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So Yoda and Mace run the gauntlet, simply say which one they would lose at.

Scenario: Mace and Yoda are thrown into the Geonosis arena and are faced by opponents stage by stage. They decide to team up to take them down, will they survive?

1. Darth Maul
2. Asajj Ventress
3. ATOC Anakin and ATOC Obi Wan
4. Count Dooku and 5 battle droids.
5. ROTS Obi Wan and Shaak Ti
6. General Greivous and 3 Magnaguards
7. ROTS Anakin, Kit Fisto and Agen Kolar
8. Jango Fett and 30 Clone troopers
9. Luke Skywalker (ROTJ), Han Solo, Chewbacca, Ben Kenobi
10. Darth Vader, Galen Marek and Rahm Kota
11. Darth Sidious and Darth Vader
12. 3 Expirienced Jedi Masters, 6 Jedi Knights, 10 Jedi Padawans, Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, Coleman kcaj, Eoth Koth.

Where would they survive. Remember Stamina as it will be pretty tiring.

I'd have to say they'd struggle at 9, scrape through 10 and be owned in 11 due to loss of stamina and overally Sidious is one bad...

probably the last one, due to sheer numbers... but really, there is no one on this list except maybe that last one that could knock them off... Fatigue wouldn't affect 2 jedi masters in such a short period of time. They are both very powerful in the force, and could strengthen themselves accordingly.

I think they fall at 7.

How? Yoda might even solo that

Hmmmm....?

1. Maul would get ass-raped
2. Asajj even more so...
3. Mace would own AOTC Anakin, and Yoda would own AOTC Obi-Wan
4. Yoda would probably take on Dooku, while Mace clears up the battle droids, then goes to help Yoda, if he's still engaged with Dooku, which he would ultimately win without Mace.
5. Same as No.4 Yoda takes on ROTS Obi-Wan and Mace takes out Shaak Ti.
6. Same as No.4 Yoda takes on Grievous and Mace takes on the Magnaguards.
7. Yoda would probably take on ROTS Anakin, Mace would defeat Agen very quickly and after a short duel finish off Kit, then help Yoda take out Anakin, again Yoda could do this without help.
8. Mace would take out Jango with relative ease, then helps Yoda clear up the clones.
9. Han and Chewie would probably take aim at Mace and fail miserably, while Yoda battles ROTJ Luke and Ben, with Mace helping to defeat them both once hes finished with his pair.
10. Galen Vs Yoda (Dunno), Mace would take out Vader and Kota individually, but could he take both of them togethor, I dunno. Yoda might just be able to, but Mace wouldn't be able to defeat Galen?
11. Yoda would engage Sidious, and Mace would engage and take out Vader, then helps Yoda overcome Sidious.
12. Both would ultimately perish. Just too many Jedi for them to handle, even if they are Uber powerful, they just can't defeat this many all at once.

Axle:
10.
Mace couldn't defeat Galen? SAY WHAT?!?!?! and Yoda/Marek, YOU DON'T KNOW?

Take your right hand, raise it to face level, and slap yourself.

Righto, you kinky Jedi. Where else would you like me to slap? Hehe.

I don't really know that much about Galen Marek to be fair. Haven't done much research on him yet.

Even with full stamina they in all likelihood fall at 10.

At least to 9.

J/K



Bandon Solos

NO they don't! Ur stupid in the head!

Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
They lose all of them!!!!



LIES!!!! They would win the first 6 at least!

Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
J/K



Bandon Solos

Never mind then.

1-8 easy victory.

9 would be a little harder with mace probably getting shot once but no horrible injuries. 10....they lose SORRY, i just think with galen's EPIC force skillzzz he could take them down, with the help of vader and kota...and by help i mean distraction.

I'm confused. Which is Neb?

Excluding the banned one... none of 'em. Their join dates seem solid.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Excluding the banned one... none of 'em. Their join dates seem solid.

Lol... so... how do you guys determine a Neb suspect? Are all new members doomed to having their account restricted due to being a suspected Neb sock? Serious question. Really.

