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Those who know where my loyalties lie, know who I voted for.

Kas'im or Windu.

Darth Bandon was on even terms with Revan, much like Windu and Dooku or Qel-Droma and Kun were on even terms, so what makes him so special?

Where is Yoda? pretty sure he would win this.

Originally posted by truejedi
Where is Yoda? pretty sure he would win this.

Windu took out Sidious faster than Yoda did when Sidious was in worse shape. Although that might have been because he was on a narrow senate pod where it would be harder for Yoda to outmaneuver him. But I'm pretty sure Windu was better than Yoda.

Originally posted by \\S//
Windu took out Sidious faster than Yoda did when Sidious was in worse shape. Although that might have been because he was on a narrow senate pod where it would be harder for Yoda to outmaneuver him. But I'm pretty sure Windu was better than Yoda.

remember though, we have canon quote that Yoda was the "greatest foe the darkness had ever known" and Yoda's fight with Sidious is often viewed as a stalemate. Since the quote comes AFTER windu's fight with yoda, we have proof that Yoda was greater than Windu and every other jedi that ever came before that fight.

Mace had the help of 3 other Jedi Masters in his duel with Sidious, and Sidious began his fight with Yoda by trying to escape.

Their CWC feats are very similar, but Yoda did hold up a MOUNTAIN, and pick up 2 CIS landing craft and slam them together.

Originally posted by \\S//
Darth Bandon was on even terms with Revan, much like Windu and Dooku or Qel-Droma and Kun were on even terms, so what makes him so special? HERETIC!!!!

Bandon is leagues above Revan and anyone else on this list.

Originally posted by ares834

Originally posted by \\S//
Darth Bandon was on even terms with Revan, much like Windu and Dooku or Qel-Droma and Kun were on even terms, so what makes him so special? HERETIC!!!!

Bandon is leagues above Revan and anyone else on this list.
Darth "Badass" Bandon is pleased.

Originally posted by ares834
HERETIC!!!!

Bandon is leagues above Revan and anyone else on this list.

This.

You've earned a

Revan. Enough said.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
This.

You've earned a

You're the second douche one who voted for Bandon right?

I don't vote for choices.

So no.

I voted for Yoda in my heart. However, this is a nice list for second place, except Sidious, Maul, and Dooku aren't on it. If they are not, why is Bandon there? Especially since //S\\ doesn't even seem to know about his joke deity status here.

TJ has convinced me to vote for Bandon.

ARGH!!!!

WHY DIDN'T I SEE KAS'IM??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!

own-ed. and double posting it up Red! Bam.

I voted for Tulak. "As children playing with toys," guys! Remember? Guys!

From Kreia, who spoke lies everytime she opened her mouth. Plus; How the heck would SHE know? Ms. Former Jedi turned Sith?

Guys! In-universe quote from mystic old woman, guys! Heart of the f*cking Force, guys! Revan's master, guys!


Guys!

Originally posted by truejedi
remember though, we have canon quote that Yoda was the "greatest foe the darkness had ever known" and Yoda's fight with Sidious is often viewed as a stalemate. Since the quote comes AFTER windu's fight with yoda, we have proof that Yoda was greater than Windu and every other jedi that ever came before that fight.

Mace had the help of 3 other Jedi Masters in his duel with Sidious, and Sidious began his fight with Yoda by trying to escape.

Their CWC feats are very similar, but Yoda did hold up a MOUNTAIN, and pick up 2 CIS landing craft and slam them together.

As you stated, Yoda does have insane Force powers, which could be what makes his the "greatest foe the darkness had ever known." Greatness also does not automatically translate to combat ability. I'm saying that Windu is necessarily better, but that to say Yoda is better just from what you gave I think is premature.

Out of these people I think it's probably Exar or Kas'im.

In pure KNOWN saber ability........... KNOWN, people...



Probably those two.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
As you stated, Yoda does have insane Force powers, which could be what makes his the "greatest foe the darkness had ever known." Greatness also does not automatically translate to combat ability. I'm saying that Windu is necessarily better, but that to say Yoda is better just from what you gave I think is premature.
The ROTS script does say Yoda managed to disarm Sidious...

