Kain, Kratos, Dante, Link & Sephiroth's Warcraft dragon gauntlet

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Q'Anilia
Sephiroth and Kain goes up against the dragons of Warcraft. Six rounds of combat with rest between each.

1st: Alexstrasza, Korialstrasz, Keristrasza
2nd: Malygos, Sapphiron, Sindragosa, Tyrygosa
3rd: Ysera
4th: Deathwing, Onyxia, Sintharia, Nefarian, Sartharion
5th: Nozdormu, Soridormi, Chronormu

6th: Eonar resurrect all the fallen dragons and the team take them all on.

Rules:
- Kain must be close to drain the soul of someone and may only teleport on the ground.
- Kratos is the version that fought Colossus.
- Dante is not allowed his sky-scrape splitting sword.
- Link as the Hero of Time, but he is allowed only five Ice arrows for the entire gauntlet.
- Sephiroth is by the decision of High Father not allowed Lifestream (Or Nega).

Rules for each specific encounter:
1st: No rules. Kick their asses.

2nd: Malygos will prevent Kain's protective spells from being used. Should Malygos go down, Kain get his protective spells back (Mist, Shield, Transform)

3rd: Ysera is not enraged and will start the fight unprovoked, but in ethereal form on top of a castle, half-sleeping. Nearing her will provoke, as will preparing any assault. The team for this battle get preparation. All attacks of physical structure will go straight through her.

4th: Killing Deathwing at any place other than last will summon Dargonax in the 6th battle. Deathwing is not allowed Endless Hunger. Deathwing in this battle has had preparation and: Link doesn't have any gear beyond the utmost most default, kudos to Deathwing. Dante lack quicksilver. Kain has no protective spells, nor can he touch Deathwing's soul. Kratos is unarmed. Sephiroth is cursed in a manner that make his sword unable to pierce Deathwing's plating.

5th: Nozdormu is not allowed to stop time, but he is allowed to prevent all opponents from using superhuman speed, keep all from using time magic and he is allowed to turn one of the five into dust.

6th: Should Deathwing not die last in his battle, Dargonax will come to aid during the 6th battle. During the 6th battle however, Kain is allowed his protective spells despite Malygos, everyone has their best gear (Not Triforce) and the team is in defense, supposed to protect themselves from the assaulting dragons. The battle take place at a castle. Nozdormu will not participate in the battle until all other dragons are dead.



Notes:
- Nozdormu may not undo his own death at any time
- Deathwing is not allowed Endless Hunger
- Alexstrasza is not allowed to use the emotions of the team
- Ysera is not enraged
- Malygos may not erase existence
- Dargonax can not drain Kain

Utrigita
It might just be me but I see this being one long way towards the stomp waiting at the fourth fase.

1. The team will make it, barely but I think they will make it.

2. Now here I see the team having very severe problems, Malygos even though he doesn't have his erase existance (nice spell but ultimately not all important) is going to turn them into bunnies or teleport into the atmosphere or something, we are dealing with the greatest magic user amongst the dragon (from my perspective) looking at what the guy can do and has done well... but lets assume the team makes it.

3. Ysera... I'm not entirely certain but I don't think anyone on the team got a outstanding ability to block their own mind from intrusion on a level as Ysera can produce, they will also have the problem with her state, and if they get past it will be pure luck.

4. They get absolutely rapestomped.

5. A massive slaughter, taking away Nozdormu's ability to stop time helps the team granted, but he can still erase beings from existance and all records and memories about them with a single grain of sand.

6. .... speaks for itself imo.

Q'Anilia
I was thinking Nozdormu in 5th to be something like he was in the end of DotD. Not so sure Malygos can polymorph most of these, either.

ares834
1. The team should be able to make it.
2. Here is where they begin to falter. Malygos is simply immensly powerful in magics. I don't see any reason why polymorph won't work on his opponents. Only Link has a defense, but Malygos isn't evil so... Still the team could make it.
3. Don't know enough to make a claim.
4. Dragons stomp.
5. Dragons stomp again.
6. ...

