Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is where you'll post your character swaps. Remember, all characters not currently in use are fair game, including ones that have been eliminated. You can change more than one character if you so choose. All your switches can occur in a single post.

Go.

Team Id/Kandy
Drop: Quasar
Draft: Silver Surfer

-Team Galanidas-

Swapping out Firestorm (Jason) with Nate Grey.

Our New team will consist of: Thor, Walter, and Nate Grey.

Argh.

Screw Galan. uhuh

First 131fist

Jesus.

lol

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Argh.

Screw Galan. uhuh still wasn't fast enough. Id pre-cogged that shit. srsly

no time manip in this thing.

Pre-Cog is allowed. stoned

to ensure there is no problems later--this was SHAMAN NATE we drafted, btw . . .

Would have been nice if we knew where the thread was going to be posted

it was mentioned a couple times in the other thread . . .

Kewl.

We drop Hank Henshaw for Wonder Woman (fully geared- armor of hephestus, sandles of hermes, sword of hela, guantlets, lasso, and tiara).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_woman

Originally posted by leonidas
to ensure there is no problems later--this was SHAMAN NATE we drafted, btw . . .

Current Nate? mhmm

ze shaman . . .

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Kewl.

We drop Hank Henshaw for Wonder Woman (fully geared- armor of hephestus, sandles of hermes, sword of hela, guantlets, lasso, and tiara).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_woman

really . . . .? interesting . . . .

I object to Wonder Woman getting all sorts of equipment beyond her standard equipment. Bill was not allowed anything outside of Stormbreaker.

I agree, it's silly if you could circumvent that rule by drafting the equipment as part of the character, there's no logic there.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I agree, it's silly if you could circumvent that rule by drafting the equipment as part of the character, there's no logic there. I don't see the lack of logic.

The base idea is that you can't draft a character and then use gear they've don't use as part of the version that you've drafted.

Diana has plenty of instances with various gear. Drafting straight Wonder Woman doesn't net you any of the extras. Just as this won't allow me to use BS like the medusa head, invisible jet, etc.

Just drafted the version of her that we wanted. No different than drafting a certain version of a character with innate powers, like specific Eradicators or Genis Vells. We're just being specific.

If it was a power issue, you guys would have a claim, but it's not, and Batdude told us to go ahead with this.

Then how is Skuttlebutt banned then? As BRB uses it more then WW uses her weapons.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I don't see the lack of logic.

The base idea is that you can't draft a character and then use gear they've don't use as part of the version that you've drafted.

Diana has plenty of instances with various gear. Drafting straight Wonder Woman doesn't net you any of the extras. Just as this won't allow me to use BS like the medusa head, invisible jet, etc.

Just drafted the version of her that we wanted. No different than drafting a certain version of a character with innate powers, like specific Eradicators or Genis Vells. We're just being specific.

If it was a power issue, you guys would have a claim, but it's not, and Batdude told us to go ahead with this.

Not to mention we're not trying to sneak the Star Sapphire ring in.

She's been shown in comics to enter battle fully decked out before, and like Smurph stated, it certainly doesn't push her beyond the High Herald limit.

But the character is the exact same, with the exception of loopholing out of the standard equipment rule. It's not like it's two versions of the same character, it's the same character with hand-picked nonstandard equipment.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Then how is Skuttlebutt banned then? As BRB uses it more then WW uses her weapons. Presumably because you didn't specify Bill as having Skuttlebutt at the time, and the tourney hosts didn't count it as standard for the version that you drafted (which was just Bill, correct?).

We're just drafting from the very beginning Diana when she pulls out the heavy duty gear.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But the character is the exact same, with the exception of loopholing out of the standard equipment rule. It's not like it's two versions of the same character, it's the same character with hand-picked nonstandard equipment. It IS two versions of the same character, just as Extremis Ironman is a different version than, say, Hulkbuster Ironman.

Still falls under the spirit of the concept that powersets diverge versions of draftable characters. Just because in this case the powerset is not innate doesn't change the nature of the drafting game.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Presumably because you didn't specify Bill as having Skuttlebutt at the time, and the tourney hosts didn't count it as standard for the version that you drafted (which was just Bill, correct?).

The thing is that is the standard gear for him, there isn't a time when he doesn't have Skuttlebutt and is more apart of him (As his soul is connected to it) then WW weapons, which she rarely uses.

