How much stronger is Superboy Prime than Superman

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quanchi112
Thoughts?

Badabing
Warned.

Closed.

facepalm

ares834
In before the lock!

Badabing
I was just messing with Quan. laughing out loud


I would like to see some SBP feats though. I'm too lazy to look myself.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Badabing
Warned.

Closed.

facepalm laughing out loud I'm in a Prime mood.

Mindset
1/4

rotiart
Krypto ftw

quanchi112
Originally posted by rotiart
Krypto ftw What?

JakeTheBank
Hmmm.

In all honesty, I don't see the gap between them being *too* great. Granted, Prime is basically a "silver age Kryptonian", but the fact that he's without restraint certainly helps. I'd say Prime begins by default stronger, faster, and more durable than Supes, but if Superman ever went crazy/emo, he would be able to rival Prime in certain aspects. I'm personally of the opinion that Superman is steadily increasing his Pre-Crisis levels anyway. And this is, of course, without factoring in the Guardian Amp.

quanchi112
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hmmm.

In all honesty, I don't see the gap between them being *too* great. Granted, Prime is basically a "silver age Kryptonian", but the fact that he's without restraint certainly helps. I'd say Prime begins by default stronger, faster, and more durable than Supes, but if Superman ever went crazy/emo, he would be able to rival Prime in certain aspects. I'm personally of the opinion that Superman is steadily increasing his Pre-Crisis levels anyway. And this is, of course, without factoring in the Guardian Amp. I disagree. Prime's shown himself to be his superior and shrug him off like a minor irritant. I think he's definitely stronger than him. We've seen Superman not hold back at all against WW. I think Prime would have wrecked her in moments to which she would stay down.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree. Prime's shown himself to be his superior and shrug him off like a minor irritant. I think he's definitely stronger than him. We've seen Superman not hold back at all against WW. I think Prime would have wrecked her in moments to which she would stay down.

Oh, I'm not saying Prime isn't his superior; even if Superman went balls-to-the-walls, Prime would still be > than him, but the gap isn't that large as to claim it would be a spite in favor of Prime. Essentially every fight with Prime is a clusterf*ck, with various people getting in the way. And when Superman is directly involved, he's trying to either reach through to Prime, worried about the people around him, or dealing with other circumstances.

Look at the Ion/Prime battle for example. Prime, obviously, won the match. And yet a rookie Ion did better against Prime (refueled naturally by the sun) than the combined efforts of DC Earth. It seems to me anyway, one super strong character vs. Prime stands a better chance than an assembled host of heroes against him.

Mindset
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And yet a rookie Ion did better against Prime (refueled naturally by the sun) than the combined efforts of DC Earth. Of course, he had the power of Kyle Rayner.

He never actually got the Ion power, the power he got was from being in the presence of the greatest hero in comic history.

quanchi112
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Oh, I'm not saying Prime isn't his superior; even if Superman went balls-to-the-walls, Prime would still be > than him, but the gap isn't that large as to claim it would be a spite in favor of Prime. Essentially every fight with Prime is a clusterf*ck, with various people getting in the way. And when Superman is directly involved, he's trying to either reach through to Prime, worried about the people around him, or dealing with other circumstances.

Look at the Ion/Prime battle for example. Prime, obviously, won the match. And yet a rookie Ion did better against Prime (refueled naturally by the sun) than the combined efforts of DC Earth. It seems to me anyway, one super strong character vs. Prime stands a better chance than an assembled host of heroes against him. I disagree.


An entire pack of heroes is more effective against Prime than Ion was. Prime just beat the crap out of him and was in no real danger. I think Superman has benefited big time from the battle distractions against Prime more than the other way around.

How much stronger would you say then if both are balls to the wall.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree.


An entire pack of heroes is more effective against Prime than Ion was. Prime just beat the crap out of him and was in no real danger. I think Superman has benefited big time from the battle distractions against Prime more than the other way around.

How much stronger would you say then if both are balls to the wall.

No prob, I can see how one would believe the opposite as it is open to debate.

Ion managed to deal damage to Prime, and until the lead poisoning, was holding his own against him. Let's face it, Prime's durability is often suspect as Conner Kent is able to damage him. You know how people (including myself, as I've mentioned it before) say that Thanos durability >> his damage output? I'd say the opposite holds true for Prime. Prime has been shown to be hurt pretty often, but he either regens quickly enough or, more likely, he has a low pain threshold while having a high durability if that makes sense. He feels pain a lot more easily, but he's less prone to being KOed or seriously harmed.

If both we're going at it, 110% effort, bloodlusted, Prime is at least twice as strong as him still.

King Kandy
If you mean the horde that was beating on him before Ion came out, he was weakened from lack of sunlight at the time and once the sun came out he easily beat their asses.

quanchi112
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No prob, I can see how one would believe the opposite as it is open to debate.

Ion managed to deal damage to Prime, and until the lead poisoning, was holding his own against him. Let's face it, Prime's durability is often suspect as Conner Kent is able to damage him. You know how people (including myself, as I've mentioned it before) say that Thanos durability >> his damage output? I'd say the opposite holds true for Prime. Prime has been shown to be hurt pretty often, but he either regens quickly enough or, more likely, he has a low pain threshold while having a high durability if that makes sense. He feels pain a lot more easily, but he's less prone to being KOed or seriously harmed.

If both we're going at it, 110% effort, bloodlusted, Prime is at least twice as strong as him still. I think that's just inconsistent writing and considering he just came back you knew Prime wasn't going to easily trash him even though he could.

I also think He was just enjoying himself while he mopped the floor up with Ion.


You're free to have those opinions, but I just disagree with them. I think with Prime he's just an emotional mess because he's an immature kid but it's hard to say superboy's hv is greater than Black Adam's punches wouldn't you agree?
Ok, from your post earlier I thought you viewed them a lot closer than that.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by quanchi112
I think that's just inconsistent writing and considering he just came back you knew Prime wasn't going to easily trash him even though he could.

I also think He was just enjoying himself while he mopped the floor up with Ion.


You're free to have those opinions, but I just disagree with them. I think with Prime he's just an emotional mess because he's an immature kid but it's hard to say superboy's hv is greater than Black Adam's punches wouldn't you agree?
Ok, from your post earlier I thought you viewed them a lot closer than that.

It could be inconsistent writing, but in Infinite Crisis and SCW alike, lesser heroes were able to make Prime cry out in pain, but at the same token unable to deal lasting damage. It could also be psychological in nature because Prime himself obviously has a fragile psyche.

Batman-Prime
Prime is about 3 time stronger then regular Superman. Though an all out (not mindcontrolled) "save the universe no matter what" Superman should be his equal if not his superior.

-Pr-
At base levels, Prime is stronger.

sans mental blocks/holding back, though, they're about even imo.

psycho gundam
nah

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
nah

yes.

Warlord
Prime seems to be clearly above Superman. Just finished re-reading Infinite Crisis what do you expect me to say smile

Slaanesh
Prime is way more powerful

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Warlord
Prime seems to be clearly above Superman.

Philosophía
Originally posted by -Pr-
At base levels, Prime is stronger.

sans mental blocks/holding back, though, they're about even imo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Prime is about 3 time stronger then regular Superman. Though an all out (not mindcontrolled) "save the universe no matter what" Superman should be his equal if not his superior. You've got to be joking here. Equal if not superior? Based on what showings.

xJLxKing
Prime is much stronger then Regular Superman. Without holding back whatsoever, Prime is still stronger, but it's a lot closer

Omega Vision
Based on the book lifting feat in Final Crisis I honestly believe Superman's physical strength is a mental contrivance and that he is as strong as he needs to be but at the same time he keeps his strength in check. That would explain how he can cuddle with his wife Lois without crushing her into paste and why as Clark Kent he isn't constantly breaking things.

I think his gradual increase in strength to near-PC levels is a reflection of him getting better at controlling his strength and thus being able to relax his mental blocks (also it helps that he's absorbing more solar power with time).

Anyway I believe that at their base levels Prime isn't really much stronger, he just has less mental restrictions and is much better at using his strength (as shown by him pushing entire planets, something which for the most part Current Superman doesn't do).

Still in a practical sense Prime's strength seems to be 3x greater than Superman's.

xJLxKing
In his recent encounter against a fellow Kryptonian, Superman loses his powers, but his anger is immense. He then replies, "This is when I am most dangerous."

KuRuPT Thanosi
Prime is certainly stronger but when Supes lets go... they are relatively close. Close enough that Supes can hang in a fight with him for a good period of time.

Allankles
He's a fraction stronger than Supes. There isn't a huge difference between the two, it also helps that he uses lethal force.

