POINTS MATCH: logan vs cap

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



leonidas
purely h2h. martial arts point system determines the winner. no need to ko, just score via strikes.

who wins?

Bentley
Wolvie has super speed? Not that it helped Spider-man against Cap eek!

If this is Logan vs Bucky is way closer.

tideoftime
Assuming no claws, and with Logan's healing powers being moot in this style of combat, I have to go with Captain America. Not sure of the spread I'd give, but definitely favors Cap.

Battlehammer
niether style of combat is good for point fighting, Logan has more styles to call upon which should give him the edge.

Starscream M
cap.

cap is more used to dodging than logan.

galactusischere
James FTW

Battlehammer
point fighting is not real good indication of how a fight would go. Many point fighters, when put into a real fight out get man handle. There styles that are most effective in point fighting is not effective in a real fight or full contact match.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Battlehammer
point fighting is not real good indication of how a fight would go. no one said it was. no expression

Battlehammer
I think leo trying to figure out how each match up in terms of MA skills, thats why he made these threads, so I am trying to let him know that point fighting has little to do with real fighting.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I think leo trying to figure out how each match up in terms of MA skills, thats why he made these threads, so I am trying to let him know that point fighting has little to do with real fighting. I think he's trying to determined who's more skilled, not who would win in a real fight

cap may be more skilled, but he can't beat logan in a real fight

tideoftime
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I think leo trying to figure out how each match up in terms of MA skills, thats why he made these threads, so I am trying to let him know that point fighting has little to do with real fighting.

I agree.

Sparring like this is good practice for finesse and technique, but doesn't readily translate to "who's better/going to stomp" in a consistant way. (I am taking your assumption about the underlying motive at face value)

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Starscream M
I think he's trying to determined who's more skilled, not who would win in a real fight

cap may be more skilled, but he can't beat logan in a real fight
Being better at point sparing does not make one a more skilled MA, certain MA styles are made for point sparing.

FrothByte
I have always thought capt. A to be on a better skill lever than other top street fighters of marvel (wolverine, dd, etc.)

in a real fight, he'd have trouble with wolvi coz of the healing factor, but in a point system like this he has all the advantages.


he's taller (longer reach), he doesn't tire (almost anyway), he has more finesse, he's used to dodging (while wolvi just soaks up damage), he's faster (curtesy of super soldier serrum and wolvi's 300lbs frame), and he's still titled as one of MU's best h2h fighters.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by FrothByte
I have always thought capt. A to be on a better skill lever than other top street fighters of marvel (wolverine, dd, etc.)

in a real fight, he'd have trouble with wolvi coz of the healing factor, but in a point system like this he has all the advantages.


he's taller (longer reach), he doesn't tire (almost anyway), he has more finesse, he's used to dodging (while wolvi just soaks up damage), he's faster (curtesy of super soldier serrum and wolvi's 300lbs frame), and he's still titled as one of MU's best h2h fighters.
wolverine not street leveler.


No he really doesent, his style of fighting is not good for point system, Logan superior knowledge of different MA would give him an advantage.

He smaller true, but he also a harder target to hit. Wolverine stamina is as good if not better. He does not have more finesse in the least, wolverine does not need to dodge, but has shown to be just as good as capt when the event calls for it as shown in there origins fight. Capt not faster in the slightest wolverine has superior speed feats. Wolverine posses super human level stats and also had his body physically enhanced by the same program. Capt not Marels bets h2h fight nor does that mean anything in point sparring.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Starscream M
cap.

cap is more used to dodging than logan.

Yet Steve was impressed by Logan's dodging skills.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Battlehammer
No he really doesent, his style of fighting is not good for point system, Logan superior knowledge of different MA would give him an advantage.

He smaller true, but he also a harder target to hit. Wolverine stamina is as good if not better. He does not have more finesse in the least, wolverine does not need to dodge, but has shown to be just as good as capt when the event calls for it as shown in there origins fight. Capt not faster in the slightest wolverine has superior speed feats. Wolverine posses super human level stats and also had his body physically enhanced by the same program. Capt not Marels bets h2h fight nor does that mean anything in point sparring. That's your opinion, which is about as reliable as someone bald-facedly asserting that focusing upon a single/few style(s) that specialize ina point system would give someone an advantage in point sparring. And Cap knows more styles than Logan anyway.

