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DR Punisher and Henry vs Ras Al Ghul. They have to assasinate each other using there resources. Prep is ongoing and indefinite.

Ra takes it. He's a master planner and prep time just give him the edge.

Indefinite prep for Ras Al Ghul? Shit man, he's like 800 years old. Punny has no chance against the entire League of Assassins. Even if he does beat them all he'll end up being killed by poison in his drink.

So Ras is better than Norman Osborn and The Hood?

Originally posted by Deadline
So Ras is better than Norman Osborn and The Hood?
Yes and hell yes.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yes and hell yes.

Ermm I dunno about that for starters Hood and Norman could pull-off what Ras did in Tower Of Babel because he has an expert ahcker like Microchip on his side.

Frank is also an expert on ninjuitsu he doesnt just know about the martialk arts but traps they use and has created an antidote for a poison (the said ninja had been taught poison by a ninja grandmaster).

High Evolutinary has attempted to kill Frank an failed by the way, so has Doom. Doom underestimated him but was still impressed and hes better than Ras

Ra's should win in the end.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ra's should win in the end.

I think its a stalemate. According to Remender Hood and Norman wouldnt have won if it wasn't for Hood raising his family. Eventhough Ras could do it Hood still failed to use it as a bargaining chip.

Originally posted by Deadline
DR Punisher and Henry vs Ras Al Ghul. They have to assasinate each other using there resources. Prep is ongoing and indefinite.
Ras is supposed to have tons of resources and influence. Automatic win for Ras there.

If it were a standard gear/prep match, Castle would win.

Um so does Norman Osborn + the Hood. Business as usual.

Ras Al ghul > Norman Osborn + Hood, I don't think so. Anarky didnt beat Ras with more resources than Punisher has.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Osborn's assassins killed the Punisher... right?








Yeah. That's right.

Norman is alive. Frank is dead.

Castle had been trying to kill Osborn since Dark Reign began. He even got a shit load of high-tech weaponry and a replacement for Microchip. But, even with all that, Osborn's power and resources overwhelmed the Punisher. He didn't even have to do anything himself.

Raj would do the same, sending waves of assassins rather than break a sweat himself.

Originally posted by Deadline
Um so does Norman Osborn + the Hood. Business as usual.

Ras Al ghul > Norman Osborn + Hood, I don't think so. Anarky didnt beat Ras with more resources than Punisher has.
Anarky beat R'as because (1) he's a Gary Stu (2) he's on a similar level of intelligence to guys like Doom and Luthor.

ras no question here.



i think he has osborn and hood too

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Osborn's assassins killed the Punisher... right?








Yeah. That's right.

Norman is alive. Frank is dead.

Im afraid thats not that good a point. Punisher wasn't fighting Norman on his own he was fighting both Osborn and The Hood so if you think that Ras = Norman + The Hood then you have a point.

The only reason why The Hood messed up Frank was because he raised his family but even then Hood couldn't kill him because Frank had an ace up his sleeve that caused Hood to back off. Ras isn't even more formidable than The Hood.


Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Castle had been trying to kill Osborn since Dark Reign began. He even got a shit load of high-tech weaponry and a replacement for Microchip. But, even with all that, Osborn's power and resources overwhelmed the Punisher. He didn't even have to do anything himself.


One of the reasons why Punisher didn't kill him was because of Sentry unless Ras has somebody as powerful as The Sentry at his beck and call I dont see what point you. Again Norman + Hood beat Punisher.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Raj would do the same, sending waves of assassins rather than break a sweat himself.

Except The Hood failed to do that and The Hoods assassins are most likley more powerful then the league.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Anarky beat R'as because (1) he's a Gary Stu (2) he's on a similar level of intelligence to guys like Doom and Luthor.

Anarky beat ras by using computer hacking skills. Henry has comparable skils to Microchip who hacked the X-mens computer...for fun. Henry could have done the exact samething that Anarky did.

Originally posted by namorsubby
ras no question here.



i think he has osborn and hood too

You think? I havent seen Ras do anything that Hood and Norman couldnt do. IMO each of them could takes Ras, but I could be wrong.

Um...is the punisher dead?!

What did the Hood do that's really all that impressive? Seems like he was mostly just Dormammu's pawn.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Indefinite prep for Ras Al Ghul? Shit man, he's like 800 years old. Punny has no chance against the entire League of Assassins. Even if he does beat them all he'll end up being killed by poison in his drink.

