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Ok, so I wanted to see how good Zannah now is, prior to any body-jumping schenanygans, becuase I'm getting confused by some saying shes still mediocre and some saying she beat Bane pretty much. So I'm having her run a gauntlet to determine her actual level. The fights will be all-out everytime, so no-one talk about saber-force rounds. Try to think tactically and in character, becuase from what I've heard she's more of a sorceress, not a tank, so no 'she gets pwned in a saber battle which obviously she'd continue to fight after its made clear she inferior in and not try to make some distance, becuase common sense is stupid' crap. Also, she'll be healed after each fight becuase this thread isn't about stamina.

1. Zayne Carrick
2. Shaak Ti
3. Assajj Ventress
4. Jaina Solo
5. Darth Malak
6. Obi-wan Kenobi
7. Light-side Revan
8. Count Dooku
9. Mace Windu
10. Caedus
11. ROT Bane
12. Yoda
13. Darth Sidious (for kicks)
14. Abeloth (Just cuz)

Also, someone on SD.net said that she only beat Bane becuase he'd grown weaker due to his extensive darkside use. Truthiness? Would you rank DOE Bane above of below the ROT one?

Suprised I didn't see any incarnation of Luke there but I'm not going to comment how far as I haven't read DoE yet.

Luke annoys me too much to warrent a mention.

Edit: Also, it seems like the whole 'progressively more powerful sith' thing has been nullified, as it seems Cognus was chosen not becuase of power, but smarts.
Edit no2: Set Harth sounds BadAss.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, someone on SD.net said that she only beat Bane becuase he'd grown weaker due to his extensive darkside use. Truthiness? Would you rank DOE Bane above of below the ROT one?
LIES! Yes Bane is becoming more frail, but his mastery of the DS is far more impressive now. I would say he is mor epowerful than his RoT incarnation.

Maybe but he no longer possesses the benefits of the orbalisks. For that alone I'd rate his RoT incarnation more highly.

Gets to 11.

Wow, I didn't expect that, you say she's better than no's 7-10? Yay! We finally have a ligitimate female powerhouse. Other than the Exile, I mean. And even then we have some contention on that fact. Traya was also a kind of one I guess.

*resists ABC to do with Luke*

???????

His orbalisks are irrelevent. Because he doesn't have them, he finetuned his saber abilities. DOE Bane is the most powerful version. At the same time, I don't see anyone countering Zannah's sith sorcery because it is just ridiculous.

Wait, what? Are.... are you saying not even Palpatine can stand up to it!?

....

Now I'm really confused!

I say she falls at 8 or 9... The only reason she had the tentacles was because she drew all the DS power that remained from when Ambria was devestated.

What she did on Ambria was amazing. How does one train to resist something like that?

She gets past Jaina or Malak? Oh, honestly...her sorcery is VERY counterable as Bane himself showed

Originally posted by Lightsnake
She gets past Jaina or Malak? Oh, honestly...her sorcery is VERY counterable as Bane himself showed

Showed? You mean the first part of the duel where Bane claimed to have prepared for her sorcery for years? Or do you mean the 2nd part of the duel when Bane was getting his ass kicked?

Lol.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
She gets past Jaina or Malak? Oh, honestly...her sorcery is VERY counterable as Bane himself showed
Yeah, I mean his saber passed through it, his lightning had no effect... Oh and his arm was cut off by it which would have killed him. Yeah it seems very counterable.

Liqhtsnake solos. After all, the gestalt-Bane means Nebaris wins.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Liqhtsnake solos. After all, the gestalt-Bane means Nebaris wins.

I see what you did there.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Showed? You mean the first part of the duel where Bane claimed to have prepared for her sorcery for years? Or do you mean the 2nd part of the duel when Bane was getting his ass kicked?

Are we really going to overrate Zannah of all people now? I mean, really, of all the Sith....I mean, let's not neglect the details Bane's body was no longer near its best and he was aiming to take Zannah over...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Are we really going to overrate Zannah of all people now? I mean, really, of all the Sith....I mean, let's not neglect the details Bane's body was no longer near its best and he was aiming to take Zannah over...

Look at you and your illogical bias mixed with retarded assumption. We are overrating her according to whom, you? And is it really overrating? And are you really going to make these ridiculous excuses for Bane's weakness? Face it, the instance of sith sorcery in DOE was the most powerful we've seen in the entire SW Mythos and Bane was powerless against it. Does that put Zannah above bane? No. Does it in all likelihood allow Zannah to use this technique on anyone providing she doesn't get sliced in half? Yes.

'Powerless?' He threw off her spell. Let's look at this much more reasonably:
1. Have we ever seen anyone prepared for Zannah's sorcery attacks fall victim to them? No. Not even a weakened Bane trying to snatch her body. When Bane has since admitted he has no talent for Sith Sorcery
2. 'Provided she doesn't get sliced in half' being the key words here...
4. Let's not forget all these techniques are from a basic book of Sith Sorcery given to Zannah. They are not unique to her.

Please tell me which was the most powerful part of it. The actual spell? Or the tendrils? Because killing Zannah would solve the issue of the latter and she's demonstrated little to nothing that would mean she'd survive an assault from even Ventress

124
Conspirational shenantyganz.

LS, your time is at an end. The gestalt-sith has come 4 ur soles.

Damn the lovebirds lightsnake and beefington can never get along, how are they going to have kids like this???

Goddamn ugly kids for sure.

J/K, I love those two.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
'Powerless?' He threw off her spell. Let's look at this much more reasonably:
1. Have we ever seen anyone prepared for Zannah's sorcery attacks fall victim to them? No. Not even a weakened Bane trying to snatch her body. When Bane has since admitted he has no talent for Sith Sorcery
2. 'Provided she doesn't get sliced in half' being the key words here...
4. Let's not forget all these techniques are from a basic book of Sith Sorcery given to Zannah. They are not unique to her.
All of this is irrelevant considering your claim of us exaggerating her power. But i'll entertain this.
1. What is your point? There isn't one.
2. Bane couldn't slice her in half and Bane is better than 99% of the known combatants in the mythos.
4. Not sure why you skipped 3 but um, go ahead and prove that this was a "basic book of sith sorcery". And when you can't, don't try to pass some of your claims as "logical deduction".


Little to nothing? She was more than capable of holding off Bane with a saber. The actual spell? Bane WAS powerless against it, whether you argue this or not.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
All of this is irrelevant considering your claim of us exaggerating her power. But i'll entertain this.
1. What is your point? There isn't one.
It should be obvious.

Yeah, because Zannah hadn't trained with him and studied him specifically to fight him.

It's a book.
Of Sith Sorcery.
Found in Freedon Nadd's tomb, who learned the basics of such from Naga Sadow. Are you going to even attempt to argue even for a heartbeat that Zannah's knowledge is exclusive?


When you break through something, that's not 'powerless.' And yes, more than capable of holding off a physically weakened Bane for a period of time.

Jaina, able to hold her own against Caedus would stomp her. Malak could quite probably as well. Let's not ignore the detail of her being boosted by Ambria.

Was the book not driving him the end detail of Zannah being an almost complete failure enough?

Here lightsnake, i'll do you the favor of using the text from the book that shuts you down.





^Owned.

Come prepared next time, and try learning to be objective, it would make your arguments appear at the very least, somewhat valid.

Ah, so the reason Bane couldn't do anything was he was not only physically impaired but didn't know what she was unleashing, bolstered by the Dark Side nearby

Yeah, not really a great counter...especially when a good deal of these combatants are fully capable of killing Zannah.

Are you sincerely going to argue she'd beat Revan or Caedus?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ah, so the reason Bane couldn't do anything was he was not only physically impaired but didn't know what she was unleashing, bolstered by the Dark Side nearby

Yeah, not really a great counter...especially when a good deal of these combatants are fully capable of killing Zannah.

