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Ug. Team 2. Speed.

close match...if thor fights supes team 1 wins...if WW fights supes team 2 wins

Agreed^^ But i knew someone would factor in speed. what about magic causing team 2 to lose do to superman being the weak link?

Originally posted by BattleMage
Agreed^^ But i knew someone would factor in speed. what about magic causing team 2 to lose do to superman being the weak link?

I agree.

Much as with the the other, similar, threads, this is a tough call, as each side has holes (Diana not quite as durable as the others; Thor not as fast on the move; Superman vulnerable to magical attacks; Captain Marvel being the least "skilled" in combat, which normally wouldn't matter except he's up against two of the best fighters in DC/Marvel).

Think I'll have to go 5/5 on this, as I did with the other combinations. Circumstance just plays too big a hand when dealing with these types of combos, as each has edges over the other.

But it'd be one hell of a fight, regardless...

Team 2.

Originally posted by tideoftime
I agree.

Much as with the the other, similar, threads, this is a tough call, as each side has holes (Diana not quite as durable as the others; Thor not as fast on the move; Superman vulnerable to magical attacks; Captain Marvel being the least "skilled" in combat, which normally wouldn't matter except he's up against two of the best fighters in DC/Marvel).

Think I'll have to go 5/5 on this, as I did with the other combinations. Circumstance just plays too big a hand when dealing with these types of combos, as each has edges over the other.

But it'd be one hell of a fight, regardless... CM least skilled? Last i checked superman was not a skilled h2h fighter in any art form other than brawler!

Originally posted by BattleMage
CM least skilled? Last i checked superman was not a skilled h2h fighter in any art form other than brawler!

Supes and WW spar/work out semi-regularly in JL/WW. But my point to that was really in reference to the opposition, as he isn't fighting Superman in this scenario. Should have been more clear. My bad.

CM is the least experienced by numbers, but his boxing skills against Supes has always looked impressive. That Wisdom of Solomon boi.

I'm liking the fact that Wondy and Thor have so many "magical" tricks up their sleeves. They win barely because Supes is still a beast and Captain Marvel is as tough as they come.

Team 2 5.5/10

TRue to that.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
CM is the least experienced by numbers, but his boxing skills against Supes has always looked impressive. That Wisdom of Solomon boi. Captain Marvel has no battle experience compared to Superman and Wonder Woman and Thor. Wisdom of Solomon doesn't give him Experience or skill. Solomon wasn't a fighter.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Superman has no battle experience compared to Superman ???

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Superman has no battle experience compared to Superman and Wonder Woman and Thor. Wisdom of Solomon doesn't give him Experience or skill. Solomon wasn't a fighter.

Solomon's knowledge base is rather vague. He is learned in tactics though.Even if you don't attribute it to the Wisdom of Solomon, the fighting skill Marvel does have (and its pretty good) has to come from at least one his attributes. Maybe Achilles.

Certainly can't come from his own experience as Teenage Billy lol.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Solomon's knowledge base is rather vague. He is learned in tactics though.Even if you don't attribute it to the Wisdom of Solomon, the fighting skill Marvel does have (and its pretty good) has to come from at least one his attributes. Maybe Achilles.

Certainly can't come from his own experience as Teenage Billy lol. In a forum battle, he isn't out experiencing the other three in skill. WW,Thor and Superman all have literal Thousands of years fighting experience.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Solomon's knowledge base is rather vague. He is learned in tactics though.Even if you don't attribute it to the Wisdom of Solomon, the fighting skill Marvel does have (and its pretty good) has to come from at least one his attributes. Maybe Achilles.

Certainly can't come from his own experience as Teenage Billy lol.

And much like Diana's (much under-written) Wisdom of Athena, Cap potentially has the ability to understand/have useful insight into a situation -- even combat -- that might take some by surprise. But much as his blessings are more overtly physical (as the Romans were conceptually "flat" and literal) -- having more immediate divine blessings that are physical, as opposed to some of WW's more esoteric blessings (as the Greeks were more abstact), which is part of why her skill/finesse is much greater, this usually doesn't get much play on the page.

Hence I said in my first post that he has the least experience.


Nowhere did I say he was out experiencing anyone.

And in a forum battle the battle skills he has displayed despite his conventional experience being no greater than a 12 year old boy is not discounted. Hence, his getting some kind of battle experience from somewhere. He's no less skilled than Superman by showings. Not at WW or Thor levels, but skill has its plateaus.

Originally posted by tideoftime
And much like Diana's (much under-written) Wisdom of Athena, Cap potentially has the ability to understand/have useful insight into a situation -- even combat -- that might take some by surprise. But much as his blessings are more overtly physical (as the Romans were conceptually "flat" and literal) -- having more immediate divine blessings that are physical, as opposed to some of WW's more esoteric blessings (as the Greeks were more abstact), which is part of why her skill/finesse is much greater, this usually doesn't get much play on the page. Check the Respect thread. The skills section is good. They forgot and left out the fight she had with the Meta Ninja tho.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Check the Respect thread. The skills section is good. They forgot and left out the fight she had with the Meta Ninja tho.

You mean the one where she was teamed up with Jessie Quick? Or a later encounter? (It's late, I'm tired, and stuff is getting wonky )

Originally posted by tideoftime
You mean the one where she was teamed up with Jessie Quick? Or a later encounter? (It's late, I'm tired, and stuff is getting wonky ) There was a later encounter where she was fighting some meta ninja. I think it was a jla book. The ninja negated all of her powers and she had to fight totally with martial arts skills alone.

T2 all day

Originally posted by bbrem123
close match...if thor fights supes team 1 wins...if WW fights supes team 2 wins

This is pretty accurate.

Unless Diana gets Marvel or Superman in her lasso or stays behind her force field she gets put down. Especially if it's Superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is pretty accurate.

Unless Diana gets Marvel or Superman in her lasso or stays behind her force field she gets put down. Especially if it's Superman. not really. superman is actually superior to thor both in fighting and in power level. thor's magic is overrated.

Originally posted by Starscream M
not really. superman is actually superior to thor both in fighting and in power level. thor's magic is overrated.



First of all I said Superman's team wins.

Second of all, how exactly is Superman a better fighter than Thor, and how exactly is Superman more powerful than Thor?

Thor's magic is overrated? Heh.

Third of all, did I even mention of how Thor/Superman match up to each other?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


First of all I said Superman's team wins.

Second of all, how exactly is Superman a better fighter than Thor, and how exactly is Superman more powerful than Thor?

Thor's magic is overrated? Heh.

Third of all, did I even mention of how Thor/Superman match up to each other? yeah, you made it sound like if superman faced thor, he would lose

superman is a better fighter than thor because of higher punching power, reflexes, flight being better incorporated into his attacks, etc...need I go on?

Superman is more powerful than thor in that he is stronger and much much faster.

Yes, thor's magic is overrated.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah, you made it sound like if superman faced thor, he would lose

superman is a better fighter than thor because of higher punching power, reflexes, flight being better incorporated into his attacks, etc...need I go on?

Superman is more powerful than thor in that he is stronger and much much faster.

Yes, thor's magic is overrated. I disagree with most of this.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah, you made it sound like if superman faced thor, he would lose

I agreed that Wonder Woman would lose it for Team 1. I think unless she shields herself or gets lucky with the Lasso, either of Team 2 beats her and Team 2 double teams Thor. Either of Team 2 are strong enough that they can either take on Thor and keep him busy. Thor would have to stop brawling and bust out his power set if he wants to win it for his team, but on average, it's more likely he brawls against his team mate.

And yes, if Thor faced Superman in a real fight, he would win.

Originally posted by Starscream M
superman is a better fighter than thor because of higher punching power, reflexes, flight being better incorporated into his attacks, etc...need I go on?

Superman is more powerful than thor in that he is stronger and much much faster.

Yes, thor's magic is overrated.

You have a really different definition of someone being a better fighter than I do.