Originally posted by -K-M-
The thing is that is the standard gear for him, there isn't a time when he doesn't have Skuttlebutt and is more apart of him (As his soul is connected to it) then WW weapons, which she rarely uses. If we were drafting standard Diana, the issues would be comparable, but we're not.

srug

Skuttlebutt is standard BRB though.

I also happened to get a clear signal of the ship

Originally posted by -K-M-
Skuttlebutt is standard BRB though. Ok, be that as it may, it holds no implication on this issue. We're pretty much being as clear as possible on what we're drafting her with.

Tad silly as we didn't say BRB with Stormbreaker.

Team Sexy is dropping Bill in favour for Loki.

Our team now consists of: Loki, Talisman II and Captain Comet.

Id, you're lucky I wasn't in this thing. I've never lost a quick-draw draft scenario. I wish I had that sh*t cataloged, but I have to be at least 4-0 in them. My favorite was when I had posted before the thread starter's page had loaded after creating the thread, so he never actually saw his thread without a post.

Though I probably wouldn't have been after Surfer, so meh.

And thank god Loki's being used. No clue what they'll do with him, but I've always wanted to see him used well. God knows I sure didn't in my first tourney (Zod, Loki, and Apollo for a semi-finals berth though, so I was overachieveing like mad).

Team Win drops Sinestro and Sersi.

We pick up Cassandra Nova-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra_Nova

and Zatanna-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zatanna

Current team-
Fully geared Diana, Cassandra Nova and Zatanna.

Femme Fatales?

Tons of respect for picking up Cassandra Nova.

And we'll put him to the utmost of use Digi, just you wait

Hmmm...I wonder who Smurph will DNA copy with Nova.

God... I sincerely disagree with the idea that scuttlebutt wasn't allowed as normal gear but this wonder woman gear is...

Just saying. Since I have absolutely no authority here. :-P

What makes drafting Wonder Women with full Gear, any different to Baron Zemo w/moon stones?

Indeed.

I don't see why Zemo with the moonstones shouldn't be acceptable.

Yeah! coot

When will the rosters be closed?

I'm assuming everyone is done?

Btw, Id/KK, I have no problem with Zemo being drafted with the moonstones.

Due to these recent events coming to light, I would like to make sure that we are drafting Loki w/equipment. Essentially his dagger/sword and Norn Stones.

Originally posted by batdude123
I'm assuming everyone is done?

Btw, Id/KK, I have no problem with Zemo being drafted with the moonstones.

Baron with those stones is above HH.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Due to these recent events coming to light, I would like to make sure that we are drafting Loki w/equipment. Essentially his dagger/sword and Norn Stones.

I'd personally have no problem with Loki being drafted with the dagger and Norn Stones as he's used both enough to be valid.

huh?? ww has used her equipment a LOT more than loki has used THAT stuff. there should be some sort of appearance limit.

Why? Skuttlebutt was used more then WW w/armor, Loki w/equipment, Baron w/ moonstones yet it was banned,

Originally posted by leonidas
huh?? ww has used her equipment a LOT more than loki has used THAT stuff. there should be some sort of appearance limit.
Bull.

Loki's got a good 10 appearances or so with his sword/dagger. Even more with the Norn Stones. Not to mention that I'm drafting him WITH said gear here, like Smurph said it shouldn't matter whether or not it's standard equipment.

First of all, there's a difference between using gear/equipment and having an entire ship with you in battle, so that argument is out.

Second of all...

Originally posted by The Nuul
Baron with those stones is above HH.

As quan would say, "Based on?"

Third of all, anybody mind telling me what the sword/dagger and the Norn stones do for Loki?

Originally posted by batdude123
Third of all, anybody mind telling me what the sword/dagger and the Norn stones do for Loki?

I'll disclose this to you in private.

I'll allow Loki + the norn stones, but not the sword.

It's been settled then.

Originally posted by batdude123
First of all, there's a difference between using gear/equipment and having an entire ship with you in battle, so that argument is out.

Second of all...



As quan would say, "Based on?"

Third of all, anybody mind telling me what the sword/dagger and the Norn stones do for Loki?


His feats and his fight with Photon who is also above HH.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=456932&highlight=baron+forumid%3A98

Originally posted by The Nuul
His feats and his fight with Photon who is also above HH.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=456932&highlight=baron+forumid%3A98

1. Photon isn't above HH, and he's being used in this tournament.

2. A lot of Zemo's impressive feats will be moot anyway, since time manipulation and teleporation are both banned tactics.

Originally posted by batdude123


2. A lot of Zemo's impressive feats will be moot anyway, since time manipulation and teleporation are both banned tactics.

