Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Teams: 2 debators using 3 characters per fight

Power Limit - High herald level

Prep - 5 minutes prior to each fight in a well stocked lounge adjacent to the battle field. No extending of that prep time via artificial means (ie speed force or time manipulation).

Equipment - Characters are allowed to carry only what they normally have in their possession. For example a Green Lantern get his/her ring but Reed Richards can't go back to his lab for the ultimate nullifer or anything else.

Special restrictions:

- Power Duplication: Banned
- Power copying: Banned
- Constructs/Summoning: No summoning and only constructs similar to a Green Lantern's are allowable.
- Time Manipulation: Banned
- Matter Manipulation: Banned on opponents and environment-large scale (ie no turning the entire planet into swiss cheese) otherwise allowed
Reality Manipulation - Banned
- Speed Force: Banned as a method for stealing speed or extending prep time, otherwise speed force characters are allowed
- Information Retention: Fighters start with blank memories at the start of each fight (ie they don't remember past fights)
- Meshing Limit: Power amping is allowed as long as it does not put a character above the Herald limit and can be accomplished once the fight starts or in prep time
- Do feats by the character count if they are in comics that come out after drafts? Yes, as long as they are consistent with the characters' other showings
- Magic users are allowed, so long as they obey the rest of the limits
- No immortality or physically indestrucible characters and no charcters able to continiously transfer their consciousness to an endless number of bodies - one death = out of the fight.

- Additional limits may be placed as new issues come up. If you are uncertain about any character/tactic please feel free to pm Batdude or myself about it before you use it.



Drafting:
Each round will last a few days, so don't worry if you aren't first (there are plenty of characters to go around).
Characters will be drafted one per round on a first come first served basis. To draft a character please include your name and that of your partner, the character's name, and a link to a current bio.


Failure to include all information will result in you not securing the character and the possibility that someone else may take him/her.

Good sites for Bios
DC:
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Marvel:
http://marvel.wikia.com/Main_Page
both:
http://www.wikipedia.org/
http://www.comicvine.com/

team psycho charlotte hereby drafteth sir kyle rayner of earth.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Lantern_(Kyle_Rayner)

http://starlockforfreedom.bravepages.com/kmcsigsandavs/idtest2send.jpg

Genis-Vell (Photon)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t366948.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genis-Vell

darthgoober/Blair Wind draft...


Silver Surfer
http://marvel.com/universe/Silver_Surfer

Characters will be drafted one per round on a first come first served basis. To draft a character please include your name and that of your partner, the character's name, and a link to a current bio.

Team Omega/Zeuodin Draft

Flash Wally West

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_West

Team JaketheBank w/tba partner Draft

Thor: http://marvel.wikia.com/Thor_(Thor_Odinson)

Originally posted by id369
http://starlockforfreedom.bravepages.com/kmcsigsandavs/idtest2send.jpg

Genis-Vell (Photon)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t366948.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genis-Vell

After some discussion we've decided not to allow Genis-Vell into the tournament due to concern that he may exceed the limit. Sorry.

http://starlockforfreedom.bravepages.com/kmcsigsandavs/idtest2send.jpg
Dr. Strange
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Strange

Originally posted by id369
http://starlockforfreedom.bravepages.com/kmcsigsandavs/idtest2send.jpg
Dr. Strange
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Strange



Good joke.

Originally posted by batdude123


Good joke. We thought he is a permissible character, since Marvel has de-powered him.

Can we draft him, or will he be kicked off the list along with Genis-Vell?

http://starlockforfreedom.bravepages.com/kmcsigsandavs/idtest2send.jpg
Rachel Summers (Phoenix II)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Summers

Originally posted by id369
We thought he is a permissible character, since Marvel has de-powered him.

Can we draft him, or will he be kicked off the list along with Genis-Vell?

I'll make you a deal.

If you use feats for him from the time he was considered "depowered" to now, I'll allow him.

Originally posted by batdude123
I'll make you a deal.

If you use feats for him from the time he was considered "depowered" to now, I'll allow him.

Fine with me too. Good luck with that

Didn't Rachel as the Phoenix beat Galactus?

There's no way I'm allowing her.

Originally posted by batdude123
Didn't Rachel as the Phoenix beat Galactus?

There's no way I'm allowing her.

Please reconsider knowing the following.

He was weak at that particular moment, hence the need for preparing himself to feed. All High Tier characters, are prone to extreme highs and lows. Especially those in the Herald Class. Rachael beating a hungry Galactus is one of her extreme High Feats.