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by ares834
6. ...

stick out tongue There has been people that would claim character solo victory on that one. Which is the reason I made the thread, because some I think are confident the team would win.

ScreamPaste
Yeah, but they all rage quit earlier this week. stick out tongue

(Well, others are just MIA.)

Q'Anilia
I just think it would be an interesting debate if people stood up for the team smile

Utrigita
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I was thinking Nozdormu in 5th to be something like he was in the end of DotD. Not so sure Malygos can polymorph most of these, either.

At the end of DotD, Nozdormu had his full power restored, and even before the restoration, Krasus knew that a grain of sand could erase him from existance if Nozdormu wished it.

I have little doubt that he can at the very least polumorph 2 of them, then there is just the ocean of other spells he can utilize, Krasus knew that he when he meet Malygos. Krasus was iirc in a place where the location shaped itself after what Malygos somewhere, in a far distant back of his mind, wished it to be and at that point of time, he was low on power and more or less insane. He is much stronger in this encounter.

LLLLLink
F*** me for not reading the OP.

Q'Anilia
Too bad. I put a lot of thought in it stick out tongue

LLLLLink
laughingIt would've been good info had it been it a proper thread.

Q'Anilia
Proper?

LLLLLink
A thread where it belongs.

Dont worry, this is a decent thread.
Still, you know my stance, lol.

LLLLLink
I was referring to my edited post, btw.

Cub
Alexstrasza is the life warden. Cant she just take their life?

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Cub
Alexstrasza is the life warden. Cant she just take their life?

I wondered about this one myself, but I don't believe Alexs has ever displayed such an ability. Either way, it probably wouldn't work on Kain.

Utrigita
She to my knowledge haven't nore have it been even hintered it is a ability she can use.

In theory it should be entirely possible, but I'll have to check my handbook when I get the chance.

Cub
Something I wonder. Why does anything bad happen when Nozdormu is alive? Hes like powerful enough to stop all problems

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Cub
Something I wonder. Why does anything bad happen when Nozdormu is alive? Hes like powerful enough to stop all problems

Nozdormu doesn't intervene unless time is being tempered with directly.

Cub
Why not? Cant he like swat Deathwing, Lich King and all who threaten to destroy the world?

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Cub
Why not? Cant he like swat Deathwing, Lich King and all who threaten to destroy the world?

It is his duty to only protect the integrity of timelines, not the world itself.

Cub
Doesnt mean he cant do it, though

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Cub
Doesnt mean he cant do it, though

Doesn't mean he can't, yes, but means he won't.

LLLLLink
Maybe its just me, but it seems like some of Team One is going to die pretty easy. Sephiroth, for one.
Link and Dante seem to be the strongest contenders here, imho, so I'm assuming one of them gets turned to dust?

Q'Anilia
In the fifth battle, I could see Nozdormu turn either Link or Kratos into dust. Dante doesn't have his speed there and that reduce his threat significantly. Kain pose no immediate threat and neither does Sephiroth. Not in that battle at least.

BloodRain
Strange to see all of the Team 1 fans take one look at this and vote for the other team.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by BloodRain
Strange to see all of the Team 1 fans take one look at this and vote for the other team.

Yeah well, the Warcraft dragons are pretty nasty.

Rapidash
It is unlikely that they can slay a single dragon. It does not become impossible until they go up against the Bronze flight though. The rest is just highly improbable or nigh impossible. Getting past the first less so than the other four battles.

The sixth is just the spite of the century.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Yeah well, the Warcraft dragons are pretty nasty.
It's not that. Its because team one has been potently nerfed to be unable to stomp.

For example, we know that the Master Sword prevents enemies from transforming Link against his will (in this case, dust). But, the rules of this thread allow the dragons to bypass these normal defenses.

Another example is that the Master Sword is time itself and Link is in possession of it, but one of the dragons is able to bypass that via thread rules.
So basically, it would be straight up foolish fanboyism to ignore these things.

Although, I think full power HoT solos this thread. Too bad he isn't a character...