Punching power? Easily debatable. Even if we go by the interpretations that Thor hits harder with Mjolnir than without, the difference is really minor between them. If Superman's punching power is harder than Thor's punching power, which an argument could be made for as Superman has more feats of pure punching power, the difference would be so small it would not be very significant at all.

Thor can incorporate his flight speed into his attacks really well too. I was just flipping through the first few issues of Beta Ray Bill, and he was fighting against Skuttlebutt and even tossing Mjlonir at it and at the same time keeping up with it, and Skuttlebutt was stated as going multiple times the speed of light.

Thor's reflexes aren't exactly bad either.

Yes, please do go on. How about we make a list?

Thor is has much better defensive capabilities, and has much better offensive output in terms of power. Thor is much more versatile as well. He can teleport, he can manipulate matter, he can manipulate energy as well to a ridiculous degree. Everything from magnetic forces, to gravity, to cosmic energy etc. He has countless random shit, like turning things intangible and invisible, erasing peoples minds or communicating through telepathy, manipulating life forces and souls, he can sense energy signatures and track them down, create illusions and images, see things that are happening across dimensions, illusion dispersion etc. His also the God of Thunder and has everything that entitles. I can go all day if I want to by listing what Thor can do better than Superman.

Oh noes, Superman can maybe, possibly hit harder than Thor, and has better reflexes. SUPER POWER > THOR POWAHH!!!

Superman being more effective in physical prowess, does not indicate that he is more powerful than Thor.

What is your definition of being more powerful?

Did you completely ignore what Thor can do when you came to the conclusion his more powerful than Thor?

Superman has better body movement obviously. Thor has comparable flight speed even without Mjolnir.

No his magic really isn't. Clark's just lucky most people don't take into account the fact that he is as vulnerable to magic as anyone else or not particularly invulnerable to it at beast when they figure who would win in a fight between Thor or Superman like I do.

I've seen Werewolves and Vampires hurt and/or **** Superman's shit up as I recall. I'm pretty sure about the Werewolves part.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah, you made it sound like if superman faced thor, he would lose

superman is a better fighter than thor because of higher punching power, reflexes, flight being better incorporated into his attacks, etc...need I go on?

Superman is more powerful than thor in that he is stronger and much much faster.

Yes, thor's magic is overrated.

whoa...

I have over the past week or so been finding myself in the position of defending Wonder Woman to those who don't know the character well/underrate her; I now have to tag over to Thor on this one.

While I think Thor as a *character* is often overrated (mind you, I like Thor), I wouldn't go as far as you have. Thor's magical abilities are certainly strong enough to screw with Superman, royally, and while Supes is faster and more immediately invulnerable, in terms of HtH, I'd put them about equal in strength, with Thor's power as a god compensating to a good degree for the difference in relative speed. Now, I'm not a fanboi in eithers favor: Thor has got some edge on Superman, but only a fool would think Supes couldn't get over on Thor, if he needed to. A tough fight, with the likely victory going to whomever can get the most "drop" shots in fast enough (Thor via Mjolner, or Superman via speed/secondary powers) -- and speed isn't a automatic in this particular battle.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I agreed that Wonder Woman would lose it for Team 1. I think unless she shields herself or gets lucky with the Lasso, either of Team 2 beats her and Team 2 double teams Thor. Either of Team 2 are strong enough that they can either take on Thor and keep him busy. Thor would have to stop brawling and bust out his power set if he wants to win it for his team, but on average, it's more likely he brawls against his team mate.

And yes, if Thor faced Superman in a real fight, he would win.



You have a really different definition of someone being a better fighter than I do.

Punching power? Easily debatable. Even if we go by the interpretations that Thor hits harder with Mjolnir than without, the difference is really minor between them. If Superman's punching power is harder than Thor's punching power, which an argument could be made for as Superman has more feats of pure punching power, the difference would be so small it would not be very significant at all.

Thor can incorporate his flight speed into his attacks really well too. I was just flipping through the first few issues of Beta Ray Bill, and he was fighting against Skuttlebutt and even tossing Mjlonir at it and at the same time keeping up with it, and Skuttlebutt was stated as going multiple times the speed of light.

Thor's reflexes aren't exactly bad either.

Yes, please do go on. How about we make a list?

Thor is has much better defensive capabilities, and has much better offensive output in terms of power. Thor is much more versatile as well. He can teleport, he can manipulate matter, he can manipulate energy as well to a ridiculous degree. Everything from magnetic forces, to gravity, to cosmic energy etc. He has countless random shit, like turning things intangible and invisible, erasing peoples minds or communicating through telepathy, manipulating life forces and souls, he can sense energy signatures and track them down, create illusions and images, see things that are happening across dimensions, illusion dispersion etc. His also the God of Thunder and has everything that entitles. I can go all day if I want to by listing what Thor can do better than Superman.

Oh noes, Superman can maybe, possibly hit harder than Thor, and has better reflexes. SUPER POWER > THOR POWAHH!!!

Superman being more effective in physical prowess, does not indicate that he is more powerful than Thor.

What is your definition of being more powerful?

Did you completely ignore what Thor can do when you came to the conclusion his more powerful than Thor?

Superman has better body movement obviously. Thor has comparable flight speed even without Mjolnir.

No his magic really isn't. Clark's just lucky most people don't take into account the fact that he is as vulnerable to magic as anyone else or not particularly invulnerable to it at beast when they figure who would win in a fight between Thor or Superman like I do.

I've seen Werewolves and Vampires hurt and/or **** Superman's shit up as I recall. I'm pretty sure about the Werewolves part.

sigh...I should know better than to debate you on anything to do with thor.

yes, I'm aware of thor's various powers....the problem is most of them are quiet useless against an enemy as fast as superman.

and superman is vastly faster than thor. thor was speedblitzed by gladiator, and superman would make gladiator look slow in comparison.

superman isn't really any more vulnerable to magic these days than any other character.

Originally posted by tideoftime
whoa...

I have over the past week or so been finding myself in the position of defending Wonder Woman to those who don't know the character well/underrate her; I now have to tag over to Thor on this one.

While I think Thor as a *character* is often overrated (mind you, I like Thor), I wouldn't go as far as you have. Thor's magical abilities are certainly strong enough to screw with Superman, royally, and while Supes is faster and more immediately invulnerable, in terms of HtH, I'd put them about equal in strength, with Thor's power as a god compensating to a good degree for the difference in relative speed. Now, I'm not a fanboi in eithers favor: Thor has got some edge on Superman, but only a fool would think Supes couldn't get over on Thor, if he needed to. A tough fight, with the likely victory going to whomever can get the most "drop" shots in fast enough (Thor via Mjolner, or Superman via speed/secondary powers) -- and speed isn't a automatic in this particular battle. I never said it would be an easy fight for superman. but if we go by forum rules, I think superman's speed would out-trump thor's versatility.

if they fought in a comic, then it would prob be a draw.

Bruce, I'm going to bed. I'm too tired for you right now. I'm going to have too educate you tomorrow.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Bruce, I'm going to bed. I'm too tired for you right now. I'm going to have too educate you tomorrow. lol ok, gnite.

Superman does this.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/th_Supermanvol2163p01.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/th_Nervestrike.jpg

Originally posted by Spire
Superman does this.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/th_Supermanvol2163p01.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/th_Nervestrike.jpg

While taking a low feat can cause a number of people to cry "Foul", I have to say: Good Homework! You get a gold star!

(Would only work out that way in a slanted story, but still... that was a pretty awesome duel-scan... tip'o the hat, as Colbert would say...)

Team one wins, while team two may have more speed and strength, team one is better equipped

Originally posted by BattleMage
CM least skilled? Last i checked superman was not a skilled h2h fighter in any art form other than brawler!

then you need to check more.

team 2.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
In a forum battle, he isn't out experiencing the other three in skill. WW,Thor and Superman all have literal Thousands of years fighting experience. Superman has Thousands of years fighting experience. Since when?