Cap has superior speed feats. It's not a question. Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yet Steve was impressed by Logan's dodging skills. Being impressed means nothing more than appreciating a certain notion. I can be impressed by an infant's scribbling. Doesn't mean that infant is better at art than I am.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Cap knows more styles than Logan anyway.

Yeah, sure. Based on Baron Zemo scan?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Cap has superior speed feats. It's not a question.

Now that's very interesting. Examples of these "superior" feats?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Being impressed means nothing more than appreciating a certain notion. I can be impressed by an infant's scribbling. Doesn't mean that infant is better at art than I am.

Whatever, Cap does more blocking than dodging anyway.

steverules_2
I remember a wolverine issue, guest starring captain America, wolverine jumped towards cap (claws out) and coulda killed cap there and then, and this wasn't from behind cap saw wolverine coming and just stood there looking scared, wolverine saved cap from some invisible ninja who was about to kill cap...just saying, cap wasn't so fast then

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by steverules_2
I remember a wolverine issue, guest starring captain America, wolverine jumped towards cap (claws out) and coulda killed cap there and then, and this wasn't from behind cap saw wolverine coming and just stood there looking scared, wolverine saved cap from some invisible ninja who was about to kill cap...just saying, cap wasn't so fast then

1. http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3029/invisicaptb2.jpg
2. http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9459/invisicap2uf8.jpg
credit to jin

Battlehammer
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, sure. Based on Baron Zemo scan?



Now that's very interesting. Examples of these "superior" feats?



Whatever, Cap does more blocking than dodging anyway.
cosigned.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, sure. Based on Baron Zemo scan?

Now that's very interesting. Examples of these "superior" feats?

Whatever, Cap does more blocking than dodging anyway. Among others.

Cap dodging a bullet AFTER it's fired from point-blank range and throwing his shield.

He does both more often. Originally posted by steverules_2
I remember a wolverine issue, guest starring captain America, wolverine jumped towards cap (claws out) and coulda killed cap there and then, and this wasn't from behind cap saw wolverine coming and just stood there looking scared, wolverine saved cap from some invisible ninja who was about to kill cap...just saying, cap wasn't so fast then Cap not being able to see/smell/hear that invisible opponent might have had something to do with him being unable to react to that invisible opponent. It's not an indication of a lack of speed. And considering that Wolverine compliments Cap on holding his ground and nerve and not assuming he was being attacked sort of throws that interpretation that "Cap was terrified" out the window.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Among others.

Cap dodging a bullet AFTER it's fired from point-blank range and throwing his shield.

He does both more often.
such as? seeing as how Logan trained vastly longer, study under numerous masters and is constantly listed as knowing all or virtually all fighting styles on the planet as well as alien ones I find this hard to believe. But you also think capt takes the majority vs wolverine, so I am far from surprized at your opinion on the matter.

That be reflex, not speed. Also got scan or issue number? Not to mention Logan dodge bullets after they were fired as well from a sitting possion in a chair.



When did doing something more make you better?

BUSTER1
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Among others.

Cap dodging a bullet AFTER it's fired from point-blank range and throwing his shield.

He does both more often. Cap not being able to see/smell/hear that invisible opponent might have had something to do with him being unable to react to that invisible opponent. It's not an indication of a lack of speed. And considering that Wolverine compliments Cap on holding his ground and nerve and not assuming he was being attacked sort of throws that interpretation that "Cap was terrified" out the window.

thumb up too right-the 2nd scan clearly shows that Cap knew Logan wasn't attacking him, so wasn't terrified
As for this points match its close, but i would give it to Cap as he is more practiced, overall, skillwise-he has to be because he has no HF. In a lot of fights, Wolvie doesn't have to bother with finesse that much because his HF means he can take loads of punishment and instantly heal. Cap needs to be good enough to dodge virtually every attack, whilst successfully landing hits on his opponent.

OneDumbG0
^ thumb up Originally posted by Battlehammer
such as? seeing as how Logan trained vastly longer, study under numerous masters and is constantly listed as knowing all or virtually all fighting styles on the planet as well as alien ones I find this hard to believe. But you also think capt takes the majority vs wolverine, so I am far from surprized at your opinion on the matter.

That be reflex, not speed. Also got scan or issue number? Not to mention Logan dodge bullets after they were fired as well from a sitting possion in a chair..

When did doing something more make you better? Unsupported assertion. Especially not supported on-panel.

