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Alright, here's the rules:

They're on a planet approximately twice the size of earth. Samus is there to hunt two parasitic and infectious life forms, vvampires and Jenova, while MewTwo wants nothing to do with thier genetic material and so has decided to team up with Samus.

Conversely, realising what they're up against, Kain and Sephiroth have summoned the God of War! Or something.

Rules:
-Accurate physics apply.
-MewTwo can use abilities from outside the games, and Sephiroth can use abilities from outside the games as well.
-The planet is an ice world, like Simia Orilchae, and anyone who knows why that fictional planet is awesome wins a cookie.
-No screwing around with time, outside the direct rammifications of the laws of physics.
-None of that no-limit fallacy crap.

BEGIN!

we allowed to use Gayph's abilities in KH?

I'm allowing canon abilities only. Otherwise this gets kind of spitey due to SSB.

Agreed.

Kain blood showers/ soul rapes everyone present then crushes Samus like a tin can with the combined psychic/mental TK power of M2 and Sephiroth while causing blood cells to spray at speed through her heart.

Why the hell does that planet sound familiar...

Necrons, Moo, Necrons.

Yeah, I don't even know that game but the planet sounds familiar.

Necrons are a race from Warhammer 40k

http://www.purplepawn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/necron_warrior.jpg

First off ice will effect any walkers, eg Kratos really would have a hard time getting a foot down.

Sephiroth and Kains TK can not match Mewtwos. Able to create a storm effortlessly with a flick of his wrist and lifting a bus from 20km(?) away. Beats their feats. Hes got better speed. Kratos has not got much to go on Mewtwo.
Adding Samus to this seals the deal. Maybe not instantly but eventually her hits will take them down. He holds, she punches lol

Team 2 wins.

What are Necrons doing here?

Nah, MewTwo's just sorta there.. On vacation? Annnnd, the iceworld is a tombworld. Sooo, there's an army of the bastards down there should things get too loud.

The will of the C'tan star gods?

Originally posted by Burning thought
The will of the C'tan star gods?

Napping?

Wait.


3-on-2 matches are allowed now?

I'm relatively certain they always have been.

Originally posted by BloodRain

Adding Samus to this seals the deal. Maybe not instantly but eventually her hits will take them down.


At first glance, I thought it said her **** would take them down. Lol, perception fail.

/facepalm

Nercon's are badass.

I am not sure why everyone forgets this, but Sephiroth held back a force capable of pushing an 1800 tonne airship from deep within the planet to high in the sky at absurd speeds.

Sephiroth vs Mewtwo is a good match. Yeah, laugh if you want.

Guessing Kratos is in his highest god form, Kratos > Samus via buttrape and Kain watches with a bag of popcorn.

Kain solos eveyone on the field though, in the case they decide to team up on him due to his ugliness.Originally posted by K1ll3r
I am not sure why everyone forgets this, but Sephiroth held back a force capable of pushing an 1800 tonne airship from deep within the planet to high in the sky at absurd speeds. Who gives a damn? We are anti-anything FFVII, remember?

Originally posted by Shutter Control
Who gives a damn? We are anti-anything FFVII, remember?

Riiight right, totally forgot.

lol

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Wait.


3-on-2 matches are allowed now?

when its mewtwo on the lesser team.

I don't think team 2 needs any more than it has for this to be competitive.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
I am not sure why everyone forgets this, but Sephiroth held back a force capable of pushing an 1800 tonne airship from deep within the planet to high in the sky at absurd speeds.

We dont even have specifics on how he held it back or how he contained it....its not like we see Holy speeding towards Sephiroth while knocking over mountains and he just grabs it. Furthermore as has been stated, its a spell, its a magic ball of energy not a physical force....the fact it knocked back the airship is irrelevent, it may not have even been physical.

And as for M2, his forces are not so useful if Sephiroth can lightspeed and Kain has time powers. Teleportation screws with M2 anyway.

Originally posted by Burning thought
We dont even have specifics on how he held it back or how he contained it....its not like we see Holy speeding towards Sephiroth while knocking over mountains and he just grabs it. Furthermore as has been stated, its a spell, its a magic ball of energy not a physical force....the fact it knocked back the airship is irrelevent, it may not have even been physical.

And as for M2, his forces are not so useful if Sephiroth can lightspeed and Kain has time powers. Teleportation screws with M2 anyway.

1. Lol, that literally makes no sense. How does it knock something back but not have physical impact on it. You are sounding like Screampaste thinking that Omnislash is physical when it does nothing physical.

2. It isn't like Holy wouldn't be trying to accomplish it's goal, the sole purpose of the spell is to stop Meteor. Why would it not be trying to accomplish it's goal. Why would it stop? It has no mind.

3. Sephiroth held it back with his will, like he willed himself back to life and how he willed things into existance and how he willed buildings to fall down. Much like you will your arm to move.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
1. Lol, that literally makes no sense. How does it knock something back but not have physical impact on it. You are sounding like Screampaste thinking that Omnislash is physical when it does nothing physical.

2. It isn't like Holy wouldn't be trying to accomplish it's goal, the sole purpose of the spell is to stop Meteor. Why would it not be trying to accomplish it's goal. Why would it stop? It has no mind.

3. Sephiroth held it back with his will, like he willed himself back to life and how he willed things into existance and how he willed buildings to fall down. Much like you will your arm to move.

1. But grabbing a ball of magic with telekinetic force does? there are no speciifc stats on holy so saying "it makes no sense" is not something to fall back on. Its just a ball of magic, perhaps the spells purpose is to push things away that get close to it which would make sense as it attempts to stop meteor which it doesnt want hitting the planet.

2. It has a caster, it may have different ranges of power, it may gain momentum. you cannot simply assume it was moving at that speed or size as Sephiroth captured it.

3. So technically its not TK, its a specific ability whos power would be useless in attempting anything else.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And as for M2, his forces are not so useful if Sephiroth can lightspeed and Kain has time powers. Teleportation screws with M2 anyway.
Because M2 totally can't teleport himself, mirite? dur

Originally posted by Burning thought


And as for M2, his forces are not so useful if Sephiroth can lightspeed and Kain has time powers. Teleportation screws with M2 anyway.

Lightspeed would be rendered useless if you are being TKed. Duh.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Lightspeed would be rendered useless if you are being TKed. Duh.

If your already going lightspeed which is faster than anyone on the field can react then you would phase through and melt your target.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Because M2 totally can't teleport himself, mirite? dur

hm what? where did I say M2 cannot teleport? or even assume it?.....

Him having teleport does not really negate anyone else having it...it just means if he stops and tries any mental powers hes going to get teleported next to and cut in two.

Originally posted by Burning thought
If your already going lightspeed which is faster than anyone on the field can react then you would phase through and melt your target.

Um, no. When has anyone in FF ever phased through a telekenetic blast with light speed?

What are you asking? if anyone has lightspeed?

Dissidia, it was discussed and proven in that other thread that its canon. Considering this is just plain old sephiroth I assumed with that being canon then he can indeed go lightspeed, even if its limited he would move at a speed that none here can see or react to and would turn M2 or Samus into dust unless her high tech suit or shields have somehow managed lightspeed.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Sephiroth can't go lightspeed anymore than he can hit someone with the power of an exploding star. Lulz. And people call me a fanboy. I'm pretty tame caompared to such outlandish, and entirely baseless claims. Both of which defy everything about FF7.

Remember that whole summoning a meteor and waiting a month thing Seph does in FF7? KIND OF MOOT if you can use the power of an exploding star! And that attack doesn't kill Cloud.. WAIT! Maybe Cloud is SUPAR DURABLEZ! He could just jump into space and tank the meteor hit for the planet at no damage. haermm Ohwait, no. Cloud would have been killed by Shin Bahumat if Aeris dead ass hadn't helped him.. WAIT! Maybe Bahumat was going easy on all that fragile metal scaffolding?

The "light speed" movement is a single, obviously hyperbolic and isolated statement which applies only to one, probably non-cannon special move in Dissidia. He doesn't move that fast. If he did, he wouldn't need to pilot a plane-Ohhh waaait. Wasn't that one of those big plans he had? You only need to go mach 22 to escape the gravity of a planet, and he couldn't even do that. Cloud can react to Sephiroth's movements, Cloud is OBVIOUSLY FASTER THAN LIGHT! Ohwait, Cloud gets shot in AC. Hm. MAYBE THE BULLET WAS FTL!?

...No, FFanboys. No.

lol....SO true!!!!!

M2 would stop Seph, perhaps before he has a chance to go 'light speed'.
Sephs speed may be faster, but his mental reaction speed is not. M2 sees him attempt to do a fat attack and he'll teleport, put up a barrier etc. Acts before Seph knows what hes doing. M2>supercomputer>others. Mewtwo mindrapes.

Samus' armour can withstand alot of damage ._.

I'd like to point out, this "proof" of Sephiroth's speed is one obvious exaggeration in some flavour text, and can be discarded.

Originally posted by BloodRain
M2 would stop Seph, perhaps before he has a chance to go 'light speed'.
Sephs speed may be faster, but his mental reaction speed is not. M2 sees him attempt to do a fat attack and he'll teleport, put up a barrier etc. Acts before Seph knows what hes doing. M2>supercomputer>others. Mewtwo mindrapes.

Samus' armour can withstand alot of damage ._.

I dont think M2 has mindraped anyone of worthy mension, also his brain is as quick as a supercomputer, but that does not mean he can call upon his powers or physically keep up with anyone just as fast as his mind can calculate it.

IF Sephiroth can get off lightspeed against M2, assuming its not an ability that takes long to do then M2 is molten vapour, otherwise Kain just teleports and beheads the little dude.

Lmao. Overrated character is overrated.

Actually, BT, it does, because his powers come directly from his mind.

His powers coming from his mind does not mean he can call upon these powers as quickly as his brain can calculate. As weh ave seen in the anime and cartoons his eyes light up, he concentrates for moments at time to get desired effects. Its shown to take concentration and more thna just a vague thought to pull off his powers.

Stop. Just....stop.

I am sorry I am demolishing your arguments and your trolling too fast, Ill wait a while for your little "offensive" to get backtogether and find some evidence perhaps....

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am sorry I am demolishing your arguments and your trolling too fast, Ill wait a while for your little "offensive" to get backtogether and find some evidence perhaps....

http://www.clubfuji.com/Ash/a%20InternetToughGuy.jpg

Lol, whatever you say, Enlightened One.

That picture was kind of irrelevant.

Use your imagination.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont think M2 has mindraped anyone of worthy mension, also his brain is as quick as a supercomputer, but that does not mean he can call upon his powers or physically keep up with anyone just as fast as his mind can calculate it.

Quicker. He can because, whats a basic way to say it, his power IS his brain. Calling on his powers as fast as he can calculate it is what he does. He easily erased 34 minds and teleported them back to the original island while levitating his 25 pkmn to another island.

Originally posted by Burning thought
IF Sephiroth can get off lightspeed against M2, assuming its not an ability that takes long to do then M2 is molten vapour, otherwise Kain just teleports and beheads the little dude.

O.o little dude? Hes 2m tall.... besides that IF shows you cant prove he can do it instantly. Again, fastest of the 5 in mental reactions. Kain wont get the chance without getting TK'd, or the split second Kain reappears M2 would evade it.

Cant team up on M2 with Samus backing him up =]

Originally posted by BloodRain
Quicker. He can because, whats a basic way to say it, his power IS his brain. Calling on his powers as fast as he can calculate it is what he does. He easily erased 34 minds and teleported them back to the original island while levitating his 25 pkmn to another island.



O.o little dude? Hes 2m tall.... besides that IF shows you cant prove he can do it instantly. Again, fastest of the 5 in mental reactions. Kain wont get the chance without getting TK'd, or the split second Kain reappears M2 would evade it.

Cant team up on M2 with Samus backing him up =]

The fuel that powers his abilities is his brain but as I said, all his powers are not done at the speed of a super computer, thats how quick his brain translates info but that does not mean he can call upon his powers just as fast. M2 needs to concentrate for most desired effects. Can you show me him doing something impressive "instantly" as quick as a super computer? you wont be able to....