ArtificialGlory
Where is this idea that the Master Sword is time itself came from anyway? At any rate, Nozdormu is the master of time itself.

Rapidash
The rule about Nozdormu turning someone to dust. I think we are supposed to focus on the ONE rather than the DUST part. Since it is within his power to turn someone into dust, the rule is a restriction against him rather than something against the non-draconic.

What you need to realize is that Nozdormu is horribly restricted in this thread. Nozdormu's powers span the entire universe. He is not merely a user of time magic. He is master of time and space. He has grasped and held together all of existence. Reality itself has been at his mercy. The name "Nozdormu the Timeless" is not there for no reason. He exist outside time, where he watch over and moderate things.

It is within his power to make a person having never existed. If the Master Sword really is time itself, it is within his control and he can do with it as he will. The only creature above Nozdormu in terms of true power in the world of Warcraft is High Father who created time.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by LLLLLink
It's not that. Its because team one has been potently nerfed to be unable to stomp.

For example, we know that the Master Sword prevents enemies from transforming Link against his will (in this case, dust). But, the rules of this thread allow the dragons to bypass these normal defenses.

Another example is that the Master Sword is time itself and Link is in possession of it, but one of the dragons is able to bypass that via thread rules.
So basically, it would be straight up foolish fanboyism to ignore these things.

Although, I think full power HoT solos this thread. Too bad he isn't a character...

Sounds frighteningly close to a No-Limit Fallacy. "Link has the sword. Therefore he can not be transformed"

I have heard nothing about the Master Sword being time itself, but it's a bad thing if it is. He would have had a better shot if it wasn't. You don't really know who Nozdormu is, do you? Nozdormu cancel the time magic of others because it is within his power to do so. It is not a thread rule. He is the ultimate ruler of time. Rapidash and ArtificialGlory has already mentioned that Nozdormu is the master of time itself. Master of time itself > Time itself.

I picked HoT Link because that was the only Link profiled on the KMC wiki. If there is no such a thing as a Hero of Time, blame the creator of that article.

LLLLLink
Shiek says in OoT, "As long as you hold the Master Sword, you hold Time itself in your hands." Time belongs to Link.
Also, the OoT holds the powers of the goddess of time, allowing complete control.

As for the transformation nullification, TP presents a clear demonstration. The mere presence of the Sword dispels permanent curses. That isn't even Link touching it.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Shiek says in OoT, "As long as you hold the Master Sword, you hold Time itself in your hands." Time belongs to Link.
Also, the OoT holds the powers of the goddess of time, allowing complete control.

As for the transformation nullification, TP presents a clear demonstration. The mere presence of the Sword dispels permanent curses. That isn't even Link touching it.

How reliable a source is Shiek then? Did he help with the creation of the sword, did he read it in a book, or does he know it through some mystical means?

Nozdormu is the God of Time if we want to be technical, but you shouldn't throw titles around so readily. Titles are insignificant. Deathwing is the Aspect of Death. Lich King is the God of Death. Alexstrasza is the Aspect of Life. Their titles imply that they have complete control over Life and Death, but that doesn't mean they do. Being the Goddess of Time changes nothing, so I assume there's a deeper reason to why you bring that up.

No-Limit Fallacious argument.

LLLLLink
Sheik is Zelda, of whom the game is named after <_<

The 7th and leader of the sages, Zelda, is the most reliable source in the game aside from Ganondorf himself.

The word "god" is so watered down here, so you seem to have noticed. Let's just say that for this thread, both are immune to the others time powers.

ArtificialGlory
So what is Link's best feat with time? Even if it's true and not a hyperbole that the Master Sword is time itself, it won't matter when the master of time itself comes and takes away your fancy toys.

Q'Anilia
I know who Sheik is, but to my memory she used magic to switch gender, thus' I say "He" because that's what "she" is. I could be wrong on the gender switch though. The fact that the game is named after her is irrelevant (Why in the world did you decide to bring that up?)

Yes, but how reliable is the "most reliable"? How did she attain this information? Was she told by a guy who was told by a guy? Did she read it? Did she simply know it? Even a sage can misinterpret.

