Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Thanos with the IG vs Supes with the CA.
One on one fight.
CIS and PIS are off
Bloodlust is on.
Fight takes place somewhere both IG and CA are COMPLETELY functional.

FIGHT!

Cosmic Armor adapts to anything the IG can throw at it.

CA by a large majority. I can't see the Ig even denting Supers with the CA.

The CA could clearly be hurt and hurt enough to not be functional anymore. Lets not act like its not beatable.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The CA could clearly be hurt and hurt enough to not be functional anymore. Lets not act like its not beatable.
Not by the IG

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The CA could clearly be hurt and hurt enough to not be functional anymore. Lets not act like its not beatable.
Mandrakk was feeding off all of reality when he fought Superman. The IG never fought any being on Mandrakk's level.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Mandrakk was feeding off all of reality when he fought Superman. The IG never fought any being on Mandrakk's level.
Mandrakk=BCA Galactus who was also feeding on all of reality. IG>>>>>Galactus

Originally posted by galactusischere
Mandrakk=BCA Galactus who was also feeding on all of reality. IG>>>>>Galactus
Mandrakk was easily more powerful than the rest of the Monitors combined. He was the Ultimate threat that could only be defeated by Superman in the CA.
Prov that BCA Galactus was that powerful.

Madrakk > Spectre AND Radiant

CA >= Madrakk

The CA is something like the HOTU of the DC Universe IMHO.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Mandrakk=BCA Galactus who was also feeding on all of reality. IG>>>>>Galactus
hell and no.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Mandrakk was easily more powerful than the rest of the Monitors combined. He was the Ultimate threat that could only be defeated by Superman in the CA.
Prov that BCA Galactus was that powerful. That's hyperbole for the story. Don't fall for it. The ca matched his eternal power, but from what we saw it wasn't anywhere near as impressive as the ig.

Ig wins all ten.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's hyperbole for the story. Don't fall for it. The ca matched his eternal power, but from what we saw it wasn't anywhere near as impressive as the ig.

Ig wins all ten. The most impressive thing the Ig did was be worn by Thanos.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
The most impressive thing the Ig did was be worn by Thanos. The ig could separate Supes from his armor. It could freeze him in time or go back to before he attained it.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Madrakk > Spectre AND Radiant

CA >= Madrakk

The CA is something like the HOTU of the DC Universe IMHO. i agree.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The ig could separate Supes from his armor. It could freeze him in time or go back to before he attained it.
No.

Cosmic Armor

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No. Why can't it do so? This is a perfectly viable tactic. Supes just got as strong as he needed to against Mandrakk he didn't resist said tactic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why can't it do so? This is a perfectly viable tactic. Supes just got as strong as he needed to against Mandrakk he didn't resist said tactic. That would be leaving the Battle field which would give Thanos the lose.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
That would be leaving the Battle field which would give Thanos the lose. With the ig he can still be on the battlefield and leave it. He controls space and can be everywhere at once and nowhere.

CA.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
CA. How?

Ig has the feats to back it up. Though, the amount of statement, the point of the story helps Mandrakks, and Superman's case.

In this case, I give this to CA.

IF a weak version of Mandrakk was able to easily own Spectre and Radiant, I don't want to see what the real can do. And that's not even equal to what CA Superman is.

The CA losses to HOTU imo.. everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Furthermore, imo how is the CA like the HOTU powerwise?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The CA losses to HOTU imo.. everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Furthermore, imo how is the CA like the HOTU powerwise? What did the heart do that the CA will not adapt to?

CA

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The CA losses to HOTU imo.. everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Furthermore, imo how is the CA like the HOTU powerwise?
I'm going to have to agree. If HOTU is really the power of omnipotent as it should be, then it should be above CA Superman

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I'm going to have to agree. If HOTU is really the power of omnipotent as it should be, then it should be above CA Superman They are both the Uber Weapons of their respective Writers. Seems like the same thing.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
What did the heart do that the CA will not adapt to?

It sends 1000000000000 Mandrakks, the CA won't outlast them.

Originally posted by Bentley
It sends 1000000000000 Mandrakks, the CA won't outlast them.
The IG never showed the Ability to do anything like that. It's best feat was turning a fumbling Quasar into nothing when he was trying to use the UN.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
The IG never showed the Ability to do anything like that. It's best feat was turning a fumbling Quasar into nothing when he was trying to use the UN.


I was talking about the Heart.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
They are both the Uber Weapons of their respective Writers. Seems like the same thing.
No. They are different. The CA doesn't give you omnipotent power. Though, it does defend against the greatest evil that isn't an omnipotent.

However, I do think that CA Superman and Mandrakk are as close to Omnipotent as possible.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No. They are different. The CA doesn't give you omnipotent power. Though, it does defend against the greatest evil that isn't an omnipotent.

However, I do think that CA Superman and Mandrakk are as close to Omnipotent as possible.

Do you think Mandrakk was the opposite of god in a way? He like almost devoured existence. And who created the Cosmic Armor?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Do you think Mandrakk was the opposite of god in a way? He like almost devoured existence. And who created the Cosmic Armor?
Mandrakk created the Cosmic Armor.
Mandrakk is a Monitor. The first of the monitors to discover the multiverse and the Bleed. He also learned of the Void and such. Throughout his mission, he also discovered that the monitors had the ability to feed on this "germ"(dcu). He released what a monitor will eventually become. In time, he create an armor which he believe would be enough to stop him. He also locked himself in the Void(the body of the Primal Monitor). From there, he was free to feed on DCU, but unable to destroy it. However, after Darkseid fell, the seal weakened and he was able to build a bridge(metaphor) from the void to DCU to invade and devour it.

However, before he entered DCU, Superman was there to stop him from becoming even stronger. Superman then pushed him into the Void where the idea of him was lost. So any Monitor can become like Mandrakk, given enough time.

To answer you question if he was opposite of god. I don't know. You could look at it two ways.
1- PM is who created Mandrakk. However, DCU was a germ to him. DCU has it's own god. Though, Mandrakk can even eat on him(since he was eating DCU)
2- PM and the Presence are the same being. And Mandrakk is not the opposite of god, but just below it.

The second one makes more sense. It like a Omnipotent being noticed a place full of stories, people, heroes, villains...etc. He sent the monitors to understand it. These monitors are like Angel(this is what the author kind of said). Although, they adapted to the universe they were charged to over see.

Originally posted by quanchi112
With the ig he can still be on the battlefield and leave it. He controls space and can be everywhere at once and nowhere.
The realm that Superman was in when he was in the Cosmic Armor was beyond the Multiverse, it was beyond space and time. Superman may not even notice Thanos' pathetic attempts to attack him.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime


CA >= Madrakk nope

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Mandrakk created the Cosmic Armor.
Mandrakk is a Monitor. The first of the monitors to discover the multiverse and the Bleed. He also learned of the Void and such. Throughout his mission, he also discovered that the monitors had the ability to feed on this "germ"(dcu). He released what a monitor will eventually become. In time, he create an armor which he believe would be enough to stop him. He also locked himself in the Void(the body of the Primal Monitor). From there, he was free to feed on DCU, but unable to destroy it. However, after Darkseid fell, the seal weakened and he was able to build a bridge(metaphor) from the void to DCU to invade and devour it.

