Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Team JaketheBank/Smurph

Sersi: Smurph
Sinestro: Jake
Cyborg Superman: Both

vs.

Team darthgoober/Blair Wind

Silver Surfer: Goober
Dr. Doom: Both
Eradicator: Blair

Location: Flat planet with an indestructible trampoline-like surface that extends out into an infinite plain and has an Earth-like atmosphere.

Prep Time:
- Each team will have access to a "team lounge" measuring 15x15 meters with a couple of couches, satellite tv, refrigerator, washroom, and an assortment of snacks and drinks for 5 minutes prior to each fight where they can use their prep time. . No extending of that prep time via any means (ie speed force or time manipulation).

Here's a link to the rules of the tourney:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t522335.html

Judges:
TBA

Team Smurph/JaketheBank

Because darthgoober and B-Dub's prep is a massive, jumbled pile of text, I'm docking 1 post from their 10 post total.

Team darthgoober/Blair Wind Part 1

Team darthgoober/Blair Wind Part 2

edit

Team Awesome, post 2

The tech upgrades

So, the opponents strategy is to take the purpose of Doom's devices, generalize it to the extreme, then claim that he can make all of it in a couple of minutes.

They are presuming that the telepathy worked, that they have power supply left enough to accomplish this, and that they actually have two minutes left to spare. I'll leave that up to the judges to decide, though currently the evidence seems stacked against them.

The devices:

1. an invention capable of absorbing every type of energy, ever. no scans were provided. apparently Doom, now that he has the power cosmic and kryptonian powers (which he is probably spending the whole two minutes learning how to control), is capable of simply inventing this in seconds because he wants to. his energy absorption devices in the past have all been capable of absorbing some time of energy, but never anything, and rarely in the amounts that we're capable of delivering.

2. Psi refractors to block any psi attempts. As they show, Doom once made a device capable of blocking out a thuggish mental blast from an opponent with no obvious power level or feats to add credit that the device is worth anything.

In a matter of seconds, Doom is going to extrapolate this device to include blocking out any mental influence of any sort, of any power level.

Perhaps our opponents suspect we can't read the scans they provide.

In any case, I have little doubt that with only this prepared, Sersi will have a field day destroying their feeble mental defenses.

3. Since Doom once figured out how to channel fear into rage, it should be no problem to turn fear into a completely different emotion, relying on manipulating different parts of the brain. It should also be no issue that he's attempting to use it on his own team despite apparently blocking out any Psi attempts, that his team consists of a great variety of different species, including Kryptonian, Human, Cosmic-Powered Herald and Robot, whose emotions would be controlled completely differently than by whatever his original devices targeted, and that he is expected to twiddle his fingers and accomplish this feat.

Note that we don't need these devices to work anyways, as their function is irrelevant to our rings functioning (which is that the opponents are trying to tamper with here by messing with their own fear), but it'll be hilarious when Doom ends up sending their emotions completely askew because he had no time left to do anything precise.

4. Doom once made an electronic energizer to manipulate one opponents force field, and he made a concussive weapon to tamper with Sue Storm's cosmic force field. Obviously this indicates that he should, in no time at all, be capable of constructing something to tamper with any force field utilized by any comic character ever, right?

I don't think I should need to point out how inane this claim is.

5. They alter a force field generator to resist the pull of a black hole. Obviously, since it didn't take long for us to write, it should take no time at all for Doom to invent.

Seriously guys, I know he's smart, but if he was capable of inventing such devices in two minutes (which is time he doesn't have anyways), then he wouldn't be allowed in this tournament because he'd have invented himself beyond herald level, and stayed there.

Here's the kicker though- even if they were capable of such feats, and even if the judges agree that this is all remotely plausible, then there is nothing- absolutely nothing- to stop us from simply doing the same thing mid-match.

Our opening move is to mentally scan any tech they're using, which is something we're all completely capable of, with Hank Henshaw's power set. This is a character capable of manipulating tech on the level of the Source Wall. He's abducted technology that leaves Dr. Doom in the dust, especially things that Doom's expected to invent on the fly in two minutes. It is absolutely no issue for us to simply read what these devices are, and create them ourselves using any of our power sets- we're all capable. We can then nullify your forcefields, tamper with your emotions, and resist your precious black hole with ease.

If the opposition seriously believes themselves capable of these feats, then we can simply replicate them as fast as we please.

Anyways, now that their self-amping is shown to have little credibility, let's move on to the methods of attack that they propose:

No Contact Zone

To quote Kahn

Originally posted by TheKahn
They want to create some kind of vague device/energy field that will attacks the opposition in some unnamed manner with no on-panel evidence of it being used in any way much less showing its effectiveness against even the most mundane defenses.


Pretty much says it all. This device has no mentioned method of attack, it just kills things.

Luckily we have pretty much the best defenses in the game. Multiple fully charged Qwardian rings, Cyborg Superman (who has survived everything from the Source Wall to galaxy destroying blasts to the Omega Effect), and Sersi's ability to turn anything into anything else (coupled now with kryptonian reflexes and a super computer mind).

Also worth mentioning- in the scan describing the device, it's mentioned to work through genetic manipulation. If this means it actively manipulates our genes, it's illegal. If it means it works by manipulating reproduction and generations of individuals on Krypton, it clearly doesn't have time to operate. Plus, genetic manipulation is Sersi's bread and butter, and Cyborg Sersi would know everything about the technology thanks to receiving Hank Henshaw's genes- so she could just modify our team to be immune and could even set up the same device to work on our opponents.

They entered the battle armed with all sorts of tech. Against Cyborg Superman. Silly, really.

Magic

As mentioned above, their telepathic defenses are extremely limited.
As mentioned above, Sersi is an incredible telepath.
As they show in their scans, the use of the bands of Cy involves intense concentration.

On one end of the field, we have Doom, attempting to move at FTL speeds, utilize the power cosmic, maintain 5 seperate bands of Cytorrak (can you even cast more than one at once), utilize various technology, and attempt not to kill himself or his teammates with the kryptonian power set that he has absolutely no experience with.

Simultaneously he'll have to block out Sersi, which is no easy feat. She stalemated Exodus, after all. That's power.

The likelihood that he'll be able to accomplish any of those things with her mentally assaulting him is fairly low. The chance that he'll be capable of maintaining multiple bands of Cyttorrak, any one of which already requires much concentration, while doing all these things, while shutting her out of his head, and not getting utterly destroyed by our offensive players?

No chance at all.

This goes for all spells that he could potentially cast. Our team is faster, harder hitting, more capable, and has a powerful telepath on it- all things that pretty much nix magic.

The spatial energy wave

So, despite the fact that Surfer's already spent all his power, he's now going to attempt to create a spatial energy wave to take out Sersi.

Sersi's at the back of line, playing defensively physically and offensive mentally. So Surfer would have to go through two opponents that are physically superior, possess twice the energy manipulating capabilities, getting constantly healed, and that are armed with DC's most potent weaponry.

Sersi's biology no longer has such a weakness anyways, since she's now Cyborg Sersi.

Cyborg Sersi also possesses a Qwardian ring that would nix such an attempt.

Blastaar's blasts were bio-energetic, and capable of disrupting bio energy. Surfer's blast is spatial energy, and completely different.

Cyborg Sersi is fast. Faster than necessary to simply move out of the way, and fast enough to simply turn the blast into something else, either with her own energy manipulating powers, or those of the ring.

Summation:

Tech:

Impossible for them to pull off in time. Even if you give them that ridiculous benefit of the doubt, we'll just take their tech and use it against them.

No Contact Zone

Utterly ridiculous. They hope to use a device with no precise claim on how it works, and claim that they can kill us with it because it worked slowly over generations to imprison kryptonians.

Get back to us when that's anything more than another idea on the drawing board.

Magic

As shown in the scans, requires concentration. They're also claiming to do things with magic that Doom's never accomplished before, and they're claiming to be capable of these things while performing a myriad of other activities and being mentally assaulted, with no real mental protection.

Magic is a non-issue.

The anti-Sersi wave

Sersi is no longer Sersi, and even if she was, there are 101 reasons why Surfer, now nearly powerless, would no longer be able to pull off such an attack in time to do any damage, and why it wouldn't even do damage if it reached her.

Team JaketheBank/Original Smurph aka Team Awesome
Post #3/10

Well, my partner, OGSmurph will be handling specific areas of our oppenents prep and intial attacking, leaving me with my own issues to touch up on. Let's get this underway, ladies and gentlemen.

Black Hole: Well, this one is pretty easy. Unfortunetly for our oppenents, black holes are nothing to our team. As many of you are well aware of, a rookie Green Lantern is able to traverse if not out right nullify the effects of a black hole.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl151_23_glc.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl151_24_glc.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl169_10.jpg

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/3383/recharge02pg133ld.jpg

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/796/recharge02pg170je.jpg

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/2962/recharge02pg180ny.jpg

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/4631/recharge02pg194lf.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/377424dc.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7686be08.jpg

And if a rookie is able to accomplish this, imagine if you will, a team of beings all weilding Qwardian rings, all of them armed with the knowledge of Sinestro. Black holes? Pfff. Screw black holes.

Doom: Let me get this out of the way right here. Doom removing his armor in favor of a lessened connection to the Power Cosmic and Kryptonian powers was a huge mistake. There is absolutely no way that Doom will be able to cast magic, weild the Power Cosmic, and use his Kryptonian powers to their full advantage against our team. He's going to be dealing with two primary attackers, each of them armed with Kryptonian speed and reflexes AND unimaginable computer like analytic processing AND Qwardian Rings. Not only will everyone on our team think MUCH faster and with much more clarity than Doom, they will be able to easily physically outmanuever him and most importantly, outfight him. I'm sure our oppenent's will attempt to counter this point with the fact that he's augmented with the Power Cosmic and has Kryptonian speed/reflexes of his own as well as the fact that he, indeed, Doctor Doom, but it's not going to be enough here. He's operating on a divided and less effective portion of the Power Cosmic and will be attempting to invoke magic in a futile attempt to bind us. And this is generously assuming that Doom, in all his grandeur, will even be able to reach this state of power to which our oppenent's claim he can during prep time.

Rings: Let me also educate our oppenents as well as others who may be unfamiliar with the Qwardian Rings. The Qwardian rings are fueled not by whether or not our oppenent's are feeling fear, but rather on the weilder's ability to manipulate fear and instill fear in the general sense. We could care less if you won't be shaking in fear from our team. Our rings are still going to be operating at full power. Because of the proximity to the center of the Electromagnetic Emotion Spectrum, the Qwardian rings are considered to be equal in power and function of the Oan power rings. And since each member of our team is going to have the mastery and finesse of weilding this weapons that Sinestro himself does, it's a safe bet to assume that they can acomplish the greatest high end feats of the most experienced of Lanterns.

Speed Advantage: I touched briefly on this above, but let's further delve into the most basic of advantages we have over our oppenents. With our Kryptonian DNA, we have at our disposal, FTL movement and reaction speed. And this isn't random DNA; this is DNA from Kal-El himself here, a being who, at the time, already had an adult lifetime of solar absorbtion under his belt. That alone puts on at least an even playing field with a team of pseudo-Kryptonians (if they can even accomplish that in their allotted prep time) and a divided portion of the Power Cosmic. Now, factor in the machine precision of our very minds, operating at levels far beyond what most supercomputers can even hope to achieve. We're going to be thinking at speeds faster than what our oppenent's are going to be capable of doing, and with our crystal clear clarity and ability to process pertinent information faster than their team can, it's a massive advantage in our favor. Now, if that wasn't enough, factor in the rings we weild.

With minimal effort, the power rings alone can break the sound barrier
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/SoundBarrierBroken.jpg

and can achieve FTL speed on their own

http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/9189/greenlanterncorpsrecharge03020.jpg

Augmenting our own natural speed with our weapons clearly makes us faster off the bat. What's worse? Because of our superior thinking speed and thought processes, our weapons, which operate at the speed of thought, are going to be too fast to handle, especially for a team that purposefully weakened themselves for an unlikely, unwise, and unreachable advantage.

Strength: Not only our we going to be faster, but it can even be argued that we are going to be physically more powerful as well. In addition to Kryptonian strength (and not just any Kryptonian mind you but Kal-El himself), which is, for all intents and purposes, incalcuable, we're also armed with Kryptonian alloy which is equally impossibly strong. To make matters worse for our oppenents, we going to be able to use our rings to form constructs which can easily amp our physical might in the form of melee weapons.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2831/87485041qk1.jpg

Coupled with our speed, we could very well physically thrash the opposition if and when it comes to close quarters.

Energy Manipulation: Energy manipulation, and to a certain extent, matter manipulation is something that is going to play heavily here, and by both teams. Unfortunely, Surfer halving his power to Doom - who will somehow juggle the Power Cosmic, his own sorcery, and Kryptonian powers to the best of his ability - makes this aspect of the match overwhelmingly in our favor. Each member of our team possess first and foremost, a variation of what many consider to be the most powerful weapon in the DC Universe. Everything from hard light contructs to bursts of energy to...well, whatever we can imagine (within reason of course ) is at our fingertips. Not only that, but we have the ability to form weapons out of the blue, morphing them from our own body, something Henshaw is notorious for doing. Will be able to calibrate weapons on the fly DURING battle itself and with speed and computing ability that isn't even funny...well, yeah, okay, it is kinda funny but that's not the point. Here are some examples of Sinestro's impressive energy output and various ringslinging feats.

