Who is smarter: Batman Vs. Iron Man

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Scythe
My buds and I have been arguing over this for quite some time, drunkin' comic arguments are the best btw, and I want to see what the smart people with comic evidence have to say about this. Maybe change my mind as well as everyone elses.

I remember Batman made that super computer that went haywire, oh no, tough shit. It went crap, but they stopped it if I remember. Then you have Iron man, who is a genius, but sent Hulk to space, which wasn't very smart, though I know he's pretty brilliant. So let's see what you all have to say, my vote for the time being goes to Batman though.

Show only canon examples please, Ultimate Iron Man wouldn't count as we're talking about 616 Iron Man and.... well.... whatever earth the real Batman is from.

Tha C-Master
Different types of smarts. Batman is more of a detective, and Iron Man is more tech, but stat wise Bats is more genius while Iron Man is more Super Genius like Reed Richards, just had a natural aptitude for his field, way beyond what a human would. Even the most intelligent will make bad judgment calls, that is more based on wisdom than anything.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Different types of smarts. Batman is more of a detective, and Iron Man is more tech, but stat wise Bats is more genius while Iron Man is more Super Genius like Reed Richards, just had a natural aptitude for his field, way beyond what a human would. Even the most intelligent will make bad judgment calls, that is more based on wisdom than anything.

Juntai
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Different types of smarts. Batman is more of a detective, and Iron Man is more tech, but stat wise Bats is more genius while Iron Man is more Super Genius like Reed Richards, just had a natural aptitude for his field, way beyond what a human would. Even the most intelligent will make bad judgment calls, that is more based on wisdom than anything. If you sat them down with collegiate graduate tests of various types, Batman will smoke him though, and even hold his own in the tech field.

Juntai
They pause at the doors. "This speech therapist..." Batman says.
"Miss Wisakedjak. She graduated from the Rose Bruford School."
Batman's lip curls.
"Wisakedjak is the name of the Cree Indian trickster god, " he says, as if it's something only idiots wouldn't know. "Where's Harley Quinn?"

Batman 663.

Philosophía
Batman.

Blanket
Batman has a higher IQ, and could build robots way better than Tony

Omega Vision
Batman is the world's greatest detective and the world's second greatest in pretty much every other scientific discipline. Tony Stark is the world's greatest Futurist according to Reed Richards but outside of his specialty (engineering and robotics) he's not very impressive. Batman meanwhile is the perfect lab assistant because while he may not be the very best in anything outside of criminology he is still one of the best. Batman is a jack of all trades and a master of one at the same time. In a bot building competition I'd give Tony the nod but Batman cleans up in virtually everything else.
Now as far as wisdom and common sense go Batman wins again. Cunning? Batman. Strategy? Tony isn't shabby in that department but Batman is generally recognized to be the King of Prep as far as heroes are concerned.

tideoftime
Batman has the all-around greater intellect and thought processes; IronMan is intelligent, but his talent in the tech-field is more reflective of a genius aptitude in a specific field of thought/study, rather than raw mental prowess.

Bentley
Nah, Iron man is more of a genius and IS smarter than Bruce. Batman is way more disciplined with everything that comes in between.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Bentley
Nah, Iron man is more of a genius and IS smarter than Bruce. Batman is way more disciplined with everything that comes in between.
In what ways is he smarter? Generally the ability to learn and store information is what constitutes the modern view of intelligence (contrast wisdom and cunning) and in that regard Batman is much better. He knows things Tony Stark will never know and while Tony was getting his degree at MIT Bruce was traveling the world learning not just from the world's greatest scientists, chemists, and criminologists but also from the greatest monks and spiritual leaders who taught him things Tony can't imagine. In the same time Tony learned how to be an awesome engineer Bruce learned how to become the pinnacle of human achievement.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Juntai
If you sat them down with collegiate graduate tests of various types, Batman will smoke him though, and even hold his own in the tech field. Good point, he is versatile, but Tony still has that supernatural ability, and he's outsmarted Reed before as well. Tony is an engineer and businessman predominately though. Excellent strategist too.

