Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

And so it begins.

CC fing dies.

If this was ComicBookResource Forums, Cain would get a solid 8-9/10. But on this board we go by evidence of feats, and since there isnt a single combat catagory where Cain can be proven to be above Reen. She loses. People might argue Pressure points and nerve strikes, w/e, she isnt Elektra and she isnt Daredevil, she isnt causing enough damage with her bare hands to render Logan unconscious. Bat Gadgets maybe give her 2-3/10. But h2h in a dojo, she gets mandled.

Cassandra. She knows tons of nerve strikes and such, plus she can kick through brick walls, hard enough to crush skulls, and inches of bulletproof glass, so it's possible to KO him without having to overcome his healing factor. She has move reading to avoid his attacks, and the skill to take him on. Plus a few bat tricks.

She can't kill him or anything, but she can outfight him akin to how Elektra does.

Call it... 7/10.

Wolverine's good and awesome, but he is not overpowering against top streetlevelers.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
And so it begins.

Originally posted by Deadline
fing



http://1.2.3.9/bmi/jaysays.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/education-clipart-public-domain-279x300.png

Originally posted by Q99
Cassandra. She knows tons of nerve strikes and such so it's possible to KO him without having to overcome his healing factor. She has move reading to avoid his attacks, and the skill to take him on. Plus a few bat tricks.

She can't kill him or anything, but she can outfight him akin to how Elektra does.

Call it... 7/10.

Wolverine's good and awesome, but he is not overpowering against top streetlevelers.

Thing is, they have a standard knowledge of each other (at least i think thats forum rules, standard gear, standard knowledge, neutral setting) And he has had PLENTY of bouts against the top body readers/telepath martial artists in Marvel. She may get him the first bout, but the 9 after that? He knows whats coming and he knows the counter, he has more training and experience than her, and if Deathstroke was able to tag her, where was her body reading then?

and as for outfighting her akin to Elektra..lol, one day she might be on elektras level. Name one catagory where she trumps elektra...

Originally posted by Juk3n
Thing is, they have a standard knowledge of each other (at least i think thats forum rules, standard gear, standard knowledge, neutral setting) And he has had PLENTY of bouts against the top body readers/telepath martial artists in Marvel.

Except she's not just a body reader in the sense of a telepath. That is to say, she body reads, but she also has simply very high skill, doing something to make yourself hard to read isn't a win against her. She is the most skilled HtH fighter in modern DC.



She knows a lot more than one style (to be precise, she knows at least 127 from Batman, she knows Shiva's style, all the styles Cain taught her, the styles of everyone she's ever fought... a good way to describe her is having an understanding of martial arts that gives her intuitive understanding of any styles upon seeing it, and she incorporates all of them intuitively with her "I can't believe it's not superhuman" physical abilities ). If Shiva or Batman don't see through her style, I don't think Wolverine will. And of course, on learning each other's styles, the reverse also applies, she'll know his style, and she still sees each move before it's deployed.

As for Deathstroke, in the first fight he didn't tag her once, nor did he cause any injury in the second, and in the third he comments she's nigh-impossible to hit unless you get in her head psychologically.

Godverine is more popular therefore going by average forum dabating skills anyone with less of a franchise than spiderman superman batman or hulk is fair game..

lol @ Q99, I'd probably give it to Wolverine just because of his obvious advantage, without it I'd be more inclined to think different.

Cass gives a good fight but will not beat him.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
lol @ Q99, I'd probably give it to Wolverine just because of his obvious advantage, without it I'd be more inclined to think different.

reported for spamming

As skilled as Cassandra is, in a forum fight, she's not beating Wolverine.

Cassandra will have to focus and keep landing fatal blows and nerve strikes to counter Wolvie's insane HF.
On the other hand, it only takes one clean swipe to render Cassandra completely incapacitated.

Maybe if she's backed up by her parents, it is possible they would KO Wolverine.

One thing's for sure though, she's definitely not going to win this match alone.

Right off the bat I have to say Wolverine.

Wolverine 9/10

1/10 to Cass if she uses nerves gas, or something like this, but otherwise, she's in for a beating.

He's faster, much much stronger, he can tank everything she throws at him, he's probably not far in skills, or maybe even above her. Hell, she can't hide, and she can't run.

Wolverine 7-8/10

Wolverine 8/10

Cass is going to have to work over time just to get jer two wins and use nothing but death nerve blows to slow down and try to overload his HF to even come close to ko'ing with her bare hands.

Eh, I think his performance against martial artists is exaggerated around here. Though I understand my views are in the minority so I won't argue too hard.