More underestimating WW. I'm to tired to deal with it.

Suffice it to say this i a 5/10 split. If I had to give the slight edge to one team i would be 1, due to Thor. WW has before and can again stalemate Marvel. Add in her lasso and she is extremely dangerous to him. Diana knows exactly what she needs to do to beat CM and you can bet she will. And Rage.of.Olympus, luck has nothing to do with her lassoing him. It's called speed and skill.

Thor and Supes would also probably fight to a stalemate, but I would give the slight edge to Thor.

If the pairings are switched, WW would probably lose to Supes after a long fight, but Marvel goes down to Thor as well. I don't know which would happen first.

Originally posted by Spire
Superman does this.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/th_Supermanvol2163p01.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/th_Nervestrike.jpg All i have to say is

Originally posted by Starscream M
sigh...I should know better than to debate you on anything to do with thor.

yes, I'm aware of thor's various powers....the problem is most of them are quiet useless against an enemy as fast as superman.

and superman is vastly faster than thor. thor was speedblitzed by gladiator, and superman would make gladiator look slow in comparison.

superman isn't really any more vulnerable to magic these days than any other character.


SPEED BLITZ......SPEED BLITZZZ...


get lost dude this speed blitzshit dont work in theses forums thor beats supes on theses boards all the time. this fight can go either way.

50/50

Originally posted by BattleMage
Superman has Thousands of years fighting experience. Since when?

since he spent a thousand years in DC's asgard fighting against giant monsters alongside wonder woman, wielding thor's hammer for a portion of it?

Team 1 probably (Probably) wins this.
- both "warriors born" which gives them an edge in ferocity.
- T1 has more battle skill/experience. Tactically, WW will sic Thor on Supes while she stalls CM long enough for Thor (using "Full Potential" Mjolnir) to trump Superman. Then 2>1 = CM goes down.
- magic
- edge in versatility

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah, you made it sound like if superman faced thor, he would lose

superman is a better fighter than thor because of higher punching power, reflexes, flight being better incorporated into his attacks, etc...need I go on?

Superman is more powerful than thor in that he is stronger and much much faster.

Yes, thor's magic is overrated.


however team 2 should win

Originally posted by Spire
Superman does this.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/th_Supermanvol2163p01.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/th_Nervestrike.jpg



Oh really? Because clearly "Tempest=Thor" physically and Superman is anywhere as skilled as Mantis right?

Are you really trying to pass off the Mantis thing as something Clark can do, when at that time, she one shot an Elder of the Universe with one of those attacks, a giant ant for some reason, and dropped Vision a freaking android with her attack somehow to etc. Heck, he the writer had her toss Thor, Iron Man, Black Panther and Vision who were trying to restrain her like a sack of potatoes as I recall. That writer though called Thor invulnerable I believe. He also had her literally state when she was taking on the Avengers, that against her no matter how strong you are, it doesn't matter because her skill is too great. They literally gave no other reason than she was "that" good. She was the Karate Kid of Marvel in that era. She had the entire I can see weaknesses in an opponent thing going as I recall.....

I might as well post scans of Atlas beating the shit out of Superman because of the entire magic shtick, and say Thor would do it....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Superman/th_Atlasbeating6.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Superman/th_Atlasbeating7.jpg

^funny Superman KO'ed him in one hit later

Originally posted by Starscream M
sigh...I should know better than to debate you on anything to do with thor.

yes, I'm aware of thor's various powers....the problem is most of them are quiet useless against an enemy as fast as superman.

and superman is vastly faster than thor. thor was speedblitzed by gladiator, and superman would make gladiator look slow in comparison.

superman isn't really any more vulnerable to magic these days than any other character.



Sure they are.

Faster in what way? Body movement? Sure. Thor has some pretty impressive reflexes and his own flight speed far beyond light, that means it's nothing he can't handle.

Speed blitzed by Gladiator? Gladiator got the jump on Thor by knocking the hammer out of his hand when Thor had his back turned destroying debree around as I recalled (Which wouldn't happen if Thor willed it to stay in his hand.). And you know why Gladiator isn't exactly a helpful example? Thor was so fast that he was beating on Gladiator before he could react it either, once he stopped fooling around so I really don't see how that proves anything....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_DefeatsGladiator9.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_DefeatsGladiator10.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_DefeatsGladiator11.jpg

Slow? The dude had ridiculous combat speed showings such as his fight against Hyperion. Or the time he was keeping up with the Avengers, and Thor even though the fact that the entire time thing sped them up to the point it's as if everything was standing still in time in comparison to them, and Gladiator was keeping up just fine. His also moved at speeds countless times faster than light etc.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Faster in what way? Body movement? Sure. Thor has some pretty impressive reflexes and his own flight speed far beyond light, that means it's nothing he can't handle.

Faster.In.Every.Friggin.Way.Imaginable

Superman is mentally faster (ie calculations, memory recall, etc).

Superman can react faster.

Superman can hit faster.

Superman can fly faster.

Superman can run faster.

Superman can dodge faster.

Thor can fly at lightspeed? good for him. can he turn on a dime and zig zag at lightspeed....NO. All he can do is travel at lightspeed...which isn't gonna help him in a fight.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Faster.In.Every.Friggin.Way.Imaginable

Superman is mentally faster (ie calculations, memory recall, etc).

Superman can react faster.

Superman can hit faster.

Superman can fly faster.

Superman can run faster.

Superman can dodge faster.

Thor can fly at lightspeed? good for him. can he turn on a dime and zig zag at lightspeed....NO. All he can do is travel at lightspeed...which isn't gonna help him in a fight.

Yea, his processing speed is faster. Especially recently.

True. Thor isn't slow though. His shown evidence of possessing faster than light reflexes.

Debatable if Thor is using Mjolnir.

Debatable.

That's a given.

Yes he is.

Thor was doing fine, and even dodging attacks from Skuttlebutt when they were moving at speeds much faster than light apparently. Even without Mjolnir Thor has some decent control of his ability to fly.

Imo, the thing about Thor and Superman is that their power are very close to each other. What they lack in one category, they make up for it on the other.
Superman is stronger, and just as durable. Thor might not has the same strength, but his power like GodBlast, and other trick make up for it. Superman is faster in anything speed related, but Thor does have Magic, or experience.

SO it comes down to people to choose if they thing experience, and magic advantage is better or Speed and slight strength advantage. If anyone wins it will be 6/10, or even a 5.5/10.

I personally thing Superman can win using his speed.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Imo, the thing about Thor and Superman is that their power are very close to each other. What they lack in one category, they make up for it on the other.
Superman is stronger, and just as durable. Thor might not has the same strength, but his power like GodBlast, and other trick make up for it. Superman is faster in anything speed related, but Thor does have Magic, or experience.

SO it comes down to people to choose if they thing experience, and magic advantage is better or Speed and slight strength advantage. If anyone wins it will be 6/10, or even a 5.5/10.

I personally thing Superman can win using his speed.

How much stronger is Superman in your opinion than Thor? Just wondering. Is it a very small difference, large etc.? If say, Superman is a 100 in strength, what would Thor be in your opinion?

Superman is strong enough to one-hand catch an all-out Thor hammer strike while standing down in a battle where everything was on the line, making Thor shocked by his strength only to be knocked unconscious by Superman's punch moments later.

As for the fight, Team 2 wins.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How much stronger is Superman in your opinion than Thor? Just wondering. Is it a very small difference, large etc.? If say, Superman is a 100 in strength, what would Thor be in your opinion?

Not to jump in, but I think before the current decade, Superman was marginally stronger (not in any major way, but to a degree). Nowadays, I would say they are about even, with Thor able to apply strength in combat just a readily as Supes (though Supes has an advantage of being able to apply his strength in ways that Thor can't readily do, due to the nature of Thor's flying ability, but that normally wouldn't have a bearing in most fights). Superman, Captain Marvel, and Thor are all about the same in strength, with marginal differences that don't make or break in anyone's favor. Just IMO.