When you're on the losing side, do you always quickly change tactics? I've already proven that Zannah has her own sources of which Bane doesn't know.
Bane was also, according to the author, prepared for her sith sorcery. At the same time, you can keep playing the "severely weakened" card, but Bane was rested and good to go against Zannah. Even if there was ANY proof of the contrary, Bane wouldn't fight someone unless he was ready. Nice try Lightsnake.

And finally, please stop grasping at straws. Nobody said Zannah was all powerful or that she would stand a chance against many of these combatants. She just happens to have a talent for which there is no known defense, unless one knows sith sorcery(probably Sidious and Nadd). And if she meets someone better with a saber, she's toast.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
When you're on the losing side, do you always quickly change tactics? I've already proven that Zannah has her own sources of which Bane doesn't know.
Bane was also, according to the author, prepared for her sith sorcery. At the same time, you can keep playing the "severely weakened" card, but Bane was rested and good to go against Zannah. Even if there was ANY proof of the contrary, Bane wouldn't fight someone unless he was ready. Nice try Lightsnake.
Bane was not at his physical prime as the book made abundantly clear, even if he'd become stronger in the dark side. Hence why he considered taking Serra's body and only decided against it because he wasn't sure if he could.

Bane was prepared for her sorcery. But you cannot be prepared for what you don't know. Bane knew a lot about Zannah's sorcery as he gave her the first tome she studied from and has seen her perform it.
Bane also didn't really have a choice. He was taking a new apprentice and had to finish things.


Weltall?

Bane was able to break out of her spell. The tendrils? There is a very good counter: kill her before they kill you.

Someone far stronger than Zannah in the force could likely throw up a defense or launch a counterattack against Zannah. I find it hard to believe Revan, whose Dark Side knowledge is greater than Zannah's, would be caught off guard by it.

You guys should get a divorce.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Bane was not at his physical prime as the book made abundantly clear, even if he'd become stronger in the dark side. Hence why he considered taking Serra's body and only decided against it because he wasn't sure if he could.
Continually grasping at straws shows your desperation. Your first assumption was that he was "severely weakened". Now your premise was that Bane wasn't at his physical prime. Two different things LS.
And your assertion about Serra is just...Out there. That's all I can say. No logical basis.


Thanks for proving my point. There is no defense for something you do not know or understand. We haven't seen any real defense for the type of sith sorcery that Zannah has produced. Therefore, she has the advantage of that in almost every fight. Is it THE determinant? No.



Thanks, but he couldn't. He was pushing her back, but her defense was impenetrable, although waning.


This is again, retarded. Bane would be considered "far stronger" than Zannah in the force. I love how you bring in these baseless assumptions and pass them off as part of your argument. Prove there are known defenses for high level sith sorcery. We haven't seen them and there's nothing to suggest that they exist. No offense but I don't care what you believe. When you're on the losing end, you start asking random questions as if it was my job to answer, and illogically analyzing situations. It's reasonable to believe Revan knew something basic about sith sorcery from his trips to Malachor V and Korriban, but it's highly unlikely that he could counter what Zannah did.

Sorry to break it to you LS, but you don't have a leg to stand on this time around.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Continually grasping at straws shows your desperation. Your first assumption was that he was "severely weakened". Now your premise was that Bane wasn't at his physical prime. Two different things LS.
And your assertion about Serra is just...Out there. That's all I can say. No logical basis.
Bane being weakened physical and eaten away by the Dark Side is part of the point of the book.

And how about you post the bit just before Cognus murders Serra. Bane considers taking over Serra's body. He decides against it as he's not sure if he can overcome her will


We've seen no defense as it's been sued a grand total of ONCE against an opponent aiming to snatch her body



So in other words, she was gonna go down


It's called a barrier. and Zannah implies strongly in Rule of Two there are defenses against Sith Sorcery as she can't use it against a ready opponent and notes that not focusing on defense in the force with training left her opponent open to her sorcery


Good, and I don't give a damn what you believe. You're the same vile little brat you've always been and I'm really debating just waiting for someone more intelligent and civil whose post doesn't consist of "Insult Insult Insult *vague point, etc."


From someone who doesn't even know what's in the book he's trying to use as proof? And oh, how horrible, I ask you to prove your assertions


Based on what? What knowledge did Zannah obtain that would surpass Revan's own? Revan, who studied under the Sith Emperor it's now concerned? Revan who learned from Malachor V, consisting of notes from Sith Lords who INVENTED Sith sorcery?
The one thing there wasn't a defense against was the black tendrils and I recall Bane being focused on performing his body switch


Oh, do shut it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Bane being weakened physical and eaten away by the Dark Side is part of the point of the book.
Yet it wasn't your original assertion. Stop playing games and focus on one point.


"Bane had ordered her to bury Serra's body, not out of a sense of respect or honor, but simply to keep away scavengers and remove the corpse before it began to decay." As usual, Lightsnake starts making shit up when he's losing.



And yet you suggested that Bane or someone else could "probably block it and counterattack". You're making an absurd assumption, then proving yourself wrong.



show me where



Typical lightsnake. When he's getting his ass kicked, he proceeds to lie to himself, project his faults and insecurities on other people, and call people names. It would be funny if it wasn't damn sad. You don't know the first thing of being civil and you're too much of a tool to learn. I suggest you stop posting because every facet of your "argument" has been shot down.



1. You haven't asked me to prove anything. Bullshit #1
2. I destroyed your shitty argument within seconds just by opening up the book and quoting it. The fact that you're a heated little ***** doesn't change reality.




Yea you're done. I didn't think it was possible to get dumber over time but you've definitely hit the mark. I would post an "owned" image, but I'm not allowed to embarrass a fellow jew.

Not that this has anything to do with anything, but go ahead and prove that. I'll wait until the game comes out before I let the idiot creator dictate canon for me. If we were to believe even half of what he said, then KOTOR wouldn't make any damn sense to begin with.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Yet it wasn't your original assertion. Stop playing games and focus on one point.
I'm pretty sure I mentioned it before.



Are you this laughably stupid? BEFORE BANE HAS COGNUS MURDER SERRA About a page ago. It's hard to bury someone's corpse if you haven't killed them yet. Read. It's about the same page where Cognus kills her, maybe one before


Where did I do this? I said Zannah implies her sorcery is blockable and she does.



Rule of Two, the fight with Raskta's apprentice.



Typical lightsnake. When he's getting his ass kicked, he proceeds to lie to himself, project his faults and insecurities on other people, and call people names. It would be funny if it wasn't damn sad. You don't know the first thing of being civil and you're too much of a tool to learn. I suggest you stop posting because every facet of your "argument" has been shot down.
Oh, do shut it. I've been civil while you've been your typical complete brat self, claiming everything's been shot down. Blah, blah, blah



By virtue of argument, I have


You quoted something almost wholly unrelated and ignore any context? Yeah




As usual, the typical TdTd dick waving.



Video interview with the game designer and writer

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm pretty sure I mentioned it before.
You haven't, but you're known on this forum for denial.




If I'm "laughably stupid", and I'm making you my *****, what does that make you?
And instead of you providing page numbers for your bullshit and asking me to search or it, I see you're conceding.



To assume it's blockable, one must have basic knowledge of sith sorcery, and that's to block basic sith sorcery attacks, not what Zannah did.



Typical lightsnake. When he's getting his ass kicked, he proceeds to lie to himself, project his faults and insecurities on other people, and call people names. It would be funny if it wasn't damn sad. You don't know the first thing of being civil and you're too much of a tool to learn. I suggest you stop posting because every facet of your "argument" has been shot down.
Oh, do shut it. I've been civil while you've been your typical complete brat self, claiming everything's been shot down. Blah, blah, blah
God lord, do you even bother reading your own text? Go back and see what's civil. You're so hilarously predictable. When you get proven wrong, you act like a little girl and you're too much of a dolt to prove you're wrong. Plus, you hight want to spell "quote" correctly.




