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One of the First Sith vs Dark Lord of the Order of Two.

Circumstances - Exar Kun does NOT have the Medallion and Bane does not have those freaky bugs for armor.

Weapons - Bane = Curved Hilt Lightsaber and Kun has his Double Bladed Lightsaber.

Force Powers - Lightning , Choke , Core Force Powers (Push , Pull , Sense , Jump etc.) or any other powers that the two might have not listed as long as they are in reason.

Back-Up : Bane has his Apprentice and Exar Kun has Ulic-Quel-Droma if not enough knowledge is known of Darth Zannah then do not use the Back-Ups and only use Back-Ups if the two are too close of a tie.

Battle to the Death, No Mercy, Winner gets the Sith Empire for the next forty years.

OK START!

AND DO NOT SAY THAT REVAN SOLOS! PLEASE I BEG YOU!

Wait, I'm a Sith I don't beg. OK THEN I COMMAND YOU!

At this point, we can put Bane above Kun, especially with the new abilities he gained in the new novel.

Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
AND DO NOT SAY THAT REVAN SOLOS! PLEASE I BEG YOU!

Wait, I'm a Sith I don't beg. OK THEN I COMMAND YOU! So...Bandon solo's?

Life stealing field with a ten foot radius for the win...

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
At this point, we can put Bane above Kun, especially with the new abilities he gained in the new novel.

Yeah I just finished the book a few minutes ago and Bane was pretty ridiculous. I thought it was pretty gay that the author had Bane dodge the rain for lightsaber practice. Shows he is really good, but can you sat nuthuggery? I still don't know if he tops Exar, but its feakin close at least.

Goood....Gooooood. I can feel the Dark Side within this meeting. Continue as it may.

I make a newer rule.

Since we are having problems with the NEW NOVEL and that it is quite heavy on the idiot area.

This is Bane at the END of Path of Destruction directly after he left Russan with Zannah but Zannah is the Zannah from Rule of Two.

AND BANDON DOES NOT SOLO FOOL!

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Yeah I just finished the book a few minutes ago and Bane was pretty ridiculous. I thought it was pretty gay that the author had Bane dodge the rain for lightsaber practice. Shows he is really good, but can you sat nuthuggery? I still don't know if he tops Exar, but its feakin close at least.

Great another gary stu...

haven't read the book yet, but if you take away Kun's amulet, Bane would already win, IMO, based on only ROT.

Bane

I wasn't too impressed by Bane this book. He does show some nice new techniques but his greatest display of power can still be seen in PoD (lightning channeling ritual) and his greatest display of control in RoT (subatomic alterations).

That being said Bane's PoD self would take this, and I'd probably have to agree with Lightsnake on the amulet issue in that they're nowhere near the determining factor in these fights that people make them out to be. Really, Exar Kun has shown powers of a far greater scale using his regular Force techniques then he has with the amulets; giving them to him or taking them away will in all likelihood have a minimal effect on this fight.

Bane shits on kun.

For the love of- those 'subatomic alterations' are basic for any Sith making a Holocron. That's nowhere near the great display

You know, name dropping you there was intended to be a show of respect and allegiance. I almost wish I could take it back now. But only almost.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
those 'subatomic alterations' are basic for any Sith making a Holocron.

Until you actually manage to offer any real evidence for that claim, then I have no wish to discuss this with you any further.

if you joined last month... how do you know about lightsnake? hes made like ten posts in the last five months... mmm

Stay out of this you.

Lightsnake, it should take you no more than a few minutes to download this, and not much longer to find any quote you might need to validate your claim.

EDIT

If it is indeed from the Bane books that you're getting your information from.

Originally posted by Weltall
I wasn't too impressed by Bane this book. He does show some nice new techniques but his greatest display of power can still be seen in PoD (lightning channeling ritual) and his greatest display of control in RoT (subatomic alterations).

The lightning channeling feat is also arguably one of his greatest displays of control as well as power. Being able to focus a planetary level of energy on a scale as small as his body is one of the greatest displays of control we've ever seen in the mythos, and arguably as great as the subatomic manipulation though it's hard to compare the two.

Not really Nebaris. His pure dark side energy shield that eats away at people is very impressive. And LS, I don't know what you're talking about exactly. When have we seen anyone else absorb information from the holocron on that kind of level?

Originally posted by Weltall
The lightning channeling feat is also arguably one of his greatest displays of control as well as power. Being able to focus a planetary level of energy on a scale as small as his body is one of the greatest displays of control we've ever seen in the mythos, and arguably as great as the subatomic manipulation though it's hard to compare the two.
It was a ****in ritual... I still don't see how this is so impressive. Still BANE MOVED DA MOON!!! And rode a pteradactyl through space...