Q99
Superman in save-the-world mode may find a *way to win*, but he's definitely not near as strong. Plenty of Kryptonian types don't hold back and are willing to use lethal force, and still aren't near the threat of Prime.

Remember, Sodam Yat had Daxamite strength + bolstered by the ring x Ion which is a power multiplier. All in all, I'd expect him to be something like four times stronger than a normal Daxamite/kryptonian.

Allankles
Sodam Yat was poisoned through most of that fight. He was struggling with his own health just as much as with SBP.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Q99
Superman in save-the-world mode may find a *way to win*, but he's definitely not near as strong. Plenty of Kryptonian types don't hold back and are willing to use lethal force, and still aren't near the threat of Prime.

Remember, Sodam Yat had Daxamite strength + bolstered by the ring x Ion which is a power multiplier. All in all, I'd expect him to be something like four times stronger than a normal Daxamite/kryptonian.
Not all Kryptonians are the same. The same way how Humans are not the same.

Also, Superman is a descendant of Rao

sushi&toast
i dont know about superman but he is 3 times stronger then thor thats for sure

Galan007
Superman:

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4333/98460706.th.jpg


Superboy Prime:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7079/46365648.th.jpg http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1037/71030623.th.jpg



'Nuff said. shifty

Bentley
Well, Super Man Prime can beat anyone in any level and be invincible, ripping away reality with his fists and becoming an stupid plot device. So its just a little bit stronger than regular Superman.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
Superman:

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4333/98460706.th.jpg


Superboy Prime:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7079/46365648.th.jpg http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1037/71030623.th.jpg



'Nuff said. shifty Eat Penis, Galan.

You'll lose in the tourney.

xJLxKing
^ didn't you also confused

Hehe

Original Smurph
Originally posted by Philosophía
Eat Penis, Galan.


Originally posted by xJLxKing
^ didn't you also confused

Hehe

mmm

xJLxKing
laughing out loud

Philosophía
Originally posted by xJLxKing
^ didn't you also confused

Hehe Officially, yes.

Original Smurph
Originally posted by Philosophía
Eat Penis, Galan.


Originally posted by xJLxKing
^ didn't you also confused

Hehe

Originally posted by Philosophía
Officially, yes.

mmm

Philosophía
Originally posted by Original Smurph
mmm

Originally posted by Bentley
My vote is for Id and KK, very good match you all, was a very fun read.

Original Smurph
I agree, Bentley's judgements are mmm worthy.

Philosophía
At least he managed to not get stuck at your first argument.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Original Smurph
mmm laughing

kgkg
Prime

Q99
Control over super strength is common, and almost all characters have it. Wonder Woman can even spar with nonpowers while keeping her strength in check.

It doesn't mean his strength is a mental contrivance he can set at any level, it just means he can decide how much of the strength he does have he applies.


Originally posted by xJLxKing
Not all Kryptonians are the same. The same way how Humans are not the same.

Yes, but Superman vs other Kryptonians tend to have him a bit stronger at most, if he beats two Kryptonian types it's due almost entirely due to skill, not a significant raw power edge. Superman is not several times above Kryptonians. Superboy is.

Galan007
Originally posted by Philosophía
Eat Penis, Galan.

You'll lose in the tourney. Heh, luf u2. bashful

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, luf u2. bashful

I don't.

I'm in it soley for the sex.

Galan007
uhuh

Bentley
Originally posted by Original Smurph
I agree, Bentley's judgements are mmm worthy.

galan_buu

rotiart
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Based on the book lifting feat in Final Crisis I honestly believe Superman's physical strength is a mental contrivance and that he is as strong as he needs to be but at the same time he keeps his strength in check. That would explain how he can cuddle with his wife Lois without crushing her into paste and why as Clark Kent he isn't constantly breaking things.

I think his gradual increase in strength to near-PC levels is a reflection of him getting better at controlling his strength and thus being able to relax his mental blocks (also it helps that he's absorbing more solar power with time).

Anyway I believe that at their base levels Prime isn't really much stronger, he just has less mental restrictions and is much better at using his strength (as shown by him pushing entire planets, something which for the most part Current Superman doesn't do).

Still in a practical sense Prime's strength seems to be 3x greater than Superman's.

I'm not sure where you get the book feat as proof of strength...infinite pages in a magical book does not mean the book has infinite mass..

Omega Vision
Originally posted by rotiart
I'm not sure where you get the book feat as proof of strength...infinite pages in a magical book does not mean the book has infinite mass..
You're right, it doesn't mean it. But it does heavily imply it. Every story possible=infinite stories=infinite mass in one small space.

JakeTheBank
^ Even if said "infinite pages" didn't translate into "infinite mass", it's still an absurd amount to lift.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Based on the book lifting feat in Final Crisis I honestly believe Superman's physical strength is a mental contrivance and that he is as strong as he needs to be but at the same time he keeps his strength in check. That would explain how he can cuddle with his wife Lois without crushing her into paste and why as Clark Kent he isn't constantly breaking things.

I think his gradual increase in strength to near-PC levels is a reflection of him getting better at controlling his strength and thus being able to relax his mental blocks (also it helps that he's absorbing more solar power with time).

Anyway I believe that at their base levels Prime isn't really much stronger, he just has less mental restrictions and is much better at using his strength (as shown by him pushing entire planets, something which for the most part Current Superman doesn't do).

Still in a practical sense Prime's strength seems to be 3x greater than Superman's. He wasn't as strong as he needed to be in fc. He needed another character to lift the book so by all accounts he's just as strong as Marvel which I've always said. If his strength went as high as he needed it to he wouldn't have needed Marvel.


Prime is much stronger than both and has shown a vast strength difference against Superman.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't as strong as he needed to be in fc. He needed another character to lift the book so by all accounts he's just as strong as Marvel which I've always said. If his strength went as high as he needed it to he wouldn't have needed Marvel.


Prime is much stronger than both and has shown a vast strength difference against Superman.
Ultraman managed to lift it by himself.

JakeTheBank
I personally wish that it was mainstream Captain Marvel (Billy) who was involved in Final Crisis.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I personally wish that it was mainstream Captain Marvel (Billy) who was involved in Final Crisis.
They had the whole Multiverse thing going on, he was Earth-5's Superman.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Ultraman managed to lift it by himself. The point is your theory goes out the window because he needed help. Galan put up two scans showing the enormous difference. Prime's a lot stronger than Superman.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Omega Vision
They had the whole Multiverse thing going on, he was Earth-5's Superman.

I didn't really care for that to be honest. CM already has a lot of flack as a "Superman clone" and I think he's done enough to be able to stand on his own two feet without being considered to be the "magic version of Supes". Still, it was cool to at least have one version of CM treated with respect and as a peer to Superman.

horrorwolf
roughly 2-3 times than an unamped Superman who is generally holding back.

quanchi112
Originally posted by horrorwolf
roughly 2-3 times than an unamped Superman who is generally holding back. Glad to see you again. What if he isn't holding back?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I didn't really care for that to be honest. CM already has a lot of flack as a "Superman clone" and I think he's done enough to be able to stand on his own two feet without being considered to be the "magic version of Supes". Still, it was cool to at least have one version of CM treated with respect and as a peer to Superman.
The point was the concept of the Superman as shown by Captain Allen Adam who despite being even more different than Captain Marvel was still seen as his Universe's Superman.
Superman represented the core of what a superhero is, Captain Marvel represented the lighter, innocent kind of superhero, Ultraman the dark and gritty side of superhero comics, Overman...I'm not sure, I guess he showed that no matter what world he lands on (even a Nazi world) Superman is Superman, Allen Adam of course represented the ultimate concept of the Supraman, the Ubermensch, a being beyond good and evil.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The point was the concept of the Superman as shown by Captain Allen Adam who despite being even more different than Captain Marvel was still seen as his Universe's Superman.
Superman represented the core of what a superhero is, Captain Marvel represented the lighter, innocent kind of superhero, Ultraman the dark and gritty side of superhero comics, Overman...I'm not sure, I guess he showed that no matter what world he lands on (even a Nazi world) Superman is Superman, Allen Adam of course represented the ultimate concept of the Supraman, the Ubermensch, a being beyond good and evil.

I will have to look into this .. "Superman as shown by Captain Allen Adam" can you tell me what series or book he was in?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Lord Feron
I will have to look into this .. "Superman as shown by Captain Allen Adam" can you tell me what series or book he was in?
Final Crisis: Superman Beyond. It really helps to read the FC Annotations on the web and some of Morrison's interviews. The more you analyze Final Crisis the less it seems like the work of a crack head and the more it seems like a brilliant literary achievement.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Final Crisis: Superman Beyond. It really helps to read the FC Annotations on the web and some of Morrison's interviews. The more you analyze Final Crisis the less it seems like the work of a crack head and the more it seems like a brilliant literary achievement.