He has a method writing that tends to give him away. Also, there are very few people who join this forum and can be called knowledgeable on Star Wars. Any new member that displays such knowledge, or starts speaking of members here like he/she has spoken to them before, is typically a Neb sock.

Or Really friendly and has no life.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Any new member that displays such knowledge, or starts speaking of members here like he/she has spoken to them before, is typically a Neb sock.insane

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Lol... so... how do you guys determine a Neb suspect? Are all new members doomed to having their account restricted due to being a suspected Neb sock? Serious question. Really.

It happened to me. The only reason they stopped thinking it was becuase I was, quote, 'too stoopid to be Neb'. As I recall BoratBorat accused me of raping my own mother in the same post. Which was pretty random.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He has a method writing that tends to give him away. Also, there are very few people who join this forum and can be called knowledgeable on Star Wars. Any new member that displays such knowledge, or starts speaking of members here like he/she has spoken to them before, is typically a Neb sock.

Alright. Makes sense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It happened to me. The only reason they stopped thinking it was becuase I was, quote, 'too stoopid to be Neb'. As I recall BoratBorat accused me of raping my own mother in the same post. Which was pretty random.

Originally posted by ghostrider1
So Yoda and Mace run the gauntlet, simply say which one they would lose at.

Scenario: Mace and Yoda are thrown into the Geonosis arena and are faced by opponents stage by stage. They decide to team up to take them down, will they survive?

1. Darth Maul
2. Asajj Ventress
3. ATOC Anakin and ATOC Obi Wan
4. Count Dooku and 5 battle droids.
5. ROTS Obi Wan and Shaak Ti
6. General Greivous and 3 Magnaguards
7. ROTS Anakin, Kit Fisto and Agen Kolar
8. Jango Fett and 30 Clone troopers
9. Luke Skywalker (ROTJ), Han Solo, Chewbacca, Ben Kenobi
10. Darth Vader, Galen Marek and Rahm Kota
11. Darth Sidious and Darth Vader
12. 3 Expirienced Jedi Masters, 6 Jedi Knights, 10 Jedi Padawans, Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, Coleman kcaj, Eoth Koth.

Where would they survive. Remember Stamina as it will be pretty tiring.

I'd have to say they'd struggle at 9, scrape through 10 and be owned in 11 due to loss of stamina and overally Sidious is one bad...

Me thinks that they, or at least Yoda, still (regardless of the overwhelming numbers of #12) make(s) it through.

Look at the timestamps. There are a ton of messages within a minute of each other, which can only mean one thing: Slash and/or Matt have created "throwaway identities" as per the Wiggin internet world-conquest system. FEAR FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

yay! Wiggin reference!!! Card is the man!

Doesn't surprise me you read Ender's Game.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Look at the timestamps. There are a ton of messages within a minute of each other, which can only mean one thing: Slash and/or Matt have created "throwaway identities" as per the Wiggin internet world-conquest system. FEAR FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

I blame Matt.

Ender's game was a life changing experience. It didn't change my life, but it certainly was awesome.

I read Ender's Game and then decided I never wanted to read anything else by Orson Scot Card.

Frank Herbert on the other hand...

Pastwatch==best book ever. But the Wiggin's throw away reference was from Endor's Shadow, right?

I have done nothing! Been hitting the bases today .

Originally posted by Autokrat
I read Ender's Game and then decided I never wanted to read anything else by Orson Scot Card.

Frank Herbert on the other hand...
Dune? That book does not deserve its status. It was an acceptable science fiction book. Nothing more. Then I read one of the sequels and almost died from the terribleness.

The experience even tainted my memory of the original book. Bleh.

Double post.
Originally posted by truejedi
Pastwatch==best book ever. But the Wiggin's throw away reference was from Endor's Shadow, right?

I liked pastwatch. I was talking about Ender's Game though. chapter 9? 14? something like that. The two other children plot to take over the world. Ender's Shadow is just the nuts and bolts.

not a dune fan either. But i wasn't kidding. Go read Pastwatch. do it NOW.

Dude:
1. your nt teh bos v me
2. i did that already
3. aight.

well, there are actually a whole series of them, which i'm sure you are aware of. Speaker for the Dead was pretty sweet. and then a couple more... Its een a few years though. The Hegemon was also good. I can't remember them all, but all worth the read.