However, before he entered DCU, Superman was there to stop him from becoming even stronger. Superman then pushed him into the Void where the idea of him was lost. So any Monitor can become like Mandrakk, given enough time.

To answer you question if he was opposite of god. I don't know. You could look at it two ways.
1- PM is who created Mandrakk. However, DCU was a germ to him. DCU has it's own god. Though, Mandrakk can even eat on him(since he was eating DCU)
2- PM and the Presence are the same being. And Mandrakk is not the opposite of god, but just below it.

The second one makes more sense. It like a Omnipotent being noticed a place full of stories, people, heroes, villains...etc. He sent the monitors to understand it. These monitors are like Angel(this is what the author kind of said). Although, they adapted to the universe they were charged to over see.

Thanks.

I don't know about PM and Presence being the same being. That was never really confirmed. What if PM is above the Presence? Presence is a god with a lowercase g and the PM is the ruler of all?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
nope
Yes. That's a fact as seen by the fact that the CA defeated Mandrakk but was broken as a result.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Thanks.

I don't know about PM and Presence being the same being. That was never really confirmed. What if PM is above the Presence? Presence is a god with a lowercase g and the PM is the ruler of all?
I just hope one day DC rectifies their cosmic chain o command. I mean Marvel isn't perfect but at least they establish that TOAA is well above all and LT is number two. (I don't count the Heart because its technically just a vessel of the TOAA's power)

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yes. That's a fact as seen by the fact that the CA defeated Mandrakk but was broken as a result. but iirc Supe wuz LOSING to Mandrak right? his armor got damage (even tho its suppose to adapt)

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
but iirc Supe wuz LOSING to Mandrak right? his armor got damage (even tho its suppose to adapt)
So? He beat him meaning he was either equal to or greater than Mandrakk. What part of that can't you understand?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Marvel isn't perfect but at least they establish that TOAA is well above all wut about Beyonder? (before retcon)
or HOM wanda?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
wut about Beyonder? (before retcon)
or HOM wanda?
HOM Wanda isn't near the TOAA. Beyonder was different but there's a reason he was retconned: Marvel changed their mind and made a rule that no one but the TOAA was above the LT.

Well, they retconned the Beyonder didn't they?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The realm that Superman was in when he was in the Cosmic Armor was beyond the Multiverse, it was beyond space and time. Superman may not even notice Thanos' pathetic attempts to attack him.
Yup, they are where the forgotten are. The void


You're right. It wasn't stated. One can only assume that they are the one or the same, or two different beings. So if they are the same, Mandrakk was eating DCU (everything including Mxy, Lucifer..etc), but not the Presence who is outside of DCU(?). If it the second one, that would mean he was eating someone like an omnipotent being.

COIE Anti-Monitor vs Mandrakk. Who wins? AM at his peak.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
but iirc Supe wuz LOSING to Mandrak right? his armor got damage (even tho its suppose to adapt)
He adapted enough to beat him. Get it

What is the armor made out of? It's some technological miracle, right?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
What is the armor made out of? It's some technological miracle, right?
Divine metals and powered by the story of Superman. Its beyond technology.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So? He beat him meaning he was either equal to or greater than Mandrakk. What part of that can't you understand? how bout that part:Originally posted by Omega Vision
and powered by the story of Superman. Its beyond technology. BINGO point is supe beat him not cuz the armor is more powerfull (mandrak said supe and amor wuz both damage beyond repair or somethin) but only cuz Supe is da hero (its HIS story so he gotta win lol)


but here TS said no PIS or CIS in this fight, so there!

Originally posted by Omega Vision
HOM Wanda isn't near the TOAA. but dat wave wuz gonna destroy all of MU right? so that include TOAA & everythin else

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
but dat wave wuz gonna destroy all of MU right? so that include TOAA & everythin else
No. What gave you that idea? TOAA is outside of the Marvel Multiverse. HOM Wanda didn't do anything that impressive.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
how bout that part: BINGO point is supe beat him not cuz the armor is more powerfull (mandrak said supe and amor wuz both damage beyond repair or somethin) but only cuz Supe is da hero (its HIS story so he gotta win lol)


but here TS said no PIS or CIS in this fight, so there!
Superman is part of the Cosmic Armor. He was above Mandrakk, your argument is crap.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
What is the armor made out of? It's some technological miracle, right?
Divine Metal
It is powered by a story.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman is part of the Cosmic Armor. He was above Mandrakk, your argument is crap. "part o the armor"??? u aint makin no f-in sense that contradict ur own argument ("its power by story"

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
"part o the armor"??? your aint makin no f-in sense. that contradict ur previous argument ("its power by story"
No I'm not. The armor is the concept of Superman and its powered by his story. The two (Superman and the armor) are one in the same.

Can't believe the IG is losing.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Can't believe the IG is losing.
Believe it, it has no feats that put it on a real Multiversal level.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Believe it, it has no feats that put it on a real Multiversal level.
If thats why..
1-http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.jpg
2-http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7392/earthalignment39jd.jpg
3-http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7648/galactusabraxas2.jpg

Abraxas would have destroyed the multi-verse and created it in his own image and would have became supreme.

And and incomplete IG owned the UN.

Originally posted by galactusischere
If thats why..
1-http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.jpg
2-http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7392/earthalignment39jd.jpg
3-http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7648/galactusabraxas2.jpg

Abraxas would have destroyed the multi-verse and created it in his own image and would have became supreme.

And and incomplete IG owned the UN.
No!
The UN has to have a good user to be efficient. This is why Reed was the only one to stop Abraxas. Other then that, there must be Galactus. No one else would really be enough.

We also don't know how powerful that UN's blast was. If I am wrong, please prove me wrong./

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No!
The UN has to have a good user to be efficient. This is why Reed was the only one to stop Abraxas. Other then that, there must be Galactus. No one else would really be enough.

We also don't know how powerful that UN's blast was. If I am wrong, please prove me wrong./
We know that it was poweful enough to atleast erase and recreate the multi-verse in a blink of an eye.
and Quasar wasn't exactly the "right" person to use the UN, however the IG that owned the UN was also incomplete.

Originally posted by galactusischere
We know that it was poweful enough to atleast erase and recreate the multi-verse in a blink of an eye.
and Quasar wasn't exactly the "right" person to use the UN, however the IG that owned the UN was also incomplete.
It was quasar using the UN. And quasar himself stated he could erase the universe if he messed up. obviously he didn't set it to multiversal erasing power.

Originally posted by galactusischere
We know that it was poweful enough to atleast erase and recreate the multi-verse in a blink of an eye.
and Quasar wasn't exactly the "right" person to use the UN, however the IG that owned the UN was also incomplete.
The blast didn't have the power to destroy a universe let alone multiverse

^^What Zeuodin said

Originally posted by Zeuodin
It was quasar using the UN. And quasar himself stated he could erase the universe if he messed up. obviously he didn't set it to multiversal erasing power.
so..
INCOMPLETE IG>weaker version of UN>universe.
Omega vision said that limbo(around the same size of a universe) compared to CA supes was like a snack bar.
and a complete IG was more powerful than Eternity, Infinity, Galactus, Hate, Chaos, Order, Love, Surfer, 2 celestials, and all heroes of earth.
That right there is multiversal don't you think?