No difference in the context of a H2H fight. And I can't believe you've never seen this scan before. This isn't the first time Cap's done it, but this is one instance I'm referring to:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_ca14016zs1.jpg

And no. In that scene you're referring to, the action cuts away from Logan right before the bullets were fired. There's a window of oppurtunity for him to preemptively jump out of the way. Try again. Or don't. The difference between the scenes is so obvious it's painfully obvious how attenuated your wish to equate the two are.

I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to StiltmanFTW.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Among others.

Educate me then.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Cap dodging a bullet AFTER it's fired from point-blank range and throwing his shield.

Heh, I knew you'd mention that. That was a single move. Impressive, but saying that's superior to Logan's feats is just wrong.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He does both more often. Cap not being able to see/smell/hear that invisible opponent might have had something to do with him being unable to react to that invisible opponent. It's not an indication of a lack of speed. And considering that Wolverine compliments Cap on holding his ground and nerve and not assuming he was being attacked sort of throws that interpretation that "Cap was terrified" out the window.

He was clearly terrified at first as you can see then realized he wasn't Wolverine's target.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And no. In that scene you're referring to, the action cuts away from Logan right before the bullets were fired. There's a window of oppurtunity for him to preemptively jump out of the way. Try again. Or don't. The difference between the scenes is so obvious it's painfully obvious how attenuated your wish to equate the two are.

Madripoor? Those thugs said that nothing human moves that fast. To them it appeared as if he has vanished.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ thumb up Unsupported assertion. Especially not supported on-panel.

No difference in the context of a H2H fight. And I can't believe you've never seen this scan before. This isn't the first time Cap's done it, but this is one instance I'm referring to:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/th_ca14016zs1.jpg

And no. In that scene you're referring to, the action cuts away from Logan right before the bullets were fired. There's a window of oppurtunity for him to preemptively jump out of the way. Try again. Or don't. The difference between the scenes is so obvious it's painfully obvious how attenuated your wish to equate the two are.

I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to StiltmanFTW.
Wolverine has display on pannel more MA styles then steve has, he even been accredited to knowing alien ones.

Quite a bit different when wolverine has legitment speed blizt feats that capt can't match.

nice feat, but far from out doing wolverine. No I am not refferring to the scene at the bar my friend, but thanks for the reminder of how utterly arrogant you can be.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5402/kwls2pg18lowresnc4.jpg

oh and there are many more, like the time he was a sleep and woke up from the sniper firer being shot at him, but was still fast enough to dodge the bullets before they hit him.


yea and I was speaking to you. If you dont want others to respond to you how about pming him?

Starscream M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


He was clearly terrified at first as you can see then realized he wasn't Wolverine's target.

it would be out of character for cap to be terrified.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Starscream M
it would be out of character for cap to be terrified.

Look at the scan and tell me what you see. No one is completely immune to fear and certainly not Cap who is just a human being with human emotions.

Starscream M
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Look at the scan and tell me what you see. No one is completely immune to fear and certainly not Cap who is just a human being with human emotions. you make cap sound like he's just an average joe

sure cap would have fears

but he certainly would not be 'terrified' by wolverine lunging at him...shocked or surprised perhaps.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Educate me then.

Heh, I knew you'd mention that. That was a single move. Impressive, but saying that's superior to Logan's feats is just wrong.

He was clearly terrified at first as you can see then realized he wasn't Wolverine's target.

Madripoor? Those thugs said that nothing human moves that fast. To them it appeared as if he has vanished. Ball's in your court. You already have proof in your lap. If there's anythign to suggest that Wolverine's got better, then feel free to share.

Sorry. But you making a patently bald-faced assertion without providing a single scan or reference or smidgeon of proof? That suffices for an argument? Not to me.

Try reading the next page where Wolverine compliments Cap for holding his nerve and Cap stating that he understood that Wolverine wasn't going to slash him. Looking at the art of Cap's wide-eyes in isolation and using tunnel-vision prevents you from appreciating context. But that doesn't prevent me from mpointing it out.

Cap's got oodles of those feats. Wolverine doesn't have a single feat where it's clear a bullet is fired before Logan's in position to dodge/block a bullet.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Quite a bit different when wolverine has legitment speed blizt feats that capt can't match.

nice feat, but far from out doing wolverine. No I am not refferring to the scene at the bar my friend, but thanks for the reminder of how utterly arrogant you can be.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5402/kwls2pg18lowresnc4.jpg

oh and there are many more, like the time he was a sleep and woke up from the sniper firer being shot at him, but was still fast enough to dodge the bullets before they hit him.

yea and I was speaking to you. If you dont want others to respond to you how about pming him? No. He doesn't. Show them.

