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ROTJ Darth Vader vs NJO Kyle Katarn. Who wins?

Originally posted by ares834
ROTJ Darth Vader vs NJO Kyle Katarn. Who wins? Katarn.

Darth Vader.

Katarn.

Originally posted by Eminence
Darth Vader. I'd put NJO Katarn a fair bit above Luke at this point.

Optimus Prime.

Not a valid SW Character therefore not an allowable victor. Therefore, Katarn wins.

you know what! i'm sick of your persicutions, i know you will just pick this thread to shit, i should have known you'd do this, you'r all SAD LOWLIFES starwars is about imagination, you clearly dont have any, you shouldent use this forum, you should use the be a bastard for no reason and be boring and suck your own cock forum you stupid bastards just lighten up for **** sake, you know what report me i dont care you clearly hate me you ****ing inbreads, i'm just trying to have some fun and talk about ideas and stuff but you know what ? **** YOU, enjoy moaning about all my insecurities and mistakes in this reply, go on enjoy it since you clearly have NOTHING else in your life, guess what, ive just got back from karate and before that gym were my freinds are try getting freinds and stop trying to cyber bully me into submission you wierdos, i just realy do not understand why you are being like this? i mean i like the moderators and there are a few nice people of you out there dont get me wrong but the people who can go stuck their mums cocks up their arse know who they are!!!!!!!

Mattatom

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Mattatom He's just so terrified that someone's gonna find out why he's saying all these terrible, evil and awful mean things, it's his own insecurity!





And Katarn wins.

Katarn

Originally posted by Eminence
Darth Vader.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
you know what! i'm sick of your persicutions, i know you will just pick this thread to shit, i should have known you'd do this, you'r all SAD LOWLIFES starwars is about imagination, you clearly dont have any, you shouldent use this forum, you should use the be a bastard for no reason and be boring and suck your own cock forum you stupid bastards just lighten up for **** sake, you know what report me i dont care you clearly hate me you ****ing inbreads, i'm just trying to have some fun and talk about ideas and stuff but you know what ? **** YOU, enjoy moaning about all my insecurities and mistakes in this reply, go on enjoy it since you clearly have NOTHING else in your life, guess what, ive just got back from karate and before that gym were my freinds are try getting freinds and stop trying to cyber bully me into submission you wierdos, i just realy do not understand why you are being like this? i mean i like the moderators and there are a few nice people of you out there dont get me wrong but the people who can go stuck their mums cocks up their arse know who they are!!!!!!!

See, I just know he was talking to me when he said that.

e h8s loigic

Katarn easily. One of the main reasons galen beat Vader was the lightning ability. Heck thats what shut vader down for good when the emperor shocked him as he was throwing him down the reactor core. Kyle has lighting abilities that easily match Galens. Plus hes considered a swordmaster in the NJO

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
Katarn easily. One of the main reasons galen beat Vader was the lightning ability. Heck thats what shut vader down for good when the emperor shocked him as he was throwing him down the reactor core. Kyle has lighting abilities that easily match Galens. Plus hes considered a swordmaster in the NJO Galen's lightning did not even really seem to phase Vader. The fight lasted a while even after Galen's lightning attack. Vader was attacked for several seconds of high voltage of Palpatine's lightning, and still managed to throw Palpatine down the shaft.

Also: Kyle's lightning does not easily match Galen's.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
Katarn easily. One of the main reasons galen beat Vader was the lightning ability. Heck thats what shut vader down for good when the emperor shocked him as he was throwing him down the reactor core. Kyle has lighting abilities that easily match Galens. Plus hes considered a swordmaster in the NJO
Lol. How is Katarn going to win this "easily". And Sidious's Lightning>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Katarn's.

1. I wasn't compairing katarns lightning to sidious'

2. In the novelization of the force unleashed, the turning point in the battle was when Galen hit Vader with lightning. Vader was winning in the novel up until that point.

