Superman Vs Loki

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Colossus-Big C
Discuss

Survivor19
Loki through and through.
Maybe he even manages to convince Guardians to go wage war on New Krypton while he is at that.

SamZED
Supes only option is speedblitz, all things concidered Loki should go Merlin on his ass.

Survivor19
Considering that CIS is on, that is unlikely

Mshinu
this.. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/user_sigs/1/5/customsig_120315_Hu.gif

Wei Phoenix
R.I.P. Kris, I'm sure you would've had something to say about this thread...

Blanket
Originally posted by SamZED
Supes only option is speedblitz, all things concidered Loki should go Merlin on his ass. I don't know if speedblitz would work considering I remember Loki reacting to Thor putting up an ice wall at lightspeed...

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Blanket
I don't know if speedblitz would work considering I remember Loki reacting to Thor putting up an ice wall at lightspeed...

Or he could become intangible or teleport away.

leonidas
how is loki in a 1on1 fight going to put supes down for the count?

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by leonidas
how is loki in a 1on1 fight going to put supes down for the count?

How is a god who is incredibly potent with magic going to put someone down who is vulnerable against magic?

Wild Shadow
someone is going to be transmuted into a frog and begging to be turn back.

Kasper Gutman
Not to mention that faced against a goodie goodie type Loki can always talk his way out of any jam.

It should be mentioned for those not familiar with loki that the Avengers were originally created to stop him as he posed a threat that one hero alone couldn't probably handle.

Original Smurph
Loki didn't do the frog transmutation under his own power.

How is Loki going to put Superman down before he gets KO'd?

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Loki didn't do the frog transmutation under his own power.

How is Loki going to put Superman down before he gets KO'd?

intangibility. shifty


i dont see supes blitzing 10/10 i dont even see him doing it 5/10.

manx422
Superman

JakeTheBank
God of Lies

manx422
Man of Steel

Xplosive
Loki is a bad style match up for Superman.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Loki didn't do the frog transmutation under his own power.

How is Loki going to put Superman down before he gets KO'd? Trickery. Supes needs aid against Loki like an enchantment from Ps to win imo.

JakeTheBank
Loki is used to getting into melee confrontations with Thor (who is his vast superior). Superman going for the direct KO/kill isn't going to work against a smarter opponent who has way more guile as well.

leonidas
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Loki is used to getting into melee confrontations with Thor (who is his vast superior). Superman going for the direct KO/kill isn't going to work against a smarter opponent who has way more guile as well.

and in direct melee thor has kicked his arse so why wouldn't it work for kal exactly? again, what is loki going to do to put kal down for good? blasts? no chance. he's not transmuting him (he needed surtur's power to change thor and when thor got back to asgard and was po'd he smacked loki around like a child). illusions could buy him time, animating stuff could buy, going astral/intangible could buy him time, but what will he do exactly that will ko supes? people say this is a bad match for kal, but frankly, this type of 1on1 physical confrontation is also very bad for loki. i'll gladly admit to being wrong in this case if someone wants to make a REAL case for loki somewhere. erm

and loki smarter than clark? i'd doubt it. more clever? perhaps, but with clark's experience, speed and strength, it will take more than cleverness.

TheTyrant
I like that Apoc defeats Loki, but loses to Superman in a thread. But Loki loses to Apoc, but beats Superman in a thread.


Apoc haters need to stop.

and Loki wins this.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by leonidas
and in direct melee thor has kicked his arse so why wouldn't it work for kal exactly? again, what is loki going to do to put kal down for good? blasts? no chance. he's not transmuting him (he needed surtur's power to change thor and when thor got back to asgard and was po'd he smacked loki around like a child). illusions could buy him time, animating stuff could buy, going astral/intangible could buy him time, but what will he do exactly that will ko supes? people say this is a bad match for kal, but frankly, this type of 1on1 physical confrontation is also very bad for loki. i'll gladly admit to being wrong in this case if someone wants to make a REAL case for loki somewhere. erm

and loki smarter than clark? i'd doubt it. more clever? perhaps, but with clark's experience, speed and strength, it will take more than cleverness.

It doesn't hurt that Thor is already highly resistant to magic as well as equipped with a weapon bordering on plot device when it comes to his stepbrother and foiling his schemes. Loki has the firepower to put down Superman. He's a top tier sorcerer, and Superman has had trouble with lesser magical beings.