LLLLLink
Link is the Master of Time in his universe, so its sort of silly to assume that a dragon called the master of time can override a universe whose entire game was crafted around the concept of time.

Also, you guys do realize that your whole argument is, "Your game is lying.", right?

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
So what is Link's best feat with time? Even if it's true and not a hyperbole that the Master Sword is time itself, it won't matter when the master of time itself comes and takes away your fancy toys.

His (Hero of Time Link) only feats with time is playing his ocarina to move a day ahead, slowing down the day, and going back 3 days earlier.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Link is the Master of Time in his universe, so its sort of silly to assume that a dragon called the master of time can override a universe whose entire game was crafted around the concept of time.

Also, you guys do realize that your whole argument is, "Your game is lying.", right?

So what has Link ever really done to establish himself as such? I mean, he must be one crappy master if he allows all these things to happen.

Q'Anilia
A universe whose game was crafted around the concept of time is irrelevant information. Timesplitters was created around the concept of time, but a Bronze Dragonflight whelp would make a Timesplitter weep in inadequacy.

No, my argument is "Zelda might be wrong", not that the game might be wrong.

BloodRain
Is dispelling forced transformations the same as turning to dust? And the Dark Fog can still turn Link into a wolf if he doesn't spin attack it away.

LLLLLink
You have yet to provide any real argument. Let me know when you get a statement from Shigeru Miyamoto saying that "We lied about Zelda" and maybe you will have an argument.
For now, it is nothing but wasteful banter.

And Bloodrain, how is that NOT the Sword preventing transformation?

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by BloodRain
Is dispelling forced transformations the same as turning to dust? And the Dark Fog can still turn Link into a wolf if he doesn't spin attack it away.

He doesn't transform. He age his target to dust.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He doesn't transform. He age his target to dust.

I suppose it would be a kind of transformation. However, simply aging someone to dust in Warcraft is an incredibly infantile use of time magic, let alone for a Bronze dragon.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He doesn't transform. He age his target to dust.

Thats great. But yet again, there is absolutely no reason for Link to even be affected. Time magic is going to be moot in this battle.

ScreamPaste
I'm not making an argument, just pointing out a flaw.


The problem is, Nozdormu is the master of time in the WarCraft verse. Against the master of time in any other verse, there would be a stalemate.

Time = Time, not > time.

LLLLLink
Dude, I already said that.

ScreamPaste
Well, I worded it better! D:<

LLLLLink
:P Go home, college boy! Get out of my head... er... thread!

Just kidding, you can stay.

ScreamPaste
Lol, college boy... Care to slide me the funds? stick out tongue I certainly can't afford it.

..and I said I wouldn't post in this thread. There goes that plan.

LLLLLink
Hey, I have that effect on people. wink
But hey, I'm in the same boat as far as college.

Link is teh bestzorz! Post relevant.

BloodRain
@5L Cause if he doesn't use the spin attack and just stands there he'll be forcefully transformed by if. So he can still be transformed... if this even classes as transformation.

ScreamPaste
Link doesn't even need to be touching the sword for it to have it's effects, actually. Only near it, and he's not required to actually parry such attacks stick out tongue

BloodRain
Then how come the Dark Fog can still turn him after he has the MS?

ScreamPaste
Probably a gameplay mechanic considering that we have two cutscene which contradict it.

BloodRain

Burning thought
This is indeed spite, there are several dragons here that could easily solo the field, Nozmordu, Malygos and Ysera are the most obvious ones to me.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'm not making an argument, just pointing out a flaw.


The problem is, Nozdormu is the master of time in the WarCraft verse. Against the master of time in any other verse, there would be a stalemate.

Time = Time, not > time.

I know you aren't making an argument, but I think there's something worth mentioning revolving your point.

You're correct that Time = Time, but there's a difference between ruling time and just having access to it . Just because Link hold onto time (Although I do not agree that he actually does), does not mean he has as much control over it as Nozdormu.

Can Link extract himself from past and future? Can Link undo his own death? Can Link touch the very fabrics of time? Can Link see everything that is going on in all time-lines? Can Link age a body so far it distort?