I agree with that much. The first time I read Final Crisis, I was like "WTF is this shit? And why did I pay for it?". But after doing some independent research and re-reading it (lot's of re-reading), I can honestly say I appreciate it a lot more now than I did when it first came out.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Final Crisis: Superman Beyond. It really helps to read the FC Annotations on the web and some of Morrison's interviews. The more you analyze Final Crisis the less it seems like the work of a crack head and the more it seems like a brilliant literary achievement.


Alwaays did find FC to be quite wildly imaginative. But i will look into what you say.

Mindset
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Final Crisis: Superman Beyond. It really helps to read the FC Annotations on the web and some of Morrison's interviews. The more you analyze Final Crisis the less it seems like the work of a crack head and the more it seems like a brilliant literary achievement. No, it's crap.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Mindset
No, it's crap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsogswrH6ck

OneDumbG0
Superman never lets himself go unlike Superboy Prime. So taking that into account, Superboy Prime is quite a bit stronger.

quanchi112
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman never lets himself go unlike Superboy Prime. So taking that into account, Superboy Prime is quite a bit stronger. Even if he goes all out I don't see him anywhere near Prime and no showing to suggest as much.

OneDumbG0
^ You'd be wrong.

But we forgive you (for the most part).

quanchi112
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You'd be wrong.

But we forgive you (for the most part). No, actually I wouldn't. this isn't the first time you claimed something and couldn't deliver ya know.

OneDumbG0
^ Yuh-huh. Don't project your own erectile dysfunction onto me, kid. crackers

Also, this wouldn't be the first time you didn't read the comics of the characters you're arguing for. And certainly not the last.

quanchi112
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Yuh-huh. Don't project your own erectile dysfunction onto me, kid. crackers

Also, this wouldn't be the first time you didn't read the comics of the characters you're arguing for. And certainly not the last. And this wouldn't be the first time you were incorrect about something. I let you off the hook when you posted Thor's hammer strike sending shockwaves throughout the planet as you completely left out the context behind the scene and the feat. You're wrong all the time on here and sorry I don't keep maps of the multiverse in my underwear drawer or reread arcs more than 2 times.

Now I will ask you again based on what? If you can't make a case don't act like you can, k.

Omega Vision
Oh god...it begins again.

Q99
Originally posted by quanchi112
Even if he goes all out I don't see him anywhere near Prime and no showing to suggest as much.

Agreed. Does anyone think he was holding back against Prime? Or, say, Doomsday?

We've seen non-holding back Clark on a few occasions. Superboy Prime is stronger than that.

Superboy Prime does stuff fairly casually that is hard for Superman even when not holding back. Let's not forget that in Sinestro Corps War when he was fighting off dozens of heroes including Superman and Powergirl, he wasn't even fully charged by the sun.


Going all-out multiplies Superman's strength by, I'd guess, 1.5x, maybe somewhat more, but not SB Prime level.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Q99
Agreed. Does anyone think he was holding back against Prime? Or, say, Doomsday?

We've seen non-holding back Clark on a few occasions. Superboy Prime is stronger than that.

Superboy Prime does stuff fairly casually that is hard for Superman even when not holding back. Let's not forget that in Sinestro Corps War when he was fighting off dozens of heroes including Superman and Powergirl, he wasn't even fully charged by the sun.


Going all-out multiplies Superman's strength by, I'd guess, 1.5x, maybe somewhat more, but not SB Prime level. People want to imagine him being on Prime's level when nothing could be further from the truth.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by quanchi112
And this wouldn't be the first time you were incorrect about something. I let you off the hook when you posted Thor's hammer strike sending shockwaves throughout the planet as you completely left out the context behind the scene and the feat. You're wrong all the time on here and sorry I don't keep maps of the multiverse in my underwear drawer or reread arcs more than 2 times.

Now I will ask you again based on what? If you can't make a case don't act like you can, k. Never pretended to be never incorrect about anything. You could have simply pointed it out to me that I forgot about his Belt of Strength. But thanks for "letting me off the hook." I do very much appreciate that, missy. Also, nice attempt at a back-handed insult. And by "nice," I mean "poor," and by "poor," I mean "p1ss-poor," and by "p1ss-poor," I mean "quan-poor."

Based on him not doing anything beyond what a never-holding back Superman could do. If you can't read comics don't comment on them, k.

P.S. Thanks for the correction though, request has been put to Digi to edit it in the Respect Thread. While your spirit is hardly in the right place, it's still appreciated, ma'am.Originally posted by Omega Vision
Oh god...it begins again. sly

quanchi112
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Never pretended to be never incorrect about anything. You could have simply pointed it out to me that I forgot about his Belt of Strength. But thanks for "letting me off the hook." I do very much appreciate that, missy. Also, nice attempt at a back-handed insult. And by "nice," I mean "poor," and by "poor," I mean "p1ss-poor," and by "p1ss-poor," I mean "quan-poor."

Based on him not doing anything beyond what a never-holding back Superman could do. If you can't read comics don't comment on them, k.

P.S. Thanks for the correction though, request has been put to Digi to edit it in the Respect Thread. While your spirit is hardly in the right place, it's still appreciated, ma'am. sly I do read comics and I caught your hilarious spin On Thor's feat even though it's obvious he was wearing the belt of strength yet you claim I don't read them. Sometimes I don't correct every detail you miss out because who has the time.

I keep asking you for examples yet you keep avoiding them. Why don't you give me some examples. We've seen direct comparisons of these two on panel already posted and Prime easily overcome Superman and others trying to restrain him the moment the sun arose and his strength returned.

I guess you view Marvel, Prime, and Superman all in the same strength department. Your logic is always so far off touch and so ridiculous I don't know why you continue on with some of the theories you continue to back, but hey it's who you are.

Ps. Someone who tells me to reread things you missed something fairly obvious. Hey, everyone makes mistakes here and there which I am aware of but it's you who always tells me to reread arcs while you yourself are busy leaving out the context in scans of character you studied in order to put up a respect thread about.

Just sayin.

jrodslam
Superboy prime is about 2x as strong as Supes imo. There were times where where sbp wasnt lusted and there were times where is seemed like Supes was.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by quanchi112
I do read comics and I caught your hilarious spin On Thor's feat even though it's obvious he was wearing the belt of strength yet you claim I don't read them. Sometimes I don't correct every detail you miss out because who has the time.

I keep asking you for examples yet you keep avoiding them. Why don't you give me some examples. We've seen direct comparisons of these two on panel already posted and Prime easily overcome Superman and others trying to restrain him the moment the sun arose and his strength returned."Hilarious spin?" It might be hilarious only if you think Thor w/ Mjolnir swing could never cause planet-wide reverberations. If that's your position, then so be it. You obviously have the time to post endless spam in a variety of threads.

Superman has easily broken free of multiple heroes as well. So has Black Adam. Originally posted by quanchi112
I guess you view Marvel, Prime, and Superman all in the same strength department. Your logic is always so far off touch and so ridiculous I don't know why you continue on with some of the theories you continue to back, but hey it's who you are.

Ps. Someone who tells me to reread things you missed something fairly obvious. Hey, everyone makes mistakes here and there which I am aware of but it's you who always tells me to reread arcs while you yourself are busy leaving out the context in scans of character you studied in order to put up a respect thread about.

Just sayin. Yeah, if they're not holding back. Had you any sense of self-respect and logic, you might be able to formulate a legitimate argument to bolster your own position. As it stands, you're simply spewing spiteful non-statements.

Ps. Least I read the comics I post about.

Just sayin.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
I do read comics and I caught your hilarious spin On Thor's feat even though it's obvious he was wearing the belt of strength yet you claim I don't read them. Sometimes I don't correct every detail you miss out because who has the time.

I keep asking you for examples yet you keep avoiding them. Why don't you give me some examples. We've seen direct comparisons of these two on panel already posted and Prime easily overcome Superman and others trying to restrain him the moment the sun arose and his strength returned.

I guess you view Marvel, Prime, and Superman all in the same strength department. Your logic is always so far off touch and so ridiculous I don't know why you continue on with some of the theories you continue to back, but hey it's who you are.

Ps. Someone who tells me to reread things you missed something fairly obvious. Hey, everyone makes mistakes here and there which I am aware of but it's you who always tells me to reread arcs while you yourself are busy leaving out the context in scans of character you studied in order to put up a respect thread about.