3. I was just making a statement that lightning has adverse affects on Vader mainly because he is more machine than man. Its going to hurt him obviously.

That was just a reason as to why Kyle has the upper hand. Lighting does not agree with Vader. Also Kyle is a master swordsman, has a plethora of Force abilities, and would beat ROJ Vader

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
1. I wasn't compairing katarns lightning to sidious' So then... What was the point in bringing him up?

That had nothing to do with Vader's suit. If anything Vader's suit offers him protection. In ATOC Anakin was nearly paralyzed by one blast of lightning from Dooku. Vader can actually take lightning better then most, unless it short circuts his life support. It's not like lightning is an insta-kill to Vader; look how long he survived after Palpatine's attack.

Lightning is going to hurt anyone... obviously. Lightning does not agree with anyone. I don't see Kyle winning this. The only shot he has is in sabers...

This really depends, right in TFU we see vader with massive TK abilities pwning jedi powerful enough to tear a space stations command module apart.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So then... What was the point in bringing him up?

I was making a reference that Sidious' lightning also affected Vader. Read my post, ner vod

That had nothing to do with Vader's suit. If anything Vader's suit offers him protection. In ATOC Anakin was nearly paralyzed by one blast of lightning from Dooku. Vader can actually take lightning better then most, unless it short circuts his life support. It's not like lightning is an insta-kill to Vader; look how long he survived after Palpatine's attack.

Uh To say anakin was almost paralyzed is like saying a mosquito bit almost drained all of my blood. I seem to remember him getting up and going toe to toe with Dooku. And don't give me that crap about his mechanic electronic suit being able to cushon the blast of...lightning?

And you can't argue the fact that the book, which i seriously doubt you have read, shows Vader winning until Vader gets hit with lightning.

Also in another novel, The third book of the coruscant nights series. Jax pavan, who was losing his connection with the force, and prince Xizor were able to fight Vader and leave. A weakened Jedi and a non-force user fight and surviving Vader. Anakin would have killed them no problem. Point is Vader is a weakend version of the former Anakin, and is in no way ready to win this battle.

Lightning is going to hurt anyone... obviously. Lightning does not agree with anyone. I don't see Kyle winning this. The only shot he has is in sabers...

I agree with you there, but its going to hurt a machine more, don't you think. Im not saying its a one shot kill, but its going to help Kyle win.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda

Also in another novel, The third book of the coruscant nights series. Jax pavan, who was losing his connection with the force, and prince Xizor were able to fight Vader and leave. A weakened Jedi and a non-force user fight and surviving Vader. Anakin would have killed them no problem. Point is Vader is a weakend version of the former Anakin, and is in no way ready to win this battle.
No he isn't, Vader in terms of force mastery is superior to his former self. Big deal, some one survived an encounter with vader, OH NO how vader must be weak.

Seeing how vader was able to casually tool powerful force users strong enough to rip a space stations module apart while sending it into critical condition, being able to tank lightning that brought down an ATAT, choking xizor millions of lightyears away nearly killing him if it weren't for sidious and destroying massive pillars is a sheer indicator that vader is a beast in the force and far from the weakling you are trying to portray him to be.


Originally posted by Maester_yoda

I agree with you there, but its going to hurt a machine more, don't you think. Im not saying its a one shot kill, but its going to help Kyle win. How do machines feel pain? And seeing how he was able to shrug off lightning from an overpowered gary stu, i don't see a single blast of lightning from kyle bringing down this beast.

Believe what you want, but TFU ruined star wars and conflicts with canon higher up than the game. Vader is a weaker version of himself.



They don't feel pain, they shut down. ya know break down. kinda like when the jawas hit R2 with an ion blast....yeeeaaah

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
Believe what you want, but TFU ruined star wars and conflicts with canon higher up than the game. Vader is a weaker version of himself.
Lol... What does it conflict with? What higher canon source does it conflict with? And how does it make anything he said any less true?