Easily able to restrain Bizarro, who wants to kill the poor sap shown.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/DCSpecialSeries6_04-05.jpg

Here, Sinestro is shown able to rip out the Ion entity itself from Kyle with minimal effort. Three of his Corpsmen, who can assume are nowhere near as proficient with the rings as Sinestro is, are shown containing the powerful being in a construct.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/scan40.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/scan41-42.jpg

While not overtly impressive in comparison to what each of our characters can do, Sinestro with little effort, reforms Hal's fighter jet which was destroyed in spectacular fashion. Considering that Sinestro had just arrived on Earth and was faced with primitive technology he hadn't encountered before, this only illustrates what he can do unaugmented by other sources and with littler effort. Giving him the ability to move and think even faster than he normally can opens up a nasty can of worms for our oppenent.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/GL32017.jpg

This essentially speaks for itself.
http://img496.imageshack.us/img496/1527/flash222224ee.jpg


Summary:
-Rookie GL's can survive and even close black holes with minimal effort. Three ring weilders all of whom are operating on Sinestro and Henshaw's level of experience in using them are not going to be bothered by that crap.

-Dr. Doom is a serious weak link to the team and will be promptly dealt with by our well oiled machine of a team (pun only marginally intended), leaving the rest of their team to be dealt with at our leisure.

-Our rings are fueled by our mastery of fear, how to instill it into others, and understanding of it, not by whether or not our oppenent's feel fear. They can be as brave as they want, it won't make our constructs weaker or energy attacks less deadly.

-Our tremendous speed advantage thanks to the dynamic combination of Kryptonian speed and reflexes, super computer thinking and processing speed of the highest order, and Qwardian power rings.

-Our strength advantage thanks to the combination of Kryptonian strength and alloys and constructs designed to increase the effectiveness of melee attacks, should we choose to fight in close quarters.

-Our superior energy manipulation thanks in part to built in tech and weaponry of our cyborg bodies and Qwardian rings compared to their divived power cosmic and "kryptonian" genes.

Unofficial post

Sorry about the holdup but we're having to scrap part of our prep because we apparently exceeded the cap on a couple of points. We'll start posting our stuff as soon as we know for sure what we have to work with.

Wow we spent all that time typing up an opening posts and apparently out opponents didn't even take the time to read it thoroghly so I'll correct several major errors before moving on. The character count limits prevent me from quoting everything Smurph and Jake says and still be able to go over our points to so I'll forgo responding that way and just hope people can keep up for now, and get into specific responses later on.

Errors in our precieved prep.

1. We're not giving Doom half of Surfer's power, we're giving him about 10% of it. In the instance I posted of Surfer sharing his power he said he had to give up half to create a "cosmic link", but our telepathy/cosmic awareness combo gets done before that even happens so that kind of link isn't necessary for us to share info from Surfer.

2. Our sunlamps aren't "mini suns" they're sunlamps and the amount of power it would take to create that kind of thing is trivial.

3. Surfer's not altering the forcefield generator while he's making the sunlamps. We mentioned the generator only to explane that we were setting it aside, we specifically talk about altering the generator in the next section.


Counter arguements

1. Surfer's telepathy- He has it...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/TalestoAstonish093-Sub-Marineran-1.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SS_v4_006_17a.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SS_v4_006_17b.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3134p14.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3134p15.jpg


2. Doom as a Cosmic Kryptonian- It's only going to take a couple of seconds to change Doom into a Kryptonian, period. How do I know? Well first of all because a less experienced Eradicator's already cloned Supes's body from rock with ease. I know he's not my guy though so I'm not really going to try to defend his half of the workload and I'll just focus on Surfer's contribution. Fact of the matter is Surfer's Power Cosmic is perfect for powermeshing as he's demonstrated with the Molecule Man(which we've already shown), Dr. Strange, Odin, and I think Her(the female Warlock) as well. So as good as Erads normally is, he's going to be getting boosted by someone who can evolve an entire planet billions of years in a matter of moments or a body for Quasimodo in seconds...

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/transmutation/ffannual05-silversurfer04.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/transmutation/ffannual05-silversurfer05.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/combat/ffannual05-silversurfer06.jpg

And as for the time necessary for the power transfer I'd like to know how anyone interprets the 3 panels the process took as being a significant amount of time. Surfer spends a panel getting ready by focusing on the guy, then you see the power reaching the guy, then Surfer says the process is complete.

3. Our Sunlamps- Dude they're lights, just lights. I mean they are high tech, high powered lights, but does anyone really think it'll be difficult for Surfer to pull off(even at 90% power) when he can create anything he can imagine? I mean the guy can do something like like create a house with fully functional electronic equipment from nothing in a second...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1987_002_08.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1987_002_09.jpg

...and people think he's going to have a hard time with lights?

4. Surfer's power reserves- Transmutation isn't a big drain on Surfer's abilities. Hell in the scans we posted where he evolved that planet he was TRYING to burn out his power reserves and was unsuccessful in the effort. Not only is it not particularly taxing for him, he's going to be replentishing his own lost energies throughout prep. I mean the guy's not like a GL who has to set aside a minute to summon his power battery and say an oath, his energy gets replentished constantly unless he does something EXTREMELY draining.

Our Devices

1. You need proof of Doom knowing how to create energy absorbers? The guys history is littered with them... I can post examples if you need, but really? That's almost as bad as someone asking for proof that Hal knows how to make energy constructs.

2. The guy who's attack Doom's device stopped is the Overmind...

http://marvel.com/universe/Overmind

...and he's far from some two bit telepath.

3. Did you not see everyone who got effected by Doom's machine? There were numerous humans with exotic physiologies, the Super Skrull, and I don't even know who all else. But if what you guys are saying about the source for a Yellow Ring's power is accurate then it doesn't matter, I was just making sure you couldn't somehow amp off of our potential fears.

4. Forcefields are pretty standard. Since Doom's done it at least twice now(and maybe more, I'm still checking on that) I think it's safe to assume that he can cook up something. It may not be universally effective against every possible type of forcefield, but I think it's safe to assume that Doom could modify one to mess with MOST types of force fields with some help from his teamates and Kryptonian speed.

5. I can see how people might question this one but you see at least one suit of Doom's old suits of armor was powered by a small black hole, so he obviously knows how to manipulate/contain their effects.

*Note*
I can't for the life of me remember where I read about the mini blackhole in Doom's armor, but I'm working on tracking it down now. I'll post a scan to support the claim as soon as I get it or I'll tell everyone to dismiss it myself if I can't find it before the end of the match.


And now with that out of the way on to the offense takes the field...

Questions

1. Sersi transmuting herself and the Avengers, but where did it say that she turned them into "Kree" exactly? I mean I may have overlooked it and/or it may be covered elsewhere in the book(forgive me if that's the case), but where did it say that she did anything more than alter their appearance and clothes?

2. Assuming that she is somehow able to pull off altering their DNA into that of a Kryptonain, how is she going to grant herself and Sinestro Cyborg Supes's powers? Since he's physically identicle to Supes outside of being a cyborg we can't really say it's not really a cellular or genetic effect, so when did she gain the ability to "grant powers" on a whim?


Other stuff

Apparently bats and Kahn have decided that we won't be penalized this round so...


Anyway on with the battle.


Now I've heard lots of funny stuff about how "supperior" out opponents team is to ours, and I must say it's laughable all around. Stonger/faster.... . Our team features a blue sun amped Fortress mode Eradicator and guys who are equal to a blue sun amped Supes. Standard Supes is good so our opponents obviously have firepower, but we've seen how yellow sunamps boost Supes and blue sun energy is even more effective. Yeah they've got power rings from Sinestro, but we've got energy absorbers and and as this scan demonstrates...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GL033021-22.jpg


...energy absorption is something that even the best GL's are highly vulnerable to. Between Doom's devices and Surfer's own absorption skills the rings of our opponents team will be powerless in short order. That means no force fields, no constructs, no amping via rings, etc. They be trying to have 3 Kryptonians(who will be inherantly vulnerable to absorbing themselves)take on 3 yellow/blue sun amped Kryptonians, one of which is the Eradicator in Fortress mode to boot. Which means that they virtually no chance of even SURVIVING more than a minute or so of open combat, let alone "winning".

And if by some chance Sersi IS able to transmute her own form into that of a Kryptonian(something that's yet to be proven) itn means that when Surfer uses his Cosmic Awareness in the opening second of the match we won't be picking up the frequency of energy that harms Eternals, we'll be picking up that she's Kryptonian and the vulnerabilities of that particular race, so the "anti Sersi" blast will just use k-nite(probably gold K-nite since that the most effective) instead.




So to sum up

1. All our plans from prep will work.

2. Our energy absorption abilities spell doom for our power ring wielding opponents who's bodies are now fueled by solar energy.

3. With three yellow/blue sun amped Kryptonians on our sid(including Fortress Mode Erads) we're the most physically impressive guys on the field BY FAR.

4. The opposing team has NO counter for Doom's magic. Once he sticks someone in the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak they're going to be stuck there until we get around to finishing them off.

5. Even if by some off the wall chance our opponents were able to match us in strait up confrontation and most/all of our prep didn't work we'd still win because we've turned it into a numbers game. Even if she somehow survives the "Anti Sersi" blast, Sersi is going to be thrown from the area by our spacial energy wave for at least a few seconds which makes the fight 3 on 2 in our favor. Doom sticking someone in the Crimson Bands is to put yet another of their team out of comission which will leave them with one. Now Cyborg with a Sinestro ring would obviously be a tough opponent to take down for most characters, but it's going to be 3 on one against supperior opponents and he's not going to have a chance in that scenereo.

I think the ability to stroll through three posts of debating, reply to something in every post, and counter absolutely nothing is somewhat remarkable.

Originally posted by darthgoober

Errors in our precieved prep.

1. We're not giving Doom half of Surfer's power, we're giving him about 10% of it. A convenient claim to make now.

You didn't show a sharing of cosmic awareness. You showed Surfer concentrating for a few seconds, and showing Thing a mental image.

A few seconds = 1 solitary image.
How many seconds = the details of everything Surfer knows regarding everything Power Cosmic, and his knowledge of the Eternals and Sersi?

Since his sharing takes up only about a third of the 10 seconds, we can assume that Blair and Goob have extrapolated the ability to concentrate and share a mental image, to mean that Surfer can basically transmit the details of his history since becoming Galactus' herald, with what, one more second?

Hahaha.

Originally posted by darthgoober
2. Our sunlamps aren't "mini suns" they're sunlamps Fair enough, though that isn't what you said in your post.

You're right though, the power to create a lamp would be trivial. The reason being that the power that a lamp outputs is absolutely trivial.

They say the sun gives out every second about the amount of energy that mankind is estimated to have output up to this point.

Can you imagine how many lamps that is, constantly, all over the earth? And that accounts for an incredibly small fraction of a percent of what mankind uses every second.

The energy required to fuel kryptonians is so ridiculously higher than what's output by a household light. I mean, seriously? Why do you think it takes energy drainers so long to suck the energy out of Clark's cells? Why do you think that kryptonian power increases as exposure to the sun does, through a sundip?

The energy that a blue sun outputs would be even more, and you're suggesting to create both.

Please, if you have proof that a few watts will power planet pushers, feel free to share. Otherwise, let's accept that the kryptonian element of your plan is a dud, and move on.


Originally posted by darthgoober
1. Surfer's telepathy- He has it...


You need to show three things:

1. That Surfer can transfer his own memories and experiences, as well as accessing those of others, with enough clarity that the recipient can alter his behaviour and learning as if he himself experienced these things, thus allowing for the recipients of his powers to not kill themselves with the powers you've given them

2. That he can quickly and easily filter through years of data in both his head and others to be able to exchange relevant information without wading through irrelevant memories

3. That he can do both of the above things with the third of the 10 seconds that you've allotted him.

You have yet to prove any of these things. I brought up these points previously, and you posted more bushleague telepath feats.

It's akin to me showing Juggernaut punching somebody, then claiming that he has the martial prowess of Captain America.

Ten seconds is not a lot of time to work with. 5 minutes would be lots for most telepaths, but you have yet to post any feat of merit.

True, he's even glancing through someone's memories in those scans, but you can even tell by the depiction that he's not experiencing those things, only watching her experience them.

I could read 1000 superman comics, it doesn't mean I'd have any skill with kryptonian powers if I got them tomorrow. I haven't actually experienced anything, despite watching Clark experience them from birth.

Originally posted by darthgoober
2. Doom as a Cosmic Kryptonian. We already covered how you won't be able to actually use Doom's nonexistant kryptonian powers, due to not being able to power them up and not being able to transfer any memories to Doom, but I suppose nothing is stopping you from wasting even more time turning him kryptonian.

So, let's hash out why this, like every other item in your prep, will take significantly longer than you estimate.

You've taken scans, such as Eradicator telling a story that took place over what appeared to be a couple of days maybe, and assumed that a freeze frame of one action- turning the rock into a body- wouldn't take much time, despite the lack of indication of time. You've shown many transmutation feats that took longer than 15 seconds, and one that took less, and it was performed by Surfer, not Eradicator. Surfer may not even have the necessary knowledge since there's no actual telepath on your team to transfer that knowledge.

Other than that, it appeared in the scan to be as if Eradicator actually got the transmutation wrong- he said something was wrong with the eyes?- I may be reading that wrong, but it's a point that has yet to be addressed.

You've already claimed that your telepathy transfer will take ten seconds, which is clearly false.