Just sayin.

you do realise that galan was just stirring shit, right?

redhotrash
At one point didnt Superman admit he had no chance of beating him, and that reasoning with him was his only chance? As for the Ion fight, SBP did treat it was a joke. He was eating those nuclear rods and goofing around carving taunts into headstones rather than fighting.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by -Pr-
you do realise that galan was just stirring shit, right? That presumes quanchi112 retains a portion of common sense.

And as quanchi112 himself would put it: Originally posted by quanchi112
Now I will ask you again based on what? If you can't make a case don't act like you can, k. uhuh

Original Smurph
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That presumes quanchi112 retains a portion of common sense.

And as quanchi112 himself would put it: uhuh laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Hilarious spin?" It might be hilarious only if you think Thor w/ Mjolnir swing could never cause planet-wide reverberations. If that's your position, then so be it. You obviously have the time to post endless spam in a variety of threads.

Superman has easily broken free of multiple heroes as well. So has Black Adam. Yeah, if they're not holding back. Had you any sense of self-respect and logic, you might be able to formulate a legitimate argument to bolster your own position. As it stands, you're simply spewing spiteful non-statements.

Ps. Least I read the comics I post about.

Just sayin. That isn't my only reasoning that's just one example. Superman was also one of those beings desperately trying to keep a weakened Prime down and the moment the sun came up he easily broke free.

The Thor statement has nothing to do with if he can destroy a planet or not. I for think he can, but the problem I have is you failed to point out for that feat he had the belt of strength on. You studied a character enough to put long hours in for a respect thread yet you missed something so many others easily picked up on.


You also criticized me because I hadn't read the ff arc with Abraxas more than once and yet yourself misremember things you even study. Just pointing out the irony of it all.

You made the claim when he stops holding back he's much closer and have failed at every turn to make an argument. I'll ask again since you made the claim what showings do you base this off of?


Ps. I always back up my claims and give my reasoning while you insult and pout when someone calls you out on it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
you do realise that galan was just stirring shit, right? Galan would never do such a thing. Also, I've seen these two characters head to head and it's not even close. Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That presumes quanchi112 retains a portion of common sense.

And as quanchi112 himself would put it: uhuh Another insult. Such an insecure poster you are.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by quanchi112
That isn't my only reasoning that's just one example. Superman was also one of those beings desperately trying to keep a weakened Prime down and the moment the sun came up he easily broke free.

The Thor statement has nothing to do with if he can destroy a planet or not. I for think he can, but the problem I have is you failed to point out for that feat he had the belt of strength on. You studied a character enough to put long hours in for a respect thread yet you missed something so many others easily picked up on.Inverse ninja law. More heroes you throw at a problem, less effective they are.

Then it wasn't a "hilarious spin." Just a mistake. Nice back-tracking. Originally posted by quanchi112
You also criticized me because I hadn't read the ff arc with Abraxas more than once and yet yourself misremember things you even study. Just pointing out the irony of it all.

You made the claim when he stops holding back he's much closer and have failed at every turn to make an argument. I'll ask again since you made the claim what showings do you base this off of? The irony is, I asked you to read it. You refused, despite owning it. Then while you refused to read it, you went on to spew a whole load of garbage based on you not reading it for pages upon pages upon pages. While I, simply reread it afetr it was pointed out and noted it. Slight difference, slick.

The showings where Superman and Black Adam threw off loads of heroes. Reread World War III.Originally posted by quanchi112
Ps. I always back up my claims and give my reasoning while you insult and pout when someone calls you out on it.

Another insult. Such an insecure poster you are. Except when you don't bother reading the comics. I don't recall me pouting over it. But whatever makes you sleep better.

Insult? You misunderstand me, sir. That was a joke! And jokes are funnier to people when reflecting the truth. Unless, you yourself are the punchline. Sorry if I'm being prejudiced when it comes to which audience I cater to.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Galan would never do such a thing.

and yet, he did. the smiley should have been enough of a hint.

quanchi112
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Inverse ninja law. More heroes you throw at a problem, less effective they are.

Then it wasn't a "hilarious spin." Just a mistake. Nice back-tracking. The irony is, I asked you to read it. You refused, despite owning it. Then while you refused to read it, you went on to spew a whole load of garbage based on you not reading it for pages upon pages upon pages. While I, simply reread it afetr it was pointed out and noted it. Slight difference, slick.

The showings where Superman and Black Adam threw off loads of heroes. Reread World War III. Except when you don't bother reading the comics. I don't recall me pouting over it. But whatever makes you sleep better.

Insult? You misunderstand me, sir. That was a joke! And jokes are funnier to people when reflecting the truth. Unless, you yourself are the punchline. Sorry if I'm being prejudiced when it comes to which audience I cater to. You needed to reread the arc because you missed a vital detail. Sorry, but saying he did it on his own is putting a spin on it but you admitted ignorance so I'll forgive you.


We've seen Prime face off against Superman one on one and it's been utter domination for Prime.

I asked for a simple scan in which stated it was the multiverse. It didn't state it was the multiverse at the end of the arc and I wasn't going to reread a story 6 months later just for that debate. I asked you for proof and when you posted it I said it makes more sense that it was the multiverse. Like I said everyone forgets things and I was honest it's been some time and only asked for proof. You went off on a rant like you always do and attacked me personally. You then missed something obvious about a character you studied enough to do a respect thread covering making your statement ironic.

I never denied other heroes have thrown off other heroes. I suggest you reread it because Black Adam didn't throw off Superman like Prime did so making a claim that his showings are equal to Prime's is laughable to say the least. That's your problem you see another hero in the same league as Prime not mine. So reread it ok because Superman didn't oppose Adam. K.

I read the issues. I hadn't read them recently while you seem clueless about Thor feats which was a character you studied. That's funny.

Are you going to make an argument as to why you think Superman's closer to Prime yet?

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
and yet, he did. the smiley should have been enough of a hint. Quick question. Do you think Superman could move planets at the same speed Superboy did?

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Quick question. Do you think Superman could move planets at the same speed Superboy did?

if he really wanted to, i don't see why not.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
if he really wanted to, i don't see why not. Do you think he wanted to when he had help? I don't get this if he really wanted to. I guess he didn't really care to then, right?

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you think he wanted to when he had help? I don't get this if he really wanted to. I guess he didn't really care to then, right?

just because he had help doing something does not imply that he couldn't do it himself. besides, that was before several upgrades, including owaw if i'm not mistaken.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
just because he had help doing something does not imply that he couldn't do it himself. besides, that was before several upgrades, including owaw if i'm not mistaken. If he could do it by himself then he wouldn't need the help he'd just say I got this. In direct confrontations Prime's always been shown to be his superior.

I think it's rather obvious Prime exceeds Superman in every way, shape, and form by his showings but I guess some people view it differently despite the lack of evidence.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by quanchi112
If he could do it by himself then he wouldn't need the help he'd just say I got this. In direct confrontations Prime's always been shown to be his superior.

I think it's rather obvious Prime exceeds Superman in every way, shape, and form by his showings but I guess some people view it differently despite the lack of evidence.
Not really, Prime fails hard at delivering speeches. stick out tongue

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not really, Prime fails hard at delivering speeches. stick out tongue

"I'll kill you to death!" was pretty damn epic, though.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not really, Prime fails hard at delivering speeches. stick out tongue Who questions my dare.....to Mordru saying "what," was classic.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
If he could do it by himself then he wouldn't need the help he'd just say I got this. In direct confrontations Prime's always been shown to be his superior.

I think it's rather obvious Prime exceeds Superman in every way, shape, and form by his showings but I guess some people view it differently despite the lack of evidence.

a) superman isn't that much of an ass.

b) don't presume to condescend to me like you know what you're talking about.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
"I'll kill you to death!" was pretty damn epic, though.
You're ruining it! You're ruining me!

I'm not stupid!

Heh. Stupid Earth.

You're right. He's a speech wizard.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You're ruining it! You're ruining me!

I'm not stupid!

Heh. Stupid Earth.

You're right. He's a speech wizard.

thumb up

They should make a desk calender with Prime quotes for every day. I'd buy it.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
thumb up

They should make a desk calender with Prime quotes for every day. I'd buy it.
I'd buy one...and regift it to a cousin.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
a) superman isn't that much of an ass.

b) don't presume to condescend to me like you know what you're talking about. a)No, Prime is a jerk no doubt about it.


b)What do you mean? I do know what I am talking about here. I've seen the characters fight on panel. I've seen prime in action. I've seen the ridiculous things he does. Superman can't laugh off Mordru blasts, Black Adam punches, can't blow thru Prime's hand, bfr the Anti Monitor, move planets at the speeds Prime has done on panel.