Since the quote was that Bane had made all of the subatomic alterations that were necessary for the creation of the holocron, it reads, to a sane person, like those alterations were NECESSARY FOR THE CREATION OF THE HOLOCRON. now, did other sith besides Bane make a holocron? Yes. they did. so they too, made the subatomic alterations that were NECESSARY FOR THE CREATION OF THE HOLOCRON.

^agreed. Regardless, how would it help in a fight anyway? He focuses on moving a molecule while Exar slices his head off.

Even if Kun manages to slice Bane's head off it dosn't matter... Bane will just use his Deus Ex machina powers and possess Exar Kun...

im pretty sure youd need a brain to do that... otherwise you couldnt think up the idea to posses someone?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
im pretty sure youd need a brain to do that... otherwise you couldnt think up the idea to posses someone?
You dare underestimate the powers of DARTH BANE!!!

EDIT: And as wee see with Sidious the essence transfer works even when killed.

It will be interesting to see how the Sith Emperor prolonges his life. With the way that game is going, they'll make some more random crap.

Dr McBeefington sucks dick.

why would you even say there here? crylaugh

Originally posted by ares834
It was a ****in ritual... I still don't see how this is so impressive.

Given that it wasn't a product of the ritual but rather a prerequisite, that it took place within the confines of a ritual is entirely irrelevant. Bane had to fully rely on his own personal prowess in the Force to absorb all of the lightning being generated from the other Sith Lords for the ritual to work. He also had to store the energy, whilst protecting himself internally, all under his own personal level of ability, as well as redirect the lightning with the vision and range that he did. The only component that was reliant on the nature of the ritual (organised procedure, and the other Sith Lords) was the magnitude of power that was stored, and the destruction it caused on the Ruusan landscape. Everything else was done under Bane's level of ability.



Make fun of it all you want, just don't be mad when Bane turns you into a moon, and then proceeds to ride you through space. Just like he did the poor pterodactyl.

Originally posted by truejedi
Since the quote was that Bane had made all of the subatomic alterations that were necessary for the creation of the holocron, it reads, to a sane person, like those alterations were NECESSARY FOR THE CREATION OF THE HOLOCRON. now, did other sith besides Bane make a holocron? Yes. they did. so they too, made the subatomic alterations that were NECESSARY FOR THE CREATION OF THE HOLOCRON.

The only return on "subatomic" or "sub-atomic" or any such such you get through searching the document I linked to earlier in this thread:

He had made his first attempt five years before. Using Freedon Nadd's Holocron as a blueprint, he had re-created the intricate matrix of lattices and vertices that were the key to storing nearly infinite amounts of knowledge in a data system small enough to fit in the palm of a hand. It had taken months to gather and fashion the rare crystal into the filaments and fibers of the interlaced network, followed by weeks of delicate and painstaking adjustments. The matrix had to fall within highly exacting specifications, and Bane had spent hundreds of hours making thousands of precise, subatomic alterations through the power of the Force to ensure that each crystalline strand was properly in place.

Where exactly does it say that the subatomic alterations were absolutely necessary? All that's stated is that the "highly exacting specifications", which aren't defined, were necessary. The subatomic alterations were made as an assurance, an act that often goes beyond what is absolutely necessary so as to guarantee success. So again, where are they stated to be necessary? If it's in another source then be sure to mention which one.

What's most unforgivable about this is that, aside from Lightsnake, you're probably the person I've had this discussion with the most, and you speak about what's always been in question (whether the subatomic alterations were fundamentally necessary; a claim you've never managed to prove up on) as if it's commonly accepted knowledge! With ME of all people! Completely unforgivable. I will not forgive you for this truejedi. It is unforgivable.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
^agreed. Regardless, how would it help in a fight anyway? He focuses on moving a molecule while Exar slices his head off.

It's a demonstration of control, which effectively translates into how efficiently a force user would be at applying his full level of power on a relatively small scale, such as in a direct force battle between two humanoid opponents. Control dictates the proportion of your total level of power you will be able to apply on a small scale. Bane's demonstrated level of control is completely unprecedented, and he is the only character to have demonstrated a level of control even close; by all available evidence, he will be more likely able to apply a higher proportion of his total power in a small scale battle than any other character featured in the mythos.