I think Cass has better speed feats (the 'bullet dance'), the meta scientists pegged her as peak human (Mentioning how all of her movements are only barely within the limits of human capacity and it should be mentally impossible to move lik she moves) and she's one-shotted some pretty tough foes (like a Man-Bat).

and you think that cap or logan are incapable of ko'ing man bat? or that such a punch would ko him?


i also believe logan has more impressive and longer MA history and storylines then cass.

but thats just me. i know my views are not or may not be supported by comic feats or history

Originally posted by Q99
Eh, I think his performance against martial artists is exaggerated around here. Though I understand my views are in the minority so I won't argue too hard.

I think Cass has better speed feats (the 'bullet dance'), the meta scientists pegged her as peak human (Mentioning how all of her movements are only barely within the limits of human capacity and it should be mentally impossible to move lik she moves) and she's one-shotted some pretty tough foes (like a Man-Bat).

wolverines speed is clearly unquestionably in the SUPER catagory let'alone'*lol* "peak" Professor X and i think it was Hank measured his speed/reaction time.

If it was a h2h fight with no hf and no claws id still give Wolverine the majority, in this scenario its a stomp.

I wouldn't without a HF and claws. CC is absolutely insane. I think calling her a normal human is crazy. She does feats that are above that of a normal human in comics.

Wolverine ftw. He has too many advantages over CC.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
I wouldn't without a HF and claws. CC is absolutely insane. I think calling her a normal human is crazy. She does feats that are above that of a normal human in comics.

She absolutely isn't a normal human. Precog and copy-ability, in effect two mental powers. Her body chemistry's out of whack, her brain works weird, she does stuff that isn't mentally possible for humans.

Not even just speed, but strength too.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Q99/metagene1.jpg




I know. I think Cass is *even faster*.

As fast as Wolverine is, I don't think he can do this, which has all four shots in the air before she starts.

Originally posted by Q99
She absolutely isn't a normal human. Precog and copy-ability, in effect two mental powers. Her body chemistry's out of whack, her brain works weird, she does stuff that isn't mentally possible for humans.

Not even just speed, but strength too.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Q99/metagene1.jpg




I know. I think Cass is *even faster*.

As fast as Wolverine is, I don't think he can do this, which has all four shots in the air before she starts.

Damn that was nice. It caught me off guard.

Nice speed feat. That feat alone puts her in the Super human list.

Originally posted by Q99
She absolutely isn't a normal human. Precog and copy-ability, in effect two mental powers. Her body chemistry's out of whack, her brain works weird, she does stuff that isn't mentally possible for humans.

Not even just speed, but strength too.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Q99/metagene1.jpg




I know. I think Cass is *even faster*.

As fast as Wolverine is, I don't think he can do this, which has all four shots in the air before she starts. wolverine wouldnt need to dodge a bullet and he knows that he will last longer and out fight her

Originally posted by Q99
She absolutely isn't a normal human. Precog and copy-ability, in effect two mental powers. Her body chemistry's out of whack, her brain works weird, she does stuff that isn't mentally possible for humans.

Not even just speed, but strength too.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Q99/metagene1.jpg




I know. I think Cass is *even faster*.

As fast as Wolverine is, I don't think he can do this, which has all four shots in the air before she starts.

he doesnt have to he has dodged automatic gunfire in a direct charge.... granted he hasnt had the best artist at the time focus on the individual bullets and angle of fire but his 80 art work was as good as it could be at the time to display his speed/dodging and overall badass aura....



i think that people get confused with splash art and modern artist and think that past art does not display the same point that is made in more recent art....

for example Ms. Marvel vs Ms. Marvel art looks cool as hell but some ppl think both combatants are high end metas with 80 to 100 ton strength because they survive a plane impact and engine .... when the sad truth is that the durability is the same but the way to show it has bn changed from earlier storylines from being pounded by a base level hulk or building explosion ect ect....

inconclusion ppl see what they want to see rather then what is bullet dodging no different when it someone like DD is multi bullet batting. or shang chi.... dont confuse cool detailed art with an ability or upgrade... it is still the same person who can bullet dodge just like the rest

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

inconclusion ppl see what they want to see rather then what is bullet dodging no different when it someone like DD is multi bullet batting. or shang chi.... dont confuse cool detailed art with an ability or upgrade... it is still the same person who can bullet dodge just like the rest

Note she dodged four shots, going into the path of each on purpose for the fun of it and doesn't even move forward until they've all hit. That's still pretty impressive even among bullet dodgers.

And don't confuse good art with not having speed that's pretty insane even for heroes, just look at the scientist's rundown.

Originally posted by Q99
Note she dodged four shots, going into the path of each on purpose for the fun of it and doesn't even move forward until they've all hit. That's still pretty impressive even among bullet dodgers.