And yet Windu make Sidious his *****...

Greater force ability almost always does translate into a combat ability though. Yoda defeated Dooku, twice, who was Mace's equal.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
And yet Windu make Sidious his *****...
Only because of the bonus provided by Vaapad. Otherwise he would have been on his ass. Not to mention Sidious could have taken him with his lightning.

it was actually shatterpoint that gave Windu the win, just saying. They were absolutely equal when he was just using Vapaad.

Originally posted by truejedi
it was actually shatterpoint that gave Windu the win, just saying. They were absolutely equal when he was just using Vapaad.
Really? I thought Sidious's shatterpoin was Anakin...

his other shatterpoint was the window-sill actually. Windu sensed where to take the fight to.

Originally posted by ares834
Only because of the bonus provided by Vaapad. Otherwise he would have been on his ass. Not to mention Sidious could have taken him with his lightning.

Oh, you mean the lightning that Mace was deflecting back into Sidious' face?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Oh, you mean the lightning that Mace was deflecting back into Sidious' face?
Novel says Mace couldn't hold it any longer and GL says that Sidious faked losing his powers...

yeah... that whole lightning in the face thing seemed to suck more for sidious more than it did mace.

Originally posted by ares834
Novel says Mace couldn't hold it any longer and GL says that Sidious faked losing his powers...

Source for these claims?

Shadow Hunter depicts Mace musing that Yoda's skills with a lightsaber were "second to none" on the Jedi Council. Dark Rendezvous suggests that Windu and Dooku are equals in terms of skill, with Yoda above both of them.

He faked being old man, unable to continue weak. That is all.

He could have continued to fry himself. He certainly wasn't going to win, not with Mace armed, and Sidious lying on his back being fried. He just faked being unable to continue. (continue a fight that would have resulted in his death)

Gideon, that's true. I'll buy into that.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Source for these claims?
The GL quote is in the ROTS Commentary.
From the Novel.
"Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. 'Anakin, he's too strong for me-'"
and
" Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade."

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Source for these claims?

RotS novel, and I think the Ep. 3 commentary. But, Mace still whupped his ass and had him at his mercy. If he had chosen to, he would have killed Sids had not Anakin interfered.

Damnit that was fast.

Originally posted by ares834
The GL quote is in the ROTS Commentary.
From the Novel.
"Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. 'Anakin, he's too strong for me-'"
and
" Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade."

When I watched the ROTS commentary I never heard that. Granted, it has been a long time, but I'm fairly certain I would have remembered something as significant as that.

Yoda, Dooku, and Windu were all seasoned swordsmen who had the opportunity to maintain their skills over the decades. Comparing them to Palpatine isn't favorable; Sidious's lightsabers were locked in a statue in his office -- the RotS novelization outright says that the lightsaber had been "waiting in darkness for decades."

In strict skill with a lightsaber, Sidious probably wasn't as good as any of them, though he still retained enough ability to overwhelm most.

GL said SIdious faked being able to continue. He didn't fake losing the fight, and even if he HAD continued, all factors seem to be for him losing anyway.

Originally posted by truejedi
GL said SIdious faked being able to continue. He didn't fake losing the fight, and even if he HAD continued, all factors seem to be for him losing anyway.

This is more like what I remembered.

Originally posted by truejedi
GL said SIdious faked being able to continue. He didn't fake losing the fight, and even if he HAD continued, all factors seem to be for him losing anyway.

You are correct... SIR!!!

Originally posted by truejedi
GL said SIdious faked being able to continue.
Never said any diffrent. I said he faked losing his powers which is what GL said.

How? The Novel clearly states Mace was unable to continue blocking Sidious's lightning.

it says "This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade."

then Mace says: "Take him. It's your destiny." Skywalker says "Destiny..."
Mace says" Help me! I can't hold him any longer!"
Sidious says "He is killing me, ANakin--! Please Anaaahhhhh"
AAAAAHHHHHH!"