Mindset
Loki was fine after getting his head removed, right?

I don't see what punches are going to do.

Wild Shadow
how about summoning magic chains and other forms of incapacitating supes.. loki can summon a magic sword just as easily while intangible.

supes isnt going to survive a magic sword cut while he is held in place by magic chains

loki can just blast him with mystic bolts

JakeTheBank
Loki has also taken blows from the likes of Thor and the Destroyer Armor and was only staggered momentarily. I don't see what Superman is going to do against an opponent who can literally just avoid/evade any and everything Superman can do.

Mindset
Originally posted by Mindset
Loki was fine after getting his head removed, right?

I don't see what punches are going to do. No, I would really like an answer, was I right?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Mindset
No, I would really like an answer, was I right?

Yes.

http://img359.imageshack.us/i/thor34422uz1.jpg/

Wild Shadow
also didnt superman take a physical beating from atlas due for the sole reason he was a magical being?


if Loki is the god of mischief his physical make up is also magic and he actually can control his magic.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
also didnt superman take a physical beating from atlas due for the sole reason he was a magical being?


if Loki is the god of mischief his physical make up is also magic and he actually can control his magic.

The thing is, even in a one-on-one fight, why would Loki bother fighting Superman in physical terms? He can phase, use telepathy, blast him with magic which WILL effect Superman, can radiate radiation, summon magical weapons, shapeshift, etc.

Hell, he can even Force Choke.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-03.jpg

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Mindset
No, I would really like an answer, was I right? he did it twice iirc.

his head is laughing as he's laying it onto the stump the other time

JakeTheBank
Loki can discharge blasts of magical energy which can stagger the Thor Corps, all beings resistant to magic or wielding weapons which can counter effect it. To say that Loki's blasts won't phase Superman is a bit much, imo.

psycho gundam
superman still wins, let's not kid ourselves.

superman ain't stomping him though, loki will try to coerce him to let up and it will give him opportunities to hit supes with strong magics.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman still wins, let's not kid ourselves.

superman ain't stomping him though, loki will try to coerce him to let up and it will give him opportunities to hit supes with strong magics.

If he does win, it's not a majority, imo. Not against a guy who can just turn him into snow.

Mindset
Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman still wins How?

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman still wins, let's not kid ourselves.

superman ain't stomping him though, loki will try to coerce him to let up and it will give him opportunities to hit supes with strong magics.

erm


yes, lets not kid ourselves here... a God of Magic vs a guy who is susceptible to magic

leonidas
superman has battled and defeated uber magic in the past so his weakness to magic is often overrated.

loki's blasts WOULD hurt, no doubt, but kal could take them AND they have to hit him first. a band of frost giants kicked loki's a$$ physically! the idea that he can't be beat down physically is entirely wrong. he can try and summon his sword but again, he needs to hit with it. the idea that he's a 'god of magic' is a tired argument. balder is the 'god of light'. his body is magic and he's an uber warrior. is he beating superman too? darkseid is the god of apokolips yet a lot of good that's done him. loki has never had a battle against someone like superman. loki could take some, but supes gets the solid majority imo.

Starscream M
Originally posted by leonidas
superman has battled and defeated uber magic in the past so his weakness to magic is often overrated.

loki's blasts WOULD hurt, no doubt, but kal could take them AND they have to hit him first. a band of frost giants kicked loki's a$$ physically! the idea that he can't be beat down physically is entirely wrong. he can try and summon his sword but again, he needs to hit with it. the idea that he's a 'god of magic' is a tired argument. balder is the 'god of light'. his body is magic and he's an uber warrior. is he beating superman too? darkseid is the god of apokolips yet a lot of good that's done him. loki has never had a battle against someone like superman. loki could take some, but supes gets the solid majority imo. very well said

I think people hear magic and instantly assumes Supes loses

the ninjak
Loki is Kryptonite in this scenario.

Blanket
Loki can KO Superman. His power is at times is shown pretty high (KO'ing Beta, hurting Surtur, etc). He can react to a blitz it seems as well.

I don't see him winning though. He's got his ass kicked before physically, he'll get his ass kicked again.