And don't confuse good art with not having speed that's pretty insane even for heroes, just look at the scientist's rundown.

check... Cass is a bullet dodger with bullet speed probably can take on speed demon and quicksilver at mach 1. around the same speed of a bullet from handgun...

she cracks the sound barrier whenever she makes course correction.. the bang u are hearing is not the bullet but her moving and bullet dancing.


all this while staying within DC company stats of the character and comic narration of her being human....


i guess it should be expected especially when the U she comes from has KK..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

all this while staying within DC company stats of the character and comic narration of her being human....

The narration just point out that she's *not* in normal human limits She's got weird body chemistry and a weird brain, she's doing stuff they thought was impossible, they thought that she was a cyborg or whatever.




Yea, pretty much.

DC and Marvel have superhuman martial artists, this isn't news of course. Both sides in this fight has their advantages. Logan's tougher, got his claws, and so on. Cass is faster, a smaller target, has her move reading and style copying, bat gadgets, and so on. Whoever wins it'll be a hard fight without a doubt.

Originally posted by Q99
She absolutely isn't a normal human. Precog and copy-ability, in effect two mental powers. Her body chemistry's out of whack, her brain works weird, she does stuff that isn't mentally possible for humans.

Not even just speed, but strength too.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Q99/metagene1.jpg




I know. I think Cass is *even faster*.

As fast as Wolverine is, I don't think he can do this, which has all four shots in the air before she starts.
If you're basing her stats of those scans, tbh they don't really support your point. In the story with that scientist I'm pretty sire it was is specifically stated that her stats weren't superhuman except for her agorate speed.

Originally posted by Q99
Note she dodged four shots, going into the path of each on purpose for the fun of it and doesn't even move forward until they've all hit. That's still pretty impressive even among bullet dodgers.

And don't confuse good art with not having speed that's pretty insane even for heroes, just look at the scientist's rundown.

all that matters is, her speed is negated by his. No one has the clear advantage in that area, that leaves other catagories. Strength, Skill durability and damage output. We all know dodging bullets doesn't really mean jackpoop in a fight, spider-man HAS precog, he gets hit all the time my fists and kicks. Lets assume Reen and Cass will both land blows, id take his doing more damage than hers.

how is she faster? logan has hyper reflexes and superhuman speed stated in various narration in his comics...


how can she possibly be faster as a peak DC human? hell, Cap isnt even Peak but boarder Superhuman and he isnt any faster then logan in reflexive combat speed and the bastard seees bullets, bullets!! he races bullets!!! did i mention he out throws bullets with his shield after they had a head start!!!

and in marvel guys use Chi to get passed the peak and bullet dodging speed

Originally posted by darthgoober
If you're basing her stats of those scans, tbh they don't really support your point. In the story with that scientist I'm pretty sire it was is specifically stated that her stats weren't superhuman except for her agorate speed.

They did say that what she was doing should be impossible, that she was basically hitting the human limit in each move, that she had to have been enhanced to do it.

And in actual *feats* she's still faster (let's face it, comic understanding of humans limits is shaky at best. Real martial arts couldn't hope to fight like Huntress or Hawkeye, let alone the ones described as peak).

Originally posted by Q99
They did say that what she was doing should be impossible, that she was basically hitting the human limit in each move, that she had to have been enhanced to do it.

And in actual *feats* she's still faster (let's face it, comic understanding of humans limits is shaky at best. Real martial arts couldn't hope to fight like Huntress or Hawkeye, let alone the ones described as peak).
I know they said it should have been impossible, but I'm pretty sure they attributed the impossibility to a regular human's lower agorate speed.

Very possible, I'm not saying that she doesn't have feats. I'm just saying that those particular scans don't prove her to have superhuman stats outside of agorate speed.

Cassandra is a legit bullet-dodger, one of the best even.

But she's no Flash. And she's no Batman.

She can only go so far, until Wolverine's HF get the better of her.

In the first few minutes (hours?), Cassandra will get the upperhand. But eventually she will tire out.
Wolverine will go berserk, and a swipe from those huge claws will end the fight pretty quickly.

Except Spider-man has the precog but not the level of hand to hand skills, so that's a different matter. When he's serious, he's able to avoid Logan pretty well in their fights too.

Top level martial artists have avoided being stabbed by him without precog. She's a top-level martial artist with effective precog.


Logan's own speed can just about counter her speed or reading. But she has both.


If they both throw punches at the same speed, she knows Logan's will be thrown a split second before he notices Cass's has been thrown, and have a split second edge to hit first.




She has higher speed feats.

Superhuman aggregate speed, peak (and 'peak' is a pretty nebulous term. There are superhuman fighters below Capt) pretty much everything else, a lot smaller.



Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon

She can only go so far, until Wolverine's HF get the better of her.

In the first few minutes (hours?), Cassandra will get the upperhand. But eventually she will tire out.
Wolverine will go berserk, and a swipe from those huge claws will end the fight pretty quickly.

Personally I think she'll get a good nerve hit or similar that'll give her an opening to KO him temporarily before that point a good amount of the time, but when she loses, it'll be like that.