I don't want to get into anything over it but there's no proof he's anywhere near Prime strength with all things considered.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by quanchi112
a)No, Prime is a jerk no doubt about it.


b)What do you mean? I do know what I am talking about here. I've seen the characters fight on panel. I've seen prime in action. I've seen the ridiculous things he does. Superman can't laugh off Mordru blasts, Black Adam punches, can't blow thru Prime's hand, bfr the Anti Monitor, move planets at the speeds Prime has done on panel.


I don't want to get into anything over it but there's no proof he's anywhere near Prime strength with all things considered.
Superman could definitely bfr the weakened husk of the Anti-Monitor from the end of SCW. erm

quanchi112
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman could definitely bfr the weakened husk of the Anti-Monitor from the end of SCW. erm Speculation. Look I get it, the only thing I am going to hear is Superman could and can without offering proof.


I mean if he can't easily do the other things I mentioned I guess I already made my point.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by quanchi112
Speculation. Look I get it, the only thing I am going to hear is Superman could and can without offering proof.


I mean if he can't easily do the other things I mentioned I guess I already made my point.
I'm in no way arguing Superman=Prime, I'm not stupid or delusional in spite of your opinion. What I'm arguing is that the gulf of power between them isn't nearly as wide as you think it is.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm in no way arguing Superman=Prime, I'm not stupid or delusional in spite of your opinion. What I'm arguing is that the gulf of power between them isn't nearly as wide as you think it is. I know the percentage of which we all see the gap will vary from person to person, but the gap is there. My point is someone like Black Adam hitting Superman he's going to feel it while it tickles Prime.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by quanchi112
I know the percentage of which we all see the gap will vary from person to person, but the gap is there. My point is someone like Black Adam hitting Superman he's going to feel it while it tickles Prime.
No arguments there.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
a)No, Prime is a jerk no doubt about it.


b)What do you mean? I do know what I am talking about here. I've seen the characters fight on panel. I've seen prime in action. I've seen the ridiculous things he does. Superman can't laugh off Mordru blasts, Black Adam punches, can't blow thru Prime's hand, bfr the Anti Monitor, move planets at the speeds Prime has done on panel.


I don't want to get into anything over it but there's no proof he's anywhere near Prime strength with all things considered.

a) that's why i said Superman, not Superboy Prime.

b) Not to you. Plus, you obviously don't know as much about Superman as you seem to claim you do if you'd so readily dismiss him.

Blasts from Mordru? Superman has tanked the OB. Superman could pierce his hand if he wanted to. Kryptonian heat vision regularly pierces the skin of other Kryptonians. There's more than enough evidence of that.

Prime's consistency ISN'T that impressive. People say he took on an army of superheroes. So did Superman. Almost every time he fights Conner Kent, he has trouble. So now Conner is Superman level? He pretty much pissed himself when Supergirl and Powergirl threatened to castrate him.

People love to bring up that Prime is a silver age kryptonian. You know who else is a silver age kryptonian? Earth 2 Superman, and his feats piss all over Prime's. Yet what happened when Superman fought him? He held his own.

Yes, Prime is stronger than Superman, but to say that Superman couldn't match him, with the feats he has ON PANEL, is lunacy, imo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
a) that's why i said Superman, not Superboy Prime.

b) Not to you. Plus, you obviously don't know as much about Superman as you seem to claim you do if you'd so readily dismiss him.

Blasts from Mordru? Superman has tanked the OB. Superman could pierce his hand if he wanted to. Kryptonian heat vision regularly pierces the skin of other Kryptonians. There's more than enough evidence of that.

Prime's consistency ISN'T that impressive. People say he took on an army of superheroes. So did Superman. Almost every time he fights Conner Kent, he has trouble. So now Conner is Superman level? He pretty much pissed himself when Supergirl and Powergirl threatened to castrate him.

People love to bring up that Prime is a silver age kryptonian. You know who else is a silver age kryptonian? Earth 2 Superman, and his feats piss all over Prime's. Yet what happened when Superman fought him? He held his own.

Yes, Prime is stronger than Superman, but to say that Superman couldn't match him, with the feats he has ON PANEL, is lunacy, imo. A)K.

B)I don't have to read every Superman appearance out there when I've seen how these two characters interact and how they are shown. I also see how they interact against similar opposition and Prime seems to be well above him in every way.

Superman got blasted by Mordru and he needed aid against Mordru in the same arc by the same writer who had Prime laugh off Mordru blasts so it's a direct comparison by the same writer in the same story. Prime laughs off things that hurt Superman.

What's inconsistent about Prime? He's smacked Superboy around before, killed his teammates by mistake, and gotten Superboy killed while Prime barely noticed it. He's not going to easily kick superboy's ass the moment he reemerges in comics. you put up a thread between the two and Prime dominates Superboy all day. In a story created by dc they won't have Prime just squat away a character who just returned as they would be kinda pointless as

a)he just returned.
b)they have a special connection.

Prime was a threat both your silver age Superman and ne Superman took on. They depowered them all to win. That to me doesn't reek of silver age Superman as greater than Prime. it was all heroes vs. Prime at the end because he was the threat and has displayed as being more powerful with all of these characters in the same story.


Also, Superman needed an army of robots to battle multiple dc heroes. He didn't do so on his own unlike Prime.


Superman didn't hold his own against Prime. you say he can when the exact opposite is shown is lunacy. Abc logic falls short when we have these characters both going at it on panel.

Allankles
SBP is stronger but there's no way he's even close to 2x times stronger. If he were 2 times stronger - or anywhere close - he wouldn't have been brawling with Supes in IC and getting dropped, or having a real tussle in LO3W.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by quanchi112
You needed to reread the arc because you missed a vital detail. Sorry, but saying he did it on his own is putting a spin on it but you admitted ignorance so I'll forgive you.

We've seen Prime face off against Superman one on one and it's been utter domination for Prime.Since you already admit that Thor could cause planet-wide reverberations with a Mjolnir strike, than there is nothing to "spin." As it stands, it was a mistake. But thanks for the "forgivance," missy.

Superman is holding back and not trying to kill Prime if you hadn't noticed. For other people, this would be a backhanded insult for pointing out something so obvious and feigning a sense of education. But because it's you, I won't take it for granted that you actually read the comics you comment on. So I'll educate you. Superman doesn't want to kill Superman Prime.Originally posted by quanchi112
I asked for a simple scan in which stated it was the multiverse. It didn't state it was the multiverse at the end of the arc and I wasn't going to reread a story 6 months later just for that debate. I asked you for proof and when you posted it I said it makes more sense that it was the multiverse. Like I said everyone forgets things and I was honest it's been some time and only asked for proof. You went off on a rant like you always do and attacked me personally. You then missed something obvious about a character you studied enough to do a respect thread covering making your statement ironic.

I never denied other heroes have thrown off other heroes. I suggest you reread it because Black Adam didn't throw off Superman like Prime did so making a claim that his showings are equal to Prime's is laughable to say the least. That's your problem you see another hero in the same league as Prime not mine. So reread it ok because Superman didn't oppose Adam. K.If by "rant," you mean my request to you to "just read it yourself since you own the comics," then you have a very odd conception of "rant." I don't see how reading through 1000's of comics to make a respect thread and forgetting a detail in one of a thousand scans is "ironic." If you want to hold me to such high standards, then your own lack of penitence in refusing to read comics you own should weigh gravely on your own credibility. Since you don't show any regret in talking out of your a$$, you casting aspersions upon me is as effective as you p1ssing into the wind, i.e., you're p1ssing on yourself.

Yes. Black Adam bowled through heroes just like Superman Prime did. Inverse ninja law. Focusing on Superman's absence in one situation, while detracting from Superman in another instance would be hypocritical if it weren't coming from you. As it is coming from you, it's simply par for the course. Superman is a saint of restraint. And amongst his peers, he is the most likely to go easy on Superman Prime. If you didn't know that, then you're simply not reading comics. Again. Originally posted by quanchi112
I read the issues. I hadn't read them recently while you seem clueless about Thor feats which was a character you studied. That's funny.

Are you going to make an argument as to why you think Superman's closer to Prime yet? Actually, to be accurate, you refused to read issues you owned when it was pointed out to you that you were wrong. When asked again, you refused again. When asked several more times, you categorically refused to and started acting like you had cornered me. To be "accurate." If such a concept like "accuracy" even matters to you. I don't have a clue about Thor? That's comedy gold.