CIS off though, with the whole 'Bor snow, intangible, etc' though would win. The Bor snow seems weird though.

quanchi112
Originally posted by leonidas
superman has battled and defeated uber magic in the past so his weakness to magic is often overrated.

loki's blasts WOULD hurt, no doubt, but kal could take them AND they have to hit him first. a band of frost giants kicked loki's a$$ physically! the idea that he can't be beat down physically is entirely wrong. he can try and summon his sword but again, he needs to hit with it. the idea that he's a 'god of magic' is a tired argument. balder is the 'god of light'. his body is magic and he's an uber warrior. is he beating superman too? darkseid is the god of apokolips yet a lot of good that's done him. loki has never had a battle against someone like superman. loki could take some, but supes gets the solid majority imo. You're forgetting about the times Superman needed aid/enchantments against other magical users meaning on his own he had no chance and only focusing on the fact he's a hero and will overcome the villain sooner or later.

Loki also went toe to toe with Surtur for a time. If you take both characters at their high ends Loki wins it due to the amount of options of he and the fact Superman's weakness against magic let alone someone with Loki's abilities to exploit them.

leonidas
Originally posted by quanchi112
You're forgetting about the times Superman needed aid/enchantments against other magical users meaning on his own he had no chance and only focusing on the fact he's a hero and will overcome the villain sooner or later.

i'm not forgetting in the least. he does have some poor showings against magic. he also has some good showings. his weakness is overrated and has been slowly been made to be less than it was in the past.



he flew around with a bunch of illusions and bought time for thor and odin. hardly toe-to-toe since he had zero chance to do anything at all to surtur.



if you take both at high end, supes weakness is nowhere near as big an issue as it has been made out to be. high end works AGAINST loki who has no victories over anyone like superman. how exactly is loki going to exploit them? what's he going to do to ko someone with superman's durability before he gets blitzed and ko'd? physical confrontation is NOT loki's strong suite.

quanchi112
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not forgetting in the least. he does have some poor showings against magic. he also has some good showings. his weakness is overrated and has been slowly been made to be less than it was in the past.



he flew around with a bunch of illusions and bought time for thor and odin. hardly toe-to-toe since he had zero chance to do anything at all to surtur.



if you take both at high end, supes weakness is nowhere near as big an issue as it has been made out to be. high end works AGAINST loki who has no victories over anyone like superman. how exactly is loki going to exploit them? what's he going to do to ko someone with superman's durability before he gets blitzed and ko'd? physical confrontation is NOT loki's strong suite. It actually depends on the writer and like anything else power levels vary as well. Supes needed aid against Atlas to overcome him. He also needed aid to overcome Arion who was weakened to boot.

He stood toe to toe with someone far more powerful than him. Supes went down far quicker against someone like Henshaw with a few blows to the dome. Prime's also shown Superman is nothing when they come to blows and someone he can easily shrug off at any point in time.

Superman's been ko'd by physical force before. Taking on BrB, etc. is taking on someone far more powerful than Superman with aid and easily waxing them. Loki doesn't have to go about this purely physically and with his trickery and magical powers he can get the win over Superman.

Points to Atlas and Arion again. He doesn't have man of magic in this thread does he?

WhiteWitchKing
Originally posted by leonidas
superman has battled and defeated uber magic in the past so his weakness to magic is often overrated.

loki's blasts WOULD hurt, no doubt, but kal could take them AND they have to hit him first. a band of frost giants kicked loki's a$$ physically! the idea that he can't be beat down physically is entirely wrong. he can try and summon his sword but again, he needs to hit with it. the idea that he's a 'god of magic' is a tired argument. balder is the 'god of light'. his body is magic and he's an uber warrior. is he beating superman too? darkseid is the god of apokolips yet a lot of good that's done him. loki has never had a battle against someone like superman. loki could take some, but supes gets the solid majority imo.

If Loki fought Clark smartly, Clark isn't touching him. Loki goes intangible, makes multiple copies of himself, and rapes Superman with hails of mystic bolts. If he knows about Clark's weakness, he'll teleport Superman into a red sun. Of course Superman can win but only if Loki fights like an idiot in physical form once Superman throws the first punch and blitz him for the K.O.

The thing with Loki is, he doesn't usually get involved in fights. Most of his fight is with Thor, and inevitably he will lose. But Clark doesn't have the same power set as Thor. Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm not sure.