Take Darth Nihilus as an example, he's demonstrated the power to drain entire planets, but without the required level of control to be able to efficiently focus that level of power into harming his opponent without harming himself in the process, that level of power is largely inconsequential.

With Bane, you have someone who's displayed a level of power in the planetary regions, with a demonstrated level of control that would enable him to effectively apply a large amount of that power on a small scale in a one on one battle. There's no other character, with the exceptions of Luke Skywalker and Kyp Durron, who have displayed such high levels of controlled power.

no noobaris.

I didn't read any of that, but I saw a Neb Triple and just knew that it was horseshit.

You know what's finny, I seem to recal that I was the one who gave him thar quote.

You may all thank me now.

After all these years neb is still trying to convince everyone that bane pwns all.

Seems he truly has no goals in life but to prove bane is ub3r.

Neb's Right

Originally posted by Weltall
The only return on "subatomic" or "sub-atomic" or any such such you get through searching the document I linked to earlier in this thread:

The matrix had to fall within highly exacting specifications, and Bane had spent hundreds of hours making thousands of precise, subatomic alterations through the power of the Force to ensure that each crystalline strand was properly in place.

Right there is your proof. It had to fall into those specifications, so Bane made the alterations to ensure that it did. Its THE SAME SENTENCE. They are simple cause and effect clauses that mean one is a result of the requirement of the other.


Since it is the SAME sentence where the need is stated, and his action to meet the need is presented, i disagree with this in its entirety . This is more than splitting hairs. This is literally breaking things down to the nitty-gritty to deny something that is pretty obvious.

Thanks for the quote though, I was paraphrasing above. Been several years since i read the book, but your quote actually, I believe, helps me more than it did you.



yes, and we have never agreed. I maintain that i have been right all along, and continue to be so.

U know though, you don't show the same amount of belligerence that you used to. You ARE wrong, and a fanboy, but its hardly a crime, and we certainly have a fair number of members here who are frequently guilty of both.
I assume you have grown up a bit as well (happens to people) and I would actually not a problem with you staying on as an actual member instead of a sock that is repeatedly banned.

Not that my vote counts for much with the mods, but I'll throw it out there. Its not like we have an unlimited number of members, and we certainly never have debate anymore, so what would it hurt? (past grievances aside...)

Originally posted by Weltall
It's a demonstration of control, which effectively translates into how efficiently a force user would be at applying his full level of power on a relatively small scale, such as in a direct force battle between two humanoid opponents. Control dictates the proportion of your total level of power you will be able to apply on a small scale. Bane's demonstrated level of control is completely unprecedented, and he is the only character to have demonstrated a level of control even close; by all available evidence, he will be more likely able to apply a higher proportion of his total power in a small scale battle than any other character featured in the mythos.

That has nothing to do with efficiency. The subatomic scale has absolutely no connection to a battle between to people. This is just a bad argument.

Originally posted by Weltall
Take Darth Nihilus as an example, he's demonstrated the power to drain entire planets, but without the required level of control to be able to efficiently focus that level of power into harming his opponent without harming himself in the process, that level of power is largely inconsequential.

That only happened because he was fighting the Exile. Against anyone else he would have had no problem. He was able to use his powers against EACH INDIVIDUAL Jedi when he decimated the Order. The fact that he did it to hundreds in succession is only more evidence that he could do it to a single person.

Originally posted by Weltall
With Bane, you have someone who's displayed a level of power in the planetary regions, with a demonstrated level of control that would enable him to effectively apply a large amount of that power on a small scale in a one on one battle. There's no other character, with the exceptions of Luke Skywalker and Kyp Durron, who have displayed such high levels of controlled power.

Control on the sub-atomic level is absolutely worthless in a fight. The scale difference between controlling the minuscule amount of power necessary to move atoms and the power necessary to be use able in an actual fight is so great that no comparison should be made.

Furthermore, Zannah, who has not shown herself to be anywhere near as powerful as the Bane you're fantasizing about, what effectively a match for him during their final battle. It's entirely possible that she won their duel after he attempted to transfer his life essence and that she just absorbed some of his traits. If it had been Bane, why would he have lied afterwards?

Without that technique, Zannah without a doubt defeated Bane. Could you argue she is more powerful than Exar?

Originally posted by truejedi
Right there is your proof. It had to fall into those specifications, so Bane made the alterations to ensure that it did. Its THE SAME SENTENCE. They are simple cause and effect clauses that mean one is a result of the requirement of the other.

