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battle takes place in a huge arena



all-out

I know there is more to Diablo than the game shows, but if it is that version of Diablo, Lich King will win.

Indeed, inside the game alone the LK has more power, lore Diablo would stomp.

In theory

In A>B logic.

A>B(>C) logic is not very usable against foes like Lich King for one, or other characters who does not rely on a lot of damage to win their fights.

Then the questions comes: Can Diablo see across dimensions? Can he survive the Frostmourne? Can he harm the Lich King in the spirit world? Things like that.

I think lorewise Diablo is much alike to Satan from Christianity in many respects. He claims that he takes souls with his "not even death cna save you from me" and the like which means he must be able to see spirits and he is ruler over hell where dark souls go. And Diablo can see/appear in the mortal realm at will from hell.

I doubt the LK could stand the sight of Diablo, the LK or Arthas in general have a lot to fear from their past and possibly their future.

Flawless logic.

Elaborate that last part.

I hear the LK is more Arthas, if not entirely Arthas rather than Nerzhuel? therefore ghosts of his past such as his father as seen in the intro to the new patch would likely haunt him to distraction, maybe simply the fear of his own destruction. Either way whatever the LK fears most Diablo takes the form of it. Even his servants who were masters of fear themselves almost flee in fear at his very presence.

Diablo even at his weakest could give life to the nightmares of Prince Albrecht, a young boy who was brought to him through the use of illusions and his corrupting influence on an Arch bishop. This was all while he was nothing but a soul trapped in a soul stone, arguably the weakest Diablo has been.

I think its possible that at full power Diablo could combine the above stated to put fear and confusion into the LK enough for him to destroy himself or give Diablo the opportunity he needs to devour the soul.

He has lost his love, killed his father, banished himself and the entire world hates him.

Seems a little far fetched to turn his fears against him. This is the guy that walked around without his still beating heart. In Rise of the Lich King book, the last part of him that was the slightest bit human supposedly died.

As for the trailer, it does not imply anything at all. The only thing you see going on there is Arthas listening to his father, completely devoid of emotions.

Then a conglomeration of those fears would be arrayed in Diablos form. Fear does not disappear with humanity, theres little to claim he has no fear, nightmare or dreams. In fact being the LK his mind is likely full of many things that would be considered nightmares and could be given life by Diablo much the same as he did with albrecht.

My point is that you are speaking in benefit of Diablo for a weakness we do not know if the Lich King has.

Actually, iirc Arthus was apparently devoid of emotions. I remember in Warcraft 3 a Dreadlord asked him whether he felt anything after killing his father and he replied in a detached voice that he actually didn't feel anything. I don't pretend to be an expert though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, iirc Arthus was apparently devoid of emotions. I remember in Warcraft 3 a Dreadlord asked him whether he felt anything after killing his father and he replied in a detached voice that he actually didn't feel anything. I don't pretend to be an expert though.

Yea, Arthas said that he felt "No remorse. No shame. No pity."

Which are completly different to fear, assuming he has no emotions when both Nerzhuel as the LK has shown them as did Arthas obviously as a human. Both have emotions, why should he lose them now? why should we assume he does not know fear when theres nothing to support it?

His conciousness is enormous, its highly unlikely fear, even the smallest amount would not be among such a mind. Also didnt the LK retreat from several battles? such as the forsakens gas that sent him off into his citadel, Ashbringer which pushed him back?

If for some reason he had no fear then Diablo would be invisible I guess

Originally posted by Burning thought
Which are completly different to fear, assuming he has no emotions when both Nerzhuel as the LK has shown them as did Arthas obviously as a human. Both have emotions, why should he lose them now? why should we assume he does not know fear when theres nothing to support it?

His conciousness is enormous, its highly unlikely fear, even the smallest amount would not be among such a mind. Also didnt the LK retreat from several battles? such as the forsakens gas that sent him off into his citadel, Ashbringer which pushed him back?

