing says adaptation works different between torps and energy weapons.

Torps did jack squat in prior encounters, same as phasers.




Biological elements aren't unadaptable. It's that their ships had an immune system that was stronger than the nanos, so they couldn't adapt that way, but nothing'd prevent them from doing trial and error.


And the Bioships were simply crazy powerful.

and in first contact and subsequent shows, we saw torpedoes completely bypass the borg energy field when phasers couldn't.

my point was that the borg couldn't adapt. if they could, they would have rendered the weapons useless.

Omega Vision
In the DS9 episode Jem'Hadar, the Odyssey's crew tries to modulate their shield frequency to compensate for the positronic weapons. It fails, but that still implies that the technique of adjusting shields to counter energy weapons isn't some Borg-specific asset, and also isn't full-proof.

I wonder, could a Borg Cube survive a suicide run by a Star Destroyer? Worst comes to worst, I don't think the Empire is above that.

Mindship
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I wonder, could a Borg Cube survive a suicide run by a Star Destroyer? Offhand, I would say yes, given their relative sizes:

http://www.sideshowsito.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ultimate_starship_chart.gif

On the other hand, the super star destroyer looks like an excellent contender. (I'm imaging collision speed as what's typically depicted onscreen, eg, Star Trek Nemesis.)

Omega Vision
A Jem'hadar attack ship once destroyed a Galaxy-class starship with a suicide run, and the size difference there was greater than the size difference between a Borg cube and a Star Destroyer.

Edit: This is my site of choice: http://www.merzo.net/

Mindship
Originally posted by Omega Vision
A Jem'hadar attack ship once destroyed a Galaxy-class starship with a suicide run, and the size difference there was greater than the size difference between a Borg cube and a Star Destroyer.I could see that, if the speed is great enough, or there's a potent energy source aboard. I was purely eyeballing.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Edit: This is my site of choice: http://www.merzo.net/ I'd forgotten about this one. Yes, excellent choice.

MF DELPH
I think the ramming tactic depends on velocity and whether the shields are up. There was an episode where a ship travelling at impulse (c) bounced off the Enterprise's shields. IIRC, it was the episode where they went to a planet that had a decommissioned army of super soldiers that were kept in a penal colony and one of the soldiers escaped and stole a shuttle with which he performed the maneuver (The Hunted).

-Pr-
it's about the angle too, iirc.

MF DELPH
Likely. How fast are Star Destroyers anyway? I know the Millennium Falcon could outrun any of them and it's top speed was .5 past light speed.

*edit

Correction on my previous post. Impulse isn't light speed. It's .5 light speed at full impulse. Light speed is warp 1.

Lorenz
The Empire has three great advantage:

- Hypermatter annihilator: This technology provides magnitudes more power than the antimatter reactors in Star Trek.

- Hyperdrive is almost as flexible as warp, (allowing ships to jump without outer help and almost everywhere.) but almost as fast as transwarp. (crossing the galaxy in some days) And it looks like, there is no hypermatter without hyperdrive. (Wookiepedia)

- Since the GE controls almost the entire galaxy, it has significantly more resources than the Borg, only possessing the 1/8 of the Milky Way. (Asuming roughly same density of habitable planets and strategic materials.)

But the Borg wins in almost every other field:
- Transporter technology
- Adaptability and technological flexibility
- Morale: the Borg has no moral in conventional sense, but the Borg drones, controlled by the hive mind, would willingly sacrifice themselves for the Collective, while we see that Stormtroopers surrender against the primitive ewoks and Han Solo in Battle of Endor. The Empire is confident with its galactic hegemony, showing no interest in extragalactic expansion, leaving for the Borg, pursuing the perfection endlessly, to discover them, and choose the time and place to fight.

- Modular and decentralized vessels: GE ships appear to have Achilles heels, (Thermal exhaust port on Death Star, Shield domes, bridge and hangar on ISD-s) while a Borg Cube can continue fighting even if 78% of its structure gets destroyed (Memory Alpha)

- Sensor and cloaking technology: The Imperial sensors are primitive: The Millenium Falcon could hide on the hull of a Star Destroyer in SW V, and the Death Star couldn't detect it and warn it's fighters at Yavin. They also appeared to have no environment scanners on their shield projection base on the Endor, but was assaulted by the ewoks, and foolishly run into the trap.