EDIT: Of course, that could also be me "looking for the conceptual median-truth of the situation", and I could be wrong. But hey, whatever...

Originally posted by tideoftime
Not to jump in, but I think before the current decade, Superman was marginally stronger (not in any major way, but to a degree). Nowadays, I would say they are about even, with Thor able to apply strength in combat just a readily as Supes (though Supes has an advantage of being able to apply his strength in ways that Thor can't readily do, due to the nature of Thor's flying ability, but that normally wouldn't have a bearing in most fights). Superman, Captain Marvel, and Thor are all about the same in strength, with marginal differences that don't make or break in anyone's favor. Just IMO.
Not how it works. Most of Thor's feats are from the classic "era".

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How much stronger is Superman in your opinion than Thor? Just wondering. Is it a very small difference, large etc.? If say, Superman is a 100 in strength, what would Thor be in your opinion?
If Superman was level 100, Thor while not holding back would be 95-97

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How much stronger is Superman in your opinion than Thor? Just wondering. Is it a very small difference, large etc.? If say, Superman is a 100 in strength, what would Thor be in your opinion? I would say if superman is 100, thor is around 94

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Not how it works. Most of Thor's feats are from the classic "era".

Yeah, I know what you mean. But like my edit above says, I usually try to find the conceptual median-truth in the situation; all of these powerhouse characters have had variable interpretations of their expressed abilities, both high and low, over the decades. Conceptually, while I could easily see an arguement about Superman being measurably stronger, I can also see interpretations of Thor's power manifested through his strength, winning out in some cases.

But hey, it's just comics...

EDIT AGAIN: Using the old DC measuring system, if Superman were a 25, then Thor/Captain Marvel would be straddling at 24, with 25 depending on setting. (And with those statistics, Wonder Woman and Power Girl would have ratings of 23, 23 straddling 24 if CM and Thor are at 25.)

Originally posted by BattleMage
Agreed^^ But i knew someone would factor in speed. what about magic causing team 2 to lose do to superman being the weak link? They are all vulnerable against magic. Superman just isn't invulnerable to magic like he is to most normal physical attacks. Being a magic user or having magic powers does not make you immune.

Originally posted by BattleMage
CM least skilled? Last i checked superman was not a skilled h2h fighter in any art form other than brawler! Then you haven't checked Superman at all. He's shown calculated skills in combat and incorporated his own unique abilities while fighting. Your lack of knowledge regarding a character isn't an excuse to spout non-facts and inconsistencies regarding said character.

And the wisdom of Solomon does give Marvel access to all knowledge. Some writers show it as general knowledge and some take it a step further. Depends on who's writing.

Supes and Marvel can stalemate Thor long enough for the other to take out WW. Then Thor will be hard pressed against Supes and CM.

Team 2

Superman>>>Thor
CM>>>WW

team 2 stomps, then bang WW

Originally posted by Nihilist
Team 2

Superman>>>Thor
CM>>>WW Superman isn't greater than Thor by any means. Thor is more powerful and his reflexes are superior. I agree that Marvel is greater than WW, but she can definitely take him on while Thor beats Superman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman isn't greater than Thor by any means. Thor is more powerful and his reflexes are superior. I agree that Marvel is greater than WW, but she can definitely take him on while Thor beats Superman. Cap marvel can depower WW with lightning of zeus since she is powered by an olympion

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Cap marvel can depower WW with lightning of zeus since she is powered by an olympion No, he can't. Who does Marvel get his powers from? It's not Zeus there brah.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Cap marvel can depower WW with lightning of zeus since she is powered by an olympion

Now I think you're just being flip/looking to spark stuff.

That's utterly absurd. Where would you even get an idea like that?

The aspects of power that fuel CM and fuel WW are distinct and separate, even within the gods themselves (the only overlap being the Speed of Mercury/Hermes, and that investment is not "shared" by them, merely duplicated.)

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Oh really? Because clearly "Tempest=Thor" physically and Superman is anywhere as skilled as Mantis right?

Are you really trying to pass off the Mantis thing as something Clark can do, when at that time, she one shot an Elder of the Universe with one of those attacks, a giant ant for some reason, and dropped Vision a freaking android with her attack somehow to etc. Heck, he the writer had her toss Thor, Iron Man, Black Panther and Vision who were trying to restrain her like a sack of potatoes as I recall. That writer though called Thor invulnerable I believe. He also had her literally state when she was taking on the Avengers, that against her no matter how strong you are, it doesn't matter because her skill is too great. They literally gave no other reason than she was "that" good. She was the Karate Kid of Marvel in that era. She had the entire I can see weaknesses in an opponent thing going as I recall.....

I might as well post scans of Atlas beating the shit out of Superman because of the entire magic shtick, and say Thor would do it....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Superman/th_Atlasbeating6.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Superman/th_Atlasbeating7.jpg

Superman needs to be as skilled as Mantis to perform something he has already performed?

Nevermind that no skill was displayed in that scan and all it consists of was hitting a nerve with one's hand.

Lol at you raging and post scans of Atlas.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh goody goody.

I guess Thor does this.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Thor_1981_305_18.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/ActionComics779-17-1.jpg

Or WW could do this.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WonderWomanv221920.jpg

What a lame attempt at being a true Thor fan.

What were you trying to show with those scans? That Superman can be punched, hurt, cut?

We already know that.

What's worse is, he said Thor will Speed Blitz Superman

Thor's got such a great team-mate.....

Also, is Thor going to try and kill Superman? Doubt that. Only reason he hammered Air-Walker properly was because the thing was a robot, not an actual living being.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman isn't greater than Thor by any means. Thor is more powerful and his reflexes are superior. I agree that Marvel is greater than WW, but she can definitely take him on while Thor beats Superman. Thor aint greater than Supreman at all as proven.

Originally posted by Spire
What a lame attempt at being a true Thor fan.

What were you trying to show with those scans? That Superman can be punched, hurt, cut?

We already know that. Lame attempt, eh?

Superman had his jaw broken in the scan. It was crushed. A Superman fan should realize as much.

WW cut his throat with one tiara toss. His throat was utterly slashed. Both scans show him being physically assaulted. You post someone of uber skill getting Thor while his attention was elsewhere so I posted one scan of Superman's glass jaw when his attention was directed elsewhere.

Originally posted by Spire
Superman needs to be as skilled as Mantis to perform something he has already performed?

Nevermind that no skill was displayed in that scan and all it consists of was hitting a nerve with one's hand.

Lol at you raging and post scans of Atlas. The difference is this was a one on one fight in which Superman was dominated and needed the power of the sun to beat. He also was saved his his dog. LOL.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Thor's got such a great team-mate.....

Also, is Thor going to try and kill Superman? Doubt that. Only reason he hammered Air-Walker properly was because the thing was a robot, not an actual living being. Obviously. Thor doesn't just try to murder all his opponents on the spot. The moment he realized it was a machine he showed he had the power to destroy it with one hammer toss. This shows how much Thor holds back in most of his fights and what he is capable of.Originally posted by Nihilist
Thor aint greater than Supreman at all as proven. Proven? When?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Lame attempt, eh?

Superman had his jaw broken in the scan. It was crushed. A Superman fan should realize as much.

WW cut hos throat with one tiara toss. His throat was utterly slashed. Both scans show him being physically assaulted. You post someone of uber skill getting Thor while his attention was elsewhere so I posted one scan of Superman's glass jaw when his attention was directed elsewhere.

Again, true Thor fan, what were you trying to show with those scans? That Superman can be punched, hurt, cut?

We already know that.

Originally posted by Spire
Again, true Thor fan, what were you trying to show with those scans? That Superman can be punched, hurt, cut?

We already know that. Oh, this is the part where you continually restate yourself. LOL.