You haven't provided an argument, you've just been all over the place everytime I prove you wrong. And even if you did provide an argument, you wouldn't ask me to prove my assertions since what I'm doing is proving yours wrong, and backing up my argument with actual text.



And there we have it! Lightsnake's ultimate concession involves "tdtd" and and an insult.




Good for him. If he's to be believed, half of the old republic comics, games and movies are invalid.

Since arguing with you is like arguing with an adolescent ape, I decided to go and check regarding Serra, since you're either too lazy or too inept. What I found has absolutely nothing to do with the argument and further proves that you're desperately using misdirection and flying all over the place in order to conceal your embarrassing attempts at an argument.


Wow LS, nothing about him being too weak to fight Zannah. I rather enjoy you making shit up. Please continue to amuse me before
you finally figure out that you've lost. Again.

Where are your divorce papers???

You know who wasn't in his physical prime? Sidious. You know who else? Dooku. But yeah, they sure as shit let that stand in their way. Also, Bane was only about, what? 50? 60? That's younger than both of those two.



I object to this. It's very logical to say that Zannah has most if not all of Bane's accumulated knowledge. The entire point of Bane's order is to build upon the succesive genertions, grow in secret and end up pwning the jedi. It makes no sense for Bane to keep that knowledge from Zannah, especially since its made abundently clear that hes just a little obsessed withe his concept of his order.

So I think its pretty easy to say that Zannah has most of both Revans and Nadds knowledge, as well as whatever she found herself.

Everything is good up until this:

It's unclear what Bane did with Nadd's holocron but I doubt he gave it to Zannah to study. As for revan's knowledge? Neither one of them had the knowledge of Malachor V, nor the knowledge Revan had before Korriban was plundered.

Can I ask why?



Bane's pretty much consumed everything in Revan's holocron. I'm confused as to why you don't think that would include his Malachor and Korriban knowledge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Can I ask why?
Well, it's possible I mean. I don't feel the need to make an argument for it but i'll just leave it out in the realm of possibility.




There is no proof that Revan's holocron contained all of the teachings of Revan. There was a lot of philosophy and some arcane rituals but Bane learned that holocron within a few weeks, so the information couldn't have been in great detail. He then destroyed the holocron which pretty much means Zannah never saw it or Revan's teachings.

Fair enough, but don't mind me if I do the opposite.



Well theres no real reason why Revan wouldn't include that knowledge either. I mean, why would he want to keep that knowledge away from the one deemed worthy of finding his holocron. He didn't even deem himself worthy (as it doesn't appear when he goes back in Kotor).
And its made pretty clear that Bane's been studying non-stop for weeks. That's a lot of infor he could learn. That coupled with Banes high learning rate make it possible in my eyes. And its logical that he'd pass on that knowledge Zannah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Fair enough, but don't mind me if I do the opposite.



Well theres no real reason why Revan wouldn't include that knowledge either. I mean, why would he want to keep that knowledge away from the one deemed worthy of finding his holocron. He didn't even deem himself worthy (as it doesn't appear when he goes back in Kotor).
And its made pretty clear that Bane's been studying non-stop for weeks. That's a lot of infor he could learn. That coupled with Banes high learning rate make it possible in my eyes. And its logical that he'd pass on that knowledge Zannah.

Because he wasn't exactly looking for a successor. Read POD carefully. There were only a few rituals in there, and most of it was dark side philosophy. Unless you want to tell me that Revan only knew a few rituals during his stay in the underground cities on Malachor V and the tombs of Korriban, it's logical to believe that Revan included only a fraction of his knowledge in the holocron.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You haven't, but you're known on this forum for denial.

Only when I'm arguing against you. Up until then, you're a pathetic little lapdog like you were to the Antediluvians



Amused at your denial

I don't own the book, idiot. I rented it from the library.



So it's totally unblockable to light siders all of a sudden? And 'what Zannah did? Based on?

And no, Zannah implies one's force defenses will counter her sorcery. She says in her duel with Raskta's apprentice that not having focused on force defense leaves one more vulnerable to her sorcery. AND not to mention the tiny yet crucial detail she only pulls it off when he turns away from her distracted



Oh, do shut it. I've been civil while you've been your typical complete brat self, claiming everything's been shot down. Blah, blah, blah
God lord, do you even bother reading your own text? Go back and see what's civil. You're so hilarously predictable. When you get proven wrong, you act like a little girl and you're too much of a dolt to prove you're wrong. Plus, you hight want to spell "quote" correctly.
Long bawwing here.
You might want to spell 'might' correctly if you're going to pull that.




With what? When have you proved...anything? You pointed out Zannah had other sources of knowledge which isn't what I contested, given I was talking about her SITH SPELL

And failing to address most of my points, given nowhere in the text does it state what Zannah is using is unblockable



Lightsnake's irritation involves bringing up your past as a complete sockpuppet and you riding the backs of your betters



Based upon?


I love how you say I was lying, then quote the bit that proves that what I was saying was true/


Yeah, he's only considering possessing Serra because3 of his physical issues and stops because he's not sure if he can overcome her.

No weakness there...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Only when I'm arguing against you. Up until then, you're a pathetic little lapdog like you were to the Antediluvians
Please advise, you lost the argument yesterday. I am only responding because I find your inability to admit defeat, humorous.

And once again, if I'm a pathetic little lapdog, and I'm kicking your ass, what does that make you? I would also ask you to prove that I'm tdtd, but that goes beyond your capabilities.




So I insult you for your continual denial, and your response is that you're amused with my denial? It's so easy to kick your ass in a debate lightsnake. You're a predictable little geek who fails at being objective and starts crying as soon as you start losing.


AHAHAAH so you make bullshit up and misquote things and I'm the idiot because I thought you owned the book? AHAHAHAHAHA




Who said it was totally unblockable? The onus is on you to prove it is blockable with no knowledge of sith sorcery, or even basic knowledge of sith sorcery.


Page number or shut up. You've made up too much shit for me to trust anything you've said.



God lord, do you even bother reading your own text? Go back and see what's civil. You're so hilarously predictable. When you get proven wrong, you act like a little girl and you're too much of a dolt to prove you're wrong. Plus, you hight want to spell "quote" correctly.
Long bawwing here.
You might want to spell 'might' correctly if you're going to pull that.
Do you know how to quote things anymore, or are you too heated to think?




Ah, and lightsnake continues the lying. You claimed that it can be countered because she learned ONLY from what Bane gave her. I proved you wrong and now you're back peddling. This is too easy.


You haven't made ANY valid points. You jump from one point to the next after the first one is destroyed, you're desperately grasping at straws, and your personal attacks are hilarious.
The text doesn't have to show that it's unblockable. But there's no proof that it is blockable. Furthermore, because Bane prepared for her sith sorcery and was totally at a loss, it reinforces my point that it's highly unlikely that someone who isn't adept at sith sorcery could block her spells. You lose.




Except I haven't been riding anyone's backs, I've been kicking your ass all by myself, and everytime I do kick your ass, you resort to the hilarious "you're a sock who rides other people" insult, which is the last step before you concede. Too predictable.




Except the quote proves that you were lying. You claimed the quote would have something to do with Bane being weakened, whereas the quote had NOTHING to do with that. But please, i want to see you spin this to fit your argument.



Sorry, the quote makes it clear that it's a battle of wills. It has nothing to do with Bane's alledged weakness. You're done lightsnake, but as the past shows us, you don't admit defeat. You just ***** and back peddle and hope the other person just gives up arguing with you, then claim victory. You're owned.