Mshinu
Tony probably got better raw intellect. Bats has more dicipline and willpower.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Omega Vision
In what ways is he smarter? Generally the ability to learn and store information is what constitutes the modern view of intelligence (contrast wisdom and cunning) and in that regard Batman is much better. He knows things Tony Stark will never know and while Tony was getting his degree at MIT Bruce was traveling the world learning not just from the world's greatest scientists, chemists, and criminologists but also from the greatest monks and spiritual leaders who taught him things Tony can't imagine. In the same time Tony learned how to be an awesome engineer Bruce learned how to become the pinnacle of human achievement. Intelligence doesn't "grow" by studying that's knowledge, intelligence is potential and capacity, how long would it take for one to learn in that area? Bit of a difference.

snoopdogg
Overall all things considered I'd go with Bruce.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Intelligence doesn't "grow" by studying that's knowledge, intelligence is potential and capacity, how long would it take for one to learn in that area? Bit of a difference.
You missed my point. By learning so much in such a short time Batman proved he had immense intellect whereas Tony comparatively showed that he was a natural engineer but not much else. Ask yourself: who do you think would be better at solving a crossword puzzle? Who could come up with a great plan to save the world in a pinch? Who could learn a dead language in an hour's time to decipher an ancient scroll just by learning a single word and working from there with context clues? The answer is Batman, Batman, and Batman.

Bentley
Originally posted by Omega Vision
In what ways is he smarter? Generally the ability to learn and store information is what constitutes the modern view of intelligence (contrast wisdom and cunning) and in that regard Batman is much better. He knows things Tony Stark will never know and while Tony was getting his degree at MIT Bruce was traveling the world learning not just from the world's greatest scientists, chemists, and criminologists but also from the greatest monks and spiritual leaders who taught him things Tony can't imagine. In the same time Tony learned how to be an awesome engineer Bruce learned how to become the pinnacle of human achievement.

What Tony has, we call it intuition. He never trained himself to become the best at something, it just comes natural to him; there is not a great effort and unnatural time invested in becoming better than everyone else in the world. Bruce trained all his life to become the best, he is more disciplined, he tried to learn more things, to always be the best. Tony never really tried to become the best in everything, and his intelligence is too wild, too untamed to have the discipline and patience to go for everything. He wants good results fast and he gets them.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Bentley
What Tony has, we call it intuition. He never trained himself to become the best at something, it just comes natural to him; there is not a great effort and unnatural time invested in becoming better than everyone else in the world. Bruce trained all his life to become the best, he is more disciplined, he tried to learn more things, to always be the best. Tony never really tried to become the best in everything, and his intelligence is too wild, too untamed to have the discipline and patience to go for everything. He wants good results fast and he gets them. Exactly my point. I know I myself too have not a lot of interest in many things, but I've always had the aptitude.

Now if you consider training, then Batman wins in many fields, but I'm just saying aptitude. What if Tony led Bruce's life and vice versa?

Firestorms
I might give Tony a slight edge


When it comes to computers, genetics, physics, spaceships, machines, military products and general science, and inventions Tony gets a lead in his science
He has a long list of feats
Super camouflage, Cloaking, Stealth
Repulsors, Lasers, remote controlled grenades you name it
Intelligence systems for the U.S. Gov
Helping clone Thor
Building Tanks, Aircraft, a flotilla of Satellites
Arc Reactor
Hacking into systems with technopathy


But the truth is Batman seems to have more variety to him, he's trained in martial arts, he's a top business man, is way more disciplined
Batman is a much better detective
The Wayne foundation has more money
Batman is a great Leader

It's true Tony can be a good leader and a good business man, but his Business Empire is broke down and his people skills sucked during Civil War. I also think Thor should have beat the crap out of Reed since he was also involved in everything
Right now Batman is ahead of Tony but when Ironman gets back on his feet and back to full speed even the Batman can not match him.

celeyhyga17
Who cares who's smarter... All I know is they're both billionaire playboys!! That's what really counts.... =P

Tha C-Master
BTW Reed with Prep makes Batman look like a mentally deficient 7 year old on life support. There is no comparison really. Well there is some... but not much more.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
BTW Reed with Prep makes Batman look like a mentally deficient 7 year old on life support. There is no comparison really. Well there is some... but not much more.
The same could be said about common sense and wisdom for Batman though. Reed has been described as the "world's dumbest smart guy"

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The same could be said about common sense and wisdom for Batman though. Reed has been described as the "world's dumbest smart guy" So Batman's tower of Babel incident wasn't dumb? Heroes all make mistakes as they're human. Batman has an empty life, how wise is that?