^ Get it straight. Magus w/ incomplete IG > Quasar w/ UN.

And no. That doesn't make it multiversal. Not even in the slightest.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Get it straight. Magus w/ incomplete IG > Quasar w/ UN.

And no. That doesn't make it multiversal. Not even in the slightest.
So now people are arguing that UN>IG?

Originally posted by galactusischere
So now people are arguing that UN>IG?
the UN has always been > The IG by actual feats.

Originally posted by galactusischere
So now people are arguing that UN>IG?
You don't seem to understand.

It takes a great mind to use the UN effectively. Reed is one of them, as well as Galactus. Quasar is not. The UN can restart the multiverse, univeres, or smaller amount. Since Quasar wasn't a good user of UN, you can't expect him to use it to it's full potential. In addition, Zeuodin already said that Quasar stated he could destroy the universe if he messed up. This shows that his intentions were not to use a blast that can destroy a universe

Originally posted by Zeuodin
the UN has always been > The IG by actual feats.
UN can beat all of the abstracts including the big 3 with ease?
UN vs IG is like Power Vs. power and versatality

Originally posted by galactusischere
UN can beat all of the abstracts including the big 3 with ease?
UN vs IG is like Power Vs. power and versatality
No. The UN is like a Nuclear Plant vs the IG, an emergency generator.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No. The UN is like a Nuclear Plant vs the IG, an emergency generator.
Someone with IG can go back in time and destroy Galactus when he was creating the ultimate nullifier.
Plus defeating eternity and infinity(living embodiments of time and space), Death, Galactus, Hate, Love, Order, Hate, Ziran, TOAA AND on top of that ALL of the heroes on earth.
How the hell is that NOT multiversal?

^ ]The IG never beat Infinity. The one time Infinity was involved in any story involving the IG was when Infinity combined with Eternity and stopped Magus with an incomplete IG in Infinity War. Beating down the Abstracts of the 616 Universe makes the IG universal. Destroying and recreating the entire Marvel Multiverse in a blink makes the UN multiversal. IG has done nothing close to that scope of power.

btw why dint Thanos try to get the UN instead o wastin his time going after all the gems?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
btw why dint Thanos try to get the UN instead o wastin his time going after all the gems? Who knew the UN could do what it did until Reed came along and the need arose? Also The UN just resets everything. thanos wanted control. mental, physical, spiritual, etc.

IG in a stomp.

This is ridiculous. CA wins.

Originally posted by shokosugi
This is ridiculous. CA wins.

Infinity Gauntlet

Originally posted by quanchi112
How?

By instantly adapting, instantly is the word, adapting to any threat the other.

You said the ig would seperate Supes from the CA. This is an threat it would adapt instantly to and prevent it .

Hm. Someone would use the HOTU against Thanos with the IG. Who would win? Could Thanos seperate the Wielder from the HOTU?

Thanos with the IG vs Thanos with the HOTU. Who would win?

The CA could probably adapt even to the powers of the HOTU. Which doesn't mean that it would win. Stalemate as both are the greatest devices both companies built.

Originally posted by Nihilist
IG in a stomp.

Care to prove that?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Divine metals and powered by Superman PIS. Its beyond technology.

thought so...

I said Cosmic Armor Supes for the Rape stomp

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Get it straight. Magus w/ incomplete IG > Quasar w/ UN.

And no. That doesn't make it multiversal. Not even in the slightest. Galactus was also in the story as was reed. Just because a feat happened years later don't act like it would have meant a difference against the ig. The ig can stop it, see their action before it happens, etc. The ig always wins against the un because of its versatility.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Ig has the feats to back it up. Though, the amount of statement, the point of the story helps Mandrakks, and Superman's case.

In this case, I give this to CA.

IF a weak version of Mandrakk was able to easily own Spectre and Radiant, I don't want to see what the real can do. And that's not even equal to what CA Superman is. You don't seem to get that the Spectre isn't as powerful or capable of that the ig is capable of.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
What did the heart do that the CA will not adapt to? The ca adapted to Mandrakk's powers not the ig or the heart. Eternal power vs. the ability to control space, time, soul,power, reality, and the mind isn't even close by what Mandrakk accomplished in his story.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
The IG never showed the Ability to do anything like that. It's best feat was turning a fumbling Quasar into nothing when he was trying to use the UN. That's its best feat? LOL.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The realm that Superman was in when he was in the Cosmic Armor was beyond the Multiverse, it was beyond space and time. Superman may not even notice Thanos' pathetic attempts to attack him. What? The ca was made to stop Mandrakk not something like the ig. They fight in the same battlefield.Originally posted by Zeuodin
the UN has always been > The IG by actual feats. In an actual story the ig has always been better. The un had one feat way after the fact that have people mistakenly assume it's somehow better than the ig.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
By instantly adapting, instantly is the word, adapting to any threat the other.

You said the ig would seperate Supes from the CA. This is an threat it would adapt instantly to and prevent it .

Hm. Someone would use the HOTU against Thanos with the IG. Who would win? Could Thanos seperate the Wielder from the HOTU?

Thanos with the IG vs Thanos with the HOTU. Who would win?

The CA could probably adapt even to the powers of the HOTU. Which doesn't mean that it would win. Stalemate as both are the greatest devices both companies built. The armor was made to stop Mandrakk not the ig. Mandrakk doesn't have the abilities the ig does nor will he ever.

Ig wins any which way.

Hey, this thread is kind of my fault. I feel so proud!

Maybe, but Spectre and Radiant<a weak Mandrakk

A powerful Mandrakk wouldn't even notice them.



No, it wasn't. The CA was created to stop the ultimate thread. IT turned out to be Mandrakk

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Maybe, but Spectre and Radiant<a weak Mandrakk

A powerful Mandrakk wouldn't even notice them.



No, it wasn't. The CA was created to stop the ultimate thread. IT turned out to be Mandrakk Which again has nothing to do with the ig.


Again, Superman traded blows, held onto a cliff, and didn't show me anything to the point that he could defend himself against the ig's capabilities.

I thought everbody knew that IG>>UN but no.. DC fanboys.

Originally posted by galactusischere
I thought everbody knew that IG>>UN but no.. DC fanboys.
Didn't like 10 people just prove you wrong?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Didn't like 10 people just prove you wrong? When did they?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Didn't like 10 people just prove you wrong?
Just because of ONE feat?
when IG has owned the UN once why would you even say that its weaker?

Originally posted by galactusischere
Just because of ONE feat?
when IG has owned the UN once why would you even say that its weaker? One feat that happened like 8 years later. He doesn't read marvel though.

What are you talking about. DO you know how many people responded to your statement

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What are you talking about. DO you know how many people responded to your statement What did they say that proved their case?