Originally posted by ares834
Lol... What does it conflict with? What higher canon source does it conflict with? And how does it make anything he said any less true? I guess he means the movies where Vaders best Force feat was throwing his saber.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
Believe what you want, but TFU ruined star wars and conflicts with canon higher up than the game. Vader is a weaker version of himself.
No he isn't. Canon > you hun.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda

They don't feel pain, they shut down. ya know break down. kinda like when the jawas hit R2 with an ion blast....yeeeaaah Yet you mentioned machines felt pain when hit with lightning, way to go contradicting yourself.

Originally posted by mattatom
I guess he means the movies where Vaders best Force feat was throwing his saber. If he truly wants to use that logic then 90% of the characters have yet to do jack in the "highest form of canon".

Originally posted by BoratBorat
If he truly wants to use that logic then 90% of the characters have yet to do jack in the "highest form of canon". Exactly what I was thinking.

TFU should just be seen as what the Force really looks like when people use it.

Then everyone would be happy and we wouldn't have bizarre inconsistencies in levels of ability.

Originally posted by BoratBorat
Yet you mentioned machines felt pain when hit with lightning, way to go contradicting yourself.

I didn't say that......

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
Believe what you want, but TFU ruined star wars and conflicts with canon higher up than the game. Vader is a weaker version of himself. How does it contradict higher form of canon. Vader is a weaker version of what he was suppose to be.



Galen struck Vader with lightning and Vader continued to fight. Palpatine sent torrents and torrents of lightning through Vader's suit, and Vader still kept going and managed to kill Palpatine. When has Vader been shut down after being hit by lightning? Vader took Sidious's lightning better than Yoda did. Tell me one person who took Sidious's lightning the way Vader did.

Death Note

Originally posted by Snow Villiers
Death Note

thanks!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Galen struck Vader with lightning and Vader continued to fight. Palpatine sent torrents and torrents of lightning through Vader's suit, and Vader still kept going and managed to kill Palpatine. When has Vader been shut down after being hit by lightning? Vader took Sidious's lightning better than Yoda did.
exactly
if you include the non-canon ending in the game itself, vader was still up and fighting until the point where marek stabbed him..
and even if we just use the canon ending, consider - vader got lightning-fried, had large steel pipes thrown at him, was saber-pwned, lost his helmet and was smashed into the floor before being force-pummeled through a window into the observation chamber, and even then he survived galen's suicide attack...if anything vader is one of the more durable characters in star wars

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Tell me one person who took Sidious's lightning the way Vader did. does galen's suicide attack count?

edit - just realized how old this thread is

Ace Attorney

miles edgeworth - AA investigations comes out in Australia tomorrow.
cant f*cking wait!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
How does it contradict higher form of canon. Vader is a weaker version of what he was suppose to be.



Galen struck Vader with lightning and Vader continued to fight. Palpatine sent torrents and torrents of lightning through Vader's suit, and Vader still kept going and managed to kill Palpatine. When has Vader been shut down after being hit by lightning? Vader took Sidious's lightning better than Yoda did. Tell me one person who took Sidious's lightning the way Vader did.

Yoda had a much better showing against Sidious's lightning than Vader did. actually managed to repel it back at him, barehanded.

Originally posted by truejedi
Yoda had a much better showing against Sidious's lightning than Vader did. actually managed to repel it back at him, barehanded.

That was due to a technique Yoda knew that Vader did not. When the lightning actually struck Yoda, it blasted him unconscience.

There's some great logic at work here:

Vader is stronger because he let himself get hit by Force Lightning for 8 seconds and survived for about 10 minutes.

Yoda, who was able to block that same attack with his bare hands, is weaker, because he didn't die when he got hit by lightning.



The lightning killed Vader and knocked Yoda unconscious. I think you've proven my point.

yoda got hit by a relatively short blast of lightning compared to vader..that same blast knocked yoda across the room and rendered him unconscious..if yoda was attacked continuously by lightning as vader was, without his technique, can you prove he would survive any longer than vader?