Btw, I'm wondering if you're ever going to have a legitimate argument here again, or if you will persist with the Ad hominen attacks as your argument. Don't worry it doesn't affect me because if you were intelligent and self aware, I would be a little peeved. Since you're a mentally unstable social outcast, I think your rants help you sleep better at night.



I will pay anyone $10 via paypal if they can spot a valid point in Lightsnake's argument. You heard correctly..

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I don't own the book
Wheres my $10?

rofl!

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
rofl! I'm being Serial

To be honest though, that wasn't a point or anything, just a factual statement that arised from the ignorance of the text.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
To be honest though, that wasn't a point or anything, just a factual statement that arised from the ignorance of the text. Conceded, may I have a $9.99 prize for trying?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Please advise, you lost the argument yesterday. I am only responding because I find your inability to admit defeat, humorous.

And once again, if I'm a pathetic little lapdog, and I'm kicking your ass, what does that make you? I would also ask you to prove that I'm tdtd, but that goes beyond your capabilities.
Once again: it makes you utterly delusional. You have this weird misconception that even responding to anyone means you're 'kicking their ass' even when



Considering you posted the section that actually backed up what I was saying...


How was I misquoting things? I said Bane was physically weakened and so considered taking over Serra, but decided against it.
You accused me of lying and cited a seciton where Bane has her corpse buried. I said to read the previous page...which backed me up




For the last time: Zannah implies directly her sorcery is blockable when she duels Sarro.
Hell, zannah managed to instinctively shield herself from the Thought Bomb, which is Sith sorcery, with no training, on instinct. Other examples of defending oneself from Sith Magic exist as well.



Duel with Sarro Xaj. I'm not obliged to provide you with anything else.
And please inform me what I've made up. I've said that Bane was deteriorating physically and considered taking over Princess Serra.




You know, all the times you screw up on spelling and grammar and the quote function and you think you can talk down to others with it? Hilarious




I was incorrect when I said she got everything from the one Sith Scroll yes. What IS the overall point here?


Uh, no. Just about every external technique is blockable and Sith sorcery is also blockable. Bane aimed to take her body there. It had one use. No more complicated than that.


Ugh. Even after providing the text...Bane prepared specifically for her spell. He was unaware she'd studied elsewhere as you yourself provided. As a result, he was unprepared for that assault after he'd just had to throw off her spell




Well, you are a brownnosing little sock who's clung to me, Gideon and the Antediluvians until we disagree with you where you go into frothing outrage.




Uhhh....Bane was physically deteriorating, hence the whole "go learn the secrets of essence transfer. It's a big point of the book. What the hell was I lying about?



Here's a thought: Is Bane living out his homosexual fantasies by taking over the bodies of women or is he attempting this because his body is deteriorating? Which is it?
Grow up.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Once again: it makes you utterly delusional. You have this weird misconception that even responding to anyone means you're 'kicking their ass' even when



Considering you posted the section that actually backed up what I was saying...


How was I misquoting things? I said Bane was physically weakened and so considered taking over Serra, but decided against it.
You accused me of lying and cited a seciton where Bane has her corpse buried. I said to read the previous page...which backed me up




For the last time: Zannah implies directly her sorcery is blockable when she duels Sarro.
Hell, zannah managed to instinctively shield herself from the Thought Bomb, which is Sith sorcery, with no training, on instinct. Other examples of defending oneself from Sith Magic exist as well.



Duel with Sarro Xaj. I'm not obliged to provide you with anything else.
And please inform me what I've made up. I've said that Bane was deteriorating physically and considered taking over Princess Serra.




You know, all the times you screw up on spelling and grammar and the quote function and you think you can talk down to others with it? Hilarious




I was incorrect when I said she got everything from the one Sith Scroll yes. What IS the overall point here?


Uh, no. Just about every external technique is blockable and Sith sorcery is also blockable. Bane aimed to take her body there. It had one use. No more complicated than that.


Ugh. Even after providing the text...Bane prepared specifically for her spell. He was unaware she'd studied elsewhere as you yourself provided. As a result, he was unprepared for that assault after he'd just had to throw off her spell




Well, you are a brownnosing little sock who's clung to me, Gideon and the Antediluvians until we disagree with you where you go into frothing outrage.




Uhhh....Bane was physically deteriorating, hence the whole "go learn the secrets of essence transfer. It's a big point of the book. What the hell was I lying about?



Here's a thought: Is Bane living out his homosexual fantasies by taking over the bodies of women or is he attempting this because his body is deteriorating? Which is it?
Grow up.
http://finefilter.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/cat2.jpg'
This is a picture of a furry kitten. You might ask why I'm posting this? Well you're in luck, I'll tell you!

I'm posting this because you have no argument, nor have you attempted to make one. You constantly make yourself look like a heated, foolish child with your outbursts and inappropriate remarks, and instead of conceding that you have no argument and that whatever points you "attempted" to make have been defeated, you continue with your nonsense hoping I just give up.

So from now on, until the time where you can grow common sense and a brain and concede that you're wrong, I'm going to be posting pictures of furry animals in the hopes that by looking at them, you will calm down and realize how foolish you've been looking. Ciao for now LS, I expect a hilarious rebuttal!

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
http://finefilter.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/cat2.jpg'


awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! that is so adorable

I'm the only one who thinks the word "hilarious" should be preceded with an, and not a?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm the only one who thinks the word "hilarious" should be preceded with an, and not a?

They both sound shitty.

I kno, right? Should take the h out.

Self pwnage.

You try too hard, DS.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Self pwnage.

You try too hard, DS.

but u notice he can recognize and diagnose it in others. Surely that means something, even if he never associates it with himself.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Self pwnage.

You try too hard, DS.

I would take you seriously but after your last embarrassment a few months ago, you really stopped posting. Thanks for the troll

Originally posted by truejedi
but u notice he can recognize and diagnose it in others. Surely that means something, even if he never associates it with himself.
Maybe facing the failure would be too painful? Being riddled with hypocrisy (yay! I finally learned how to spell it!) can't be easy.

I'd feel sorry for him if it wasn't so gosh darn funny!

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Maybe facing the failure would be too painful? Being riddled with hypocrisy (yay! I finally learned how to spell it!) can't be easy.

I'd feel sorry for him if it wasn't so gosh darn funny!

Gotta love this guy. He had to wait before I was in another argument to show his text. That argument months ago must have really damaged his self esteem to the point where he just lurks around the forum.

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/animals/images/primary/domestic-cat.jpg
This is Mr. Snurples and he's a wild one! He likes to climb in the dryer when Mary Sue is folding the laundry, and also likes to eat Mary Sue's caviar when she's not looking! This little kittie is a lot of trouble! His favorite thing to do is chase around a laser pointer and then mope when the laser pointer is turned off. This is one adorable little feline!!!

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I would take you seriously but after your last embarrassment a few months ago, you really stopped posting. Thanks for the troll You take internet too seriously, are you sure you have a girlfriend or is your "girlfriend" a blow up doll made in china?

I don't take the internet seriously at all and if my gf was a blowup doll, I would most certainly not buy it from China, I'd try to increase Domestic sales.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
http://finefilter.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/cat2.jpg'
This is a picture of a furry kitten. You might ask why I'm posting this? Well you're in luck, I'll tell you!

I'm posting this because you have no argument, nor have you attempted to make one. You constantly make yourself look like a heated, foolish child with your outbursts and inappropriate remarks, and instead of conceding that you have no argument and that whatever points you "attempted" to make have been defeated, you continue with your nonsense hoping I just give up.

So from now on, until the time where you can grow common sense and a brain and concede that you're wrong, I'm going to be posting pictures of furry animals in the hopes that by looking at them, you will calm down and realize how foolish you've been looking. Ciao for now LS, I expect a hilarious rebuttal!

I love when I point out that DS's own postings only strengthened my point he does...this.