Originally posted by quanchi112
What did they say that proved their case?
Where do you think?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Where do you think? I guess you can't answer the question.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I guess you can't answer the question.
I guess you didn't read the thread

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I guess you didn't read the thread I did, but they never proved anything. That's the point I read their opinions and it falls short against the ig and it's capabilities everytime.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I did, but they never proved anything. That's the point I read their opinions and it falls short against the ig and it's capabilities everytime.
You're in denial
I think Mr. Master also stated that

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You're in denial
I think Mr. Master also stated that Then tell me what seals the deal. I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. You just chime in and try to siphon off other people's arguments and when I ask you a question you have no idea what to say but reread the thread. You can't even quote the points you agree with.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Then tell me what seals the deal. I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. You just chime in and try to siphon off other people's arguments and when I ask you a question you have no idea what to say but reread the thread. You can't even quote the points you agree with.
Funny, I am the first guy who responded to his statement. Then again, you can't possible know that since you probably didn't read the thread

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Funny, I am the first guy who responded to his statement. Then again, you can't possible know that since you probably didn't read the thread Like clockwork. Quote the person who won this debate. Then I can at least argue against a point other than you just cheerleading other people's arguments without understanding the argument itself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Like clockwork. Quote the person who won this debate. Then I can at least argue against a point other than you just cheerleading other people's arguments without understanding the argument itself.
Scan through Page 4. It should be the top

Originally posted by quanchi112
Galactus was also in the story as was reed. Just because a feat happened years later don't act like it would have meant a difference against the ig. The ig can stop it, see their action before it happens, etc. The ig always wins against the un because of its versatility.

You don't seem to get that the Spectre isn't as powerful or capable of that the ig is capable of.

The ca adapted to Mandrakk's powers not the ig or the heart. Eternal power vs. the ability to control space, time, soul,power, reality, and the mind isn't even close by what Mandrakk accomplished in his story.

That's its best feat? LOL.

What? The ca was made to stop Mandrakk not something like the ig. They fight in the same battlefield. In an actual story the ig has always been better. The un had one feat way after the fact that have people mistakenly assume it's somehow better than the ig.

The armor was made to stop Mandrakk not the ig. Mandrakk doesn't have the abilities the ig does nor will he ever.

Ig wins any which way. I responded to pretty much all it here save this post.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ ]The IG never beat Infinity. The one time Infinity was involved in any story involving the IG was when Infinity combined with Eternity and stopped Magus with an incomplete IG in Infinity War. Beating down the Abstracts of the 616 Universe makes the IG universal. Destroying and recreating the entire Marvel Multiverse in a blink makes the UN multiversal. IG has done nothing close to that scope of power. Infinity is just another aspect of Eternity. In a versus battle if someone goes back in time and messed with something and these actions destroy the multiverse does that mean these actions can defeat the ig in combat?




Originally posted by xJLxKing
Scan through Page 4. It should be the top How did you miss all this? Seriously?

I guess responding means you won

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You don't seem to understand.

It takes a great mind to use the UN effectively. Reed is one of them, as well as Galactus. Quasar is not. The UN can restart the multiverse, univeres, or smaller amount. Since Quasar wasn't a good user of UN, you can't expect him to use it to it's full potential. In addition, Zeuodin already said that Quasar stated he could destroy the universe if he messed up. This shows that his intentions were not to use a blast that can destroy a universe

What you and others don't seem to get is Quasar is no morg. As a matter a fact Quasar as CA while Reed doesn't.
Now this is not to say that Quasar is greater than Reed when using the UN. What I'm pointing out is that Quasar is no bumbling idiot who has the brain capacity of an insect. I've seen no suggestion throughout Quasar history that would leave me to believe he was an idiot or incapable of handling the job. Furthermore, some of your guys premise is that if Reed was using it, it would've worked. Please show me any scan or implication or anything that states this? You will find nothing. Furthermore, it was NEVER not once stated why the I was able to overcome the UN. All we know is that the writer was clearly trying to convey the message that in this case, the I >UN. Period. All I see is everybody speculating about whether somebody else could've done a better job.. Well lets take a close look at things shall we... We know the iG grants user incredible versatility. He can control mind, space, time etc. We've seen a user of the I referred to as God. We've seen Galactus can do nothing to an IG user. Yet, its some people's belief that if Galactus had the UN it would've made a difference.. Yet where it when the IG was a threat to the multiverse? No where to be found... We have to remember that destroying the Prime 616 universe or replacing eternity in said universe has multiversal effects. The 616 universe in the backbone of ALL others in Marvel. When your God of the 616 universe and pwing all abstracts in it... You are in fact God of all others. Lets also not forget that Magus with an Incomplete Gauntlet was merging TWO universe together. That is a multiversal feat. Especially when one of the universes was the prime 616 Universe. Lets also remember an Incomplete IG pwned the UN & Quasar.

So, since we know all the IG has been shown to be able to do.. controlling the mind, space time etc etc... What is stopping Magus or Thanos with the IG was turning the UN back on Reed if he was using it? Are we saying Reed's mind is above an IG user? Hardly. That has been one explanation about why the UN was ineffective was because Magus messed with Quasar mind. Okay, and this couldn't also happen with Reed or pretty much most anyone who was using the UN. Lets not forget about all the things the IG can do with space, time, reality etc etc. So many tricks it can do with these gems and yet its hard for people to believe the IG can pwn the UN no matter who the user. The UN fires blasts that do... whatever he needs to do.. Very simple not much really going into such a task. If you have another person that can control space, time, mind, reality.. are you people starting to understand how many things could be done to stop ANY UN user. That is just basic logic and common sense and I'm not sure why this is so difficult to grasp. All we have on panel is the IG was made to beat the UN. The reasons why are PURE speculation by all parties. What we do know is that it won. What is also pure speculation is what would've happened if A, B or C had it. Again nobody really knows. However, as I've shown it seems very likely that it wouldn't make much of a difference who was using it.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I guess responding means you won What did they say that sealed the deal for them? I mean you said I didn't read the thread but I responded to most of their arguments you pointed to already so you didn't read the thread and just briefly skimmed through it.

A later feat doesn't prove the un can defeat the ig in combat. Read a little marvel sometime and you'd get the hint.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What did they say that sealed the deal for them? I mean you said I didn't read the thread but I responded to most of their arguments you pointed to already so you didn't read the thread and just briefly skimmed through it.

A later feat doesn't prove the un can defeat the ig in combat. Read a little marvel sometime and you'd get the hint.
Correction! I didn't read your bullshit

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Correction! I didn't read your bullshit You really don't know as you haven't read the ig nor the story with Abraxas.

The UN has been called by Reed the "most powerful weapon known."

The IG makes the wielder "God" of all reality! ... according to Reed, a host of others & the writer.

Stated on panel and by the writer himself in a Marvel Ager interview.

And there's only one being besides TOAA above "God" ... and that's the LT.

Now, 1000+ years in the future, Protege & Scathan will appear,
and they will be above the LT in power,
and further down the road, at some unknown point,
Humanity itself will evolve into individual Gods,
where they themselves will embody their own Eternity,
and the beginning and end of all things will be at their whim.

THOTI doesn't really count
since that that was a conduit to the source of TOAA's power concerning an 'in-comic story.'

** As for the IG performing a Multiversal feat:

The IG defeated 616 Eternity, which is the base of all power across Time of all Universes.

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/721892_etpf1.jpg

"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is,

the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies,
I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS"

Originally posted by Mr Master
The UN has been called by Reed the "most powerful weapon known."