No I cant prove he can do it instantly, never said I could, I do not support Sephiroth merely use information others have said as food for thought. If the lightspeed is canon and it is activated quickly (likely since isnt Dissisdia a fighting game? moves in those games are usually quick to activate) then he can kill them.

evade it? split second? when has M2 moved so quick, he wouldnt even know Kain had appeared behind him or in his blind spot if he cant see him. His mind powers do not give him cosmic awareness or omnisicence. Kain can activate time powers to slow down his opponents, M2' mind would be slowed but more importantly he would be moving too slowly for Kain not to hit him. his only chance would have been to be lucky enough to have teleported as soon as Kain himself appears.

Can Samus fly? or teleport? if she cannot keep up with teleporters then Kain and M2 could be battling miles away from the others.

She has the speed booster, and nah, Kain would probably eat a Plasma beam right off the bat.

Samus is no threat to Kain, if he can exist as vapourous mist, the plasma beam will do nothing....assuming ofc its fast enough, she can activate it in time and that it has some uber coolio featz. All before the split second Kain is teleported. In all likeliness she will make M2 eat the plasma beam.

Kain's got no reaction time feats, and MewTwo's capable of stopping it. Also, it'd evaporate mist, so no.

pff M2 stop plasma? based on what?

Based on him stopping innumerable special attacks. I accept your concession on plasma > Kain, however.

Oh he stopped special attacks so he can stop plasma sounds like most of your logic....or should I say lack there of

Also lol I never said I was finished with that, I have not seen the plasma yet....it could be slow.


According to:

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam

Its short-range beam of intense heat that can be used to melt ice and weld metals

it being short range sounds like its worthless in this fight. Also evaporating mist wil simply spread it out and make more of it...hardly useful when Kain can go in and out of it at will. Teleport would have him quite easily away from her first shot.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The fuel that powers his abilities is his brain but as I said, all his powers are not done at the speed of a super computer, thats how quick his brain translates info but that does not mean he can call upon his powers just as fast. M2 needs to concentrate for most desired effects. Can you show me him doing something impressive "instantly" as quick as a super computer? you wont be able to....

When destroying the lab some things blew up without him concentrating on it. (note that was before he could control his powers) Stopping Ash's punch, the Gyrados' hyper beam and charizards flamethrower, not the fastest but shows no actions in blocking. Basically that psychic shield will stop Kain if his speed doesnt.
The reactions needed to counter kains teleport; imagine a person knows something behind them, instant turn, M2 reacts faster then a person and would not use his body to defend but his mental powers.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No I cant prove he can do it instantly, never said I could, I do not support Sephiroth merely use information others have said as food for thought. If the lightspeed is canon and it is activated quickly (likely since isnt Dissisdia a fighting game? moves in those games are usually quick to activate) then he can kill them.

''TA: " Dissidia: Final Fantasy"'s story is not directly linked to the "FF" stories these characters come from.''- just something i found.

Originally posted by Burning thought
His mind powers do not give him cosmic awareness or omnisicence.

Catching the bus. Nuff said.

Originally posted by Burning thought
his only chance would have been to be lucky enough to have teleported as soon as Kain himself appears.

A fast teleport, nothing hard about that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Can Samus fly? or teleport? if she cannot keep up with teleporters then Kain and M2 could be battling miles away from the others.

Simple logic for M2.... stay close to Samus if need be.


Can stop the plasma beam like hi did the hyperbeam

Originally posted by BloodRain
''TA: " Dissidia: Final Fantasy"'s story is not directly linked to the "FF" stories these characters come from.''- just something i found.
bull
dissidia IS final fantasy 1, and its explained quite clearly how the other characters are there..

Originally posted by Burning thought
Oh he stopped special attacks so he can stop plasma sounds like most of your logic....or should I say lack there of

Also lol I never said I was finished with that, I have not seen the plasma yet....it could be slow.


According to:

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam

Its short-range beam of intense heat that can be used to melt ice and weld metals

it being short range sounds like its worthless in this fight. Also evaporating mist wil simply spread it out and make more of it...hardly useful when Kain can go in and out of it at will. Teleport would have him quite easily away from her first shot.

Clever, BT, but I see you're focusing on a certain incarnation of the Plasma Beam, which is not even the most consistent one. The Plasma Beam is better known for its ability to pierce enemies, rather than being a short range heat blast. Even with that, if we're using the most current version of Samus, which I assume we do, then the Plasma Beam no longer has a short range.

Pretty sure there was the fact that MewTwo beat an Alakazam in a battle of minds. And Alakazam's have an IQ of 5000. So, MewTwo can mindrape anyone in this thread.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Pretty sure there was the fact that MewTwo beat an Alakazam in a battle of minds. And Alakazam's have an IQ of 5000. So, MewTwo can mindrape anyone in this thread.


Nah his best mindraping feats is prob controlling young children, Kain would be completly immune and M2 has no resistance against mind raping himself. Sephiroth has shown incredible willpower as well so M2 would prob kill itself attempting to go into the minds of either of them since its only practical effort is the minds of children and young women...

The allakazam was beaten by TK, hence the force that crushed his spoons.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Clever, BT, but I see you're focusing on a certain incarnation of the Plasma Beam, which is not even the most consistent one. The Plasma Beam is better known for its ability to pierce enemies, rather than being a short range heat blast. Even with that, if we're using the most current version of Samus, which I assume we do, then the Plasma Beam no longer has a short range.

Can you show the more "consistent" plasma beam? and its feats?

Originally posted by BloodRain
When destroying the lab some things blew up without him concentrating on it. (note that was before he could control his powers) Stopping Ash's punch, the Gyrados' hyper beam and charizards flamethrower, not the fastest but shows no actions in blocking. Basically that psychic shield will stop Kain if his speed doesnt.
The reactions needed to counter kains teleport; imagine a person knows something behind them, instant turn, M2 reacts faster then a person and would not use his body to defend but his mental powers.



''TA: " Dissidia: Final Fantasy"'s story is not directly linked to the "FF" stories these characters come from.''- just something i found.



Catching the bus. Nuff said.



A fast teleport, nothing hard about that.



Simple logic for M2.... stay close to Samus if need be.


Can stop the plasma beam like hi did the hyperbeam

Problem is M2 would not know if Kain has suddenly appeared behind him, he would be too slow to realise before his head is falling from the skies or he is trapped in a sphere of time and his shield stopping certain elements like Garydos' breath does not mean it would protect his soul from the reaver, has he ever had a sword or an object strike it? Kain could also strike it more than once, hell several times if he needs to during which M2 is stuck in a stasis of time.

If he stays close to Samus then he screws over his team mate as well since the time bubble of Kain covers a good 20 meters+ so he would have to be far enough for Kain to kill him with some stealth teleports. Kain can also technically go invisible and his mist form would make useful stealth, Samus and M2 would not automatically realise that a whisp of mist is Kain and start using their full powers against him.

Team 1 has 2 Tkers, each who can TK just as quickly if not quicker than M2 (minor concentration/hand movements) and could distract them while Kain, Kratos or any one of them get into range to destroy the opposing force. Assumimg Sephiroth has materia, the duo focuscing on Kain would mean Sephiroth has more than enough time to toss up some shields, maybe even a summon.

Why do you bother typing out what you already know is tripe?

tripe? lol, it seems an intelligent post to you has to be a LoZ fanboy rant and an actually intelligent post that concerns actual facts is tripe.....

why am I not surpised? this hangover is lasting a long time dude unless ofc your a compulsive drinker or something?

Or something. The hangover's gone, but your post is still tripe.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Nah his best mindraping feats is prob controlling young children, Kain would be completly immune and M2 has no resistance against mind raping himself. Sephiroth has shown incredible willpower as well so M2 would prob kill itself attempting to go into the minds of either of them since its only practical effort is the minds of children and young women...

The allakazam was beaten by TK, hence the force that crushed his spoons.


Either you are the best troll in existence or you really are that stupid. But which one is it? The world may never know.

MewTwo mindwiped everyone on the island so that they would forget the events there ever took place. This includes that Alakazam.

And yeah, the Psychic Battle was a TK battle, but MewTwo overpowered the Alakazam because his mind was stronger.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda

From an interview with the game developers:
-The "FF" series' characters which appear in this game already have their own stories but how will they be introduced?

TA: " Dissidia: Final Fantasy"'s story is not directly linked to the "FF" stories these characters come from. However, we have designed it so that, as you get closer to the game's ending, there will be some kind of link you can see relating to each one of them. Also, although this is a different world and story, the characters will keep their recognisable personalities so fans can rest assured. (Laughs)

First of all, nice copy paste argument, can't come up with your own?

Second of all, unlike what was said in that forum many Final Fantasies have been suggested at and shown by the developers how they link although usually one takes place 2000 years before the start of another. (For example FF7 and FF8 which is basically a precursor to Shinra)

Developers / designers even refer to the entire line of FF as the Final Fantasy universe.

Furthermore: When asked if Dissidia had any true relationship to the Final Fantasy series, he only said that was up to the player to decide.

(Also, I would like to see the true source of this interview)

And the Ultimania confirms it as canon.

'can't come up with your own?' O.o who'd waste time in creating a fake?

The Dissidia Ultimania confirms that Dissidia is a canon prequel/sequel to FF 1, explains that the characters are the same ones from their original universe, and in multiple interviews Nomura has said Dissidia is a true FF installment in the series.

The creators have spoken, Dissidia is Canon.

One more bit of info, the quote Master Yoda is trying to use to discredit Dissidia's canon status cam from Arakawa, who is lower on the Squenix totem pole than Nomura or Kitase, both of whom called it a true Final Fantasy.

This isn't even necessary, however, as the quote cam from an interview before Dissidia was even released in Japan, and in a later interview Arakawa himself said "We were careful to treat Dissidia as a genuine entry to the Final Fantasy series."

BT, when you accept that MewTwo overpowered the Alakazam your arguments will matter.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
BT, when you accept that Link is a supersonic 1000 tonner and my baseless rubbish is immediatley correct your arguments will matter. Then ill actually make an argument myself one of these days and not make a fool of myself which I know you would love because my foolishness and lack of tact in a debate is quickly going from mildly amusing to downright boring! "shines screampastes ass"

fixed

So, BT chooses to continue to iugnore feats and insult the people who best him. Sounds typical.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
So I get sore then start to troll and do not read posts because I live by the good old saying "ignorence is bliss" then I continue to ignore feats and insult the people who best me and the rest of the Link lovers. Sounds typical. oh and zomg link is superonic and a 1000 tonner!

fixed

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yeh, M2 has only experiance in entering the minds of young children or Pokemon, not nearly as clever or as resistant as Kain who at his weakest resisted a vampire who could control small armies of adults, some of them priests. M2 has no resistance because he has shown no resistance, when has someone attempted to enter M2 mind and control him? From what I have seen he is quite easily led, it took him a while to realise he was being controlled by Team rocket.

So his best feat against the mind is against defenceless humans without any resistance? I see....just for referance can you show me this feat please? and age "can" determine cleverness/intelligence, its unlikely Nurse Joy or Ash who are 11 or w/e have half the understanding or intelligence of M2 or powers. Also your sort of crushing your own argument because you claim M2 could overpower them just based on his brain speed.....

Again, yes thats a given but their powers do not just happen as quick as his mind can assess a threat otherwise things would happen beyond we could see or percieve as Super computers are insanely quick, there is no evidence to suggest M2 can activate powers this quick, merely that his powers come from his mind and that he needs concentration/hand movements to get them to work. kain would just move his hand and M2 blood would all rush to his head, killing him quickly....with Samus he could send it to her heart just to be unique.

Sonic who? a pokemon right, your not talking about Super sonic? and no, theres nothing among his powers that anyone has shown me so far that he would suddenly know where Kain is if hes not in sight. It took a temporal paradox to shatter the sword, its carved rock, vampiric metal and other vampires without problem and is rumoured by Vampires to be indestructable ,regardless this shield still has not stopped anything like the reaver OR its powers that affect the soul, not physical forces.