You've also claimed that Doom can invent five devices he's not once shown before, that are far superior to devices he already owns, within the space of two minutes.

I haven't even gotten into how you've claimed that you're going to completely rewrite and remodel a kryptonian doomsday device in 30 seconds, or how you are going to outfit your entire team with ridiculous defenses in 30 seconds, based off of scans that all take longer than that.

The point is that you're already running incredibly short on time. You've also diverted Surfer's power and stripped Doom of his armor, which will all only hinder your efforts.

There is absolutely no way you're going to fit in all those things, and find time to do this, based on little to no evidence that you can accomplish it in any short amount of time.

Originally posted by darthgoober
4. Surfer's power reserves I only really attacked his power reserves when you claimed to be pouring the energies of two suns into Doom's armor.

Now that you've rescinded that claim, and we've accepted that the kryptonian powers will simply remain dormant for the match, the big drains on his powers are simply that you're giving part to Doom (useless, now that he has no armor or alien powers), and that you're attempting to transmute everything within sight, create black holes, etc.

I'll let the judges decide exactly how taxed he is- we do know for certain that he's more taxed than any one of our team members though, who are all wielding fully charged power rings.

Originally posted by darthgoober
1. You need proof of Doom knowing how to create energy absorbers? Hey, I don't need proof that Doom can make an energy absorber.

I need proof that in a few seconds Doom can draw up the plans for a device that can absorb any energy, ever.

Or, barring that, that he has devices to absorb any energy, ever.

You see, if he is missing types of energy, we'll know immediately- we're auto-synched with every element of tech on this battlefield. It'll be no problem for us to instantly know what you're missing, and auto-adapt with any of our power sets for whatever energy you're not looking out for.



Originally posted by darthgoober
2. The guy who's attack Doom's device stopped is the Overmind...


So you've proven capable of blocking a manifested bolt of mental energy from the Overmind.

When you don't have a physical target to hold up your device against, as Doom does in the picture, you'll be SOL. Sersi doesn't even bother with physically manifested mental energy most of the time- her specialty is illusions, and she's fully capable of any sort of psychic intrusion.

Originally posted by darthgoober
3. Did you not see everyone who got effected by Doom's machine? Right, different physiologies which Doom would know about and prep for, I would assume. It's Doom. Prep is his thing.

There's absolutely nothing shown to indicate that it works on every being, ever. Especially since by this point you already claim to have manifested psychic blockers. I assume this device would have a way around your blockers, if any judge actually believes that there scan blocks anything other than a mental bolt of energy. If you did somehow make mental blockers, and this device works around them, then we, through out tech-tapping, would know that method around immediately.

Originally posted by darthgoober
4. Forcefields are pretty standard. .. Doom could modify one to mess with MOST types of force fields with some help from his teamates and Kryptonian speed.

First, let me remind you that speed in no way extends the prep time. So kryptonian speed doesn't aid here.

Further more- Doom did twice make a device to take down a type of forcefield. They were two different devices, with different methods specifically picked for different forcefields.

So congrats. Had we drafted the guy in the first scan, or Sue Storm, you may have had something.

But we didn't, and it's ridiculous to assess based off of those scans that Doom, in a few seconds, can invent a device to negate every forcefield, ever. We'll have kryptonian, Oan, Qwardian, war world, apokalyptian, earthling and god knows what other tech at our disposal. And, thanks to our technopathy, we'll immediately know what type of forcefields will and won't work. It's a non-issue.

Originally posted by darthgoober
5. I can see how people might question this one Well, that's at least one issue that you can admit is a little far-fetched. Now let's work on the other 20.

Team JaketheBank/Original Smurph aka Team Awesome
Post #6/10

I was thinking about waiting for another response for our oppenents, but I figured I may as well address some other points and shed more light on what our team is truly capable of (and hopefully spur on some more debating through out the tournament).

Since my partner already did a bang up job of supporting our claims during prep and overall battle strategy as well as dismantle our oppenent's, I'm going to use this oppertunity to display just what our team is truly capable of.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/704/adventuresofsuperman468lh8.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9011/adventuresofsuperman468gv4.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7145/adventuresofsuperman468uo1.jpg

If you take a look at the above scans, you'll note that this is an earlier Henshaw, his consciousness inside the very same birthing matrix that sent Superman to Earth. In this state, he had already suceeded in absorbing all knowledge of Earthly science as well as all the information stored inside the matrix itself. And here, without a real body, Henshaw was already capable of discharging a blast of energy capable of harming Superman.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9466/returnofsuperman082ac8.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9289/returnofsuperman083cd4.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5482/returnofsuperman084ot3.jpg

These scans here show us the makeup of a very early Henshaw, the time when he first arrived in fully decked "Cyborg Superman" mode. Thanks in part to Sersi's superior transmutation and molecular manipulation (which has been proven and shown time and time again), this is but a low grade sample of what Sersi and Sinestro would be upgraded to, keeping in mind that the Cyborg shown here is pretty fresh and hasn't assimilated years worth of tech and the like. Physically making all of us Cyborg Superman is not a problem. How about mentally tranfering all of our memories, enabling us all to share each other thoughts and experiences?

Unlike our oppenents, we have several ways of accomplishing this. Sersi's telepathy (again shown to be much more formidable than Surfer's) can easily "upload" the information to herself and her peers. Need more proof?

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4637/returnofsuperman168wy2.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/645/returnofsuperman169ce7.jpg

Here Henshaw uplinks with the White House database, melding with their computers while simataneously gaining any and all information from them. Seeing as how Sersi and Sinesto will each be Cyborgs themselves, what's to stop Henshaw from simply synching up with fellow machines and uploading his own experience and skill with technopathy/technomorphing as well as the ease in which he uses Kryptonian powers? Nothing. And again, that's a rather early showing of Cyborg Superman. The "vet" Cyborg we're using is years more advanced (both in publication history and in character history) and is more than capable of sharing thoughts simataneously with multiple computers/machines.

Not only that, the power rings themselves are capable of mentally transmiting data as well as outright telepathy:

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl51_14.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/gltelepathy1.jpg

http://img496.imageshack.us/img496/4066/flash222044gd.jpg

http://img496.imageshack.us/img496/398/flash222083bb.jpg

Between all three members of our team sharing memories and skills of each member, and with all three members now possessing super computer minds to superiorly process said information, it can easily be said that we're not only going to be capable of transforming into Cyborg Kryptonians, but our knowledge and mastery of our newfound powers will easily dwarf our oppenent's. This will further translate into team coodination as well as match presence, knowing exactly what's going on through out every phase of the battle. Simply put, our team is just a well oiled machine, each member perfectly melded with one another.

In comparison, you have:

Dr. Doom, who relinquished his armor in favor of 10% of the Power Cosmic and a Kryptonian powerset that is highly unlikely his team can give him, much less give him mastery in its useage.

Silver Surfer, who is operating on 90% of the Power Cosmic and also given a powerset that is unlikely for him to attain much less weild properly.

And Eradicator, who's hanging back, watching his team get slaughtered.

None of whom can share each other's thoughts on the fly or with the ease that we can during battle, none of whom can match our sheer energy output/manipulation, strength, speed, durability, or recovery factor. I'm not going to even begin to touch on the "sunlamp" strategem. I would have found it much more plausible for Surfer to just pump up someone on the team that now had "kryptonian powers" with yellow/blue solar radiation than for the team to create a device which will grant them the effects of said radiation on a level in which it would actually matter. As a technopath and genius of the highest order, Henshaw would be more than capable of that, but in the scale and the usage you're proposing during prep time?

Summary:

-Our team is more than capable of achieving our prep in the form of transforming Sersi and Sinestro into Cyborg Kryptonians.
-Our team is more than capable of sharing experiences, skills, and memories, either through Sersi's telepathy, Henshaw linking up with their cybornetic parts, or with the power rings they now each possess. And with all of these options, why choose when we can effectively do it all?
-Our team has much more to offer when it comes to communication, teamwork, and overall effectiveness, something that can easily be overlooked when it comes to team battles.
-Our team is likewise far more formidable as a whole with access to Kryptonian powers (and the knowledge in how to use them effectively, something our oppenent's have not accurately displayed being capable of doing), technopathy/technomorphing of the highest order, and mastery of Qwardian rings. We're not going to be outmuscled, outmanuvered, out-thought, or outgunned here, plain and simple. We're not going to be outmatched, period.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
A convenient claim to make now.

I assure you it's not a claim we're just making now, it was our intent all along. We had specific numbers in our rough draft of our opening post but they got edited out somewhere along the way. But you can look at this portion of the original post to see that we were never giving away a significant portion when we said Surfer was giving up a small portion of his Power Cosmic.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
You didn't show a sharing of cosmic awareness. You showed Surfer concentrating for a few seconds, and showing Thing a mental image.



Sure I did, you need to see more

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3127p08.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3127p09.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3127p10.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1997_133_17.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1997_133_18.jpg



Originally posted by Original Smurph
Fair enough, though that isn't what you said in your post.

You're right though, the power to create a lamp would be trivial. The reason being that the power that a lamp outputs is absolutely trivial.


Uh... yeah it is. Our opening posts clear states that we're creating sun lamps. When I said they emitted the same energy as a yellow and blue sun I was talking about the TYPE of energy, not the amount. We're not trying to create lights that will illuminate the solar system after all, just enough for the prep lounge. I mean Ruin can bring Supes down with red sunlamps

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/2674412_drain3.jpg

...and you really think it's outlandish to think that he could be empowered by lamps that produce yellow and blue sunlamps?



Originally posted by Original Smurph
You need to show three things:

So NOW I need to show all those things do I? Originally it was...

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Normally such issues would be trivial and not worth finding proof of, since they're fairly standard for any telepath- but they don't have a telepath!

If Surfer was a legitimate telepath, sharing his plan here should have been easy- but note that he says that he needs to give away half of his cosmic power to do so-


...all a matter of whether or not Surfer had actual telepathy, but now that I've shown that he does in fact have it we need more specific feats right .




Originally posted by Original Smurph
We already covered how you won't be able to actually use Doom's nonexistant kryptonian powers, due to not being able to power them up and not being able to transfer any memories to Doom, but I suppose nothing is stopping you from wasting even more time turning him kryptonian.

Even if by some stretch of the imagination our mind link was unsuccessful, you're seriously overestimating the trouble Doom would have using Supes's powers.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
I only really attacked his power reserves when you claimed to be pouring the energies of two suns into Doom's armor.


Well as we've already covered, I was never making the claim that Surfer would be pouring the energy of two suns into Doom's armor but here's a few things just so there's no question as to whether or not Surfer will have the power to fullfill his part of the game...

Surfer spends a quarter of an hour channeling billions of terawatts of power into repairing the damage done by Molecule Man and the Beyonder.
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/Power/Avengers266-11.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/Power/Avengers266-12.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/Power/Avengers266-13.jpg

Now Surfer was unsuccessful in his attempt in the above scans(damage was done by the Beyonder and Molecule Man after all), but that should pretty concretely prove that Surfer could spend the ENTIRE 5 minute prep period transmuting everything in sight, and still not end up low on power from it. And the kicker is, the above scans are from Surfer's "depowered" period.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
Hey, I don't need proof that Doom can make an energy absorber.

I need proof that in a few seconds Doom can draw up the plans for a device that can absorb any energy, ever.

Or, barring that, that he has devices to absorb any energy, ever.
Dude, his energy absorbers have stolen power from the Surfer, a Watcher, Galactus, Franklin Richards, and God only knows who all else. It's pretty much common knowledge that if Doom wants someone's energy and has a little prep, he's gonna get it.

Also, is "auto adapting" even allowed in this thing? Sounds a lot like
HP Doomsday type stuff, and I'm pretty sure that kind of thing was banned. Even if not, it also seems to fall into the category of "power copying".

You're also over exaggerating our need here, we don't need a device capable of absorbing any energy ever, just one capable of absorbing the energy from your power rings and characters. And if Doom can create a device that absorbs power from Surfer, I think it's safe to say that he can build one that's able to absorb power from you and your rings.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
So you've proven capable of blocking a manifested bolt of mental energy from the Overmind.

When you don't have a physical target to hold up your device against, as Doom does in the picture, you'll be SOL. Sersi doesn't even bother with physically manifested mental energy most of the time- her specialty is illusions, and she's fully capable of any sort of psychic intrusion.
Not only will Doom be safely behind the shield of the Eradicator, Doom's got one of the strongest will's in comics bar none, even if we didn't have the defices(which we do) Sersi would be hard pressed to pull off anything against him.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
Right, different physiologies which Doom would know about and prep for, I would assume. It's Doom. Prep is his thing.

There's absolutely nothing shown to indicate that it works on every being, ever. Especially since by this point you already claim to have manifested psychic blockers. I assume this device would have a way around your blockers, if any judge actually believes that there scan blocks anything other than a mental bolt of energy. If you did somehow make mental blockers, and this device works around them, then we, through out tech-tapping, would know that method around immediately.
Well lets see, he gains knowledge of Kryptonian Physiology from Erads so there's no problem there, and he's an expert on Surfer so I don't really see a problem there either(especially since Surfer will be welcoming the effect). But like I said these devices are irrelevant given the way the fight went down. See I found a way that you COULD have amped your power if we didn't have the device so I made it just in case, but since you are either oblivious to the method or are saving it for a future round whether or not we have them this round is completely inconsequential.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
First, let me remind you that speed in no way extends the prep time. So kryptonian speed doesn't aid here.