It's also funny how DS ignores a few other things:
1. Bane says the defense against Zannah's Sith Sorcery is one's strength one of will. The idea that most of the top level combatants will lack will power to fight against what they know to be a fabrication? Hilarious
2. Zannah's "Dark Side given Form" technique? Bane didn't even try to defend against it. He slashed it and blasted it with lightning, then decided to just kill Zannah with her energy away from defense. No throwing up barriers or shields. Oh, and a touch from one brought pain so intense Bane nearly fell unconscious, so one can forgive him for not focusing everything on defense..


Cute cat, btw

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I love when I point out that DS's own postings only strengthened my point he does...this.
Everything I have done further weakoned your psuedo argument. And it's funny how you won't admit to prolonging the argument until I start posting cats, yet you point out my love for felines. Gotta love your self awareness. But since you kept this crap relatively short, I'll amuse myself.


Please use the quote function correctly so I don't have to do it for you.
Where does Bane says that? And explain how the dark side tendrils are fabrications. Also, make sure you have the books around and aren't just "renting from the library". That way you can get your quotes in order and not have to make shit up.

Did you miss the part where the tendrils took out Bane's arm completely from the elbow? Or did the cute girl/guy next to you distracted you while you were "reading in the library"?



I know.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I don't take the internet seriously at all and if my gf was a blowup doll, I would most certainly not buy it from China, I'd try to increase Domestic sales. Yes you do, you and LS have been arguing for years over science fiction, damn but i think you argue more than my parents


But seriously dude, im just messing with ya, i am trolling on purpose because it is getting incredibly dull here, hopefully you have a sense of humor because ls seems like a hard nut to crack.

I have THE sense of humor on this forum. They call me the SW equivalent of Richard Pryor(well they don't but they should).

DS is a complete *******, and about as funny as a shotgun to the face (though that's a bad example becuase that's hi-larious) but I think he may be right here Lightsnake. I may not have the book, but he makes a compelling argument.

I assume you mean a-hole(the only thing I can think of that's derrogatory, 7 letters, and makes some kind of sense). Am I to assume that you're...Agreeing with me? Mark this down guys and gals(generally guys since only girls with mental disorders come here), Darth Exodus agreed with the mighty one, the big Cheese, sexiest man on this forum.

Yes I mean a-hole and I only admitted to the possibility that you might be right ok? So don't let it go to your head.

Now if you excuse me I must go watch the Dexter final (best show evar!)

Well lets go ahead and change out might with "definitely are" shall we? I see no reason not to.

AND I DON'T LIKE BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO!! RAAAARGGH!!



















































AND THOSE CATS ARE ADORABLE!!

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Everything I have done further weakoned your psuedo argument. And it's funny how you won't admit to prolonging the argument until I start posting cats, yet you point out my love for felines. Gotta love your self awareness. But since you kept this crap relatively short, I'll amuse myself.


Please use the quote function correctly so I don't have to do it for you.
Where does Bane says that? And explain how the dark side tendrils are fabrications.
Context. I discussed the tendrils next point. I was referring specifically to her spell

Again, provide what I've made up?


Oh, look a gay joke. I'm sure in your mind this is the pinnacle of wit. Given Bane was:
A. nearly knocked out
B. Charging Zannah without even trying to defend himself

We know the tendrils are deadly. They're manifestations of the Dark Side. Bane demonstrated that one can dodge them and they have the horrible downside of leaving Zannah quite drained while she maintains them. And given Bane went right for her, there's nothing indicating they'll rip through a barrier or shield

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Context. I discussed the tendrils next point. I was referring specifically to her spell
Which is irrelevant. Not sure where you discuss this though


Aside from grasping at straws in almost every post since the beginning, which made me post pictures of kittens, you made up the quote about Serra, told me to look it up, when I looked it up and said it had nothing to do with your post, you got angry and made more shit up. Do I really have to quote your own posts? Are you really this dense?



Prove he was nearly knocked out. Then prove he wasn't trying to defend himself. Finally, prove he COULD defend himself. You're the best at making shit up LS. Always a pleasure.


Bullshit. Look how you try and turn that around. There's no indication that one can even BLOCK them, especially since his lightsaber couldn't do any damage. It's on you to prove Bane, or anybody with only basic sith sorcery knowledge, possesses the ability to block something like this. You haven't, and you won't.

Here's a puppy.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3278/2750903602_de4eb6f2be.jpg

Bane was capable of creating pure manifestations of the Force, as he indicated earlier in the book when he took Andeddu's holocron. However, we do know that there are some techniques in the Force against which there is no defense (*edit*based on Kreia's claims at least).

BTW, there is really no reason to post the pictures.

the cute animal picture was funny the first time and mildly amusing the second time.

To which I respond with:



I provided proof to shut down that assertion.


Making shit up because you don't like a character.


TO which I respond with the fact that the book mentions no such thing and accuse you of making shit up, to which you make more shit up in attempts to
redirect the issue.


Making more shit up.


More bullshit assumptions

I then respond with:


You respond with:

To which I accuse you of making more shit up with:


You proceeded to dig yourself into a hole with:

To which I respond with

then you continue to grasp at straws with:

to which I respond with:


That pretty much sums up the Ownage on my part. I expect lightsnake to come here with a slew of insults and more of the Lightsnake denial defense mechanism.

I'm bored.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm bored.

*does something entertaining*

Yaaaay!

I'll help-

http://www.cracked.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/creepy-capes.jpg

Capes and back rubs, united at last.

Yeah... I had exactly that in mind too.

How awesome is that!

And the man-crush continues.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
And the man-crush continues. i-r-o-n-y

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
To which I respond with:



I provided proof to shut down that assertion.

And I admitted I was incorrect there. And?


Oh, for...we know Lake Natth bolsters one's Dark Side's abilities by the proximity. And again, you said Bane was powerless against Zannah's Sith Sorcery, when he distinctly overcame her first spell


The book mentions age and the orbalisks took their toll on Bane.
You even quoted the bit where Bane considers taking over Serra.
What was made up precisely?

....it's making things up to say 'Bane had to finish things'


I like how most of what you posted were responses to completely different points and some of those postings only confirmed my own points on the matter.

seriously, are you that dense and stubborn?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And I admitted I was incorrect there. And?
Show me where you admitted you were wrong.



I said he was powerless against her tendrils.


Bullshit lightsnake. The orbalisks and age are mentioned in the first 50 pages, I quoted what you said about Serra. Stop trying to backpeddle.



I like it how you're so full of shit that you have to continue lying, knowing anybody else can look at the responses in sequential order in our threads. This is truly hilarious now, that instead of admitting to being wrong, you have to continue lying. You're owned.


I already called you dense sweetheart. Try to get new insults and not parrot everything I say. You're owned.

Beefington, you just saying bullshit over and over doesn't constitute an argument...

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Beefington, you just saying bullshit over and over doesn't constitute an argument...

Thanks, try reading the thread next time numbnuts. And if you're saying the correct bullshit over and over again which happens to be an argument, then it constitutes an argument. Come back when pass an IQ test.

Originally posted by Lightsnake


seriously, are you that dense and stubborn? You need to suck my dick.

My manliness will tame the beast within you that compels you to argue with the darth sexy, the only one.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Thanks, try reading the thread next time numbnuts. And if you're saying the correct bullshit over and over again which happens to be an argument, then it constitutes an argument. Come back when pass an IQ test.

I have been reading it and although I agree with what you're saying, Lightsnake is doing a much better job of arguing his side. The problem for you is that you aren't saying the correct anything. All you can say is "Bullshit lightsnake" and...