When have either tech or psyche allowes M2/Samus to instantly detect the invisible/weather entities?

Kratos being the lowest threat is true but he still has incredible strength, range in the form of lightning and arrows and can turn enemies to stone.

I dont champion Sephiroth, so I cba to find anything for him but for Kain:
And at 5:51 he throws a fully armoured knight onto a pike with a gesture:

Show me this....and specify, then again Ill also need feats for the Alakazam against his mind being raped. If you cant find feats for any of these characters or Pokemon of actually resisting mind control/wipe before against a foe lesser than M2 then Kain already has one over by far and wide. And mind control>wipe....

stronger at Tk, theres still no feats of him entering anyones mind yet.....

bGgCatOZKis
at 00:13. Ignore the commentary in it, for your safety >.>

That takes out the 'only pkmn and kids' part. No resistance? No on has controlled him, no reason to why he doesnt know how to resist it :/ Took him a time to realise? Wakes up/first conscious moment, blows up lab, goes to rockets for a short while and gets amplifier, destroys that He knew what was happening, got pissed when at the 'not equals' or whtever and left.
''can'' or ''cant'' he did the same to all of them ^ so... Dont remember saying 'brain speed'

'Concentration and hand movements' Charizards flames, M2 didnt even move and they were blocked around him. (shield) M2 can create explosions merely by looking at an object. (lab destruction scene) For Kain to use TK on M2 it would come down to the stronger TKer, oh and its not the vampire.

Yes.... Sonic the pokemon It was stated here on KMC that Mewtwo destroys Sonic. Thanks for the sword info. The ''not stopped anything like... means he cant'' parts is the same as the tree falling with no one around. Just because something hasnt been seen, but is clearly in the potential to do so, M2s powers and the tree making a sound, does not mean it cant be done.

Not 100% sure on the effects of Samus' visor, hoping a bigger Metroid fan can fill that in. Every pkmn in the series detects when somethings wrong around them, think its referenced in the second movie. Average pkmn < M2.

Vid 1: He uses a glowing version of 'the force'. That feat can be done by M2 (and Darth Vader >w&gt
Vid 2: So he uses hand gestures and concentrates on the move?

Not sure what your asking from him, but the 'lesser' pkmn drowzee controlled eg; the same Pikachu, who overcame it. If you say controle>wipe and a low pkmn drowzee can contole them, that means that M2 can control minds `,`

Show Kains strongest TK feats besides the Sith strangle hold, be very disappointing if thats the height of it Doubt it can go near M2s power.

Btw this is only the 'mindrape', M2 can beat him in others ways besides screwing Kains mind over

One trick pony, I see.

Edit: lolwtf worst commentary evar.

IMO, Mewtwo aint that great if you got psychic powers as well to help defend against it. No one on team 1 has anything close to Mewtwo's level of mental power and ability, however. Team one is destroyed but Seph may stand a moderate chance. He has some psychic powers, but Kain is a sack of brix tied to the legs of Team 1. He has weak psychic powers when compared to Seph and is far below Kratos in physical ability. Dead weight really.

Originally posted by BloodRain
bGgCatOZKis
at 00:13. Ignore the commentary in it, for your safety >.>

That takes out the 'only pkmn and kids' part. No resistance? No on has controlled him, no reason to why he doesnt know how to resist it :/ Took him a time to realise? Wakes up/first conscious moment, blows up lab, goes to rockets for a short while and gets amplifier, destroys that He knew what was happening, got pissed when at the 'not equals' or whtever and left.
''can'' or ''cant'' he did the same to all of them ^ so... Dont remember saying 'brain speed'

'Concentration and hand movements' Charizards flames, M2 didnt even move and they were blocked around him. (shield) M2 can create explosions merely by looking at an object. (lab destruction scene) For Kain to use TK on M2 it would come down to the stronger TKer, oh and its not the vampire.

Yes.... Sonic the pokemon It was stated here on KMC that Mewtwo destroys Sonic. Thanks for the sword info. The ''not stopped anything like... means he cant'' parts is the same as the tree falling with no one around. Just because something hasnt been seen, but is clearly in the potential to do so, M2s powers and the tree making a sound, does not mean it cant be done.

Not 100% sure on the effects of Samus' visor, hoping a bigger Metroid fan can fill that in. Every pkmn in the series detects when somethings wrong around them, think its referenced in the second movie. Average pkmn < M2.

Vid 1: He uses a glowing version of 'the force'. That feat can be done by M2 (and Darth Vader >w&gt
Vid 2: So he uses hand gestures and concentrates on the move?

Not sure what your asking from him, but the 'lesser' pkmn drowzee controlled eg; the same Pikachu, who overcame it. If you say controle>wipe and a low pkmn drowzee can contole them, that means that M2 can control minds `,`

Show Kains strongest TK feats besides the Sith strangle hold, be very disappointing if thats the height of it Doubt it can go near M2s power.

Btw this is only the 'mindrape', M2 can beat him in others ways besides screwing Kains mind over

Your tactics are crude but you have an argument which is refreshing amongst the recent tide of fanboyism from the Luv4Link team.

Fair enough, youve proven he can affect adults although the video was horrible certainly the commentary and was not typically clear ill allow that. He wouldnt know how to resist it because theres no indiciation he has the technique, hes never had to protect his own mind nor shown any evidence that he would ever be able to so he is fair game for Kain to mind control/mainpulate. He is still controlled for a fair while by Giovani or w/e his name is, it takes him time to realise he has some actual will of his own.

But he knew Charizard was going to do it, Tk on the other hand is invisible, especially inside his body. He can hardly protect himself against blood manipulation, first ive never seen him able to manipulate inside his own body which would require very intricute Tk that Kain has displayed continually (as its the main way he mainps blood and drinks it) but M2 has usually shown Tk in the form of powerful force, e.g. crushing other physical Tk users such as Allakazam. Also lab destruction required him to concentrate, this was obvious when his eyes glowed, it took him a few seconds to bring his full strength to bare on the facility. Too long considering once Kain starts spraying his blood out of his body hes not going to be doing much but dieing.

I agree completly but M2 shield has never resisted soul based attacks, the shield from what I have seen is purely based on telekinetic force, not spiritual so its hardly going to protect his soul....what is your argument in favour of it doing so?

Can you show me this part of the movie please, so I can see. Also its still far fetched to claim a pokemon will suddenly know where Kain is or if he is mist or not....not when theres other destractions such as Kains 2 team members.

yeh Kain immediatley takes a target under his power of TK like he did with moebius but he uses his hands to direct his foe. In this case, it could either be M2 OR his blood cells. I cant see how M2 can survive his blood suddenly being sprayed throughout his body.

So pikachu was controlled and overcame this control? also thats not likely, M2 is far superior but the difference between power and the techniques to use it are vast, M2 has shown mind wipe, lesser control but hes not shown control over anyone who could technically resist it mentally. Also Pikachu has no psi powers and as far as I know, has very little understanding of it so its likely Drowsy is a very weak mentalist or it was PIS.

Thats prob Kains strongest in actual physical damage, Kains TK is based around movement of a target. Not in physical force, if M2 fires a phyiscal force, Kain grabs him in an instant to control his foe. Kains strongest TK is based in the fact he can control liquids/cells such as blood, few opponents have protection against this, even M2.

Kain is immune to mind rape as he has shown in his weakest form. But Kains other powers such as those over time, blood and souls are far more menacing.

Except MewTwo's shown TK so fine he can literally assemble working pokeballs from nothing, and control the weather across an entire planet casually. Kain's TK has nothing on MEwTwo's, your assertion it does is laughable, and the fact you continue to bash Link supporteres in a thread with no Link in it is hilarious. Need some ointment for that butthurt?

Your getting bashed about and laughed at in other threads yet you claim I am butthurt because I find your 1000 ton supersonic Link amusing as well as your funny little band?

And none of those M2 that you just brought out of the air do not help him protect himself from being gibbed from the inside by Kains Tk, nor give him any defences against such a fate...try again....

Once again ignoring that superior TK in terms of both fine movements and sheer power means MewTwo can totally negate Kain's. MewTwo did just that against an Alakazam effortlessly, and Alakazam dwarfs Kain's power by many hundred fold.

Excuse me? how....when did he do anything like negating movements inside his body? you dont even know if he can call upon his own Tk to go inside his own body, what a far fetched assumption indeed.....

Nah, Alakazam showed physical TK, Kains using control of blood, the immediate moment Kain starts M2 would likely die, almost nothing (theres definaltey no feat showing M2 can) can survive its own blood flowing quickly through its body, likely into its heart, brain etc

Once again, you're wrong. MewTwo's TK can reach across the entire planet and overpower opposing TK much stronger than Kain's, and somehow he can't stop Kain's puny TK? mariofacepalm

No because Kains Tk enters his body which he has never been able to do himself. Incredible really but despite how weak Kains Tk is physically, it can work at minute levels and cause problems for opponents who have zero defecnes against such. M2 has nothing to stop Kain from doing so and you know what happesn if he tries to? he ends up dieing because his own forceful and powerful Tk would likely do more damage to his own body than Kain.....

So he is bust if Kain gets the fraction of a second he would need to internally gib M2...../thread

Lol. So MewTwo can TK such minute things as *atoms* to assemble working pokeballs from air, and TK the atmosphere of a planet, but he can't counteract Kain's TK? I lol'd, lol'd hard. Kain's TK probably isn't even strong enough to affect the blood flow of a creature as strong as MewTwo anyway, so your argument is invalid to begin with. MewTwo's heart pumps harder than Kain's entire body can work.

Expain the atoms part with more than words, show a video of him Tking atoms.....unless ofc your assuming a good few things? (likely, knowing you....)

And Tking the atmosphere of the planet is irrelvent here....I dont see how you cant understnad that tbh.

lol the blood flow of a creature as strong as M2...wtf lol....stop reaching silly rofl....

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
MewTwo did just that against an Alakazam effortlessly, and Alakazam dwarfs Kain's power by many hundred fold. That should have sealed the deal for this whole Kain VS M2 thing. But good points are always ignored...

MewTwo's physicly stronger than many pokemon with strength feats on levels so silly Kratos would envy them.

But yeah, No End N Site is right, I destroyed your argument posts ago, BT. Time to stop wasting words on you.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
MewTwo's physicly stronger than many pokemon with strength feats on levels so silly Kratos would envy them.

But yeah, No End N Site is right, I destroyed your argument posts ago, BT. Time to stop wasting words on you.

Yes and thats going to help his blood flow.... reach moar!

No youve never destroyed an argument of mine, in your own mind some of your nonsense counts as evidence but unfortunaltey in truth they are just useless bits and piecies youve tried to toss together that are irrelvent.
Originally posted by No End N Site
That should have sealed the deal for this whole Kain VS M2 thing. But good points are always ignored...

Kains not trying to crush M2 with phyiscal Tk though....which is why its irrelvent but we know your trolling dont we...yesz

Do you understand English? M2 is basically gonna cut Kain's TK off, PERIOD. HE WILL BE UNABLE TO USE ANY SORT OF TK AT ALL. You should be the last person callin' anyone a troll. Everyone here can vouch for you being the CEO of The Trolls corporation.

Hes never done that, M2 Tk works on forceful pushes and based on his choice of attack againt Mew (shadowballs?) his forceful Tk is fairly weak, bending Allakazams spoons? pff, thats nothing.....

Kain would in a near instant have M2 blood spraying out of his body or flying through his heart, his body would just shut down with the shock of such an experiance and if he attempted to combat Kains Tk he would be killed by his own Tk defence. I think you my young friend are the one who cannot understand English, heres plain Enlgish: Show M2 simply stopping TK, certainly from inside his body and I may take you seriously. Otherwise your childish complaining is not worth my time...

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain would in a near instant have M2 blood spraying out of his body or flying through his heart, his body would just shut down with the shock of such an experiance and if he attempted to combat Kains Tk he would be killed by his own Tk defence. I think you my young friend are the one who cannot understand English, heres plain Enlgish: Show M2 simply stopping TK, certainly from inside his body and I may take you seriously. Otherwise your childish complaining is not worth my time...