Actually I believe it was the speed force which was banned from extending prep time, I haven't actually seen a rule against super speed in general. I mean if I just missed that notice then feel free to point it out, but I'm pretty sure it was just the Speed Force that was banned. But even if I'm wrong it still doesn't matter as I was just pointing out his now Kryptonian speed to cement it, even without super speed his mind works as quickly as a sophisticated computer and instantly assimilate raw data

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomIntellect08373.jpg

So with info from Erads and Surfer about GL rings and various "cosmic force fields" it should be childs play for Doom to slightly alter one of his existing devices.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Well, that's at least one issue that you can admit is a little far-fetched. Now let's work on the other 20.
Only far fetched to those who are unfamiliar with Doom and his accomplishments(which is why I said SOME people).

Originally posted by Original Smurph

Ok so I'm seeing lots of scans, but not a single one that indicate that she's actually changing "them" rather than just their appearance. Remember what you said earlier...

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Seriously guys, I know he's smart, but if he was capable of inventing such devices in two minutes (which is time he doesn't have anyways), then he wouldn't be allowed in this tournament because he'd have invented himself beyond herald level, and stayed there.


...well by the same token it can be said that if Sersi was capable of what you're suggesting in 5 minutes then she wouldn't be allowed in this tourney because she already would have made herself and the rest of the Eternals into "transendant" characters via transmutation.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
We only need the powers granted by the kryptonian element and the cyborg element, which allow us complete machine interface, kryptonian powers (without the usual light dependency), and the technological transmorphing.


His technopathy doesn't stem from his cybernetics, his cybernetics extend from his technopathy. So even if you were able to turn your team into cyborgs(something that still hasn't been proven), you'd just have Kryptonian Cyborgs, not a team with Cyborg Supes's powers.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
First off, I think we're all have our doubts that you'll have anything in the way of kryptonian firepower.

Secondly, even if you did? We'd still be stronger and faster. We actually have experience with these powers- your only experienced kryptonian is sitting in the back. Secondly, with Hank's mind, we think and adapt far faster than our opponents. Hank is capable of instantly scanning and adapting to any scenario. He took a second to calculate the trajectory he would need to toss Doomsday from earth to Apokolips, and did so. We're super computers. Super computers amped by kryptonian reflexes and Qwardian rings, which as my parter showed give huge speed boosts themselves.



Hey you'll get no objections from me that Cyborg is supperior to standard Supes, but none of your scans featured Supes sun amped by yellow and blue solar energy did they? And they damn sure didn't feature a blue sun amped Fortress Mode Eradicator.

As for speed, Surfer can calculate his exact position in the universe by simaltaniously noting the locations of billions upon billions of individual stars as they wizz by as FTL speeds

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3006/silversurfer199612206jx3.jpg

...and you really think that Hanks mind works faster than Surfer's because of how he calculated DD's course through space... . And if you're basing it off of your rings ability to amp your speed, then what feats has Sinestro pulled off that give us an idea of how much of an amp his rings and knowledge can give?


Originally posted by Original Smurph
That scan demonstrates preparation to specifically take out GL rings- not something you've done.


Sure we did, we created energy absorbers remember?

Any proof you'll be able to create a "Kryptonian gunship" on the fly in the middle of a blackhole WHILE you're being bombarded with magic, cosmic blast, etc?


Originally posted by Original Smurph
However, if you're referring to the current match.... no.
Sure it is, just read my previous posts to see why.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Your energy absorption is limited to Surfer, who you've already commited to making more and more black holes (which we've proven to be immune to; he'll waste his time and energy), and to making an anti-sersi attack, not realizing that she won't even be directly engaging him, and that he'd have to somehow barrel through two of his superiors to accomplish this.
Nope, we'll have them and your team is screwed.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
Doom has 10% of Surfer's power, no armor, and either no kryptonian powers, no solar to power his kryptonian powers, or simply no experience with those powers.

Doom has all that stuff.




Originally posted by Original Smurph
Anyways, we'll wipe him out of existence before he can think "Cyttorak".

Also, I thought I'd point out here that Sersi has manipulated magic before-

She turned Thor to a frog with relative ease

Here she modulates Mjolnir to increase its effectiveness-
http://img224.imageshack.us/i/modulatemjolnirqn5.jpg/
http://img442.imageshack.us/i/modulatemjolnir2tz3.jpg/

So she's not a stranger to magic, and is capable of manipulating it. Given her huge speed boost, both in physical and thinking speed, it should be reasonable for her to protect herself from any effect.
Transmuting Thor or helping him out with teleportation via moldulating field isn't really the same as "manipulating magic". What does she have that actually suggest that she(or any other memeber of your team for that matter) will be able to escape the Crimson Bands?


Originally posted by Original Smurph
Recap:

-They have no capacity to be kryptonian, to power kryptonians or to transfer kryptonian memories. Three huge leaps of faith if their prep is to be taken seriously

-They have no capacity to invent 5 uber devices on the fly, all of which appear to be just like devices that Doom's previously spent developing, except better in every fashion. He can't make all these improvements if the whole prep time were given to him, much less just two minutes.

-These leaves Doom as armor-less, tech-less, and kryptonian DNA-less.... so the fight is immediately two on one.

-Consequentially, Surfer won't have kryptonian powers either, and will have already lost more than a tenth of his power.

-Erads is staying as back up- after we quickly dispose of Surfer, it's a three on one fight that our guys are far more equipped for

-They came to a fight with pretty much the best technopath in comics, with a shitload of technology. They could have anticipated that we would be able to replicate the rings, and they actually split up and wasted their energy powers. Then they knew we'd have a team full of heavy hitters, and kept their heaviest hitter in the back. This entire fight was just a demonstration on how a sheer lack of foresight can obliterate one's chances.

-Even if they drain us of any one ring, we immediately substitute with tech from all over the DC universe. Even if they hurt Sersi, we already had the majority in numbers, and Surfer will have wasted his time and his tactical position by diving for her- eliminating him should be a quick matter afterwards. It's all just poor planning.

-Sure we do, we have two of the best matter manipulator's in comics, one of which is an expert on Kryptonian DNA.

-We don't have to "invent" them, we just have to create them. Doom's history is filled with devices similar to the one's we created, they just need to be slightly reconfigured to suit our needs. And that kind of reconfiguration is fairly easy with the Power Cosmic...
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4025/silversurfer198700521ts3.jpg

-Uh... no.

-Sure he will.

-You can't manipulate our tech Smurph, it's built INTO the Eradicator so your trying to manipulate it would constitute manipulating your opponents body. We DID antisipate that you'd replicate your rings, which is why we have energy absorbers. I'll let Blair defend Erads but it should be noted that he's not refusing to engage, he's just holding back and can jump in at any time.

-Who said we'd only drain one ring?


Now judges here are some things for you to consider from our side...

1. Smurph's putting too much stock in the amount of info we need to gain from our mindlink(which according to him, any legitimate telepath could pull off). Doom's already used the powers of the Silver Surfer with extreme effectivenes, and Surfer has all of Supes's abilites and then some. Aside from that, Kryptonain powers aren't exactly quantum physics anyway. Just look how quickly Pa Kent adapts after recieving them

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Action857-14-1.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Action857-15-1.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Action857-16-1.jpg

Now does anyone really believe that Doom's going to be running into walls or anything like that when Pa Kent didn't?

The only things we really NEED to transfer is enough knowledge of Kryptoinian DNA for Surfer to help Erads change Doom's genetic structure, Erads knowledge on things like GL's, and knowledge of Doom's devices to Erads so he can help Doom out with transmutation. Anything beyond that is just icing on the cake.

2. Sersi's going to be thrown from the battlefield within a second or two of the battle starting by our spatial energy wave and won't be able to lend any help regardless. When she's gone and either Cyborg or Sinistro are trapped in the Crimson Bands, the third guys going down QUICK.

3. We have energy absorbers, they have a demonstrated vulnerability to energy absorption.

4. We have magic, they have no legitimate counter for it even in general, let alone a specific counter for the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak.

5. We don't need to be anywhere near as effective as Smurph's implying for us to win this thing in a sweep. We don't need to "invent" our devices from scratch, we just need Doom to make some slight alterations on some of his existing devices. We don't need to be able to absorb any type of energy ever, we just need to be able to absorb energy from their power rings and persons. We don't need to nullify every type of forcefield ever, just the type our opponents are using. We don't need Surfer to take out the other team solo, he's still got Dr. Doom and Eradicator watching his back.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure I did, you need to see more
The original "sharing of cosmic awareness" bit that you brought up was in context of telepathy and sharing knowledge.

These scans do nothing to support those effort. Look pretty though.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I mean Ruin can bring Supes down with red sunlamps

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/2674412_drain3.jpg

...and you really think it's outlandish to think that he could be empowered by lamps that produce yellow and blue sunlamps?Yes. Hell yes that's outlandish.

Red sun doesn't work like either yellow or blue sun radiation.

Yellow and blue sun radiation fill Kryptonian's cells, grant certain powers and so on. They depend on the amount of solar energy absorbed, which is why power levels vary depending on the proximity to the sun- the mere presence of solar energy is not enough, it needs to fill up the inner energy battery that kryptonians essentially are.

Red sun radiation does NOT do the reverse- all that red sun radiation does is "freeze" the solar energy inside the cells, not allowing the kryptonian to access it. It doesn't drain energy, it doesn't depower, it just locks the energy away. It doesn't need to fill cells. Consequentially, the mere presence of red run rays can leave Clark without access.

Consequentially, red sun lamps like those used by Ruin and Batman are effective, since Clark just needs to be hit by them while without solar light.

Here, Batman can explain it-
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/8448/67746425.jpg http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/67746425.jpg/1/w1280.png

In there he accounts for the short amount of time that red sun rays take to do their stuff.

They are NOT comparable to yellow sun rays, and so I hope you have other proof to back up your prep, because otherwise you're hooped, my friend.



Originally posted by darthgoober
So NOW I need to show all those things do I? Originally it was... It's kind of funny, what you do here. You don't actually respond to any of the points that I made (presumably because you can't), and instead choose to attack what I said earlier and then proceed to act as if you've actually established a point.

When I said it shouldn't be a matter of question for any legitimate telepath, I didn't mean anybody legitimately possessing something that could be labeled as telepathy. I meant somebody with legitimate skill as a telepath. Somebody that regularly demonstrated skill in the power- I wouldn't ask for a specific feat then, because clearly they're capable and accomplished.

You, however, have yet to show anything demonstrating skill as a telepath. If you had him instantly learning vast amounts of information from unsuspecting minds, as Sersi has done, or stalemateing Exodus and commenting on his lack of skill, as Sersi has done, then it wouldn't really be up for debate.

You have yet to show anything other then rudimentary "let me hear your thoughts k?" telepathy.

If you had even basic feats that correlated loosely to what I was asking for, they would have served as a better response. Since you posted nothing, I'm gonna assume that that's a concession that they don't exist, and move on under the assumption that we've both realized your lack of capability to do anything you've claimed you can under the "telepathy" section in your prep, and certainly not in the 10 seconds that you've alloted for them.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Dude, his energy absorbers have stolen power from the Surfer, a Watcher, Galactus, Franklin Richards, and God only knows who all else. It's pretty much common knowledge that if Doom wants someone's energy and has a little prep, he's gonna get it. "a little prep" has never in Doom's history consisted of 20 seconds to make something superior to any energy absorber he's ever made, ever....

He worked long and hard on each of those devices you described, and none of them were claimed to work on any energy in the universe.

Furthermore, the Qwardian energy that you think will be drained doesn't even exist in the Marvel Universe, so clearly he's never invented something to absorb it before. If Eradicator is supposed to know the specs on Qwardian energy to make this device work, I'd like proof?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Also, is "auto adapting" even allowed in this thing? Sounds a lot like
HP Doomsday type stuff. No. What Doomsday does, like what Darwin does, is outside of his control- his body automatically changes to overcome challenges. We're just extremely smart shapeshifters, with superspeed and the capacity to instantly learn what you're attacking us with. Which means we can consciously force our bodies to change to our specifics, which is clearly different from Doomsday.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And if Doom can create a device that absorbs power from Surfer, I think it's safe to say that he can build one that's able to absorb power from you and your rings.I don't. As you said, he's an expert in Surfer- he's spent eons learning about the power cosmic and how to control it.

In contrast, he here has 20 seconds to make a device to absorb a type of power that none of his compadres know the specifics of with any certainty.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not only will Doom be safely behind the shield of the Eradicator, Doom's got one of the strongest will's in comics bar none, even if we didn't have the defices(which we do) Sersi would be hard pressed to pull off anything against him. First off, as you pointed out, the devices are inside Eradiactor- the specific mindblast blocking device that you're replicating needs to be wielded by hand, as shown in your scans. So Doom won't have much going for him.

Secondly, lol? Your will power > Exodus' mental defenses?

Sersi can mess with the thoughts of any being less telepathically adept than her-
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4302/wcannual0422cn3.jpg

Sersi mindblast's Exodus while weakened, and completely disables him-
http://img459.imageshack.us/i/blackknightexodus35hl1.jpg/

Originally posted by darthgoober
Actually I believe it was the speed force which was banned from extending prep time, I haven't actually seen a rule against super speed in general. Opening post, no extending the time in any way.



Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok so I'm seeing lots of scans, but not a single one that indicate that she's actually changing "them" rather than just their appearance.