Nevermind though this is about intelligence. While wisdom is ultimately more important, it isn't the debate right now.

SamZED
Originally posted by Juntai
They pause at the doors. "This speech therapist..." Batman says.
"Miss Wisakedjak. She graduated from the Rose Bruford School."
Batman's lip curls.
"Wisakedjak is the name of the Cree Indian trickster god, " he says, as if it's something only idiots wouldn't know. "Where's Harley Quinn?"

Batman 663. That doesnt prove he's smarter, only that he's a smartass.

Juntai
Originally posted by SamZED
That doesnt prove he's smarter, only that he's a smartass. And that off the top of his head without missing a beat he knows facts like the deities of an all but lost culture that worldwide combined couldn't even compose a small city. That's just one example.

Badabing
It's always difficult to pick the smarter person. They both have feats to support who's smarter. They are both among the top 10 smartest people in their universe's Earth. I think Batman has the edge in overall expertise across a broader range. Stark is more of an accomplished engineer.

psycho gundam
not breaking joker's neck the first time, major points deducted from ol' batsy

redhotrash
Well if we are talking potential for knowledge, Tony wins. He naturally learns faster imo. Granted his field is more in robotics and such, but I figured thats because he lacks the motivation or need to expand. How often do people come to him with a genetics problem?

Juk3n
intellegence in a particular area of expertise ie; engineering/mechanics/robotic/computer/ai/ and such..Tony.

Worldy knowledge/general knowledge/the guy id want on my pub quiz team? Bruce.

Scythe
Awesome posts, guys.

namorsubby
bruce is smarter IMO.......ironman has more of a technical skill in engineering and great understanding of it, but is not at par when it comes to simply having a broad spectrum of knowledge

King Kandy
They have different kinds of intelligence. Batman is more like an improviser, he learns what he needs to to do what he needs to. Iron Man stays in his field.

saurabh kanhere
I will say batman is better . A master of almost every field...and he also had some suits which can take out IM.

relentless1
depends on what kind of smarts youre talking about; engineering and building weapons Tony is smarter hands down, everything else Bruce is smarter, the guys a polymath; genius in most, if not all fields applicable to modern science and technology and even in the areas where Tony is smarter Bruce is no slouch by any means so I have to give the "smartest" award to Bruce overall.

Rezactic
Engineering, technology, putting theory into practice = Stark

Deduction, problem solving, reasoning ability = Batman

If there was a threat that these had to contend with, Batman would most likely come up with a solution and Stark would put the solution into practice.

ODG
Stark is smarter.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Rezactic
Engineering, technology, putting theory into practice = Stark

Deduction, problem solving, reasoning ability = Batman

If there was a threat that these had to contend with, Batman would most likely come up with a solution and Stark would put the solution into practice.

This. Each has their own specialties.

ODG
Originally posted by Golgo13
This. Each has their own specialties. Batman comes up with the solution to the threat, Stark just executes them with his engineering? Even if I spent the time coming up with the 101 reasons why I think that's completely wrong, doesn't that opinion strike anyone else as a rather myopic over-generalization?

I mean, just consider threats and solutions on the macro scale. What solutions does Batman ever come up with when the DC Multiverse is being threatened? Answer: jack and sh1t.

Bruce has essentially been a non-factor every time.

What solutions does Stark come up with when the Marvel Multiverse is being threatened? Answer: read Time Runs Out.

And I think it speaks a great deal to Tony's intelligence that among all of Marvel Earth's geniuses, he's the only one who intuited and grasped upon the cold truth of the matter from the start.

Sure they each have their specialties. But frankly one operates on a scale far beyond the other.

