Mandrakk runs a gauntlet

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galactusischere
Mandrakk from DC runs a gauntlet.
Mandrakk doest not get any rest and repleneshing time after each fight. CIS and PIS are off.
Gautnelt:
1- Bat-Mite
2- Phoenix of the white Crown
3- Galactus(don't turn this into a phoenix vs Galactus thread..)
4- Eternity, Infinity and Death
5- Mad Jim Jaspers
6- Oblivion
7- Abraxas(please don't turn this into a oblivion vs abraxas thread)
8- Emperor Joker
9- Crisis on Infinite Earths Anti-Monitor
10- WF Mxy
11- HoM Wanda
12- Elaine
13- Primal Monitor
14- Beyonder
how far does he get?

Endless Mike
Who the hell is Manrakk? Is he a man with huge manboobs (hence, man-rack?)

galactusischere
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Who the hell is Manrakk? Is he a man with huge manboobs (hence, man-rack?)

shit.. good call
edited

xJLxKing
13

Omega Vision
This list is out of order. How is HOM Wanda higher than Mxy, MJJ, and EJ?
Mandrakk wither stops at 10 or stops at 13. I'd put Primal Monitor above Beyonder since PM was either = or greater to the Presence.

galactusischere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
This list is out of order. How is HOM Wanda higher than Mxy, MJJ, and EJ?
Mandrakk wither stops at 10 or stops at 13. I'd put Primal Monitor above Beyonder since PM was either = or greater to the Presence.
HoM wanda was almost LT level.
higher than all of those.

you don't get any higher than Presence, its impossible. PM might be equal to the Presence, same as Beyonder

xJLxKing
Originally posted by galactusischere
HoM wanda was almost LT level.
higher than all of those.

you don't get any higher than Presence, its impossible. PM might be equal to the Presence, same as Beyonder
No, there are statement to prove otherwise.

galactusischere
Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, there are statement to prove otherwise.
HoM wanda part of my statement or PM and Presence one??

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
HoM wanda was almost LT level.
higher than all of those.

you don't get any higher than Presence, its impossible. PM might be equal to the Presence, same as Beyonder
HOM Wanda is LT level based on what?

xJLxKing
Originally posted by galactusischere
HoM wanda part of my statement or PM and Presence one??
PM and Presence

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
HoM wanda part of my statement or PM and Presence one??
The Primal Monitor sent a probe into the DCU and discovered story, story which included the Presence. The Presence is just a very large germ to the PM depending on how you look at it or the Presence and the PM are one in the same.

galactusischere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The Primal Monitor sent a probe into the DCU and discovered story, story which included the Presence. The Presence is just a very large germ to the PM depending on how you look at it or the Presence and the PM are one in the same.

hmm..ok u probably know more about DC than me.
but how is PM more powerful than the supreme being of DC?
HoM wanda was messing with the 616 universe with mere thoughts.
She even effortlessly destroyed Galactus.
Who in marvel below LT can do that?

xJLxKing
It depends if you view Presence as the creator of DCU. PM certainly isn't. He is the one who noticed it and send a probe to monitor what it was.

If you view Presence as the creator then, PM>Presence
IF you view Presence as a omnipotent being then you can say they are the same thing
Though, Presence pretty much admitted he is shaped by other forces stronger then him.

galactusischere
Originally posted by xJLxKing
It depends if you view Presence as the creator of DCU. PM certainly isn't. He is the one who noticed it and send a probe to monitor what it was.

If you view Presence as the creator then, PM>Presence
IF you view Presence as a omnipotent being then you can say they are the same thing
Though, Presence pretty much admitted he is shaped by other forces stronger then him.

DC hierarcy is alot more confusing that Marvel hierarchy..

SoulDevourer
so PM wuz outside DCU?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
hmm..ok u probably know more about DC than me.
but how is PM more powerful than the supreme being of DC?
HoM wanda was messing with the 616 universe with mere thoughts.
She even effortlessly destroyed Galactus.
Who in marvel below LT can do that?
Think of the PM and Presence in these terms:
The Presence is the supreme fish in a pond while the PM is like a man throwing fish food into the pond. The PM isn't part of the DCU proper, not even to the extent that the Presence is external, he's outside of creation: he's on the level of the reader. Indeed the PM is the reader (or writer, its not that clear).

Any decent high end reality warper could blink out Galactus. MJJ certainly could, so could EJ and Mxy. Hell WF Mxy was killing the Spectre's alternate versions for fun.

xJLxKing
DC is messed up. Now we got Nekron as well. Just what we need.