Loki vs Thor Corps (he one-shots BRB here)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-02.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-03.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-04.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-05.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-06.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-07.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-09.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-10.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-11.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-12.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-13.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-14.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_441-15.jpg

leonidas
Originally posted by quanchi112
It actually depends on the writer and like anything else power levels vary as well. Supes needed aid against Atlas to overcome him. He also needed aid to overcome Arion who was weakened to boot.

He stood toe to toe with someone far more powerful than him. Supes went down far quicker against someone like Henshaw with a few blows to the dome. Prime's also shown Superman is nothing when they come to blows and someone he can easily shrug off at any point in time.

Superman's been ko'd by physical force before. Taking on BrB, etc. is taking on someone far more powerful than Superman with aid and easily waxing them. Loki doesn't have to go about this purely physically and with his trickery and magical powers he can get the win over Superman.

Points to Atlas and Arion again. He doesn't have man of magic in this thread does he?

well of course it depends on the writer. you said using high end feats. but using high end feats superman wins. he was granted a shield by PS against arion, but arion is enormously powerful--even in the state superman fought him. he needed no help against etrigan, or blaze however, and he's battled to many gods (CM, BA, WW, heracles, baal, etc . . .) to name. again the 'loki wins because he has magic' is a tired argument and ignores kal's strong feats against magic.

not sure why you're going on about physical force ko'ing superman. not sure if you said bill is far more powerful than superman, but that is blatantly wrong though i know better than to try and convince you differently. his 'trickery' is also overrated and does not translate into this type of fight where they are in a ring with nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. loki can win some, but kal for the majority.

Blanket
Leo will not be trolled, dammit!

leonidas
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
If Loki fought Clark smartly, Clark isn't touching him. Loki goes intangible, makes multiple copies of himself, and rapes Superman with hails of mystic bolts.

no way.

supes could dodge the bolts all day and go intangible himself and take out the dupes. that would also leave loki exhausted, like it did in the surtur battle so i wouldn't think he'd be doing that anyway. superman's senses and ability to see through illusions are extremely well documented as well. loki's intangibility is also astral travel--never saw him fire bolts in that form and to go astral would be to leave his physical body at kal's mercy.



but he wouldn't know though he could bfr him though again loki has no history of winning battles that way.



nah. if loki fights in character he'd lose most of the time. again, i said he COULD win, just not a majority nor is it a stomp like so many seem to automatically think.



thor rarely (if ever) uses anything exotic against loki aside from smacking him around when they battle physically. superman possesses THAT powerset in spades. kal would make loki appear to be standing still as well--something thor cannot bring to a physical battle.

leonidas
Originally posted by Blanket
Leo will not be trolled, dammit!

nwoot

JakeTheBank
Since Loki would have basic knowledge of Superman as per forum rules, he would have no reason to engage in physical battle with him. And people are forgetting when Loki does decide to fight a physical battle (and with Thor no less), it's not like he gets one-shotted instantly. He's taken Thor's punches to the head and has only been dazed. Hell, he's taken Mjolnir being thrown at the back of his dome and has only been dazed. He's been knocked around by the Destroyer as well. Anyone who can take that kind of punishment isn't going to get OMGWTF beat down by Superman.

And whether we like it or not, Superman's been shown to be either weak against magic or not invulnerable to it FAR more often than he's shown to be resistant to it. Can Loki one shot him with magic? Unless he pulls his "Bor-into-snow", no. But saying that Superman can tank everything Loki can do to him is wrong. Think about it. If Thor didn't have Mjolnir with him at times or was not already highly resistant to magic, Loki would have beat him plenty of times before. Even with Mjolnir, Thor has had trouble with Loki. And if someone who is basically catered to fighting magical threats has trouble with Loki, how in the hell is someone who is constantly shown to have problems or be at disadvantage with magic going to steamroll him?

How does someone who can one-shot a skyfather being (note that Loki attacked before Bor could summon his godly defenses, defenses that Superman wouldn't even have to begin with) and cast spells which can fool Odin beat someone like Superman? The question answers itself.