So Ra's could use his prep to simply wait till Punisher dies at senile decay?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
So Ra's could use his prep to simply wait till Punisher dies at senile decay?
Yes. Lazarus pits and all.

Originally posted by Deadline
Im afraid thats not that good a point. Punisher wasn't fighting Norman on his own he was fighting both Osborn and The Hood so if you think that Ras = Norman + The Hood then you have a point.

The only reason why The Hood messed up Frank was because he raised his family but even then Hood couldn't kill him because Frank had an ace up his sleeve that caused Hood to back off. Ras isn't even more formidable than The Hood.

One of the reasons why Punisher didn't kill him was because of Sentry unless Ras has somebody as powerful as The Sentry at his beck and call I dont see what point you. Again Norman + Hood beat Punisher.

Except The Hood failed to do that and The Hoods assassins are most likley more powerful then the league.

The Sentry, the Hood, Daken, Bullseye, Ares, Moonstone, Gargan Venom, the resurrected Scourge victims, etc.---All in Osborn's pocket. They aren't his allies, ready to help; they're his mercenaries, ready to carry out his will. Mercenaries count as resources.

I don't know much about Ras Al Ghul, but I know enough to know he has enough assassins to have the Punisher killed without having to enter the fight himself.

Turning it into a prep match is what wins it for Ras. If it had been "al Ghul + assassins against the Punisher with his Dark Reign arsenal, frontal assault starting x distance apart" scenario, then I'd give it to the Punisher.

I honestly think R'as could beat Punisher in a face to face battle if it came to it. Somehow I don't think Frank is as good as Batman at shirtless fencing.

ras whoop still whoop him in h2h

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I honestly think R'as could beat Punisher in a face to face battle

I don't think he could take the Dark Reign Punisher except with face to face you mean weaponless

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The Sentry, the Hood, Daken, Bullseye, Ares, Moonstone, Gargan Venom, the resurrected Scourge victims, etc.---All in Osborn's pocket. They aren't his allies, ready to help; they're his mercenaries, ready to carry out his will. Mercenaries count as resources.

Not sure how that helps your point. Normans mercenaries/troops > Ras.

You also need to distinguish between The Hoods troops and Obsborns I have a feeling thats what you might be trying to say. At any rate individually they both have more formidable troops and arguably equal resources.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

I don't know much about Ras Al Ghul, but I know enough to know he has enough assassins to have the Punisher killed without having to enter the fight himself.

More assassins than The Hood? You sure about that?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Turning it into a prep match is what wins it for Ras. If it had been "al Ghul + assassins against the Punisher with his Dark Reign arsenal, frontal assault starting x distance apart" scenario, then I'd give it to the Punisher.

I fail to see how hes going to do that when both The Hoods troops are more dangerous. The standard troops that Punisher was fighting were enhanced and highly trained and he killed alot of them. League of assassins are not enhanced in general eventhough some of them might be.

Originally posted by Deadline
Not sure how that helps your point. Normans mercenaries/troops > Ras.

You also need to distinguish between The Hoods troops and Obsborns I have a feeling thats what you might be trying to say. At any rate individually they both have more formidable troops and arguably equal resources.
The Hood's mercenaries are Osborne's indirect assets.

I know we're discussing a comic character who is so bad-ass, he can take on a few metas and entire platoons on his own. Still, the numbers have to count for something after a point. Again, I don't know much about al Ghul's assassins, but I imagine they're more than likely DC's version of the Hand.

Originally posted by Deadline
More assassins than The Hood? You sure about that?

Wouldn't matter if he has more assassins than the Hood. He only needs enough.
Originally posted by Deadline
I fail
ha-som







Sorry. Couldn't help it.
Originally posted by Deadline
I fail to see how hes going to do that when both The Hoods troops are more dangerous. The standard troops that Punisher was fighting were enhanced and highly trained and he killed alot of them. League of assassins are not enhanced in general eventhough some of them might be.
The Punisher is a total hard-ass and the weapons he had in Dark Reign could give him the edge. I just wiki'd the League of Assassins, and if it only consists of the members listed, then I think Castle takes it every time. If the League includes those listed + countless cannon fodder ninjas, then the League takes it.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The Hood's mercenaries are Osborne's indirect assets.