Lol, uh-oh. Now we're talking, lmao.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hes never done that, M2 Tk works on forceful pushes and based on his choice of attack againt Mew (shadowballs?) his forceful Tk is fairly weak, bending Allakazams spoons? pff, thats nothing.....

Kain would in a near instant have M2 blood spraying out of his body or flying through his heart, his body would just shut down with the shock of such an experiance and if he attempted to combat Kains Tk he would be killed by his own Tk defence. I think you my young friend are the one who cannot understand English, heres plain Enlgish: Show M2 simply stopping TK, certainly from inside his body and I may take you seriously.
You can not prove anything you just said, your creatin' limitations based on your fanboyizm (as usual). The only thing you have proven is that you know nothing about Kain's opponents, once again, as usual.


Originally posted by Burning thought
Otherwise your childish complaining is not worth my time... Yet you respond to my posts anyway. The mass of irony you have created will leave hole in the universe.

Wow BT, watch the ****ing movie, just walk away, or learn the phrase "I am wrong" or "You are correct." Just do something intelligent.

Originally posted by No End N Site
You can not prove anything you just said, your creatin' limitations based on your fanboyizm (as usual). The only thing you have proven is that you know nothing about Kain's opponents, once again, as usual.


Yet you respond to my posts anyway. The mass of irony you have created will leave hole in the universe.

Such as what exactly? most of what I have just said is seen in M2 films, hell maybe the first vid in the M2 respect thread and in my own bio where I keep some bits and bobs on funny little people on this forum, a Kain vid of controlling blood is there.

I respond to most peoples posts because as shamefully ignorant or obviously delusional some people may be it passes some time to argue something or other while I wait for something more important to happen. I hardly come to KMC for an intelligent debate lol, I know by now theres not going to be much of that here, ofc not in this section at least.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Wow BT, watch the ****ing movie, just walk away, or learn the phrase "I am wrong" or "You are correct." Just do something intelligent.



Thats the best slander you can come up with, your silly little arguments fall to dust and you cannot bakc them up so you have to pretty much ask me to say your correct?

I knew you were insecure but hell, not this badly.

Someone asked for the tk feats of Sephiroth, seeing as Sephiroth has more of something called 'Will' (Which he can use to influence things much like TK) I will use all the feats for it.

Pulling part of a building down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s1VyV3OP4Q - 4:22

Creating a realistic illusionary world for 3 people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIS7PnDdPqc - 9:40 TO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dMjfXjz2dk - 9:27

Knocks out four people and creates an illusion for a fifth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOSV9E4DpW0 - 1:00 - 2:28

Same video, he either shows teleporting other people or just making the three shinras not see Cloud and co. - 2:30

Also stops Red and Cloud from hearing Tifa.

5:55 Levitates Cloud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRTqyeYSgIY

Pulls apart the floor.

Brings Cloud and party to the heart of the planet, most probably knocking them out first. (Waking up, Clouds wierd dream thing beforehand)

Levitates eight people, knocks them back several times and controls thier bodies.

And the most important one of all, he is holding back Holy.

Which you can see in action here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCc7QelYyaY

(You can also see Omnislash in it's first canon use.)

(Watch from 5:00 to see Holy pushing an 1800 tonne Airship many many kilometers from the heart of the planet to fairly high into the sky)

You also see Holy contend with, then fail against Meteor because Sephiroth held it back just a little to long (Making Holy not only inneffective but the combined power of Meteor and Holy is apparently now capable of destroying the entire planet)

Originally posted by Burning thought
Post at 12:56

Mind control has come up in an episode or 7 where the pkmn resists it, but im not going to look through the 600 eps for them. And even if he gets the chance to get to M2s mind, how will he manipulate a mind as powerful as his? I see where you're coming from with Giovani but its not a psychic feat, only a crime boss manipulating someone by offering power. That was M2 right after 'birth/activation', and made a poor judgement based lack of better knowledge at the time.

Ill refer to ScreamPastes post on creating the pokeball from atoms. The balls them self being complex work (converting a 15m or a 1ton pkmn into matter and storing it in a pokeball that can be the size of a golf ball) combined with his colossal powers and intelligence, its rational to say if he had to there's nothing stopping him from manipulation his inner body. The lab destruction was him using his powers for the very first time before was able to fully use or even focus his power.

If the sword is tangible then it can be held back by TK. Especially if it needs to make contact. Sorry, im not gonna search the whole movie waiting to hear if the scenes in that movie or another, take too long and a waste of effort trying. In truth I did forget about his team mates, so chances for Kain to successfully land a damaging move increases.... if it wasn't for this; In this scenario your'e saying Kain uses a sneak attack on M2. Despite the fact that being in a fight and one with the odds against him, M2 will be on full alert, heightening his powers and spacial awareness. Sneaking would be rendered useless against him. Kratos is no threat, like you said with Samus, chances are he cant keep up with M2/Kain/Seph (and even Samus for her jumping, speed and range).
What's to say M2 cant override Kains TK? Very logical feat, weaker TK gets nulled by stronger TK.

Actually a specially trained and amplified Drowzee, but that's getting off the topic. Using mass mind wipe and mass forced teleportation is not an easy act, and a mind wipe involves safely erasing specific memorise to a certain time without going too far or damaging the subjects brain.(<- Sci-fi and some medical info) Kains strongest in physical is M2s weakest physical in his weakest form. If he can create a storm with a flick of his wrist, what can he do if he focuses a full powered attack on Kain? Ends with blood rain.

Hes faster and better at teleporting, can TK a catagory 3(?) hurricane with no sign of effort. Coming from a creature who has the ability to destroy the planet. Not to mention the 100 other moves besides psychic hes able to use. (Around 50 of those are useful) And about his TK, in both videos you posted Kain grabbed his opponent with an obvious hand movement. Any way for you to show that he can use the same skill with less movements? Or where it shows Kain manipulating blood to rush to their head or heart.

''Brings Cloud and party to the heart of the planet, most probably knocking them out first.'' -Was it Sephiroth that caused that?
''Levitates eight people, knocks them back several times and controls thier bodies.'' -Average TK here. Didn't really controls the bodies, more likely he paralysed their movements.
''And the most important one of all, he is holding back Holy.'' -True its the strongest feat posted. But not the strongest thing here.

Originally posted by BloodRain
''Brings Cloud and party to the heart of the planet, most probably knocking them out first.'' -Was it Sephiroth that caused that?


If you have a plausible theory of how it happened that didn't require Sephiroth I am glad to hear it.

Somehow the ground came apart, so either Sephiroth was keeping it up for Jenova-DEATH and when it died let the platform fall catching Cloud and co, and knocking them all out bringing them to the floating platforms or it was staying up on it's own and Sephiroth brought it down taking cloud and co with it.

(My guess would be it was staying up on it's own)


Originally posted by BloodRain
''Levitates eight people, knocks them back several times and controls thier bodies.'' -Average TK here. Didn't really controls the bodies, more likely he paralysed their movements.

I am not quite sure, Cid did specifically say: "My...My body...I can't control my body......Uuugh!?"

(They were also flailing about as Cid and co talk, so my guess is Sephiroth was having some fun)

Originally posted by BloodRain
''And the most important one of all, he is holding back Holy.'' -True its the strongest feat posted. But not the strongest thing here.


If you think assembling a pokeball is a good feat, Sephiroth created three beings using his will when he was dead. He also gave them clothes and weapons.

Edited: My quote editing made some wierd errors.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Sephiroth can't go lightspeed anymore than he can hit someone with the power of an exploding star. Lulz. And people call me a fanboy. I'm pretty tame caompared to such outlandish, and entirely baseless claims. Both of which defy everything about FF7.

Except we aren't claiming it, the developers are. Sorry

Originally posted by ScreamPaste Remember that whole summoning a meteor and waiting a month thing Seph does in FF7? KIND OF MOOT if you can use the power of an exploding star! And that attack doesn't kill Cloud.. WAIT! Maybe Cloud is SUPAR DURABLEZ! He could just jump into space and tank the meteor hit for the planet at no damage. Ohwait, no. Cloud would have been killed by Shin Bahumat if Aeris dead ass hadn't helped him.. WAIT! Maybe Bahumat was going easy on all that fragile metal scaffolding?.

Haha, funny.

A. He didn't want to completely obliterate the planet. He wanted to merely wound it so he could bathe in more lifestream than he would know what to do with.
B. Sephiroth has never in canon used the ability. Doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Also it has been given a canon description, you just don't want to accept it. (Also by the developers.)
C. When did it take a month?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The "light speed" movement is a single, obviously hyperbolic and isolated statement which applies only to one, probably non-cannon special move in Dissidia. He doesn't move that fast. If he did, he wouldn't need to pilot a plane-Ohhh waaait. Wasn't that one of those big plans he had? You only need to go mach 22 to escape the gravity of a planet, and he couldn't even do that. Cloud can react to Sephiroth's movements, Cloud is OBVIOUSLY FASTER THAN LIGHT! Ohwait, Cloud gets shot in AC. Hm. MAYBE THE BULLET WAS FTL!?


A. It is canon, so you better accept it.
B. No he doesn't need to pilot a planet, however he wants to. Pilot planets, which I don't believe MewTwo is capable of?
C. Sephiroth has never used his full abilities on Cloud, otherwise he would be dead.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
...No, FFanboys. No.


Whatevs, everything can be backed up in all the Ultimania books.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Why touchy?
The platform didn't seem weak when they were fighting.
It kind of matters, because if I am wrong and Sephiroth had nothing to do with that it means that isn't his feat!

Cid did specifically say: "My...My body...I can't control my body......Uuugh!?"
If that doesn't mean they couldn't control thier body, I don't know if anyone could possibly say they couldn't control thier body.
Red XIII: "My front legs......My hind legs......My tail's about to tear off!!"
I am fairly certain Sephiroth had control of them who else would because it certainly wasn't them.

They were clearly moving, and it was clearly stated that they were not moving themselves.

So you agree Sephiroth brought them down onto the platforms?

So you think creating a pokeball is harder than creating three distinct beings each with different personalities, builds and looks and different weapons and clothes for them. Creating a brain must be a sinche compared to a pokeball.
Here you go:
You see it happening a lot better if you have the bluray, in this you can just barely see the clothes still being created.


Sorry, it seemed like you were annoyed. Yeah but usually a whole mess of crap like that happens in games when the boss dies. Could be effected by the place they were, may look into that. Ok ill give you and Seph that feat >.> but it doesnt much besides destruction feats like ''Pulling part of a building down'' and Tk feats like when he held them.

I saw him say it. If Seph used his TK to, for instance, grab hold of their nerves, neither of them would control the body but it may still move/twitch. This ability is on par with M2 holding someone up. They have no control of their body but it still move slightly. (My guess is the nerves)
To prove what I said is true, look at all the characters. The big cat moves in a flop/hop motion, Cloud and Cid flail but at different speeds, and Vincent doesn't move at all. Its just their character animation for this panic-like state.

Well i motioned for PIS and the rest was sarcasm. Meh either way it still isnt much of a feat even if he did.

Creating a hand sized pocket dimension-esk object that can turn a creature the size of humpback whale into energy and containing it, plus his were more advanced then the regular kind. Pretty hard to make 25 of them at once. OHH the remnants, why didn't you say so. They are born from Sephs will and embody different traits of him, so he didn't specifically create them. Did manifest into them though.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Sorry, it seemed like you were annoyed. Yeah but usually a whole mess of crap like that happens in games when the boss dies. Could be effected by the place they were, may look into that. Ok ill give you and Seph that feat >.> but it doesnt much besides destruction feats like ''Pulling part of a building down'' and Tk feats like when he held them.

Not annoyed, don't know if anyone knows this but I enjoy debating. (If you can call this debating )

Originally posted by BloodRain
I saw him say it. If Seph used his TK to, for instance, grab hold of their nerves, neither of them would control the body but it may still move/twitch. This ability is on par with M2 holding someone up. They have no control of their body but it still move slightly. (My guess is the nerves)
To prove what I said is true, look at all the characters. The big cat moves in a flop/hop motion, Cloud and Cid flail but at different speeds, and Vincent doesn't move at all. Its just their character animation for this panic-like state.

