Odin/RK Thor vs Monarch/Darkseid

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carver9
Rune King Thor and Odin

Vs

Darkseid and Monarch.

Who would come out on top?

Zeuodin
Originally posted by carver9
Rune King Thor and Odin

Vs

Darkseid and Monarch.

Who would come out on top? DS is a multiversal bender who has to be killed with Radion. Something Odin nore RKT will have.

shokosugi
Monarch solos team 1

galactusischere
Monarch and DS 7/10

xJLxKing
Which DarkSeid is it?

Lord Feron
RKT solos, but not with rediculous ease.

xJLxKing
There are other version of DS that would WTF PWN everyone here

bbrem123
it seems like they are using that version

quanchi112
Originally posted by xJLxKing
There are other version of DS that would WTF PWN everyone here Iyo.

carver9
This is regular darkseid that fights/fought Superman.

iceman24567
Team two

xJLxKing
Originally posted by quanchi112
Iyo.
You don't read DC, so you wouldn't know

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Zeuodin
DS is a multiversal bender who has to be killed with Radion. Something Odin nore RKT will have.

Give me a fing break... Leaving on context of how he bended the multiverse is just the start of the problem. He didn't way his hand and bend a damn thing. He had to be KILLED in order for any sequence to start. He had to have the ALE (powerup) to do anything. Furthermore, it was made quite clear that part of the reason he was able to do this was because he wasn't welcome in this universe and his the viod that was created by his death. These things were made very clear in FC. yet you wanna act like with his own power he just waved his hand, fired a blast or whatever and the multiverse was collasping. Total bs

comicfan11
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Give me a fing break... Leaving on context of how he bended the multiverse is just the start of the problem. He didn't way his hand and bend a damn thing. He had to be KILLED in order for any sequence to start. He had to have the ALE (powerup) to do anything. Furthermore, it was made quite clear that part of the reason he was able to do this was because he wasn't welcome in this universe and his the viod that was created by his death. These things were made very clear in FC. yet you wanna act like with his own power he just waved his hand, fired a blast or whatever and the multiverse was collasping. Total bs

The multiverse started collapsing when DS finally materialized in New Earth. Not before.

This didn't happen beacuse of the ALE.

The ALE was unleashed before anything started happening to the multiverse, by Mokarri and Symian.

The GL's couldn't reach Earth AFTER DS was reborn.
The cracks in the multiverse apeared AFTER DS was reborn and moreso than the ALE was unleashed.

Plus it was clearly stated instory and in the Secret Files by G.Morrison that it's just big level mind control.

xJLxKing
ALE didn't do anything to DS to give him the power to destroy the Mu

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by xJLxKing
ALE didn't do anything to DS to give him the power to destroy the Mu

False. Do you remember when the ALE was broadcast and what was said JL.... It said space and time was cracked after it was broadcast. Lets not forget the war also was said to crack time and space. Now of these were under his own power

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by comicfan11
The multiverse started collapsing when DS finally materialized in New Earth. Not before.

This didn't happen beacuse of the ALE.

The ALE was unleashed before anything started happening to the multiverse, by Mokarri and Symian.

The GL's couldn't reach Earth AFTER DS was reborn.
The cracks in the multiverse apeared AFTER DS was reborn and moreso than the ALE was unleashed.

Plus it was clearly stated instory and in the Secret Files by G.Morrison that it's just big level mind control.

Exactly because he WASN'T in New Earth and thus the collasping started. NOT because he waved his had or blasted anything and the multiverse was collasping. That is the point.

comicfan11
Originally posted by xJLxKing
ALE didn't do anything to DS to give him the power to destroy the Mu

That's what I'm saying.

The major problem with Final Crisis and more specifically DS is that some people don't actually understand or want to accept (mostly Marvel fans) that G.Morrison activelly retconned the whole New Gods myth since their conception.

It's actually stated in the comics that this is the FIRST TIME that we see the real New Gods.

Another proof about that is the fact that Mandraak wouldn't be freed in the DCU Multiverse if DS hadn't been reborn first, thus damaging the Bleed.

Those said funs that refuse to accept this retcon (I also agree that it's really huge) still think DS as someone like Thanos, Mongul, Apocalypse, or similar characters (mostly Starlin ripoffs).

And that's the real problem when discussing DS since Final Crisis came out.

comicfan11
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
False. Do you remember when the ALE was broadcast and what was said JL.... It said space and time was cracked after it was broadcast. Lets not forget the war also was said to crack time and space. Now of these were under his own power

Not false at all

In issue 4 when DS starts materializing in Dan Turpin, Alan Scott's ring is shut down and it starts raining blood.

In issue 5 when he is fully reborn John Stewart says that something terrible is happening and the rest of the GL's fall in the singularity.

In issue 5 again Luthor and the Society look up in th sky as they see the sky burn and break. At that exact point when DS begins his speech Libra says "He is here. The Fifth world of DS has Begun"

That all happened WHEN DS was reborn, LONG AFTER the release of the ALE

kevdude
Originally posted by comicfan11
Not false at all

In issue 4 when DS starts materializing in Dan Turpin, Alan Scott's ring is shut down and it starts raining blood.

In issue 5 when he is fully reborn John Stewart says that something terrible is happening and the rest of the GL's fall in the singularity.

In issue 5 again Luthor and the Society look up in th sky as they see the sky burn and break. At that exact point when DS begins his speech Libra says "He is here. The Fifth world of DS has Begun"

That all happened WHEN DS was reborn, LONG AFTER the release of the ALE

Agreed, still going to take awhile for some people.

comicfan11
Originally posted by kevdude
Agreed, still going to take awhile for some people.