It's not like she has to kill him or anything, just score a 'win', right? Because the former's a whole lot harder.

Originally posted by Q99
Personally I think she'll get a good nerve hit or similar that'll give her an opening to KO him temporarily before that point a good amount of the time, but when she loses, it'll be like that.

It's not like she has to kill him or anything, just score a 'win', right? Because the former's a whole lot harder.
Well, you have a point there.

She does actually 'win' initially, imo.

Originally posted by carver9
Damn that was nice. It caught me off guard.

Nice speed feat. That feat alone puts her in the Super human list.

You need to look at the other scan for more clarity.

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/5287/batgirl14pg048nw.jpg


Everything else human. Its just her aggregate speed is special.

As for the bullet feat lots of A-list characters have flashy bullet scenes its almost non relevent.

His healing would make nerve strikes hard to put him down for any significant amount of time.

also logan has bn able to hold his ground without losing ground against lazear, shigen and the woman thet revived him and stole a portion of his soul...


logan was able to not even focus on them and allow his muscle reflex to hold them off while he thought about the overall battle... that is 3 high end Ma'ers being held off by logan without being hit or dodging and jumping around...


i doubt cassie could win a fist fight against logan when it comes to just pure hand speed.

Wolverine owned many times in the past Spider-Man, who is superhuman fast, with reflex above pretty much everyone in comics who don't travel at sound speed. And who is 10 tons, at least.

He tanks punches from Hulk, who is probably one of the strongest being.


As for the speed, you think "dodging them" is impressive? Think again!

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7895/rocketpowereddartblockhm5.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3648/autododgedw2.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8318/autododge2ux7.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8499/xmenv2133p03gm1.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6867/bulletsidestepkq1.jpg

And, as for the skills...

Here him humiliating Shang Chi
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/284/shangchi2af8.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2512/shangchi3eu5.jpg

Wolverine. Not even sure how someone could say batgirl, but to each there own I guess.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If you're basing her stats of those scans, tbh they don't really support your point. In the story with that scientist I'm pretty sire it was is specifically stated that her stats weren't superhuman except for her agorate speed.
even if they were super human it says there only 4.6 I blieve which means 4.6 times faster then a normal human which is still well below the speeds needed to dodge a bullet. text>>art. I dont believe she dodge the bulelts after there fired, believe she moving as there fired, but thats just me.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Wolverine. Not even sure how someone could say batgirl, but to each there own I guess. she faster and more skilled. but you're right, logan still wins.

Originally posted by Starscream M
she faster and more skilled. but you're right, logan still wins.
but she not faster at all nor is she more skilled, but thanks for being wrong.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
but she not faster at all nor is she more skilled, but thanks for being wrong. shes more skilled than batman. she's def more skilled than logan.

and she is faster than wolverine.

I bet you never even read any of her comics.

Originally posted by Starscream M
she faster and more skilled. but you're right, logan still wins.

her attributes are all within the physical human limit but she has them at their max lvl.. sooooo... no she is not faster then logan arguable on skill.

Originally posted by Starscream M
shes more skilled than batman. she's def more skilled than logan.

and she is faster than wolverine.

I bet you never even read any of her comics.
No she not. She has ability to read moves, but she not more skilled. No she not more skilled then wolverine and keep repeating it won't make it so son

no she not at all, please I would love to her how you came to the conclusion a state human is superior to a known meta human in speed?


Oh I have and I bet you have never even read a comic.

Originally posted by Starscream M
shes more skilled than batman. she's def more skilled than logan.

and she is faster than wolverine.

I bet you never even read any of her comics.

why? do you do this to urself? i mean us?




seriously? i bet most of us have kept up with her from her initial appearance at least... nothing to suggest she is anything but human unless you cant separate PIS from her actual skills and abilities...

do you think she can actually injure connor? or out react wonderwoman or supergirl when they are not taken by surprise and have their guard down?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No she not. She has ability to read moves, but she not more skilled. No she not more skilled then wolverine and keep repeating it won't make it so son

no she not at all, please I would love to her how you came to the conclusion a state human is superior to a known meta human in speed?


Oh I have and I bet you have never even read a comic.