So my scenario looks like this: The Borg constructs an transwarp conduit somewhere hidden in the Outer Rim, and sends probes to investigate the galaxy. Some probes encounter Imperial Navy vessels, but quickly self-destruct. After some months on research, the Borg choose a poorly defended, insignificant planet, and assimilate it with three cubes. Let's say it's defended by a small garnizon, and an outdated Victory-class destroyer. If they can beam through it's shields, the battle wont last long, but even if not, and the SD's turbolasers deal heavy damage to the cubes, they adapt their shields to minimalize damage, and destroy the bridge using the old combination of shield-draining beam and cutting beam. Then they tractor in the escape pods and the civilian vessels of the planet, and assimilate everybody, who they can. (It's possible that, some species are immune to assimilation, both the most humanoids (including the humans, making the majority of the Imperial military) can be easily assimilated.) Then they destroy all the clues and retreat into our galaxy.
Having ships in its hands, and some engineers in its collective mind, the Borg assimilates all the captured technology, constructing Hypercubes fitted with hyperdrive and hypermatter reactor. Then in a couple of years they conquer the entire Milky Way. They can attack the Earth (and all key Federation, Klingon, Romulan... planets) with hyperdrives, assimilating them, before the Starfleet ships learn about the attack and sprint home, rendering Starfleet to Rebel-like outlaws roaming space homelessly, and slowly dying without personal and material supplies. With this, the Collective had compensated all the three main advantage of the Empire, which is still unavare of the Borgs presence. And how knows, may they could get some thransphasic torpedoes and ablative armor on the Earth
Its highly likely, that on the first assimilated planet, the Borg had found some Force-sensitive people. There are many possibilities:
- Force makes immune to nanoprobes. Best for the Empire, allowing only macrosurgical assimilation, but the Borg still learned about the Force.
- The Borg can develop some Nanotechnology or bioweapon, rendering Midi-chlorians useless.
- They can propagate Midi-chlorains, making all the drones Force sensitive. (Worst for the Empire)

After that they can launch their attack to Corusant, Kuat, and all the Empire, saying 'resistance is futile'. While the most of Imperial weapons (from blaster pistols to turbolasers) don't have settings and modulations, the Borg can quickly adapt their shielding to them, and annihilate or assimilate everything they find.
Possibly, the Borg assimilates an Imperial Officer, knowing about the Death Star, and they can send back an captured ISD with it's original (but inflected) crew, to get it, but even if not, and they run into it, and the superlaser vaporizes several cubes, they have solutions:
- Kamikaze attack with a cube on hyperdrive or warp 9.99
- leaving Subspace on the shortest safe distance, on the oposite side of the station, than the superlaser emitter, and landing on the surface, before DS could roll and use it's main weapon. Then they can cut the hull, and send hundreds of thousands of drones to assimilate the crew.
- One gramm red matter from assimilated vulcan scientist.

The Ellimist
The Empire utterly crushes any civilization in Star Trek short of entity-like outliers.

1. It contains a monstrous industry of a million systems and as many as fifty million colonies that allows it to construct a 900 km diameter Death Star to half completion in about a year, in the outer rim, in secret.

2. Its hyperdrives allow it to strike with fleets at will anywhere in the galaxy within hours.

3. The firepower and shielding ratings of imperial weaponry are orders of magnitude beyond those of the Borg; there are a host of independent methodologies to come to this conclusion, but I'd just point to Saxton's ICS's and Leeland Chee's endorsement of them as the first place he'd look to for firepower figures.

4. In addition to the Death Star - and I'm not sure what the Borg's response is supposed to be - the Empire (we're presumably using Legends given the OP's date) has several superweapons being developed in the maw such as the sun crusher and galaxy gun, which would be entirely out of context problems for the Borg.

5. Palpatine himself has the ability to conjure Force storms from across the galaxy that can tear the surfaces off of worlds.

Yeah, the Borg could get the entire Alpha Quadrant and the Dominion, and it wouldn't make a damn of a difference.

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