Not just hurt his jaw was crushed by an equal in terms of power. Thor's by far his superior in terms of power.

A lucky nerve strike I'll take any day of the week rather than having your jaw destroyed by an equal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Obviously. Thor doesn't just try to murder all his opponents on the spot. The moment he realized it was a machine he showed he had the power to destroy it with one hammer toss. This shows how much Thor holds back in most of his fights and what he is capable of.
That he does.

Hyperion's an example of this as well.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh, this is the part where you continually restate yourself. LOL.

Not just hurt his jaw was crushed by an equal in terms of power. Thor's by far his superior in terms of power.

A lucky nerve strike I'll take any day of the week rather than having your jaw destroyed by an equal.

I restate myself out of generosity so that you might have another chance to understand.

What were you trying to show, true Thor fan? That Superman can be hurt?

We know he can be hurt.

Originally posted by Spire
I restate myself out of generosity so that you might have another chance to understand.

What were you trying to show, true Thor fan? That Superman can be hurt?

We know he can be hurt. Keep it up polly. When you are cornered and beaten you continually restate yourself all day.

That a Superman equal can break his jaw when his attention is elsewhere. Your scan was a lame attempt at riling up Thor fans. You can't even beat me at the game you yourself started.

I guess your scan was proof that Thor can be nerve struck when his attention is elsewhere. If Supes turns his face in this one Thor's hammer breaks his jaw even worse than Zod has.

Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I have to go, but I'll say this first...

When they went blow for blow as I recall, Thor knocked Superman on his ass after they traded punches, for like a page, and was down for the rest of the fight. And he was rocked hard, as I recall his speech bubble had those shaky like lines.

Your memory seems to omit the fact that Superman was striked away by Mjonlir, off panel, through the forrest. Thor approaches him and Superman uses Heat Vision. Thor withstands it and attacks Superman. The latter catches the hammer, one-handed, with Thor making it clear that Superman's strength is astonishing and the next panel shows Superman one-punching Thor unsconscious while sitting on a piece of wood.

"Shaky like lines" is, I admit, hilarious in its own right as an argument. I could easily point out that it expresses Superman's anger, the dialogue and depiction of the panel easily backing up my point, but it just deviates from the true point of this discussion, which is that Superman was clearly depicted as Thor's physical superior, shown by actions and statements.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
After Thor waded through a doss of heat vision for like a page Superman does knock him out, after barely stopping that hammer strike. And it was made pretty clear, that Busiek wanted to show that heat vision as a factor, as it clearly affected Thor severely.

Memory is down. Now, apparently, logic isn't your forte either. Would you say that Thor would be astonished by Superman catching his hammer if HV had substantially affected the attack's potency and it was anything but his best strike ? Furthermore, you are trying to make it as if your speculations and biased interpretations of the scene would somehow be in agreement with Busiek's intentions. Hm. Would you like me to post Busiek's intentions when he wrote this fight, those being the Superman is clearly the physicall superior ? Heat Vision wasn't a factor and you have absolutley nothing to base yourself on and, in fact, Thor's statement logically contradicts that unsupported stance.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman also had an orgasm holding Mjolnir and feeling it's power. As well, according to him Thor was the toughest opponent he had ever fought. It should be noted, that Thor apparently has his measure now or whatever bullshit that was stated. A hint that Thor was holding back as he did not expect to fight someone that strong?

Anyways later.

Superman also had an orgasm when feeling Captain Marvel's power once they merged. That shows nothing, and in case you're not aware of this, we're not discussing Mjolnir's power in comparison to Superman's. We're discussing Superman's strength being superior to Thor's, which was clearly depicted on-panel. As for the statement Superman made after catching Thor's all-out hammer strike with one-hand and one-punching him unconscious, Kurt Busiek has already made it clear what that was meant to express. It's admirable that he has the patience to point out hyperboles when idiots can't figure out it is. He made an analogy that it's similar to a person saying "That's the best meal I've ever had" after enjoying one. In the same way, it's meant to express that it was a difficult fight.

As for Thor holding back because he made an ego-fueled statement later in the series, that statement does not only not even hint at Thor holding back (biased interpretation being passed on as proof contrary to what logic dictates. Hm. I'm having a deja-vu) but it has nothing to do with what we're discussing in the first place, which is Superman's strength. Thor thinking that he might surprise Superman in the next bout with, and I know this might come as a shock, changing tactics does in no way contribue to our strength-related discussion. I know your logic and common sense breaks down when discussing Thor but at least you should be able to keep up with what we're discussing.

Furthermore, the fact that everything was on the line in his fight with Superman lends the ideea of Thor holding back in the fight null. Not only that, but Thor being shocked at Superman doing what he did, when he was actually holding back, points out how stupid this stance is. "WOWZERZ! The mighties in nine worlds couldn't have done this to my holding back strike!". -cue to Superman one-punching him unconscious-.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Keep it up polly. When you are cornered and beaten you continually restate yourself all day.

That a Superman equal can break his jaw when his attention is elsewhere. Your scan was a lame attempt at riling up Thor fans. You can't even beat me at the game you yourself started.

I guess your scan was proof that Thor can be nerve struck when his attention is elsewhere. If Supes turns his face in this one Thor's hammer breaks his jaw even worse than Zod has.

Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

What were you trying to prove by posting scans of Superman being hurt?

I know! Before you posted the scans no one thought he could be hurt. Ever. I guess you proved everyone wrong.

Yes, the scan was proof that Thor can be nerve struck.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Obviously. Thor doesn't just try to murder all his opponents on the spot. The moment he realized it was a machine he showed he had the power to destroy it with one hammer toss. This shows how much Thor holds back in most of his fights and what he is capable of. Proven? When? When Supes beat him down like a chump.

Originally posted by Spire
What were you trying to prove by posting scans of Superman being hurt?

I know! Before you posted the scans no one thought he could be hurt. Ever. I guess you proved everyone wrong.

Yes, the scan was proof that Thor can be nerve struck. Context. He didn't just have a headache he needed reconstructive surgery on his jaw. The guy wasn't stronger than him either. It was for all intents and purposes his equal.

Thor's attention elsewhere just like Superman's.

My scan of Thor showed how powerful he is. The moment he realized it was a machine he destroyed it.

Originally posted by Nihilist
When Supes beat him down like a chump. Supes was barely standing after their melee. He also admitted that with the quality of Thor that the fight basically could have gone either way. Thor admits later he has had his measure and the fight would go differently. He won't be shocked if he catches another hammer strike and drop his guard.


The hv blasts that Thor ran through wasn't there to massage his muscles either.

Look. More things I learn from Thor supporters!

Apparently Thor has a tiara that can cut Superman's throat. Or can speedblitz-sucker-punch Superman and break his jaw in a fight (yes, Thor obviously gets to sucker-punch Superman in order to make it fair and even gain momentum if so he desires!). Or throw the hammer through his chest because Air-Walker=Superman and Superman hasn't already gotten one to the face in JLA Avengers!

Originally posted by quanchi112
Supes was barely standing after their melee. He also admitted that with the quality of Thor that the fight basically could have gone either way. Thor admits later he has had his measure and the fight would go differently. He won't be shocked if he catches another hammer strike and drop his guard.


The hv blasts that Thor ran through wasn't there to massage his muscles either. All in all Supes still won and had more in the tank and was stronger, and the shocked excuse Thor fans reel out is laughable.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Context. He didn't just have a headache he needed reconstructive surgery on his jaw. The guy wasn't stronger than him either. It was for all intents and purposes his equal.

Thor's attention elsewhere just like Superman's.

My scan of Thor showed how powerful he is. The moment he realized it was a machine he destroyed it.

Ah, so you admit that you're a shitty true Thor fan and that all you scans did was show Superman being hurt.