Ender's Game
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind
*Ender's Shadow
*Shadow of the giant
*Shadow of the Hegemon
Ender in Exile

*These are about Bean and I am almost certain that I've forgotten one?
Also: These are not in chronological order.

question: did he ever write another pastwatch? or is it just the one about Columbus?

he was going to. it is currently being written i think.


is Ender in Exile the one that just came out last year? I hadn't read that one yet.

yeah that's the new one.

Not his best. Also: I'm peeved that he's going to edit the original EG last chapter to make it fit. That seems wrong. (Although tbh I'm not entirely sure what the change is supposed to be...)

I didn't really get called neb alot because I had a sig/avvy.

Revan Solos

I guess tey die at 10, they'll likely be exhausted by the previous and couldn't hold them off for too long before dying.

Originally posted by RazorMesias
I guess tey die at 10, they'll likely be exhausted by the previous and couldn't hold them off for too long before dying.

Ain't no way Yoda's going down. Mace maybe, even likely at 10, but NOT Yoda.

that entire gauntlet is a case of men against boys.

Originally posted by truejedi
that entire gauntlet is a case of men against boys.

Exactly!!!

No way are any of them gonna beat Yoda! The most highly skilled Jedi in history would easily be able take all of them. Mace Would just be support. I can see him (Mace) being killed in the last round due to overwhelming numbers, but not Yoda, he's just tooooo good!

yoda and mace probably win every fight with some trouble at anakin

but that problem shouldn't be too hard since they know how to fight by each other by then

OP
So Yoda and Mace run the gauntlet, simply say which one they would lose at.

Scenario: Mace and Yoda are thrown into the Geonosis arena and are faced by opponents stage by stage. They decide to team up to take them down, will they survive?

1. Darth Maul
2. Asajj Ventress
3. ATOC Anakin and ATOC Obi Wan
4. Count Dooku and 5 battle droids.
5. ROTS Obi Wan and Shaak Ti
6. General Greivous and 3 Magnaguards
7. ROTS Anakin, Kit Fisto and Agen Kolar
8. Jango Fett and 30 Clone troopers
9. Luke Skywalker (ROTJ), Han Solo, Chewbacca, Ben KenobiCake.
I'll assume this is Marek post-conversion (if not, Jedi win handily) and Kota before he was blinded.

I think it's reasonable to assert that Yoda and Palpatine were roughly equal in power at the conclusion of the PT. A quarter century later, it's been made clear that Palpatine has grown stronger. The question is, how much stronger? Given that Vader - and likely by extension, Marek - commands power equivalent to about four fifths that of the Emperor, it's possible that either of them could contend with Yoda in a contest of the Force if the Emperor's increase in power between the PT and OT lies near the upper bound of that last fifth.

However, if the Emperor did not experience an increase in overall power equivalent to at least a tenth his OT power - if he had already passed the four fifths benchmark by the end of the PT - it's unlikely that Vader or Marek will be able to hold Yoda off for very long at all; for all his prodigious strength, Marek - the greater of the duo in question - was ultimately deemed "no match" for the Emperor's powers. If having more than four fifths of the Sith Lord's power isn't enough to slow him down significantly, and if the Emperor isn't that much more powerful than he was when he fought Yoda, this particular battle probably won't go too well for the trio.

While I understand that Yoda would neither be as strong or savage as Palpatine, he's strong and savage enough to kill telekinetically if he needs to, and his ability to handle Sith lightning - apparently a favorite of Marek's - appears to be unrivaled in the mythos.

Ultimately, I don't how this one goes. In my mind it hinges on an answer we don't have, and I've never been especially familiar with most of the sources chronicling Sidious' post-PT growth. I think Windu's capable of taking Vader or Marek through the merits of Vaapad, shatterpoint, and his own considerable command of the Force, which should allow him to counter or evade enough of their attacks that he can close to melee range. None of the trio stand a chance if that happens.

Kota's another wildcard here. He's an extraordinarily capable soldier in his own right, particularly given his strength in the Force. If he can throw Mace off at all, either Vader or Marek can take point for the kill.