Yup. Primal Monitor is like a never ending void, inside it there is a germ that he discovered one day. This germ was DCU(everything in it). He sent a probe in there(which is Mandrakk). The same Mandrakk who was later eating DCU.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
DC hierarcy is alot more confusing that Marvel hierarchy..
No argument there. It helps that Vertigo and DC are now mostly separate now.

xJLxKing
Vertigo and DC aren't separated.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Vertigo and DC aren't separated.
They don't cross over as much anymore. Except for Zatanna and Phantom Stranger for some reason.

xJLxKing
and Presence, and a few other too. Spectre(not in a while tho). Either way, it should be with DC

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by xJLxKing

Yup. Primal Monitor is like a never ending void, inside it there is a germ that he discovered one day. This germ was DCU(everything in it). He sent a probe in there(which is Mandrakk). The same Mandrakk who was later eating DCU. so if he wuz outside DCU...then who wrote him? not DC staff, so this means theres a bigger company (WAY bigger) and DCs only a branch of it, so...whats the name o that company? stick out tongue

Omega Vision
Its been quite some time since a Vertigo based character has entered the DCU (minus cameos). DC characters show up in Vertigo all the time, especially Zatanna and PS.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
so if he wuz outside DCU...then who wrote him? not DC staff, so this means theres a bigger company & DCs only a branch of it, so...whats the name o that company? stick out tongue
Warner Brothers. Duh.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
so if he wuz outside DCU...then who wrote him? not DC staff, so this means theres a bigger company (WAY bigger) and DCs only a branch of it, so...whats the name o that company? stick out tongue
Imo, PM could represent the creator, or author of DCU who doesn't think about what to write, but "explore" laughing out loud

Or the writer who didn't create DCU, but we see it. In a way we are MANDRAKK!!! eek! roll eyes (sarcastic)

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Omega Vision

Any decent high end reality warper could blink out Galactus. MJJ certainly could, actualy has he ever blink any1 outa existence? like, erased them (on panel i mean)

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Imo, PM could represent the creator, or author of DCU who doesn't think about what to write, but "explore" laughing out loud but that could also be the Presence, whose always present! big grin (like TOAA for Marvel, = writers)

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Warner Brothers. Duh. OMG maybe PM is a toon?!! teehee that explain everythin

Omega Vision
Yeah Mandrakk was a stand in for over demanding comics fans who don't care about imaginative stories and just want "realism" in much the same way Superboy-Prime was a stand in for over demanding fans obsessed with coherent continuity (hence the "you're not the real X!" and always searching for his "perfect" Earth) Ironically that includes pretty much everyone who hates Final Crisis for its non-linear plot.

galactusischere
Originally posted by Omega Vision


Any decent high end reality warper could blink out Galactus. MJJ certainly could, so could EJ and Mxy. Hell WF Mxy was killing the Spectre's alternate versions for fun.
I said Marvel.
and no MJJ can't blink galactus out of existence.
Galactus would lose to MJJ without much effort but not that easily.
though there is a version of Galactus that can take MJJ

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
I said Marvel.
and no MJJ can't blink galactus out of existence.
Galactus would lose to MJJ without much effort but not that easily.
though there is a version of Galactus that can take MJJ
HOM Wanda was universal for the most part. I wouldn't put her so high. EJ did what she did and more and he did it for shits and giggles, WF Mxy was casually destroying universes and a weaker version of MJJ survived his Universe's nullification.

galactusischere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
HOM Wanda was universal for the most part. I wouldn't put her so high. EJ did what she did and more and he did it for shits and giggles, WF Mxy was casually destroying universes and a weaker version of MJJ survived his Universe's nullification.

Ultimate Nullifier>Celestial Nullifier.

BCA Galactus>616 MJJ>238 MJJ

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
Ultimate Nullifier>Celestial Nullifier.

BCA Galactus>616 MJJ>238 MJJ
What did BCA Galactus do that's so impressive?

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Omega Vision
HOM Wanda was universal for the most part. I wouldn't put her so high. EJ did what she did and more and he did it for shits and giggles, WF Mxy was casually destroying universes and a weaker version of MJJ survived his Universe's nullification. ? MJJ238 (weaker version) wuz erased along w/238. MJJ616 can survive the CN but hed also lose his powers

galactusischere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
What did BCA Galactus do that's so impressive?

he was eating all reality.
made LT interfere

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
he was eating all reality.
made LT interfere
So pretty much Mandrakk-lite then?