Um no. That's exactly the one I was thinking about. Just because StiltmanFTW was referring to another one doesn't mean I was referring to that one. Try not to confuse posters. I know about both of those feats since jinzin laughably posted those to "match" Cap's. Keep your ad hominem to yourself, schmuck.

Post them.

How about you don't dictate who I talk to? Backseat-mod much?

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Starscream M
it would be out of character for cap to be terrified.

thumb up

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ball's in your court. You already have proof in your lap. If there's anythign to suggest that Wolverine's got better, then feel free to share.

Does Cap know krav maga? Did he learn from Sh'iar combat priests? When has he ever displayed a Karnak-esque ability?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sorry. But you making a patently bald-faced assertion without providing a single scan or reference or smidgeon of proof? That suffices for an argument? Not to me.

Onedumb. You've already done this debate several times and you still believe dodging a bullet after it's been fired is somehow superior to Wolverine feats? Really?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Try reading the next page where Wolverine compliments Cap for holding his nerve and Cap stating that he understood that Wolverine wasn't going to slash him. Looking at the art of Cap's wide-eyes in isolation and using tunnel-vision prevents you from appreciating context. But that doesn't prevent me from mpointing it out.

Dude, Cap even didn't know what was going on. He didn't even guess at why Logan didn't aim at him. Fact is, he got scared at first and that's it. Like it or not.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Cap's got oodles of those feats. Wolverine doesn't have a single feat where it's clear a bullet is fired before Logan's in position to dodge/block a bullet.

Wow. And Cap doesn't have a single feat where he's moved almost faster than a powerful telepath's mind can follow. See how that works...?

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Does Cap know krav maga? Did he learn from Sh'iar combat priests? When has he ever displayed a Karnak-esque ability?

Onedumb. You've already done this debate several times and you still believe dodging a bullet after it's been fired is somehow superior to Wolverine feats? Really?

Dude, Cap even didn't know what was going on. He didn't even guess at why Logan didn't aim at him. Fact is, he got scared at first and that's it. Like it or not.

Wow. And Cap doesn't have a single feat where he's moved almost faster than a powerful telepath's mind can follow. See how that works...? The argument is about whether Cap knows more styles, not about whether Cap knows every single style that Logan knows. So your questions are inaposite. There's on-panel proof that Cap knows every single H2H fighting style on Earth. Is there on-panel proof that Wolverine knows all of them as well?

Yes. Because Wolverine's matched Cap's feats up to a certain point. But he doesn't have any feats to match Cap's where he's not in a position to dodge/block, and does so, AFTER a bullet is already fired. Are you somehow suggesting that such a feat isn't clearly superior than the generic telegraphing/aim-dodging that is common amongst street-levelers?

No. He didn't. It's evident the only reason you think that is because of Cap's wide-eyes. But you can be taken off-guard and still maintain your composure. And that's exactly what happened since Cap states he isn't fooled into thinking Logan would really attack him and Logan even compliments him on that exact fact. Like it or not.

It's not working at all the way you think it does, despite how clever you thought you may have been: (i) Psylocke (before her ninja training) was clearly referring to visually tracking the fight, since she talks about how "both men move in a blur" and the panel shows, conveniently enough, a blur effect; (ii) Psylocke may be a telepath, but that doesn't necessarily mean she was tracking their movements telepathically, so projecting some sort of "speed of thought" onto Wolverine's physical fight is reaching; (iii) almost faster is still almost faster but not faster; and (iv) if you give me half a day, I'm sure I can find a scan of Cap moving almost more quickly than someone w/ telepathy could follow.

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The argument is about whether Cap knows more styles, not about whether Cap knows every single style that Logan knows. So your questions are inaposite. There's on-panel proof that Cap knows every single H2H fighting style on Earth. Is there on-panel proof that Wolverine knows all of them as well?

Yes. Because Wolverine's matched Cap's feats up to a certain point. But he doesn't have any feats to match Cap's where he's not in a position to dodge/block, and does so, AFTER a bullet is already fired. Are you somehow suggesting that such a feat isn't clearly superior than the generic telegraphing/aim-dodging that is common amongst street-levelers?

No. He didn't. It's evident the only reason you think that is because of Cap's wide-eyes. But you can be taken off-guard and still maintain your composure. And that's exactly what happened since Cap states he isn't fooled into thinking Logan would really attack him and Logan even compliments him on that exact fact. Like it or not.