THEN SIDIOUS QUITS

Clearly the quote saying: "Mace couldn't fight against his own blade" is in error. Otherwise it would go "mace had no strength to fight against his own blade, then mace's blade went into his face killing him."

Also, all Mace had to do was step back from the source of the lightning (sidious) and the force on his blade would have decreased exponentially. Mace wasn't going to lose. He might have been forced to allow Sidious his feet. That was all.

Nah. He has no strength anymore to hold his blade in place. The blade is getting pushed up into his face. In fact when Sidious quits it says "Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone."
Originally posted by truejedi Also, all Mace had to do was step back from the source of the lightning (sidious) and the force on his blade would have decreased exponentially. Mace wasn't going to lose. He might have been forced to allow Sidious his feet. That was all.
Applying real world physics to the force, or SW in general, simply does not work. Force Lightning =/= Real Lightning.

Originally posted by ares834
Nah. He has no strength anymore to hold his blade in place. The blade is getting pushed up into his face. In fact when Sidious quits it says "Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone."


nope: Pg. 333, 334

There is a paragraph of dialogue after the "Mace had no strength left" line.

Originally posted by truejedi
nope: Pg. 333, 334

There is a paragraph of dialogue after the "Mace had no strength left" line.
I get what your saying. But the quote means he is no longer able to hold his blade in place thus it is slowly sliping toward his face.

free to your opinion i suppose. The worst thing that could happen here is A. Mace steps back (as i said) and distance does make a difference with force lightning, or else it would never shove someone away.
B. Mace gets hit for a moment by lightning that took many minutes to kill Luke. (and even then, he got up, and back to 100 percent in moments) then recovers and kills sidious


All good cases all end with sidious chopped in half, or falling out a window.

I still can't see a scenario, even if mace were forced to step away from the lightning, where sidious is going to be able to get enough of an advantage to win this fight.

Sidious did not want to kill Luke right away. He wanted Luke to suffer.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sidious did not want to kill Luke right away. He wanted Luke to suffer.

proof?

Originally posted by truejedi
proof? Well the fact that Sidious kept pausing and I believe it is in the novel. I'll get back to you on that one.

k. cause just pausing could be construed as weakness.

Well Sidious was able to kill something like 50 stormtroopers at once in one of the comics between ROTS and A New Hope. Stands to reason that he could kill one person instantly if he wanted.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well Sidious was able to kill something like 50 stormtroopers at once in one of the comics between ROTS and A New Hope. Stands to reason that he could kill one person instantly if he wanted.

Pretty sure Luke and Mace =/= stormtroopers.

Also, Sidious reduced three dark prophets (using one hand) to charred bones.

Sidious was taunting Luke. He wanted to teach him a lesson before killing him. Sidious would pause the attack and say a few lines and then attack again. Cleary he was not going for the kill right away.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Also, Sidious reduced three dark prophets (using one hand) to charred bones.

Sidious was taunting Luke. He wanted to teach him a lesson before killing him. Sidious would pause the attack and say a few lines and then attack again. Cleary he was not going for the kill right away. This fits in perfectly with RotJ Palpatine. In most other incarnations, he's clever enough to pull off a Xantaos' Gambit (thank you Ven for TV Tropes), but as of RotJ, everything was in the freaking bag for him, and he let his overconfidence and arrogance bring him down. Ewoks, Vader, and in a sense, Luke. If he had killed him outright then Vader likely wouldn't have turned, but he just had to savor his victory over the last Jedi threat.

so circumstantial evidence is what you have then? (since luke wasn't the last jedi threat?)

Not the last Jedi, the last threat they posed. None of the surviving ones had the potential and capacity that Luke did. I doubt very, very much, that Luke, writhing in agony and pleading for his father's assistance, was offering up some sort of mental resistance that was slowing down the lethality of the most powerful Sith Lord's lightning.

