Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Discuss.

Beyonder

Who are DC's brothers?

i think they are from the Marvel vs DC crossover..the one where Storm beat WW Marvel and DC is represent by the Brothers

Either Beyonder or Thanos solos for the ridiculous stomp.

Originally posted by Slaanesh

i think they are from the Marvel vs DC crossover..
the one where Storm beat WW
Yep, and where the LT & Spectre nearly obliterated both Brothers.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Either Beyonder or Thanos solos for the ridiculous stomp.


Yep, and where the LT & Spectre nearly obliterated both Brothers.
By obliterate you mean hang on to their weapons and look like specks of dust in comparison? The Brothers humiliated the LT and Spectre.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

By obliterate you mean hang on to their weapons and look like specks of dust in comparison? The Brothers humiliated the LT and Spectre.
I see you saw a pretty scan and never read the arc.

Sweet.

Push.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Either Beyonder or Thanos solos for the ridiculous stomp.


Yep, and where the LT & Spectre nearly obliterated both Brothers.

I don't remember that at all. I mean it's been years since I read those issues but other than the amalgalms being lt and spectre trying to save their respective universes?

Time to go huntin for old issues. :-)

Originally posted by Omega Vision
By obliterate you mean hang on to their weapons and look like specks of dust in comparison? The Brothers humiliated the LT and Spectre.

Oh boy, you really walked into that one.

Originally posted by rotiart

I don't remember that at all. I mean it's been years since I read those issues but other than the amalgalms being lt and spectre trying to save their respective universes?
Yea, the LT & Spectre merged the Brothers by force, (literally)
the Brothers "were not happy" nut meh, there was nothing they could do,
this merger nearly obliterated both Brothers,
so, had Access not helped the LT & Spectre separate them properly,
they would've collapsed on each other.

Later in the mini, the LT & Spectre are depicted beneath the Brothers,
but that was after the LT & Spectre nearly cracked the Brothers inadvertently.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea, the LT & Spectre merged the Brothers by force, (literally)
the Brothers "were not happy" nut meh, there was nothing they could do,
this merger nearly obliterated both Brothers,
so, had Access not helped the LT & Spectre separate them properly,
they would've collapsed on each other.

Later in the mini, the LT & Spectre are depicted beneath the Brothers,
but that was after the LT & Spectre nearly cracked the Brothers inadvertently.
If anything the contradiction just highlights how poorly written that crossover was.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If anything the contradiction just highlights how poorly written that crossover was.

pretty much

I can't find my issues. :-(

Stalemate.

Without PIS involved Brother DC and Brother Marvel was the embodiment of all imo beyond any character ever conceived by both companies. That was imop the intention of the writers and how they wanted them depicted, the whole merging bullshit was just some PIS crap to keep the story going and to band the heroes together...

IMO they are at the very top of the food chain.. above TOAA, Primal Monitor, Presence, Beyonder, whatever...


the 2 brothers would destropy eachother...

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If anything the contradiction just highlights how poorly written that crossover was.

As a kid I really enjoyed it but what do you expect it was a popularity contest

Wolverine was beating Lobo

Spider-man defeated Superboy

Venom was beating Spider-man & Supes at the same time till Access arrived to save their asses etc.

But in a way it was entertaining IMO and I really liked a few of the later amalgams like Darkclaw

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea, the LT & Spectre merged the Brothers by force, (literally)
the Brothers "were not happy" nut meh, there was nothing they could do,
this merger nearly obliterated both Brothers,
so, had Access not helped the LT & Spectre separate them properly,
they would've collapsed on each other.

Later in the mini, the LT & Spectre are depicted beneath the Brothers,
but that was after the LT & Spectre nearly cracked the Brothers inadvertently.

I'd like to know where you interpreted that. I reread the main issues and i can't find a reference to what you mentioned... at all..

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea, the LT & Spectre merged the Brothers by force, (literally)
the Brothers "were not happy" nut meh, there was nothing they could do,
this merger nearly obliterated both Brothers,
so, had Access not helped the LT & Spectre separate them properly,
they would've collapsed on each other.