I'm sorry. I don't see it. I don't see Time = Time here. I see Time > Time, even though normally it does not work that way.

Next aspect to take in consideration is that Nozdormu exert all his power with a single thought. The enemy can be omnipotent and invincible for all it's worth, but when an item or gesture is required, the character will still lose to someone that can freeze or destroy you with just a thought.

Time = Time, but Nozdormu > Master Sword.

MooCowofJustice
Actually, Link might be able to undo his own death. But I'd have to play the game again.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Actually, Link might be able to undo his own death. But I'd have to play the game again.

Before it happens?

MooCowofJustice
Well, we're talking about time travel, so, sure.

Q'Anilia
No, we're talking about seeing your death, experiencing it and deciding you do not want to die, so you make the killing blow never happen.

Burning thought
silly little moocow....Links somehow going to resurrect himself despite being dead? lolz...this I gotta seee!

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Probably a gameplay mechanic considering that we have two cutscene which contradict it.

A limit indication sounds more probable, unless he was protected from the Dark Fog in a cut-scene. It happening during gameplay does not mean it's a mechanic just because something different is shown elsewhere. Being protected =/= immune.

MooCowofJustice
At the risk of conflicting ideas, yes, Link can.

Burning thought
Noz can only turn one of the five into dust it seems. Not all of them, although i wonder how this works? is this that grain of sand power?

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
Noz can only turn one of the five into dust it seems. Not all of them, although i wonder how this works? is this that grain of sand power?

No, the move used against Gaskal in the beginning of WotA. To be honest, when I made the thread I forgot about his grain of sand move.

Burning thought
What does Noz do exactly against Gaskal?

ScreamPaste
Except the magic used to turn Link into a Wolf in the first place and the magic used later are all the same stick out tongue The dark fog is just a gameplay obstacle. Except for when Link was transformed permanently, which used far more powerful magic. (Ganon's own.) and Link didn't even need to tocuh the sword for it to reverse it.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
What does Noz do exactly against Gaskal?

I can not remember exactly, but he pretty much overwhelm him with the raw power of infinity. Gaskal grow younger and older at the same time, his body distort, his reality twisting, his time bending and by the time it is over, Gaskal is no more.

This is something Nozdormu did while not being present. He was at this time snared by the Old Gods, busy keeping reality from crashing.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Except the magic used to turn Link into a Wolf in the first place and the magic used later are all the same stick out tongue The dark fog is just a gameplay obstacle. Except for when Link was transformed permanently, which used far more powerful magic. (Ganon's own.) and Link didn't even need to tocuh the sword for it to reverse it.

But it is limited then, unquestionably.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I can not remember exactly, but he pretty much overwhelm him with the raw power of infinity. Gaskal grow younger and older at the same time, his body distort, his reality twisting, his time bending and by the time it is over, Gaskal is no more.

This is something Nozdormu did while not being present. He was at this time snared by the Old Gods, busy keeping reality from crashing.

What an unusual quaint little dragon. hmm, I would like him to do it to Kain, making Kain older would evolve him, younger and it would technically bring him to life as flesh.... confused

ScreamPaste
Everythign is limited, but this was not a limit. no expression I'm not following you.

The sword undid more powerful magic without him touching it. The fog is moot. no expression

The fog is the same as the original transformation, which the sword also protects him from.

1. When Link enters twilight, the nature of the realm turns him into a wolf. This is the same magic as the dark fog. It's temporary.
2. Ganon's own magic was used to permanently seal Link in this shape. The sword reversed it without being touched.
3. With the sword Link can enter the twilight realm without being turned into a Wolf.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
What an unusual quaint little dragon. hmm, I would like him to do it to Kain, making Kain older would evolve him, younger and it would technically bring him to life as flesh.... confused Nozdormu show of a lot. When Korialstrasz went to see him, the only reason Nozdormu did his sandstorm was show Korialstrasz just how little it would take and just how powerful he is.
When Nozdormu contacted Korialstrasz during WotA, he from his "prison" threw Korialstrasz around with telekinesis while Korialstrasz was in his lair. Nozdormu could have attained contact in different ways, but he slapped the younger dragon around a little, simply to let Korialstrasz figure out "it could only be one"

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Everythign is limited, but this was not a limit. no expression I'm not following you.