CatL18
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Different types of smarts. Batman is more of a detective, and Iron Man is more tech, but stat wise Bats is more genius while Iron Man is more Super Genius like Reed Richards, just had a natural aptitude for his field, way beyond what a human would. Even the most intelligent will make bad judgment calls, that is more based on wisdom than anything.
Agree

Rezactic
Originally posted by Golgo13
This. Each has their own specialties. Howard Gardner came up with the idea of multiple types of intelligence, there are 9 such as logical, verbal, intrapersonal. Out of 9 types of intelligence I'd say that Bruce has the advantage over Tony. I'd say that he's a bit smarter overall and more valuable to the superhero community than Tony is, he also advantages such as an eidetic memory that Tony lacks.

Decimus
Stark is considerable more intelligent than Bruce I mean if he wanted to his intelligent plot powers would achieve him a victory a lot faster at pretty much any form of intelligence there is when compared directly. Him mind would be a form of AGI which would learn everything same with reed or doom if you look at it from a realistic perspective. And for doom that doesn't even factor magic into what type of hybrid AGI mind he would have so yeah Stark would out lass batman before the opposite occurred in real time .

ODG
Originally posted by Rezactic
he also advantages such as an eidetic memory that Tony lacks. Tony has eidetic memory on par if not superior to Bruce's. Especially since he used Extremis to alter his brain into something more akin to a hard-drive.

beatboks
There is no denying Tony is smarter at engineering and the physical sciences.

I would say Bruce is undeniably smarter in behavioral sciences.

Life sciences i would say they pretty much split

Rezactic
Some physical sciences, I'd still say that Bruce has the edge in chemical sciences ei forensics

saurabh kanhere
Batman works at night. Stealth is what he is. He don't require suits to show off like IM. Consider Batman Beyond's suit which can be invisible and all that..so, he can make suits just better as IM too. He just doesn't need that doesn't mean he is inferior to IM.
Batman is always a step ahead when it comes to prep.
yeah, but other round IM will win for sure.... huh

Henry_Pym
Tony has suits that can do everything BB can do and more.

Also Beyond Bruce is at best a future version, it's like using what if comics as canon for Tony.

quanchi112
Tony Stark. It isn't close.

Rezactic
Originally posted by saurabh kanhere
Batman works at night. Stealth is what he is. He don't require suits to show off like IM. Consider Batman Beyond's suit which can be invisible and all that..so, he can make suits just better as IM too. He just doesn't need that doesn't mean he is inferior to IM.
Batman is always a step ahead when it comes to prep.
yeah, but other round IM will win for sure.... huh While I agree that Bats is overall smarter he isn't going to make better suits, unless you consider the Hellbat or Justice Busters which were one time things.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Juntai
If you sat them down with collegiate graduate tests of various types, Batman will smoke him though, and even hold his own in the tech field.

So you're saying that somebody with inferior overall intelligence with likely a lower IQ.. is going to do better on a collegiate graduate test... How so?

Rezactic
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So you're saying that somebody with inferior overall intelligence with likely a lower IQ.. is going to do better on a collegiate graduate test... How so? Neither characters IQ has ever been stated in canon (alot of people claim 192 but that was Ted Kord's) but I'm guessing you (and 80% of this forum) have never stepped foot in a university and half of that probably flunked out of high school. A college graduate test are based both on varied knowledge and being able to apply one's self, both of which Tony is inferior.

Don't talk about subjects you aren't very knowledgeable on, idiot.

Rezactic
Case in point Return of Bruce Wayne had Batman formulating a plan that spanned the dawn of time to the end of the universe to stop Darkseid from caving in all of reality, despite being stuck in the past, with no tech and while being chased by the Hyper Adapter

In short, it's a feat that shits on all of Stark's prep feats considering the scale and the fact that again, Bruce was extremely limited.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Rezactic
Neither characters IQ has ever been stated in canon (alot of people claim 192 but that was Ted Kord's) but I'm guessing you (and 80% of this forum) have never stepped foot in a university and half of that probably flunked out of high school. A college graduate test are based both on varied knowledge and being able to apply one's self, both of which Tony is inferior.

Don't talk about subjects you aren't very knowledgeable on, idiot.