1. I'm not your son

2. I have read many comics. You lose the bet. Now pay up.

3. If she could read moves and react, that means she is far faster than peak human.

Originally posted by Starscream M
1. I'm not your son

2. I have read many comics. You lose the bet. Now pay up.

3. If she could read moves and react, that means she is far faster than peak human.

her own comic where she was analyzed specifically pointed out that she was not superhuman in her skills nor application of her physical responses it just appears that way because they havent seen such a balance person...


it's no different from a olympic runner, body builder.. ect ect... it is just that she was wrapped all in one package hence still human within human abilities

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
her own comic where she was analyzed specifically pointed out that she was not superhuman in her skills nor application of her physical responses it just appears that way because they havent seen such a balance person...


it's no different from a olympic runner, body builder.. ect ect... it is just that she was wrapped all in one package hence still human within human abilities she's not superhuman...but her feats are beyond peak human imo

Originally posted by Starscream M
1. I'm not your son

2. I have read many comics. You lose the bet. Now pay up.

3. If she could read moves and react, that means she is far faster than peak human.
know your just ignorant like an untaught child.


and yet you never been able to prove it or show any signs of comic knowledge dispite what you have ehard on wiki or forums.



Not at all DS for one she has stated is faster then her. She also stated she has problems reading his movement that it sings to fast. also your statement is stupid. How does beign able to read a person body language which allows her to know what move they will make, then reacting to that move make her far faster then a peak human? does not even make sense.

her comic writers would say no to you and so does an on panel explanation of scientist...
also keep in mind if she is so superhuman why is bats able to exchange and match her various fights? is he also superhuman?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
her comic writers would say no do you and so does an on panel explanation of scientist...
also keep in mind if she is so superhuman why is bats able to exchange and match her various fights? is he also superhuman? batman is batman duh.

what about nightwing and (tim)robin?

Anyways, Wolverine for the large majority. He has to much high level damage out put as well as to much high level damage soak.

a direct punch from him could crush or pulverize her skull at the very least fracture it .... a kick from logan could decapitate her as well... hell, she could fracture shatter her hand if she hits adamantium....

He also has a hgue reach advantage via claws and they can easily cut her in haft.

lets not forget that logan pulls his punches when fighting humans and certain meta's so as not to kill or injure...


example:

when he casually elbowed nightcrawler and knocked the wind out of him... NC though he hit him with his full strength and logan responded he could have killed him if he actually elbowed him if he werent actually playing with him or some such...

so an elbow or knee head butt without PIS and best of his ability should break bones, like ribs easy

Batgirl is more skilled, without a doubt but Logan is still a beast and not that far behind IMO. I think Wolverine wins 7/10.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Batgirl is more skilled, without a doubt but Logan is still a beast and not that far behind IMO. I think Wolverine wins 7/10.
No she not. Hell with out her body language ability Batman did not even want her patrolling.


Logan is a top tier fighter who has proven him self against number of 2nd tier and top tier fighters over the years.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No she not. Hell with out her body language ability Batman did not even want her patrolling.


Logan is a top tier fighter who has proven him self against number of 2nd tier and top tier fighters over the years.

Yes she is. Wolverine is good but she is a little bit better. What's the prob with that?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Yes she is. Wolverine is good but she is a little bit better. What's the prob with that?
Because it not true. Prove it. Saying it does not make it so. Hell Wolverine face off against and done better against more top tier fighters then she has. He also has vastly more training and experience.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Because it not true. Prove it. Hell Wolverine face off against and done better against more top tier fighters then she has. He also has vastly more training and experience.

You surely think that Logan is also more or at least as skilled as Karate Kid?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You surely think that Logan is also more or at least as skilled as Karate Kid?
No but neither is Batgirl Karate kid would utterly rape her. what does Karate kid have to do with Batgirl? nothing but thanks for the redd herring. how about you stay on topic?

Find this funny that you tried to equate me saying batgirl is not more skilled then Wolverine based on the fact there really no evidence to support this, to me saying he as skilled or more skilled then karate kid, is just rediculous.

so what now batgirl is=>karate kid, is that what your saying?

yes. exactly was is being said.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
yes. exactly was i being said.
you know I was talking to bat-prime right?

I think me and capt can take this to the battlezone.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I think me and capt can take this to the battlezone.

Can I judge that, darling? That looks interesting to see..

You wanna take me with Wolverine, you with Batgirl to the battlezone?

Yes.

I think Cassandra Cain gets sold short, or overestimated. It should get interesting. It might have to wait until the next round of the tourney though, where me and KM will be either knocked out or have some extra time.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yes.

I think Cassandra Cain gets sold short, or overestimated. It should get interesting. It might have to wait until the next round of the tourney though, where me and KM will be either knocked out or have some extra time.
I need a while anyways I am in middle of classes, and I need to get my comics out of storage and uses the libary scanner.

No rush.

This' supposed to be fun. We'll work out a date later.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
No rush.

This' supposed to be fun. We'll work out a date later.

yea they normally are fun, though the last one I did was before the battlezone was even created.


k sounds good.

I am kinda surprized this threads never been made before.


Batgirl I gotta say is one of the most badass female characters right up there with Elektra who I thinks the all time most bad ass.

I change my mind: I give Wolverine 10/10, if he's using is full abilities.

I don't see how Cass could come up winning against a faster, more skilled, much more stronger and infinitely more tougher. And with a crazy ass healing factor.