Those are all valid points, but technically if he could grab hold of their nerves he could control them yes?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Well i motioned for PIS and the rest was sarcasm. Meh either way it still isnt much of a feat even if he did.

Well, it is a fairly good feat though, moving over 400+ kilograms of weight with Will alone...

Originally posted by BloodRain
Creating a hand sized pocket dimension-esk object that can turn a creature the size of humpback whale into energy and containing it, plus his were more advanced then the regular kind. Pretty hard to make 25 of them at once.

I admit that is pretty crazy, but I wager it is as difficult or more difficult to create a human brain.

Originally posted by BloodRain
OHH the remnants, why didn't you say so. They are born from Sephs will and embody different traits of him, so he didn't specifically create them. Did manifest into them though.

Yes, Sephiroth created them with his Will. I already said that.

Go define: Manifest in google. While you are at it define: Manifestation

He did specifically create them, in fact the developers gave us his exact thoughts in On the Way to a Smile. Which clearly states he consciously created three agents because he didn't know what he looked like.

Each one does have resembling traits such as cockiness and cruelty, but each one was different.

Anyway bedtime for me, picking up my new computer tomorrow! (Er today xD).

Originally posted by BloodRain
Mind control has come up in an episode or 7 where the pkmn resists it, but im not going to look through the 600 eps for them. And even if he gets the chance to get to M2s mind, how will he manipulate a mind as powerful as his? I see where you're coming from with Giovani but its not a psychic feat, only a crime boss manipulating someone by offering power. That was M2 right after 'birth/activation', and made a poor judgement based lack of better knowledge at the time.

Ill refer to ScreamPastes post on creating the pokeball from atoms. The balls them self being complex work (converting a 15m or a 1ton pkmn into matter and storing it in a pokeball that can be the size of a golf ball) combined with his colossal powers and intelligence, its rational to say if he had to there's nothing stopping him from manipulation his inner body. The lab destruction was him using his powers for the very first time before was able to fully use or even focus his power.

If the sword is tangible then it can be held back by TK. Especially if it needs to make contact. Sorry, im not gonna search the whole movie waiting to hear if the scenes in that movie or another, take too long and a waste of effort trying. In truth I did forget about his team mates, so chances for Kain to successfully land a damaging move increases.... if it wasn't for this; In this scenario your'e saying Kain uses a sneak attack on M2. Despite the fact that being in a fight and one with the odds against him, M2 will be on full alert, heightening his powers and spacial awareness. Sneaking would be rendered useless against him. Kratos is no threat, like you said with Samus, chances are he cant keep up with M2/Kain/Seph (and even Samus for her jumping, speed and range).
What's to say M2 cant override Kains TK? Very logical feat, weaker TK gets nulled by stronger TK.

Actually a specially trained and amplified Drowzee, but that's getting off the topic. Using mass mind wipe and mass forced teleportation is not an easy act, and a mind wipe involves safely erasing specific memorise to a certain time without going too far or damaging the subjects brain.(<- Sci-fi and some medical info) Kains strongest in physical is M2s weakest physical in his weakest form. If he can create a storm with a flick of his wrist, what can he do if he focuses a full powered attack on Kain? Ends with blood rain.

Hes faster and better at teleporting, can TK a catagory 3(?) hurricane with no sign of effort. Coming from a creature who has the ability to destroy the planet. Not to mention the 100 other moves besides psychic hes able to use. (Around 50 of those are useful) And about his TK, in both videos you posted Kain grabbed his opponent with an obvious hand movement. Any way for you to show that he can use the same skill with less movements? Or where it shows Kain manipulating blood to rush to their head or heart.

Oh no I did not mean Giovani actually mind controlled him, I was simply saying despite M2 mental advantages he can be easily "led" such as by characters such as Giovani and Kain could od the same, enter his mind and make him do things. His mentally strong but not defensive of his mind. I dont think M2 will be able to survive Kain taking his mind, he can even replace m2 soul with his own, when Kain leaves his body will dissolve.

but can this be proven? he seemingly created pokeballs but do we know this? do we know he created them out of atoms, and that simply means he can attempt to push against Kains control, its useless because M2 will either go into shock and die from this happening as soon as Kain starts and if he tries to stop him, he will still be killed by his own probing.

Because M2 has only defeated/pushed back TK, I have not seen him completly nullify a character from using TK....also Kain as I said being invisible or simply being out of sight would hardly make M2 look 360 around himself just to find one of his 3 opponents, he would have to be extremely over paranoid. Kain could in the time it takes for M2 to turn and find him have him under TK or fire a spell.

Thats only if he can focus this before Kain telepots, then he would have to focus again. This would be impossible because with a flick of his hand Kain could spray M2 blood all around his body, then it goes back to the argument on if M2 can actually protect his body. M2 can either be on the defensive and look for Kain if he teleports nad perhaps miss a blade beam/fireball or spell from Sephiroth OR he can attempt focusing on Kain only to have Kain flick his wrists and manip his blood/take his mind.

faster and better at teleporting? can you show me the faster teleports please? M2 seems to move around by levitation a huge amount so I cant see how his teleport would be his favoured mode of travel in this match. not sure if Kain can do it in less movements and how he controls the blood is irrelvent, M2 would still die from having his blood manipulated, concerning rushing the blood to his heart ill simply go back to your idea of a "tree falling in a forest" whereby its entirely logically possible that Kain who can move blood towards himself, could easily send the blood somewhere else. Both movements of blood would still cause shock and trauma and possible kill M2.

Dissidia's canonicity(sp?) is a very delicate topic IMO. While we have some evidences pointing to it being canon, there are so many inconsistencies(explained with the lame "A wizard(Cosmos/Chaos) did it", that it's hard to consider it as such.

Aerith has the potential to make her own remnants using the Lifestream. If shes not near his power and she is able to create them, it shows that its not that hard of a feat. For those of you that ive in the Lifestream)

But remember Aerith was an Ancient. She had a deep connection to the Planet even before dying, and after that, she only increased in power(to the point she was able to destroy the J-cells with her holy rain, something never done before by any Ancient(they were able to seal Jenova, but not destroy her cells like Aerith did)).
And even with all that power, she still didn't knew if she could do the same thing Sephiroth did("The woman askerd herself if she could do the same".

Stating that "Aerith could do it too" doesn't make Sephiroth's feat less impressive.




And to be frank, I think Mewtwo is overrated. From what I remember(I could be wrong though), his mental abilities only afected normal humans and some weak Pokemons. And IIRC the storm he formed affected only an ocean, not the entire planet(correct me if I'm wrong).

Saying that Mewtwo could mind-screw someone of Sephiroth's mental power(a guy who survived all the consciousness of the Lifestream trying to dilute his soul/mind after he fell in it, who had a mental-battle with friggin Jenova and won(taking control of her), and who was able to hold back the ultimate white magic of his world even without a physical body after his Safer body was destroyed), is pretty laughable.

Not to be rude, but you remember wrong. Mewtwo mind raped (Gary's?) Alakazam with the same effort it takes to breath in the first movie.

Bulbapedia states that Mewtwo can summon storms powerful enough to destroy the planet.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Again, literally he was in his first hour of consciousness and made a mistake. Giovani offered power, M2 got said power and up until he left only gave him a few pkmn in return this point has nothing to do with anything. In pkmn stats his 'special defence' is in the top 19.26% of all pkmn, not the highest but good enough. Especially that he is substantially buffed in the movies.
We can see him making them. Can you think of another way? Cant just buy those things. M2 goes into shock from a psychic conflict or dies from his own probing...? 1. Dont see a way for that to happen. 2. I think M2s smart enough to know what to an what not to do if in your own body.

Kain activates his TK by aiming his hand to the desired target, to nullify him from using it all M2 has to do is TK hold him. (Or use 'Disable' on him, but that would be too easy) How would pushing back the TK not work here... Focusing to stop a sword slash, besides the initial teleport there's nothing new here. And with a simple glance at Kain M2 can get him in a TK hold and hes done for. For all we know the second spinal cord/ nerve tube can make this blood feat not as dangerous.
M2s is the calm type, not the paranoid type. Kratos is on the ground and Seph main assault is in close quarters so its predictable where he will come from. Whats Kains mode of flight anyway? (Could throw in the 'Detect' move here, again making this too easy)

1. M2s also in the top 1.2% for speed (6th fastest, faster then a 'mach 2' bird), speeds one of his best attributes. 2. Didnt say''faster teleporting'', even if it that may be true. 3. He doesnt need to teleport because of the levitation and speed, telepoting is used when needed. Which now is a good time for.
Me saying it for a shield blocking a tangible sword is no where near the same as you saying ''Because he can move blood to him to take a drink he can use it at range to make the blood do anything he wants.'' Thats changing the purpose of Kains ability.

Mewtwo with his blue barrier around him, full powered psychic TK attacks and superior speed. Thats not all he can do but that would be all he needs. Samus so far hasnt had to do much, her entering this so far 3 on 1 fight seals it.

Originally posted by SHM

Not going back into the Dissidia thing >_> Doesnt make his feat less impressive, but he didnt get the power from himself. (Now that I think about it im not sure how creating the remnant effects this fight). Hey if a weak pkmn can control an average person, and M2 is many times over stronger then said average pkmn, including his mental powers. By this logic if someone has above human resistance, M2 will still take affect. Seph/Kain do have a high resistance, still not impossible to get to. M2s attempt =?= Kain/Seph resistance, no way any of us will have the definite answer. Safe to say with the height of his strength its not hopeless chance.

And btw i never said to K1ll3r that Seph would get mind-screwed by M2, was only looking into his feats.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Doesnt make his feat less impressive, but he didnt get the power from himself. (Now that I think about it im not sure how creating the remnant effects this fight).

But manipulating parts of the Lifestream is one of his powers. The same way a Jedi or Sith manipulates the Force.
Actually, the Lifestream and the Force are very similar.



That's where we disagree. Because IMO overpowering the minds of the Lifestream(the consciousness of an entire planet), absorbing the knowledge of the Ancients(an entire race), and overpowering Jenova(a creature well-known for her/it's insane mind powers), is FAR more impressive than overpowering a few human minds and a single psychic Pokemon.
The scale between Sephiroth's feats and Mewtwo's, is too big IMO.

Sephiroth did all that.. and HE CAN SUMMON CLOUDS!

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Not to be rude, but you remember wrong. Mewtwo mind raped (Gary's?) Alakazam with the same effort it takes to breath in the first movie.

Sorry, but compared to everything Sephiroth did(stated in my previous post), I don't find this impressive.



A Wikipedia about Pokemon? This is your 'credible' source of evidence?!

And even if that's true... FFVII itself states that Sephiroth can, and actually was, holding back a magic powerful enough to destroy the planet. While fighting the party... And summoning Meteor... And doing alot of other things at the same time.


Still thinking Mewtwo is overrated.

Even if he is overrated, not nearly as overrated as Sephiroth. MewTwo did create a storm with his mind capable of destroying the planet in his movie.

Kain. The field. Solo's. Who wants popcorn?

Kain. The field. Lying unconscious. Eats popcorn and watches team 2 sail to victory.

mewtwo breaks samus in half because she's human and proceeds to do the same with team one.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Sephiroth did all that.. and HE CAN SUMMON CLOUDS!
OMG I'm so scared

And overrated doesn't change who wins a fight. lol

Originally posted by Burning thought
Can you show the more "consistent" plasma beam? and its feats?

As a matter of fact, I can show the more "consistent" plasma beam, from the very page you got the information on the beam in the first place.

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam#Appearances

The 2d Samus sprites are all firing plasma beams. Now, to be fair, some of the sprites shown are plasma beams along with other beams, but since most of Samus's arsenal can be used cumulatively, it doesn't really make much difference.

aSISk-l2Yoc

This video showcases the before and after effects of acquiring the plasma beam (the beam itself is found around 2:30). You can clearly see that the beam passes through enemies while damaging at the same time.