Supes being aware, unaware, happy, sad, sleepy, etc. doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by Nihilist
All in all Supes still won and had more in the tank and was stronger, and the shocked excuse Thor fans reel out is laughable. I agree Supes is slightly stronger. The hv also took something out of Thor. I hear how great it is all the time but now I guess it did nothing but gently breeze over Thor's skin in this fight.

Thor's shock is the reason he lost the fight imo. Originally posted by Spire
Ah, so you admit that you're a shitty true Thor fan and that all you scans did was show Superman being hurt.

Supes being aware, unaware, happy, sad, sleepy, etc. doesn't really matter. You get so riled up over this stuff. Your scans set this all in motion. You keep ignoring the severity of the damage done in both scans. Thor was simply ko'd while Supes clutched his throat in one scan and held his broken jaw in another.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree Supes is slightly stronger. The hv also took something out of Thor. I hear how great it is all the time but now I guess it did nothing but gently breeze over Thor's skin in this fight.

Thor's shock is the reason he lost the fight imo.

Supes was shocked at how easy he stopped the hammer, and now he has Thors measure he just turns his dials up to 11 from the start and beats him down again.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Supes was shocked at how easy he stopped the hammer, and now he has Thors measure he just turns his dials up to 11 from the start and beats him down again. Iyo. Look at Rulk the second time around. Thor had the same power and completely dominated Rulk while Supes barely bested him in the first place. Couple that with Thor's words and Superman's words immediately after the fight.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You get so riled up over this stuff. Your scans set this all in motion. You keep ignoring the severity of the damage done in both scans. Thor was simply ko'd while Supes clutched his throat in one scan and held his broken jaw in another.

In other words, you're a shitty true Thor fan and you posted scans showing Superman getting hurt. Something we already knew.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Iyo. Look at Rulk the second time around. Thor had the same power and completely dominated Rulk while Supes barely bested him in the first place. Couple that with Thor's words and Superman's words immediately after the fight. Thor had the Odin force when he fought Rulk, and at having to use that shitfest of a comic as a example of Thor being better second time round.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Quan's point was that Thor only uses a fraction of his strength. This seems to be the case with any hero though.

If that was his intention, he would have said so. The way he presented it seemed like just another tactic that he thinks would work on Superman, thus why he grouped it with Wonder Woman's tiara throw.

The direct confrontation is the most decisive evidence, even if not admissable on the forum. If we start going all argument-for-argument, you know that wouldn't go nowhere considering some of the "logic fueled" arguments used for Thor that I just don't have the patience for ("Thor overcoming infinite gravity!" "Thor withstanding a score of planets!" Silver Age hyperboles rule!).

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
He said it right there. Responding to me saying that Thor's attack would not do the same to Superman. He did say so, it was clearly his intention. He said it right there.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't read all of his posts, or his lack of ability to properly express his arguments in the initial post.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Only, it's not evidence. It's also funny how you have soooo much tolerance for DC bullshit, yet any hyperbole by Marvel is just out there. Like Superman lifting the book of infinite pages along with 5-Captain Marvel. Clearly he cannot lift "half" of infinite weight, but we still use it as a strength feat. It is somewhat supported by Superman having as much strength as he needs to. Which is also the ase with Thor. What makes it more feasible for Thor is that he is -actually- one of a kind, unlike Superman. Superman's powers are racial where as Thor is a unique combination unlike any other in the universe....almost.

You don't have the patience for certain people. The feats they use are no more ludicrous than your own.

Not evidence under the forum regulations, true. We know both that within the story context Superman/Captain Marvel lifting infinite weight is valid and it's in no way comparable to random villain shouting 'infinite gravity!!!' or Thor randomly shouting 'taking scores of planets!'. But even so, you won't see me going all "Superman has infinite strength!" in threads, at least when I'm serious, and without provocation.

I would like to interject here. Thor in now way Struck Superman with the mightiest of the Hammer Blows. Had He struck Superman with a flying hammer toss or one where he swirls the hammer around giving it infinite mass in his light speed thing, Superman would have been dead, or KO'd. The trick is, Can Thor His Superman with such an attack. Superman has also been injured by Magical Lightning before at the hands of Captain Marvel, which of Course Thor can do. Also, Lightning has Depowered the marvel's before. Wonder Woman knows this. During the fight she can easily call out that tactic and have Thor Rain Lightning every where. Nieither Superman nor CM are putting Wonder Woman down in any amount of real time. Hell, she's the one with the one hit powers. On the other hand, Team two has Speed advantage. Superman is faster in movement speed than Thor or Wonder Woman. CM is faster than Thor but slower than Wonder Woman. So it would be smart to have Wonder Woman, who's reflext speed is Faster than Superman's combat speed, hold him off while Thor depowers CM. Or he BFR's him easily enough. HE did it to Juggernuat and I can see it working on CM. ALL in all, I'd say this would be an epic fight that can go many ways. Team one are the true killers tho. Neither Thor nor Diana have a problem killing if need be.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I would like to interject here. Thor in now way Struck Superman with the mightiest of the Hammer Blows. Had He struck Superman with a flying hammer toss or one where he swirls the hammer around giving it infinite mass in his light speed thing, Superman would have been dead, or KO'd. The trick is, Can Thor His Superman with such an attack. Superman has also been injured by Magical Lightning before at the hands of Captain Marvel, which of Course Thor can do. Also, Lightning has Depowered the marvel's before. Wonder Woman knows this. During the fight she can easily call out that tactic and have Thor Rain Lightning every where. Nieither Superman nor CM are putting Wonder Woman down in any amount of real time. Hell, she's the one with the one hit powers. On the other hand, Team two has Speed advantage. Superman is faster in movement speed than Thor or Wonder Woman. CM is faster than Thor but slower than Wonder Woman. So it would be smart to have Wonder Woman, who's reflext speed is Faster than Superman's combat speed, hold him off while Thor depowers CM. Or he BFR's him easily enough. HE did it to Juggernuat and I can see it working on CM. ALL in all, I'd say this would be an epic fight that can go many ways. Team one are the true killers tho. Neither Thor nor Diana have a problem killing if need be.
Imo, it's your opinion if Thor will KIll or even KO Superman with that Hammer Toss
When has CM hurt Superman badly with his Magic Attack. If you are thinking of the lighting when he shouts Shazam, it's completely different.
I don't know where you got the Bs that WW 's reflex speed is faster then his combat speed.
All WW can do against CM or Superman is try and hold them out. Superman has proven over and over that he is the more superior in almost every category. Heck, she admitted it at well.
When has lighting depowered Marvel before?

You talk as if WW and Thor are the only ones with strategy. Superman knows that Marvel is resistant towards magic so he'll send him towards Thor. Superman knows that WW doesn't really have any actual defense against his freeze breath. He'll use it again and again if need be.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Imo, it's your opinion if Thor will KIll or even KO Superman with that Hammer Toss
When has CM hurt Superman badly with his Magic Attack. If you are thinking of the lighting when he shouts Shazam, it's completely different.
I don't know where you got the Bs that WW 's reflex speed is faster then his combat speed.
All WW can do against CM or Superman is try and hold them out. Superman has proven over and over that he is the more superior in almost every category. Heck, she admitted it at well.
When has lighting depowered Marvel before?

You talk as if WW and Thor are the only ones with strategy. Superman knows that Marvel is resistant towards magic so he'll send him towards Thor. Superman knows that WW doesn't really have any actual defense against his freeze breath. He'll use it again and again if need be. His freeze Breath? Are you kidding me? She's resisted Killer Frost who Owns Superman's freeze breath. And she can EASILY Block any and all of Superman's projectile powers. The only reason he even got the freeze breath out on her is because she was trying to reason with him. Also, they fought in space which is colder than anything that can be produced by Superman while in Earth's atmosphere and she was FINE. Also, Wonder Woman is faster than Superman in combat. He just can't do what she does. It's her thing to not only move fast but with pin point accuracy block and strike.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Because the guy in a clown suit said that it was the book of limbo? Or because of Superman claiming it? I'm just trying to understand how Ultraman actually -read- the book of infinite pages. Superman or Thor lifting hundred planets is an indication of them being insanely strong. The pair lifting something that has -infinite- weight is impossible. Doing things like resisting infinite gravity or reading infinite pages in 15 minutes are clearly hyperbole.