"I like it how you're so full of shit that you have to continue lying, knowing anybody else can look at the responses in sequential order in our threads. This is truly hilarious now, that instead of admitting to being wrong, you have to continue lying. You're owned. "

That is in no way an argument. It's just flaming. Same with you feeling the need to tell me to come back when I pass an IQ test. Not cool, man.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I have been reading it and although I agree with what you're saying, Lightsnake is doing a much better job of arguing his side. The problem for you is that you aren't saying the correct anything. All you can say is "Bullshit lightsnake" and...
LS has no side. His argument has been trumped. I sincerely hope you've read the book. And all I'm doing is reposting his nonsense and proving the lies. Learn to follow an argument.


That in itself doesn't have to be an argument. That is what we call accusing someone of doing something that's factual.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
LS has no side. His argument has been trumped. I sincerely hope you've read the book. And all I'm doing is reposting his nonsense and proving the lies. Learn to follow an argument.


That in itself doesn't have to be an argument. That is what we call accusing something of doing something that's factual.

Yes, I have read the book. I was a little pissed in fact that they increased the spacing between the text to make it seem longer than it actually was. Did you notice it was a much faster read than most other books? There is significantly less on each page than other SW books.

It still is just ridiculous though that you seem to think arguing consists of cussing a lot and posting pictures of cats and dogs. Come on, now.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Yes, I have read the book. I was a little pissed in fact that they increased the spacing between the text to make it seem longer than it actually was. Did you notice it was a much faster read than most other books? There is significantly less on each page than other SW books.

It still is just ridiculous though that you seem to think arguing consists of cussing a lot and posting pictures of cats and dogs. Come on, now.

K here's a test for you since you claim to have followed the argument.

1. Find out who started the name calling(because I know I didn't but I finished it). And I explained why I started doing it, because the other party had no argument.
2. Show me what LS has proved, if anything.
3. Show me what I have failed to prove.

Go----->

And yes, the newer SW books get shorter and shorter, almost rushed.

No way. I'm not getting into an argument with you over whether what you and LS did and did not prove. The name calling is childish either way, and you saying you finished it isn't something you should wear as a badge of honor. That just means you fell into his game of name calling to begin with and then decided to continue with it even after he wised up.

AMENx1000.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
No way. I'm not getting into an argument with you over whether what you and LS did and did not prove. The name calling is childish either way, and you saying you finished it isn't something you should wear as a badge of honor. That just means you fell into his game of name calling to begin with and then decided to continue with it even after he wised up.

That's fine, that's who I am. The name calling sure is childish but I just follow him. If he has the courage to admit he's wrong, we can move on. If not, it'll be the same thing.

Btw, I prefer his namecalling to his lying. At least one is humor while the other one is tragic.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Show me where you admitted you were wrong.
Page three: I was incorrect when I said she got everything from the one Sith Scroll yes. What IS the overall point here?


He briefly failed to attack them and then merely decided to attack her instead? How does this mean 'powerless?' He didn't throw up any defense. He kept offense


....

Okay, let me make myself clearer:
It's mentioned on page 10 alone that Bane's body is declining. Quote:
"After decades of focusing and channeling its power, his body was beginning to break down. His condition was exacerbated by the lingering effects of the orbalisk armor."
This was the reason he went after Andeddu's Holocron, coupled with fears of Zannah's weakness. This problem DID NOT go away as the book progressed. When he meets Serra, his body is still deteriorating. Bane does not go around body jumping into people for his health. He would not even consider it unless his body was going down the tubes.



Yes. Anyone CAN look at the sequential order of those, which is exactly why I'm confident here. Some of the things you listed as my responses were not direct quotes at all


You called me 'dense sweetheart?' Okaaaaay.

I reiterate my original points:
1. Zannah was incapable of surviving a prolonged engagement against Bane. She herself says that she would've been incapable of that
2. Bane was far from powerless against her mental sith spell. Zannah in Rule of two in her duel with Sarro implies that one with defenses in the force is capable of defending themselves. Bane himself says the defense is force of will. And the conquering of one's fears is shown to be a factor.
3. The dark side tendrils are not anywhere near an insta win. They leave Zannah severely weakened to maintain them and vulnerable to an outright attack.
4. There is no evidence the tentacles are unblockable in the slightest. Bane's defenses against them consisted of slashing and blasting at them, with no defense. As they are physical manifestations of the Dark Side, throwing up a shield which would be the manifestation of the light would go to power to power.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Page three: I was incorrect when I said she got everything from the one Sith Scroll yes. What IS the overall point here?
That you claimed you already said you were incorrect. You didn't. Moving on.



Powerless. As in unable to do anything about the Tendrils. That's the epitome of "powerless".




There is NO connection between the first part of the statement and the 2nd part. You tried to claim that Bane couldn't do A, B, and C to Serra because (insert whatever reason here). You are not an authority on the why, nor is there any logical reasoning behind what you stated. You're just trying TOO hard to connect things and there's no connection. It's not logical deduction, it's nothing, yet you keep repeating it because you think it somehow makes your point.




Except they were, unless you're claiming I made them up. Since that's as illogical as it gets, I'll chalk this up to stalling and making shit up in order to deflect from your "argument".



I called you dense. You repeated me. Ergo, you're a parrot.


Except this was never in contention so it's irrelevant. The argument spilled into the sith spells. Pretending like this was the contention all along is flat out lying.

Except this sith spell had nothing to do with "will". It was tendrils made out of pure dark side energy. Will is irrelevant here, and you still didn't give me the page # to the RO2 quote.

Nobody claimed they were, you're grasping at straws again.

There is no evidence that the tenticles ARE blockable. Bane COULDNT defend against them. You have to prove that he wasn't trying to defend against him when everything points to the contrary. He was prepared for her first spell and he was powerless for the advanced one. It's simple LS, everyone else seems to understand this but you. Throwing up a shield? Yea, prove it. Throwing up a shield against pure dark side energy, especially since he couldn't touch it with a saber, looks to be quite irrelevant.

And finally, if you're going to play psychologist, I'll do it too. Bane is a master of defense. If he didn't put up a shield, he knew that this wasn't something that was blockable by a force shield. There we go, that was easy.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
That you claimed you already said you were incorrect. You didn't. Moving on.

Where did I do that? I said "I was incorrect." Nothing about prior anything



He wasn't powerless against her earlier spell.

Moreover, nothing says Bane was powerkless. He merely notes he couldn't harm them



Don't be foolish. The first chapter says at great length Bane's body is breaking down and the past year, it's gotten especially bad. Hence why he is even CONSIDERING transferring bodies.

Just because the text does not explicitly state it shouldn't bar you from doing some thinking here. Answer this question:
Why is Bane even considered switching to Serra's body?



Taken out of context =/= making things up



It's hard to find an insult you haven't used.


You didn't even clarify what you meant by 'Sith Sorcery' and used it as a blanket term.
The Sith spell is part of 'Sith Sorcery'


As I've said:
The duel with Sarro Xaj. I don't own Ro2 either and I've cited my source there. If you have a problem, let me know after you read it


That's the implication people seem to be making

You're aware the 'pure dark side energy' detail is redundant, given shields are also created from pure force energy and Jedi manifest their powers from pure light side energy, right?
Nothing says Bane was incapable of defending. It says clearly "He couldn't harm them which meant he had to kill Zannah before they killed him" paraphrased.
And the assertion they are unblockable? Onus is on you, DS. The text never states they are, merely he cannot harm them. He was prepared for the first spell as he'd spent...two decades or so preparing for it. He was unprepared for the second as she used a technique unknown to him


Or more realistically, he was unwilling to gamble his own life on a might as opposed to the definite of Zannah's death.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where did I do that? I said "I was incorrect." Nothing about prior anything

You were saying? Or am I making this up?




Yet nobody ever discussed her first spell. Stop with the misdirection.




Which again had nothing to do with Serra. Keep grasping at straws.



There's thinking and then there's nonsense. He didn't want to take the chance of fighting her will if he decided to use her body. This is all irrelevant.