It's not working at all the way you think it does, despite how clever you thought you may have been: (i) Psylocke (before her ninja training) was clearly referring to visually tracking the fight, since she talks about how "both men move in a blur" and the panel shows, conveniently enough, a blur effect; (ii) Psylocke may be a telepath, but that doesn't necessarily mean she was tracking their movements telepathically, so projecting some sort of "speed of thought" onto Wolverine's physical fight is reaching; (iii) almost faster is still almost faster but not faster; and (iv) if you give me half a day, I'm sure I can find a scan of Cap moving almost more quickly than someone w/ telepathy could follow.
His confrontations with Modok would probably be the best place to start looking...

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The argument is about whether Cap knows more styles, not about whether Cap knows every single style that Logan knows. So your questions are inaposite. There's on-panel proof that Cap knows every single H2H fighting style on Earth. Is there on-panel proof that Wolverine knows all of them as well?

I find it hard to believe he had enough time to learn all these styles. That was his own statement anyway. Not the impartial narration. It could be argued that he just tried to intimidate Zemo.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yes. Because Wolverine's matched Cap's feats up to a certain point. But he doesn't have any feats to match Cap's where he's not in a position to dodge/block, and does so, AFTER a bullet is already fired. Are you somehow suggesting that such a feat isn't clearly superior than the generic telegraphing/aim-dodging that is common amongst street-levelers?

Right, ignore Logan's feats and continue using your favorite scan. In every thread you do the same. A thought that you are taking that feat too literally at the art never crossed your mind? And it's not like Logan doesn't have similar feats:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5402/kwls2pg18lowresnc4.jpg (posted earlier by BH)

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9711/wolviebullye1.jpg

In both cases that wasn't just a single bullet.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. He didn't. It's evident the only reason you think that is because of Cap's wide-eyes. But you can be taken off-guard and still maintain your composure. And that's exactly what happened since Cap states he isn't fooled into thinking Logan would really attack him and Logan even compliments him on that exact fact. Like it or not.

Oh yes, he did. He moved back and covered face with his hand. Logan complimented him 'cause he didn't counter-attack him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's not working at all the way you think it does, despite how clever you thought you may have been: (i) Psylocke (before her ninja training) was clearly referring to visually tracking the fight, since she talks about how "both men move in a blur" and the panel shows, conveniently enough, a blur effect; (ii) Psylocke may be a telepath, but that doesn't necessarily mean she was tracking their movements telepathically, so projecting some sort of speed of thought onto Wolverine's fight is reaching; (iii) almost faster is still almost faster but not faster; and (iv) if you give me half a day, I'm sure I can find a scan of Cap moving almost more quickly than someone w/ telepathy could follow.

Fair enough.

Has the impartial narrator ever stated that Steve moves faster than human eyes can follow?

khazra
Cap is a better fighter than shang chi & ironfist who ae better than logan. He was dominating Iron Fist so much that Iron Fist had to use the environment to end the fight by making Cap save him from falling debris, which he did.

Wolverine has commented in a fight with cap that cap is more skiled.

Rage.Of.Olympus
This is a real ridiculous showing of Captain America for speed.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/th_CapFasterthanBullets.jpg

He is standing besides Red Skull while the bullets are being fired. That means he would have to cross the room after the bullets were fired, and put up his shield. That's a legit showing of him being literally faster than bullets.

Good night.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by khazra
Cap is a better fighter than shang chi & ironfist who ae better than logan. He was dominating Iron Fist so much that Iron Fist had to use the environment to end the fight by making Cap save him from falling debris, which he did.

Wolverine has commented in a fight with cap that cap is more skiled.
You just made this all up.

For starters Wolverine beat Shang-chi in 5 pannels. Second Iron Fist call Capt style basic and Capt never beat him.....that entire event you made up........

Wolverine has never commented that Capt was better fighter, let a lone in a fight. You made that up. Wolverine did however give Capt a blot clot forcing him to be flown to the hospital.......

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is a real ridiculous showing of Captain America for speed.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/th_CapFasterthanBullets.jpg

He is standing besides Red Skull while the bullets are being fired. That means he would have to cross the room after the bullets were fired, and put up his shield. That's a legit showing of him being literally faster than bullets.

Good night.
It not look at the scan again. The gun and bullets are aimed at the right of the guy. Capt intercept other bullets not the original three fired. As you can see by the differences in position that the bullets are being fired in.