If my suspicions are correct, though, I think Yoda's probably fast and powerful enough to sweep his opponent after a short, brutal struggle. Kota goes down hard, and whoever's left - almost regardless of whether or not Mace is still up - doesn't stand a chance alone.

If OT Sidious, the Sith win. If not, they probably don't.

Honestly, this is probably easier than the preceding two rounds. Yoda and Mace are in a league of their own here, and if they cut loose the Padawans, Knights, and probably the generic Masters won't last long at all. The Council members are all spectacular swordsmen, but none have demonstrated proficiency in any relevant category that suggests they can challenge the two greatest warriors in the Order. Their numbers are more likely to be a hindrance to their saber prowess, anyway.

Good thread, though.

The statistic provided by George Lucas probably requires alternate interpretation; the truth is that there is no basis for Vader having four-fifths of the Emperor's power unless, as you suggest, that final fifth is incredibly significant.

Really, Palpatine was pulling his punches with Marek and demonstrated by the alternate ending, could have truly kicked his ass whenever he felt so inclined -- it was not a close duel or a struggle for the Emperor to subdue Marek when necessary.

The level of fear he inspires in Vader and Dooku suggests quite strongly that he's at least a tier above them.

Gideon
The statistic provided by George Lucas probably requires alternate interpretation; the truth is that there is no basis for Vader having four-fifths of the Emperor's power unless, as you suggest, that final fifth is incredibly significant.

Really, Palpatine was pulling his punches with Marek and demonstrated by the alternate ending, could have truly kicked his ass whenever he felt so inclined -- it was not a close duel or a struggle for the Emperor to subdue Marek when necessary.

The level of fear he inspires in Vader and Dooku suggests quite strongly that he's at least a tier above them.I know.

What I'm not sure of is roughly how much of his OT power Palpatine had acquired by ROTS. I think that's information we need to decide how Yoda's strength in the Force compares to that of Vader and Marek.

I know you know.

I was re-reading Dark Rendezvous the other day and, in addition to establishing it as the ultimate piece of Star Wars literature (surpassing the Revenge of the Sith novelization, et al.), I gleamed over the passage where Dooku criticizes his Master's "needlessly complex" strategies for winning the war. Therein is this little gem: "Not that he would question the power of Darth Sidious. The dark secrets at his command."

Labyrinth of Evil, Dark Rendezvous, and even Asajj Ventress's newly established Clone Wars profile make it abundantly clear that the Count and his underlings regard Sidious with an almost absurd level of fear and respect. That Dooku does not extend this same level of reverence to Yoda is interesting; to Dooku, Sidious is obviously more terrifying and dangerous.

(Which makes his musings toward the end of the book regarding a dark Yoda all the more interesting.)



Well, canon confirms that Palpatine became a recluse and delegated the responsibilities of running the Empire to his advisors; Sate Pestage, in particular, was Emperor in all but name by the Battle of Hoth. The Dark Empire Sourcebook mentions that Palpatine used the scope of his political authority to gather the greatest works of Force knowledge in the galaxy.

Twenty years of uninterrupted rule with unlimited access to mind-boggling amount of Force related information and equipped with a prodigious intellect?

I mean, it's impossible to give an exact figure, but there's definitely reason to suggest that Palpatine easily doubled his mastery of existing Force techniques. His post-RotS feats are highly impressive related to combat and aggressive Force maneuvers.

The Emperor is clearly on a tier above Vader; despite the "80%" figure from George Lucas, Vader wasn't comfortable attacking Palpatine with Marek at once, demonstrated by TFU. The dark side ending and analysis of TFU also indicates quite clearly that Palpatine is more than capable of annihilating Marek -- it isn't close at all in a practical fight scenario.

Yoda is likely the more dangerous opponent than Vader or Marek due to his small size, agility, and speed. But I don't necessarily agree that his Force powers were considerably superior.

Originally posted by Gideon


Labyrinth of Evil, Dark Rendezvous, and even Asajj Ventress's newly established Clone Wars profile make it abundantly clear that the Count and his underlings regard Sidious with an almost absurd level of fear and respect. That Dooku does not extend this same level of reverence to Yoda is interesting; to Dooku, Sidious is obviously more terrifying and dangerous.

