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Who was the most powerful force wielder.

Darth Nihilus while the force energy of an entire species is still coursing his Sith Armor.

I have no interest in reading the 20+ novels that make up the entire New Jedi Order Series, maybe I can hear from someone who has if Luke really is all that.

Well Nihilus's known feat which we can quantify is his Mass TK of the Starship (since we don't know if the planet thing had prep etc.). So he evidently has some nice TK whereas Luke up to the end of NJO has a few neat tricks of his own including instant kill lightning and a great control of TK himself (His trick with the black hole).

Lightsaber wise I would say Luke has the edge since he was able to beat Palpatine at such an early stage of DE and he's done more since then. All Nihilus has to his name is is "one handed aggressive fighting style" which is the same as Luke in ESB.

I would say Luke takes this even at NJO.

Nihilus eats Luke.

'If you know what I mean'.

Luke definitely is better with sabers. He probably is pretty even with Nihilus with the Force, but I'd probably say he's better here too. Even if he isn't, his Force abilities are more than enough for him to be able to force a lightsaber fight, which he wins.

So Luke is indisputably the most powerful force wielder by the time of NJO?

Originally posted by \S//
So Luke is indisputably the most powerful force wielder by the time of NJO? No.

Originally posted by mattatom
No.

Well who is the most powerful force wielder?

Originally posted by \S//
Well who is the most powerful force wielder? Sidious.

Originally posted by mattatom
Sidious.

Empire's End Sidious maybe.

Originally posted by \\S//
Empire's End Sidious maybe. As of ROTS he was considered the most powerful sith.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
As of ROTS he was considered the most powerful sith.

Yeah but NJO Luke's a Jedi.

I could see Sidious as being superior by the time of Empire's End.

Luke is considered the most powerful duelist.

Originally posted by \\S//
Yeah but NJO Luke's a Jedi.

I could see Sidious as being superior by the time of Empire's End. You made this thread to find out who is the most powerful force user ever out of Luke or Nihilus, right? Well if Sidious is more powerful than Nihilus, wouldn't that mean Nihilus is not the most powerful.

DE Palpatine is arguable the most powerful person attuned to the Force. I doubt that NJO Luke could beat him--maybe LotF Luke, but less likely for NJO.


Nihilus one saving grace remains an Unknown ability. How long does his drain take to power up? What does it require of the victims (is it absolute unless you're a wound, or could someone as powerful as Palpatine block/deflect/absorb it, etc.)? His TK his wonderful, but again, against Palaptine, he'll only go so far with it.

He drained the Miralukan world rather fast, seeing as how they apparently didn't even have a chance to defend themselves.

But was he privately building up to that? He took his sweet bloody time at Telos, so one has to wonder.

Originally posted by \\S//
So Luke is indisputably the most powerful force wielder by the time of NJO?

Not quite.

Zonoma Sekot takes the cake. After that DE Sidious. Kyp Durron is up their with Luke as well. Raynar Thul when empowered by the Killicks is extremely powerful as well. Nyax was extremely powerful when he was over the ruins of the old Temple on Coruscant. Luke probably beats all but Sidious.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But was he privately building up to that? He took his sweet bloody time at Telos, so one has to wonder.

There was nothing at Telos for him to drain. That's why Kreia lead him there in the first place.

Originally posted by Autokrat
There was nothing at Telos for him to drain. That's why Kreia lead him there in the first place. Touche. Didn't he try it anyway?

Luke: Black Hole Manipulation is on par with the greatest feats. It doesn't undoubtedly surpass them. But its on par.

Originally posted by truejedi
Luke: Black Hole Manipulation is on par with the greatest feats. It doesn't undoubtedly surpass them. But its on par.

It should be the greatest display of TK ever.

Kyp did so more easily than Luke did.

that's what i'm saying. Black hole mass is as large as a system.

Luke also once held himself to a deck of a ship in a way that was quoted as "Even the giant black hole at the center of the galaxy couldn't have moved him." That is as or more impressive than any force storm, or Planet drain.

That was after NJO.

On the black holes, we have to remember that these were actually dovin basals. They merely controlled gravity in a manner that mimicked black holes. An entire solar system worth of matter did not actually just appear whenever a dovin basal was used.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
That was after NJO.

On the black holes, we have to remember that these were actually dovin basals. They merely controlled gravity in a manner that mimicked black holes. An entire solar system worth of matter did not actually just appear whenever a dovin basal was used.

How do you control gravity in a matter to mimic a black hole? If it mimics a black hole and therefore sucks in photons as well, then ergo is has ridiculous mass.

I don't know how it's supposedly done, but solar systems worth of matter cannot just appear and disappear at dozens of points around a ship simultaneously.

DG: the proton torpedoes didn't explode, they disappeared. Where did they go? Into the mass. I would say it is less likely that the mass WASN'T there, than that it was, since it behaved in such a way as though the mass was there. Otherwise we are talking tractor beam inside a big black spot, and that is incredibly pointless.

The mass is what attracted the torpedoes. Without the mass, you don't have a shield.

Originally posted by Autokrat
How do you control gravity in a matter to mimic a black hole? If it mimics a black hole and therefore sucks in photons as well, then ergo is has ridiculous mass.
It is feeable that if an atom was super condensed that it would create a very tiny Black Hole.