The sword undid more powerful magic without him touching it. The fog is moot. no expression

The fog is the same as the original transformation, which the sword also protects him from.

1. When Link enters twilight, the nature of the realm turns him into a wolf. This is the same magic as the dark fog. It's temporary.
2. Ganon's own magic was used to permanently seal Link in this shape. The sword reversed it without being touched.
3. With the sword Link can enter the twilight realm without being turned into a Wolf.

Link didn't have his sword when he was transformed by Ganon?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Nozdormu show of a lot. When Korialstrasz went to see him, the only reason Nozdormu did his sandstorm was show Korialstrasz just how little it would take and just how powerful he is.
When Nozdormu contacted Korialstrasz during WotA, he from his "prison" threw Korialstrasz around with telekinesis while Korialstrasz was in his lair. Nozdormu could have attained contact in different ways, but he slapped the younger dragon around a little, simply to let Korialstrasz figure out "it could only be one"

Thats a bit unsporting, although I kinda feel sorry for Nozdmormu, power is nothing when you know your going to die anyway and from the sounds of him he does not get out to have any fun with the others, see an Orc arena match or something with Alex...those two should you kno....

ScreamPaste
Nope. Zant did it, but he used Ganon's magic to do so. That was before Link got the master sword. Afterward, neither Zant nor Ganon could repeat it.

Rapidash
Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats a bit unsporting, although I kinda feel sorry for Nozdmormu, power is nothing when you know your going to die anyway and from the sounds of him he does not get out to have any fun with the others, see an Orc arena match or something with Alex...those two should you kno....

The irony in being Nozdormu is that you have complete control over time, but you do not have the time to do anything other than watching over it. The infinite one is busy for all infinity.

BloodRain
Except here where the dragon can let loose ^^

Utrigita
pretty much.

Rapidash
It is pretty much impossible to defeat a Nozdormu not bound by personality. KMC threads with him should not exist stick out tongue

Burning thought
If they do exist he should be limited to shown feats that do not involve freezing opponents completly in time or creating sandstorms that can disintegrate them.

Rapidash
It is directly stated that he can undo his own death as well. Might want to exclude that ability.

Burning thought
I thought him dieing was supposed to be part of the Pantheons trick of making sure he does not become "too" arrogent. Why would he then be able to reverse his own death? also I thought Nozdormu was supposed to work against Paradoxes? would he not create one if he died, resurrected himself only to negate the reason for resurrecting himself because he never died.

Rapidash
He is able to reverse his own death, but he is not able to avoid his fate. Only the Pantheon and Nozdormu knows what his fate is. And Nozdormu dying is more dangerous to time and space than him not doing so. If Nozdormu dies, the War of the Ancients might still happen and should it do, reality would cease.

Nozdormu can not afford to die. There is too much work to be done.

Burning thought
What claims he can reverse his own death?

But still his fate is eventually to die, Aman'Thul gave him that knowledge so the only time he should have a way of reviving himself is if in his own timeline he dies when he is not meant to.

Rapidash
The RPG rulebook. He is fightable there.

Exactly. Nozdormu is a strange character, but he has the ability to keep himself from death long enough for him to die.

Burning thought
I see.

Then technically its not a debatable argument, since we do not know when Nozdormu would die, also in a debate he is not part of the Warcraft time span therefore his fate would be irrelevent as he is not part of Warcraft while in a debate (unless OP specifies he is in Warcraft)

Devoid of the protection the rules of his timeline and fate gives him, he should be able to be technically killed. Although I still wonder how he escapes a paradox he himself creates by reviving himself, me thinks its a gameplay mechanic for the RPG.

Rapidash
We are not using his fated death as an argument in versus. That is quite fallacious. What we are using, is his ability to see his own death and prevent it according to the RPG rulebook.