You've been guilty of both.




On your side it's easy, seeing its always the same thing.



I didn't have to clarify, because sith sorcery in this case involves the spells. We both know he dealt with the first one, so that was NEVER in contention.



No you didn't. You said "Something something something, go read it". That's not a citation.



Nobody is making any of the implications you've posted.


Ah, talk about doing some thinking here lightsnake? Nothing has to say it, it is shown that he was incapable of defending. Since that is what is shown, you have to prove otherwise.

The onus is actually on you seeing as how the text shows that he was incapable of blocking them, but its cute how you like to throw it back at me. You claim that they're not unblockable, so prove it. Bane couldn't block them. I could play your game and say the text never says that they're not unblockable.. See? Either way, the onus is on you to prove that they're blockable using anything other than this "pseudo logic".



Once again, your usual last resort is playing the role of psychologist, using whatever you can come up with that you think will help your website. You don't know why bane did what he did and even when you make an assertion, at least make sure that it's feasible.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You were saying? Or am I making this up?
I think I will accuse you of dishonesty at this point

Page three, my words: I was incorrect when I said she got everything from the one Sith Scroll yes. What IS the overall point here?

I said "I already said" several pages later



Umm, yeah we were. At least I thought so. If you meant otherwise, you should've clarified, because Sith Sorcery is ambiguous




Answer again: Why is he even considering taking her body? You can't seriously think Bane was considering taking her body for fun. If his body was in prime conditions, why would he be considering taking Serra's body? Do me a favor and stop jeering for a minute to actually answer that



Why is he Even considering using the body transfer on her at ALL?
Has Bane realized its his ambition to be a woman? Or is his own body not at its best and he wants a new one? He thinks after he'll need to get clones made or find someone younger with a weaker will.
What does this imply? Bane plans to body jump for fun?



I don't think you're exactly a good authority on this given you've been doing both





yes, I find it hard to keep patience with you


So you say 'Sith Sorcery,' a large blanket term when Zannah was using more than one example of it and it's my fault for not psychically deciphering what you meant?



No, I'm saying "she said it during the fight with Sarro Xaj in Rule of Two"
It's not my problem if that's not enoug for you. I've made my point and sourced it



'Nobody' seems to consist of you and you alone


Was it?
For this to be valid Show me where tried to defend
He tried to attack the tentacles. There was no attempt at defens


Because they're made of pure dark side energy. Such a thing has never been unblockable in the entire mythos especially by pure force energy on its own.
The text never says they're unblockable. Bane never TRIES to block. He attacks them twice, then decides to kill Zannah.
I'm not sure how much simpler this can be. He just said he was incapable of harming them. Nothing about blocking them. He doesn't even try.
Do you have anything else at all? Are we supposed to believe there is only one technique Zannah has discovered that is completely unblockable when absolutely no other sith sorcery or even dark side technique incorporating energy has ever been unblockable? That pure dark side energy will rip through pure Force or light side energy?



Um, actually we do. Bane thinks he can't harm them and decides to just kill Zannah. In fact, he's about to. Zannah is lying on the ground helpless and Bane swings his saber before a tentacle catches his arm. He totally eschewed defense in favor of killing Zannah and he nearly did it.

Tell me how that's in any way unreasonable.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I think I will accuse you of dishonesty at this point

Page three, my words: I was incorrect when I said she got everything from the one Sith Scroll yes. What IS the overall point here?

I said "I already said" several pages later

What the hell? You said you were "incorrect", then you asked where you said you were incorrect. WHat's so confusing here and where's the "Dishonesty"?



What is to clarify LS, we both know what happened with the first spell, so why would we even talk about it? You're a reasonably intelligent college student, you know we were discussing the alleged ambiguity of the second spell.



First, the whole point was you misquoting or attributing a quote to something that wasn't there. At least admit you were wrong in that regard instead of swinging for the fences.
Secondly, he knew that his body would EVENTUALLY wither away, as stated in the first parts of the book, but not at the very least, for a few years. So yes he was looking for potential candidates, but that in no way meant he was "weakened", or not in prime form. If anything, I would say DOE Bane was his most powerful incarnation.



See above.




Prove it, I've proven my assertions and accusations.






I would say the same for you. At least I learned when to quit, when I'm wrong.



Unless you're playing stupid, everybody can deduce which part of the "sith sorcery" we are arguing. And next time to safeguard myself against this time consuming affair.




This is another example of you continuing a losing argument. Most of us are college students and we are at least vaguely familiar with how to properly site sources. You telling me something happened, and then telling me to "go find it", doesn't constitute as a valid source. Otherwise, I can say "luke had hot man on man action with Han in this book, go look it up", and that would be a valid source. I ask you NICELY to please stop playing stupid as a ploy of misdirection.




Taking your denial to the next level, eh?



Do you need the text to say that explicitly for you to act as if it's "proof"? Bane is a master of putting up defenses when he needed to. It's VERY logical to believe that Bane had no defense for this sorcery, otherwise he would have stopped it in some way. What you're doing is saying that you know more than Bane in this regard, which is false.



The text never says this form of sorcery is blockable, ESPECIALLY by anyone who is unfamiliar with advanced sith sorcery. Unless you can prove someone who is completely unknowledgeable in regards to this attack can somehow defend against it, concede the point.

You love playing semantics when the point is all but lost huh?

Another classic last resort you use is the "Do we believe" or "are we supposed to believe", as if people are agreeing with you. Yes, we're supposed to believe that Zannah's technique is unblockable if one doesn't have specific knowledge of sith sorcery. It's common sense Lightsnake. And for the last time, stop grasping at straws. Nobody said it was unblockable. But logic dictates that one who is unknowledgeable cannot block it.




And Bane is the ultimate authority on this, not you LS. Once you understand that, we can move on. If Bane thinks he can't defend against it or can't harm it, he's probably right. You have no evidence or logical argument that he's wrong.

I applaud you for maintaining civility this time, though.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
What the hell? You said you were "incorrect", then you asked where you said you were incorrect. WHat's so confusing here and
where's the "Dishonesty"?

You:That you claimed you already said you were incorrect. You didn't. Moving on.
Me: *Cites page 3*. Now kindly drop it


No, I din't. The first is the one typically referred to as sorcery/spell. And given that Bane couldn't stop the spell from hitting him..



False. Page 10 alone:
His body is described as beginning to breaking down
His condition is described as 'made worse' by the orbalisks. Their damage is described as been done
"The last year, however, had seen more pronounced deterioration."
Earlier on, he's noted he's become slower with a lightsaber as well. Like it or not, but Bane's body is weakened.
Also: Age was beginning to take its toll on Bane, but it was nothing compared to the toll already wrought upon his body by decades of drawing upon the Dark Side of the Force
All that's from page 10, except maybe the saber part.




And answered




I kind of already have there...





That's a laugh



Fine, clarified, then. And it's still unsupported




I have listed the book. I have listed the exact scene in which it happens.
Case closed. If you're going to just whine and rant about it instead of arguing it, it's not my problem if you're well read or not.




I don't see anybody but you arguing this



As of when? Bane's best has always been in offense.

Prove it. He is facing something new, with no guarantee it will work. He says himself the reason he's attacking Zannah is he cannot HARM the attack


When does Bane say anything about them being blockable or not?



Why would this one singular technique suddenly show properties no other technique ever has before or since when the text made no specific note of that and pure dark side energy has always been counterable by pure force energy?
It says explicitly Bane merely couldn't harm them. Period


Based on what? Bane DOES have specific knowledge of Sith sorcery as he studied it in order to defend against it. He learned all the spells and rituals from holocrons as Revan's, Belia Darzu's and Freedon Nadd's, his OWN Holocron continues information on Sith Sorcery.
Why would throwing up a force shield or barrier be ineffective? It's never bene that way before. Go on, provide SOME proof here. All the text says was it was impossible for Bane to harm them as he's trying to answer pure dark side energy with...dark side energy.


answer: throwing up a barrier made of pure light side energy will not work why exactly?