Later in the mini, the LT & Spectre are depicted beneath the Brothers,
but that was after the LT & Spectre nearly cracked the Brothers inadvertently.
It seemed more like the Spectre and the LT pulled the wool over each brother's eyes. Let's not forget that for trillions of years, the brothers didn't even know they were. So it would be easy to trick them or use vast power for some last ditch effort. It was the brother's own power that nearly obliterated them. They couldn't blend. It had nothing to do with Spectre or LT's power.

Originally posted by rotiart

I'd like to know where you interpreted that. I reread the main issues and i can't find a reference to what you mentioned... at all..
I'll post the relevant scans when I have a chance good friend.

This has been debated and concluded in prior threads,
I'll try and find the thread, to save myself from having to post the scans again.

Originally posted by Zeuodin

It seemed more like the Spectre and the LT pulled the wool over each brother's eyes. Let's not forget that for trillions of years, the brothers didn't even know they were. So it would be easy to trick them or use vast power for some last ditch effort.
This is unsupported speculation concerning what the LT & Spectre did.

Simply put, to save both Realities,
the LT & Spectre merged the Brothers "by force" (literally stated)
this nearly obliterated the Brothers.

Simple.
Originally posted by Zeuodin

It was the brother's own power that nearly obliterated them.
They couldn't blend.

It had nothing to do with Spectre or LT's power.
It's true, they couldn't blend,
but you're wrong, because it had everything to do with LT & Spectre,
since it was the LT & Spectre that merged them by force.

Also literally stated, "the Brothers were not happy"
but could do nothing about the merger.

Access, using a shard of the Brothers,
helped the LT & Spectre separate them without destroying them.

Simple.

Originally posted by Lord Feron

IMO they are at the very top of the food chain..

above TOAA,

Primal Monitor, Presence, Beyonder, whatever...


Let me know when the LT can ever affect TOAA in any way shape or form.

Especially when the LT and/or Brother Marvel
is nothing more than an image made of ink on paper to TOAA.
(and yes, this is literally what it is even in the fictional pages of Marvel comics)

I think this would be an infinite stalemate imo.

But the whole arc was so stupid, I would avoid using the brothers in any thread.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is unsupported speculation concerning what the LT & Spectre did.

Simply put, to save both Realities,
the LT & Spectre merged the Brothers "by force" (literally stated)
this nearly obliterated the Brothers.

Simple.

It's true, they couldn't blend,
but you're wrong, because it had everything to do with LT & Spectre,
since it was the LT & Spectre that merged them by force.

Also literally stated, "the Brothers were not happy"
but could do nothing about the merger.

Access, using a shard of the Brothers,
helped the LT & Spectre separate them without destroying them.

Simple.
The fact remains the Brothers were>LT and Spectre power wise. Using their OWN power against them to almost destroy them isn't the same as overpowering. The LT and Spectre pulled a neat trick to be sure but they were still flies compared to the Brothers.

I'm fairly certain the comic refers to spectre and that despite all the power he had ever been given... The brothers dwarfed anything he ever had

i saw a scan of the lt holding then in his palm or some shit

meh, crossover crap

That's why I say it was retconned

Originally posted by rotiart
That's why I say it was retconned

I've seen this mentioned before...

When exactly were the Brothers retconned?

Originally posted by theICONiac
I've seen this mentioned before...

When exactly were the Brothers retconned? "adventures of the x-men" #12.

here's the particular page from that issue in which the brothers were momentarily depicted, and subsequently retconned:
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8104/85977874.jpg

there's also an OHOTMU entry floating around somewhere.


but before that, it's my opinion that the brothers were portrayed as the supreme beings of their respective 'dimensions'

Originally posted by Galan007
"adventures of the x-men" #12.

here's the particular page from that issue in which the brothers were momentarily depicted, and subsequently retconned:
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8104/85977874.jpg

there's also an OHOTMU entry floating around somewhere.


but before that, it's my opinion that the brothers were portrayed as the supreme beings of their respective 'dimensions'

Thank you Galan.

And I also believe they were originally portrayed as 'the' supreme beings of their comic book companies.

And as such I find myself disagreeing with Mr. Master on their power levels vs LT/Spectre. Sure, LT/Spectre merged them, but only because they were 'powerless' to stop them from fighting and obliterating themselves.