Good point.

okay, then we drop thor, and re-draft thor with his gauntlets and belt of strength.

http://marvel.com/universe/Thor_(Thor_Odinson)

I knew this shit was gonna happen... facepalm

No for the guantlets and belt of strength.

Originally posted by batdude123
I knew this shit was gonna happen... facepalm

yeah, kinda opened a can of worms there . . .

Read the edited post.

Originally posted by batdude123
Read the edited post.

huh?? why not? they just double his strength. he's still well in the herald class.

Why don't you guys just go with standard equipment? Or is the issue where to draw the line between standard and special?

it has always been standard, then bats let in diana with all her gear--then kris was somehow allowed the norn stones . . .

the belt/gauntlets easily falls into those 2 categories, though i'd be just as happy with simple standard equipment only being allowed, as was the case in the first couple rds.

Originally posted by Digi
Why don't you guys just go with standard equipment? Or is the issue where to draw the line between standard and special?

Yeah, this doesn't seem to be working out. People are exploiting this pretty hard.

Standard equipment it is. If there are characters any team needs to switch out because of this, we'll postpone the date of the matches to Tuesday.

Somehow allowed the Norn stones?

Loki's got more than a couple appearances with it. Not to mention his fire-sword and whatnot.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, this doesn't seem to be working out. People are exploiting this pretty hard.

Standard equipment it is. If there are characters any team needs to switch out because of this, we'll postpone the date of the matches to Tuesday.

I can't really speak for Smurph, but yeah, we'll probably have to switch up our team. We'll try and get something finalized tonight.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Somehow allowed the Norn stones?

Loki's got more than a couple appearances with it. Not to mention his fire-sword and whatnot.

point's moot. but by no stretch of the imagination shoudl the stones have been considered remotely close to 'standard'. and my point WAS that if said stuff HAD BEEN allowed, the belt should likewise have been admissable.

it no longer matters, however.

Originally posted by leonidas
point's moot. but by no stretch of the imagination shoudl the stones have been considered remotely close to 'standard'. and my point WAS that if said stuff HAD BEEN allowed, the belt should likewise have been admissable.

it no longer matters, however.
Okay, so you're lying.

If this is how you'll try and play it in the battlezone, we're in luck.

Also, would it at all be possible to get a thread dedicated just to updated rules/illegal tactics? I know they've been revised and edited a couple of times during the tournament, but having a thread primarily just for that with as little banter/offtopic discussion as possible would be cool.

Oh, FFS people...

yeah, we'll need a postponed draft date.

Hi what did I miss? *reads posts*....... Oh my

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Oh, FFS people...

My sentiments exactly.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Okay, so you're lying.

If this is how you'll try and play it in the battlezone, we're in luck.

the hell are you yammering about? explain exactly how i 'lied' again? you telling me you think the norn stones SHOULD be standard for loki??

please.

Who cares, whats done is done.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Who cares, whats done is done.

true enough--don't like being called a liar however . . .

lol

Originally posted by leonidas
true enough--don't like being called a liar however . . . lying isn't always a bad trait

Originally posted by Starscream M
lying isn't always a bad trait

that IS true . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
true enough--don't like being called a liar however . . .

But you are...I mean....were cool right?

Originally posted by leonidas
true enough--don't like being called a liar however . . .
Chillout, I'm just giving you a hard time.

Though I would have debated you on the norn stones, they're not standard equipment in 2010, I'll agree on that.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Chillout, I'm just giving you a hard time.

Though I would have debated you on the norn stones, they're not standard equipment in 2010, I'll agree on that.

sorry. bad day in RL. all's cool.

Originally posted by leonidas
the belt/gauntlets easily falls into those 2 categories, though i'd be just as happy with simple standard equipment only being allowed, as was the case in the first couple rds. I don't see Thor as being in the herald class with those items, but whatever. I guess that's the dealbreaker.

It wasn't the case for the first round (we haven't had a couple of rounds...). All we have to base that assertion off is one vague post by Kahn that he hasn't been around to provide any reason for. Batdude's stepped in and is trying to reason out what makes sense, and overrules what doesn't, because when the rule maker is absent, what choice do we have?

I hate this part of tourneys. Not directing the negativity towards anyone in particular (just quoting you Leo, not attacking you), but when everything gets reduced to this bickering, drafting sucks.

Anyways, talking with Jake at the moment. We'll try and resort out everything ASAP to get this show on the road.