Are you closer to reading comics that you comment on?

quanchi112
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Since you already admit that Thor could cause planet-wide reverberations with a Mjolnir strike, than there is nothing to "spin." As it stands, it was a mistake. But thanks for the "forgivance," missy.

Superman is holding back and not trying to kill Prime if you hadn't noticed. For other people, this would be a backhanded insult for pointing out something so obvious and feigning a sense of education. But because it's you, I won't take it for granted that you actually read the comics you comment on. So I'll educate you. Superman doesn't want to kill Superman Prime.If by "rant," you mean my request to you to "just read it yourself since you own the comics," then you have a very odd conception of "rant." I don't see how reading through 1000's of comics to make a respect thread and forgetting a detail in one of a thousand scans is "ironic." If you want to hold me to such high standards, then your own lack of penitence in refusing to read comics you own should weigh gravely on your own credibility. Since you don't show any regret in talking out of your a$$, you casting aspersions upon me is as effective as you p1ssing into the wind, i.e., you're p1ssing on yourself.

Yes. Black Adam bowled through heroes just like Superman Prime did. Inverse ninja law. Focusing on Superman's absence in one situation, while detracting from Superman in another instance would be hypocritical if it weren't coming from you. As it is coming from you, it's simply par for the course. Superman is a saint of restraint. And amongst his peers, he is the most likely to go easy on Superman Prime. If you didn't know that, then you're simply not reading comics. Again. Actually, to be accurate, you refused to read issues you owned when it was pointed out to you that you were wrong. When asked again, you refused again. When asked several more times, you categorically refused to and started acting like you had cornered me. To be "accurate." If such a concept like "accuracy" even matters to you. I don't have a clue about Thor? That's comedy gold.

Are you closer to reading comics that you comment on? Giving that feat credit as a feat done without his belt of strength is a spin. How's it feel to admit being wrong to me. It feels awesome for me.

We've seen Superman not hold back before and he failed to kill WW so what's your point? We've seen Prime easily toss him aside, rip open the Monarch's armor which is by far his greatest strength feat considering how an army of top tiers couldn't do more than dent the armor. I guess you overrate Superman like most. Funny. You're excuses and logic pretty much cover every bad guy and hero here. I guess heroes get a free pass and can always rely on the holding back excuse. LOL.


Could Superman rip open Monarch's armor if he wanted to?

That's just one flaw that stood out. I am sure there are more but from someone who tells others to reread arcs because I didn't have the entire thing committed to memory you made a pretty big error. I didn't study the abraxas arc either yet you studied Thor.

BA received a lot more damage than Prime. Prime also was weakened when he took on most of the heroes and easily tossed them aside when his full power returned while BA had a melted face and was soon going to be overwhelmed. Characters also saw him as a former ally and don't hold him in the same regard as Prime. You know cause he's a villain and all. I guess you use double standards as well.

We've seen Superman go all out and it's nowhere near Prime level. I guess every showing of Superman is him holding back, eh? Typical response from one such as you while avoiding the reasons you put him closer to Prime you avoid the feats themselves and the reasoning.

Again, the word multiverse wasn't stated after the un recreated at the end of the arc. So it's still speculation either way as it doesn't outright state it. You had scans though and only posted them when I pushed you so that's laziness on your part.

Great job at avoiding the reasons why Superman is closer to Prime. You've become an expert at insult and dodge tactic you keep sporting.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Allankles
SBP is stronger but there's no way he's even close to 2x times stronger. If he were 2 times stronger - or anywhere close - he wouldn't have been brawling with Supes in IC and getting dropped, or having a real tussle in LO3W. He wasn't getting dropped. he was easily dealing with Superman during a melee fight. he easily tossed him off, blew thru his hand, and then froze him. Superman's nothing more than an irritant.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
A)K.

B)I don't have to read every Superman appearance out there when I've seen how these two characters interact and how they are shown. I also see how they interact against similar opposition and Prime seems to be well above him in every way.

Superman got blasted by Mordru and he needed aid against Mordru in the same arc by the same writer who had Prime laugh off Mordru blasts so it's a direct comparison by the same writer in the same story. Prime laughs off things that hurt Superman.

What's inconsistent about Prime? He's smacked Superboy around before, killed his teammates by mistake, and gotten Superboy killed while Prime barely noticed it. He's not going to easily kick superboy's ass the moment he reemerges in comics. you put up a thread between the two and Prime dominates Superboy all day. In a story created by dc they won't have Prime just squat away a character who just returned as they would be kinda pointless as

a)he just returned.
b)they have a special connection.

Prime was a threat both your silver age Superman and ne Superman took on. They depowered them all to win. That to me doesn't reek of silver age Superman as greater than Prime. it was all heroes vs. Prime at the end because he was the threat and has displayed as being more powerful with all of these characters in the same story.


Also, Superman needed an army of robots to battle multiple dc heroes. He didn't do so on his own unlike Prime.


Superman didn't hold his own against Prime. you say he can when the exact opposite is shown is lunacy. Abc logic falls short when we have these characters both going at it on panel.

and here i was thinking this new attitude of yours meant you'd actually grown some as a poster.

that's either plain superman hate, or prime fanboyism the likes of which i've never seen. either works, tbh.

and btw, he DID take on an army of heroes by himself. you'd know that if you'd READ THE COMICS.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by quanchi112
Giving that feat credit as a feat done without his belt of strength is a spin. How's it feel to admit being wrong to me. It feels awesome for me.

We've seen Superman not hold back before and he failed to kill WW so what's your point? We've seen Prime easily toss him aside, rip open the Monarch's armor which is by far his greatest strength feat considering how an army of top tiers couldn't do more than dent the armor. I guess you overrate Superman like most. Funny. You're excuses and logic pretty much cover every bad guy and hero here. I guess heroes get a free pass and can always rely on the holding back excuse. LOL.

Could Superman rip open Monarch's armor if he wanted to?It was a mistake. I've made mistakes before. Whether you pointed this out, or somebody else did makes no difference to me. I want feedback on the Respect Thread to make it better. It's now evident to me that you only pointed it out to me to be spiteful, instead of constructive. And if you're really getting off on this, then I honestly feel very, very sorry for you.

Wonderwoman has nothing to do with this. We're not comparing Guardian-amped Superman Prime with Superman. Had Superman had a fading portion of Guardian-ampage left and bumrushed Monarch, I'd imagine he'd do the same thing. Try and keep on topic. Originally posted by quanchi112
That's just one flaw that stood out. I am sure there are more but from someone who tells others to reread arcs because I didn't have the entire thing committed to memory you made a pretty big error. I didn't study the abraxas arc either yet you studied Thor.

BA received a lot more damage than Prime. Prime also was weakened when he took on most of the heroes and easily tossed them aside when his full power returned while BA had a melted face and was soon going to be overwhelmed. Characters also saw him as a former ally and don't hold him in the same regard as Prime. You know cause he's a villain and all. I guess you use double standards as well.I read Thor comics. Decided to scan his feats and put them in order. I don't write dissertations on him. Refusing to reread a comic that you owned after it's pointed out to you that you're wrong and trolling me for missing a detail that I acknowledged immediately is hypocritical at best. At worst, it's a very pathetic attempt to use the latter to spite me for subjecting you to the former. Originally posted by quanchi112
We've seen Superman go all out and it's nowhere near Prime level. I guess every showing of Superman is him holding back, eh? Typical response from one such as you while avoiding the reasons you put him closer to Prime you avoid the feats themselves and the reasoning.

Again, the word multiverse wasn't stated after the un recreated at the end of the arc. So it's still speculation either way as it doesn't outright state it. You had scans though and only posted them when I pushed you so that's laziness on your part.

Great job at avoiding the reasons why Superman is closer to Prime. You've become an expert at insult and dodge tactic you keep sporting. I'm not surprised that you're unaware of Superman's restraint and/or his sympathy for Superman Prime. We've seen plenty of times where teams get busted up as badly as Superman Prime has busted teams. Well, at least we who read comics have. I won't presume that you have.

You sir, are an idiot. I am not the bad guy for asking you to read a comic that you owned. If you didn't have the comic, that's one thing. But you did have the comic. Why should I scan a comic that you own on a topic we're arguing over? That makes no sense. But you went further than that, because after refusing to reread it, you started acting like an idiot as if you cornered me. Then you got scan-spanked. Badly. And then you went even further and started acting like it was my fault the whole time because I didn't immediately scan it for you. You could have avoided the whole situation by just reading the damn comic that you owned. And now I see you even taking it further and trolling me in a wholly different thread over the mess you created. It wasn't my fault you stuck your foot in your mouth. Again. And again. And again. And it's not my fault this time around either. You really need to get over it.