Sad thing is that some people (again mostly Marvel fans) will never accept it and make excuses for themselves in order to keep believing that the DS from Apokolips now is the same with DS from Final Crisis (the current, and real version of DS)

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by comicfan11
Not false at all

In issue 4 when DS starts materializing in Dan Turpin, Alan Scott's ring is shut down and it starts raining blood.

In issue 5 when he is fully reborn John Stewart says that something terrible is happening and the rest of the GL's fall in the singularity.

In issue 5 again Luthor and the Society look up in th sky as they see the sky burn and break. At that exact point when DS begins his speech Libra says "He is here. The Fifth world of DS has Begun"

That all happened WHEN DS was reborn, LONG AFTER the release of the ALE

Some question I have then.

1. When the ALE was broadcast.. did it not say time and space cracked? It did. So, we know the ALE has the power to crack time and space as specifically stated on panel. That wasn't DS waving his hand that was the ALE.

2. The war in heaven was also said to crack space was it not? Again something that DS didn't cause on his own

3. Wasn't it also stated that a lot of the destruction and collasping that occurred was because DS was manifesting himself in a place he didn't belong? Again not him waving his hand and have the power to collaspe the multiverse

4. Wasn't it also stated.. being that he died it created a void because in essence he is essential to the multiverse. Thus this also added to the multiverse collasping. Again not just him and his power.

You see all this stuff is what caused the Multiverse to collapse and it wasn't him and his own power. His power did play a role along with his incredible will. However, lets remember in order for any of this to happen he had to die.. thus the void.. manifestation where he didn't belong.. ale cracking time and space.. the war cracking space.. ALL of these thing had NOTHING to do with him directly causing the multiverse to collapse. Your acting like he waved his hand and started collasping the multiverse LOL. It's a complete joke. A lot of what happened wasn't because of him or his doing. PERIOD.

comicfan11
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Some question I have then.

1. When the ALE was broadcast.. did it not say time and space cracked? It did. So, we know the ALE has the power to crack time and space as specifically stated on panel. That wasn't DS waving his hand that was the ALE.

2. The war in heaven was also said to crack space was it not? Again something that DS didn't cause on his own

3. Wasn't it also stated that a lot of the destruction and collasping that occurred was because DS was manifesting himself in a place he didn't belong? Again not him waving his hand and have the power to collaspe the multiverse

4. Wasn't it also stated.. being that he died it created a void because in essence he is essential to the multiverse. Thus this also added to the multiverse collasping. Again not just him and his power.

You see all this stuff is what caused the Multiverse to collapse and it wasn't him and his own power. His power did play a role along with his incredible will. However, lets remember in order for any of this to happen he had to die.. thus the void.. manifestation where he didn't belong.. ale cracking time and space.. the war cracking space.. ALL of these thing had NOTHING to do with him directly causing the multiverse to collapse. Your acting like he waved his hand and started collasping the multiverse LOL. It's a complete joke. A lot of what happened wasn't because of him or his doing. PERIOD.

I never said he waved his hand.
This is you talking.

1. I already showed you that the actual collapse (the one that made it possible for Mandraak to emerge) happened LONG AFTER the ALE was unleashed with specific issue references

2. The war in heaven is actually glimpsed in Seven Soldiers Mister Miracle #1.
That caused the fall of the New Gods to their human selfs.
What caused the collapse of the multiverse is Darkseids death of the Boss Darkseid body and his rebirth in Dan Turpins.
Again I didn't say he waved his hand.

As for 3 & 4 we somewhat agree.
His pressence in the DCU started collapsing the multiverse.
That's who he is.
An extremely powerfull entity that by manifesting in our realm started wrecking all of reality.

His mere pressence DIRECTLY started collapsing everything.
Not the ALE or the war in Heaven or everything.

Maybe he couldn't control it.
But it was all under DS's own power and pressence since this is the FIRST TIME we actually see his true self AS STATED IN THE COMIC

xJLxKing
It's a shame only a small minority understand Final Crisis

kevdude
Originally posted by comicfan11
I never said he waved his hand.
This is you talking.

1. I already showed you that the actual collapse (the one that made it possible for Mandraak to emerge) happened LONG AFTER the ALE was unleashed with specific issue references

2. The war in heaven is actually glimpsed in Seven Soldiers Mister Miracle #1.
That caused the fall of the New Gods to their human selfs.
What caused the collapse of the multiverse is Darkseids death of the Boss Darkseid body and his rebirth in Dan Turpins.
Again I didn't say he waved his hand.

As for 3 & 4 we somewhat agree.
His pressence in the DCU started collapsing the multiverse.
That's who he is.
An extremely powerfull entity that by manifesting in our realm started wrecking all of reality.

His mere pressence DIRECTLY started collapsing everything.
Not the ALE or the war in Heaven or everything.

Maybe he couldn't control it.
But it was all under DS's own power and pressence since this is the FIRST TIME we actually see his true self AS STATED IN THE COMIC

thumb up Agreed. When they say things like "the war cracked space and time" they are using Darkseids Apokolips and Highfathers New Genesis as a metaphor for Darkseid winning and after Orion and his father battled DS planned for nearly anything even shooting Orion dead in the future so he would kill Orion as well. Darkseid did not care how badly Orion wounded him because well nobody else really could really compare to him (barring The Source of course, and a few others).

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