Originally posted by id369
Please reconsider knowing the following.

He was weak at that particular moment, hence the need for preparing himself to feed. All High Tier characters, are prone to extreme highs and lows. Especially those in the Herald Class. Rachael beating a hungry Galactus is won of her extreme High Feats.

Sorry, but any Phoenix Force user is well above the Herald limit

Originally posted by TheKahn
Sorry, but any Phoenix Force user is well above the Herald limit

She is officially ranked as Mid - Herald.

Man, the drafts have barely just started and we've already got a team that's pushing the "no loopholes" rule.

I'm sorry, but I can't allow Rachel with the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by batdude123
Man, the drafts have barely just started and we've already got a team that's pushing the "no loopholes" rule.


Can't really blame them though....I'd do the same thing

Originally posted by batdude123
Man, the drafts have barely just started and we've already got a team that's pushing the "no loopholes" rule.

I'm sorry, but I can't allow Rachel with the Phoenix Force. well, its better that any loophole exploits gets cleared before the tourney actually starts than after

and you just know certain teams prob already have certain exploits prepared in their battleplans ready to unleash at the right moment

also, didn't Thor also defeat Galactus?

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, its better that any loophole exploits gets cleared before the tourney actually starts than after

and you just know certain teams prob already have certain exploits prepared in their battleplans ready to unleash at the right moment

also, didn't Thor also defeat Galactus?

Thor =\= Phoenix Force


Technically Aunt May and Jarvis could beat Galactus if he was weakened enough. That feat really isn't the problem - its the damn near omnipotent PF.

Thor also beat Phoenix II, I guess he is banned as well.

Can Genis-Vell be negotiated? He is the pillar that supports our team.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Thor =\= Phoenix Force


Technically Aunt May and Jarvis could beat Galactus if he was weakened enough. That feat really isn't the problem - its the damn near omnipotent PF. but he didn't use a weak attack...he used his godblast. an attack that damaged a celestial, and drove away galactus. an attack that he can use at will. an attack, that seems to be above herald power.

Originally posted by id369
Thor also beat Phoenix II, I guess he is banned as well.

Can Genis-Vell be negotiated? He is the pillar that supports our team.

In this situation, I'd say we need a majority vote with the judges giving their opinion on the matter.

Team Twig & Berries (Me and Validus) draft Superman.

Originally posted by batdude123
In this situation, I'd say we need a majority vote with the judges giving their opinion on the matter.

I would like that, can I make a separate topic with a poll?

Originally posted by Starscream M
but he didn't use a weak attack...he used his godblast. an attack that damaged a celestial, and drove away galactus. an attack that he can use at will. an attack, that seems to be above herald power.

Which means that its up to the judges to decide if that particular tactic is allowable under the rules (assuming the team using him tries to make use of it during a fight). A lot of these characters are going to have high-end feats that might push the envelope, we just have to deal with them as best we can when they come up.

Originally posted by batdude123
In this situation, I'd say we need a majority vote with the judges giving their opinion on the matter.

I vote yes provided that no feats are used from his "insane" period and any of his abilities used fall within the acceptable limits listed.

What are these so impressive feats, that happened in his insane era?

Originally posted by Ha_Son
Team Twig & Berries (Me and Validus) draft Superman.

Duly noted.

Forget it. I will talk to King Kandy over the draft.

In the mean time, I would like to draft Tangent Superman.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t453166.html

Originally posted by TheKahn
Which means that its up to the judges to decide if that particular tactic is allowable under the rules (assuming the team using him tries to make use of it during a fight). A lot of these characters are going to have high-end feats that might push the envelope, we just have to deal with them as best we can when they come up.
I'm just trying to get at the reasoning for not allowing for example genis or rachel.

if the reasoning is that certain of their powers exceed herald level, than the same could be said for many of the characters drafted.

since genis or rachel on the average are not necessarily more powerful than thor or surfer.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm just trying to get at the reasoning for not allowing for example genis or rachel.

if the reasoning is that certain of their powers exceed herald level, than the same could be said for many of the characters drafted.

since genis or rachel on the average are not necessarily more powerful than thor or surfer. Thank You. facepalm

Originally posted by batdude123
Didn't Rachel as the Phoenix beat Galactus?

There's no way I'm allowing her.
I'm pretty sure that was an "alternate reality" Rachel so if she's barred it shouldn't be because of that.