Originally posted by leonidas
sorry. bad day in RL. all's cool.
No worries man, I always get a lil heated anyways. When 2 burgers from burger king is your sole fuel for day, it's not easy to act mature.

I have no problems with drafting Loki clean. Regrettably our bickering has ruined Smurph's initial draft. We should both step back on our desired claims and simply let him have the gear. But that decision is out of our hands now anyways.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
No worries man, I always get a lil heated anyways. When 2 burgers from burger king is your sole fuel for day, it's not easy to act mature.

I have no problems with drafting Loki clean. Regrettably our bickering has ruined Smurph's initial draft. We should both step back on our desired claims and simply let him have the gear. But that decision is out of our hands now anyways.

now THAT is something we can agree on. my apologies to to smurph and jake. it wasn't my intent to try and get ww banned (though i think a double strength thor is still a herald--just adding strength wouldn't be enough imo to place him above herald . . .) i was ALWAYS all right with ww and her gear.

let it stand this rd bats and we'll deal with it next rd.

I still hate you all.

you're not really canadian, are you?

The characters (with equipment) being drafted HAVE existed and have showings in comics. It seems silly in theory to not allow a character with legitimate showings and feats to not compete because there is a more popular and well-known version of the character, even if the latter version isn't being used.

That being said, I think this little debacle has shown the other side of the coin...

Rather than making rushed decisions, since everybody seems to have reached an agreement and happiness, can we leave things as they were and sit on this until a thought out decision can be reached by finals? Hopefully by then Kahn will have time to give input as well.

Ok, so are you fickle bastards sure about letting WW have her full gear?

100% Yes.

Leo seemed to indicate the same thing.

yes he did.

Is it to late to draft Ion 2 Kyle w/ GL Ring? I think its completely reasonable, given that he has used, and carried his ring for 99% of his appearances. smurph

sly

Oh and no to Wonder Women with full gear.

Originally posted by Digi
Id, you're lucky I wasn't in this thing. I've never lost a quick-draw draft scenario. I wish I had that sh*t cataloged, but I have to be at least 4-0 in them. My favorite was when I had posted before the thread starter's page had loaded after creating the thread, so he never actually saw his thread without a post.

Though I probably wouldn't have been after Surfer, so meh.



All I can say is I am quite pleased to have posted twice within a minute. stonedgun3

1hYV-JSjpyU

Originally posted by batdude123
Ok, so are you fickle bastards sure about letting WW have her full gear?
Not unless that same precedent is going to be applied to all characters (thor with belt, BRB's ship, etc).

Originally posted by -K-M-
Then how is Skuttlebutt banned then? As BRB uses it more then WW uses her weapons. the team lounge is the problem

Originally posted by King Kandy
Not unless that same precedent is going to be applied to all characters (thor with belt, BRB's ship, etc).
's a bit different considering that said things put said characters above the allowed limit. The only way such things would reasonably be allowed is it came at the cost of their meshing limit. Skuttlebutt's too big and too powerful and Thor's belt+gauntlet would push him above the limit.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Not unless that same precedent is going to be applied to all characters (thor with belt, BRB's ship, etc). Leo's retracting the draft of Thor with the belt.

A ship was ruled to not fall under the same rules as normal equipment, which Batdude JUST said.

Seriously, we've been over these things. Is there any objection that you have that everybody else in the tourney hasn't already come to terms with?

Originally posted by leonidas
you're not really canadian, are you?

Spanish

Si.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the team lounge is the problem

Talisman could have shrunk it or put it in his pouch for the time being. That's easy to deal with. Regardless its banned, so no big deal and we don't have BRB anymore.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Spanish

Si.



Fcking traitor.... No wonder why our VW Golfs sucked ass up here for the longest time, its because of people like you.

trading is officially closed, right?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Talisman could have shrunk it or put it in his pouch for the time being. That's easy to deal with. Regardless its banned, so no big deal and we don't have BRB anymore. your team would have been gibbed once it materialized in the lounge the instant your team did though.

but yeah, beta ray's gone anyway

Originally posted by "Id"
Wonder Women w/ Full Gear is the same character with out it. Not in the context of tourney drafting. If this was the same character, we wouldn't be having this dispute. There's clearly a difference between the two drafts (hence your bitching), and there stands to be no logical reason why we can't use the character in the context presented in this tourney.

The character we've drafted exists.
The character we've drafted has appearances.
The character we've drafted has feats.
The character we've drafted has a power set that can be accurately gauged and that has been ruled to be within the power limits set for this tourney.

Why can't we use her?

Oh yeah. Because there's a more standard version of the character.