If for some reason he had no fear then Diablo would be invisible I guess

You think fear is required in order for someone to retreat? Anyone with the capability to think would retreat from those battles that Arthas fled from. Just because you do not fear, does not mean you just drop dead when you have the option to survive.

Then he obviously fears his own destruction and has a will to survive. Hence perhaps Diablo would take the form of his own death. Nerzhuel also sounded fearful when Arthas was on his way towards him as his life force was seeping from the throne.

Ner'Zhul is dead, buddy. Arthas killed him. Arthas also killed himself. I think you would enjoy reading Rise of the Lich King.

As for fearing, you do not fear death just because you decide to survive rather than die. Dying is stupid and Arthas is not stupid.

Ner'Zhul was still the LK, he had fears and emotions yet obviously piecies of these characters remain otherwise why would he still have his father in spirit form? I probably would enjoy it.

Dying is stupid? tell that to all those mad mages who become liches, they seem to do well out of being dead. Arthas/LK is arguably dead in a sense....your assuming the LK perspective on his own death just as much as I am it seems....

Either way, being fearless or not, Diablo gains an advantage from either.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ner'Zhul was still the LK, he had fears and emotions yet obviously piecies of these characters remain otherwise why would he still have his father in spirit form? I probably would enjoy it.

Dying is stupid? tell that to all those mad mages who become liches, they seem to do well out of being dead. Arthas/LK is arguably dead in a sense....your assuming the LK perspective on his own death just as much as I am it seems....

Either way, being fearless or not, Diablo gains an advantage from either.

His father imply that all the souls claimed by Frostmourne remain within it. The fact that his father speaks might be for no other reason than because his father wants to speak. As you can see in the trailer, he is not the only soul there.

The mages did not so much die as ascend into a greater form. They traded mortality for immortality. Arthas being slain can not be compared to that. Arthas dying would be a strategical setback for him and he has had enough of those. He would probably prefere staying alive.
But then again you could be right, that might be just me jumping to conclusions.

Elaborate.

But why would Blizzard use Arthas' father as the main speaker of the ghostly host, it seems more than a coincidence, I highly doubt there is no consience or fear left in the LK if Blizzard use thoughts of the past as if the LK were plagued.

Well Diablo takes the form of fears, thats what he is. If his opponent is fearless then Diablo would technically would not be able to be percieved by the LK.

Also note the power levels, where Azeroth, the scourge and all those who have fought have only been fighting for what? hundreds if not thousands of years....the burning hells and the high heavens fight across "both time and space, infringing upon the very fabric of reality itself" "The great conflict burned hotter and longer than any of the stars in the sky" , taking this into account Diablo and his brothers are ancient beyond the Lich King, perhaps even more so than those that created him (Eredar).

Hells armies that foughtacross time and space as stated and who have fought for countless eons beyond most Azerothians and perhaps even the LK could imagine. The three brothers, Diablo, Mephisto and Baal slaughtered an entire third of hells armies when they were supposedly going to be exiled. This information is from the Diablo manuel, Diablo being the strongest of the three lords of hell will certainly be no push over for the LK.

Blizzard also used Arthas father as narrator of the Wrath of the Lich King cinematic. To use his father rather than someone else is psychologically satisfying and adds a lot more power to the punch. To be frank, it could be defined as a marketing choice to use his father. Not even Highlord Bolvar Fordragon could add more drama to it all. Remember that Arthas father was his first significant victim and the two being related makes it so much bigger.

The Diablo heroes saw Diablo in his physical form. What makes the Lich King not?

Where did the age thing come from? How is that relevant? And how is how many they slayed relevant? And how did that answer my question?

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
Blizzard also used Arthas father as narrator of the Wrath of the Lich King cinematic. To use his father rather than someone else is psychologically satisfying and adds a lot more power to the punch. To be frank, it could be defined as a marketing choice to use his father. Not even Highlord Bolvar Fordragon could add more drama to it all. Remember that Arthas father was his first significant victim and the two being related makes it so much bigger.