That doesnt make them part of his organisation. Hoods assests are his own and so are Osborns they could use each others due to their arrangement but Norman is one organisation and the Hood is another. Hell if The Hood wanted to he could tell Norman to **** off it would be harder for members of the DA to do that.


Doesnt help your argument anyway. Norman is still > Ras.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol

I know we're discussing a comic character who is so bad-ass, he can take on a few metas and entire platoons on his own. Still, the numbers have to count for something after a point. Again, I don't know much about al Ghul's assassins, but I imagine they're more than likely DC's version of the Hand.


Again...you are missing the point as usual. You need to prove that Ras has more goons, than The Hood because The Hood did the same thing and failed.



Originally posted by Eternal Idol


Wouldn't matter if he has more assassins than the Hood. He only needs enough.

ha-som







Sorry. Couldn't help it.

Are you serious was that actually supposed to be a point?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

The Punisher is a total hard-ass and the weapons he had in Dark Reign could give him the edge. I just wiki'd the League of Assassins, and if it only consists of the members listed, then I think Castle takes it every time. If the League includes those listed + countless cannon fodder ninjas, then the League takes it.

At any rate you need to prove he has more goons than Hood.

I don't have to prove anything, because I never claimed Ra's had more henchmen than Osborn or the Hood. What I have said is that large numbers can and probably will overwhelm Castle. It doesn't take groups as powerful as the Dark Avengers and the Hood's criminal syndicate working together to kill the Punisher, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The Punisher is a total hard-ass and the weapons he had in Dark Reign could give him the edge. I just wiki'd the League of Assassins, and if it only consists of the members listed, then I think Castle takes it every time. If the League includes those listed + countless cannon fodder ninjas, then the League takes it.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I don't have to prove anything, because I never claimed Ra's had more henchmen than Osborn or the Hood. What I have said is that large numbers can and probably will overwhelm Castle.

Yes actually you do, but I won't elaborate.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

It doesn't take groups as powerful as the Dark Avengers and the Hood's criminal syndicate working together to kill the Punisher, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

The people that Norman and The Hood sent after The Punisher are more formidable than what Ras has.

The quote changes nothing they do have some of those listed but im pretty sure that some of those listed are not members of the league anymore such as Cassandra and Lady Shiva (not under Ras anyway). Nyssa is also dead.

I suspect they do have 'countless' assassins but so does The Hood and he failed to kill Punisher. Also the people that the Hood sent after the Punisher are more formidable than what Ras has.

Hood goons >>> Ras.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ermm I dunno about that for starters Hood and Norman could pull-off what Ras did in Tower Of Babel because he has an expert ahcker like Microchip on his side.

Frank is also an expert on ninjuitsu he doesnt just know about the martialk arts but traps they use and has created an antidote for a poison (the said ninja had been taught poison by a ninja grandmaster).

High Evolutinary has attempted to kill Frank an failed by the way, so has Doom. Doom underestimated him but was still impressed and hes better than Ras Frank has never EVER been able to kill a guy on Ra's level.

Frank tried to kill kingpin for years and he was never more then an expense post for Kingpin.

Frank is not and has not ever been on a level to threaten someone like Osborn Kingpin or Ra.

Originally posted by godking
Frank has never EVER been able to kill a guy on Ra's level.


Hes come pretty close.

Originally posted by godking

Frank tried to kill kingpin for years and he was never more then an expense post for Kingpin.

You make that sound like thats a small thing.

Originally posted by godking

Frank is not and has not ever been on a level to threaten someone like Osborn Kingpin or Ra.

Wrong. Obvoulsy the reason why those guys were trying to kill him was because he wasn't a threat. facepalm

On at least one oocassion KP has been saved by sheer luck (Punisher got knocked over by Batroc he wasn't even trying to fight Frank and was trying to find an antidote for a posion).

Punisher came extremely close to killing Norman, Sentry saved his arse. Taking into a account that Ras doesn't have somebody like Sentry in his team Punisher wins.

Haterade?

Originally posted by Deadline
Hes come pretty close.



You make that sound like thats a small thing.