Originally posted by Q99
They did say that what she was doing should be impossible, that she was basically hitting the human limit in each move, that she had to have been enhanced to do it.

And in actual *feats* she's still faster (let's face it, comic understanding of humans limits is shaky at best. Real martial arts couldn't hope to fight like Huntress or Hawkeye, let alone the ones described as peak).

It wasn't that she was enhanced IIRC. Didn't they (whomever they were) say what she was doing in the fight was all what a human could do but what was imossible was that she was doing it at the same time. Really this just means they haven't studied the likes of Batgirl, Batman, Robin before.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I change my mind: I give Wolverine 10/10, if he's using is full abilities.

I don't see how Cass could come up winning against a faster, more skilled, much more stronger and infinitely more tougher. And with a crazy ass healing factor.
Then you need to open your eyes.

How does strength or skill factor in when she can instinctively counter his every move. It's just plain idiocy to claim that his claws would do a lot of damage when what you should actually be focusing on, is making a case for how the hell he would ever touch her

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Then you need to open your eyes.

How does strength or skill factor in when she can instinctively counter his every move. It's just plain idiocy to claim that his claws would do a lot of damage when what you should actually be focusing on, is making a case for how the hell he would ever touch her

So she untouchable? Dident she stated that she has problems even reading true superhumans movements such as DS becuase there song (how she frazes it) moves to faster and to loud. Also in not instinctive, she simply reads her opponents body language. DD has the similar ability, but Wolverine had no problem tagging him. Spiderman has true pre cog and superhuman stats and Wolverines taggs him. He also tag numerous telepaths and even fought an assassin who was trained to kill him who had suit that amp her stats 10 times there normal levels and negated his senses to a point and still he tagged and defeated her, and she was a telepath. Find it very hard believe some one who not even a true superhuman as stated on pannel is going to be remained untouched by Wolverine

Couple of things.

- DD's abilities are far different.
- Spider-man's precog is completely different. You're comparing an alarm bell to being able to see what people are about to do, 's stupid.
- Wow, assassins/no relevance.
- Wow, telepathy/no relevance.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Couple of things.

- DD's abilities are far different.
- Spider-man's precog is completely different. You're comparing an alarm bell to being able to see what people are about to do, 's stupid.
- Wow, assassins/no relevance.
- Wow, telepathy/no relevance.
DD ability tells him what attack is coming. It very similar actaully except he can due it from 360 digree angle when she relies on sight.

Actaully Spidersense tells him the type of attack it even stated in his explantion on pannel and it dirrectly linked to his reflexes.

Actaully they are quite relevent. Telepath know what move ones going to make before they do. It superior form of body reading. Assassin is quite relevent. She was a telepath who had a suit which negated his senses and amp her stats 10 fold and she was train specifically to take him out for all the god it did her/

Originally posted by The Pict
It wasn't that she was enhanced IIRC. Didn't they (whomever they were) say what she was doing in the fight was all what a human could do but what was imossible was that she was doing it at the same time. Really this just means they haven't studied the likes of Batgirl, Batman, Robin before.


These were groups of scientists who study metahumans, and she's pretty physically impressive even for the crew she runs with (especially in speed). And both her body chemistry and brain are off- she does have a deathstroke-esque 'use more of her brain for the task than normal' thing going on.




Batgirl beats Shiva (who has fought pretty much everyone), draws against Deathstroke, has an edge against Batman, beats Black Canary, beats David Cain, beats Ravager, Bronze Tiger acknowledges her as a superior fighter.

I mean, she is pretty much acknowledged as the best in DC and has beaten and even killed one of the best top tier fighters. Her experience is being trained in a bunker by a top-tier from birth then fighting and learning from almost every top-tier of note in DC (and note with her intuitive abilities, that means she has the style of pretty much every top-tier of note in DC).




Yes, it makes it harder, though it's still doable (I think it had to do with his 90% brain thing too). And yet, she still avoided pretty much everything he threw. Remember, the language reading is a bonus on top of top-tier level skill, she can still predict someone the way that Taskmaster or other top-tier fighters do too.

Originally posted by Q99
These were groups of scientists who study metahumans, and she's pretty physically impressive even for the crew she runs with (especially in speed). And both her body chemistry and brain are off- she does have a deathstroke-esque 'use more of her brain for the task than normal' thing going on.

Yes she was impressive for a human, but as stated she only had normal human stats, however she could due number of things at human max.

Never said she was not impressive



Originally posted by Q99
Batgirl beats Shiva (who has fought pretty much everyone), draws against Deathstroke, has an edge against Batman, beats Black Canary, beats David Cain, beats Ravager, Bronze Tiger acknowledges her as a superior fighter.

Yea and Wolverine beaten DD, shang-chi, given capt ablot clot, taken it too stick, ogun ect.