Originally posted by truejedi
Pretty sure Luke and Mace =/= stormtroopers.

what does =/= mean? does that mean not equal to?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
what does =/= mean? does that mean not equal to?

yes.

oh.

that statements wrong then!

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
oh.

that statements wrong then!

Which statement are you referring to? There are two in this thread that use =/=.

How so?

i was being facetious <3

although if the statement about luke and mace being =/= to stormtroopers is in reference to their force abilities that would be true but they are not more durable than a stormtrooper if lightning physically touches their body they would die just as easily as a stormtrooper... probably easier considering troopers at least have armor.

This is... one of the most embarrassing series of posts I've ever had the chance to read... which is surprising since the guy behind them all isn't a complete retard. TJ, WTF man?

Luke was not back to optimum level of performance; Truce of Bakura and other sources note that Luke was severely injured by the extent of Palpatine's Sith lightning days later.

Palpatine's swagger and constant pauses to deliver megalomaniacal ramblings convince me (and anyone with full command of their mental faculties) that he clearly wasn't in any particular hurry to smite his "feeble" enemy. And how exactly can those pauses be construed as weakness? If you mean psychological weakness (i.e. hubris) then we're in agreement. But if you're suggesting that Palpatine had to recharge his Force-driven battery to attack Luke...

Originally posted by Gideon






This is... one of the most embarrassing series of posts I've ever had the chance to read... which is surprising since the guy behind them all isn't a complete retard. TJ, WTF man?

Luke was not back to optimum level of performance; Truce of Bakura and other sources note that Luke was severely injured by the extent of Palpatine's Sith lightning days later.

Palpatine's swagger and constant pauses to deliver megalomaniacal ramblings convince me (and anyone with full command of their mental faculties) that he clearly wasn't in any particular hurry to smite his "feeble" enemy. And how exactly can those pauses be construed as weakness? If you mean psychological weakness (i.e. hubris) then we're in agreement. But if you're suggesting that Palpatine had to recharge his Force-driven battery to attack Luke...

lol, i've stopped being argumentative Gideon.

My own assessment is that he was toying with Luke. I asked for proof from... (can't remember whoever now) for the heck of it, because i realized there are few quotes supporting the common-sense take on this. You notice i asked everything in questions?

The fun way of not taking a stand.

So yeah, I pretty much agree with you completely of your assessment of the fight. Looking for proof though. Truce of Bakura is a good starting point. I forgot that spoke about Luke recovering from injury.

You going to be around? or just passing through?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Not the last Jedi, the last threat they posed. None of the surviving ones had the potential and capacity that Luke did. I doubt very, very much, that Luke, writhing in agony and pleading for his father's assistance, was offering up some sort of mental resistance that was slowing down the lethality of the most powerful Sith Lord's lightning.

I'm thinking Leia had the same force-potential as Luke. It even caused Vader to almost dismiss Luke as unimportant.

In all honesty lucien, you and me both on Sidious toying with Luke. Fun to debate though, because we all assume it, without a whole lot of actual quotable evidence.

Perhaps, but considering what we have seen him do with his Lightning, it's a very justifiable assumption.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
(thank you Ven for TV Tropes)

Forever Damned... to be a critic.

I'd definetely say Kas'im

Originally posted by Autokrat
Forever Damned... to be a critic. I almost started going that route. Had to stop before Dragonball Z stopped being the most intelligent and creative show to grace the airwaves.

Originally posted by Samurai100
I'd definetely say Kas'im

I'd definitely say you're a retard. Kas'im is a sub par duelist; he couldn't take anyone more than Darth Maul.

maul is one of the best duelists of the mythos noobslice

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
maul is one of the best duelists of the mythos noobslice

Well no shit, you little ass clown. I was comparing him to Maul because Maul is not the best. I'd put the likes of Revan or Kenobi over him, and then Luke and Yoda over them.

wtf? noob. maul would handle obi-wan, revan, and yoda their asses all at the same time

so stupid!

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
wtf? noob. maul would handle obi-wan, revan, and yoda their asses all at the same time

so stupid!