Wrong. Obvoulsy the reason why those guys were trying to kill him was because he wasn't a threat. facepalm

On at least one oocassion KP has been saved by sheer luck (Punisher got knocked over by Batroc he wasn't even trying to fight Frank and was trying to find an antidote for a posion).

Punisher came extremely close to killing Norman, Sentry saved his arse. Taking into a account that Ras doesn't have somebody like Sentry in his team Punisher wins.

Haterade? Punisher was an expense post for kingpin at best he might have cost kingpin a million here or there but he was never going to bring him down. He was an annoying fly that kingpin once in a while took a swat at.

Doom wanted to kill punisher as a bet he has no personal interest in him.

Ra does not need a sentry to send frank on a wild goose chase or manipulate him inot killing his enemies as Kingpin did for years.

Originally posted by godking
Punisher was an expense post for kingpin at best he might have cost kingpin a million here or there but he was never going to bring him down. He was an annoying fly that kingpin once in a while took a swat at.

Did you hear what I just said? I just told you he could have killed KP at least once but was saved by sheer luck. Read Eurohit.

No he was more than an annoying fly stop making shit up. Flies don't nearly kill people.

Originally posted by godking

Doom wanted to kill punisher as a bet he has no personal interest in him.

Doom >>> Ras. Actually he had to save face but since Punisher blackmailed him he backed off.

Originally posted by godking

Ra does not need a sentry to send frank on a wild goose chase or manipulate him inot killing his enemies as Kingpin did for years.

Again Punisher almost killed him but was saved. I suspect your twisting the truth, KPs enemies were Punishers enemies.

You missed the point. Punisher nearly killed Norman and Sentry saved his arse.

Norman > Ras.

Ra's wins.

Osborn was going after Punisher plus half of the MU heroes at the time and still got the job done. Imagine what Osborn could have accomplished if he'd focused only on Frank.

Ra's has a worldwide network of people and resources. If he got it in his head that Frank was to be eliminated then it would happen. Just ask the JLA.

ABC logic and hollow comparisons of Character A >>>> Character B >>>> Character C are pointless. I could easily say the same things in reverse order and it would still only be my opinion without some shred of proof.

Frank just doesn't have the resources to trump Ra's. Osborn got him while going after the Mighty Avengers, New Avengers, X-Men, FF, Stark, Spider-Man, Banner, etc.

Originally posted by Badabing
Ra's wins.

Osborn was going after Punisher plus half of the MU heroes at the time and still got the job done. Imagine what Osborn could have accomplished if he'd focused only on Frank.


Yes but Norman > Ras, for example Norman has Sentry. Osborn only manged to do it because of The Hood. It could also be argued that Hood > Ras.

Originally posted by Badabing

Ra's has a worldwide network of people and resources. If he got it in his head that Frank was to be eliminated then it would happen. Just ask the JLA.

So does The Hood and he failed. The Hood could have also achieved what Ras did.

Ras also got beaten by Anarky and Ras only seems to have done something on that scale once. Anarky > JLA?

Originally posted by Badabing

ABC logic and hollow comparisons of Character A >>>> Character B >>>> Character C are pointless. I could easily say the same things in reverse order and it would still only be my opinion without some shred of proof.

You're using ABC logic as well. Punisher has never fought Ras before so the best comparisons are Norman, The Hood etc.

Originally posted by Badabing

Frank just doesn't have the resources to trump Ra's. Osborn got him while going after the Mighty Avengers, New Avengers, X-Men, FF, Stark, Spider-Man, Banner, etc.

Again he only manged to do that because of The Hood.

Also it should be noted Ras used Batmans countermeasure not his own. Without the countermeasrues Ras would have got jack done.

So what you're saying is, Osborn was only able to have the Punisher killed because he had an army of superhumans, and would not be able to accomplish the same using legions of ordinary soldiers and mercenaries?

I guess the Viet Cong army was lucky Castle went AWOL when his family was killed.

Sheesh, if this is Punisher vs. Ras AND all of his worldwide resources, I have little choice but to go Ras (hardly close to a fair fight really). If this is simply Frank vs. Ras alone, Ill give the more than not win percentage to The Punisher.

Originally posted by DTM
Sheesh, if this is Punisher vs. Ras AND all of his worldwide resources, I have little choice but to go Ras (hardly close to a fair fight really). If this is simply Frank vs. Ras alone, Ill give the more than not win percentage to The Punisher.