SoulDevourer
BCA Galactus dont even make no sense
i mean alternate caracters are suppose to be WEAKER then there 616 versions, not stronger huh (thats how it usualy works anyway)

galactusischere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
So pretty much Mandrakk-lite then?
616 Galactus's hunger and mind were tampered with by Tiamut the dreaming celestial/communicator so that hes hunger would not end even after he ate entire universes.
He was basically doing the same thing as Mandrakk but wasn't as powerful.
He was probably around AM level.

galactusischere
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
BCA Galactus dont even make no sense
i mean alternate caracters are suppose to be WEAKER then there 616 versions, not stronger huh (thats how it usualy works anyway)
BCA big G WAS 616 galactus. just from a few years into the future.

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by galactusischere

He was basically doing the same thing as Mandrakk but wasn't as powerful.
He was probably around AM level. AM < Mandrakk? confused

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by galactusischere
BCA big G WAS 616 galactus. just from a few years into the future. iirc they say its alternate timeline so alternate reality...**** i prolly mixed up with somethin else (again sad)

galactusischere
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
AM < Mandrakk? confused
Mandrakk is more powerful.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
AM < Mandrakk? confused
Duh. AM was powerful but Mandrakk was eating everything including (most likely) the Presence.

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by galactusischere
Mandrakk is more powerful. AM second only to PM. Mandrak came after. at vrey least there equals (kinda like oposites)

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Duh. AM was powerful but Mandrakk was eating everything including (most likely) the Presence. um so wuz AM. hed eaten like infinity of universes (they even say it onpanel) allmost off of DCU in fact & only 1 universe wuz left

to fight him Specter had to become even more powerful then Presence! (yeah that dont make no sense but they say that too onpanel)

Galan007
stops at 12 or 13.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
AM second only to PM. Mandrak came after. at vrey least there equals (kinda like oposites)
It's not stated exactly what the relationship was between Dax Novu and the Monitor from COIE but by all indications Mandrakk was more powerful.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
um so wuz AM. hed eaten like infinity of universes (they even say it onpanel) allmost off of DCU in fact & only 1 universe wuz left

to fight him Specter had to become even more powerful then Presence! (yeah that dont make no sense but they say that too onpanel)
The Spectre wasn't more powerful than the Presence. Where did you glean that from?

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The Spectre wasn't more powerful than the Presence. Where did you glean that from? ONPANEL. i kno its been som time but im like 9.9999999999% sure of it

Omega Vision
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
ONPANEL. i kno its been som time but im like 9.999999999999% sure of it
He wasn't more powerful than God, I can assure you of that. He was amped by plenty of powerful magic users but that wouldn't make him the Presence's superior or even peer.

galactusischere
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
ONPANEL. i kno its been som time but im like 9.9999999999% sure of it
so..
almost TEN percent sure? big grin

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
so..
almost TEN percent sure? big grin
Those are Texas odds!

xJLxKing
Spectre was never more powerful than his master.
Mandrakk beats AM

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Omega Vision
He wasn't more powerful than God, I can assure you of that. He was amped by plenty of powerful magic users but that wouldn't make him the Presence's superior or even peer. yeawell they said it onpanel, n it wuz that fight where they all give him a boost to fight AM, for f sake man im sure of it! sad

Originally posted by galactusischere
so..
almost TEN percent sure? big grin grr u know i ment 99.999999999% mad mad mad

Omega Vision
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
yeawell they said it onpanel, n it wuz that fight where they all give him a boost to fight AM, for f sake man im sure of it! sad

grr u know i ment 99.999999999% mad mad mad
I just reread the part of that issue of COIE you're referring to. The Spectre is said to "see things undreamt of even by his master" but that's probably not indicative of greater power so much as the fact that all of creation was coming to pieces around him. That was about as strong as the Spectre has ever been on panel but there's nothing supporting him being the Presence's superior in any way. If he was he wouldn't have had a problem stopping the AM.

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Omega Vision

I just reread the part of that issue of COIE you're referring to. The Spectre is said to "see things undreamt of even by his master" but that's probably not indicative of greater power so much as the fact that all of creation was coming to pieces around him. yeah thats prolly it

huh its prety clear IMO it means he knew things that even Presence dint know huh

Omega Vision
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
yeah thats prolly it

huh its prety clear IMO it means he knew things that even Presence dint know huh
He saw worlds that didn't exist, its the same sort of thing that always happens when a character stands on a fault line of reality. Creation was splitting apart at the seams.