So you're a moron then? Good to know. Now, please back up your claim that Tony would be inferior on a varied knowledge test. To even suggest something like that tells me you have literally no idea what you're talking about. You do realize that in order to design some of what he has it takes a variety of knowledge in so many areas. Elite knowledge. Now prove your case

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rezactic
Case in point Return of Bruce Wayne had Batman formulating a plan that spanned the dawn of time to the end of the universe to stop Darkseid from caving in all of reality, despite being stuck in the past, with no tech and while being chased by the Hyper Adapter

In short, it's a feat that shits on all of Stark's prep feats considering the scale and the fact that again, Bruce was extremely limited. That has nothing to do with overall intelligence. Someone might plan a helluva wedding planner but ask them a thing about physics and they are lost. Batman is The wedding planner whereas Tony is the physicist.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Tony has suits that can do everything BB can do and more.

Also Beyond Bruce is at best a future version, it's like using what if comics as canon for Tony.

Current Batman designed and created Brother Eye. That's far away better than anything Beyond Batman has done.

ODG
Originally posted by Golgo13
Current Batman designed and created Brother Eye. That's far away better than anything Beyond Batman has done. This is inaccurate. Batman only built Brother MK I. Which was built for the sole purpose of monitoring superhumans and nothing else. Brother MK I was hacked by Maxwell Lord and then enhanced with an evolving sentience by Alexander Luthor. It eventually became Brother Eye. Originally posted by Rezactic
Case in point Return of Bruce Wayne had Batman formulating a plan that spanned the dawn of time to the end of the universe to stop Darkseid from caving in all of reality, despite being stuck in the past, with no tech and while being chased by the Hyper Adapter

In short, it's a feat that shits on all of Stark's prep feats considering the scale and the fact that again, Bruce was extremely limited. You have no idea know what the phuck you're talking about. Good riddance.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Golgo13
Current Batman designed and created Brother Eye. That's far away better than anything Beyond Batman has done. Exposed.

laughing out loud

Golgo13
Originally posted by ODG
This is inaccurate. Batman only built Brother MK I. Which was built for the sole purpose of monitoring superhumans and nothing else. Brother MK I was hacked by Maxwell Lord and then enhanced with an evolving sentience by Alexander Luthor. It eventually became Brother Eye. You have no idea know what the phuck you're talking about. Good riddance.

Are you talking DCnU Batman here? When did Maxwell lord hack BE?

Mindset
Originally posted by Golgo13
Are you talking DCnU Batman here? When did Maxwell lord hack BE? I imagine he's talking about IC.

Anyway, Batman didn't even create MKI on his own iirc.

Golgo13
He created BE in the DCnU, though. I think it was stated that Terrific helped him in Futures End, can't remember, though.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Golgo13
He created BE in the DCnU, though. I think it was stated that Terrific helped him in Futures End, can't remember, though. laughing out loud

Can't remember.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by quanchi112
That has nothing to do with overall intelligence. Someone might plan a helluva wedding planner but ask them a thing about physics and they are lost. Batman is The wedding planner whereas Tony is the physicist.

thumb up the best way I've seen of describing Bats and his prep.

saurabh kanhere
Batman knowS almost everything and tony doesn't . Moreover, Bruce applies them also...tony is not better or even equal. Bruce is SMARTER.

krisblaze
Well, the batcomputer and brother eye are pretty impressive techwise.

Not sure if they could really compete with Iron Man's all out stuff.

By and by I think Tony's confidently smarter than Batman.

saurabh kanhere
Originally posted by krisblaze
Well, the batcomputer and brother eye are pretty impressive techwise.

Not sure if they could really compete with Iron Man's all out stuff.

By and by I think Tony's confidently smarter than Batman.
thats not it, u measuring batman with his animated series. His watchtower and all that of JL is more than IM suits.

Tezrax2
Batman is considerably smarter than Iron Man is. Sure Iron Man can win when it comes to building a science project (although Batman would do just fine in that category) but there's so much more to intelligence than that.

Not only is Batman more versatile but his mind is way more analytically built than Iron Man is and would figure a problem out much faster. Batman's ability to learn and absorb knowledge is also better, this is someone who's mastered every fighting style, detective skills, and is more than capable in most fields of science, if Batman had spent his life study solely engineering and robotics he could of easily have surpassed Iron Man in these fields.