M2 TK hold them all while Samus goes and screw attacks them to bits. Or Zero lazer

Originally posted by BloodRain
Kain. The field. Lying unconscious. Eats popcorn and watches team 2 sail to victory.

unconcious how exactly? Kain had to have the means of his very excistence torn out of him to be knocked out for what had to be at most a few minutes....not that anyone here can do this.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Again, literally he was in his first hour of consciousness and made a mistake. Giovani offered power, M2 got said power and up until he left only gave him a few pkmn in return this point has nothing to do with anything. In pkmn stats his 'special defence' is in the top 19.26% of all pkmn, not the highest but good enough. Especially that he is substantially buffed in the movies.
We can see him making them. Can you think of another way? Cant just buy those things. M2 goes into shock from a psychic conflict or dies from his own probing...? 1. Dont see a way for that to happen. 2. I think M2s smart enough to know what to an what not to do if in your own body.

Kain activates his TK by aiming his hand to the desired target, to nullify him from using it all M2 has to do is TK hold him. (Or use 'Disable' on him, but that would be too easy) How would pushing back the TK not work here... Focusing to stop a sword slash, besides the initial teleport there's nothing new here. And with a simple glance at Kain M2 can get him in a TK hold and hes done for. For all we know the second spinal cord/ nerve tube can make this blood feat not as dangerous.
M2s is the calm type, not the paranoid type. Kratos is on the ground and Seph main assault is in close quarters so its predictable where he will come from. Whats Kains mode of flight anyway? (Could throw in the 'Detect' move here, again making this too easy)

1. M2s also in the top 1.2% for speed (6th fastest, faster then a 'mach 2' bird), speeds one of his best attributes. 2. Didnt say''faster teleporting'', even if it that may be true. 3. He doesnt need to teleport because of the levitation and speed, telepoting is used when needed. Which now is a good time for.
Me saying it for a shield blocking a tangible sword is no where near the same as you saying ''Because he can move blood to him to take a drink he can use it at range to make the blood do anything he wants.'' Thats changing the purpose of Kains ability.

Mewtwo with his blue barrier around him, full powered psychic TK attacks and superior speed. Thats not all he can do but that would be all he needs. Samus so far hasnt had to do much, her entering this so far 3 on 1 fight seals it.




How are you sure this mistake could not occur? M2 still as I siad has no mental defences, simple fact it seems. So he is easily going to be mind controlled and his fair game for Kain to use on the battlefield, it will quickl become 4 vs Samus.... How can you not seen how M2 would die from shock/probing of his own blood flooding his system or if were not going to think outside the box, pouring out of his nose/mouth or trying to escape through his body towards Kain? he cant.....and if he tried to go into his own body which is a very big assumption if he can even do it, he would kill himself because his Tk is even stronger than Kains.

m2 cannot Tk "hold" Kain because Kain can teleport/mist form, thus breaking the hold. Because first TK in Lok seems to work differently, its not coming from Kain in a beam or wave that can be pushed back, Kains powers appear on the body of his opponent and he throws them around, if M2 wants to forcefully push the TK from his own body (if he can) then he will end up tearing himself in half from the inside if you claim his Tk is so strong. Kains gains air from teleportation and levitating.


1. Him being fast is pointless, Kain as I said slows time with hs powers, M2 would be slowed down by I think it was about 60% or more. And teleportation> speed combined with time slow.

2. So his teleporting is not better then...ok

The purpose of Kains power was to manipulate blood, the fact he called it to himself with Tk was all he did in-game, but outside of the box and gmaeplay restrictions all he would do differenly is move his hand up or down (heart/brain) instead of towards himself.

Barrer protects from physical attacks, Kain uses very few of them tbh, only his sword which is perhapos the least dangerous of his powers. M2 speed and psychic powers are useless, psychic because Kain is fast enough to escape through mist or teleport and speed because of time abilities and Kains own teleport.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
As a matter of fact, I can show the more "consistent" plasma beam, from the very page you got the information on the beam in the first place.

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam#Appearances

The 2d Samus sprites are all firing plasma beams. Now, to be fair, some of the sprites shown are plasma beams along with other beams, but since most of Samus's arsenal can be used cumulatively, it doesn't really make much difference.

aSISk-l2Yoc

This video showcases the before and after effects of acquiring the plasma beam (the beam itself is found around 2:30). You can clearly see that the beam passes through enemies while damaging at the same time.

I cannot see how this beam is any different to the shots she was fireing before she gained plasma beam, none of this looks impressive so I cannot see how this helps Samus if in the past I have heard she has lightspeed attacks and mini black holes....

Why do they even bother?

Originally posted by Burning thought
unconcious how exactly? Kain had to have the means of his very excistence torn out of him to be knocked out for what had to be at most a few minutes....not that anyone here can do this.

How are you sure this mistake could not occur? M2 still as I siad has no mental defences, simple fact it seems. So he is easily going to be mind controlled and his fair game for Kain to use on the battlefield, it will quickl become 4 vs Samus.... How can you not seen how M2 would die from shock/probing of his own blood flooding his system or if were not going to think outside the box, pouring out of his nose/mouth or trying to escape through his body towards Kain? he cant.....and if he tried to go into his own body which is a very big assumption if he can even do it, he would kill himself because his Tk is even stronger than Kains.

m2 cannot Tk "hold" Kain because Kain can teleport/mist form, thus breaking the hold. Because first TK in Lok seems to work differently, its not coming from Kain in a beam or wave that can be pushed back, Kains powers appear on the body of his opponent and he throws them around, if M2 wants to forcefully push the TK from his own body (if he can) then he will end up tearing himself in half from the inside if you claim his Tk is so strong. Kains gains air from teleportation and levitating.

1. Him being fast is pointless, Kain as I said slows time with hs powers, M2 would be slowed down by I think it was about 60% or more. And teleportation> speed combined with time slow.
2. So his teleporting is not better then...ok

The purpose of Kains power was to manipulate blood, the fact he called it to himself with Tk was all he did in-game, but outside of the box and gmaeplay restrictions all he would do differenly is move his hand up or down (heart/brain) instead of towards himself.

Barrer protects from physical attacks, Kain uses very few of them tbh, only his sword which is perhapos the least dangerous of his powers. M2 speed and psychic powers are useless, psychic because Kain is fast enough to escape through mist or teleport and speed because of time abilities and Kains own teleport.

Unconscious was just a 'meh, ill turn this line around' for the hell of it. ;p

Now where where we... I dont think anyone is going to try persuade M2 follow them, no relevance. For just being a psychic pkmn he has the ability for mental defence as he does mental attack, and hes the top of the line on psychics. And Kains trying to control a mind as complex and powerful as M2s? Not gonna happpen. Still havnt seen him doing these blood feats, never the less one move out of this is like you say, teleport out of it. Even crushing him with a TK force would work. Yes, his TK is vastly stronger then Kains but he doesnt have to use a huge surge to use it fight him off.

In fact he 'can' hold Kain as the mist is a substance much like clouds, going back to the hurricane feat. Teleport wont work if hes already been caught, as other pkmn such as (again) Alakazam could of done the same. Only way for that to work is to teleport 'before' he's held, would still have to be out of M2s range which is extremely large. You're right M2 would tear himself in two to fight off Kains... If he did it on M2 before he met Giovani and had no control of what de does. Strong yes but its all about control over it which M2 has. Levitate like M2 does or is it more like hovering?

At 40% he's at the average pkmn speed, at least he wont be drastically slow(mental abilities speed is still above average). A barrier he puts up would stay up for the duration of the slow-down, teleporting being an instant thing can take him out of the 20m range. I assume he cant keep it up forever. I referenced that i didnt say the words faster teleporting, nothing more. Teleporting is teleporting, only thing to compare is speed of activation, range and if its able to take passengers.

The barrier variation 'Safeguard'; ''A large barrier forms around it, repelling all attacks from it.'' ''A force field appears, preventing anything from getting through.'' <- Self explanatory; mental assaults and blood manipulation will have to go through this. Kinda like a barrier to protect the pkmns health.

A hand movement to move M2s blood < A glance that can crush Kain. All it would take is a focused attack on Kain, as you said his TK is not as strong as M2s he has no way to defend himself.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Unconscious was just a 'meh, ill turn this line around' for the hell of it. ;p

Now where where we... I dont think anyone is going to try persuade M2 follow them, no relevance. For just being a psychic pkmn he has the ability for mental defence as he does mental attack, and hes the top of the line on psychics. And Kains trying to control a mind as complex and powerful as M2s? Not gonna happpen. Still havnt seen him doing these blood feats, never the less one move out of this is like you say, teleport out of it. Even crushing him with a TK force would work. Yes, his TK is vastly stronger then Kains but he doesnt have to use a huge surge to use it fight him off.

In fact he 'can' hold Kain as the mist is a substance much like clouds, going back to the hurricane feat. Teleport wont work if hes already been caught, as other pkmn such as (again) Alakazam could of done the same. Only way for that to work is to teleport 'before' he's held, would still have to be out of M2s range which is extremely large. You're right M2 would tear himself in two to fight off Kains... If he did it on M2 before he met Giovani and had no control of what de does. Strong yes but its all about control over it which M2 has. Levitate like M2 does or is it more like hovering?

At 40% he's at the average pkmn speed, at least he wont be drastically slow(mental abilities speed is still above average). A barrier he puts up would stay up for the duration of the slow-down, teleporting being an instant thing can take him out of the 20m range. I assume he cant keep it up forever. I referenced that i didnt say the words faster teleporting, nothing more. Teleporting is teleporting, only thing to compare is speed of activation, range and if its able to take passengers.

The barrier variation 'Safeguard'; ''A large barrier forms around it, repelling all attacks from it.'' ''A force field appears, preventing anything from getting through.'' <- Self explanatory; mental assaults and blood manipulation will have to go through this. Kinda like a barrier to protect the pkmns health.

A hand movement to move M2s blood < A glance that can crush Kain. All it would take is a focused attack on Kain, as you said his TK is not as strong as M2s he has no way to defend himself.

I support this message.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Or Zero lazer
Non-canon brawlcrap detected!

The Hyper Beam (from Super Metroid) and Phazon Beam is better anyway IMO.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Unconscious was just a 'meh, ill turn this line around' for the hell of it. ;p

Now where where we... I dont think anyone is going to try persuade M2 follow them, no relevance. For just being a psychic pkmn he has the ability for mental defence as he does mental attack, and hes the top of the line on psychics. And Kains trying to control a mind as complex and powerful as M2s? Not gonna happpen. Still havnt seen him doing these blood feats, never the less one move out of this is like you say, teleport out of it. Even crushing him with a TK force would work. Yes, his TK is vastly stronger then Kains but he doesnt have to use a huge surge to use it fight him off.

In fact he 'can' hold Kain as the mist is a substance much like clouds, going back to the hurricane feat. Teleport wont work if hes already been caught, as other pkmn such as (again) Alakazam could of done the same. Only way for that to work is to teleport 'before' he's held, would still have to be out of M2s range which is extremely large. You're right M2 would tear himself in two to fight off Kains... If he did it on M2 before he met Giovani and had no control of what de does. Strong yes but its all about control over it which M2 has. Levitate like M2 does or is it more like hovering?

At 40% he's at the average pkmn speed, at least he wont be drastically slow(mental abilities speed is still above average). A barrier he puts up would stay up for the duration of the slow-down, teleporting being an instant thing can take him out of the 20m range. I assume he cant keep it up forever. I referenced that i didnt say the words faster teleporting, nothing more. Teleporting is teleporting, only thing to compare is speed of activation, range and if its able to take passengers.

The barrier variation 'Safeguard'; ''A large barrier forms around it, repelling all attacks from it.'' ''A force field appears, preventing anything from getting through.'' <- Self explanatory; mental assaults and blood manipulation will have to go through this. Kinda like a barrier to protect the pkmns health.

A hand movement to move M2s blood < A glance that can crush Kain. All it would take is a focused attack on Kain, as you said his TK is not as strong as M2s he has no way to defend himself.

m2 mind is not complex, prove its any more difficult to MC him than a normal human being? as I said hes no real defence nor has he had to defend so he would not have any experiance in trying to defend himself. He wouldnt even know Kains doing it, Kain would suddenly have him under control in just a few seconds and he ould never have had a chance to protect himself.