Tha C-Master
Since point fighting is reliant on speed and more strategy, I think Cap is more inclined towards it honestly. Doesn't mean as much in a real fight, but I think this is more his alley. IMO.

The gun does look like it's aiming towards the right, but it seems that Cap was blocking the shots to save him. But either way, to insinuate Cap is faster than a bullet is utter PIS and silliness, plain and simple no discussion. Sorry if that seems harsh, but still.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Since point fighting is reliant on speed and more strategy, I think Cap is more inclined towards it honestly. Doesn't mean as much in a real fight, but I think this is more his alley. IMO.
But he not faster, and strategy has no more play then normal in my opinion His style of fighting is not overly good for point fighting either. Some one like shang-chi or DD I feel have styles of fighting for point fighting. but thats just my opinion.

snoopdogg
This can go either way. I'd bet on Logan though because he's more experienced.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Battlehammer
But he not faster, and strategy has no more play then normal in my opinion His style of fighting is not overly good for point fighting either. Some one like shang-chi or DD I feel have styles of fighting for point fighting. but thats just my opinion. Not arguing Caps speed, more of his way of thinking than anything. This just seems like his type of match. I'd give him like 6.5 out of ten.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by snoopdogg
This can go either way. I'd bet on Logan though because he's more experienced.
cosign, I would not be surprised in the least if Capt or Wolverine won, but I lean toward Wolverine due to experience.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Not arguing Caps speed, more of his way of thinking than anything. This just seems like his type of match. I'd give him like 6.5 out of ten.
I disagree, boxing, judo arnt the best type of styles for point sparing, but to each his own.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Battlehammer
But he not faster, and strategy has no more play then normal in my opinion His style of fighting is not overly good for point fighting either. Some one like shang-chi or DD I feel have styles of fighting for point fighting. but thats just my opinion. DD would be good for point fighting

I think cap has the reach advantage against logan though

Tha C-Master
I'm not talking styles, just his strategy. Judo is almost useless in most point sparring and that depends on if they allow it.

The real winner is the insurance company as they come up with the rules to begin with. big grin

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'm not talking styles, just his strategy. Judo is almost useless in most point sparring and that depends on if they allow it.

The real winner is the insurance company as they come up with the rules to begin with. big grin
true lol

Eternal Idol
As they are, Wolverine would win via speed advantage. He also has experience over Cap, but debating skills is a can of worms I don't want to open.

Assuming all things are equal except for difference in height, Cap wins via reach advantage.

Battlehammer

FrothByte
Originally posted by Battlehammer
wolverine not street leveler.


No he really doesent, his style of fighting is not good for point system, Logan superior knowledge of different MA would give him an advantage.

He smaller true, but he also a harder target to hit. Wolverine stamina is as good if not better. He does not have more finesse in the least, wolverine does not need to dodge, but has shown to be just as good as capt when the event calls for it as shown in there origins fight. Capt not faster in the slightest wolverine has superior speed feats. Wolverine posses super human level stats and also had his body physically enhanced by the same program. Capt not Marels bets h2h fight nor does that mean anything in point sparring.

Yes wolvi is street level. He has peak human stats, that makes him street level like DD and Batman. Cap is just above peak human.

Wolvi has high and low showings of his speed, depending on the writer. so does cap. but then again, wolvi has never been stated to have metahuman or superhuman speed. he has PEAK human speed (unless you can show me an unbiased statement saying otherwise).

cap has always been stated as one of MU's best h2h fighters, claiming otherwise is simply bull.

also just so you know, boxing is one of the best fighting styles for point system, and the ducks and dodges in boxing are almost unparalleled by any other MA. I'm not saying it's the best MA (it doesn't really have counters for kicks) but i just want to point out that you can't simply rule out boxing. It may not be as fancy as kung fu or as brutal as krav maga, but you can't disagree about it's effectiveness.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes wolvi is street level. He has peak human stats, that makes him street level like DD and Batman. Cap is just above peak human.

Wolvi has high and low showings of his speed, depending on the writer. so does cap. but then again, wolvi has never been stated to have metahuman or superhuman speed. he has PEAK human speed (unless you can show me an unbiased statement saying otherwise).

No he not you could not be anymore incorrect. Nothing bias about it your wrong simple as that. Logan never been stated on pannel ever as being peak-human thats some crap you made up and are quite miss informed. Oh and you might have wanted to look at the scans I already presented right above your very post.......