Originally posted by Galan007
"adventures of the x-men" #12.

here's the particular page from that issue in which the brothers were momentarily depicted, and subsequently retconned:
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8104/85977874.jpg

there's also an OHOTMU entry floating around somewhere.


but before that, it's my opinion that the brothers were portrayed as the supreme beings of their respective 'dimensions'

Originally posted by Galan007
but before that, it's my opinion that the brothers were portrayed as the supreme beings of their respective 'dimensions'
It was even confirmed in the DC vs. Marvel Preview (1995)--which informed about the votes--that the brothers were to represent agents of the companies.

So I agree with you there, on the other hand I do agree with Mr Master that they were poorly portrayed as such.

those two were only "supreme" for those 4 or so issues, after that status quo was reestablished

Originally posted by Omega Vision

The fact remains the Brothers were>LT and Spectre power wise. Using their OWN power against them to almost destroy them isn't the same as overpowering.
"The fact remains" ... ???

What comic are you talking about?

Because never ever was it stated or even alluded
that the LT and/or Spectre used anything but their own power
to merge the Brothers by Force.

Please friend, read the comic first, then post "facts" ...
Originally posted by Omega Vision

The LT and Spectre pulled a neat trick to be sure
but they were still flies compared to the Brothers.
"flies" ... that nearly obliterated both Brothers.


Bottomline:

TOAA is the true Surpeme Being of Marvel Comics,
and an infinite # of LTs and/or Spectres
could never affect TOAA in any way, shape of form.

The Brothers were a product of garbage writing,
which ignored continuity/historical facts/ and Marvel's cosmological make-up.

Access is a shard of the brothers..
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/MarvelvsDC02_15.jpg

Their respective cosmic guardians are spectre and lt... The death of either brother is the death of the respective universe...
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/MarvelvsDC02_13.jpg

It took everything they cosmic guardians had to resist the destruction of one of the universes... their last ditch effort
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-03.jpg
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-04.jpg

Access gives lt and spectre the power of the shards of the brothers to help restore the universes
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-08.jpg

Even the Living Tribunal realizes he has only delayed the inevitable.
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-17.jpg

Power is unleashed that neither has ever witnessed... considering those witnesses are lt and spectre... that says a lot..
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-18_19.jpg

All they can understand is that the brothers represent reality and/or unreality.
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-27.jpg

The brothers, they who represent all of reality
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-35.jpg

Originally posted by rotiart
Access is a shard of the brothers..
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/MarvelvsDC02_15.jpg

Their respective cosmic guardians are spectre and lt... The death of either brother is the death of the respective universe...
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/MarvelvsDC02_13.jpg

It took everything they cosmic guardians had to resist the destruction of one of the universes... their last ditch effort
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-03.jpg
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-04.jpg

Access gives lt and spectre the power of the shards of the brothers to help restore the universes
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-08.jpg

Even the Living Tribunal realizes he has only delayed the inevitable.
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-17.jpg

Power is unleashed that neither has ever witnessed... considering those witnesses are lt and spectre... that says a lot..
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-18_19.jpg

All they can understand is that the brothers represent reality and/or unreality.
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-27.jpg

The brothers, they who represent all of reality
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-35.jpg

Originally posted by rotiart

Access is a shard of the brothers..
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/MarvelvsDC02_15.jpg

Their respective cosmic guardians are spectre and lt... The death of either brother is the death of the respective universe...
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/MarvelvsDC02_13.jpg

It took everything they cosmic guardians had to resist the destruction of one of the universes... their last ditch effort
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-03.jpg
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-04.jpg

Access gives lt and spectre the power of the shards of the brothers to help restore the universes
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-08.jpg

Even the Living Tribunal realizes he has only delayed the inevitable.
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-17.jpg

Power is unleashed that neither has ever witnessed... considering those witnesses are lt and spectre... that says a lot..
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-18_19.jpg

All they can understand is that the brothers represent reality and/or unreality.
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-27.jpg

The brothers, they who represent all of reality
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/Marvel%20Vs%20DC%20Brothers/DC_vs_Marvel-04-35.jpg
O ... k ... but ... ?

I lova ya friend,
but (#1) is this supposed to take away from the fact
that the LT & Spectre nearly obliterated both Brothers by merging them?

Or (#2) are ya just posting scans to update the onlookers on part of the story?