Golgo13
Looks like Bruce is going to be something similar to Metron/ New God.

Blair Wind
If Batman were smarter, he wouldn't be out there beating criminals with his fists - he'd be using his money to alleviate the problems that lead to criminals in the first place. He's not fighting the core issue, he's beating on the symptom.

Anyway, I'm just going to leave this here:

http://i61.tinypic.com/20rmjjd.jpg

Golgo13
I'd like to see where Bruce ' s best suits stack up against Tonys.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Blair Wind
If Batman were smarter, he wouldn't be out there beating criminals with his fists - he'd be using his money to alleviate the problems that lead to criminals in the first place. He's not fighting the core issue, he's beating on the symptom.

Anyway, I'm just going to leave this here:

http://i61.tinypic.com/20rmjjd.jpg That scan is rather questionable though.
Reed has random weapons that can dust Celestials, close black holes, and a whole lot of other things. Along with many dimensional relevant things. Time portals, dimensional portals, etc.

Even Galactus respects his intelligence.

Reed's modesty doesn't put Tony on Reed's actual ability to apply his intelligence. What we've seen from Reed puts Tony back in high school. Maybe their actual iq is similar, but what they can do with it is not.

Kryptoniano
Tony Stark and all of Marvel's top geniuses are much smarter than Bruce Wayne.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Golgo13
I'd like to see where Bruce ' s best suits stack up against Tonys. Did Bruce create any of his suits?

saurabh kanhere
Originally posted by Kryptoniano
Tony Stark and all of Marvel's top geniuses are much smarter than Bruce Wayne.
iq doesn't matter that much, batman's battle strategy and tactics are way more impressive than those.

ODG
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That scan is rather questionable though.
Reed has random weapons that can dust Celestials, close black holes, and a whole lot of other things. Along with many dimensional relevant things. Time portals, dimensional portals, etc.

Even Galactus respects his intelligence.

Reed's modesty doesn't put Tony on Reed's actual ability to apply his intelligence. What we've seen from Reed puts Tony back in high school. Maybe their actual iq is similar, but what they can do with it is not. I think they're closer than you think.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Iron%20Man/Stark%20Respect33%20Avengers%20v5%2044.jpg

But this is a Batman vs Iron Man thread, not a Reed vs Tony thread.

Galan007
If we're talking about who has used their intelligence to construct the better tech, Tony wins solidly--I don't think it's even debatable. Building godlike hyper-tech is simply what he does.

If we're talking about intelligence in the way of strategizing/planning for various scenarios, however, it's much closer. My gut would still point me toward Tony, but I can understand why some would choose Bats.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by ODG
I think they're closer than you think.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Iron%20Man/Stark%20Respect33%20Avengers%20v5%2044.jpg

But this is a Batman vs Iron Man thread, not a Reed vs Tony thread. Like I said, it seems more like modesty than anything. For Iron Man to catch up to what Reed has done based on a couple of statements isn't right. It's not that Tony is dumb or anything or any less, but Reed just has been doing ludacris bridges stuff his entire career. Minus Hickman's Avengers, how close do you think the two would be?

Not that I'm saying it has thread bearing but merely throwing it out there to ward off Batman fans shouldn't work without a little context to it. Modesty does happen in comics and it's not like Reed is full of ego. He's also wrong about that statement you used as well if we consider builders like Galactus.

That being said, Val would assblast both at the same time.

Galan007
http://s29.postimg.org/pzr6ipvkn/Untitled.png


ermmhappy

Branlor Swift
Pretty much split between Doom and Reed. During Secret Wars Reed was better and now Doom is back on top.

Though I don't know why Doom would say that considering how he stole Galactus' power was some pc level of retardation that it has to be genius. Straight up orange juice and a flashlight shit.

Mindset
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Pretty much split between Doom and Reed. During Secret Wars Reed was better and now Doom is back on top.

Though I don't know why Doom would say that considering how he stole Galactus' power was some pc level of retardation that it has to be genius. Straight up orange juice and a flashlight shit. They had to appease Reed fans somehow.