While I do see where you're coming from and can definitely agree that it might imply as much, that the action met the need does not mean that it can be identified as the need. As I said, all that's stated was that it was an action taken as an assurance, something that not only meets a need but often goes beyond that need. That the subatomic alterations met the need wasn't in question, but that it was absolutely required for the need to be met was. And the fact remains that the text does not present any evidence that would suggest that the action taken to meet the need was in itself absolutely required.

As an example, "Darth Sexy had to die, and Nephys had been planting a number of elaborate traps around Sexy's bedroom to ensure that he would meet his maker."

A need is presented (Darth Sexy has to die), a solution is presented (the elaborate traps Exodus was planting around Sexy's bedroom), but that doesn't mean that the elaborate traps were absolutely necessary and that Exodus couldn't simply have hired Kadesh to follow Darth Sexy to his apartment late at night and throttle the life out of him using nothing but his bare hands.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
That has nothing to do with efficiency. The subatomic scale has absolutely no connection to a battle between to people. This is just a bad argument.

I think it'd be more accurate to label the Strawman a bad argument, and under normal circumstances I would probably accuse you of being dishonest however in this case it's pretty clear that the point just flew way over your head.

I'll take you through it again.

First, let's clear up the terminology.

As far as how I have been using the term: control over the Force measures the degree to which a Force User can direct and focus the Force energies at his disposal. This is a base ability that a Force User would call upon in any situation or with any technique. It represents a Force User's general prowess over the Force energies at a his/her disposal. It is not technique specific. This is all described in the numerous Star Wars Role Playing Game Sourcebooks, and is statistically represented by the correlation between the different displays of control by individual Force users over a variety of techniques.

Now on to Bane's ability to manipulate Force energies on a subatomic level; being able to generate Force energies on a scale smaller than the upper spacial limit of your power demonstrates a certain level of control in that it displays the ability to reduce the spacial effects of the Force energies at your command at will. The smaller the scale in which this can be achieved in relation to the upper spacial limit of your power, the greater the required control over the Force. For Bane to be able to do this on a completely unprecedented lower scale while having also demonstrated a level of higher spacial power on par with that of any other in the mythos demonstrates a completely unprecedented level of control.

This is a base ability that directly determines how efficiently he would be at applying his full level of power within the confines of a small scale battle situation.

By all available evidence, he would be more effective at doing this than any other character in the mythos.



Again, you completely missed the point; I wasn't arguing against the idea that he'd be able to replicate a feat of the same level of Force Energy Density (FED) on a smaller scale, rather, I was questioning the extent to which he could increase that FED on a smaller scale without any notable established level of control over the Force.



It demonstrates a capacity for reducing the spacial effects of Force energies which is a demonstration of control, a base ability that can be applied in any situation or with any technique.



The Bane I've been fantasizing about is exactly as he's been established to be by the source material. He has been proven to possess the level of power and control over the Force that I credit him with. That Zannah hasn't been displayed to be as powerful as outside of the battle between the two, and then using Bane's performance in that battle to attempt to discredit his already established level of ability whilst ignoring what that battle suggests about Zannah's own level of ability whilst also going by an "absence of proof = proof of absence" mentality is what you'd call a "bad argument".



Pointless speculation + misdirective strategies. Ignoring....



I would, and have .

Nebaris, you're full of shit. Prove me wrong(see what I did thurr)>


And it's pretty obvious that Bane got into Zannah's body unless you're contesting that a match of wills somehow favors Zannah. Not to mention, her left hand was twitching afterwards, something that affected Bane.

The only way I see Zannah being Zannah if the ritual somehow failed while Bane was in her body. And Bane had no reason to scare the hell out of Cognus telling her that it was him.

Who is going to want to serve under a master who can transfer themselves into your body?

Maybe?

You're mocking Glentract right?

"And Bane had no reason to scare the hell out of Cognus telling her that it was him.

Who is going to want to serve under a master who can transfer themselves into your body?"

That's a good point.

That post is so full of shit I'm not even going to bother with a drawn out response to it. Coming up with this theory about Force energy density and a bunch of other crap is pretty weak.

Lets get real here. Bane was beaten in his fight with Zannah. If she can take Bane down he obviously isn't as good as some people seem to think. Nothing Bane did is crazy impressive. Even if he did have this amazing ability to control ridiculous levels of Force energy on a really small scale he still was unable to defeat Zannah, who has not shown herself to be especially powerful.