...well by the same token it can be said that if Sersi was capable of what you're suggesting in 5 minutes then she wouldn't be allowed in this tourney because she already would have made herself and the rest of the Eternals into "transendant" characters via transmutation. The difference here, as I'm sure you're well aware, is that Sersi's powers are never used to their maximum potential. Doom's intellect, however, is always used to its max, which it what makes him so impressive in comics.

Furthermore, I have the scans proving that she's changing them. She says she's rearranging their molecules, you can see the people changing subtly (in facial structure), or drastically, by being turned into Deviants, pigs or Kree.

Not really sure what else you want. If you would like to ignore Sersi's entire history as a character specializing in matter transmutation, ok, do so. I don't really understand the concept of her claiming to have transformed men into pigs, everybody else in comics agreeing, and you disagreeing- what, is she dressing men up in pigs costumes?

Unofficial Post

I was just going to tell everyone that I've been talking to Blair and he DOES plan on posting but he's been having RL issues all week and it might not be until sometime tomorrow afternoon. Since Smurph and Jake are running low on posts and they will undoubtedly want to answer all the stuff Blair in addition to them doing their wrap up if Smurph/Jake and the judges are ok with it I think it'd be a good idea to extend the end of the match untill 10 PM or so just to help make sure there's time all around and they don't have to stress about whether or not to use all their posts or wait for Blair in case he doesn't get stuff posted until 3 or 4 PM. But that's only if everyone's ok with it, we can go ahead with the schedualed time limit if it's what everyone else would prefer. Just thought I'd give a heads up after reading what leo wrote about last minute posts.

I would appreciate the time to respond to whatever it is that Blair has to write... thanks for the notice, Goob.

I wouldn't like to extend it much further than that, but that would be fine.

Sorry about being so late to the game. Hopefully this makes up for it.

Our Teams Capabilities:

Eradicator being underestimated:

You guys pretty much ignored Eradicator, favoring Silver Surfer instead. However its the combination of knowledge and power that Eradicator has, which coupled with this team that makes him a very valuable asset. More specifically, being the keeper of knowledge of all things Kryptonian (things like tech, science, genetics, history, ect ect) gives us the edge over a team that decided to become Kryptonian Cyborgs (this will come into play later).

First however, let me educate you on some of Eradicator's feats, broken down in category.

Energy Manipulation:

Absorbing and Re channeling sun's RED energy (he had turned the sun red). He absorbs all kinds of energy from any colored sun as yellow also powers him up:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8559/supermanv2057p24qj3.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/243/sundipmn9.jpg

Matter Manipulation:

Advanced molecular control. Here, he fashions the highly advanced kryptonian FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE out of simple Ice and Rock. On top of that he also mind controls the humans into thinking they are kryptonians.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/6528/adventuresofsuperman460ci9.jpg
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/9687/adventuresofsuperman460ym9.jpg
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3287/adventuresofsuperman460sl1.jpg
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4489/adventuresofsuperman460rb4.jpg

Transmutation of Lincoln from a Tank:
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1296/fleshmanip15is.jpg
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5451/fleshmanip21kd.jpg

Made an entire building complex stocked with provisions:
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3715/mattermanip3ku.jpg
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4467/mattermanip15iv.jpg

Telepathy

Telepathy had made Superman repress his humanity:
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/237/manipulatinglivingflesh8cr.jpg

Heck, his telepathy was able to intrude into Maxima's hold over Clark, and Maxima is a high order telepath:
http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actioncomics651p17lp7.jpg

Eradicator messes with Matrix Super girl/man's mind into thinking he/she is Clark Kent Superman, even going so far as giving him/her faux heat vision:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4585/adventuresofsuperman457kj0.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8990/adventuresofsuperman457nb9.jpg
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/237/adventuresofsuperman457el8.jpg
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/2040/adventuresofsuperman457ss6.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/5865/actioncomics644p04nt9.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4589/actioncomics644p07lp6.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5223/actioncomics644p09bn0.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1749/actioncomics644p14tq7.jpg

Reading Superman's mind:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6803/adventuresofsuperman480so4.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6844/adventuresofsuperman480yz9.jpg

Simple touch changes a man's mind:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9755/mindcontrol3lu.jpg

Eradicator imprinting and thus gaining a women's life time of memories by a simple touch. To say our ability to mindlink cannot happen is ludicrous:
http://img228.imageshack.us/i/eradsarahou6.jpg/

Physical Stats:

Vs Superman. He burns Mr. I can live in the Sun.:
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8726/supermanv2057p34wd3.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/117/supermanv2057p35xz6.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5688/supermanv2057p36ig3.jpg

Vs Superman in Fortress Mode:
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/267/manofsteel114p11zu4.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5743/manofsteel114p14ae1.jpg

Vs. Superman and David Conner
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/3442/manofsteel098p145kh.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/8505/manofsteel098p154xs.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4216/manofsteel098p176ay.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/7084/manofsteel098p193mm.jpg

Dooms tech + Power Cosmic:
Let us get a few things clear about Doom's technology and his use of the Power Cosmic

1) He's creating it through the power cosmic, instantly.

He has already invented these machines, so we are not pulling any of them out of our asses. The foundation is there to prove that he can create these inventions, they are simply slightly modified to fit our needs. To imply that Doom cannot create these is simply your job as the opposing team, but intellectually no one can deny Doom's ability to do so. Combined with the Power Cosmic he has shown the ability to instantly create weapons:

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1690/9itemcreationls7.jpg

As far as the technology we have designed we have already stated and shown that Doom has created them. However, since you asked for further clarification on them, lets solidify even further in the judges mind our ability to create and use these devices. Darth has covered most of them, so let me focus on a few.

Energy Absorbers

The energy absorbers seem to be popular so lets start there. I would rather the scans do the talking so here is a showcase of some of Doom's simplest energy absorbing technology:

Absorbing Franklin's Powers with just his personal absorbing modules:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomArmor44-PersonalAdaptersHeroesR.jpg

Absorbing HyperStorm's energy:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomPowerCosmicSiphonHarness05409.jpg

Doom's technology absorbing Cosmic Spiderman's powers without the knowledge of what type of energy it is! He wants to analyze it to be able to see how it functions. This shows that he does not need to know all there is to know about an energy before he can absorb it:
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3905/webofspiderman06018re2.jpg

Force Field Nullifiers



The reason we put this here is due to the fact that Eradicator has dealt with Sinestro's very own yellow ring. While we know the energy absorbers will work, both Darth and I like giving the judges more to put their faith in. Especially specific measures in which they can put their faith in.

Eradicator Vs. Guy with Sinestro's Yellow Ring
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/9990/actioncomics688156rp.jpg
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8013/actioncomics688160mf.jpg

In addition, the first scan of Doom bypassing the forcefield was not him being prepped as far as I know. It was a multi purpose anti forcefield energizer.

Psi-Refractors

Doom created a Psi reflector of sorts, has ample anti telepathy devices in his armor, and now he cannot create one again? Especially when he holds the power cosmic? Here is an example of the Power Cosmic creating a forcefield against Psychic attacks:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/Surfercreatesforcefieldimmunetopsyc.jpg

When you are Doom, you can do as you damn well please.

2) He's creating them to be stored inside Eradicator

The reason that we did not bring Doom's armor onto the playing field, and embedded the technology in Eradicator was due to Cyborg Superman's technopathy. To imply that you could control or copy the technology would assume you can matter manipulate Eradicator or that you have the necessary time to analyze, shift, and implement our technology. This is simply not the case in either scenario due to the tournament rules and the battle scenario you found yourself in.

With Doom's intelligence, ability to create weapons instantly, and cause sudden biological change, implementing these devices into Eradicator should be easy as pie. Add to this the fact that Eradicator has shared with him all the relevant data on himself, and is helping facilitate the process, our ability to do so should really not be questioned.

Suddenly creates weapons:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1690/9itemcreationls7.jpg

Sudden Biological Change:
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/3527/16freezesislandevolutiohh0.jpg

Unofficial Post

Just thought I'd point out that batdude extended round 1 until tomorrow at 5 in case Smurph came strait to this thread to post without checking the discussion thread first.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
The original "sharing of cosmic awareness" bit that you brought up was in context of telepathy and sharing knowledge.

These scans do nothing to support those effort. Look pretty though.
Actually it was both the obtaining and sharing of knowledge. I know you have to interpret the first instance differently because otherwise your case is shot, but I believe that the judges will agree. The second two were just other instances of Surfer sharing his cosmic awareness to show that he's done it multiple times, all he did was change what was picked up.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Yes. Hell yes that's outlandish.

Red sun doesn't work like either yellow or blue sun radiation.
How long have they known it worked differently Smurph? People functioned for years thinking differently than Batman discovered, it's obviously a suble difference. Do you think guys like Ruin and Lex Luthor intentionally went out with Red Sun weapons that they knew couldn't touch the levels of solar energy necessesary to replace the yellow solar energy in Supes's cells with Red? Solar radiation is an easy enough effect to simulate even in extremely high quantities, that's why you can tan faster in a tanning bed than in the sun and grow better plants indoors with special lights.



Originally posted by Original Smurph
It's kind of funny, what you do here. You don't actually respond to any of the points that I made (presumably because you can't), and instead choose to attack what I said earlier and then proceed to act as if you've actually established a point.
Smurph if you yourself acknowledge that it's a relatively simple feat for an actual telepath and I've shown that Surfer's got actual telepathy and has some impressive telepathic feats under his belt like broadcasting from a galaxy away, then it DOES establish a point because I've shown that the plot specific requirements you're now asking for are(in your words) "trivial and not worth finding proof of".

The fact that Surfer doesn't use telepathy all that often doesn't take away from the fact that he's got skills in that department and the effect we're going for isn't all that difficult. Not to mention the facts that we don't need to transfer much info, and he's doing it in conjuction with Erads who Blair just showed is also an accomplished telepath.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
"a little prep" has never in Doom's history consisted of 20 seconds to make something superior to any energy absorber he's ever made, ever....
The two most impressive absorbers he's ever created completely drained the Beyonder and Galactus pretty much instantly, both of those are far more impressive that what we're shooting for here. Another one drained Aaron the Watcher in a second or so, and I'm pretty sure that one's more impressive too. Freakin Iron Man has absorbers like the one's we're talking about now(his are lower in power course), and you think DOOM can't make them?



Originally posted by Original Smurph
No. What Doomsday does, like what Darwin does, is outside of his control- his body automatically changes to overcome challenges. We're just extremely smart shapeshifters, with superspeed and the capacity to instantly learn what you're attacking us with. Which means we can consciously force our bodies to change to our specifics, which is clearly different from Doomsday.

Very possible, I just pointed it out cause you used "auto adapt" in the description. Still, if you're talking about building the stuff we build into the Eradicator into yourselves, it definately qualifies as power copying.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
I don't. As you said, he's an expert in Surfer- he's spent eons learning about the power cosmic and how to control it.
"Eons" Smurph? How old do you think Doom was when he first encountered Surfer before the start of Surfer's first series? Surfer hadn't even been on Earth very long at that point, and that was before Doom had any first hand knowledge on Surfer.



Originally posted by Original Smurph
First off, as you pointed out, the devices are inside Eradiactor- the specific mindblast blocking device that you're replicating needs to be wielded by hand, as shown in your scans. So Doom won't have much going for him.

Secondly, lol? Your will power > Exodus' mental defenses?



Not inside of, "built into". You really think we'd put the device were it would be of no use?

Doom's willpower>anyone else in Marvel(cept maybe Thanos), including Exodus. Anyone even remotely familiar with Doom knows that. He's also one of the most powerful sorcerers on the planet which also requires things like keen will/mental defenses. On top of that Doom now has 10% of Surfer's Power Cosmic and is safely behind the shields of the Eradicator.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Opening post, no extending the time in any way.
And gives the Speed force and time manipulation as examples. Kahn's been saying that since the first, but the last official ruling on it that I'm aware of said...

Originally posted by TheKahn
The 5 minutes for prep his a hard limit. Attempts to circumvent the amount of time given will not be tolerated.

Any judge who feels a team is intentionally breaking/exploiting the rules is certainly allowed to hold that against the team in question when making their decision.

Originally posted by -Pr-
so speed building tech isn't allowed?

Originally posted by TheKahn
Within reasonable limits. Again, its up to the individual judges to determine if a team strays beyond the limits.

Mind you those quotes are from a while ago so there may have been an official change since then, if so please feel free to point it out. If there's not, I seriously doubt anyone will consider the amount of time necessary to be below the cap since we're just talking about slight mental alterations to devices that Doom's already created.


Originally posted by Original Smurph
The difference here, as I'm sure you're well aware, is that Sersi's powers are never used to their maximum potential. Doom's intellect, however, is always used to its max, which it what makes him so impressive in comics.
"In your opinion" on both counts. Given that Doom's intelligence was increased by a hundredfold by Franklin Richards(after he'd already been shown to be in Reed's class)...

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomIntellect13EmperorReturns2.jpg

...and he's still portrayed as being on Reed's level I'd say it was far from used to the max.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Furthermore, I have the scans proving that she's changing them. She says she's rearranging their molecules, you can see the people changing subtly (in facial structure), or drastically, by being turned into Deviants, pigs or Kree.