Originally posted by Q99
I mean, she is pretty much acknowledged as the best in DC and has beaten and even killed one of the best top tier fighters. Her experience is being trained in a bunker by a top-tier from birth then fighting and learning from almost every top-tier of note in DC (and note with her intuitive abilities, that means she has the style of pretty much every top-tier of note in DC).
Wolverine has beaten Top tiers as well. Also what top tier did batgirl kill?

Wolverien trained for 100 plus years and has trained with the top of the top. Even uber tier guys like Ogun.

no it does not mean she has the style of every perosn in DC unless she displayed being able to mimic them it nothing more then wishful thinking, even mimicing so one does not mean you can uses there style like they can.

Originally posted by Q99



Yes, it makes it harder, though it's still doable (I think it had to do with his 90% brain thing too).
His brain would have nothing to do with it and normal humans uses 100% of there brain. It be his movements and speed which she stated.


Originally posted by Q99


And yet, she still avoided pretty much everything he threw. Remember, the language reading is a bonus on top of top-tier level skill, she can still predict someone the way that Taskmaster or other top-tier fighters do too.
She also stated that he holds back against her and toys with her.


DD can do that, wolverine show the ability two, elektra can, stick, ogun, echo ect.


Nothing new to Wolverine.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
DD ability tells him what attack is coming. It very similar actaully except he can due it from 360 digree angle when she relies on sight.

Actaully Spidersense tells him the type of attack it even stated in his explantion on pannel and it dirrectly linked to his reflexes.

Actaully they are quite relevent. Telepath know what move ones going to make before they do. It superior form of body reading. Assassin is quite relevent. She was a telepath who had a suit which negated his senses and amp her stats 10 fold and she was train specifically to take him out for all the god it did her/

- Yes, a sonar. Not the same as being able to predict attacks. Seeing an attack is not pre-dicting it. This is really, really basic stuff.

- It does not always tell him what type of attack it is. The spider-sense has gone off a million times without him knowing what kind of attack is going. Actually, this seems to be pretty much a lie, as it goes against years and years of spidey comics. It's an alarm telling him that there's danger about. Close, but not the same.

- I'm having a hard time understanding your english here, but I'll give it a whirl. Telepaths can not know what someone is about to do before they do it, only if a person spends a long time planning their moves. Experienced fighters do not do this. If you're referring to the Mr.X incident then Wolverine was destroyed.

- Still of absolutely no relevance. She can't predict Wolverine's moves and is of no relevance to Cassandra Cain's case.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- Yes, a sonar. Not the same as being able to predict attacks. Seeing an attack is not pre-dicting it. This is really, really basic stuff.


actaully it does it been stated many times on pannel that he senses the tensing of muscles and the attack before they happen, which one of the reasons he easily taken out capt before.



- Originally posted by Kris Blaze
-It does not always tell him what type of attack it is. The spider-sense has gone off a million times without him knowing what kind of attack is going. Actually, this seems to be pretty much a lie, as it goes against years and years of spidey comics. It's an alarm telling him that there's danger about. Close, but not the same.
It also told him the type of attack numerous times. The explanation of his power is that it tells him what attack is coming and even the level of danger. I can go find the scan if you really want it.


- Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm having a hard time understanding your english here, but I'll give it a whirl. Telepaths can not know what someone is about to do before they do it, only if a person spends a long time planning their moves. Experienced fighters do not do this. If you're referring to the Mr.X incident then Wolverine was destroyed.
Nor does her power. SHe reads there body langauge to figure out what attack there going to launch. Telepathy is even superior because it reads the person mind and tells them what attack si coming before the person even goes to make the attack. Most fight plann there attack several steps a head.

I was not talking about mister X/ Wolverien beat x twice and X only took Wolverine down after he fought an army of guys and three world class assassins and was far form 100 Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Still of absolutely no relevance. She can't predict Wolverine's moves and is of no relevance to Cassandra Cain's case.
actaully she can predict his moves she straight up stated it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully it does it been stated many times on pannel that he senses the tensing of muscles and the attack before they happen, which one of the reasons he easily taken out capt before.
Wow, this is definitely the same as reading body language. The argument got a little bit closer, but still misses the target by a mile.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
It also told him the type of attack numerous times. The explanation of his power is that it tells him what attack is coming and even the level of danger. I can go find the scan if you really want it.
Doesn't matter, the one scan can't make up for million of other incidents where the spider-sense has gone off without him knowing what happens. I'll bring up an incident that you are most definitely familiar with. When Spidey killed Wolverine's woman in their little team-up. What level of danger did it tell Spidey that was? Mortal?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Nor does her power. SHe reads there body langauge to figure out what attack there going to launch. Telepathy is even superior because it reads the person mind and tells them what attack si coming before the person even goes to make the attack. Most fight plann there attack several steps a head.
You do not understand what telepathy is or how it functions in battle.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I was not talking about mister X/ Wolverien beat x twice and X only took Wolverine down after he fought an army of guys and three world class assassins and was far form 100
He did not beat him twice. They've both got a win and an unfinished one. I've also explained this to you before, though you seem to suffer from short term memory loss, being an idiot and whatnot. But Wolverine did not take much damage from his prior fights. The platoon that he took out only got in a couple of licks at best and the damage dealt by the "world class assassins" was a couple of cuts and kicks. Something the man who heals from a skeleton would recover from in under a minute. No consistency here really. You claim that he can take anything, but we are supposed to be impressed by him surviving some kicks and punches? No. There's also the unfortunate method with which they explained Mr.X's powers.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully she can predict his moves she straight up stated it.
But she clearly could not. If she could predict his moves, she would not get hit.