Assuming Allakazam could have done the same is poor, if they did not do it, could have just been plot induced stupidity. TK is telekeinetic bonds on a physical level, Kain teleporting would remove his physical self for the time it takes him to appear agian which means the TK would be holding nothing and break. hovering, Kain would have to teleport higher to keep himself in the air. If he did not teleport, he would slowly float to the ground.

His own movements would be slow enough for Kain to teleport to continue his assault before M2 can counter attack, as he still has to gesture/conentrate for his powers, which ofc would take a lot of time under the effects of the time stasis. The TK barrier would be helpess against a spell or a TK force that originates from Kain or inside M2 shield, like blood manip.

No, false, the barrier is a barrier around his body, blood mainpulation would happen from inside this barrier, since its from inside M2. Its like holding up a shield only to have the attack go off inside you or behind your protection.

But as I said, this glance takes some chargingi, M2 when he first awoke glowed for about 3/4 seconds before his TK started doing anything. And as I said, Kain would prob teleport as his first move to an area not in M2 direct view so that he has some time to activate his own Tk, which ofc would be the end of M2 as his blood sprays from his body. Also what are you assuming M2 will do first? activate his shield? attack Kain with TK?

Kain turning into mist would mean M2 would have to direct his attack on mist which ofc would not kill Kain unless m2 has the ability to atomize mist particles, he would also have to go from a brunt physical blast which was meant to kill Kain physically to a weather controlling movement, all these things take time and Kain can teleport/mist form etc just as quickly as it takes M2 to realise this and attempt to change tactics. This is while Sephiroth is prob tossing him around with TK too, unlike Kain, Sephiroth has shown to be able to TK several entities at once.

Let us consider that Alakazam's brain is so large and advanced that it's IQ measures 5000. It is also so well-practiced in the use of TK, that it uses TK casually to manipulate it's own body. In addition, it remembers everything it has ever experienced from birth.

MewTwo has defeated two Alakazams, if I recall correctly, in psychic battles. He has also erased the memory of an Alakazam.

Kain has no defense against any of this, neither does Kratos or Sephiroth. /thread

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Non-canon brawlcrap detected!

The Hyper Beam (from Super Metroid) and Phazon Beam is better anyway IMO.

^^; Not played many Metroid games... and Zero laser just sounds better x]

Originally posted by Burning thought

For one a certain gym leader can mess with normal people with her psychic powers, cept for her father because his powers resisted hers. Normal people<The dad<<<x99 M2. Plain to see that it is complex, plus him being so much smarter then Kain helps out. To your 'never experienced', he spent the whole time with his MC puppet learning all about pkmn which means he knows of any of the pkmns mind control. Not far-fetched to say he learnt how to protect himself from it.

Could of been PIS, could of been M2s obvious towering TK overrides Alakazams weaker powers including teleporting. Could of been a few things but the latter make alot more sense :/ linked to this is your claim of Kain still being able to escape. If ^Zam was held by TK, by your theory he should of been able to use his psychic attacks/defences. Alas it did not happen.

Teleporting is an instant action, an example is playing(for example only) SSBmelee at 25% speed, Mewtwo(or any persons dodge) can still instantly activate it. No gesture needed. No it is in fact true and is undebatable as that is their designated effect, M2 can learn around 5 other barrier type moves should his TK or normal barrier not work. For the love of... M2 when he first woke up? You mean when he used his powers for the first time, before was able to control his power? And what simple move took 3/4 seconds? The blue energy around him was unconcentrated loosed energy. You make it sound like he charges like DBZ.
Lets see he looked at the floor/wall and straight away it cracks and implodes, and made a shield that was strong enough to 'disintegrate' those 40ish metal arms. Any of those can be used on Kain with successful results. (Remember those two moves where before he could properly use his power, unlike the M2 here)

How long do you think it takes to put up a shield or use TK? Grab before he moves- Barrier the sec he moves- Teleport when Kain does- So much he can do. Let me throw this at you; If M2 did what you said Kain would for his first move,(teleport behind Kain and TK him) is there anything he can do to prevent it? He has less spacial awareness then M2 and cannot produce a shield either... Now what? You've made good way to catch Kain by this reverse.

Ok if I had M2s powers and I saw Kain turn into mist, it would take a second to realise 'I should grab the mist' and TK it. Now lets I have the average IQ of around 100(not my IQ btw lol) ^Zam has an IQ of 5000 and M2 is smarter then that... Himself in this situation would know whats happening when it happens. Mist is useless =[
(Oh and saying M2 takes 3/4 seconds to use his powers then saying ''Kain can teleport/mist form etc just as quickly as it takes M2 to realise this and attempt to change tactics.'' would mean that Kain takes 3/4 seconds to act. Not saying anything just pointing it out ^^)

Is becoming mist the only way out of being crushed?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Let us consider that Alakazam's brain is so large and advanced that it's IQ measures 5000. It is also so well-practiced in the use of TK, that it uses TK casually to manipulate it's own body. In addition, it remembers everything it has ever experienced from birth.

MewTwo has defeated two Alakazams, if I recall correctly, in psychic battles. He has also erased the memory of an Alakazam.

Kain has no defense against any of this, neither does Kratos or Sephiroth. /thread

Kain is immune to mind control far more advanced than M2 has shown and this is the weakest Kain, Kain is not like 10k years old, has the powers of said vampire and has evolved over the years...from a very obscure memory I seem to remember that kids defeated an Allakazams mind games, or someones mind games who was a psychic but i cannot remember.

Originally posted by BloodRain
For one a certain gym leader can mess with normal people with her psychic powers, cept for her father because his powers resisted hers. Normal people<The dad<<<x99 M2. Plain to see that it is complex, plus him being so much smarter then Kain helps out. To your 'never experienced', he spent the whole time with his MC puppet learning all about pkmn which means he knows of any of the pkmns mind control. Not far-fetched to say he learnt how to protect himself from it.

Could of been PIS, could of been M2s obvious towering TK overrides Alakazams weaker powers including teleporting. Could of been a few things but the latter make alot more sense :/ linked to this is your claim of Kain still being able to escape. If ^Zam was held by TK, by your theory he should of been able to use his psychic attacks/defences. Alas it did not happen.

Teleporting is an instant action, an example is playing(for example only) SSBmelee at 25% speed, Mewtwo(or any persons dodge) can still instantly activate it. No gesture needed. No it is in fact true and is undebatable as that is their designated effect, M2 can learn around 5 other barrier type moves should his TK or normal barrier not work. For the love of... M2 when he first woke up? You mean when he used his powers for the first time, before was able to control his power? And what simple move took 3/4 seconds? The blue energy around him was unconcentrated loosed energy. You make it sound like he charges like DBZ.
Lets see he looked at the floor/wall and straight away it cracks and implodes, and made a shield that was strong enough to 'disintegrate' those 40ish metal arms. Any of those can be used on Kain with successful results. (Remember those two moves where before he could properly use his power, unlike the M2 here)

How long do you think it takes to put up a shield or use TK? Grab before he moves- Barrier the sec he moves- Teleport when Kain does- So much he can do. Let me throw this at you; If M2 did what you said Kain would for his first move,(teleport behind Kain and TK him) is there anything he can do to prevent it? He has less spacial awareness then M2 and cannot produce a shield either... Now what? You've made good way to catch Kain by this reverse.

Ok if I had M2s powers and I saw Kain turn into mist, it would take a second to realise 'I should grab the mist' and TK it. Now lets I have the average IQ of around 100(not my IQ btw lol) ^Zam has an IQ of 5000 and M2 is smarter then that... Himself in this situation would know whats happening when it happens. Mist is useless =

For this to relate to m2 at all it would take an incredible amount of assumption, we would have to assume M2 knew of these particulour pokemon, THEN we had to assume he attempted to learn their power, then we have to assume if his level of ability is any use....too many assumptions, if we stack enough assumptions (or facts imo) Kain would be nigh omnipotent. It doesnt work that way.

once again, assumptions. What we know is TK is physical, theres no reason why Allakazam couldnt have teleported unless ofc Allakazam needs to make a gesture or movement and he was too restricted to do so.....

An instant action is determined still by time, if M2 really can instantly without any movement or concentration teleport then perhaps it will be instant but then again, while trapped in time, him fading in or out of teleportion may be slowed to a degree that Kain could slash him still. Claiming something is unbeatable is a no limit fallacy, you have to show feats for what barrier has actually absorbed/reflected. By its physical logic in the fact its just a field around M2 (a bubble?) its not protecting his inner body, if the shield is not being hit then its useless like in the case of mind control, Kains Tk and some spells. He concentrates to use his powers in that opening vid, his eyes glow, psychic energy glows around him and he lets it loose. Show me him instantly witohut any charge crushing someone like you think he will do against kain please.

Ive not seen M2 open his shield but I know Kain could have faded into teleport before he can do much more than perhaps grab him with TK, if that. If he does or attempts to attack Kain, Kain can go in and out of Tk on a whim without trouble, M2 still has to concentrate/find kain and propel his attacks. Less special awareness than M2? whats this based on? ive not seen any extra awareness from M2 personally....and if Kain teleports from the beginning then M2 will not know where he is, if M2 teleports then hes in more trouble because he could end up being at an angle where he still cannot see Kain, in which case the first one to see the other is based on luck. By then however Kain could have put up his time powers, repel shield and mind controlled/killed Samus.

And in that second, Kain could be solid again...or have teleported. mist form is perfect for escpaing TK and if he decides to concentrate on a new attack to effect mist, it would be too late.

Becoming mist and teleporting, if m2 crushes him then he just turns to mist and reforms, M2 has no way of actually annhilating mist/atomising it afaik...

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain is immune to mind control far more advanced than M2 has shown and this is the weakest Kain, Kain is not like 10k years old, has the powers of said vampire and has evolved over the years...from a very obscure memory I seem to remember that kids defeated an Allakazams mind games, or someones mind games who was a psychic but i cannot remember.

Kain isn't immune to anything. Right now you're suggesting some fool who controlled some peasants has more powerful psychic abilities than something able to best the most powerful mind in Pokemon.

He's never shown any resistance to anything as powerful as MewTwo, and even if MewTwo couldn't just erase Kain's memory or turn him into a puppet, Kain still has no way he can win.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Kain isn't immune to anything. Right now you're suggesting some fool who controlled some peasants has more powerful psychic abilities than something able to best the most powerful mind in Pokemon.

He's never shown any resistance to anything as powerful as MewTwo, and even if MewTwo couldn't just erase Kain's memory or turn him into a puppet, Kain still has no way he can win.

Peasants( small army of soldiers, knights war priests etc) are far more than nothing that Kazam and M2 have. And besting the most powerful mind in pokemon is nothing if its just in a physical bout or mind wipe, that kazam has no resistance, no ability to protect itself from mental control unlike Kain

M2 has zero feats of MC so no, Kain has the mentla resistance here. mind wiping<<mind controlling x the amount of soldiers Marcus could control. Kain is also far more intelligent and more evolved than his younger form now as well so he would be more than enough to laugh at any attempt of M2 entering his mind, the little thing would die of shock to look into Kains mind

kain can win through a vast number of ways, blood control, sword slashes, mind control, magic, time powers etc M2 has to work very hard and rely on luck if he can even hope to stop Kain alone....thats forgetting Sephiroth could also mess him about and toss M2 around with his own Tk. M2 cant be everywhere and use every power at once...

Originally posted by BloodRain
^^; Not played many Metroid games... and Zero laser just sounds better x]
Ah, okay. You're excused then.

The Zero Laser is gay though.

I am curious where is the quote that claims M2 has a mind as fast as a Super computer, ive been researching M2 over the last hour and cannot find it. Ive also obserbed that it seems during the Mew vs M2 fight, every attack M2 barrier is hit by deactivates it making me wonder if its actually in canon a shield that protects only for a short duration or for one strike only. Or perhaps it needs to take certain amount of damage to be reduced....