Great job using Guardian-amped Prime as a basis for your attempted rebuttals. Smart work. thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
and here i was thinking this new attitude of yours meant you'd actually grown some as a poster.

that's either plain superman hate, or prime fanboyism the likes of which i've never seen. either works, tbh.

and btw, he DID take on an army of heroes by himself. you'd know that if you'd READ THE COMICS. I did read the comics not all of them but who really can make a case they read every Superman appearance out there. Like I said he had aid when he took on Batman and the other heroes when he went a little crazy there due to dominus. You know I hate Superman but I give him his due and it's well beneath Prime.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It was a mistake. I've made mistakes before. Whether you pointed this out, or somebody else did makes no difference to me. I want feedback on the Respect Thread to make it better. It's now evident to me that you only pointed it out to me to be spiteful, instead of constructive. And if you're really getting off on this, then I honestly feel very, very sorry for you.

Wonderwoman has nothing to do with this. We're not comparing Guardian-amped Superman Prime with Superman. Had Superman had a fading portion of Guardian-ampage left and bumrushed Monarch, I'd imagine he'd do the same thing. Try and keep on topic. I read Thor comics. Decided to scan his feats and put them in order. I don't write dissertations on him. Refusing to reread a comic that you owned after it's pointed out to you that you're wrong and trolling me for missing a detail that I acknowledged immediately is hypocritical at best. At worst, it's a very pathetic attempt to use the latter to spite me for subjecting you to the former. I'm not surprised that you're unaware of Superman's restraint and/or his sympathy for Superman Prime. We've seen plenty of times where teams get busted up as badly as Superman Prime has busted teams. Well, at least we who read comics have. I won't presume that you have.

You sir, are an idiot. I am not the bad guy for asking you to read a comic that you owned. If you didn't have the comic, that's one thing. But you did have the comic. Why should I scan a comic that you own on a topic we're arguing over? That makes no sense. But you went further than that, because after refusing to reread it, you started acting like an idiot as if you cornered me. Then you got scan-spanked. Badly. And then you went even further and started acting like it was my fault the whole time because I didn't immediately scan it for you. You could have avoided the whole situation by just reading the damn comic that you owned. And now I see you even taking it further and trolling me in a wholly different thread over the mess you created. It wasn't my fault you stuck your foot in your mouth. Again. And again. And again. And it's not my fault this time around either. You really need to get over it.

Great job using Guardian-amped Prime as a basis for your attempted rebuttals. Smart work. thumb up I am not getting off on it it's just ironic because I let you pass and you went off on a rant because I couldn't remember every detail about an arc I read months ago. That's the only reason I brought it up.

The amp was gone when he tore it off hence Moanrch's comments about his muscles shrinking. The amp wore off and it was a Prime feat without the amp.

I didn't troll I asked for evidence because i wasn't reread the entire arc for you or anyone else for that matter. I went to the end and it didn't mention multiverse so I asked for proof. End of story.

Prime was also weakened and the moment he wasn't he easily tossed them aside like bums. I am aware of his restraint but that doesn't excuse his planet carrying feat he needed aid with. No one is going to get hurt if he uses all his strength and even suggesting he would hold back in that sort of scenario is complete crap. I apply common sense to much of my debating while feats such as this aren't feats where he held back. It defies common sense now I do acknowledge that Superman would hold back when hitting someone, but I don't see his strength feats or who he's beaten down as definitive proof he could even give Prime an actual fight if they both went at it. I see it as more or less the same as an Ion fight. it would take time but Prime would mop the floor with him.

It wasn't guardian amped Prime at the end of the arc. if you read it you'd know the amp wore off at the point of the feat. Reread countdown if you think that was an amped Prime who performed the feat.


Again, insults aside I guess you won't prove your case.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
I did read the comics not all of them but who really can make a case they read every Superman appearance out there. Like I said he had aid when he took on Batman and the other heroes when he went a little crazy there due to dominus. You know I hate Superman but I give him his due and it's well beneath Prime.

not the same instance. so please, stop assuming.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
not the same instance. so please, stop assuming. Ok, then our wires are crossed. Issue number?

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, then our wires are crossed. Issue number?

Superman Batman 33.

Allankles
Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't getting dropped.

Was talking about IC. Superman KO'd SBP in IC, after they fought on relatively even terms, circumstances aside.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman Batman 33. Is that canon?Originally posted by Allankles
Was talking about IC. Superman KO'd SBP in IC, after they fought on relatively even terms, circumstances aside. What are you talking about? When they were both powerless and a boy took on two grown men powerless. That's what you are relying on?

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Is that canon? What are you talking about? When they were both powerless and a boy took on two grown men powerless. That's what you are relying on?

of course it is.

plus, it's not the only time superman has taken on groups. heroes, villains, superman is a proven team buster with plenty of showings.

JakeTheBank
^ It was impressive in a way, because Superman was the one who was effected by both Red Solar radiation as well as Kryptonite. E-2 and Prime were only drained by the sun.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
^ It was impressive in a way, because Superman was the one who was effected by both Red Solar radiation as well as Kryptonite. E-2 and Prime were only drained by the sun.

yup.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
of course it is.

plus, it's not the only time superman has taken on groups. heroes, villains, superman is a proven team buster with plenty of showings. I coulda sworn someone put up an interview by Didio where he stated that's an alternate reality for the most part but that some of the events could be proven as canon.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
of course it is.

plus, it's not the only time superman has taken on groups. heroes, villains, superman is a proven team buster with plenty of showings.

Very true statement. Superman has proven to be a team buster, dont see any reasons of denying this quan.

As for the topic at hand, I honestly think Prime is at least 3 times as strong as Supes, could be more and I'm basing this off of what the writers themselves stated about prime strength.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
I coulda sworn someone put up an interview by Didio where he stated that's an alternate reality for the most part but that some of the events could be proven as canon.

it's canon. it's had canon arcs that were integral to dc, such as supergirl's return, the solomon grundy blackest night stuff etc.

Originally posted by carver9
Very true statement. Superman has proven to be a team buster, dont see any reasons of denying this quan.

As for the topic at hand, I honestly think Prime is at least 3 times as strong as Supes, could be more and I'm basing this off of what the writers themselves stated about prime strength.

when did they state it?

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
I coulda sworn someone put up an interview by Didio where he stated that's an alternate reality for the most part but that some of the events could be proven as canon.

Majority of the story isnt cannon and as for that part of the story, thats NOT cannon (which you are correct, it was stated in an interview) but Supes still have showings of him being a team buster. He might not have the type of showing that prime has or fought the type of teams that prime fought but he is still a group killer (if he wants to be). I just cant see him doing it close to the fashion Prime can.

Galan007
Originally posted by -Pr-
it's canon. it's had canon arcs that were integral to dc, such as supergirl's return, the solomon grundy blackest night stuff etc. AND the Captain Atom stuff (which is STILL being recalled in Action Comics to this day.)

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
Very true statement. Superman has proven to be a team buster, dont see any reasons of denying this quan.

As for the topic at hand, I honestly think Prime is at least 3 times as strong as Supes, could be more and I'm basing this off of what the writers themselves stated about prime strength. I never said he wasn't a team buster I referred to him needing aid against the heroes in the dominus arc. Taking on teams also doesn't focus solely on strength but combat effectiveness. My point was Prime did so while weakened and when his full power was restored he easily brushed them off.

JakeTheBank
I think the reason why Superman/Batman gets questioned regarding it's state in canon is because its pretty non-linear at times. It often tells flashbacks as much as it will tell a story about a recent arc/event. Most (if not all) of it is canon, though.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
it's canon. it's had canon arcs that were integral to dc, such as supergirl's return, the solomon grundy blackest night stuff etc.



when did they state it? So certain arcs are or the whole thing. It seems to be sloppy when we discuss superman/batman and I don't have access to the interview in question.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
it's canon. it's had canon arcs that were integral to dc, such as supergirl's return, the solomon grundy blackest night stuff etc.



when did they state it?

It was stated before the IC book even came out, before prime 1st appearance. I posted the scan a couple a months back. They even stated that Prime is comparable in strength to pre-crisis Superman and that the guy could turn a moon to dust just by head butting it.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Majority of the story isnt cannon and as for that part of the story, thats NOT cannon (which you are correct, it was stated in an interview) but Supes still have showings of him being a team buster. He might not have the type of showing that prime has or fought the type of teams that prime fought but he is still a group killer (if he wants to be). I just cant see him doing it close to the fashion Prime can.

which interview?