Vader, in a mechanical suit, minus a hand, following a defeat, died later from Palpatine's Lightning---Lightning that, prior to Vader's intervention was being used as a torture device, not an execution device. Ergo: less lethal.


Yoda, the greatest foe the etc etc., fresh from not being in a battle, was blacked out momentarily by Palpatine's Lightning---Palpatine who so readily tried to flee a minute later. Ergo: he had good reason to amp up the voltage.

Yoda, the greatest foe the etc etc., in the heat of battle, pooled and deflected Palpatine's Lightning---Lightning the greatest Sith Lord etc etc. was using to defeat the greatest foe the etc etc. Ergo: he had good reason to try and crispy critter the little green friend.


Ergo: Yoda>>Vader.

conceded.
the point is that vader got hit by galen's lightning, and afterward survived galen's force-suicide. he was beaten but not dead
can katarn do any better?

I don't know much about Katarn. If Advent ever appears again, she can probably list off his feats from her diary--they're listed beside her Katarn Romance story. I'll say though that I think Vader has a higher constitution and resiliency than Katarn. Hell, probably more than most Force-users. His suit and willpower do wonders for him. Three limbs missing and nearly immolated, and the guy's still going.


And Galen's Lightning use on Vader is yet another discrepancy the EU throws at us. I don't know what to make of it.

Originally posted by Hybris
There's some great logic at work here: You're not getting what I'm saying.

Stronger in the force? No.

He took 8 seconds of Palpatines most intense lightning, and still managed to take Palpatine out.

When did I say Yoda was weaker? Yoda spent centuries learning different dark side defense techniques. Without learning how to defend against lightning, Yoda would not have lasted against Palpatine's lightning as long as Vader did.



Yoda was knocked unconscious with one powerful blast. Vader took blast after blast. Big difference.

Vader is able to take physical assault better than most, but that does not make him stronger than everyone.

How do you know it was Sidious's 'most intense' lightning that he used on Vader, because in the movie the lightning didn't seem to change at all.

Originally posted by mattatom
How do you know it was Sidious's 'most intense' lightning that he used on Vader, because in the movie the lightning didn't seem to change at all.
Because I doubt Sidious would want to die and thus would attempt to kill Vader. Not to mention his lightning actually illuminated Vader's skeleton something itt did not do to Luke sggesting I much higher intensity.

Proof Sidious knew Vader was going to kill him?
Not necessarily a higher intensity, a higher voltage would of produced the same effect but unless the current changed it wouldn't of made a difference.

Originally posted by mattatom
Proof Sidious knew Vader was going to kill him?
Not necessarily a higher intensity, a higher voltage would of produced the same effect but unless the current changed it wouldn't of made a difference. You're right. Palpatine probably thought Vader was going to spend circles with him.

I never claimed anything. So how could I be right?

Originally posted by mattatom
I never claimed anything. So how could I be right?

welcome to my life in the video game vs.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda was knocked unconscious with one powerful blast. Vader took blast after blast. Big difference. It's difficult to gauge just how powerful Palpatine's Lightning was at that time. He was clearly torturing Luke, but there's nothing that tells us just how powerful he made it to attack Vader, if he decided anything at all.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
welcome to my life in the video game vs. Annoying thing is I went there before I came here, looked at the quality of the posts and took refuge here.Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's difficult to gauge just how powerful Palpatine's Lightning was at that time. He was clearly torturing Luke, but there's nothing that tells us just how powerful he made it to attack Vader, if he decided anything at all.
Thankyou Lucien!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's difficult to gauge just how powerful Palpatine's Lightning was at that time. He was clearly torturing Luke, but there's nothing that tells us just how powerful he made it to attack Vader, if he decided anything at all. I'll have to get the novel from my brother. I believe it said Palpatine was trying to kill Vader but Vader would not slow down, and the lightning became more and more intense (something like that, but I could be mistaken).

Wookieepedia is pretty reliable, and says the lightning became more intense. But I know we can not use it as a source.