(Which makes his musings toward the end of the book regarding a dark Yoda all the more interesting.)




I would say fear of the unknown and the unfamiliary had much to do with the fear that Dooku had towards sidious as opposed to Yoda, who trained Dooku from a child.

The quotes towards the end were pretty clear: A dark Yoda would be untouchable by anyone that Dooku had ever heard of. He uses some pretty strong wording, and includes Sidious by name when discussing opponents that wouldn't stand a chance against such a Yoda.

truejedi
I would say fear of the unknown and the unfamiliary had much to do with the fear that Dooku had towards sidious as opposed to Yoda, who trained Dooku from a child.

The quotes towards the end were pretty clear: A dark Yoda would be untouchable by anyone that Dooku had ever heard of. He uses some pretty strong wording, and includes Sidious by name when discussing opponents that wouldn't stand a chance against such a Yoda.

?

You can't very well say that Dooku has "fear of the unknown" regarding Sidious and then suggest that Dooku's personal beliefs regarding a dark Yoda v. Sidious are anything resembling accurate.

By the way, it's not like the Count had just met his Master three weeks prior to that book. "Having studied under a merciless Master, Darth Sidious, Dooku now wields the full power of the Force's darker secrets." (his Clone Wars biography)

Seems pretty exhaustive to me.

what impresses me about palpatine is that he is a match for yoda in the force at all, considering that if you factor what you said about sideous and his access to lore, and compare it to yoda, but multiplied by hundreds of years, there is no doubt that yoda should (feats contradict this) be the most powerful force user in history bar one or two people like luke, who is so strong in the force that he can make up for a lack of experience.

i mean, the man had 800+ years and full access to the largest databank of force knowledge in the galaxy... theres really no excuse for why he shouldnt know and be able to perform almost every technique out there.

but to then, with all that knowledge, be stalemated by someone with barely even 10% of your years of experience and teachings... speaks very well for sideous.

Originally posted by Gideon
?

You can't very well say that Dooku has "fear of the unknown" regarding Sidious and then suggest that Dooku's personal beliefs regarding a dark Yoda v. Sidious are anything resembling accurate.

By the way, it's not like the Count had just met his Master three weeks prior to that book. "Having studied under a merciless Master, Darth Sidious, Dooku now wields the full power of the Force's darker secrets." (his Clone Wars biography)

Seems pretty exhaustive to me.

he didn't have nearly the contact with Darth Sidious he did with Yoda though. He didn't leave the order till he was almost 60, right? and then the most training he could have had under sidious after the death of Maul was 10 years.

truejedi
he didn't have nearly the contact with Darth Sidious he did with Yoda though.

In terms of length of training, sure. But then you have to factor in that Yoda was training hundreds of other disciples and that Thame Cerulian was Dooku's actual Master.

Meanwhile, it was Sidious and Dooku relatively one-on-one for over a decade.



What's your point?

Originally posted by Gideon

Well, canon confirms that Palpatine became a recluse and delegated the responsibilities of running the Empire to his advisors; Sate Pestage, in particular, was Emperor in all but name by the Battle of Hoth. The Dark Empire Sourcebook mentions that Palpatine used the scope of his political authority to gather the greatest works of Force knowledge in the galaxy.
Gotta love the similarities between this and the new Star Wars game. The Sith Emperor builds an "empire" and disappears to pursue his mysterious goals.

Originally posted by Gideon


Meanwhile, it was Sidious and Dooku relatively one-on-one for over a decade.





Sidious was kinda running a GALAXY during that decade though. At least as distracted as Yoda was running a Jedi Order.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Gotta love the similarities between this and the new Star Wars game. The Sith Emperor builds an "empire" and disappears to pursue his mysterious goals. I've always wondered fictitious villains intend to do when they achieve their goals. World domination, universal destruction... then what?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I've always wondered fictitious villains intend to do when they achieve their goals. World domination, universal destruction... then what? This.

....i actually liked that movie......

love that movie!