From what I understand 616 Rachel doesn't really have any insane feats to her credit(and has lost to both Thor and Quasar) so as long as they plan on using feats of her's rather than feats of the "Phoenix Force" there really shouldn't be a problem IMO. I mean I'm not fighting for her to be allowed because her being a vessel for the PF DOES have a lot of potential for abuse and I know that you guys are wary of loopholes, but to me she just doesn't seem all that uber.

...Of course if I've heard wrong and it turns out that it was 616 Rachel who beat G and/or she has a bunch of uber feats then I'm wholeheartedly against her.

The majority of Genis' feats are above herald level, but that's not the case with Rachel. After all, we can't ban every single character with feat above their level. That would nullify the entire roster so far.

Rachel is being reconsidered. Our main concern is just trying to keep things on a somewhat even playing field for all involved. Please just be patient while we try and figure this out.

While you do that, I'll draft Loki.

Team: Kris Blaze/???

Loki at Marvel.wikia

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
While you do that, I'll draft Loki.

Team: Kris Blaze/???

Loki at Marvel.wikia you should get rage or naija to team up

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
While you do that, I'll draft Loki.

Team: Kris Blaze/???

Loki at Marvel.wikia

Originally posted by Starscream M
you should get rage or naija to team up
Rage has his hands full with his upcoming Thor Respect thread. I need a loser like Steve, with incredible amounts of spare time. Not someone who's got their plate full with school and stuff

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Rage has his hands full with his upcoming Thor Respect thread. I need a loser like Steve, with incredible amounts of spare time. Not someone who's got their plate full with school and stuff actually rage and naija wouldn't be good partners for you because your knowledge base seems to overlap, you should get someone knowledgeable about DC on your side

I would like to argue Genis should be allowed. IMO, there is absolutely nothing that would make him more than a high-end herald. Even if you take him from his "insane" era, he does very little that SS couldn't do, and even those few times were just a result of some powers he has that SS doesn't. He was never shown to have the sort of raw power that makes him a threat to this tournament. I'm a bit bothered that he was automatically banned, without me even getting a chance to argue my case here.

I was thinking of Insane Genis btw, not regular.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I was thinking of Insane Genis btw, not regular.
That's pretty interesting since iirc you argued in the tier thread that there was no way he should be bumped to trans.

I think even if you do use his insane feats, there's nothing concrete pointing to him being above herald. He has no feats a character like SS couldn't have accomplished.

This is why I said we need to bring in the judges to help with the call.

Majority vote will decide the Genis matter.

I'd like to know why he was considered an issue in the first place? What exactly is it about him that makes a vote called for? Just because people have the "conception" that he's above herald?

Originally posted by batdude123
This is why I said we need to bring in the judges to help with the call.

Majority vote will decide the Genis matter. I don't think that's necessary.

King Kandy has made a pretty strong statement: that there's NOTHING genis did that Surfer couldn't replicate.

Is this true?

If the answer is yes, that I think he should be allowed as why else would surfer be allowed but someone of equal ability be barred.

If the answer is no, then it would provide reason not to allow him.

So can anyone point to something that Genis has done that Surfer could not? that would settle the matter imho

UPDATE: Me and Kris Blaze will be teaming up together for the Tourny, and our pick will be my original pick, which was Thor.

Team Kris Blaze/JaketheBank:

Thor: http://marvel.wikia.com/Thor_(Thor_Odinson)

I'm not an expert on Genis by any means, but his feats like beating King Thor, Magus, and Thanatos that worry me.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I'm not an expert on Genis by any means, but his feats like beating King Thor, Magus, and Thanatos that worry me.
He did not beat King Thor.

Not ****ing close

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
UPDATE: Me and Kris Blaze will be teaming up together for the Tourny, and our pick will be my original pick, which was Thor.

Team Kris Blaze/JaketheBank:

Thor: http://marvel.wikia.com/Thor_(Thor_Odinson) how apropos

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
He did not beat King Thor.

Not ****ing close

Just going by his respect thread. So is there any objection from the other participants about them using Genis?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
UPDATE: Me and Kris Blaze will be teaming up together for the Tourny, and our pick will be my original pick, which was Thor.