Survivor19
...
...
...
Or Loki could trick Superman into thinking he has won and leave the battle, therefore winning by default as the sole remaining combatant.

quanchi112
Originally posted by leonidas
well of course it depends on the writer. you said using high end feats. but using high end feats superman wins. he was granted a shield by PS against arion, but arion is enormously powerful--even in the state superman fought him. he needed no help against etrigan, or blaze however, and he's battled to many gods (CM, BA, WW, heracles, baal, etc . . .) to name. again the 'loki wins because he has magic' is a tired argument and ignores kal's strong feats against magic.

not sure why you're going on about physical force ko'ing superman. not sure if you said bill is far more powerful than superman, but that is blatantly wrong though i know better than to try and convince you differently. his 'trickery' is also overrated and does not translate into this type of fight where they are in a ring with nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. loki can win some, but kal for the majority. I didn't say he wins because he brings magic to the table I said it's how he uses magic and what he can bring to the table he wins.

Uhm, regardless of Arion's condition the point is Superman has no business even facing him without aid making him a legitimate example of someone he can't even hope to face without some of kind of aid.

WW, Ba, and Marvel are characters who don't have Loki's options and who tend to physically slug it out. We've seen Marvel portrayed as an equal and even ko him rather easily before through cheapshots(yes, I know) but magic was cited as the reason behind it. Supes also doesn't or hasn't beaten BA. These aren't examples of someone who would bring Loki's style to the thread here making them irrelevant examples imo.

Your argument entirely ignores what Loki's powers are and his highest feats while instead saying Superman wins based off his fights against beings with magical powers but not the same options a Loki type character brings to the table.

Leo, Superman also rarely uses his exotic powers in battle either so you citing Thor doesn't holds the same for Superman. Thor's more powerful and has options available to him Superman doesn't have. Thor isn't also weak to magic.

Original Smurph
Superman is far better equipped to deal with Loki's weaknesses than vice versa. Superman is slightly vulnerable to magic. Loki, while not getting destroyed by physical blows, still gets consistently dazed, which is all Kal needs to get a win.

Superman for a solid majority.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Superman is far better equipped to deal with Loki's weaknesses than vice versa. Superman is slightly vulnerable to magic. Loki, while not getting destroyed by physical blows, still gets consistently dazed, which is all Kal needs to get a win.

Superman for a solid majority. Loki has options to make sure Superman won't ever touch him. Again, you saying slightly depends greatly on the writer at hand. It's still an advantage for Loki.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by leonidas
superman has battled and defeated uber magic in the past so his weakness to magic is often overrated.

loki's blasts WOULD hurt, no doubt, but kal could take them AND they have to hit him first. a band of frost giants kicked loki's a$$ physically! On this, you do have to consider that those Frost Giants were being amped by Loki's manipulation of Iceman. Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not forgetting in the least. he does have some poor showings against magic. he also has some good showings. his weakness is overrated and has been slowly been made to be less than it was in the past.It seems you're underrating his weakness to magic. Especially the level of magic that Loki possesses.

leonidas
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
On this, you do have to consider that those Frost Giants were being amped by Loki's manipulation of Iceman.

don't think they were amped, actually. they were being driven nuts by a desire for MORE cold. that's different from amped by the cold. and it was in loki's castle as well. without prep, he has limited access to sheer magical power and spell casting options. given prep he'd win everytime. in this type of straight up battle, i still say supes for the solid majority.



and i think loki's level has been overrated by many. kal has fought more powerful opponents. he's literally ingested etrigan's magic and contained it, caught the magical axe of one of the mesopotamian gods with his hand without being harmed, etc.

magic does not=insta-loss for kal as many seem to think. at least not on the level loki has exhibited it.

leonidas
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Superman is far better equipped to deal with Loki's weaknesses than vice versa. Superman is slightly vulnerable to magic. Loki, while not getting destroyed by physical blows, still gets consistently dazed, which is all Kal needs to get a win.

Superman for a solid majority.

thumb up

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by leonidas
don't think they were amped, actually. they were being driven nuts by a desire for MORE cold. that's different from amped by the cold. and it was in loki's castle as well. without prep, he has limited access to sheer magical power and spell casting options. given prep he'd win everytime. in this type of straight up battle, i still say supes for the solid majority. Did you notice that they were also growing in size? And literally stated they were growing more powerful? And since Iceman was in Loki's castle, the source of cold was only greater there. Loki's lack of prep doesn't detract from his skill/power in magic. This scan is before Iceman was overloading Loki's apparatus:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/FrostGiants01.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
and i think loki's level has been overrated by many. kal has fought more powerful opponents. he's literally ingested etrigan's magic and contained it, caught the magical axe of one of the mesopotamian gods with his hand without being harmed, etc.

magic does not=insta-loss for kal as many seem to think. at least not on the level loki has exhibited it. I don't remember Superman ingesting Etrigan's magic. Scans? Superman can catch Loki's flaming sword all he wants... and have his hand cut and burned.