The IG makes the wielder "God" of all reality! ... according to Reed, a host of others & the writer.

Stated on panel and by the writer himself in a Marvel Ager interview.

And there's only one being besides TOAA above "God" ... and that's the LT.

Now, 1000+ years in the future, Protege & Scathan will appear,
and they will be above the LT in power,
and further down the road, at some unknown point,
Humanity itself will evolve into individual Gods,
where they themselves will embody their own Eternity,
and the beginning and end of all things will be at their whim.

THOTI doesn't really count
since that that was a conduit to the source of TOAA's power concerning an 'in-comic story.'
Let me ask you a question

The attack use by Quasar(with UN), was it the same as the one used by Reed against Abraxas?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Let me ask you a question

The attack use by Quasar(with UN),

was it the same as the one used by Reed against Abraxas?
Absolutely.

The only difference between the two was range/scale.

But the bottom line is,

the same energies that erased the Multiverse by Reed,
are the same energies it took to erase Korvac's universe,
or the concept of just Death by Thanos,
or a even a mouse.

In all cases Time & Space is nullified, only at different scales of course,
one is the surrounding Space-Time of a Mouse,
the other
the surrounding Space-Time of the prime Multiverse.

Both targets are nullified from existence.

** This is why the IG > UN.

Because the IG controlled the energies that can do that to targets.

Originally posted by quanchi112
One feat that happened like 8 years later. He doesn't read marvel though. Well, that would seem to suggest things have changed in my opinion. Or that the UN does become stronger based on the user.

There is one feat the occurred over a decade ago that showed the IG overpowering the UN energies sent by Quasar, or the more recent feat of Reed beating a multiversal entity and resetting the multiverse with the UN.

You mean to tell me that nullifying space around and mouse and nullifying the multiverse is all the same and requires the same amount of power? Who knew? LMAO.

I'd say it contains the same energy, obviously, but at a lesser level.

It's not simply a matter of scale and scope, imo.

Originally posted by Mindset
I'd say it contains the same energy, obviously, but at a lesser level.

It's not simply a matter of scale and scope, imo.
I mean powering my Computer and Powering the White house uses the same kind of energy too. But The power to my computer won't turn me into ash.

Nullifying a mouse just shows a sense of control,
like when Galactus used the UN to seek out and nullify just Korvac in a uni beam format.

Again though, the same energies that would've nullified Korvac,
nullified the Multiverse, and also nullified individual concepts as well.

I've never seen anyone adjust it's level of power, only scale of influence.

The UN bio says nothing about different levels of power either,
only that the greater the mind, the more damage it can do in terms of distance,
nothing more though that I've ever read on panel or in a Handbook.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I mean powering my Computer and Powering the White house uses the same kind of energy too. But The power to my computer won't turn me into ash. Yea, that's what I'm saying...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Infinity is just another aspect of Eternity. In a versus battle if someone goes back in time and messed with something and these actions destroy the multiverse does that mean these actions can defeat the ig in combat?It's errroneous to suggest that the Eternity that fought Thanos in Infinity Gauntlet was a merged Eternity/Infinity. Infinity War made a point to highlight the revelation that Infinity and Eternity are two sides of the same coin. Nobody cares about whether a UN user can beat an IG user. Because at the highest levels we've seen, it's a "who-shoots-first" scenario. And you have to use the artifact's respectively highest showings otherwise you confuse and conflate the individual user's limitations as being the artifact's limitations.

Older depictions of the UN show the sphere of nullification growing slowly from a pinpoint to a an ever encompassing sphere. When Reed used it to its greatest height seen so far, the sphere of nullification, for all intents and purposes was instant across the entire Multiverse.

Don't obfuscate the true issue being debated. The argument has always been which artifact has a greater scope of power. Not whether User X w/ UN beats User Y w/ IG. The UN has a greater scope of power hands-down. Inarguable. It destroyed and recreated the Marvel Multiverse instantly. Best feat that the IG has is taking over the single 616 Universe. Using Magus' stomping of Quasar to reverse-project some sort of Multiversal relevance onto the IG is absurd. You're confusing the user with the artifact. You're confusing the user with the scope of power involved.

Spectre is multiversal. Just because Black Alice can steal his powers doesn't make Black Alice = multiversal+. Red Skull w/ Cosmic Cube can be universal. Cap w/ his fist punching him doesn't make his fist = universal+. A rocket launcher can wreck a building. Me killing the soldier w/ rocket launcher with a handgun doesn't make my handgun = rocket launcher+.

The whole premise is absurd.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's errroneous to suggest that the Eternity that fought Thanos in Infinity Gauntlet was a merged Eternity/Infinity. Infinity War made a point to highlight the revelation that Infinity and Eternity are two sides of the same coin. Nobody cares about whether a UN user can beat an IG user. Because at the highest levels we've seen, it's a "who-shoots-first" scenario. And you have to use the artifact's respectively highest showings otherwise you confuse and conflate the individual user's limitations as being the artifact's limitations.

Older depictions of the UN show the sphere of nullification growing slowly from a pinpoint to a an ever encompassing sphere. When Reed used it to its greatest height seen so far, the sphere of nullification, for all intents and purposes was instant across the entire Multiverse.

Don't obfuscate the true issue being debated. The argument has always been which artifact has a greater scope of power. Not whether User X w/ UN beats User Y w/ IG. The UN has a greater scope of power hands-down. Inarguable. It destroyed and recreated the Marvel Multiverse instantly. Best feat that the IG has is taking over the single 616 Universe. Using Magus' stomping of Quasar to reverse-project some sort of Multiversal relevance onto the IG is absurd. You're confusing the user with the artifact. You're confusing the user with the scope of power involved.

Spectre is multiversal. Just because Black Alice can steal his powers doesn't make Black Alice = multiversal+. Red Skull w/ Cosmic Cube can be universal. Cap w/ his fist punching him doesn't make his fist = universal+. A rocket launcher can wreck a building. Me killing the soldier w/ rocket launcher with a handgun doesn't make my handgun = rocket launcher+.

The whole premise is absurd.
Talk about ownage

UN remade the Multiverse.

IG stomped the power of all UniverseS across Time.

(besides needing the LT himself to interfere with the IG,
actually, by the end of Infinity War,
the order came from TOAA itself to restrict the IG from being used again)

IG makes it's wielder God beneath a power comparable or passing the LT.

This is what we get when we combine all the facts.
(no matter what took place during the Quasar incident. IG >>> UN any day, all day)

Oh, and an incomplete IG turned back its energies upon its wielder.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Talk about ownage

Originally posted by Mr Master
UN remade the Multiverse.

IG stomped the power of all UniverseS across Time.

(besides needing the LT himself to interfere with the IG,
actually, by the end of Infinity War,
the order came from TOAA itself to restrict the IG from being used again)

IG makes it's wielder God beneath a power comparable or passing the LT.