We all know that Nozdormu's death is coming to him. In a versus however, we can not involve fate mechanics. All we have to rely on is his powers. It is specificly stated that he is able to undo his own death, into an outcome more to his liking.

Whatever fate holds for Nozdormu, it must be damn nasty when we know he is able to undo death but at the same time know that he WILL die.


What you need to remember, is that Nozdorm exist at multiple places at once. He can see his death with his own eyes, basically, since he observe the time lines while traveling them in seperate forms.

Burning thought
Well he may be able to prevent it by seeing it, afterall he does see through timelines. Although this is a difficut subject to discuss as he sees Warcrafts timelines, if he is in a place thats not Warcraft, can he see the timeline of that place or perhaps he will be blind to events? maybe he will still be observing the timeline of Warcraft, yet because he is not within it, he will not see anything worthy of noting in his fights.

Rapidash
That is the same debating technique as claiming Warcraft can not use magic in a versus unless the battle is specified to take place in that universe. Magicians summon magic through the Twisting Nether. A realm that does not exist outside Warcraft.

Claiming Nozdormu's power reduce on a neutral battlefield is the same thing.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Rapidash
That is the same debating technique as claiming Warcraft can not use magic in a versus unless the battle is specified to take place in that universe. Magicians summon magic through the Twisting Nether. A realm that does not exist outside Warcraft.

Claiming Nozdormu's power reduce on a neutral battlefield is the same thing.

Not sure about that since technically all characers take their powers from an outside source, i think its fair to assume they can use all their powers the same way they woud be able to use them in their own universe, what I am wondering is that do the rules of another universe also impact the characters in the VS even if their not part of that universe or if that universe is not part of the setting. I am not saying Noz loses power, simply loses aspects of said power.

Although technically his power is not being reduced, its the same, its just in practice his power may not be useful in such a sitation.

I think in this thread, characters can beat him if hes only allowed to "dust" one of them. If he cant use time freeze as well, it means he has few other powers available since those are his big unfair abilities that I have heard about anyway. I thought Q's intensions of the Noz fight were based around time powers being nullified as well as speeds, making the team have to fight on his terms but not with all his power.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Burning thought
Not sure about that since technically all characers take their powers from an outside source, i think its fair to assume they can use all their powers the same way they woud be able to use them in their own universe, what I am wondering is that do the rules of another universe also impact the characters in the VS even if their not part of that universe or if that universe is not part of the setting. I am not saying Noz loses power, simply loses aspects of said power.

Although technically his power is not being reduced, its the same, its just in practice his power may not be useful in such a sitation.

I think in this thread, characters can beat him if hes only allowed to "dust" one of them. If he cant use time freeze as well, it means he has few other powers available since those are his big unfair abilities that I have heard about anyway. I thought Q's intensions of the Noz fight were based around time powers being nullified as well as speeds, making the team have to fight on his terms but not with all his power.

Well, if Noz's powers work the same as in Warcraft universe, he would instantly become attuned to the new "universe's" timelines and see what was, is, and will be. Although I do understand how this can come in conflict with another universe's rules.

Burning thought
Is it possible for him to become "attuned" to a new timeline in another excistence? probably does not have a feat but it may be implied or there may be a logical explanation.

Rapidash
That is the primary problem. Seperate universes have seperate rules. Warcraft mages would not be able to cast spells without Twisting Nether if they were put in for example the Warhammer universe. Much like how Kain would not be the Sion of Balance in another universe, or how a Jedi would not be able to use the Force.

ares834
Originally posted by LLLLLink
It's not that. Its because team one has been potently nerfed to be unable to stomp.

For example, we know that the Master Sword prevents enemies from transforming Link against his will (in this case, dust). But, the rules of this thread allow the dragons to bypass these normal defenses.
Not at all. I am fairly certain the Master Sword only protects him from evil not magic in general.

Hell no. No way in hell unless he has the trueforce.

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by ares834

Hell no. No way in hell unless he has the trueforce.

The "Trueforce" didn't save Ganon from being sealed in the Dark World by the Knights of Hyrule and 7 wise men.