Not really sure what else you want. If you would like to ignore Sersi's entire history as a character specializing in matter transmutation, ok, do so. I don't really understand the concept of her claiming to have transformed men into pigs, everybody else in comics agreeing, and you disagreeing- what, is she dressing men up in pigs costumes?
Yeah but appearances in comics mean virtually nothing. Put it this way, did the Eteranal's LOOSE their powers when they were turned into Deviants? Because Deviants don't have all those powers so if the team retained them then they weren't ACTUALLY Devients, they just looked like Deviants. You know, more like shapeshifting than DNA writing.




With all that said, I'll take this opportunity to point out that Doom's magic is being overlooked in how valuable Doom's sorcery is going to be. He doesn't have much in the way of specific spells for us to reference, but he's demonstrated himself to be an accomplished sorcerer time and time again.

For instance he knows everything Cagliostro knows...
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomSorcery05IronMan149.jpg

And for those unfamiliar with Cagliostro
http://marvel.wikia.com/Cagliostro_(O-Bengh)_(Earth-616)


He's also proven the supperior of Master Kahn
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomSorcery18Namor31.jpg

Kahn's bio
http://marvel.com/universe/Master_Khan

And has even managed to temorarily stalemate and then temorally BFR Morgan Le Fay with magic(so suggesting a temoral BFR of course, just point out how bad ass he is)
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/th_DoomSorcery25DarkAvengers02.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/th_DoomSorcery26DarkAvengers03.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/th_DoomSorcery27.jpg


So Doom's sorcery is a potent weapon for our team, and one that our opponents just can't counter.

Since this is about over and our opponents have spent the entire match just trying to attack our prep plans, I thought I'd take a minute to humor their arguements by looking at a "worst case" scenereo. Lets assume for a second that our team isn't able to accomplish ANYTHING truely useful during our prep, while our opponents prep goes just according to plan. At the start of the match it would be...

Surfer with 90% of his Power Cosmic
Doom with 10% of Surfer's Power Cosmic(and his own magic and such)
Fortress Mode Eradicator

vs

Kryptonian Cyborg Sersi
Cyborg Supes w/ring
Cyborg Sinestro

Now in a standard forum battle this would obviously be a lopsided fight, but luckily enough for us as Blair pointed out this is a tourney and our opponents entered this fight with no real game plan in mind, Our battle plan will still net us a win against that kind of indecisiveness for the following reasons...

1. In the opening seconds Sersi is still going to be thrown from the area by Surfer's spatial energy wave unless someone can post proof of Sersi, Cyborg, or Sinestro's skill at manipulating raw spatial energy. With Sersi gone, it's still a fight that's 2 on 3 in our favor and removes the character they've claimed to be able to defend against Doom's magic isn't there to help our her team in that regards.

2. Even without our energy absorbers, both Surfer(and as Blair demonstrated, the Eradicator) have significant abilities within the realm of energy absorption. If we for some reason can't create the absorbers(which is a fairly rediculous notion) we can still use our own innate abilities to accomplish the task. That means that one way or another, we're going to be getting stronger while our opponents get weaker. And if the judges believe that it's within our capabilities to transform Doom into Kryptonian(a fairly simple task for his team mates), that stolen energy could also be transfered to Doom in the form of solar energy(he's got a portion of the Power Cosmic too mind you) to amplify his Kryptonian abilties if the judges don't believe he'd be on Supes's level from the lamps.

3. Even at 90% power, Surfer's still not getting one shotted by Cyborg or Sinestro. I mean I could post a list of Surfer's durability feats as long as my arm, but I'm confident enough in his established history to think the judges will know about it without my having to post 50 scans for people to look through. On the other hand, aside from energy absorption Surfer has another perfectly viable way to completely screw up our opponents powers right out of the gate. I know it's not a feat against yellow rings(which is why I haven't posted it until now) but since our opponents are keen on using the feats of GL's as if they're equal it seems plenty relevant...

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/6521/536647bw6.th.jpg

And Surfer's done that type of thing before against the Vision and Wonderman with more immediate and greater effect on the target...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/09.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/10-1.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/12-1.jpg

So he could easily do the same thing Supes did to Kyle and mess with your rings powers, or he could just do it to your solar energy reserves and screw up your Kryptonian powers. Or he can do both(mess up the ring and then your solar radiation) an leave you completely powerless.

4. Since Sersi's gone and Surfer's got some easy ways to match and/or beat either of the remaining opponents, that only leaves one to take on Fortress Mode Erads and Doom. Since both of the remaining characters are shooting for "Supes level" stats and Blairs already shown Erads to be far supperior to Supes physically, I think it's pretty obvious who'd win a head to head match between either remaining opponent and the tag team of Doom and the Eradicator.


And that's the result of a worse case scenereo where NONE of our prep works and all of their prep works... they still lose due to a poor overall battleplan. So it should be pretty obvious who'd win if the judges believe that any/all of our prep plans(which I believe we've shown to be fairly easy for us to accomplish) hold up. Just be safe though, here are yet more things the judges should keep in mind.



First of all our team isn't made up of morons, if for some reason our exact prep plans wouldn't work, they'd could easily recover and get the intended effects we're looking for. If for some reason the lights didn't sufficiently charge up Doom's powers, they could still be easily charged by Surfer's Power Cosmic...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_17.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_18.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_12.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_13.jpg

...and before Smurph says that doing that kind of thing would be massively draining on Surfer let me remind everyone of two things. First, he can always drain power off our opponents once the fight starts(so even if he were to begin low on energy he wouldn't be for long). Second, Quasar pulled energy equal to that of a small sun out of Surfer with no appreciateable effect

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Quasar-50-38.jpg

So any way you cut it, Doom's going to be starting this fight amped by yellow and blue solar energy if he can be turned into a Kryptonian.


By the same token if we can't successfully reconfigure Doom's forcefield to resist the effects of the blackhole, Surfer can easily raise one to do the job for us and still have plenty of energy left to do his share of the fighting...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-13.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-14.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-15-1.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-16.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-17.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-18.jpg

...so we're protected either way. And if he's also focusing on absorbing energy because for whatever reason we're unable to build our absorbers, he'll be replentishing the power he expends with energy from our opponents rings. His energy level will increase from the execess energy from the drain, while our opponents rings are losing power both from continuosly fighting the effects of the blackhole itself and from having their energy drained to power our own force field and pump us up further. Which again just shows how our supperior battle strategy gives us a BIG edge over the opposition.
*On a related note, I searched high and low for evidence of at least one Doom's earlier armors being powered by a miniature blackhole, but to no avail. There's not a single doubt in my mind that such evidence exists because I HAVE seen the scan where it's specifically stated to be Doom's powersource, but I can't remember where it's at and ODG never wrote me back to tell me if he knew anything about it. But given Doom's overall brilliance and edjucation and Surfer's experience with things like blackhole's I think it's still entirely believable for Doom to be able to reconfigure a forcefield to nullify the effects of a blackhole with a combination of his computer like mind, Kryptonian speed, and Power Cosmic.

The same hold true for virtually everything we wanted done in our prep...

Team JaketheBank/Original Smurph aka Team Awesome
Post #8/10
Let me touch on some points here:



He turned the sun red? Great, as it's not a factor for our team. Henshaw can operate normally with red sun in the first place and due to our power rings, we can easily shield our bodies from radiation we don't want coming through our bodies. Not to mention that Henshaw was shown to be highly resistant to Kryptonite poisoning from his earlier appearances and practically immune in a later scenario. Your team is not going to be able to simply weakness exploit our team due to the fact we'll have no specific weaknesses to exploit.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/011.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/i/supermanmos10027gy6.jpg/

The first above scan shows how Henshaw is able to function at optimal levels without constant exposure to yellow sun while the below scan shows Henshaw commenting on how Superman is weak and hardly worth his time? Why? Because Superman was infected with a steadily growing case of Kryptonite poisoning. Henshaw essentially has the best of both worlds: access to a wide assortment of Kryptonian powers without being crippled to their weaknesses. And now each other member of our team is going to possess the same physical qualities. And that's without Qwardian power rings at our disposal. Speaking of which...



Are you serious? The Qwardian rings have been claimed by numerous sources to be equal in power, if not superior to the Oan rings back when the yellow weakness was in play. Any person with common sense can deduce that the Qwardian Rings = Oan Rings in power and function. Their only difference is they operate on two different sources of power: will and fear.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/06b68863.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/QwardianRingOan2.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/QwardianRingOan.jpg

Here you have Hal's mind inside Sinestro's body and without taking time to adapt much, uses the ring considerably well considering his prior experience using his own Oan Ring. The next scan is the very first unveiling of Sinestro with his power ring. At the time, when the yellow impurity was still a critical weakness to GL's, it was heralded as being even more powerful than Hal's own ring. And the next scan shows Guy, someone who has weilded both rings, claim the yellow ring is just as powerful as a ring used by a GL. Guy would later go on to claim the yellow ring was superior altogether simply because it had no weaknesses (aside from having to be recharged).

Coupled with the fact you're dealing with two beings who have shown explicit knowledge and skill in weilding both types of rings, only someone seriously deluded would even begin to think that Sinestro especially cannot match the feats of Lanterns shown or told to be be inferior to his skill and power. Considering that Sinestro was often dubbed "the greatest Green Lantern of them all" prior to Hal's arrival on the scene, it's no doubt that he's able to accomplish mostly every high end feat a Lantern of comparable or less skill has shown.

As far as the energy draining goes, good luck. Surfer and Doom and Eradicator are going to quickly siphon energy from our rings while at the same being able to adequately defend themselves and match our movement and high end reflexes to say nothing of our ability to simply out think them? That's rich. I suppose you're under the impression that energy absorbtion is a one way street, then? Because if we want to play "who can drain who first", we're going to win. Besides the fact that the Qwardian rings themselves can absorb/rechannel energy just as well as anything else you can attempt, we're also going to have instant access to energy absorbtion simply from being Cyborg-K's. Each scan you posted of energy absorbtion, the person(s) being drained did not posses our level of defenses or weaponry or skill set to prevent such a task or perform it ourselves. In essence, you've proven you can asborb energy, which is great, but have failed to prove you can absorb the energy from our rings, much less the energy our bodies are naturally using.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/GreenLantern168-15.jpg

Here Hal Jordan is shown able to actually reabsorb energy back into his ring after it had been forcibly expelled. That alone makes it plausible and possible for us to do the same. But then again, the yellow rings are obviously vastly inferior to the green power rings despite years of on panel evidence claiming otherwise.

I've been busy as hell and have a lecture in less than an hour, but I'll attempt to throw some last minute responses together here...

Opponents Issues:

Telepathy
The one feat that lends credit to the idea that their team might be able to throw something together psionically is the one of Eradicator messing with Matrix's mind, but that took places over a number of days! It also didn't show the effort, or even that it was precisely telepathy, as our opponents didn't even provide a scan of Eradicator within that whole set. Trusting that it was actually a telepathy feat, there's nothing there to back up the notion that it was accomplished or could be accomplished in the 30 seconds that it needs to be.

Obviously there's a big difference between providing proof of being able to do something and proving that you can do it in addition to a dozen other equally complicated and draining tasks within a few minutes.

Anyways, I've said quite a bit on the manner.

Sun Lamps

There is absolutely NOTHING provided by the opposition to prove that only lamps would power up the massive stores of energy that fuel kryptonians. The only proof was by comparing them to red sun lamps, which I've shown are not at all comparable.

Their solution?

"Surfer will power them up at the beginning of the match..."
Well, no, he won't.

Adventures of Superman #563-
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9761/adventuresofsuperman563.jpg

Cyborg Superman doesn't need a yellow sun to function. Unlike Clark, he remains at full power despite the sun reserves. We're creating from-scratch kryptonians, we're not making suns and there's no mention of the battlefield being under a sun- so our opponents' last ditch plan to steal our energy in order to power up themselves won't work, because we have no need to fill ourselves up with said energy.

Then their entire battle chances hang upon the one scan, in which, if you read, Quasar LIES about hitting Surfer with a small sun's energies, SAYS that he lied about it, and admits that he was just draining power from the Surfer. He doesn't say how much, he just says that his comment about hitting him with a small sun's energies was, in fact, a lie.

So...

Unless the judges are willing to support the entire weight of their already highly questionable kreate-a-kryptonian plan- they lack the proof that they can precisely matter manip in the time they claim they can, the lack the proof that they can transfer experience in the time they claim they can, and they lack any proof of being able to power up those kryptonians... that's a hell of a lot riding on one questionable scan.

But, I'll leave it up to the judges to sort through the BS.

Cosmic Doom

Doom, with all the power he took from Surfer, was unable to become more powerful than any low herald, and many modern day high metas.

My opponents brilliant plan is to remove his armor, give him one tenth of that power, and hope for the best.

"But what about ze magic!?" they cry.

The only actual spell they've referenced is the Crimson Bands.

Hulk broke out in, iirc, Incredible Hulk #450.
On LAND Namor broke out of them in Marvel Team-Up V2 #8 (I believe)

Those were cast by Doc Strange, widely acknowledged to be far superior to Doom as far as magic is concerned...

There stands to be no reason why we won't snap out of them, if a Doom whose best speed feat is outdistancing the Human Torch actually manages to find time to cast them before Sersi mindrapes him or we just disconnect his head from his body.

The tech

Judges, honestly, just look at the context of the scans that they're using to back up their tech plans. They are nothing like the broad, multi-purpose, global scale tech they're claiming to be able to modify and invent in a few seconds. Especially since we now know that Doom will not have kryptonian speed and barely will have power cosmic speed to help him in the process, if such speed boosts are even allowed.