Another instance of this is the Duel on Tython. Bane and Zannah defeated five Jedi but just barely were successful. Bane would have been pwned if he had been on his own. Sidious was able to dominate three Jedi in seconds. Vader defeated seven Jedi on his own while still getting used to his suit. Exar's only equal in the entire Order was Ulic. Jacen took on what, four Jedi at once, including Katarn. Bane is not all he is being cracked up to be. Hell Revan kill two Tarentatek's by himself and those normally took a small of group of Jedi to bring down.

Bane is an awesome character and he is really, really strong, but there are plenty of guys who are better than him.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
That post is so full of shit I'm not even going to bother with a drawn out response to it. Coming up with this theory about Force energy density and a bunch of other crap is pretty weak.

Lets get real here. Bane was beaten in his fight with Zannah. If she can take Bane down he obviously isn't as good as some people seem to think. Nothing Bane did is crazy impressive. Even if he did have this amazing ability to control ridiculous levels of Force energy on a really small scale he still was unable to defeat Zannah, who has not shown herself to be especially powerful.
Ok even I'm going to have to disagree with this nonsense. Bane DEFINITELY showed some very impressive feats and new force techniques. He's both a saber and force beast. Zannah is NOT better than him, but her talents in Sith sorcery are. In fact, I don't think we've ever seen sith sorcery in the entire mythos on the level of what Zannah conjured.


Yea its 5 jedi masters against 2, whats your point? None of what you just posted possesses any kind of significance.


Plenty? Hardly. Maybe a few at best.

Bane is pretty uber... He manages to stand in a downpour and block all incoming drops with his Saber. Lame and fanficky but powerful as hell.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
That post is so full of shit I'm not even going to bother with a drawn out response to it. Coming up with this theory about Force energy density and a bunch of other crap is pretty weak.

I'll put it into clearer terms. Nihilus can take out 100 jedi with one attack. I was not questioning whether or not he could take out one lone Jedi, as all it would require is the same FDE and no more total FE. I was questioning how much of the total FE he used on all 100 Jedi would he be capable of on just one Jedi. In other words, how much higher his FDE could be on a smaller scale. Bane, by all available evidence, has a far greater control over the Force than anybody else in the mythos, specifically how capable he is at applying his power on a smaller scale, so it's likely that his FDE on a smaller scale with respect to his FD (maximum scale) would be astronomically higher than that of anybody else. Understand?



Prove it.



Being able to absorb a planetary level of energy, store it, protect himself internally from it, and then redirect it across an entire planet is one of the mightiest feats we've yet seen in the SW mythos, and miles in both control and power beyond anything Exar Kun has demonstrated. Now, I'm not going to say you're wrong as you're using a relative term but within the confines of this thread, it's an abnormally impressive feat that Exar Kun hasn't come close to matching.



Again, you are:

A) Ignoring what Zannah's performance against Bane states about her general level of ability, and forming an evaluation of her ability off of incomplete evidence.

B) Relying on the idea that absence of proof = proof of absence.

And attempting to use those two lines of reasoning to discredit what has already been established about Bane.



This would be a perfectly valid point if we were able to assume a fixed value for the strength of any given "Jedi" and that we could numerically compare them as such, and ignore the fact that Jedi vary in ability and that the only Jedi in the duel on Tython that Bane was shown to have had difficulty with haven't shown any real limitations that would necessarily discredit Bane with respect to the comparisons you just made. Let's also ignore the fact that Bane was displayed as being easily more than a match for any single one of the Jedi and that it's shown that they quite clearly wouldn't have been a threat without Worror's Battle Meditation (in his opening exchanges with both Raskta and Farfalla it's explicitly stated that they wouldn't have survived without the assistance of Worror's Battle Meditation). Let's also ignore the fact that they were described as some of the most powerful jedi of the era; an era of the most martial Jedi Order there's ever been.



Even if that were the case Exar Kun most certainly wouldn't be one of them.

In fact, I'd argue that Bane is the superior of the two in just about any and every general area. His demonstrated power (planetary), control (subatomic), and knowledge of the Force (all of Sadow's via Freedon Nadd's holocron, all of Revan's knowledge, now all of Andeddu's knowledge) is far greater, he's displayed far greater intelligence (stated to be able to manipulate individuals, organisations and entire governments, he was a visionary that could formulate plans that would come to fruition decades later in a controlled manner, and he set up the complex network of spies and informants that Sidious would eventually use directly to take down the Jedi Order, among many other things), he's displayed a greater learning rate (developing a planetary level of power in a matter of months), more talent with a lightsaber (familiarising himself with the hundreds of thousands if not millions of moves and sequences of the double bladed lightsaber and formulating his own counter measures against each one in, again, a matter of months).