This is what we get when we combine all the facts.
(no matter what took place during the Quasar incident. IG >>> UN any day, all day)

Oh, and an incomplete IG turned back its energies upon its wielder.
As the poster above stated even if the UN is Multiversal in scope (I'm not arguing against that) just because an (admittedly incomplete) IG beat it doesn't immediately make the IG Multiversal/Omniversal. As far as I can tell the IG is a Universal artifact with other versions in other universes.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's errroneous to suggest that the Eternity that fought Thanos in Infinity Gauntlet was a merged Eternity/Infinity. Infinity War made a point to highlight the revelation that Infinity and Eternity are two sides of the same coin. Nobody cares about whether a UN user can beat an IG user. Because at the highest levels we've seen, it's a "who-shoots-first" scenario. And you have to use the artifact's respectively highest showings otherwise you confuse and conflate the individual user's limitations as being the artifact's limitations.

Older depictions of the UN show the sphere of nullification growing slowly from a pinpoint to a an ever encompassing sphere. When Reed used it to its greatest height seen so far, the sphere of nullification, for all intents and purposes was instant across the entire Multiverse.

Don't obfuscate the true issue being debated. The argument has always been which artifact has a greater scope of power. Not whether User X w/ UN beats User Y w/ IG. The UN has a greater scope of power hands-down. Inarguable. It destroyed and recreated the Marvel Multiverse instantly. Best feat that the IG has is taking over the single 616 Universe. Using Magus' stomping of Quasar to reverse-project some sort of Multiversal relevance onto the IG is absurd. You're confusing the user with the artifact. You're confusing the user with the scope of power involved.

Spectre is multiversal. Just because Black Alice can steal his powers doesn't make Black Alice = multiversal+. Red Skull w/ Cosmic Cube can be universal. Cap w/ his fist punching him doesn't make his fist = universal+. A rocket launcher can wreck a building. Me killing the soldier w/ rocket launcher with a handgun doesn't make my handgun = rocket launcher+.

The whole premise is absurd. Beautifully stated.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What you and others don't seem to get is Quasar is no morg. As a matter a fact Quasar as CA while Reed doesn't.
Now this is not to say that Quasar is greater than Reed when using the UN. What I'm pointing out is that Quasar is no bumbling idiot who has the brain capacity of an insect. I've seen no suggestion throughout Quasar history that would leave me to believe he was an idiot or incapable of handling the job. Furthermore, some of your guys premise is that if Reed was using it, it would've worked. Please show me any scan or implication or anything that states this? You will find nothing. Furthermore, it was NEVER not once stated why the I was able to overcome the UN. All we know is that the writer was clearly trying to convey the message that in this case, the I >UN. Period. All I see is everybody speculating about whether somebody else could've done a better job.. Well lets take a close look at things shall we... We know the iG grants user incredible versatility. He can control mind, space, time etc. We've seen a user of the I referred to as God. We've seen Galactus can do nothing to an IG user. Yet, its some people's belief that if Galactus had the UN it would've made a difference.. Yet where it when the IG was a threat to the multiverse? No where to be found... We have to remember that destroying the Prime 616 universe or replacing eternity in said universe has multiversal effects. The 616 universe in the backbone of ALL others in Marvel. When your God of the 616 universe and pwing all abstracts in it... You are in fact God of all others. Lets also not forget that Magus with an Incomplete Gauntlet was merging TWO universe together. That is a multiversal feat. Especially when one of the universes was the prime 616 Universe. Lets also remember an Incomplete IG pwned the UN & Quasar.

So, since we know all the IG has been shown to be able to do.. controlling the mind, space time etc etc... What is stopping Magus or Thanos with the IG was turning the UN back on Reed if he was using it? Are we saying Reed's mind is above an IG user? Hardly. That has been one explanation about why the UN was ineffective was because Magus messed with Quasar mind. Okay, and this couldn't also happen with Reed or pretty much most anyone who was using the UN. Lets not forget about all the things the IG can do with space, time, reality etc etc. So many tricks it can do with these gems and yet its hard for people to believe the IG can pwn the UN no matter who the user. The UN fires blasts that do... whatever he needs to do.. Very simple not much really going into such a task. If you have another person that can control space, time, mind, reality.. are you people starting to understand how many things could be done to stop ANY UN user. That is just basic logic and common sense and I'm not sure why this is so difficult to grasp. All we have on panel is the IG was made to beat the UN. The reasons why are PURE speculation by all parties. What we do know is that it won. What is also pure speculation is what would've happened if A, B or C had it. Again nobody really knows. However, as I've shown it seems very likely that it wouldn't make much of a difference who was using it.

I repeat my stance above. Show me any proof that Reed using the UN would've made a bit of difference when confronting something with the scale and versatility as the IG. As i said above... What is stopping an IG from mind raping Reed or any of its other exotic abilities with time, space, reality just as it did with Quasar. Show me this stated or implied. That is your guys assumption and extrapolation from things. However, what was shown on panel is the IG beat the UN with their respected users. I see zero proof or evidence that suggest anybody else using the UN would've made a conclusive difference and beat the an IG user. So, please show me this proof of that I ask for by addressing this above and my own I quoted above.

UN highest feat was more impressive than anything the IG has ever done, let alone an incomplete IG.

Originally posted by Mr Master
UN remade the Multiverse.

IG stomped the power of all UniverseS across Time.

(besides needing the LT himself to interfere with the IG,
actually, by the end of Infinity War,
the order came from TOAA itself to restrict the IG from being used again)

IG makes it's wielder God beneath a power comparable or passing the LT.

This is what we get when we combine all the facts.
(no matter what took place during the Quasar incident. IG >>> UN any day, all day)

Oh, and an incomplete IG turned back its energies upon its wielder. True.

Hyperbolic attenutation whose only support comes from off-handed remarks, purple prose and just runs counter to the themes of the story.

Unsupported speculation that the order came down from TOAA himself. And even if you could prove that TOAA got involved, it doesn't make the IG "multiversal" by proxy. The Fantastic Four met TOAA and got him to fix Reed's face. Reed's facial complexion isn't multiversally relevant.

Nothing suggested that the 616 IG could surpass the Living Tribunal's power. Living Tribunal's completely discretionary power to simply turn the Infinity Gauntlet "on" or "off" is proof of that. The plain reading of Infinity Watch #1 shows that any confrontation between LT and Adam Warlock would lay waste to the 616 Universe.

No. Magus using his incomplete IG > Quasar using the UN. You're conflating the artifact with the user.

The fallacy of this sort of reasoning is inherent when you extrapolate it and apply it equally onto the IG. Using your faulty logic, the only way the UN could be superior in scope to the incomplete IG would have been if Quasar was completely unaffected by Magus while holding the UN. That in itself is ludicrous since the UN doesn't even grant it's user some sort of powerup/protection. But it's even more ludicrous when you apply that logic on the IG itself: Maelstrom was completely unaffected by Thanos w/ full IG. Outright mocked Thanos for his impotency and operated completely outside of the awareness granted by the full IG. Do we now conclude that Maelstrom > IG? No. We don't. Because we recognize that the IG has feats greater in scope than Maelstrom's.

Using your faulty logic, perfectly extrapolated, we've now arrived in an untenable position resulting in some absurd cosmological hierarchy wherein: Maelstrom (multiversal++ for being immune to IG) > IG (multiversal+ for stomping Quasar) > UN (plain resetting Marvel Multiverse).