Not revan.

dude.

anoon badass banderas, antonio banderas older brother, was the most skilled lightsaber user ever in the history forever and shit. maul beat anoon badass banderas, so he is now the best lightsaber duelist in history of the forever. also force storm, he can use that to. hello? deadliest sith apprentice? obviously that translates into him being more than match for anyone. plus hes a master of juyo omgbutseks

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
dude.

anoon badass banderas, antonio banderas older brother, was the most skilled lightsaber user ever in the history forever and shit. maul beat anoon badass banderas, so he is now the best lightsaber duelist in history of the forever. also force storm, he can use that to. hello? deadliest sith apprentice? obviously that translates into him being more than match for anyone. plus hes a master of juyo omgbutseks ...






HA!

Ms. Marvel, you have gone the way of Mattatom and bandon? Please get ahold of yourself!

dur

Originally posted by nebaris2.0
I'd definitely say you're a retard. Kas'im is a sub par duelist; he couldn't take anyone more than Darth Maul.
Kas'im had mastered all styles and was undefeated in single combat.
Bane thought him to be the most skilled lightsaber duelist of his time

im pretty sure it was never stated that he was "undefeated. ever."

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Kas'im .

Were you high dude?

Kas'im being tied for number 1 is disturbimg.

In terms of skill it might well be him, yes.

Bandon is the only guy, who might be able to took away from Kas'im the title of the worst duelist of this thread.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Kas'im being tied for number 1 is disturbimg.


How so?

Make your case. I'd love to hear.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Kas'im being tied for number 1 is disturbimg.


How so?

Make your case. I'd love to hear.

The Hero of Tython should get a nod, I think. She's apparently never lost a duel, defeating all her lightsaber masters before the game began. And is referred to as the greatest fighter in the order, peerless, legendarily skilled and blah blah blah.

Of course, Hord is the real answer to this thread but whatever.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
How so?

Make your case. I'd love to hear.

Sure.
A tl;dr version, or a smaller version that even the laziest person could read?

Neph, this thread was 5 years ago, with The Hero not even existing. Certainly not in this thread.

If we're discussing technical skill then Kasim is at the top, but ability with a saber overall, no. Mace would be number one in this thread.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Neph, this thread was 5 years ago, with The Hero not even existing. Certainly not in this thread.

If we're discussing technical skill then Kasim is at the top, but ability with a saber overall, no. Mace would be number one in this thread.

I know. I don't see anything wrong with adding new characters and info for consideration, however.

Tulak Hord is still the best tho.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Sure.
A tl;dr version, or a smaller version that even the laziest person could read?


Which ever works best. I'm lazy, so.....

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Sure.
A tl;dr version, or a smaller version that even the laziest person could read?


Which ever works best. I'm lazy, so.....

Originally posted by Nephthys
I know. I don't see anything wrong with adding new characters and info for consideration, however.

Tulak Hord is still the best tho.


Well then Yoda for sure.

Oh, BTW, how big was the ship Hord pulled down?

A bit over 300 meters.

Bad spot. My phone is trippin'.

Tulak Hord took on a thousand Jedi by himself and won.

Who do you think wins?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Tulak Hord took on a thousand Jedi by himself and won.

Who do you think wins?


Yoda.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Tulak Hord took on a thousand Jedi by himself and won.

Who do you think wins?


Yoda.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda. Mace Windu, and Tulak Hord are both above Yoda in terms of raw Lightsaber Combat.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Mace Windu, and Tulak Hord are both above Yoda in terms of raw Lightsaber Combat.

https://41.media.tumblr.com/05adb413b43b1ef86d131bc944494aca/tumblr_inline_ntxfvpELgM1scrpba_540.jpg

Originally posted by \\S//
Windu took out Sidious faster than Yoda did when Sidious was in worse shape. Although that might have been because he was on a narrow senate pod where it would be harder for Yoda to outmaneuver him. But I'm pretty sure Windu was better than Yoda.

Windu was unusually amped by Vaapad. Without the amp he would of gotten speed blitzed like the other three masters.