Originally posted by Galan007
AND the Captain Atom stuff (which is STILL being recalled in Action Comics to this day.)

aye. it was even referenced in IC, iirc?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think the reason why Superman/Batman gets questioned regarding it's state in canon is because its pretty non-linear at times. It often tells flashbacks as much as it will tell a story about a recent arc/event. Most (if not all) of it is canon, though.

yup. it was the same with superman confidential.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So certain arcs are or the whole thing. It seems to be sloppy when we discuss superman/batman and I don't have access to the interview in question.

most if not all of it. there's been too much referenced in other books for it to be non canon.

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said he wasn't a team buster I referred to him needing aid against the heroes in the dominus arc. Taking on teams also doesn't focus solely on strength but combat effectiveness. My point was Prime did so while weakened and when his full power was restored he easily brushed them off.

I agree with this and its pretty obvious that Prime is leagues above Superman physically because Superman brought an entire army to stop Prime during IC and then they didnt even do that in a fair way, they had to ramb him through a red sun.

Physically, there shouldnt even be a comparison between the two and thats pretty obvious if you ask me.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
It was stated before the IC book even came out, before prime 1st appearance. I posted the scan a couple a months back. They even stated that Prime is comparable in strength to pre-crisis Superman and that the guy could turn a moon to dust just by head butting it.

and that's the thing. Superman is comparable to pre crisis superman in strength too, as evident by their fights.

Galan007
Originally posted by -Pr-
aye. it was even referenced in IC, iirc? Si Señor. thumb up

JakeTheBank
It's plain for me to see that since Superman was first brought back after COIE, he's much closer to PC levels than he has been earlier on. It's been a gradual progression, and honestly, it makes sense if he technically gets more powerful everyday due to sunlight exposure.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
which interview?



aye. it was even referenced in IC, iirc?



yup. it was the same with superman confidential.



most if not all of it. there's been too much referenced in other books for it to be non canon. So then basically didio is off here.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
and that's the thing. Superman is comparable to pre crisis superman in strength too, as evident by their fights.

I disagree with this but to each his own. Prime ran through everyone and then, lets not even add to the fact that a group of heros (including Superman) was fighting a weakened prime but was unable to stop him and as soon as a dot of sunlight hit him, he through every hero (including Superman) off of him like they were nothing.

Now answer this, if Superman was just as strong as prime, during the Ion saga, why didnt they just throw Superman at prime, why did they have to rely on ion to stop Prime?

Why didnt Superman aid Ion when Ion was getting that a** whipped?

Again, its obvious.

carver9
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's plain for me to see that since Superman was first brought back after COIE, he's much closer to PC levels than he has been earlier on. It's been a gradual progression, and honestly, it makes sense if he technically gets more powerful everyday due to sunlight exposure.

And what feats are these thats putting him at his pc levels?

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not getting off on it it's just ironic because I let you pass and you went off on a rant because I couldn't remember every detail about an arc I read months ago. That's the only reason I brought it up.

The amp was gone when he tore it off hence Moanrch's comments about his muscles shrinking. The amp wore off and it was a Prime feat without the amp.And I quote: "It feels awesome for me." Keep your indulgent self-stroking to yourself next time and I wouldn't ridicule you over it. You let me "pass?" Are you some sort of referee? I didn't go on a rant about Abraxas. I asked you to read it and was flabbergasted when you (i) not only refused to, but (ii) actually kept demanding I scan it for you, (iii) and when I refused that, started acting like you won the debate. It was utterly preposterous. Why didn't you just reread the comic that you owned?

It was wearing off and Monarch commented that it was nearly drained. So he was still amped when he was fighting him. Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't troll I asked for evidence because i wasn't reread the entire arc for you or anyone else for that matter. I went to the end and it didn't mention multiverse so I asked for proof. End of story.

Prime was also weakened and the moment he wasn't he easily tossed them aside like bums. I am aware of his restraint but that doesn't excuse his planet carrying feat he needed aid with. No one is going to get hurt if he uses all his strength and even suggesting he would hold back in that sort of scenario is complete crap. I apply common sense to much of my debating while feats such as this aren't feats where he held back. It defies common sense now I do acknowledge that Superman would hold back when hitting someone, but I don't see his strength feats or who he's beaten down as definitive proof he could even give Prime an actual fight if they both went at it. I see it as more or less the same as an Ion fight. it would take time but Prime would mop the floor with him. You did troll. End of story.

Black Adam was weakened also and continued to throw off people aside like bums. DOS Doomsday did it too while Superman was there with all the heroes. And guess who singlehandedly ended that fight? Superman. Superman being thrown around along with other heroes isn't proof positive that he can't handle someone on his own. And Superman getting an assist with planet-moving suggests that there is a possibility he couldn't do it on his own, but it is not absolutely dispositive of his ability to do it on his own. You have to recognize how detrimental lead poisoning is to Daxamites, even Ion. Originally posted by quanchi112
It wasn't guardian amped Prime at the end of the arc. if you read it you'd know the amp wore off at the point of the feat. Reread countdown if you think that was an amped Prime who performed the feat.

Again, insults aside I guess you won't prove your case. And if you would recognize that the entire time he was fighting him with a fading Guardian-amp and only at the end did it fade, should provide you enough context. Take Monarch after he goes toe-to-toe with Guardian-amped Superman-Prime for an entire issue and then switch out Prime for Superman to bumrush and tear his suit off? Yeah, I see Superman doing it.

Insults aside, you still don't read comics. Reread Word War III for starters since you're so enamoured of a villain throwing off multiple heroes.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by carver9
And what feats are these thats putting him at his pc levels?

The fact that his power levels as of now >>>> back when Byrne first re-introduced the mythos Post Crisis. Even PC Superman was shown at times to fall victim to a single rock of Kryptonite. Now, Superman can fly through a red sun and gods know much Kryptonite and still function enough to beat down someone who's depowered but isn't suffering the same poisoning effect he himself is.

Is he = to PC Superman as of now? No.

But he's much closer than people might think.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's plain for me to see that since Superman was first brought back after COIE, he's much closer to PC levels than he has been earlier on. It's been a gradual progression, and honestly, it makes sense if he technically gets more powerful everyday due to sunlight exposure.

aye.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So then basically didio is off here.

Didio said:

The two books that exist, as I like to say, on the “side” of continuity are Superman/Batman and The Brave and Bold . In both those cases, we really want to keep with the high concept of those series, and keep the high energy, and more importantly, allow for the open sense of storytelling that people would expect in those two books. So even though we’re making changes to Superman and Batman in their own series and in satellite series, Superman/Batman will stay true to form and just go with the biggest, wildest, craziest ride we can offer.

Originally posted by carver9
I disagree with this but to each his own. Prime ran through everyone and then, lets not even add to the fact that a group of heros (including Superman) was fighting a weakened prime but was unable to stop him and as soon as a dot of sunlight hit him, he through every hero (including Superman) off of him like they were nothing.

Now answer this, if Superman was just as strong as prime, during the Ion saga, why didnt they just throw Superman at prime, why did they have to rely on ion to stop Prime?

Why didnt Superman aid Ion when Ion was getting that a** whipped?

Again, its obvious.

superman didn't fight a weakened prime. he was too busy fighting henshaw.

ion saga?

also:

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fact that his power levels as of now >>>> back when Byrne first re-introduced the mythos Post Crisis. Even PC Superman was shown at times to fall victim to a single rock of Kryptonite. Now, Superman can fly through a red sun and gods know much Kryptonite and still function enough to beat down someone who's depowered but isn't suffering the same poisoning effect he himself is.

Is he = to PC Superman as of now? No.

But he's much closer than people might think.

OneDumbG0
^ Post-Crisis Kal-El is neither at, nor anywhere close to, pre-Crisis levels. Neither is Superman Prime. Neither of em are sneezing away solar systems anytime soon.

carver9
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fact that his power levels as of now >>>> back when Byrne first re-introduced the mythos Post Crisis. Even PC Superman was shown at times to fall victim to a single rock of Kryptonite. Now, Superman can fly through a red sun and gods know much Kryptonite and still function enough to beat down someone who's depowered but isn't suffering the same poisoning effect he himself is.

Is he = to PC Superman as of now? No.

But he's much closer than people might think.

I agree, when it comes to resistance, Superman is>>>>>>>PC Superman. Anyone with any type of magic/K-nite could down PC Supserman and with ease but strength, durability, power, Superman isnt even CLOSE to his PC levels.

I dont even think Prime is close to a PC Superman (even though he's strong as hell).

carver9
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Post-Crisis Kal-El is neither at, nor anywhere close to, pre-Crisis levels. Neither is Superman Prime. Neither of em are sneezing away solar systems anytime soon.

True statement.

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