Show me one instance where Bane thinks he can't defend against it. He says he can't harm them.
Defending isn't harming.

sorry.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You:That you claimed you already said you were incorrect. You didn't. Moving on.
Me: *Cites page 3*. Now kindly drop it
Definitely full of shit there LS. I'll kindly drop it when you stop lying, and the claim that my "quotes" are inaccurate. I don't know why you would do that when anybody can follow this thread and look at the quotes.




You missed "through the dark side he had near infinite powers". Furthermore, this has nothing to do with your posts about him inhabiting Sera's body.

No, you haven't. Quit stalling.






The humor is all on this side of the text.




What is "unsupported".





Gotta love it. When you're losing an argument, you get to choose what constitutes as evidence. Well sorry LS, from the various contradictions and lies you've posted and then denied, I'm going to have to go ahead and not rely on your "trust me" attitude.





I don't see anybody but you arguing your assertions.




Except he's continually shown his proficiency in defense.


Prove it. I can just as easily say that he doesn't believe that he can block these attacks and the only logical thing to do is to try and get to Zannah before the attacks take him down. At least mine is more plausible.



Why would he have to? Prove they're blockable.




And yet again, you're playing semantics as a last resort. Bane is a master of the force. If he didn't block something it's because he realized he can't. Your explanation isn't nearly as plausible as mine.



You're making my case for me LS, and you're doing a great job of it. Bane is a master of the sith sorcery he learned in terms of knowledge. He doesn't throw up a force shield because he knows it's ineffective. Thanks.



It doesn't matter why. All evidence points to the opposite of what you're saying.





Show you something where someone ISNT doing. Let me guess, you want the exact text to match what you want to see? Concede already, you've lost this one and it's just getting ridiculous now. You're getting too predictable now. On the losing end, you want an exact source of the exact text that you want, or you're not satisfied. All of the evidence in the book points to my assertions. Unless you can back yours up, concede and move on.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Definitely full of shit there LS. I'll kindly drop it when you stop lying, and the claim that my "quotes" are inaccurate. I don't know why you would do that when anybody can follow this thread and look at the quotes.
Yes, they can. I said I had said I was incorrect. You called me a liar. I cite page 3. End of it



The full quote: 'but it was power that came with a terrible cost. The unquenchable fire of the dark side was consuming, devouring him bit by bit. After decades of focusing and channeling its power, his body was beginning to break down."
Come on, DS, don't even try to claim Bane is at a physical peak.



Stalling WHAT exactly?





That it's indefensible




I cited the book. I cited the exact scene. Am I supposed to buy it because you don't think that being given a sourcing to about...two pages is insufficient? Really?
DS, seriously, the fight with Sarro lasts all of two-three pages. Me giving you that should not be insufficient





Well, I'm not claiming otherwise




Citations here


How so? There are a myriad of reasons why he might not have thrown up the shield.
"They were made of pure dark side energy and there was no way he could harm them."
There is nothing about "could not defend."



Okay, again, look at it this way:
1. When has energy ever been unblockable, DS?
2. At no point are they said to be unblockable. At no point does Bane intend to block. He dodges them just fine until he's distracted with killing her




Ultimatum: Prove it.



Except this isn't something he's ever seen or heard of. The point is Bane is not ignorant of Sith sorcery.




WHAT evidence exactly? The only evidence is:
a. How every other technique has worked before which is kind of going against this
b. Bane being unable to damage them





You're right, this is ridiculous
Show me where it's said they're unblockable or just drop it, because Bane's alternate strategy was working fine until he got too caught up with Zannah.

And yes, I want something exactly showing what you're saying. Your'e making the claim here, so proof they'd shred through pure force energy.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes, they can. I said I had said I was incorrect. You called me a liar. I cite page 3. End of it
Ok, fair enough.




Grasping at straws yet AGAIN. Where did I claim that Bane was at his physical peak? However, you have switched your argument concerning Serra several times, and the point still remains that it has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.




Would you like for me to quote the hundreds of arguments you've asking for specific page numbers to sources? I would suggest that you not pull this double standards nonsense.



It doesn't have to be said. The logical thing would be to put up a force shield so Zannah couldn't harm him. The only logical reason he didn't put one up was because he knew the shield wouldn't work, so he tried to kill her before she could harm him any further.




Different kinds of energy, different force abilities, nor have we seen a force shield put up against any sith spells. At the same time, when has someone been able to block an ability with which he has no experience?

At no point are they said to be blockable. Bane doesn't get "distracted". Bane has no problem putting up a force shield to stop an offensive attack, as we have seen time and time again. But this time Bane didn't put one up because he must he realized that it wouldn't work. The tendrils took his arm off, and his lightsaber did nothing. Bane's only recourse was to kill Zannah quickly. And once again, "there are techniques in the force for which there is no defense". Although I would argue that a defense here would be either a good offense, or overpower Zannah with light side battle meditation.





My assertion follows a more logical pattern, yours doesn't. Go ahead and prove yours.




Yet he's completely ignorant of advanced sith sorcery.





What evidence? How about him always throwing up a force shield against an offensive attack. And for the first time, he didn't throw one up. Bane is a master of the force, once again. When he decides not to throw up an attack, it's not that he's "distracted". Bane hardly, if ever, gets distracted. It's that he either suspects or knows that his force shield is irrelevant against this kind of attack and the best defense is a good offense.






Show me where it said they're blockable or just drop it. See? We can do this all day, yet at the end of the day, my assertion follows the book and common sense, yours doesn't.


Again, this is ridiculous and you only ask for something that doesn't exist as a last resort. There is NO proof that they are blockable by someone unknowledgeable in sith sorcery. ALL of the evidence points towards my assertion, NOT yours. YOU have to prove the inconsistencies of the book or YOU have to concede.

While the outcome of this argument is no longer in doubt, I did miss a line from the book which pretty much confirmed that Bane was powerless against Zannah's attack, including blocking it.


If he thought he could defend against this, he would have done so, and let Zannah wear herself out. Since he thought his only outcome is to kill her, it's reasonable and pretty obvious to assume that a force shield would have done nothing.

Just finished the book. So I thought i'd bring this back. She would beat Bane but not Caedus.

Oh and Beefy is right. He tries blocking them with the Force and cutting them with his saber to no avail. So destroying the souurce was his last chance. Which failed. Dismally.

Caedus>Bane?

Wtf? Since when?

Bane would crush Caedus...

Well, maybe not that easily, but still. Caedus is hardly impressive.

...que?

bane would definitly beat caedus.

Let's be perfectly clear about one thing. We have not seen any kind of defense in the SW mythos that would work against what Zannah did with her dark side tendrils. Good offense appears to be the only real way to defeat her. Kill her before she can unleash them. Now Bane couldn't defeat her in a lightsaber battle, so what chance does Caedus have, unless he is better than Bane.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Let's be perfectly clear about one thing. We have not seen any kind of defense in the SW mythos that would work against what Zannah did with her dark side tendrils. Good offense appears to be the only real way to defeat her. Kill her before she can unleash them. Now Bane couldn't defeat her in a lightsaber battle, so what chance does Caedus have, unless he is better than Bane.

he's not better than Bane. problem is, Zannah has to get enough space to get the attack off. She can't just do it in the middle of combat. So Caedus wouldn't have to beat her all that quickly, just keep her engaged, wear her out like Bane was trying to do.

It could happen. But Caedus isn't better than Bane.

Originally posted by truejedi
bane would definitly beat caedus.
Nah... Bane would lose.

Nah he wouldn't.