Team Kris Blaze/JaketheBank:

Thor: http://marvel.wikia.com/Thor_(Thor_Odinson)

Loki is now available to anyone.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Just going by his respect thread. So is there any objection from the other participants about them using Genis?
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4794/captainmarveliv07p207lr.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1026/captainmarveliv07p219nk.jpg
This is not beating King Thor buddy.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I'm not an expert on Genis by any means, but his feats like beating King Thor, Magus, and Thanatos that worry me.
King Thor: All that happened, was that King Thor hit him with mjolnir once, and then the fight stopped because Sturm and Drang showed up.

Magus: That magus was just a wraith at the time, far from full power... and for most of the fight, he was kicking Genis's ass anyway. What happened is that when Magus tried to absorb him, apparently his c. awareness made him draw power from the universe itself again... note that in fact this didn't even hurt magus, as in the last page of the issue it's shown it actually completed his ressurection.

Thanatos: I'll admit, I never read this one, but it happened pre-insane so I doubt it was that impressive since pre-insane genis most don't even think is close to SS.

Ok, we're discussing/reconsidering Genis right now. We should have an answer directly.

An answer from who?

I'm a bit concerned that a character is being banned, when there has been absolutely no case against him brought up.

Originally posted by King Kandy
An answer from who?

I'm a bit concerned that a character is being banned, when there has been absolutely no case against him brought up.

The judges/hosts are discussing it. The original reason reason that he was banned was that we felt he exceeded the limit based in part on past debates on KMC and his more widely known feats. However, since there was some disagreement on the character, we are more than happy to hear the arguments in his favor and reconsider the decision. We are honestly trying to be as fair as we possibly can for all involved.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The judges/hosts are discussing it. The original reason reason that he was banned was that we felt he exceeded the limit based in part on past debates on KMC and his more widely known feats. However, since there was some disagreement on the character, we are more than happy to hear the arguments in his favor and reconsider the decision. We are honestly trying to be as fair as we possibly can for all involved.
I can't really offer any arguments for why he shouldn't be banned (that would be proving a negative), but if I heard the reason's why he's considered too strong i'm sure I could refute them.

All I see so far is that people have this perception that he's really tough, but when it comes to actually finding specific feats, they come up short.

Ok, we've reached a decision. Given the arguments in his favor by both the team that wanted him and even their competitors, we are going to allow Genis-Vell provided he follows the same power limits as everyone else.

Given that King Kandy and Id369 were kind of screwed over in having to reveal their pick early, we are going to hold Genis-Vell for them in the second round. If they do no draft him then, he will become available for anyone else.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Ok, we've reached a decision. Given the arguments in his favor by both the team that wanted him and even their competitors, we are going to allow Genis-Vell provided he follows the same power limits as everyone else.

Given that King Kandy and Id369 were kind of screwed over in having to reveal their pick early, we are going to hold Genis-Vell for them in the second round. If they do no draft him then, he will become available for anyone else.
Thanks. I much appreciate that.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Ok, we've reached a decision. Given the arguments in his favor by both the team that wanted him and even their competitors, we are going to allow Genis-Vell provided he follows the same power limits as everyone else.

Given that King Kandy and Id369 were kind of screwed over in having to reveal their pick early, we are going to hold Genis-Vell for them in the second round. If they do no draft him then, he will become available for anyone else.
They actually said that he was the pillar that supported their team, so it seems more appropriate just to let them switch out rather than hold him for the next round.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Thanks. I much appreciate that.

No problem. Thanks to everyone for being patient and helping in the debate.

Originally posted by darthgoober
They actually said that he was the pillar that supported their team, so it seems more appropriate just to let them switch out rather than hold him for the next round.

That's certainly a possibility if they don't want Tangent Superman. If they do want him, they still end up with both characters. But if they want to switch and let Tangent Superman go back into the pool, I'm fine with that.

Originally posted by TheKahn
That's certainly a possibility if they don't want Tangent Superman. If they do want him, they still end up with both characters. But if they want to switch and let Tangent Superman go back into the pool, I'm fine with that.
IDK about id, but i'm fine with keeping tangent and just reserving Photon. They're both excellent characters.

Originally posted by King Kandy
IDK about id, but i'm fine with keeping tangent and just reserving Photon. They're both excellent characters.

Just let us know one way or the other before the next round of drafting.

Also, please note that non-Phoenix Force Rachel Summers is available to be drafted.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Just let us know one way or the other before the next round of drafting.
Am I allowed to switch tangent for another character, but keep Genis reserved?

Don't push it. uhuh

Originally posted by King Kandy
Am I allowed to switch tangent for another character, but keep Genis reserved?