Ignoring the absurdity of this faulty logic as applied to the IG itself is a double standard and too convenient. At the same time, going through this exercise in deductive reasoning (as conclusive though it is) shouldn't overshadow the plain application of common sense. We know that a rocket launcher has a greater proven destructive capability than a handgun (just like we know the UN has a greater proven scope of power than the IG). Killing the rocket launcher user with a handgun doesn't reverse-project some sort of rocket launcher+ destructive capability onto the handgun, especially since the handgun has never shown such destructive capability on its own (just like Magus stomping Quasar doesn't reverse-project some sort of multiversal+ scope of power onto the IG, especially since the IG has never shown such scope of power on its own). The premise is absurd. It's just common sense.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I repeat my stance above. Show me any proof that Reed using the UN would've made a bit of difference when confronting something with the scale and versatility as the IG. As i said above... What is stopping an IG from mind raping Reed or any of its other exotic abilities with time, space, reality just as it did with Quasar. Show me this stated or implied. That is your guys assumption and extrapolation from things. However, what was shown on panel is the IG beat the UN with their respected users. I see zero proof or evidence that suggest anybody else using the UN would've made a conclusive difference and beat the an IG user. So, please show me this proof of that I ask for by addressing this above and my own I quoted above. You're confusing the issue being debated here or you're just straw-manning. The issue is whether you can rightly use Magus stomping Quasar to project some multiversal relevance onto the IG when the IG has no multiversal feats. Your queries have nothing to do with this issue.

The simple answer to your question though is between an adept UN user and an adept IG user, it's whoever acts first. It's analogous to pitting a .44 caliber handgun user and a .22 caliber handgun user against each other with the pistols to their heads. Whoever gets to pull the trigger first wins. And still, such results do not reflect on each handgun's respective scope of power. At all.

Originally posted by Mindset
UN highest feat was more impressive than anything the IG has ever done, let alone an incomplete IG.

Awwwwwwwwwwww shit, buddy...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0


The simple answer to your question though is between an adept UN user and an adept IG user, it's whoever acts first. It's analogous to pitting a .44 caliber handgun user and a .22 caliber handgun user against each other with the pistols to their heads. Whoever gets to pull the trigger first wins. And still, such results do not reflect on each handgun's respective scope of power. At all.

Mighty fine way of putting things buddy

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're confusing the issue being debated here or you're just straw-manning. The issue is whether you can rightly use Magus stomping Quasar to project some multiversal relevance onto the IG when the IG has no multiversal feats. Your queries have nothing to do with this issue.

The simple answer to your question though is between an adept UN user and an adept IG user, it's whoever acts first. It's analogous to pitting a .44 caliber handgun user and a .22 caliber handgun user against each other with the pistols to their heads. Whoever gets to pull the trigger first wins. And still, such results do not reflect on each handgun's respective scope of power. At all.

Hey my friend good to see you back around these days. I will have to disagree that what I addressed wasn't mentioned. I saw numerous people addressing the events of the confrontation between the IG and the UN. Even some people saying that it was Quasar who was the problem and it would've been different had Reed or Galactus been using it. So, my queries certainly weren't a straw-man fallacy and actually addressed people comments. Furthermore, in my post I did very clearly talk about the IG and state some things that imo make it clear it's beyond one universe and in fact multiversal. So, my friend.. Do you feel that the 615 universe in the Prime universe in Marvel and destroying it and tampering with it cause multiversal effects? Its been stated on panel IIRC that destroying the 616 universe thus in essence destroys all of marvel. What is your stance on the relevance of the 616 Universe and if these on panel narrations are true? Further to that point.. Would you agree that Eternity is Multiversal in power? So, when you beat Eternity which is the embodiment of everything.. that is in essence a multiversal feat. As again that would have repercussion throughout all of Marvel correct? Unless of course you believe in the whole that was a m-body thing which was never stated nor implied in the arc in question. To ask another question... Do you believe merging to universes together, especially one being the prime 616 universe is going be on the scope of just a universal power? Multiverse IIRC was mentioned numerous times in the arcs in question was it not? So, I'm just really unclear on how people are arguing that the IG isn't multiversal.

That being said, I agree that in terms of scale.. the IG hasn't done something along the lines of what the UN did. I completely agree with that statement. The resetting of the Multiverse was a damn impressive feat and the higher of what either did on panel. However, I would say the scope of the IG is greater than the UN. I'm not sure how that is debatable considering the wide variety of things on panel the IG has done compared to the UN. Anyways, the point is.. I did address things that were brought up in the course of various discussions. Whether the IG was multiversal.... and that having Reed controlling the UN would've made a difference when confronted with the scope and scale of the IG. As far as what you believe the argument to be.. I agree with you in terms of the scale of what the UN did compared to the IG. I also agree that the IG beating the Un with their respective users doesn't equate to the IG thus being able to do the UN highest feat. Have a good one buddy.

Should have made this into a poll

Originally posted by Mindset
Well, that would seem to suggest things have changed in my opinion. Or that the UN does become stronger based on the user.

There is one feat the occurred over a decade ago that showed the IG overpowering the UN energies sent by Quasar, or the more recent feat of Reed beating a multiversal entity and resetting the multiverse with the UN. So you believe a multiversal threat is more powerful than a universal threat no matter what their powers are?

The ig can see your actions before they happen. Galactus also opposed the ig. I guess a feat ten years later somehow proves the un can beat the ig despite the ig's capabilities.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's errroneous to suggest that the Eternity that fought Thanos in Infinity Gauntlet was a merged Eternity/Infinity. Infinity War made a point to highlight the revelation that Infinity and Eternity are two sides of the same coin. Nobody cares about whether a UN user can beat an IG user. Because at the highest levels we've seen, it's a "who-shoots-first" scenario. And you have to use the artifact's respectively highest showings otherwise you confuse and conflate the individual user's limitations as being the artifact's limitations.

Older depictions of the UN show the sphere of nullification growing slowly from a pinpoint to a an ever encompassing sphere. When Reed used it to its greatest height seen so far, the sphere of nullification, for all intents and purposes was instant across the entire Multiverse.

Don't obfuscate the true issue being debated. The argument has always been which artifact has a greater scope of power. Not whether User X w/ UN beats User Y w/ IG. The UN has a greater scope of power hands-down. Inarguable. It destroyed and recreated the Marvel Multiverse instantly. Best feat that the IG has is taking over the single 616 Universe. Using Magus' stomping of Quasar to reverse-project some sort of Multiversal relevance onto the IG is absurd. You're confusing the user with the artifact. You're confusing the user with the scope of power involved.

Spectre is multiversal. Just because Black Alice can steal his powers doesn't make Black Alice = multiversal+. Red Skull w/ Cosmic Cube can be universal. Cap w/ his fist punching him doesn't make his fist = universal+. A rocket launcher can wreck a building. Me killing the soldier w/ rocket launcher with a handgun doesn't make my handgun = rocket launcher+.

The whole premise is absurd. No, because the ig always will know the enemies first move because of the input gathered from the gems.
You are raising a stink about the un affecting the mulitverse while the ig can pose a threat to the Lt who is the multiversal judge of all reality. That doesn't mean he can phase the Lt in any said reality but he can pose a threat in the ig's very own reality which is what I have been arguing the entire time.