Zomg hyperboles like a gazillion tons or so work. They're strong, they have more strength than anyone in the whooooola wiiiiide woooorld. Infinite things are simply impossible, imo

Because the whole point of that book was that it's supposed to contain all the other books, all the other stories and it's made quite clear that the Monitor ship was able to read it because it had infinite memory capacity. It's not ambiguous in the slightest what the book represents and what Captain Marvel/Superman did.

Yes, Superman or Thor lifting hundreds of planets would be an indication of them being insanely strong. The problem is that they didn't and passing on random hyperboles as proof of them being capable of doing it is asinine.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
His freeze Breath? Are you kidding me? She's resisted Killer Frost who Owns Superman's freeze breath. And she can EASILY Block any and all of Superman's projectile powers. The only reason he even got the freeze breath out on her is because she was trying to reason with him. Also, they fought in space which is colder than anything that can be produced by Superman while in Earth's atmosphere and she was FINE. Also, Wonder Woman is faster than Superman in combat. He just can't do what she does. It's her thing to not only move fast but with pin point accuracy block and strike.
You only answered a few questions that I asked, but I am not going ask again.

- Space is about -300- -500 C if you think Superman's breath isn't as colder, you need help man
- She can only block a few of his projected attacks. Those that have an area of effect will hit her. He can make his Heat Vision have a bigger range, this makes her bracer's irrelevent
- You are also changing your statement now, first it was
So it would be smart to have Wonder Woman, who's reflext speed is Faster than Superman's combat speed

NOW

lso, Wonder Woman is faster than Superman in combat.

Two different things. Either way, they are both wrong. That was never stated. The only thing that was ever stated is that her reflex speed> his reflex speed

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You only answered a few questions that I asked, but I am not going ask again.

- Space is about -300- -500 C if you think Superman's breath isn't as colder, you need help man
- She can only block a few of his projected attacks. Those that have an area of effect will hit her. He can make his Heat Vision have a bigger range, this makes her bracer's irrelevent
- You are also changing your statement now, first it was
So it would be smart to have Wonder Woman, who's reflext speed is Faster than Superman's combat speed

NOW

lso, Wonder Woman is faster than Superman in combat.

Two different things. Either way, they are both wrong. That was never stated. The only thing that was ever stated is that her reflex speed> his reflex speed
His breath is Not colder than Space. That is what I"m telling you. If it were, when he blew his breath, every thing would have turned to ice. Air, everything. And it would have caused catastrophic dmg in the area. Also, she can block all of his projectiles. He can't fire faster than this http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/26/1228691_560x867.jpg which is FTL particles in an omnidirection pattern from around the universe.

She can also block his biggest wide area affect attack like so,
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/02/22/1228874_882x1264.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/02/22/1228873_887x1260.jpg

She doesn't even have to fight him, just keep him busy. And she can fight him if she wants. I can post fights with beings Similiar to him where she has done well.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm just trying to understand how Ultraman actually -read- the book of infinite pages. the same way superman/marvel read through it: by utilizing the ultima thule's infinite memory capacity.

Originally posted by Galan007
the same way superman/marvel read through it: by utilizing the ultima thule's infinite memory capacity.
Yes, dur me. I saw that Phil mentioned it earlier.
Lifting Infinite Pages should still be impossible.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You only answered a few questions that I asked, but I am not going ask again.

- Space is about -300- -500 C if you think Superman's breath isn't as colder, you need help man
- She can only block a few of his projected attacks. Those that have an area of effect will hit her. He can make his Heat Vision have a bigger range, this makes her bracer's irrelevent
- You are also changing your statement now, first it was
So it would be smart to have Wonder Woman, who's reflext speed is Faster than Superman's combat speed

NOW

lso, Wonder Woman is faster than Superman in combat.

Two different things. Either way, they are both wrong. That was never stated. The only thing that was ever stated is that her reflex speed> his reflex speed

Diana *can* block area effect energy attacks, via her Aegis defense.

And it has been referenced before that Diana's combat speed is faster than Superman's (not by much, but an edge, just as he is stronger than her, but not by any great margin); the most recent reference I am aware of was in the most recent JL fight with Amazo (around issues 24-28), where when Diana is fighting Amazo by herself, after saving Clark from Amazo's red-solar vision, and they are brawling, she wordboxes, thinking "Hera he's fast -- faster than Clark" -- Amazo dodges her punch from a prone position and hits her back-- "-- fast as me..." (as he had then adapted her speed to fight her with).

I might be misunderstanding your view on her speed; if so, just ignore that part...

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yes, dur me. I saw that Phil mentioned it earlier.
Lifting Infinite Pages should still be impossible.
Didn't lobo lift a box that weighted as much as the universe? Those guys at DC do the impossible all of the time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch your mouth. LOL. You seem to be getting all worked up again.

Supes can have his jaw broken and his throat slashed. I could post scans of him being ko'd out because he was taken out by surprise.


That's why I said he had the same powers for both fights with Rulk. The end result was much different the second time around.

Take Durok for instance. Take Gladiator for instance. These are other examples of Thor owning these guys with his back up against the wall and doing much better.

You just didn't get it. It's common sense that Thor wasn't using anywhere near his full power when he just previously traded blows with Airwalker, but the moment he realized it was a machine he killed him with one hammer shot.

How didn't you get that? Everyone else did. One other thing you didn't get was that WW is in this thread. Your response was that of WW's reflexes are greater than Superman's. It's her strength that isn't up to per along with her durability. ug.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
ug. Please elaborate.

Split in an arena. In a comic this would be an awesome showdown which could go either way depending on environmental factors.

Thor and Wonder woman 7/10.

Wonderwoman hold off Supes and Thor beats Captain marvel and sit back while supes and wonder woman fight.

Supes and Wonderwoman could go either way but IF supes win he would be highly fatigued while thor would be rested and thor would finish the fight.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor and Wonder woman 7/10.

Wonderwoman hold off Supes and Thor beats Captain marvel and sit back while supes and wonder woman fight.

Supes and Wonderwoman could go either way but IF supes win he would be highly fatigued while thor would be rested and thor would finish the fight.
I honestly think that Captain Marvel should beat Thor if it was a one on one encounter. He's like Superman minus most of the weaknesses.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I honestly think that Captain Marvel should beat Thor if it was a one on one encounter. He's like Superman minus most of the weaknesses.

I dont give Thor the edge over superman due to magic weakness (because I dont consider that a true weakness of supes anyway), I give thor the edge against supes because he's just generally more powerful than him and since Supes=Captain marvel (you get my point).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I honestly think that Captain Marvel should beat Thor if it was a one on one encounter. He's like Superman minus most of the weaknesses.
Reason why most people think Superman wins any encounters against Thor is because of his speed. Captain Marvel does not have those feast. Thor would probably trash him.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I honestly think that Captain Marvel should beat Thor if it was a one on one encounter. He's like Superman minus most of the weaknesses. No, he most certainly is not. While Superman and Captain Marvel match up well against one another Supes is still seen as superior imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he most certainly is not. While Superman and Captain Marvel match up well against one another Supes is still seen as superior imo.
Sure but not for any good reason other than the fact he's DC's Golden Boy and must win in the end.
Powerwise they're the same, Cap just has fewer weaknesses.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Sure but not for any good reason other than the fact he's DC's Golden Boy and must win in the end.
Powerwise they're the same, Cap just has fewer weaknesses. I agree. If you ask anyone from dc they will tell you superman despite all that. I just see Superman doing better in most situations than CM. In dc everyone turns to Superman. It's a shame they don't use Captain Marvel more.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Sure but not for any good reason other than the fact he's DC's Golden Boy and must win in the end.
Powerwise they're the same, Cap just has fewer weaknesses.