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6473/wolverinesabilitieswt6.jpg

Originally posted by FrothByte
cap has always been stated as one of MU's best h2h fighters, claiming otherwise is simply bull.
Never said he wasent, you said he was the best which is wrong. Wolverien also one of the best.

Originally posted by FrothByte
also just so you know, boxing is one of the best fighting styles for point system, and the ducks and dodges in boxing are almost unparalleled by any other MA.
No it not at all clearly need to educate your self. Boxer would get utterly murder in point fighting matches vs numerous martial art styles. There far to one demensional.


Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm not saying it's the best MA (it doesn't really have counters for kicks) but i just want to point out that you can't simply rule out boxing. It may not be as fancy as kung fu or as brutal as krav maga, but you can't disagree about it's effectiveness.
Not saying it not effective, it simply not good for point sparing. Nor is krav maga. Point fighting is not the same as fighting, and many of the most effective styles in real fights would not be effective in point sparing.

Juk3n
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes wolvi is street level. He has peak human stats, that makes him street level like DD and Batman. Cap is just above peak human.

Wolvi has high and low showings of his speed, depending on the writer. so does cap. but then again, wolvi has never been stated to have metahuman or superhuman speed. he has PEAK human speed

KMC has the best most comprehensive wolverine respect thread on the interweb - take 20 mins and have a read through for christ sake, the statements you made are so wrong i don't know where to begin.

NO!! don't reply , take your fingers off the keyboard, you don't need the keyboard inorder to 'clickty click' your way to the respect thread. you can reach it in 4 clicks from this very messege. And i won't bother check back here for a reply because i know you'll find all the evidence you need waiting for you, and then you shall be enlightened.

Now GTFO!

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Juk3n
KMC has the best most comprehensive wolverine respect thread on the interweb - take 20 mins and have a read through for christ sake, the statements you made are so wrong i don't know where to begin.

NO!! don't reply , take your fingers off the keyboard, you don't need the keyboard inorder to 'clickty click' your way to the respect thread. you can reach it in 4 clicks from this very messege. And i won't bother check back here for a reply because i know you'll find all the evidence you need waiting for you, and then you shall be enlightened.

Now GTFO!
cosign lol

FrothByte
Originally posted by Battlehammer
No he not you could not be anymore incorrect. Nothing bias about it your wrong simple as that. Logan never been stated on pannel ever as being peak-human thats some crap you made up and are quite miss informed. Oh and you might have wanted to look at the scans I already presented right above your very post.......


Never said he wasent, you said he was the best which is wrong. Wolverien also one of the best.


No it not at all clearly need to educate your self. Boxer would get utterly murder in point fighting matches vs numerous martial art styles. There far to one demensional.



Not saying it not effective, it simply not good for point sparing. Nor is krav maga. Point fighting is not the same as fighting, and many of the most effective styles in real fights would not be effective in point sparing.


Kudos, it seems it is stated somewhere that he has superhuman strength. any idea just how much? coz according to sites like these:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/w/wolverine.htm
http://www.marveldirectory.com/strengthlevels/human.htm
http://marvel.wikia.com/Strength_Scale


Wolverine is only stated (consistently) to have a max press of 800 lbs (and during berserk can maybe sometimes boost up to 2 tons since he is sometimes shown as breaking chains).

i changed my mind about the stamina issue, coz it seems wolvi's healing factor does allow him to have longer stamina.

as for boxing and point systems, give me 3 other MA's that can undeniably claimed as having a better technique for point systems than boxing.




Juk3n: What's with all the sarcasm and anger? did i insult your grandma or something? grow up and learn to debate nicely.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes wolvi is street level. He has peak human stats, that makes him street level like DD and Batman. Cap is just above peak human.

Wolvi has high and low showings of his speed, depending on the writer. so does cap. but then again, wolvi has never been stated to have metahuman or superhuman speed. he has PEAK human speed (unless you can show me an unbiased statement saying otherwise).

cap has always been stated as one of MU's best h2h fighters, claiming otherwise is simply bull.

also just so you know, boxing is one of the best fighting styles for point system, and the ducks and dodges in boxing are almost unparalleled by any other MA. I'm not saying it's the best MA (it doesn't really have counters for kicks) but i just want to point out that you can't simply rule out boxing. It may not be as fancy as kung fu or as brutal as krav maga, but you can't disagree about it's effectiveness.

Here you are. Hyper-reflexive speed.