Ig always shows up the un based on this badboy. Knows it opponents move always beforehand. Highest feats and capabilities, right?

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/The_Infinity_Gauntlet_04-09-2.jpg

Eternity=Infinity anyways so it's ludicrous to assume the ig wouldn't defeat Infinity in combat.

Ig>abstracts as proven in battle.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Talk about ownage Talk about cheerleading.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you believe a multiversal threat is more powerful than a universal threat no matter what their powers are?

The ig can see your actions before they happen. Galactus also opposed the ig. I guess a feat ten years later somehow proves the un can beat the ig despite the ig's capabilities.

That would seem to be the case.

Did Galactus use the UN against the IG, no? OK.

btw the infinity gems r one of a kind right? there aint multiple versions of each gem in each universe

CA > HOTU > IG > UN

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
btw the infinity gems r one of a kind right? there aint multiple versions of each gem in each universe Wrong.

Originally posted by shokosugi
CA > HOTU > IG > UN
THOTI>IG>CA>UN

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
btw the infinity gems r one of a kind right? there aint multiple versions of each gem in each universe
There were other versions of the gems but all of them were way weaker.
At best galaxy level threats.

Originally posted by galactusischere

At best galaxy level threats. Did you just make this up?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Furthermore, in my post I did very clearly talk about the IG and state some things that imo make it clear it's beyond one universe and in fact multiversal.Not really.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So, my friend.. Do you feel that the 615 universe in the Prime universe in Marvel and destroying it and tampering with it cause multiversal effects? Its been stated on panel IIRC that destroying the 616 universe thus in essence destroys all of marvel. What is your stance on the relevance of the 616 Universe and if these on panel narrations are true?No relevance at all. 616 Galactus' death can cause the destruction of the entire Marvel Multiverse. That doesn't imbue 616 Galactus with a level of multiversal power. 616 may be the foundational pillar. But while taking out the single foundational pillar of a house with a sledgehammer might bring a whole house down, it doesn't mean that the sledgehammer has the destructive force of a wrecking ball.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Further to that point.. Would you agree that Eternity is Multiversal in power?Multi-Eternity is multiversal in power. Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
To ask another question... Do you believe merging to universes together, especially one being the prime 616 universe is going be on the scope of just a universal power? Multiverse IIRC was mentioned numerous times in the arcs in question was it not? So, I'm just really unclear on how people are arguing that the IG isn't multiversal.No. Especially when the CCU's created that alternate dimension and the effects of the merger are completely contained within that single 616 universe. To my recollection, the term, "multiverse," and derivations thereof, was not used to describe the IG's power.Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That being said, I agree that in terms of scale.. the IG hasn't done something along the lines of what the UN did. I completely agree with that statement. The resetting of the Multiverse was a damn impressive feat and the higher of what either did on panel. However, I would say the scope of the IG is greater than the UN. I'm not sure how that is debatable considering the wide variety of things on panel the IG has done compared to the UN.However, I also think it's fair to point out that the scope of power demonstrated by variety of the things that the IG has done < the scope of power demonstrated by the few things that the UN has done.

Originally posted by Mindset
Did you just make this up?
Nope.
Impy had one IG(alternative reality)and threatend to destroy an entire galaxy if Galactus didn't help him recreate hes planet. Galaxt was said like it was the most the IG could destroy. And earth heroes were trying to get the IG from impy before Eternity showed up to give him the beating of his lifetime.

Originally posted by galactusischere
CA>THOTI>IG>UN

great.

Aside from that not being the only other IG shown besides the 616 version, I don't see how all it could destroy was a galaxy, even if that's all that was being threatened to destroy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Not really.
No relevance at all. 616 Galactus' death can cause the destruction of the entire Marvel Multiverse. That doesn't imbue 616 Galactus with a level of multiversal power. 616 may be the foundational pillar. But while taking out the single foundational pillar of a house with a sledgehammer might bring a whole house down, it doesn't mean that the sledgehammer has the destructive force of a wrecking ball.
Multi-Eternity is multiversal in power. No. Especially when the CCU's created that alternate dimension and the effects of the merger are completely contained within that single 616 universe. To my recollection, the term, "multiverse," and derivations thereof, was not used to describe the IG's power.However, I also think it's fair to point out that the scope of power demonstrated by variety of the things that the IG has done < the scope of power demonstrated by the few things that the UN has done.

Im going to give you a simple answer..
When the IG EFFORTESLY defeats Eternity(living embodiment of you know what), Death, and a well-fed Galactus along with a bunch of abstracts doesn't that tell you that its ATLEAST greater than one universe?

Originally posted by Mindset
Aside from that not being the only other IG shown besides the 616 version, I don't see how all it could destroy was a galaxy, even if that's all that was being threatened to destroy.
It was stated that that was the best it could do.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, because the ig always will know the enemies first move because of the input gathered from the gems.

You are raising a stink about the un affecting the mulitverse while the ig can pose a threat to the Lt who is the multiversal judge of all reality. That doesn't mean he can phase the Lt in any said reality but he can pose a threat in the ig's very own reality which is what I have been arguing the entire time.

Ig always shows up the un based on this badboy. Knows it opponents move always beforehand. Highest feats and capabilities, right?

Eternity=Infinity anyways so it's ludicrous to assume the ig wouldn't defeat Infinity in combat.

Ig>abstracts as proven in battle.You're still straw-manning and obfuscating the real issue. You're avoiding the simple logic and trying to compare how users wield artifacts rather than the artifacts itself. It's now painfully evident since you can't brinng yourself to address the issue directly: Does Magus stomping Quasar imbue the IG with multiversal relevance when it has no multiversal feats?

Living Tribunal can turn the Infinity Gauntlet "on" or "off." It's no threat to the Living Tribunal. Don't conflate Living Tribunal's statement that his confrontation with Adam Warlock would destroy the 616 Universe would mean that the Living Tribunal himself would be threatened. Absurd attenuation.

Utterly irrelevant when we're talking about which artifiact has the greater scope of power.

Never assumed so. I simply stated that the Infinity has never been defeated by the IG. Which is true and countered your erroneous position that it had. Don't put words into my mouth because you don't like admitting when you've stated a falsity.

Irrelevant.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Galaxt was said like it was the most the IG could destroy.

Originally posted by galactusischere
It was stated that that was the best it could do.

Which is it, was it said like it was the best it could do, or was it actually stated as being the best it could do?

Originally posted by Mindset
Which is it, was it said like it was the best it could do, or was it actually stated as being the best it could do?
It was stated and said in the manner like it would be the most damage it could do.

Just post the scan.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Im going to give you a simple answer..
When the IG EFFORTESLY defeats Eternity(living embodiment of you know what), Death, and a well-fed Galactus along with a bunch of abstracts doesn't that tell you that its ATLEAST greater than one universe? It tells me it has power over that universe. Taking the proposition that having power over one universe and extending it to power over several universes and thus, over the entire multiverse is a complete attenuation that relies on pure wordplay and semantics.

Originally posted by Mindset
Just post the scan.
http://img103.imageshack.us/i/im3jj5.jpg/
here you go