Burning thought
Apparently it didnt allow him to take over the world once he had turned the sacred realm into the dark one either. He still needed 10 bags of crisps and a few kegs of beer to bribe everyone into submission.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gBPNBVf4NMs/Swv1fgnDSwI/AAAAAAAABXs/eAutYos27lA/s1600/Cook%27s+Ham.jpg

ares834
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
The "Trueforce" didn't save Ganon from being sealed in the Dark World by the Knights of Hyrule and 7 wise men.
Good point... lol. And it was overpowered by the Master Sword.

ScreamPaste
Protip: The imprisoning war was retconned into OoT, and the 7 sages.

The master sword was there, moot point is moot.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Rapidash
We are not using his fated death as an argument in versus. That is quite fallacious. What we are using, is his ability to see his own death and prevent it according to the RPG rulebook.

We all know that Nozdormu's death is coming to him. In a versus however, we can not involve fate mechanics. All we have to rely on is his powers. It is specificly stated that he is able to undo his own death, into an outcome more to his liking.

Whatever fate holds for Nozdormu, it must be damn nasty when we know he is able to undo death but at the same time know that he WILL die.


What you need to remember, is that Nozdorm exist at multiple places at once. He can see his death with his own eyes, basically, since he observe the time lines while traveling them in seperate forms.

And speaking purely in theory Nozdormu is already dead.

Burning thought
http://chadt4.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/shocked-1.jpg

I just noticed only Kain gets debuffed against Malygos! wheres the love?!

Q'Anilia
It died somewhere back in another thread, can't specify which.

K1ll3r
I don't get it, none of them could hit Dante with any spell, they would be like "Ayyee, I'm a castin' my spell at Dante!" and Dante would be like "Nah brah I am over here!" *bang*.

Rapidash
Originally posted by K1ll3r
I don't get it, none of them could hit Dante with any spell, they would be like "Ayyee, I'm a castin' my spell at Dante!" and Dante would be like "Nah brah I am over here!" *bang*.

So you think Dante will solo?

Burning thought
I think they get to Nozdormu, then based on what unfair powers he is allowed he stomps, you cannot defend against sandstorms that have the ability to disinegrate you if a single grain of sand touches.

K1ll3r
up to 5th.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
It died somewhere back in another thread, can't specify which.

Infact I revoke that comment as you disadvantaged in one area and bettered him in others:

Originally posted by Q'Anilia

- Dargonax can not drain Kain

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Protip: The imprisoning war was retconned into OoT, and the 7 sages.

The master sword was there, moot point is moot.

I doubt it was retconned, otherwise it would be stated in one of the Zelda wikis.

There are problems with the Imprisoning War being OoT:

1. Ganon already claimed the whole Triforce. In OoT, Ganondorf was sealed into the sacred realm with just the Triforce of Power.

2. No Link was ever considered a knight other than LttP Link being of the bloodline.

3. The timeline where Ganondorf was sealed is an alternate timeline where Wind Waker takes place. It is not the same one that leads to the first three Zeldas and TP.

4. TP is the sequel to OoT and Ganondorf never gets sealed anywhere.

ScreamPaste
Here's where I point out:
1. Retcons change things
2. The Zelda timeline has never made sense.
3. TP ****s the whole timeline up more than evar.
4. It's actually very likely aLttP happens in the WW timeline, since TP ****ed up the other one, and it can't fit there at all anymore.

MooCowofJustice
I refuse to believe that ALttP is in the lame timeline. TP can just ****ing move, that PoS. mad

ares834
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I refuse to believe that ALttP is in the lame timeline. TP can just ****ing move, that PoS. mad
How is the WW timeline lame... It far more awesome.

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by ares834
How is the WW timeline lame... It far more awesome.

Because WW is all cartoony. It has always been criticized for that.

Phanteros
I like WW more than TP

MooCowofJustice
Originally posted by ares834
How is the WW timeline lame... It far more awesome.

It has Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Meanwhile, the opposite timeline has Majora's Mask.

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