Doom is clearly superior.

ODG
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Like I said, it seems more like modesty than anything. For Iron Man to catch up to what Reed has done based on a couple of statements isn't right. It's not that Tony is dumb or anything or any less, but Reed just has been doing ludacris bridges stuff his entire career. Minus Hickman's Avengers, how close do you think the two would be?

Not that I'm saying it has thread bearing but merely throwing it out there to ward off Batman fans shouldn't work without a little context to it. Modesty does happen in comics and it's not like Reed is full of ego. He's also wrong about that statement you used as well if we consider builders like Galactus.

That being said, Val would assblast both at the same time. Minus Hickman, I'd still put them really close. Hickman just had Tony get back into the weapons-building business with a vengeance. He's been a futurist and plot-device engineer before Hickman with S.P.I.N. Tech, power drainers, temporal transposers, time machines, terraformers, armors that can go against Skyfathers and Abstract forces, etc.

Frankly, Val's more like Tony. And she seems elevated far more by lip-service than actual achievements. What has she built again? A light saber? Not sure why you hold her in such high regard given your objections with Hickman's treatment of Tony. Originally posted by Mindset
They had to appease Reed fans somehow.

Doom is clearly superior. thumb up

Galan007
Val came up with the idea for the ship they'll use to survive the death of the multiverse--the one covered in LT's 'skin'. She's also been instrumental in its construction. /shrug

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by ODG
Minus Hickman, I'd still put them really close. Hickman just had Tony get back into the weapons-building business with a vengeance. He's been a futurist and plot-device engineer before Hickman with S.P.I.N. Tech, power drainers, temporal transposers, time machines, terraformers, armors that can go against Skyfathers and Abstract forces, etc.

Frankly, Val's more like Tony. And she seems elevated far more by lip-service than actual achievements. What has she built again? A light saber? Not sure why you hold her in such high regard given your objections with Hickman's treatment of Tony. thumb up
True he is smart, and his Phoenix Killer suit is probably the height of that. And the Thorbuster was good though a little bit of a gift from Thor due to power.
Though you contrast that with shit like the Anti Galactus Suit, the controversal map of the universe feat where he guided proper restoration, and shit like black hole closing guns and Celestial killing weapons (using Hickman's F4). Hell even the Quasar construct guiding to depower Galactus. Screwing up date indexes for the TVA. As well as shit like the zeno room where nothing can cross (but sound) being simple builds. And in Fraction's run Reed pretty much had a TARDIS that had iirc pocket dimensions on the inside and it could travel through time and space. Guy went to the big bang.
And other random shit along those lines.

I'm not saying Tony is stupid, but I think the emphasis of him straight up being Reed level and above it in a lot of ways is a little drastic. To me at least it seems to have come out of left field and based primarily on the dyson sphere. Had the dyson sphere not existed Tony wouldn't have done too much this entire run. Though it's not like Reed's done better... I don't even know what Reed's done. Meh
Honestly based on statements from Hickman's run Tony might as well be smarter than Reed. He's a better builder, he's a better multitasker, and he's only fractionally dumber than Reed and worse at single focus. That... doesn't feel right. erm



She's solved shit Reed couldn't figure out a couple times. The latest being the last issue of F4. She was walking Doom through ways to live and get unlimited power. She also seems to know pretty much how to survive this latest ordeal without any real outside help.
And pretty much every time her and Doom or her and Reed are shown to converse she seems a step ahead.

If Val put her mind to it, she'd come up with some next level shit. Though admittedly this is due to a lot of discussion between characters and not so much on tech. She knows things but doesn't apply it directly.


I'd say top in Marvel go like this:

Galactus
Doom (now)/Maker
Val/Doom/Reed/Thanos
Tony
Pym/Black Panther

Might be some missing but that's the jist of it. Hickman Thanos is not smart at all though.

krisblaze
^ your missing captain britain from that list.

abhilegend
Hickman Thanos might as well be a purple hulk in terms of smartness.

Hexititus
Batman is smarter, but now that he's becoming a New God he'll pretty much be smarter than anyone in Marvel.

juggernaut74
Mr. Terrific is supposed to be the 3rd smartest man on DC earth, who is the top 2?