I agree with this and it has been shown to many times that they are equals.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Reason why most people think Superman wins any encounters against Thor is because of his speed. Captain Marvel does not have those feast. Thor would probably trash him.

Didnt superman admit on numerous of occasions that captain marvel is faster?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree. If you ask anyone from dc they will tell you superman despite all that. I just see Superman doing better in most situations than CM. In dc everyone turns to Superman. It's a shame they don't use Captain Marvel more.
He's not as compelling a character for one. Even though many of his story's elements were stolen/lifted from Captain Marvel (bald scientist nemesis, flight, a female sidekick) Superman has always *seemed* like a better character.

Cap's healing factor is waaaaaay better than Superman's. He also has the stamina of Atlas and durability of Atlas. He is harder to hurt than Superman.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's not as compelling a character for one. Even though many of his story's elements were stolen/lifted from Captain Marvel (bald scientist nemesis, flight, a female sidekick) Superman has always *seemed* like a better character. Both just suck to me. If I had to pick one I'd say Superman. I hate the little kid part.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Both just suck to me. If I had to pick one I'd say Superman. I hate the little kid part. That much is obvious.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
That much is obvious. Opinions vary.

These two reasons alone makes me think that Thor could beat anyone hes going against on team 2.

Here hes surviving attacks from an enraged celestial without any bodily damage.
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/?action=view&current=ThorvsCelestials2.jpg

And here, he is fightiing against galder and he beats him up so bad that he destroys the moon.

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/?action=view&current=ThorvsGardner9.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/?action=view&current=ThorvsGardner8.jpg

Originally posted by quanchi112
Opinions vary.
Hey lets not argue what's stupider here: a little kid who's empowered by a wizard to become an adult with flight, superstrength, and a whole myriad of other powers granted by Greek Gods (and for some reason Solomon?) or a Thor who is clean-shaven and who inexplicably talks in Middle English even though he should speak in some dialect of Old Norse.
Comics is comics.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Hey lets not argue what's stupider here: a little kid who's empowered by a wizard to become an adult with flight, superstrength, and a whole myriad of other powers granted by Greek Gods (and for some reason Solomon?) or a Thor who is clean-shaven and who inexplicably talks in Middle English even though he should speak in some dialect of Old Norse.
Comics is comics. It's all entirely subjective. I just find the idea that it's really some little kid sickening. I love the idea of some badass warrior from a mythic realm who lives for combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch your mouth. LOL. You seem to be getting all worked up again.

Supes can have his jaw broken and his throat slashed. I could post scans of him being ko'd out because he was taken out by surprise.

Why are you repeating my point?

I would imagine that in an attempt(even a shitty one) at being true Thor fan you would have a conflicting position to respond with.

Originally posted by Spire
Superman does this.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/th_Supermanvol2163p01.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/th_Nervestrike.jpg teehee people might not like it, but that is valid.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yes, dur me. I saw that Phil mentioned it earlier.
Lifting Infinite Pages should still be impossible.

It's Grant Morrison and Superman. Nothing is impossible.

As for whether you choose to accept or not the validity of Superman's feat, I simply do not care. The only thing I care is to laugh at you actually comparing this instance with random mid-battle shouted "I'm taking a score of planets" silver age hyperbole.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
teehee people might not like it, but that is valid.

no its not ts mantis and her skill is on a different level compared to supermans her doing the same thing superman did doesnt mean superman can do it aswell because she is just plain better than him.
thor would godblast him before he gets a chance to do anything.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Then you're laughing at yourself.

Hopefully, Thor won't be fighting any giant robots in here. it's a dirty move, but it also goes along with superman's no killing policy and so forth, not saying he does it all the time but it's still a royal flush scan if i've ever seen one. if you look at it from the outside it's pretty damning evidence.

in thor's defense though, it's possible for him to whip up a vortex to defend himself and toss mjolnir in superman's face really hard or something, but CIS dictates how many times out of ten either of them attempt their maneuvers.

*shrugs*

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am showing how Thor can easily break Superman's glass jaw. A hammer toss is a much more likely scenario than a nerve pinch. It's what they do in character not unlikely occurrences in comics like the godblast or t-vo.

Which is showing Superman getting hurt. Something we already know.

It's ok though, I know you were just trying to be a true Thor fan(a shitty one that is).

Originally posted by psycho gundam
in thor's defense though, it's possible for him to whip up a vortex to defend himself and toss mjolnir in superman's face really hard or something, but CIS dictates how many times out of ten either of them attempt their maneuvers.

*shrugs*
How many times Thor would attack?

The scenario is applicable if Superman is free and Thor is attacking someone else.

lol @ "glass jaw"

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol @ "glass jaw"


Most of it is pretty laughable, isn't it

Anyway, I still say 5/10.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am showing how Thor can easily break Superman's glass jaw. A hammer toss is a much more likely scenario than a nerve pinch. It's what they do in character not unlikely occurrences in comics like the godblast or t-vo.
So you accept one and not the other. You wonder why people call you dc biased. Glass jaw? the same guy who took a smack from the Anti-monitor?

I'm not sure any version of Superman has a glass jaw. He's got a Bruce Campbell Jaw if anything.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm not sure any version of Superman has a glass jaw. He's got a Bruce Campbell Jaw if anything.

hey now, let's not get carried away here...

Originally posted by -Pr-
hey now, let's not get carried away here...
Close enough. Superman is one of the reasons most classic heroes had square jaws.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Both just suck to me. If I had to pick one I'd say Superman. I hate the little kid part.



lol wth?

Originally posted by Spire
Which is showing Superman getting hurt. Something we already know.

It's ok though, I know you were just trying to be a true Thor fan(a shitty one that is).
The point has always been that any character in this thread can be either ko'd or damaged badly if their attention is elsewhere.

You provided an example of something Superman rarely uses. I supplied an example of something Thor does quite often making mine the much more likely scenario as they are fighting in character. You might as well bring up t-vo.



Originally posted by Zeuodin
Glass jaw? the same guy who took a smack from the Anti-monitor? Thor's taken shots from Celestials. Sodom Yat has survived blasts designed to kill him. If you are referring to the crisis you are leaving out a whole lot of context as usual.Originally posted by celeyhyga17
lol wth? If you follow along the thread there shouldn't be a mystery.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The point has always been that any character in this thread can be either ko'd or damaged badly if their attention is elsewhere.

You provided an example of something Superman rarely uses. I supplied an example of something Thor does quite often making mine the much more likely scenario as they are fighting in character. You might as well bring up t-vo.

Um, ok.

It's really not an issue because if his attention was elsewhere it could happen. So it brings us back to all you showed was Superman can be hurt.

However, Thor still gets dropped from a nerve strike. Something I'm guessing most people have never seen.

In my mind all of these characters are in the same weight class. One might be able to lift a few more tons than the other or one might be slightly more durable, but this fight would be a knockdown dragout fight with no quick victory for either side. Think Superman vs Doomsday x2.

That being said, I have to go with team one simple because of the extra magical weapons they bring into the fight. Mjolnir + WW's lasso and tiara simply give team one more options and versatility, imo.

Team one has More skill and Far more weapons and One shot ability and amp ability than Team two.

Team Two has better combined speed and durability than team one.

Strength is all around the same with superman being a lil stronger than everyone else. But Thor hits harder than everyone else.

Reflexes are WW's hands down.

Captain marvel has the best durability but he's the easiest to be taken out by the lasso. What's the name that you call to gain your powers? and he's dead seconds later as billy batson.

Team 2 for the slight majority.


Wonder Woman will be able to hold off any of the two for quite some time, but she has to use her lasso into the fight to avoid the inevitable loss.

Thor = Superman.. this fight can go either way, but if WW is taken out, it would turn into a handicap match, and Thor won't win against two of his peers (unless BFR comes into play)