Palpatine killed 50 storntroopers at once with is lighting. He could have killed Luke instantly if he'd wanted.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Palpatine killed 50 storntroopers at once with is lighting. He could have killed Luke instantly if he'd wanted.

i disagree. palps said he was going to kill him

and according to the rotj novel, he was killing luke

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
i disagree. palps said he was going to kill him
So... Sidious was torturing Luke. If he wanted Luke would have been roasted. But like all Sith Lords he loves to gloat and relishes finishishing off his last enemy.

so when he says...."now you die..." means what?

allow me to quote from the novel. page 160 and 166

"Palpatine raised his spidery arms toward Luke:blinding white bolts of energy coruscated from his fingertips, shot across the room like sorcerous lightning, and tore through the young boy's insides, looking for ground....(page 166) Tormented beyond reason, betaken of a weakness that drained his very essence {it was killing him} he hoped of nothing more than to submit to the nothingness toward which he was drifting...'Young fool!' Palpatine rasped at Luke. 'Only now at the end, do you understand. Your puerile skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid a price for you lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will pay the price in full. You will die!' "

I don't know about you but that is clear that the emperor was trying to kill Luke, especially at the end.....

Originally posted by Maester_yoda

I don't know about you but that is clear that the emperor was trying to kill Luke, especially at the end.....
Duh. Everyone knows he was trying to kill Luke. But he was toying with him, just as a cat toys with a mouse. He intends to kill Luke but he might as well enjoy it.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
so when he says...."now you die..." means what?

allow me to quote from the novel. page 160 and 166

"Palpatine raised his spidery arms toward Luke:blinding white bolts of energy coruscated from his fingertips, shot across the room like sorcerous lightning, and tore through the young boy's insides, looking for ground....(page 166) Tormented beyond reason, betaken of a weakness that drained his very essence {it was killing him} he hoped of nothing more than to submit to the nothingness toward which he was drifting...'Young fool!' Palpatine rasped at Luke. 'Only now at the end, do you understand. Your puerile skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid a price for you lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will pay the price in full. You will die!' "

I don't know about you but that is clear that the emperor was trying to kill Luke, especially at the end..... Palpatine was killing Luke SLOWLY and PAINFULY.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
i disagree. palps said he was going to kill him I could say I'm going to kill someone, then do it slowly by tearing off their flesh. The wording of Palpatine's intention and the effects his Lightning had on Luke tells us that his torture-level Lightning was still enough to damage Luke's physiology to the point of death, had he kept it up.



Page 459 of my OT book says: "... although it would not have seemed possible to Luke, the outpouring of bolts from the Emperor's fingers actually increased in intensity."



Two paragraphs down it says: "Palpatine struggled in the grip of Vader's unfeeling embrace, his hands still shooting bolts of malign energy out in all directions. In his wild flailing, the lightning ripped across the room, tearing into Vader... Palpatine's body, still spewing bolts of light, spun out of control, bouncing back and forth off the sides of the shaft as it fell."


That last one doesn't lend any credence to the thought that Palpatine increased his Lightning's intensity to attack Vader, just that he kept doing it, even as he fell to his death.

i was gonna post that as well. How it wasn't any stronger for vader. if you just took the movie for what it is you could see that.

also interesting when i was reading that part over, luke actually succeeded in reflecting the emperors lightning at the beginning of the battle. it bounced harmlessly off his hand into the wall. then it overtook him with more intensity.

That is saying alot for luke who had what 3 years traing to be able to partially succeed in something only yoda himself could do?

points to luke

The movie may take precedence in that case. RotJ's scene has Luke raising his hands ala "Oh God, not the face!" But there's no tangible resistance to Palpatine's Lightning.

this is true, but it could be cause Lucas didn't have the technology for it back then. I will not be adamant about it, but i thought it would be interesting to post

If Lucas had the ability to make them gods back then, he would have. As it is, we can't make canon the speculation.