Golgo13
The Chief and Ray Palmer, IMO. I'd put Luthor above Terrific as well.

Golgo13
Shit, forgot about T.O. Morrow and Ultra-Humanite. They're all pretty close.

Mindset
Originally posted by Golgo13
Shit, forgot about T.O. Morrow and Ultra-Humanite. They're all pretty close. Why are you copying Bran's icon?

ODG
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
She's solved shit Reed couldn't figure out a couple times. The latest being the last issue of F4. She was walking Doom through ways to live and get unlimited power. She also seems to know pretty much how to survive this latest ordeal without any real outside help.
And pretty much every time her and Doom or her and Reed are shown to converse she seems a step ahead.

If Val put her mind to it, she'd come up with some next level shit. Though admittedly this is due to a lot of discussion between characters and not so much on tech. She knows things but doesn't apply it directly. Were the problems that Val solved done without assistance and/or guidance from Adult Franklin and Nathaniel Richards? I don't quite remember what she solved that Reed didn't.

Doom was also revealed as using Val when she was staying with him, no? Aside from the Inversion stuff where he genuinely wanted to turn a new leaf.

I mean before Reed, Doom and Val, Stark was the one who realized there was no saving the Marvel Multiverse. He knew it from the start, which is why Captain Universe and Cap were so angry with him. So if we're talking about intuition and being a step ahead, seems Stark has the edge. Same thing happened with Civil War.

-K-M-
Originally posted by Mindset
Why are you copying Bran's icon?

OMG you're right!!!!

He's a thief!!!! BRAN GET IN HERE!!!!!

Golgo13
Who's Bran?

Mindset
Originally posted by Golgo13
Who's Bran? Who isn't Bran?

Silent Master
Tony is smarter.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Mindset
Who isn't Bran?

Bran.

shadowknight
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Mr. Terrific is supposed to be the 3rd smartest man on DC earth, who is the top 2? Pre NDCU it was

Luthor
Sivana

NDCU


Luthor
Niles Caulder

sadwqecqw
Batman is smarter

ODG
Originally posted by Galan007
Val came up with the idea for the ship they'll use to survive the death of the multiverse--the one covered in LT's 'skin'. She's also been instrumental in its construction. /shrug On this, I re-read some issues and while Valeria did use the Future Foundation to construct it, it was actually T'Challa who came up with the design:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Everything%20Dies07.jpg

And while she realized they needed to figure out how not to lose, it's unclear to me whether Valeria actually solved that problem with the idea of a liferaft. Seems T'Challa did.

juggernaut74
Has Batman ever been stated in an actual comic as being one of the smartest people on the planet?

iodarwar
Batman, he excels in multiple fields while Iron Man really only excels in maybe 2 or 3

shadowknight
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Has Batman ever been stated in an actual comic as being one of the smartest people on the planet? Pre Crisis , definitely. Post Crisis they all talk about how brilliant he's, how smart he's. But I don't recall them stating outright as one of the smartest people on the planet. Let's put it this way he's understood tech and reversed engineered tech at least 1,000 yrs ahead of Earth. He's outsmarted Lex Luthor number of times and he's supposed to be the smartest man on the Planet.

Galan007
Originally posted by ODG
On this, I re-read some issues and while Valeria did use the Future Foundation to construct it, it was actually T'Challa who came up with the design:

And while she realized they needed to figure out how not to lose, it's unclear to me whether Valeria actually solved that problem with the idea of a liferaft. Seems T'Challa did. Yeah, my bad. I should have phrased it differently. Val came up with the general idea, T'Challa came up with the general design, and the Future Foundation(under the direct supervision of Val) built it from scratch.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by shadowknight
Pre Crisis , definitely. Post Crisis they all talk about how brilliant he's, how smart he's. But I don't recall them stating outright as one of the smartest people on the planet. Let's put it this way he's understood tech and reversed engineered tech at least 1,000 yrs ahead of Earth. He's outsmarted Lex Luthor number of times and he's supposed to be the smartest man on the Planet. I remember reading a DC secret files and in there it stated he is one of the smartest people on the planet. But that's not on panel.

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