I mean, I'd go back to dissecting it scan by scan, but I'm in a rush and I truly do believe most of it is common sense...

On a separate note, if they're only being stored inside Eradicator, fantastic.

Then the ones that are personal use only (such as the telepathy blocker) can't be used by anybody but Erads, and they're still ours to scan, analyze and modify willingly.

Even if you believed that Henshaw's technopathy isn't tech based (though it is... his tech interacts and overrides machinery constantly), or that we couldn't, in the huge amount of time that we've left ourselfves during prep, simply reproduce the scenario that caused Henshaw's technopathy, Henshaw himself can still technopathically link to any machinery that they have, and Sersi can link to Henshaw. Pretty straight forward.

We can modify and copy any tech that they have, and we can use it for our own general purpose. That's what we do. It's not their power set, it's constructs they've made during prep that are now ours to view and use as we see fit. We're not hijacking their equipment, just their blueprints, then shifting them so they work for us. No big deal, Henshaw does it in comics constantly.

edit

Jake and I had a miscommunication, I was going to tack something on to his post, and he thought the match ended earlier than it did.

I'm gonna paste his post on to the end of mine. It's still well within the limit for one post, Paul said that he'd edit the above for me.

Now taking it home...

I'll just cover what Jake hasn't as far as our own prep goes, then I'll boast about how awesome we are a little bit, and leave it for the judges to decide the rest.

Spatial energy wave

I don't really understand where the notion that we need to be shown manipulating spatial energy (is that even a thing? or just a made-up term in surfer comics, and therefore something we can't have been shown manipulating?) in order to block it.

Do you need to be shown manipulating Qwardian energy in order to block it?

We have three expert ring wielders, with Cyborg Superman's ridiculous energy durability, and Sersi's own formidable durability.

I mean...

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/482/hacsahunterprey0240bb8.th.jpghttp://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8213/hacsahunterprey0241km0.th.jpg

Omega Blast, full power. Just look at the scans. A weakened Surfer is supposed to knock out somebody with that durability, and a qwardian ring, and two equally powerful teammates, and Eternal's natural durability for multiple seconds... when Darkseid couldn't for a panel?

Har har.

Our battle plan

I don't really see what the issue is. We told you what we were going to do. Mesh together, as we have done, then utilize our tech and our rings and our natural abilities to take you down as efficiently as possible while Sersi constantly heals them up to full capacity.

Need we say more? You guys are the ones who said "our team isnt made up of morons", or something to that effect.

Really this shouldn't be a point of discussion. No, we didn't come up with specialized attacks, but that's not a point to attack mid-debate. We still have a team of tactical geniuses, all firmly linked telepathically.

Anywho...

Sersi's matter manip

I don't really know what to say. Sersi is clearly turning her friends into Deviants- the pink tails they're growing are really there, their genetics had to have really changed. In the Nega Bomb scans I posted earlier, as well as the Avengers-to-Kree scans, she talks about how it is matter manipulation that she's performing, even on the sub-atomic level.

There's nothing offered by our opponents to suggest that she couldn't replicate the same feats, just substituting "kryptonian" or "cyborg" instead of "Deviant".

Pretty sure the scans speak for themselves...

Final notes from Smurph:

We think faster, we're armed better, and they've been able to lay down no evidence that we can't do everything that we say we can.

We match or overcome them in every single category, and we're constantly healed. We're also constantly attacking them telepathically, something which they've provided no evidence of defense against (remember, even if they can match it with willpower, it'll still take up the total of their concentration... easy pickings for our offense players).

We're far more grounded in everything we've said, whereas our opponents require huge leaps of faith to even accomplish the smallest of their claims.

from Jake

Closing Arguements

In conclusion, when you look at Smurph and I's prep and opening strategy, you're going to find the following:

-Plausibility: There should really be little doubt, if any, that we can accomplish what we're setting out to do. Sersi is going to be using her immense transmutation and telepathy powers to transform herself and Sinestro into beings sharing the same physical components of Hank Henshaw (ie. Cyborg Kryptonians). She'll also telepathically share relevant knowledge between the group, enabling us to weild our new powers to the best of our ability. Sinestro and Henshaw will then, between the two of them, will be able to duplicate the single Qwardian ring twice, giving each member a ring of their own that will then be fully charged. Taking into account both Henshaw's and Sinestro's knowledge of power rings and the fact that Henshaw has literally "spawned" power rings mid battle, this is easy enough to accomplish.

-Effectiveness: Each member of our team will be a cyborg-kryptonian wielding a single Qwardian power ring charged to full power. Coupled with Sersi's own Eternal powers, if that doesn't scream effective, I don't know what will. Physically, we'll be able to respond to any challenge. Mentally, we'll be able to overcome any tricky situation. And with our sheer firepower and weapons at our disposal, we're prepared for anything.

-Power Cap: Seeing as this is the "high herald" tournament, I can safely say that without a shadow of a doubt, we're also safely within the confines of what's acceptable power limit wise. Since it was ruled that Henshaw with 10 power rings clearly breached what most thought was accepted, each member of our team is as powerful as possible without over stepping the bounds. A cyborg-kryptonian with a single power ring is obviously not above a High Herald. Can a Power Cosmic weilding Kryptonian amped off of Blue and Yellow Sun say the same?

Eradicator:

Just a reminder, we have the most physically imposing member on any team in this tournament. He's huge. What exactly do they plan to do to him?

I would also like to give some context to a few scans. Most notably a telepathy scan, as Smurph for some reason needs more evidence that we can manage telepathic connections:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3301/eradfamia1.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4854/eradfam2es2.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4774/eradfam3kb7.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5016/eradfam4vj1.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4341/eradsarahou6.jpg

Also, as far as defenses, while we are not allowed to offensive use T-Vo, Khan was kind enough to say we could propose that we would be shielded by psionics due to having that ability ( a passive benefit of it)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2514/week032000supesmos096119hg.jpg

Doom

Energy Absorbers

The energy absorbers are still popular. What would the opposing team fails to understand is that they are tech inside Eradicator. All they require is an "on" switch, and BAM! instant energy absorbing (their power sources and their tech). The opposing team will not know what hit them. Again, I would rather the scans do the talking so here is a showcase of some of Doom's simplest energy absorbing technology:

Absorbing Franklin's Powers with just his personal absorbing modules:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomArmor44-PersonalAdaptersHeroesR.jpg

Absorbing HyperStorm's energy instantly:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomPowerCosmicSiphonHarness05409.jpg

Doom's technology absorbing Cosmic Spiderman's powers without the knowledge of what type of energy it is! He wants to analyze it to be able to see how it functions. This shows that he does not need to know all there is to know about an energy before he can absorb it:
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3905/webofspiderman06018re2.jpg

Power Cosmic

Doom. With the Power Cosmic. I feel sick even having to defend his ability to use these powers. We've all seen it guys. Honestly, no need to defend this.

Summary

- Our team has assessed the situtation and gone on the offensive from the very beginning. The opposing teams have no been able to fully counter our beginning attacks , instead trying to place doubt in our ability to complete our prep actions. Darth has shown that even without our enhancements, we would still dominate.

- Being energy weilders, they have an inherent weakness in having their energy absorbed.

- They really have no set battle plan. "uh...we attack?" is not an acceptable answer.

And since Smurph likes huge pictures, here's one for you Smurphy

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6757/returnofsuperman455pk8.jpg

It was just brought to my attention that one of my scans from my last post is broken. Where I'm defending "Transmute Eradicator with tech goodies" this is the scan showing our ability to reconfigure tech...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/silver_surfer_1987_005_21.jpg


I'm assuming corrections like this are allowed of course, but if there's a rule against one of the mods can just edit this post.

Good match all. Win or lose, as I told Blair, this is why I entered the tourney.

Haven't had a tourney match feel that satisfying in a while. Which sounds horribly nerdily, but whatevs haha.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Good match all. Win or lose, as I told Blair, this is why I entered the tourney.

Haven't had a tourney match feel that satisfying in a while. Which sounds horribly nerdily, but whatevs haha.
Dido Smurph, it's been a while since I participated in a match like this.

Yeah, I also want to say that I had fun debating with all parties present. Win or lose, it will be a positive experience for my first tournament.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, I also want to say that I had fun debating with all parties present. Win or lose, it will be a positive experience for my first tournament.

Trust me, you did good for a first timer. No really....most first timers suck.

Sorry about my few posts. Life gets in the way of the important things like tournaments

Good luck to all.

I've read the prep and battle a few times. Anything I didn't know offhand I had to look up in my comics.

The debates back and forth were pretty decent. I thought both teams did a good job of sparring and countering. Scans were applicable, for the most part, and in links or thumbnails. Also, there was a pleasant lack of personal digs in this match. Always appreciated.

I'll break this down the best I can. I've written down some notes as a reference so I can be succinct.

There's always a leap of faith in these tournaments. Using characters, meshing powers, etc. So I try to keep an open mind.

The good.
-I thought both teams did a decent job. There was some holes in explanations/proof but I thought each team countered any claims to the contrary well.

-DNA transfer/transmutation for teammates and memory/knowledge sharing are areas which get muddled. All in all, I bought that both teams could accomplish that feat as well. Again, a few holes but overall I bought it.

Team Smurph/JTB had a plan which was very simple and straight forward. There wasn't much in the way of speculation or any overreaching involved. Sersi is a character I'm overly familiar with and they provided enough scans and explanation for me.

Team Blair/Goober had a much more elaborate, multi-faceted plan involving several components. There was also scans available with good explanations. I was a bit more familiar overall with their team.

The bad.
Team Blair/Goober had one of the most complex prep plans I've personally read in a tournament. It was very imaginative. I did have a few problems however. I felt team Smurph/JTB brought up good points regarding some major parts of your plan. The time constraint of 5 minutes. Even with Surfer's speed and a Kryptonian's speed, I found it very hard to believe that your team could do everything in your prep within 5 minutes. I know they're fast and think extremely fast but I wasn't buying that they could do all that in 5 minutes. To recap they: transfer memories and knowledge, Sufer gives Doom a portion of the PC, transmute Doom to Kryptonian, create the sun lamps powerful enough to charge a Kryptonian (which wasn't really supported), add Doom's tech to Eradicator's tech, make energy absorbers, make psi blockers, make emotional manipulation machine, create magic/cosmic shield, make anti-black hole field, make force field nullifiers, make do not enter zone, cast Cyttorak Bands all in 5 minutes.

Originality
Blair/Goober - 4/5
Smurph/JTB - 3/5

Again, Blair & Goob had a very imaginative plan imo.

Effectiveness
Blair/Goob - 2/5
Smurph/JTB - 4/5

Smurph and JTB used blunt force trauma to it's best imo. The 5 minute prep time took away the effectiveness for team Blair/Goob.

Debating Skill
Blair/Goob - 3.5/5
Smurph/JKT - 3.5/5

The ugly.
Vote for team Smurph/JTB.

Originally posted by Badabing


Debating Skill
Blair/Goob - 3.5/5
Smurph/JKT - 3.5/5

the debating skill score is out of 10 points. so I guess that translates to 7/10 for both teams.

Originally posted by Starscream M
the debating skill score is out of 10 points. so I guess that translates to 7/10 for both teams. Wow, not only can you add decimals but you actually pieced together me using all 5's as my voting strategy. Congrats.

Originally posted by Badabing
Wow, not only can you add decimals but you actually pieced together me using all 5's as my voting strategy. Congrats. That sarcasm was uncalled for.

I was just highlighting the scoring discrepancy with consistency in mind and so other judges are aware of the system thaKhan and batdude set in place. You don't want to end up with different variations in the case of a tie when we have to actually tally points to decide winner.

that was all.

Originally posted by Starscream M
That sarcasm was uncalled for.

I was just highlighting the scoring discrepancy with consistency in mind and so other judges are aware of the system thaKhan and batdude set in place. You don't want to end up with different variations in the case of a tie when we have to actually tally points to decide winner.

that was all. Sarcasm...uncalled for? Have you just met me? Hi, I'm Badabing and I use sarcasm...A LOT! dur

Originally posted by Badabing
I've read the prep and battle a few times. Anything I didn't know offhand I had to look up in my comics.

The debates back and forth were pretty decent. I thought both teams did a good job of sparring and countering. Scans were applicable, for the most part, and in links or thumbnails. Also, there was a pleasant lack of personal digs in this match. Always appreciated.

I'll break this down the best I can. I've written down some notes as a reference so I can be succinct.

There's always a leap of faith in these tournaments. Using characters, meshing powers, etc. So I try to keep an open mind.

The good.
-I thought both teams did a decent job. There was some holes in explanations/proof but I thought each team countered any claims to the contrary well.

-DNA transfer/transmutation for teammates and memory/knowledge sharing are areas which get muddled. All in all, I bought that both teams could accomplish that feat as well. Again, a few holes but overall I bought it.

Team Smurph/JTB had a plan which was very simple and straight forward. There wasn't much in the way of speculation or any overreaching involved. Sersi is a character I'm overly familiar with and they provided enough scans and explanation for me.

Team Blair/Goober had a much more elaborate, multi-faceted plan involving several components. There was also scans available with good explanations. I was a bit more familiar overall with their team.