Realistically speaking, it's not even close.

amulets make kun pretty much invincible, to whoever said they wouldn't make that big a difference in the fight.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Ok even I'm going to have to disagree with this nonsense. Bane DEFINITELY showed some very impressive feats and new force techniques. He's both a saber and force beast. Zannah is NOT better than him, but her talents in Sith sorcery are. In fact, I don't think we've ever seen sith sorcery in the entire mythos on the level of what Zannah conjured.

If her talens in Sith sorcery allow her to defeat Bane, which it effectively did, then how can you say she is not better?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Yea its 5 jedi masters against 2, whats your point? None of what you just posted possesses any kind of significance.

Vader was seven Jedi against one Sith. Yet he was able to win relatively unscathed compared to Bane's condition. Basically what I'm saying by this is that it's pretty disappointing Bane and Zannah came so close to being defeat by just five Jedi, two of which were not Masters.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Plenty? Hardly. Maybe a few at best.

I guess we are back to defining terms. I think of plenty as maybe five or more. Would you disagree with that?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
If her talens in Sith sorcery allow her to defeat Bane, which it effectively did, then how can you say she is not better?

Because Bane had no innate ability for sith sorcery, and he still resisted most of it. She is superior in sith sorcery but overall force abilities? Not quite.



Prove the jedi Vader fought were in any way powerful.





Luke, Sidious, possibly Muur/Ragnos/Nadd/Jacen/Revan.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Because Bane had no innate ability for sith sorcery, and he still resisted most of it. She is superior in sith sorcery but overall force abilities? Not quite.

Are you saying she was not able to defeat Bane because it certainly looked like Bane was pretty toast if it hadn't been for the essence transfer technique.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Prove the jedi Vader fought were in any way powerful.

I could say the same for the Jedi that Bane and Zannah fought. We could just take into account that they lived during the "Golden Age."

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Luke, Sidious, possibly Muur/Ragnos/Nadd/Jacen/Revan.

So aren't you argeeing with me? I think I might add Yoda and Durron to that list as well, as well as Nyax and Raynar when part of the Killicks. Murr? Who is that?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Are you saying she was not able to defeat Bane because it certainly looked like Bane was pretty toast if it hadn't been for the essence transfer technique.
Bane seemed to be winning the entire duel. Only when she channeled the power of Ambria into that spell did she gain the upper hand. And the essence transfer was still part of the duel.


Two of the Jedi Bane fought were the best the order had to offer at that point in time. The one's Vader fought were not nealry as proficent.


Nyax? RAYNAR!?!?! Are you crazy. Neither of those two are near Bane in power or mastery of the force.

Karness Muur. He was one of the founders of the sith order. He seems to be quite powerful.

*Muur
And the talisman he created

Muur definitely seems like a powerhouse.

Yeah, which brings up the question just how powerful was Ajunta Pall?

probably even more powerful

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington


Prove the jedi Vader fought were in any way powerful.

Yeah lets go by your own words, "They are jedi masters so they MUST be uber".

Your own words murdered you.

Originally posted by ares834
Bane seemed to be winning the entire duel. Only when she channeled the power of Ambria into that spell did she gain the upper hand. And the essence transfer was still part of the duel.

It is just as much as Zannah's sorcery.

Originally posted by ares834
Two of the Jedi Bane fought were the best the order had to offer at that point in time. The one's Vader fought were not nealry as proficent.

Yet he still defeated seven by himself as opposed to Bane who with Zannah, who is effectively his equal, could not defeat five. Also, keep in mind that the best Jedi were actually killed during the Thought Bomb.

Originally posted by ares834
Nyax? RAYNAR!?!?! Are you crazy. Neither of those two are near Bane in power or mastery of the force.

Nyax - He was basically unbeatable, even for Luke, in a duel. The guy had six freakin lightsabers. It's seriously gay, but the guy was really powerful. Read up on when he was killed by Luke, Mara, and Tahiri.

Raynar - I'm not referring to him on his own. I'm talking about when he was in control of the Killicks. At that point he did some crazy powerful things. Raynar could impose his will on others to the point even Luke felt it's influence. If I remember correctly, he was able to bend turbolaser blasts away from his ship. Raynar even gave Luke a run for his money in their fight.

Originally posted by ares834
Karness Muur. He was one of the founders of the sith order. He seems to be quite powerful.

Okay thanks.

Thul was particularly powerful due to the fact that he was summoning energy from the collective might of the Colony, rather like Mara Jade used to draw energy from Palpatine when she was his Hand.