I don't think we can go that far. The main issue was that because of the bans being reversed, everyone got to see who you guys wanted on you team (Genis) and they might possibly steal him during the second round.
If you have a confidential character you'd rather have than Tangent Superman, then we'll go ahead and give you Genis and let you draft your mystery character in round 2.

Alright forget Tangent Superman. We are going with our original draft which is Genis-Vell.

Originally posted by id369
Alright forget Tangent Superman. We are going with our original draft which is Genis-Vell.

Ok, Genis-Vell is yours. Tangent Superman is back into the pool for everyone.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Am I allowed to switch tangent for another character, but keep Genis reserved? since when does indecisiveness get rewarded?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
since when does indecisiveness get rewarded?
jeez, I already was both turned down and finished my draft. Get over it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
jeez, I already was both turned down and finished my draft. Get over it.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
since when does indecisiveness get rewarded?

Save it for the ring, ya' bums! boxing

Originally posted by batdude123
Don't push it. uhuh
I feel like pushing my luck today.

Is there any way I can keep Loki for round 2 or summat?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I feel like pushing my luck today.

Is there any way I can keep Loki for round 2 or summat?

Be the first team to draft Loki next round, and he's all yours.

Originally posted by batdude123
Be the first team to draft Loki next round, and he's all yours.
You askin' to get raped ahah

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You askin' to get raped ahah

This ***** is officially kicked out.

Genis-Vell was in the process of getting bumped up in the tier thread until it got locked. He belongs in trans/Tier 4 and not HH.

He has feats to put him above HH.

Just food for thought....

Did everyone Pick for the first draft? When does the seond draft begin?

Originally posted by The Nuul


He has feats to put him above HH.

doesn't every one have certain feats that go beyond herald?

and be more specific...which feats of genis are you talking about?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Did everyone Pick for the first draft? When does the seond draft begin?

We' still waiting for to see if anymore teams enter the tourney. Well most likely wait until the weekend's over to move on to round two. Once we know everyone who is going to participate, rounds two and three should move much quicker.

Withdrawing Flash

Team Zeuodin/Omega

We Enter Zoom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_(comics)

(Before Depowered) for clarification.

oh brother...

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Withdrawing Flash

Team Zeuodin/Omega

We Enter Zoom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_(comics)

(Before Depowered) for clarification.

Ok, so noted, Wally West is moved into the pool.

zoom operates by manipulating his timestream.

fukkoutahere

Originally posted by psycho gundam
zoom operates by manipulating his timestream.

fukkoutahere

He's bound by the same rules as everyone else. He can use his time-based power to simulate superspeed, but not in other ways which are banned for everyone.

and wonder woman did hilariously kick his ass in like a page.......

do whatever you want

I'm not yet sure how I feel about allowing Zoom for this tourney.

The very nature of his powers is a direct rule violation.

Originally posted by batdude123
I'm not yet sure how I feel about allowing Zoom for this tourney.

The very nature of his powers is a direct rule violation.
mmm

You never were good with rules.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Withdrawing Flash

Team Zeuodin/Omega

We Enter Zoom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_(comics)

(Before Depowered) for clarification.

Sorry, but objections have been lodged against Zoom due to his time-based powers. We'll switch you back to Wally unless you want to switch back to someone else.

lmao

Speed Force?! Phoenix's?! Directors, do yourselves a favor and read through this:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8474873#post8474873
...and then do yourselves another big favor and ban everything on the loopholes list. I absolutely guarantee you'll have fewer headaches.

If not, meh. It's your call. But don't say you weren't warned.

Originally posted by Digi
lmao

Speed Force?! Phoenix's?! Directors, do yourselves a favor and read through this:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8474873#post8474873
...and then do yourselves another big favor and ban everything on the loopholes list. I absolutely guarantee you'll have fewer headaches.

If not, meh. It's your call. But don't say you weren't warned.

Yeah, we tried to do that with the rules at the start of the draft. We just have a few characters come up who've arguably crossed the high Herald limit or the banned powers. We're trying to be fair and take it one character at a time.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Yeah, we tried to do that with the rules at the start of the draft. We just have a few characters come up who've arguably crossed the high Herald limit or the banned powers. We're trying to be fair and take it one character at a time. Warned for not heeding Digi's warning! sneer



Let me, PR or Digi know if/when we need to intervene regarding posts, edits, etc.

if zoom is banned so must the silver surfer since his time manipulation powers exceed zooms and are better and can directly affect the offense. Zoom does not use time control in the generic sense. And anyone who is fast enough can actually keep up with him.