The Diablo heroes saw Diablo in his physical form. What makes the Lich King not?

Where did the age thing come from? How is that relevant? And how is how many they slayed relevant? And how did that answer my question?

I ask the creator of the thread, is this Diablo at his strongest, Diablo in physical manifestation after being destroyed? are the feats found in books of either characters allowed?

Hm fair enough, I have no further argument and its unimportant since its difficult to be clear now what Diablo this is.

I assumed this was the strongest form of both of them. Therefore I did not think we were using the weaker diablo who had possessed a human form. Its likely that the normal physical form is a ret-con as thats what the books are created to do, bridge the gaps in the story between. Some fans also speculate that this form is supposedly the one chosen by blizzard to be frightening, obviously it is impossible to have the character of a game change depending on what the player fears. Regardless of all that, the books outline that is what diablo is.

Its massively relevent. Diablo is far more ancient then the LK could ever know and has battled on even terms with his armies across a battlefield also unimaginable by those of Azeroth and for a length of time that would be impossible for Azerothian standards yet Diablo and his armies not only stand against it but sometimes take hold and push to the very heart of heaven and heaven often push to the hell forge at the heart of hell. my point is that the LK hides in his tiny little stronghold (In comparison to heaven and hell) and his tiny armies and he holds his forces back against a smaller foe than Diablo and his brothers face.

Its obvious the LK is always holding back his armies as he has not sent them all out against Azeroth, the weakling is pushed back by gases from the forsaken and a few men with enchanted weapons while Diablo and his brothers wipe out a third of their own enormous legions that have fought longer than stars have been in the sky. Thats billions of years worth of armies who are more experianced in battle and arguably more powerful as well than the typical troop on Azeroth a third of which destroyed by diablo. Thats an incredible gauge of power considering the LK against weaker forces is hiding up in his frosty stronghold. I have seen nothing of the LK to think he could destroy a third of his own meager armies or of his opponents.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its massively relevent. Diablo is far more ancient then the LK could ever know and has battled on even terms with his armies across a battlefield also unimaginable by those of Azeroth and for a length of time that would be impossible for Azerothian standards yet Diablo and his armies not only stand against it but sometimes take hold and push to the very heart of heaven and heaven often push to the hell forge at the heart of hell. my point is that the LK hides in his tiny little stronghold (In comparison to heaven and hell) and his tiny armies and he holds his forces back against a smaller foe than Diablo and his brothers face

How is that relevant?

Because first it would make Diablo immensly endurant, no physical weapon by the LK would even harm him if he can take on the whole of hell and after being defeated, had destroyed an entire third of them. Immensly strong/powerful to be able to defeat so many forces and would deem him likely to be immune to almost all powers the LK has that are worth doing as the forces of hell obviouls use weapons of the soul, ice, fire etc if you have played Diablo?

Also based on implied knowledge, Diablo and his brothers would be resistant or at least untouchable by powers over time, space, dimension etc as the angels of the high heavens, especially the leaders could freeze time on a planetary or at least a country wide scale and erase the memories of everyone on it, they could also imprison opponents in the void yet despite all these powers over time, reality and minds they never used them on the three prime evils and even had to honour a pact with the weakest of the three, just food for thought since it is not a direct feat.

Considering his soul is likely going ot be the thing LK will want to attack, its important to note also that it took a shard from the worldstone, a monumental crystal of both demon and angelic power implanted in the head of Diablo to contain his soul, and even then his physical form had to be conquered for this to even work. This ofc I am speaking of the weaker diablo, the enormously powerful one in hell must have been immune to soul disruption considering its lilkely that one out of the entire legions of hell would have control over souls as they do eat souls.

The three brothers alone defeated a third of an army that would swallow Azeroth and their battle is against soldiers such as angels such as Tyrael, not skeletons, footman or minor entities. The Lich King could not hope to stand against the smallest fraction of what Diablo destroyed.