Where would that mass come from? Why didn't it tear the Vong ship apart instantly?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Where would that mass come from? Why didn't it tear the Vong ship apart instantly?

why didn't it tear apart any solar system it was in, instantly?

What?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Touche. Didn't he try it anyway?

I don't think we are ever told.

its a "micro-blackhole" (wookie... and yes, i despise myself for using it) Why didn't it destroy everything it was around? That is what an actual black hole would do. But its star wars. The Vong were able to focus it apparently.

Star wars has starship reactors that generate power in the yottawat ranges fairly easily.

The laws of physics must work differently.

Hell, they can violate the second law of thermodynamics even.

Darth_Glentract
Kyp did so more easily than Luke did.

Really?

If that's the case, it kind of disproves the notion that that particular feat is based on strength. Perhaps technique? Or frame of mind?

Something's up if Kyp Durron, who while prodigious is not confirmed to be quite on Skywalker's level in terms of Force attunement, is able to perform a technique with greater ease than a superior Force user.

crazy quotes about Durron right when Luke first discovered him though. Getting thrown across the room when Leia (who had Luke's force potential, remember) merely "pushed back?"

Jedi Academy trilogy is the source, i don't have it myself.

No offense but this is getting old. I think everyone here knows that by the time of NJO, practically no one can beat Luke. Unless its chuck norris... but thats another story

Originally posted by Gideon
Really?

If that's the case, it kind of disproves the notion that that particular feat is based on strength. Perhaps technique? Or frame of mind?

Something's up if Kyp Durron, who while prodigious is not confirmed to be quite on Skywalker's level in terms of Force attunement, is able to perform a technique with greater ease than a superior Force user.

After Kyp does the technique he is able to climb out of his X-wing and walk away. Luke was unable to lift himself off the shuttle bench. Kyp noted he had greater raw power to perform it. Also not what truejedi said.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Kyp noted he had greater raw power to perform it. Also not what truejedi said.

Pretty sure that Kyp saying that it took him more power to do it than it took Luke, as in it took him more effort. I'm pretty sure that mental note was deference to Luke.

Luke being tired after doing something for the first time isn't new either. It almost killed him the first time he cloaked the falcon. Later he does it to an entire planet with no visible strain.

Question - when Kyp was possessed by Exar Kun, could some of Exar's strengh in the Force remain in Kyp? Could that explain why he's so strong?

In what novel did Kyp manipulate the dovin basal? Luke does it in Dark Tide I.

I believe it was Dark Tide 2

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I believe it was Dark Tide 2

So does LS, but for the life of me I cannot find a reference to it. I'm using CTRL + F for "dovin basal" and looking for Kyp Durron's name, but I can't find it.

Darth Truculent
Question - when Kyp was possessed by Exar Kun, could some of Exar's strengh in the Force remain in Kyp? Could that explain why he's so strong?

Kyp's power really wasn't boosted by Exar Kun's in any real way; Kun merely unlocked Durron's own reserves of energy. When Durron defeated Skywalker, the line in Dark Apprentice reads:

"Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail."

It was merely Kun's knowledge, not his power, that enabled Durron to defeat Luke.

^I interpreted that the same was as Gideon.

Yeah, I still can't find it.

All I know is that a dovin basal is not the same thing as a black hole; the dovin basal merely creates artificial black holes. It's rather like saying that manipulating the firing mechanism for a nuclear warhead means that someone has power on par with its yield.

Furthermore, the dovin basal in question was powerful enough only to intercept missiles -- and Luke had to enter brief meditation in order to pull that off.

Not nearly as impressive as "LOL LUKE MANIPULATES BLACK WHOLES!"

He has far more impressive feats, imho.

I'll try and take a look for it sometime later. No promises though, the books are back at my parents house.

Darth_Glentract
I'll try and take a look for it sometime later. No promises though, the books are back at my parents house.

You have failed me, Glentract...

Don't suppose you have MSN or anything, do ya?

Originally posted by Gideon
"LOL, LUKE MANIPULATES BLACK HOLES!"



fixed

I was actually going to change one of the L's to an R, but figured that was going too far.

Wtf is juice? HAHAAHAH Chapelle is hilarious.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I was actually going to change one of the L's to an R, but figured that was going too far.

Ditto.

Darth_Glentract
I believe it was Dark Tide 2 Enemy Lines I: Rebel Dream.

I've posted the segment here at least once; I'd find it again if someone could point me back to the Russian site where we used to get our online text. swtimeline.ru doesn't seem to be.

Originally posted by Eminence
Enemy Lines I: Rebel Dream.

I've posted the segment here at least once; I'd find it again if someone could point me back to the Russian site where we used to get our online text. swtimeline.ru doesn't seem to be. Clicky.

Originally posted by Gideon
You have failed me, Glentract...

Don't suppose you have MSN or anything, do ya?

I used to have it and AIM. Haven't used either in years. I've been taking six classes the last two semesters and working 30 hours a week, so free time is pretty scarce.

mattatom
Clicky. There it is.

Well way to-f*cking-go, Kyp. Was that how tired Luke was afterward?

Luke was in worse shape.

check and mate i'd say. Only problem being the in-universe part of it. but still pretty darn convincing.