So why isn't Kratos needed again?

Hes too slow, has less distance than the others. Hes a physical character facing fast opponents with powerful long range weapons. Both of them prob have ways of nullifying his attacks or making him even slower/them faster so in the end he will likely do very little unless some team work allows Sephiroth or Kain to Tk launch Kratos at enemies or some such lol....

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sephiroth or Kain to Tk launch Kratos at enemies or some such lol....


Lol.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Peasants( small army of soldiers, knights war priests etc) are far more than nothing that Kazam and M2 have. And besting the most powerful mind in pokemon is nothing if its just in a physical bout or mind wipe, that kazam has no resistance, no ability to protect itself from mental control unlike Kain

M2 has zero feats of MC so no, Kain has the mentla resistance here. mind wiping<<mind controlling x the amount of soldiers Marcus could control. Kain is also far more intelligent and more evolved than his younger form now as well so he would be more than enough to laugh at any attempt of M2 entering his mind, the little thing would die of shock to look into Kains mind

kain can win through a vast number of ways, blood control, sword slashes, mind control, magic, time powers etc M2 has to work very hard and rely on luck if he can even hope to stop Kain alone....thats forgetting Sephiroth could also mess him about and toss M2 around with his own Tk. M2 cant be everywhere and use every power at once...

Okay, here's what I'd like you to do: redirect your eyesight to my previous post. Now, begin by looking at the word "Kain." Continue by moving your eyes to the right and looking at every word you look over on the way, comprehending what each word means in succession. When you get to a point where the words stop and there is nothing but blank space, DON'T PANIC. Simply move back over to the word on the far left, in this case it is "Kain" and look slightly lower. This is the next line of my post, look over this line too.

Please continue in this fashion until you have reached the point of the post where moving to the next line results in more blank space. This point is better known to some as the end of the post.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
nooo!! I dont have any evidence for my poor arguments and now ime flailing my arms around like a drowning man please! helpz me! crybaby

"sighs" and watches the life jacket of clever argument and rubber ring of debating tact floating uselessly away....

I'm not showing you the evidence again. You've seen it all more times than is needed for a small rodent to recognize it as better feats than anything Kain has.

It's a shame though. The only time I've ever asked you to do anything for me and you can't do it.

I recommend finishing elementary school. There you will develop the skills you need to continue your education and become a functioning member of society.

Samus lays a powerbomb, everyone but her dies.

/thread

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice

I think ill try finishing nursery school. There I will develop the skills I need to continue my education and become a functioning member of society.

fixed

Originally posted by Cyner
Samus lays a powerbomb, everyone but her dies.

/thread

Whats this bomb do?

Kills everything? Would think the context would be pretty obvious.

Originally posted by Cyner
Samus lays a powerbomb, everyone but her dies.

/thread
I guess you forgot about Mewtwo's barrier shield thing.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Kills everything? Would think the context would be pretty obvious.

I see so if God, Theodore Logan and chuck norris were standing near it they would die? no....

I highly doubt it kills"everything", I assume its just an explosion although if you want to be so direct and all it does is "kill" everything then Kain is already dead and it does nothing to him?

That wasn't nearly as clever as you think it is.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I see so if God, Theodore Logan and chuck norris were standing near it they would die? no....

I highly doubt it kills"everything", I assume its just an explosion although if you want to be so direct and all it does is "kill" everything then Kain is already dead and it does nothing to him?

Technically, Kain is a living dead.

Originally posted by Burning thought
For this to relate to m2 at all it would take an incredible amount of assumption, we would have to assume M2 knew of these particulour pokemon, THEN we had to assume he attempted to learn their power, then we have to assume if his level of ability is any use....too many assumptions, if we stack enough assumptions (or facts imo) Kain would be nigh omnipotent. It doesnt work that way.

once again, assumptions. What we know is TK is physical, theres no reason why Allakazam couldnt have teleported unless ofc Allakazam needs to make a gesture or movement and he was too restricted to do so.....

An instant action is determined still by time, if M2 really can instantly without any movement or concentration teleport then perhaps it will be instant but then again, while trapped in time, him fading in or out of teleportion may be slowed to a degree that Kain could slash him still. Claiming something is unbeatable is a no limit fallacy, you have to show feats for what barrier has actually absorbed/reflected. By its physical logic in the fact its just a field around M2 (a bubble?) its not protecting his inner body, if the shield is not being hit then its useless like in the case of mind control, Kains Tk and some spells. He concentrates to use his powers in that opening vid, his eyes glow, psychic energy glows around him and he lets it loose. Show me him instantly witohut any charge crushing someone like you think he will do against kain please.

Ive not seen M2 open his shield but I know Kain could have faded into teleport before he can do much more than perhaps grab him with TK, if that. If he does or attempts to attack Kain, Kain can go in and out of Tk on a whim without trouble, M2 still has to concentrate/find kain and propel his attacks. Less special awareness than M2? whats this based on? ive not seen any extra awareness from M2 personally....and if Kain teleports from the beginning then M2 will not know where he is, if M2 teleports then hes in more trouble because he could end up being at an angle where he still cannot see Kain, in which case the first one to see the other is based on luck. By then however Kain could have put up his time powers, repel shield and mind controlled/killed Samus.

And in that second, Kain could be solid again...or have teleported. mist form is perfect for escpaing TK and if he decides to concentrate on a new attack to effect mist, it would be too late.

Becoming mist and teleporting, if m2 crushes him then he just turns to mist and reforms, M2 has no way of actually annhilating mist/atomising it afaik...



You assume I assume too much, thats a bad assumption. First he knows them like a pkmn scientists knows them, as he made a clone machine 2.0 he knows of all of the pkmn. Last ones not really much of an assumption. So it does relate to M2. No pkmn needs a gesture to teleport, when Zam flinched its obvious anything he had in his arsenal was null to the effect of M2s TK.

This ''may be slowed so Kain can slash'' kinda ends this as the 'may' would take scientific/mathematics of both their fiction worlds. Whats unbeatable? The move barrier usually appears as a sphere around M2, thats barrier though.(Eg; in this world some moves defend from physical and some defend from 'special' attacks. Inner would be the latter) Why do you insist of trying to show M2s weakness by stating what he did in his weakest form? At that time the blue burst was released energy, with later control it becomes important. One time he held/ used TK without any blue energy? Holding the Rhyhorn, no excess energy around him.

Hold up if M2 TKs Kain he could... TK on a whim? Even if he cant aim his hands towards M2? Pkmn are like sentient animals, all pkmn have better then normal awareness. Oh and the question i was proposing to you was that if M2 teleported instead of Kain. Not if they do it at the same time.

Mist is still a Tkable matter for a being able to make hurricanes. Why attack the mist (though very possible) why he can just continue Tking it, wouldnt even need to change his grip on Kain when he changes.

Scattering the mist, fire, changing temperature are examples of 'defeating' mist. Kains will just need a little more TK on it. Weak M2 disintegrates metal, strong M2...

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Not sure if that is true, but lets drop this and say he caused them be unable to control thier bodies by making them flail around randomly.
Yeah sure, why not.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
CIS! Sephiroth is a cocky SoB! I think it would help.
Lol. Doing that to a small group of people is good against normal people, not for those with TK capabilities. Thats why its not that useful in this battle.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Sephiroth is manifested in them, because they are alive which is proof of Sephiroths existance. That is what that means. I assume that was "not necessarily implied"? Clarify please.
I isolated the most important part which clearly states he used his own Will (And he also used his Negative Lifestream) to create them the only thing he got from the Lifestream were images to create them from.
It never stated she had the potential, she could try but that doesn't mean she would succeed.
Having their memories and already having a brain and body (before they became part of the Lifestream), so they he didnt make them from scratch so to speak. Just filled in part of their existence with his own. And her being her means there's a very good chance. But they can only do this if they re part of the Lifestream which i assume he isn't as he's in this fight.
Either way these creation feats isnt going to help in a fight.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Took me a while to build it, but it is freakin awesome!
O,o build it?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Technically, Kain is a living dead.

Even thats debatable, hes excisting and moving around by most standards but he is not "alive", his body should physicall be dead, as should the magic that originally animated him but despite all these factors he exists. Amy herrings (creator of LOk) excuse was that its just because its the nature of the Scion of balance.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You assume I assume too much, thats a bad assumption. First he knows them like a pkmn scientists knows them, as he made a clone machine 2.0 he knows of all of the pkmn. Last ones not really much of an assumption. So it does relate to M2. No pkmn needs a gesture to teleport, when Zam flinched its obvious anything he had in his arsenal was null to the effect of M2s TK.

This ''may be slowed so Kain can slash'' kinda ends this as the 'may' would take scientific/mathematics of both their fiction worlds. Whats unbeatable? The move barrier usually appears as a sphere around M2, thats barrier though.(Eg; in this world some moves defend from physical and some defend from 'special' attacks. Inner would be the latter) Why do you insist of trying to show M2s weakness by stating what he did in his weakest form? At that time the blue burst was released energy, with later control it becomes important. One time he held/ used TK without any blue energy? Holding the Rhyhorn, no excess energy around him.

Hold up if M2 TKs Kain he could... TK on a whim? Even if he cant aim his hands towards M2? Pkmn are like sentient animals, all pkmn have better then normal awareness. Oh and the question i was proposing to you was that if M2 teleported instead of Kain. Not if they do it at the same time.

Mist is still a Tkable matter for a being able to make hurricanes. Why attack the mist (though very possible) why he can just continue Tking it, wouldnt even need to change his grip on Kain when he changes.

Scattering the mist, fire, changing temperature are examples of 'defeating' mist. Kains will just need a little more TK on it. Weak M2 disintegrates metal, strong M2...

TK held him steady, it TK does not unless you have evidence that M2s somehow does negate all the opponents powers or at least their psychic ones?

not really, its just based on chance. I cannot determine how quickly a teleport would happen under the effect of a time reduction, everything from phasing out to M2 thinking of activating it would be reduced in speed but it has to be considered. Ok so I need feats to see him without having any concentration/blue energy and lifting something, can you find this lifting of Ryhorn?

That depends if M2 has shown such control, has he actually held someone in Tk so they cannot move their body at all? Kain could technically teleport to escape Tk if someone Kain is captured, if they both used TK at the same time, M2 would die from blood manip and Kain would just be held for a second before M2 died. All pokemon have better than normal awareness but vampires enhanced in every way and evolved on top of that do not? not likely, I think its even stated in the early blood omens but I dont know if I could find the vid for it. Can you find evidence to suggest this improved sentience and prove it has helped him? If M2 teleported without Kain doing so then I am not sure, Kains main form of movement on a battlefield would be teleport, he has no other mode of transport apart from maybe mist that he would use. Running/walking would be too slow.

It is, but you would have to change tactics, so as soon as Kain mists, M2 would have to target mist particles, then ofc he would reform as kain an instant later. Once again, change of tactics. This could give Kain time to teleport, either way its an ability Kain could use to make sure M2 is vulernable for his other team mates OR just cant harm him. Because the mist becomes Kain, its no longer mist.

You cant defeat mist, scattering it= useless, it would just mean Kain could surprise M2 with even more ease since M2 would have no idea where all the mist is at the time. Fire? when has M2 made fire, and this would simply create more vapour as you woud make the particles heat up so Kain would have evn more mist/vapour to hide in.....you can only help Kain by doing this.

Also so far were debating Kain vs Team 2, this is fair enough but this is not the case.....Kain has Sephiroth on his team, thats two Tkers, you can go into depth about how M2 could perhaps fight off a few of Kains abilities by concentrating on him and attempting to defend himself but Sephiroth can also Tk, toss entities about etc if M2 is concentrating on kain, he is not on Sephiroth who could toss M2 about, in which case Kain can then attack.

Kratos is useless unfortunaltey.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Even thats debatable, hes excisting and moving around by most standards but he is not "alive", his body should physicall be dead, as should the magic that originally animated him but despite all these factors he exists. Amy herrings (creator of LOk) excuse was that its just because its the nature of the Scion of balance

He still fall into the living dead category