If so, (concerning #2) cool,
but if not,
this in no way takes away from said fact # 1.

And again, the LT & SPectre did what they did under their own power,
Access (being a shard of the Brothers)
only helped the LT & Spectre separate the Brothers without destroying them.

But I already stated this in prior posts in this very same thread.

As for the Brothers representing "all reality"
meh, Eternity/Infinity represent "all reality" as well, so ...
and the Alien Entity merged with the past/present & future
of all reality that has ever been or will be.
Oh, and Sise-Neg became the power behind "all reality"
Oh, and Entropy became "all reality" by replacing/becoming Eternity.
Oh, and Thanos/THOTI absorbed and re-created "all reality"
Oh, and Wanda tore down "all reality" and rebuilt it with a single phrase.
Oh, and the IG defeated he who represents "all reality"
Oh, and the LT spins in one hand the destiny of "all reality"

... should I go on?

I respect you much too friend but just I can't find any reference to what you were saying about lt an spectre having the power in their own to even affect the brothers

that spectre who has the power if the word etc had never sen power like the brothers before....

Just so my opinion is that the broters represented marvel and dc multiverses separately... And that it was later retconned... I provided the scans to back up what i was saying...

In any case the fight goes omnip vs omnip vs omnip therefore tie

Originally posted by rotiart

I respect you much too friend but just I can't find any reference to what you were saying about lt an spectre having the power in their own to even affect the brothers
I still haven't been home, so until then I can't post the relevant scans,
but, it was LT & Spectre that merged the Brothers (fact)
the merger was going to destroy both Universes (fact)

Now ... why were the Brothers going to be obliterated?

Because of the merger.

Who merged the Brothers?

The LT & Spectre.

Is it mentioned anywhere in the series
that the LT & Spectre used the Brother's power or any amount of it
to accomplish this total manipulation? (merging the Brothers)

No.

So, without unsupported speculation flying around,
we must conclude that the LT & Spectre used their own power.
Originally posted by rotiart

that spectre who has the power if the word etc had never sen power like the brothers before....
I told ya the story was garbage, full of contradictions and unreasonable twists.
Originally posted by rotiart

Just so my opinion is that the broters represented marvel and dc multiverses separately... And that it was later retconned... I provided the scans to back up what i was saying...
Funny thing is, at the very beginning of the story,
only one Multiverse was created from both Brothers,
which is more nonsense since Marvel & DC are two separate Multiverses.
Originally posted by rotiart

In any case the fight goes omnip vs omnip vs omnip therefore tie
Imo, Thanos & Beyonder can solo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I still haven't been home, so until then I can't post the relevant scans,
but, it was LT & Spectre that merged the Brothers (fact)
the merger was going to destroy both Universes (fact)

Now ... why were the Brothers going to be obliterated?

Because of the merger.

Who merged the Brothers?

The LT & Spectre.

Is it mentioned anywhere in the series
that the LT & Spectre used the Brother's power or any amount of it
to accomplish this total manipulation? (merging the Brothers)

No.

So, without unsupported speculation flying around,
we must conclude that the LT & Spectre used their own power.

I told ya the story was garbage, full of contradictions and unreasonable twists.

Funny thing is, at the very beginning of the story,
only one Multiverse was created from both Brothers,
which is more nonsense since Marvel & DC are two separate Multiverses.

Imo, Thanos & Beyonder can solo.

The brothers decided to pit each of their universes against the other
the winning universe would survive... the losing universe would be destroyed
it never said that a brother would be destroyed... it was even revealed that what was originally thought to have been the merging of the brothers.... was in fact not a merging at all... but the merging of their universes.

That the respective guardians of each universe were lt and spectre...
in their last ditch effort to save the the losing universe... lt and spectre combined their powers and created a amalgalm... since only one universe was supposed to exist the losing was combined with the winning...... universe by accident..

access then gave the lt and spectre the shards of the brothers so they could restore their original universes.. but even with the shards all they could do was create one universe with each person in it... but separate people..

Both brothers attacked this universe... then access appears... and the brothers reconcile.

I've reread the entire series now 2 times. I cannot find any instance where it says the efforts were doing to destroy a brother...

please post the necessary scans my friend, because i really think you are interpreting the whole thing wrong.