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/3317/hyperreflexestj2.jpg

It was also stated on panel that he can move faster than human eyes can follow.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Kudos, it seems it is stated somewhere that he has superhuman strength. any idea just how much? coz according to sites like these:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/w/wolverine.htm
http://www.marveldirectory.com/strengthlevels/human.htm
http://marvel.wikia.com/Strength_Scale


Wolverine is only stated (consistently) to have a max press of 800 lbs (and during berserk can maybe sometimes boost up to 2 tons since he is sometimes shown as breaking chains).

i changed my mind about the stamina issue, coz it seems wolvi's healing factor does allow him to have longer stamina.

as for boxing and point systems, give me 3 other MA's that can undeniably claimed as having a better technique for point systems than boxing.




Juk3n: What's with all the sarcasm and anger? did i insult your grandma or something? grow up and learn to debate nicely.

It's over 800 Ibs. He's been stated on panel to have superhuman strength, he has feats to back it up, what more do you want? Oh and in berserk he got free from Ursa Major's bearhug. And no, he doesn't need to go berserk to break shackles or chains... no expression

It was outright stated on panel that he has enhanced stamina.

Like Juk3n said, go to the revamped respect thread and educate yourself.

jinzin
Originally posted by leonidas
purely h2h. martial arts point system determines the winner. no need to ko, just score via strikes.

who wins? Probably Cap due to reach and he's not as careless as Wolverine's used to being due to HF.

carver9
I love wolverine but I give cap the edge in fighting ability. Speed, damn, rage posted a good speed feat with cap outracing 3 bullets that was shot (and battle hammer, he outraced the bullets. It clearly showed redskull shooting 3 bullets and thats what hit cap shield).

Wolverine has some impressive speed feats also, like out racing speed demon for a short distance. He even have speed feats of running across a room like quicksilver, dodging blast BUT I'm going to give credit where its due (and I'm a HUGE wolverine fan and know just as much about him than anyone on KMC), cap is the better fighter out of the two (damn it hurt me saying that). In a fight without limitations like this, I give it to wolverine almost every damn time.

BattleMage
Don't be foolish. Captain America for the win

rotiart
I vote cap

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I find it hard to believe he had enough time to learn all these styles. That was his own statement anyway. Not the impartial narration. It could be argued that he just tried to intimidate Zemo.Speculation. There's no reason to doubt his own statement and nothing in his career suggests he doesn't possess that level of fighting ability.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Right, ignore Logan's feats and continue using your favorite scan. In every thread you do the same. A thought that you are taking that feat too literally at the art never crossed your mind? And it's not like Logan doesn't have similar feats:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5402/kwls2pg18lowresnc4.jpg (posted earlier by BH)

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9711/wolviebullye1.jpg

In both cases that wasn't just a single bullet.Similar doesn't mean equal. If you believe the former shows that Wolverine couldn't possibly be moving when the bullets were already fired, then just look at the previous page of the first scan provided you bothered to do so before posting it. The second scan has Wolverine in the process of ducking and weaving and if you simply look at the bullet placement, you'll see that Wolverine didn't even need to duck further for the shoulder shots or duck much further than an inch for the chest shot. Just look at his silhouette as they're shooting! Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Oh yes, he did. He moved back and covered face with his hand. Logan complimented him 'cause he didn't counter-attack him.Because he wasn't fooled at all into thinking Wolverine would attack him. As they both acknowledge. What possible reason would Cap have to be terrified then? Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Fair enough.

Has the impartial narrator ever stated that Steve moves faster than human eyes can follow? Likely. Can't think of one right now. Are we talking about a narrative or character statement?

OneDumbG0

psycho gundam
cap can block most of logans slashes if he wants to, he might block all of them to be honest.

the infamous gladiator owning the FF then reed defeating him by figuring out how his power works was thanks to captain america covered by an illusion of reed blocking gladiator's onslaught and reducing his confidence.

if i had the scan you can clearly see gladiator using his speed to batter and firing heat vision at the image of reed grinning at him to no avail, cap was the one blocking all of that and he wasn't even pushed back by any of it....he even had a smile on his face when it was all over.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
1. http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3029/invisicaptb2.jpg
2. http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9459/invisicap2uf8.jpg
credit to jin

looks like he knew it was coming and flat out dodged it to me....

Brutacus
point match I would put my money on cap.

The fight would start on there feet so it would give cap to score some point's thanks to his longer arms and legs and he is a good enough fighter to fight defends iff he was on his back, to wait till the ref would put them on there feet again.

other fight wolverine would gut him

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.