Nyax, similarly, was able to enhance his skills by drawing upon the power of a Force nexus beneath Coruscant.

Muur seems to be extraordinarily powerful for a Sith Lord; he seemed confident enough to be able to slay Palpatine by using either Vader or Luke for a vessel. But that's not concrete.

Nyax still had his tremendous ability with lightsabers without the Force well. Raynar was drawing off the Nest, but that doesn't make him any less powerful as he did it all the time. Did the Luke Unuthul fight just never happen? I thought I made it clear that I was referring to Raynar during his time with the Killicks.

I'm really surprised over this Murr guy. I'd honestly don't remember ever hearing the name until today.

Nyax's skills with a lightsaber aren't unique; there are numerous relative nobodies who demonstrate or are reputed to have monumental skills as swordsmen (i.e. Cin Drallig, Anoon Bondara, ect).

As far as Raynar is concerned, I thought it should be clarified that the extent of his abilities are not due to his own strength in the Force, but rather like the amulets of the ancient Sith -- he was a beneficiary of something that augmented and focused his power exponentially.

Muur was part of the Legacy comics; he seems pretty badass.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Raynar even gave Luke a run for his money in their fight.





pretty sure that fight was just about the definition of domination. he made raynar look silly while killing the other chick at the same time.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nyax's skills with a lightsaber aren't unique; there are numerous relative nobodies who demonstrate or are reputed to have monumental skills as swordsmen (i.e. Cin Drallig, Anoon Bondara, ect).

As far as Raynar is concerned, I thought it should be clarified that the extent of his abilities are not due to his own strength in the Force, but rather like the amulets of the ancient Sith -- he was a beneficiary of something that augmented and focused his power exponentially.

Muur was part of the Legacy comics; he seems pretty badass.

Regardless of if his skills are unique or not, Luke felt that engaging him in a saber fight was out of the question. That right there speaks volumes.

Fair enough, but I'm taking into account that during the years he was in control of the Killicks he would have access to all of the those powers during a fight. Is an amulet really that different than a lightsaber?

Haven't gotten into those comics and don't really plan to. The Order getting wiped out again is just too many times.

@truejedi: I really wouldn't call that fight the essence of domination or anything like that. He even thought to himself at one point that he was in trouble.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
It is just as much as Zannah's sorcery.
True. I was just saying that Bane did win the fight legiatamly.




Farfalla was clearly a powerful warrior. After all he was a leader of the Jedi during the Battle of Ruusan implying he was both wise and powerful.
As for the weapon master, "Raskta had been part of the campaign on Ruusan. Wielding a blue-bladed lightsaber in each hand, and shunning any form of armor, she was a terrifying figure to behold on the battlefield. Johun vividly remembered her carving great swaths of destruction through the heart of the enemy ranks, leaving a litter of bodies in her wake. It was said that, by the end of the war, as many Sith Lords had fallen under her twin blades as had been killed by the thought bomb." She was thus clearly one of the greatest duelest the order had to offer at that time.


If I remember correctly, Nyax drew most of his power from the Jedi Temple force nexus, it wasn't his own.


Never read Dark nest so I can't comment.

Glentract, even if it's just for following a nice plotline, typical, but nice I would recommend Legacy. It's my third favourite series to date, mainly because i relate to Cade, alot but then there are alot of smiliarites between Legacy and the rest of the saga. Cade is a White Mace battling inner darkness and he has a natural affinity for Shatterpoint. He has the ability to heal and bring people back to life , however this brings hi mcloser the Dark Side. Like Luke he apprentices to the Sidious-of-Cade's-time though Cade doesn't fall like Luke. Oh and He's a sarcastic bounty hunter, what more could you want?

Originally posted by ares834
True. I was just saying that Bane did win the fight legiatamly.

I don't know that I would call that a legitimate win. We don't know for certain that he did win. It does seem likely that he did, but it was kinda left up in the air. Furthermore, that's not really a combat ability. How are we supposed to judge the strength of will of two different characters?

Originally posted by ares834
Farfalla was clearly a powerful warrior. After all he was a leader of the Jedi during the Battle of Ruusan implying he was both wise and powerful.
As for the weapon master, "Raskta had been part of the campaign on Ruusan. Wielding a blue-bladed lightsaber in each hand, and shunning any form of armor, she was a terrifying figure to behold on the battlefield. Johun vividly remembered her carving great swaths of destruction through the heart of the enemy ranks, leaving a litter of bodies in her wake. It was said that, by the end of the war, as many Sith Lords had fallen under her twin blades as had been killed by the thought bomb." She was thus clearly one of the greatest duelest the order had to offer at that time.