Magic doesn't equal insta-loss. But you don't seem to be aware of the level of magic that Loki possesses. Which is surprising. I know Kris Blaze was working on a Loki Respect Thread. But if the ridiculous perma-ban is going to be enforced, than it looks like I'll have to put my Guy Gardner and Hulk Respect Threads on hold to pick up the slack.

the ninjak
It will take Loki less than a day to locate and manipulate Luthor into giving him the location of Kryptonite. Then infiltrate the Daily Planet as a cute intern and wreck havok on Clark.

quanchi112
Originally posted by leonidas
don't think they were amped, actually. they were being driven nuts by a desire for MORE cold. that's different from amped by the cold. and it was in loki's castle as well. without prep, he has limited access to sheer magical power and spell casting options. given prep he'd win everytime. in this type of straight up battle, i still say supes for the solid majority.



and i think loki's level has been overrated by many. kal has fought more powerful opponents. he's literally ingested etrigan's magic and contained it, caught the magical axe of one of the mesopotamian gods with his hand without being harmed, etc.

magic does not=insta-loss for kal as many seem to think. at least not on the level loki has exhibited it. It's clear they were amped by the cold. He actually put the scan up and it couldn't be any more clear their power levels were far above normal.

I've seen Superman defeated by far less than amped Frost Giants anyways.

Magic also doesn't equal win for Superman. I've given two examples of character possessing magic where Superman can't compete on his own.

The Nuul
Man of Fanboys should lose.

Bentley
Loki goes intangible!


That aside major LOLZ at Quanchi for stating that Loki went toe to toe with Surter. Reading its tech. laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud


hysterical


I don't think I'll be able to take you seriously ever again. laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bentley
Loki goes intangible!


That aside major LOLZ at Quanchi for stating that Loki went toe to toe with Surter. Reading its tech. laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud


hysterical


I don't think I'll be able to take you seriously ever again. laughing out loud Uhm, he did go toe to toe with Surtur. He had no chance of winning but he took him on directly when all seemed lost. You can laugh all you want but it all happened in a Thor comic so laugh yourself silly.

What does reading it's tech mean anyways?

Bentley
I'm sorry, I'm sorry smile

You're right, I misunderstood. I'm misread it myself. I apologize.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bentley
I'm sorry, I'm sorry smile

You're right, I misunderstood. I'm misread it myself. I apologize. Good. We're still friends since you apologized.

leonidas
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Did you notice that they were also growing in size?

of course they grew in size. they were TINY to begin with. no expression

they'd been depowered iirc and loki had promised to return their powers to them. the cold did just that.



actually, they never stated that, nor did they continue to grow as the story went on. one said that he never felt so powerful. guess that could mean he was amped, though as easy to say that he'd been powerless moments before and was perhaps overstating things. if he WAS amped, there's no way to gauge the amount anyway.



again, of course. but that doesn't imply they were amped. haven't ever seen cold actually amp a frost giant before, it's simply their preferred environment. and again, even assuming for a moment they WERE, no way to adequately gauge how much they were amped.



so, show some scans of loki casting something in direct combat that would clearly ko superman.



http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7607/80100471tk9.jpg

he wouldn't have to catch his sword. he could dodge or easily catch his arm. my example wasn't meant to imply he could 'catch the sword.' rather the idea that he could use his hand and stop a magic weapon speaks to a certain degree to his 'vulnerability' to magic which IS the issue.



actually, i know loki very well, which is precisely why i say he's being overrated. can he win some? i already said yes. a majority? not imo.



be my guest. kris did update it, but again, it's not very impressive.

Bentley
Originally posted by quanchi112
Good. We're still friends since you apologized.