Wut?

Anyways, Batdude has told me that she's allowed and that his decision is final. I'm sure you've got all sorts of inanity to post though, so have at it, and I'll see you in the match tomorrow.

Isn't the matches on tuesday now?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Isn't the matches on tuesday now? I know I asked for a postponed draft date, but since the ruling was revoked, I assumed we'd be proceeding forward as planned.

Dunno though. I doubt it's a big deal if people need to wait one day.

Either way, I intend on writing up our stuff tonight. srug

I would be too, but my partners is unavaliable (think its 3am there)

Sleep deprivation is no excuse.

I agree, sleeping and blinking is for the weak.

Originally posted by "Id"
Let me ignore Smurphs tantrum bullshit, and address what matter.
Cool. Feel free to address this then:

joel says: (5:30:15 PM)
so... are you making the Diana ruling now or after this round?
Steve says: (5:37:27 PM)
It's ok.
joel says: (5:38:15 PM)
sweet. thanks._
Steve says: (5:42:11 PM)
I'm not backing down on this ruling either.

Steve = Batdude.

I'll just follow your lead and ignore the "tantrum bullshit", as you put it.

Her gear was all mentioned or shown explicitly in the Secret Files. She's donned the armor enough times to ensure it's not a plot device item, same with the gauntlets, sword, sandals, etc. It's essentially the same as the Iron Man analogy used earlier. She's not breaching the power cap, and pretty much everyone else is fine with this draft pick.

Personally, I have no problem with drafting WW with equipment... I just want to know that that same precedent will be applicable for all characters one might draft.

Is there going to be a updated draft list?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Drafting's closed and the matches are on as scheduled, I presume.


http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/1264012974681.jpg

K, so I just sent my write-up in to Steve. Assuming he doesn't give us something ridiculous as a battle field, that should cover it.

ours was sent in last night as well. could it be matches will actually BOTH start on time!? shock

Steve should have ours as well, so unless some outlandish tactic has been NAY'D, things should proceed smoothly.

We'll see. ermm

Good luck to Galan and Leo, should be a good match and if not I blame Leo as I always do

Originally posted by -K-M-
Good luck to Galan and Leo, should be a good match and if not I blame Leo as I always do
I wish you two, as well as Smurph/Jake and Kandy/Id the very best. If this does not go the way I want it to, I'll make sure to blame everybody but myself.

Yeah, good luck all around to everyone

Etc.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, good luck all around to everyone

Suck up

Originally posted by -K-M-
Suck up

*feigns ignorance*

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Steve should have ours as well, so unless some outlandish tactic has been NAY'D, things should proceed smoothly. Well, I'm told an outlandish tactic of Kandy and Id's has been NAY'D.

Surprise, surprise?

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Well, I'm told an outlandish tactic of Kandy and Id's has been NAY'D.

Surprise, surprise?

Yeah I heard they summoned Alpha Flight and thats pretty much over for anyone that isn't Canadian.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yeah I heard they summoned Alpha Flight and thats pretty much over for anyone that isn't Canadian.

If it was the normal Alpha Flight characters it would have been fine. But we tried to introduce the not so normal version of the same characters with FULL GEAR. grumpy

Originally posted by "Id"
Naw we tried to introduce not so popular version of the same character, with full gear. And it was denied. grumpy

So Onslaught with Puck on his back?

Glad we're not staring down that monster.

haha seems our team is always the first to go.

So it begins and once again good luck. Leo and Galan are some of my favorite posters here, so win, lose, draw, rapage or neutering Ill be happy (well maybe not the last one)

Yes, this match will be one that we're all sorry to see one team lose. The following match we'll all be sorry to see someone win.

313

Originally posted by Digi
Yes, this match will be one that we're all sorry to see one team lose. The following match we'll all be sorry to see someone win.

313 Does the following match mean mine or the finals match?

Either way, you want to see me win. Don't lie.

good luck gents.

Winking smiley after Leo has read our post.

This does not bode well...

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Winking smiley after Leo has read our post.

This does not bode well...



you assume i've read it . . . .

i'm waiting for galan to give me the highlights.

$10 for a Coles Notes on our post.

Originally posted by -K-M-
$10 for a Coles Notes on our post.



i had typed cole's notes at first, but didn't think any of the non-canadians would have gotten the joke!

haha we Canadians have to stick together, wait...arn't we supposed to be enemies right now? Im so confused.

well damn, man, no wonder--have YOU seen your heritage?

*Warned for making me look at my heritage.