Sorry, but we're fully aware of his capabilities.

Zoom is out.

Originally posted by batdude123
Sorry, but we're fully aware of his capabilities.

Zoom is out.
I object to Silver Surfer. He has massive Time manipulations abilities and is a DIRECT violation of the rules. I object to Kyle Rayner being used. His constructs are kin to Summoning since they can have thier own personalities and even tap the speed force. I object to Genis Vell. He is trans tiered. Unless someone thinks Zoom has any chance in hell against King Thor?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I object to Silver Surfer. He has massive Time manipulations abilities and is a DIRECT violation of the rules. I object to Kyle Rayner being used. His constructs are kin to Summoning since they can have thier own personalities and even tap the speed force. I object to Genis Vell. He is trans tiered. Unless someone thinks Zoom has any chance in hell against King Thor? genis didn't really do anything to king thor

I'm pretty sure Zoom could survive a brief encounter as well

Originally posted by Starscream M
genis didn't really do anything to king thor

I'm pretty sure Zoom could survive a brief encounter as well I"m making a point. Zooms powers do not effect time as a weapon. They only allow him to move fast and hit hard. Surfer on the other hand can stop time, go back in time etc. He's far better at time manip than Zoom could ever hope to be. Genis is more powerful than Silver Surfer. Is he skyfather? Maybe not but he's trans for sure. I don't care I just don't like zoom, Who can't fly, can't transmute, doesn't even have super human durability, being banned while the Gods of KMC are being drafted.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I object to Silver Surfer.

No.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I don't care I just don't like zoom, Who can't fly, can't transmute, doesn't even have super human durability, being banned while the Gods of KMC are being drafted. yeah...and you're just picking this handicapped character out of generous charity, right?

I quit. My handicapped character can't get in but the effing silver surfer can. Ridiculous. I only want Zoom cuz he can shoot stuff from his hand and Wally can't.

Zoom Runs fast.

Silver Surfer could turn the ground to mud and Pwn Zoom in a second.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I quit. My handicapped character can't get in but the effing silver surfer can. Ridiculous. I only want Zoom cuz he can shoot stuff from his hand and Wally can't.

Quit bitching.

Also, your teammate is going to be disappointed.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I quit. My handicapped character can't get in but the effing silver surfer can. Ridiculous. I only want Zoom cuz he can shoot stuff from his hand and Wally can't.

Zoom Runs fast.

Silver Surfer could turn the ground to mud and Pwn Zoom in a second. then you should've picked surfer you little baby.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I"m making a point. Zooms powers do not effect time as a weapon. They only allow him to move fast and hit hard. Surfer on the other hand can stop time, go back in time etc. He's far better at time manip than Zoom could ever hope to be. Genis is more powerful than Silver Surfer. Is he skyfather? Maybe not but he's trans for sure. I don't care I just don't like zoom, Who can't fly, can't transmute, doesn't even have super human durability, being banned while the Gods of KMC are being drafted.
Yeah Surfer can do all that stuff involving time manipulation... but he's not allowed to for this tourney because time manipulation is against the rules. I'm sure that if you wanted to draft Zoom but forgo the use of his ability to manipulate the timestream they'd ok him .

Smh...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah Surfer can do all that stuff involving time manipulation... but he's not allowed to for this tourney because time manipulation is against the rules. I'm sure that if you wanted to draft Zoom but forgo the use of his ability to manipulate the timestream they'd ok him .

In other words, he'd be powerless...

Originally posted by illadelph12
Smh...

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I quit. My handicapped character can't get in but the effing silver surfer can. Ridiculous. I only want Zoom cuz he can shoot stuff from his hand and Wally can't.

Zoom Runs fast.

Silver Surfer could turn the ground to mud and Pwn Zoom in a second.
If you're quitting because you couldn't get a character that fires hand blasts, then you don't deserve to be in in the first place.

I'm sorry we can't accommodate everyone but past experiences from other tournaments suggests that certain characters and certain power types need to be banned to keep things fair and avoid controversy and large scale complaints. We are banning characters not to be dicks or jerks, but to try and keep things fair for everyone involved in the tournament.

I wish we could ok everyone and make everybody happy, but the reality is that that just isn't possible. l hope that everyone can understand our decisions even if they do not agree with all of them.

I'm going to give this example and then everyone can twittle thier thumbs.

Zoom is banned because he manipulates time relative to himself. Now the rules were made so no one could manipulate time relative to the battle.