SoulDevourer
Originally posted by Omega Vision

He saw worlds that didn't existthats rilly stretchin tho, all it says on panel it that he see things, not imagine em in his head


basicly u think that what he sees is like a drunk guy seeing pink elephants or somethin? evil face

sure but Presence is suppose to be outside & hav made all that shit, so he shoud know what it be like if it split apart

unless its only Vertigo version o Presence, then it all make sense I guess (and PM would be "true" god of DC)

kevdude
Stops at 12, 13.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
thats rilly stretchin tho, all it says on panel it that he see things, not imagine em in his head


basicly u think that what he sees is like a drunk guy seeing pink elephants or somethin? evil face

sure but Presence is suppose to be outside & hav made all that shit, so he shoud know what it be like if it split apart

unless its only Vertigo version o Presence, then it all make sense I guess (and PM would be "true" god of DC)
But PM didn't make DCU

quanchi112
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Vertigo and DC aren't separated. So they aren't two separate realities?

KuRuPT Thanosi
I thought Mandrakk threads were supposed to be closed? He beats most on this list and falls to a few

Philosophía
13.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by quanchi112
So they aren't two separate realities?
Like all things pertaining to DC comics its really complicated. The Phantom Stranger and Zatanna exist in both while Superman usually only exists in DC and John Constantine of late only exists in Vertigo. Less clear is the Spectre and Swamp Thing.

Juntai
Originally posted by quanchi112
So they aren't two separate realities? They are separate. Vertigo isn't even a consistent universe.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Juntai
They are separate. Vertigo isn't even a consistent universe.
I hated that First of the Fallen bullshit.
"So as you can see Lucifer wasn't the first or even the second or third fallen angel, these guys were. Lucifer was just a poser who took control later." That's what I got out of that mess.
sad

Prep-Man
Both DC and Vertigo are in the same realm. Some of it's in continuity and some of it's not. We've seen both characters cross over. Recently, Phantom Stranger is in Madam Xanaduu series.

Blanket
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Think of the PM and Presence in these terms:
The Presence is the supreme fish in a pond while the PM is like a man throwing fish food into the pond. The PM isn't part of the DCU proper, not even to the extent that the Presence is external, he's outside of creation: he's on the level of the reader. Indeed the PM is the reader (or writer, its not that clear).

Any decent high end reality warper could blink out Galactus. MJJ certainly could, so could EJ and Mxy. Hell WF Mxy was killing the Spectre's alternate versions for fun. I can almost guarantee you're also against arguments such as Beyonder is the editor...

Anyway, when reality was being destroyed and all the heroes were getting twisted and distorted by the IG battle, Galactus was still able to fight through it and summon his ship. Hell, the guy was standing at the edge of time and space eating shit. I doubt any decent reality warper could blink him out, and I really doubt MJJ could do it.

galactusischere
Originally posted by Blanket
I can almost guarantee you're also against arguments such as Beyonder is the editor...

Anyway, when reality was being destroyed and all the heroes were getting twisted and distorted by the IG battle, Galactus was still able to fight through it and summon his ship. Hell, the guy was standing at the edge of time and space eating shit. I doubt any decent reality warper could blink him out, and I really doubt MJJ could do it.

exactly.
no one short of LT can blink Galactus out of existence

quanchi112
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Like all things pertaining to DC comics its really complicated. The Phantom Stranger and Zatanna exist in both while Superman usually only exists in DC and John Constantine of late only exists in Vertigo. Less clear is the Spectre and Swamp Thing. No, they exist in separate realities though as a whole. Didio further backed this up in an interview when asked this very question.

Originally posted by Juntai
They are separate. Vertigo isn't even a consistent universe. Agreed.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, they exist in separate realities though as a whole. Didio further backed this up in an interview when asked this very question.

Agreed.

Vertigo is a number of universes, but the one where it features DC characters is apart of the multiverse as stated by DD.

theICONiac
I ain't touching this with a 10-ft green stake.

baha

Tattoos N Scars
Primal Monitor can't be the Presence. The Presence interacts too much in Vertigo/DC. The Presence knows and gives power to Spectre. Also, the Presence interacts with Michael and Lucifer.

The Primal Monitor knew nothing of them...well, DC anyway....I'd imagine that Vertigo would be a germ too..lol. The PM knew nothing of DC/maybe Vertigo until he noticed a germ and sent Mandrakk

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Primal Monitor can't be the Presence. The Presence interacts too much in Vertigo/DC. The Presence knows and gives power to Spectre. Also, the Presence interacts with Michael and Lucifer.

The Primal Monitor knew nothing of them...well, DC anyway....I'd imagine that Vertigo would be a germ too..lol. The PM knew nothing of DC/maybe Vertigo until he noticed a germ and sent Mandrakk

That's a good point.

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