Ras wins.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So what you're saying is, Osborn was only able to have the Punisher killed because he had an army of superhumans, and would not be able to accomplish the same using legions of ordinary soldiers and mercenaries?

I guess the Viet Cong army was lucky Castle went AWOL when his family was killed.

What im saying is Norman > Ras and he manged to kill him because of The Hood. So the point is moot.

Not only that despite the resources Norman has Punisher still nearly killed him. If it wasn't for Sentry Norman would have been dead. Ras doesn't have half the firepower that Norman has but you still think he will win.


Originally posted by DTM
Sheesh, if this is Punisher vs. Ras AND all of his worldwide resources, I have little choice but to go Ras (hardly close to a fair fight really). If this is simply Frank vs. Ras alone, Ill give the more than not win percentage to The Punisher.

Except The Hood has Ras resources and then some and failed to kill Frank. In fact I don't even see how the hell hes going to kill him. Nobodies actualy given a reason so far except thats its Ras.

Originally posted by Deadline
What im saying is Norman > Ras and he manged to kill him because of The Hood. So the point is moot.

Not only that despite the resources Norman has Punisher still nearly killed him. If it wasn't for Sentry Norman would have been dead. Ras doesn't have half the firepower that Norman has but you still think he will win.

Will Ras be making a public speech out in the open too?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Will Ras be making a public speech out in the open too?

Im not going to get into that (because we will just go round and round). The bottomline is you keep arguing that Ras countless goons and cannon fodder will take out Punisher. Not going to happen because Hood's goons failed to kill Punisher. Hood resorted to using more powerful guys and he still failed.

There you have it, folks...

Punisher = top tier

Originally posted by Deadline
Im not going to get into that (because we will just go round and round). The bottomline is you keep arguing that Ras countless goons and cannon fodder will take out Punisher. Not going to happen because Hood's goons failed to kill Punisher. Hood resorted to using more powerful guys and he still failed.

To be fair Punisher had help too...

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
There you have it, folks...

Punisher = top tier

When he has somebody like Henry backing him up damn straight is. Good grief. facepalm


Originally posted by Parmaniac
To be fair Punisher had help too...

and thats why I stated at the beginning of the thread he has help from Henry. Hell even Batman needs help sometimes.

Ra's did manage the whole Tower of Babel thing with his resources.

Originally posted by Q99
Ra's did manage the whole Tower of Babel thing with his resources.

Not entirely true. The reason why it was succesful was because of Batmans countermeasures, no countermeasures Ras gets jack.

Originally posted by Deadline
Not entirely true. The reason why it was succesful was because of Batmans countermeasures, no countermeasures Ras gets jack.

Batman made the data, yea, but Ra's constructed and implemented all of them successfully, from the freeze bomb, fear gas, 'trap you in an endless fight' bug, flame nanites, etc..

Even if it was someone else's idea the successful deployment is pretty impressive.

Originally posted by Q99
Batman made the data, yea, but Ra's constructed and implemented all of them successfully, from the freeze bomb, fear gas, 'trap you in an endless fight' bug, flame nanites, etc..

Even if it was someone else's idea the successful deployment is pretty impressive.

Yes it pretty impressive it still doesnt change the fact he wouldn't have done it without Batman. You don't think any of the data would have included how to construct it? He was actually working on the vibra-bullet when the data was stolen. The Kryptonite was already there.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
There you have it, folks...

Punisher = top tier
Originally posted by Deadline
When he has somebody like Henry backing him up damn straight is. Good grief. facepalm
Good grief indeed... facepalm

So, what you're saying is... numbers are insignificant because the Punisher is incapable of tiring; is either bullet-proof/stab-proof/magic-proof or just outright intangible; can carry and automatically switch weapons of all sorts and sizes, ala Grand Theft Auto, complete with the unlimited ammo cheat; and (with the help of Micro, Henry, or Stuart Clarke) could take out Earth's population in a single effort if he so wished?

Since the Hood's forces failed to kill Castle, does that mean he could take out any one of them (including the Hood) in a one-on-one confrontation?

Doom failed to kill Castle too. Clearly the Punisher is on his level, and Asgard would be wise to recruit Castle during Siege. And hey, with those Frankenstein upgrades and the rest of the Monster Squad, it should be a cinch.

facepalm