Let's say someone picked metamorpho. He is a molecule manipulator. which is also banned. But guess what. he only does it to himself.

Now, I'm sure he would be allowed. Why not zoom when both characters have powers that are banned for offensive purposes but Not on themselves.

Answer the question. Why can't zoom manipulate himself to run fast but Metamorpho can manipulate himself into adamantium?

matter manipulation is banned for use on opponents. The rules specifically say it can be used on yourself.

Time manipulation, on the other hand, is banned across the board.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I'm going to give this example and then everyone can twittle thier thumbs.

Zoom is banned because he manipulates time relative to himself. Now the rules were made so no one could manipulate time relative to the battle.

Let's say someone picked metamorpho. He is a molecule manipulator. which is also banned. But guess what. he only does it to himself.

Now, I'm sure he would be allowed. Why not zoom when both characters have powers that are banned for offensive purposes but Not on themselves.

Answer the question. Why can't zoom manipulate himself to run fast but Metamorpho can manipulate himself into adamantium?

The argument against him that most concerns me (and the one I didn't think of to begin with) is that because of his time manipulation - based powers, Zoom would automatically get the drop on any other character regardless of of their own speed/reaction times. This become an even bigger issue when one considers the possibilities of power meshing him with other herald level characters. Its an unfair advantage that can't really be matched or countered by other teams given the rules.

Originally posted by King Kandy
matter manipulation is banned for use on opponents. The rules specifically say it can be used on yourself.

Time manipulation, on the other hand, is banned across the board.
No. The PM I got from the Event Coordinator said Time manipulation was banned for offensive purposes. Absolutely no reason Zoom can't use it to run fast. If I wanted someone Who could run fast I could have picked someone faster than Zoom with more powers as There are other lesser known speeders who can do what Zoom can. I want Zoom because he can shoot hand blasts. Other speedsters can't do that.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The argument against him that most concerns me (and the one I didn't think of to begin with) is that because of his time manipulation - based powers, Zoom would automatically get the drop on any other character regardless of of their own speed/reaction times. This become an even bigger issue when one considers the possibilities of power meshing him with other herald level characters. Its an unfair advantage that can't really be matched or countered by other teams given the rules. When Surfer Amps who ever is on his team with a cosmic version of the Odin Force, tell me about what can't be matched or won't be fair.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
When Surfer Amps who ever is on his team with a cosmic version of the Odin Force, tell me about what can't be matched or won't be fair.
That would be banned, because you aren't allowed to amp higher than herald level.

Originally posted by King Kandy
That would be banned, because you aren't allowed to amp higher than herald level. Um yeah amping is allowed. That still wouldn't be skyfather. They already said amping was fair. Pay attention to the coordinators. I did before I even picked Zoom.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No. The PM I got from the Event Coordinator said Time manipulation was banned for offensive purposes. Absolutely no reason Zoom can't use it to run fast. If I wanted someone Who could run fast I could have picked someone faster than Zoom with more powers as There are other lesser known speeders who can do what Zoom can. I want Zoom because he can shoot hand blasts. Other speedsters can't do that.
That's BS then. If the rules are changed they should announce it to everyone.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
When Surfer Amps who ever is on his team with a cosmic version of the Odin Force, tell me about what can't be matched or won't be fair.

That won't be allowed much like any version of the Phoenix Force. Odin Force > herald limit. As we said, any power meshing that clearly puts any character(s) over the herald limit will be banned. Skyfather level power is clearly over the limit.

Originally posted by TheKahn
- Meshing Limit: Power amping is allowed as long as it does not put a character above the Herald limit and can be accomplished once the fight starts or in prep time

Originally posted by TheKahn
That won't be allowed much like any version of the Phoenix Force. Odin Force > herald limit. As we said, any power meshing that clearly puts any character(s) over the herald limit will be banned. Skyfather level power is clearly over the limit. Beta Ray Bill was Never Skyfather even with Surfer's Amp.

Originally posted by King Kandy
That's BS then. If the rules are changed they should announce it to everyone.

The confusion on that issue was my fault. I assumed (always a mistake) that Zoom was ok and acted on that assumption. It was only once several people pointed out the potential problems and allowing him would cause that I realized my mistake. Apologies all around.

I still want to know why it's ok for Metamorpho to use his powers on himself but Zoom can't use his on himself? I don't see the diff. Both have powers that are banned for offensive use.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Beta Ray Bill was Never Skyfather even with Surfer's Amp.