Lord Hoth was the leader, not Farfalla. Farfalla was the number two guy and he only was there because of his charisma, not combat prowess. Raskta effectively equaled Bane in lightsaber combat, so I don't think that helps Bane's case much. The claim that she killed as many Sith Lords as the thought bomb did sounds like it is subject to exaggeration but I don't know. Anyway, Zannah was the one that killed her.

Originally posted by ares834
If I remember correctly, Nyax drew most of his power from the Jedi Temple force nexus, it wasn't his own.

His ability with lightsaber is more what makes him so dangerous. Even Luke shied away from engaging him. The well of Force energy didn't cause that. He was still capable with the Force away from there, strong enough I think to defend himself from Bane's Force attacks and Force Bane to engage in a duel.

Originally posted by ares834
Never read Dark nest so I can't comment.

They're decent books. Worth the read.

Originally posted by BoratBorat
Yeah lets go by your own words, "They are jedi masters so they MUST be uber".

Your own words murdered you.

Way to make no sense, as usual.

Originally posted by Gideon
Thul was particularly powerful due to the fact that he was summoning energy from the collective might of the Colony, rather like Mara Jade used to draw energy from Palpatine when she was his Hand.

Nyax, similarly, was able to enhance his skills by drawing upon the power of a Force nexus beneath Coruscant.

Muur seems to be extraordinarily powerful for a Sith Lord; he seemed confident enough to be able to slay Palpatine by using either Vader or Luke for a vessel. But that's not concrete.
Which would make you wonder how powerful the likes of Xoxaan and the Ajunta Pall really are?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Way to make no sense, as usual. Good rebuttal

Edited out that torrent link, Weltall; that's illegal. Don't do it.

Originally posted by REXXXX
Edited out that torrent link, WeltallNebaris; that's illegal. Don't do it.

Fixed.

Fixing a socks post, helpful.
*Directed at Rex.

Fixing Rex's post.
Unhelpful.

No. Everything that I do is helpful. I did fix Rex's post. Fixing Rex's post was helpful.

QED

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
No. Everything that I do is helpful. I did fix Rex's post. Fixing Rex's post was helpful.

QED That post wasn't helpful.

Originally posted by REXXXX
Edited out that torrent link, Weltall; that's illegal. Don't do it.

So people can post rapidshare links to copyrighted comic books in the Webstrips page but torrents are a no...

Originally posted by mattatom
That post wasn't helpful.
This could go on forever.

Everything I do is helpful. I did compose that post. That post was helpful.

QED

Originally posted by Autokrat
So people can post rapidshare links to copyrighted comic books in the Webstrips page but torrents are a no...


OPPRESSHUN

C'mon Nemesis, you're never really helpful... that's my bit.

But yeah, Rex, I don't know why you just don't ban the female like you always do.

Be quiet.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
C'mon Nemesis, you're never really helpful... that's my bit.

But yeah, Rex, I don't know why you just don't ban the female like you always do. QFT. Two against one Red, democracy rulez with a "z".

Ah democracy, what a blessing.

cause the female is actually forming coherent arguments these days. We don't exactly have an overwhelming number of members, why continue to drive one away?

Originally posted by mattatom
QFT. Two against one Red, democracy rulez with a "z".

I'm not sure you guys realized this, but I'm a communist. I don't believe in democracy. And anyway, you both live outside the usa, which makes you socialists.

Therefore, I am (by default) more democratic than youve. Therefore, My vote counts for more.
Therefore, I win.
QED

Originally posted by Red Nemesis


I'm not sure you guys realized this, but I'm a communist. I don't believe in democracy. And anyway, you both live outside the usa, which makes you socialists.

Therefore, I am (by default) more democratic than youve. Therefore, My vote counts for more.
Therefore, I win.
QED

I despise communists...

You're also a liberal that most likely supports Obama's healthcare plan and therefore, are somewhat socialist.

Originally posted by Autokrat
I despise communists...



Hey, who doesn't? I know I do!

I'm not a Socialist... I'm an Anarchist.

I'm a Communist.

I'm basically the opposite of an anarchist, except I still want to end civilization. And I'd be a primitivist except that I love me some tech.

So I'm an anarcho-primitivist that endorses technology and demands order.

I'm an Anarcho-SocialFascist. I want to sue anarchy to destroy civilization and build in its place a socially-conscious autocracy.