I responsed later because I gotta sleep, but do you gotta be such an ass hole all the time? could you try not being so insulting 24/7?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I responsed later because I gotta sleep, but do you gotta be such an ass hole all the time? could you try not being so insulting 24/7?
I'll see about it, if you stop testing my patience. Try to improve your argumentative skills a bit. Half your posts usually have nothing to do with what is being discussed.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
His brain would have nothing to do with it and normal humans uses 100% of there brain. It be his movements and speed which she stated.

I know they do in real life, but in comics he has a super-brain that works better.




And she disarmed him and had a sword to his face in that one. The first fight was not toying, no hits, and the third fight, again a draw.




Well, yea, but those people are a close match even with that. Echo's a close fight for Logan, when they fought it was hard. Echo + move reading + 'mentally impossible' aggregate speed = doing better than Echo. And Cass, quite frankly, has a better collection of styles she's copied too.

Of course it's nothing new to Logan, it's still martial arts related powers. I'm not saying she'll blow over him or anything. I'm saying in fighting, she's at a slightly higher level due to these abilities. It's not the novelty of these abilities that are helpful, it's the fighting level they put her at. If you take top-tier fighting and add a power or two, then it's better than top-tier fighting alone.

You've pointed out that Logan can beat each component of Cass individually. Which, yea, is true, and if Cassandra had only top-tier fighting, only move-reading, or only style-copying/reading, she'd be at a disadvantage. But that doesn't mean the combination of all three doesn't have an edge against him, and those people who are closest to this combination, like say Elektra (who has top tier fighting + mental powers/chi), tend to do really well against him.


Pointing out how Logan does against people who just have a prediction ability, but otherwise doesn't hold a candle to top-tiers in fighting skill, is not the same as showing how he'd do against Cass.

lmfao, do you two actually believe that normal humans use 100% of their brain? the fact that humans only use a very small percentage is not a myth spawned by comics

It's about 10% or something in that area. Not very high at all.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
lmfao, do you two actually believe that normal humans use 100% of their brain? the fact that humans only use a very small percentage is not a myth spawned by comics


Well, we do and we don't. There's no part which isn't used regularly, and of course when we're not talking we're not using the speech center and similar. We use only some of it at a time, except in one specific case: A seizure, where everything activates and nothing functions.

Not using a part of the brain is akin to the empty space between cars in a road. Use a road 100% and there's no room to move cars around any more. It's not like comics and such portray in that there's no stuff to 'unlock'. No, we're using it pretty optimally, just low enough to prevent 'traffic jams'.


What it means is different than what it sounds like it does, in other words. Through a given day, you'll use near-100% of your brain, but using 100% of your brain at once would actually be bad.

(Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10%25_of_brain_myth )

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I think me and capt can take this to the battlezone. If you suck in it, I'm going to challenge Raoul to a Supes/Thor battlezone, and I'll be representing Thor.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, we do and we don't. There's no part which isn't used regularly, and of course when we're not talking we're not using the speech center and similar. We use only some of it at a time, except in one specific case: A seizure, where everything activates and nothing functions.

Not using a part of the brain is akin to the empty space between cars in a road. Use a road 100% and there's no room to move cars around any more. It's not like comics and such portray in that there's no stuff to 'unlock'. No, we're using it pretty optimally, just low enough to prevent 'traffic jams'.


What it means is different than what it sounds like it does, in other words. Through a given day, you'll use near-100% of your brain, but using 100% of your brain at once would actually be bad.

(Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10%25_of_brain_myth )

the short version is, humans can't actually control the use of 100% of there brain, ie the subconscious, musle memory/ memory type stuff.

this is another case where superior skill cannot compensate for meta-human abilities. wolverine: too fast, too strong, healing factor, lethal claws..........done deal.


logan 10/10

dont forget the arguable superior skills part... since aside from having meta stats he is also a highly skill MA'er comparable to her... add the attributes its a wash.

Logan.