What happened on panel and the inferences and extrapolations that are typically made in tournament debates are two different things. We are going to assume that attempting to simulate neigh-omnipotent power sources would put them over the limit.

Originally posted by TheKahn

The confusion on that issue was my fault. I assumed (always a mistake) that Zoom was ok and acted on that assumption. It was only once several people pointed out the potential problems and allowing him would cause that I realized my mistake. Apologies all around.
So is time manip only banned offensively, or is it banned period?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I still want to know why it's ok for Metamorpho to use his powers on himself but Zoom can't use his on himself? I don't see the diff. Both have powers that are banned for offensive use.

Its two different power sets that we crafted rules against because of different problems that have cropped up in past tournaments. Matter manipulation against opponents are banned to avoid instant-kills and time manipulation is banned because of all the added complexities it brings to both debating and judging.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So is time manip only banned offensively, or is it banned period?

Banned period. Again, I'm sorry for any confusion.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Banned period. Again, I'm sorry for any confusion.
In that case, there's no reason to even debate this. His only power is a banned tactic.

I tell you what. We draft the best matter manipulator in comics.


Jan of Trom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Element_Lad

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I tell you what. We draft the best matter manipulator in comics.


Jan of Trom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Element_Lad

Ok, but you do realize that only post-crisis versions/feats are usable in this draft?

Originally posted by TheKahn
Ok, but you do realize that only post-crisis versions/feats are usable in this draft? He's better post crisis than he ever was pre-crisis. Especially after he fought Mordru.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
He's better post crisis than he ever was pre-crisis. Especially after he fought Mordru.

Alright, let me double check just to be sure and we'll get confirmation to you as quickly as possible.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Alright, let me double check just to be sure and we'll get confirmation to you as quickly as possible. I've already checked. He's done nothing that Silver Surfer hasn't done or exceeded. Except he is just better at matter manip.

Originally posted by Badabing
Warned for not heeding Digi's warning! sneer



Let me, PR or Digi know if/when we need to intervene regarding posts, edits, etc.

Indeed.

I'd also be the most awesome tourney host ever with my current mentality toward them. And by that I mean awesome for me, not for participants. Everything would be banned.

Even though the rules aren't detailed, this is still a fairly airtight tourney. Mainly because meshing past herald is banned, and because they wisely reserved the right to ban things whenever they feel like it.

Originally posted by Digi
Indeed.

I'd also be the most awesome tourney host ever with my current mentality toward them. And by that I mean awesome for me, not for participants. Everything would be banned.

Digi's dream championship fight: quadriplegic Batman vs comatose Captain America.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Even though the rules aren't detailed, this is still a fairly airtight tourney. Mainly because meshing past herald is banned, and because they wisely reserved the right to ban things whenever they feel like it.

I think it might be tricky to determine what the line is...regarding being past herald. it's not a clear cut line.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think it might be tricky to determine what the line is...regarding being past herald. it's not a clear cut line.
Not at all. Since Thor can hurt celestials, Superman can amp up to beat Imperiexes, Silver Surfer can literally bring back entire planets to life, and Kyle has beaten Amazo.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think it might be tricky to determine what the line is...regarding being past herald. it's not a clear cut line.

Yeah its going to be a little tricky and its going to be a subjective decision for every judge to make. Personally, I see the issue as that if an amped character appears to be capable of feats belonging to a skyfather rather than a herald. And I honestly think crossing that gap under the time/prep limits of this tourney will be quite difficult.

That's a rather big gap to me; like the difference between a planetary threat and a galactic one. Making Superman stronger, or Thor faster really isn't going to cross the line. But that's just my opinion and other judges may have different views on the issue.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Not at all. Since Thor can hurt celestials, Superman can amp up to beat Imperiexes, Silver Surfer can literally bring back entire planets to life, and Kyle has beaten Amazo.

The judges aren't going to base their decisions on character's high-end feats alone. In my mind, I consider what is typical of a character's strength/speed/durability/destructive power when considering an argument for that particular individual.

A debater better have a damn good argument if they want me to accept either a high or low outlier feat as definative.

Originally posted by TheKahn
But that's just my opinion and other judges may have different views on the issue. who would you say would be the lowest skyfather...or an example of one?

would depowered tyrant be skyfather?

I always considered Tyrant to be above most skyfathers.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I always considered Tyrant to be above most skyfathers. so who would be a low skyfather? thanos?