The bad.
Team Blair/Goober had one of the most complex prep plans I've personally read in a tournament. It was very imaginative. I did have a few problems however. I felt team Smurph/JTB brought up good points regarding some major parts of your plan. The time constraint of 5 minutes. Even with Surfer's speed and a Kryptonian's speed, I found it very hard to believe that your team could do everything in your prep within 5 minutes. I know they're fast and think extremely fast but I wasn't buying that they could do all that in 5 minutes. To recap they: transfer memories and knowledge, Sufer gives Doom a portion of the PC, transmute Doom to Kryptonian, create the sun lamps powerful enough to charge a Kryptonian (which wasn't really supported), add Doom's tech to Eradicator's tech, make energy absorbers, make psi blockers, make emotional manipulation machine, create magic/cosmic shield, make anti-black hole field, make force field nullifiers, make do not enter zone, cast Cyttorak Bands all in 5 minutes.

Originality
Blair/Goober - 4/5
Smurph/JTB - 3/5

Again, Blair & Goob had a very imaginative plan imo.

Effectiveness
Blair/Goob - 2/5
Smurph/JTB - 4/5

Smurph and JTB used blunt force trauma to it's best imo. The 5 minute prep time took away the effectiveness for team Blair/Goob.

Debating Skill
Blair/Goob - 3.5/5
Smurph/JKT - 3.5/5

The ugly.
Vote for team Smurph/JTB. Originally posted by Starscream M
the debating skill score is out of 10 points. so I guess that translates to 7/10 for both teams. Anyway, re-posted my vote and Starscream's explanation in case anyone was confused.

Delph's Vote:

Where to begin...

There is quite a lot to read in this thread, but hilariously enough, it was actually quite easy to judge due a couple of details which I found humorous.

- Both teams have essentially the exact same plan, but would have you believe that it wouldn't work for the other though they both have almost identical powersets. Classic.

- B-Dub and Goober improve upon this template by utilizing Eradicator and his "No Contact" zone tech, which will be weakening their opponents, as well as Doom's magic. solid.

-Here's the humorous part: Smurph goes out of his way to argue that in modifying Dr. Doom and turning him into a Kryptonian via transmutation, the exact same plan which he and Jake employ for Sersi and Sinestro, Doom would be powerless because it takes time to absorb sunlight. However, the battle takes place on an Earth-like planet where sunlight would seemingly be abundant, and if it were not, Sersi and Sinestro would be powerless as well because Smurph and Jake DID NOT infuse either of their characters with sunlight during prep (attention to detail guys), meaning Henshaw would be the only powered up Kryptonian if I follow that line of reasoning. Also, I wasn't buying the argument that the solar lamps wouldn't power Doom up, coupled with the fact that Goober said in prep that Surfer would also add energy to him:



Attention to detail.

- Energy draining seems to be the main trump card being played in this tournament, and B-Dub and Goob utilized that along with restraining their opponents.

Since both teams did the same thing the few variances B-Dub and Goob provided provided the edge and win

My vote: B-Dub & Goober

As for the point system allotments:


Originality:
Smurph/Jake 1/5
Goober/B-Dub 1.5/5

Can't give points for originality when both teams have the same plan. "No Contact" Zone, black hole blast, and Crimson Bands give B-Dub & Goob a very slight edge in concerns to originality, but tipped the fight in their favor.

Effectiveness:
Smurph/Jake 3/5
Goober/B-Dub 4/5

It was a good plan on the part of both teams. Goob & B-Dub just covered more bases and were more thorough. Can't really detract from what Smurph and Jake were trying to do with their plan of attack and argument save for a couple oversights. Solid all around though.

Debating Skills:
Smurph/Jake 6/10
Goober/B-Dub 7/10

As I said above, solid all around. Smurph and Jake were in sync and really tried to hammer those holes into Goob and B-Dub's plan, and Goob and B-Dub had reprisals for it. Slight edge to B-Dub and Goob for better attention to detail in overall their plan. It was long winded, but with purpose.

Good match ya'll.

-Delph Digler

Ok, on to it. You bastards needs to learn the art of brevity.

- I'd really enjoy bats and Kahn making in-thread announcements about legality of certain things. Judges can't be expected to sift through other threads to see if a ruling was made on something they're wondering about. And, frankly, we can't trust the participants to be forthcoming about all rulings.

- I had no preconceptions coming in. The matter manip. on both teams meant that any ideas anyone had coming in would be shot to hell with both teams' respective prep.

- Speaking of, I warned everyone about the amount of prep that was allotted in this tourney. And I hear there's rule changes to be made soon as a result. hate to say I told you so, but...

- I suppose I need to start with what aspects of blair/goob's prep I believed. Some but not all is the nutshell version. Somewhere in the part where they had Doom granting Kryptonian powers to others, after being given his own Kryptonian powers only moments before, based on a theoretical shield to create blue sunlight, I stopped believing the layered powered transfers would all work. Also, defining Eradicator's non-alien shield as "anyone but us" seems to vague and conceptual to actually be true. Does he have enough knowledge of Eternal DNA, for example, to create a block to instantly identify them? Or to differentiate the members of his own team from those of the same species? Iffy. Sun lamps are fine, but would be a small amount of radiation, certainly not a sun's worth.

- I've used those Surfer power-transfer scans in a tourney before. Nobody called us out on the "it takes 50% of Surfer's power to do so" thing. Blair/goob weren't as fortunate. They later recanted to a smaller percentage, but it's still not increasing the total percentage of "Surfer Power" in the match, just spreading it around.

- That said, it's Doom with power cosmic, plus low-level Kryptonian powers (I don't think he'd be fully amped) plus his own powers, tech, and magic. Scary, scary combo.

- I still have yet to see conclusive evidence that rings can simply be replicated from nowhere. BN #6 was filled with caveats for when such things could actually take place. That said, Sinestro is essentially the Guardian for his Corps, the rings are technological in nature, and the team has matter manip. So like the last match I judged, I went ahead and assumed it would be possible.

- Surfer can absorb energy, yes. But we've seen an (albeit probably non-canon) crossover Surfer v. GL which I think is a fairly accurate portrayal of how such a battle would go. Surfer wins, but GLs are capable of producing energies that rival Surfer's own. No way he's absorbing multiple yellow rings.

- In a battle like this, collateral damage would be massive. So, for example, could Doom's psionic reverser work? Hell yes, and effectively. But would it last through the battle? Almost assuredly no. This goes for most outside creations, which hurts Blair/goob more than Smurph/Jake.

- Erad's energy absorption and versatility seems enough in my mind to hinder Jake/Smurph's team quite a bit. They certainly have more raw power, so the issue was always in how much of their story I could reasonably believe.

- Despite similar strategies (delph pointed this out sufficiently) and similar power sets, I thought Smurph/Jake did a better job covering experience transfer. Experience with powers accounts for a lot. Doom has wielded the power cosmic before, so it didn't hurt Blair/goob a ton, but it was a point of contention with me.

- Needed to find a damn tiebreaker, since I went back and forth a few times here. And one thing that stuck out to me that was essentially ignored by Smurph/Jake was the Crimson Bands. A heck of an early-in-the-match trump card to take the initiative. Jake mentions a couple times that it was broken out of, but it's also held some immensely powerful entities for long periods of time. Bands + speedblitz curbstomp, regardless of prep nonsense or if they can get the whole team in them (even 1-2 would be an advantage) is enough for me to believe that the edge would go to team "Goober's Fanboy Favorites."

Vote for Blair/Goob.

Originality:
Smurph/Jake 1/5
Goober/B-Dub 1/5

Zomg Kryptonian genes! uhuh I have yet to be thrown off guard yet in this tourney with a plan.

Effectiveness:
Smurph/Jake 3/5
Goober/B-Dub 3/5

Damn close in most aspects.

Debating Skills:
Smurph/Jake 6/10
Goober/B-Dub 7/10

Jake was solid in his first go-about. The others all know what's up. Blair and Jake could've been around more, but meh. A fairly textbook back and forth.

Originally posted by Digi
I'd really enjoy bats and Kahn making in-thread announcements about legality of certain things. Judges can't be expected to sift through other threads to see if a ruling was made on something they're wondering about. And, frankly, we can't trust the participants to be forthcoming about all rulings.

Quit bitching. uhuh

Originally posted by illadelph12
Originality:
Smurph/Jake 1/5
Goober/B-Dub 1.5/5

Can't give points for originality when both teams have the same plan. "No Contact" Zone, black hole blast, and Crimson Bands give B-Dub & Goob a very slight edge in concerns to originality, but tipped the fight in their favor.


Originally posted by Digi
Originality:
Smurph/Jake 1/5
Goober/B-Dub 1/5

Zomg Kryptonian genes! uhuh I have yet to be thrown off guard yet in this tourney with a plan.

Hey give us a little credit, we ARE the only one's who found a way around the confines of the prep lounge. I mean I know shrinking isn't a new concept or anything, but the other participants thought it was pretty ingenius and Kahn/bats are going to change the rules because of it .

...Just a joke. You guys voted for us... we cool .

All right. After reading through this monstrosity a few times, I think I've come to a decision.

Overall, I think both teams did a good job with the debating. Neither teams' plan was close to perfect and I enjoyed the back-and-forths between the teams as they defended their flaws and attacked their opponents'.

I wish teams would realize that transferring additional herald level-power sets and the prerequisite experience in using them effectively isn't something that can normally be done in a matter of moments. Slight modifications that make a character's existing powers more effective are more creditable in my mind, but I digress.

Unquestionably, I think this came down to an issue of quality versus quantity. BW and DG's opening post was....monumental to say the least. It was creative, through, detailed, very impressive, and entirely too complex for even their team to have a chance in hell of accomplishing in the 5 minutes given, imo. If they had 5 days instead of 5 minutes - maybe.

JtB and Smurph's prep wasn't perfect either, but they at least chose a prep plan that I believe they could accomplish in the time given, questions of its effectiveness aside.

Originality
Smurph/JtB - 3/5
BW/DG - 4/5

BW and DG's prep was beautiful much in the same way as nuclear explosion or multiple train crash. Smurph and JtB's was solid (if less ambitious) combination of their characters abilities. Good job all around.

Effectiveness
JtB/Smurph - 3.5/5
BW/DG - 1.5/5

More isn't always better. I just couldn't bring myself to believe that BW and DG could do all that they claimed during prep, which brought up the problem of what to dismiss as they continued during the fight. It just dug a hole for them from the start of the fight, imo.

Debating Skills
Smurph/JtB 8/10
DG/BW 8.5/10

Again, I think both sides did extremely well with DG and BW's veteran tournament experience coming through in places.

So, I have to give my vote (and it was closer than I expected in the end, to Smurph and JtB. Good match everyone.

so, it's 2 - 2.

What now Khan?

Originally posted by Starscream M
so, it's 2 - 2.

What now Khan?
We wait for C-Master.

Originally posted by darthgoober
We wait for C-Master.

I've already sent him a PM letting him know the situation.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so, it's 2 - 2.

What now Khan? We see which team sends the most to my Paypal for me to step in as mod. sneer

I'll be disappointed if Smurph doesn't win. He promised to meet me in the finals 313

Ok, so here I am. Sorry I was out taking care of business, but here is my evaluation at last.

I read through, and it was very interesting, good job all around, with enough sarcasm to keep things interesting, but without the personal attacks that make things childish. Both teams had good characters, and did wonderful jobs describing their strategies.

I liked how Team Smurph/Jake (SJ) had a simple plan that seemed very powerful, but I liked how Darth/Blair (DB) had a plan that enticed the imagination.

I felt that the SJ team's plan was short, but could be done reliably more often than not, and was simply more effective in that aspect in regards of what it takes to make it work.

Effectiveness:
SJ(4.5/5)
DB(4/5)

Creativity:
SJ(3/5)
DB(3.5/5)

Debating skills is really the hardest part for me. It's soooo close and all the pressure is on me. The overall debate was good, of course team DB having more experience. They did really good and presented their experience well, but everybody did very well. I guess what breaks this for me is simply the fact that the SJ team seemed more effective on a more consistent basis. This is the way I see it, so for the overall debate.

The match/debate:

SJ (3.5/5)
DB (3.4/5)

They were verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry close and hard to choose, the veteran players like Blair of course did not disappoint, however with the setup in this match it seemed like team SJ would get more consistent wins, so my conclusion rests with team SJ.

Phrew! This match was just way too close.... way wayyyy too close.

Wow, looking at the points allotted to to each team from the judges just shows how close these matches can be. This is the first match I've judged where I literally took notes while reading and re-reading through the posts.

Yea, one of the best matches I've seen. I'm honored to have participated. Nobody got "owned" or "stomped" in this match.

UzfY-aXGcBY

Immense thanks goes out to all the judges. I know it can't have been easy to work through, and we actually got five detailed judgements with point allotments in less than a week. For a match consisting pretty much entirely of posts nearing the size limit, that's fantastic.

Great match guys.

^ Agreed. Good match, guys.

Congrats guys, give'em Hell next round.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey give us a little credit, we ARE the only one's who found a way around the confines of the prep lounge. I mean I know shrinking isn't a new concept or anything, but the other participants thought it was pretty ingenius and Kahn/bats are going to change the rules because of it .

...Just a joke. You guys voted for us... we cool . at least they waited till after your match to change it

Originally posted by psycho gundam
at least they waited till after your match to change it
I smell bitching

Originally posted by psycho gundam
at least they waited till after your match to change it

Yes gundam, you lost your match because of Kahn and I. facepalm

that's why they pay you the big bucks, bats.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yes gundam, you lost your match because of Kahn and I. facepalm it was a bigger blow then shaman that's for sure.

Simple, yet effective tactic.