Oki, no problem thumb up

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by leonidas
of course they grew in size. they were TINY to begin with.

they'd been depowered iirc and loki had promised to return their powers to them. the cold did just that.

actually, they never stated that, nor did they continue to grow as the story went on. one said that he never felt so powerful. guess that could mean he was amped, though as easy to say that he'd been powerless moments before and was perhaps overstating things. if he WAS amped, there's no way to gauge the amount anyway.

again, of course. but that doesn't imply they were amped. haven't ever seen cold actually amp a frost giant before, it's simply their preferred environment. and again, even assuming for a moment they WERE, no way to adequately gauge how much they were amped."I've never felt so strong, so full of power!" =/= "I feel restored to my former might!" To be frank, that's an exceptionally weak rationale.Originally posted by leonidas
so, show some scans of loki casting something in direct combat that would clearly ko superman.Scans have been shown. He's kicked the crap out of the Thor Corps. He's turned Bor into snow. You want to ignore those, I'll find some more. Originally posted by leonidas
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7607/80100471tk9.jpgSuperman did not ingest Etrigan's magic or hellfire or whatever: Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just to clarify, Superman never breathed in hellfire. It was magical mist. And it still managed to transmute him into his inner farmboy:

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/220/supermansucks23cw2.th.jpg http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/9775/supermansucks24at2.th.jpg http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/1185/supermansucks25lt1.th.jpg http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5946/supermansucks26gb6.th.jpg Originally posted by leonidas
he wouldn't have to catch his sword. he could dodge or easily catch his arm. my example wasn't meant to imply he could 'catch the sword.' rather the idea that he could use his hand and stop a magic weapon speaks to a certain degree to his 'vulnerability' to magic which IS the issue.

actually, i know loki very well, which is precisely why i say he's being overrated. can he win some? i already said yes. a majority? not imo.

be my guest. kris did update it, but again, it's not very impressive. Him having to resort to catching his arm punctuates his "vulnerability" to magic. It doesn't mitigate it.

I don't find your reasons very convincing.

The Loki Respect Thread or Loki's magical feats?

carver9
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"I've never felt so strong, so full of power!" =/= "I feel restored to my former might!" To be frank, that's an exceptionally weak rationale.Scans have been shown. He's kicked the crap out of the Thor Corps. He's turned Bor into snow. You want to ignore those, I'll find some more. Superman did not ingest Etrigan's magic or hellfire or whatever: Him having to resort to catching his arm punctuates his "vulnerability" to magic. It doesn't mitigate it.

I don't find your reasons convincing.

The Loki Respect Thread or Loki's magical feats?

I hate you for being so damn good.

JakeTheBank
I can't see how the Bor showing wouldn't seriously mess up Superman, tbh.

Bentley
Yep, Loki turning Bor into snow beats Kal.

Blanket
Originally posted by carver9
I hate you for being so damn good. All over your face?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Bentley
Yep, Loki turning Bor into snow beats Kal.

If Bor (being a Skyfather and all) was unable to prevent Loki from turning him into snow, I can't see someone who's shown time and time again to be at a disadvantage against magic faring better.

leonidas
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"I've never felt so strong, so full of power!" =/= "I feel restored to my former might!" To be frank, that's an exceptionally weak rationale.

so some no-name, depowered frost giant regains his power and says he's never felt so strong, so all of them are amped somehow? what you're saying if that frost giants can literally be amped by cold? because that's news to me. and so how much more powerful was he exactly? did they continue to grow and get more powerful? because that's what you said they did--"literally stated they were becoming more powerful".



some loki plucked from a timestream somewhere. his first blast didn't ko anyone and he used an illusion to sneak attack bill, who in the same arc had the holy crap kicked out of him by skurge. not the best arc to showcase bill i guess. and loki v masterson? yeah, i'd give that battle to loki too . . .



cool. pis. either that or you think he beats any old skyfather. your choice i suppose. hard to figure though why in all the times he's battled and lost to thor he never simply turned HIM to snow . . . and considering he needed to use twilight's power to turn thor into a FROG, i'd think the evidence FOR pis outweighs the evidence against.



the blast that was shown would never HIT kal. and yeah, i choose to ignore the snow feat as an aberration.



i'm giddy with anticipation.



"you've no strength o'er my magical tool". it was etrigan's magic. no where did i ever say it was hellfire. he inhaled it and contained it, which is exactly what i said. he's also battled etrigan several times adn managed to withstand his hellfire and continue to battle.



"resort" to catching his arm? black adam wouldn't try and catch his magic blade with his hand either. he vulnerable to magic too?



s'cool, cuz i don't find your own any more convincing.



the thread is all right, loki just doesn't have many great feats to his name.

loki has no counter to kal's speed and he can be pummeled physically. all kal needs to do is get in close and loki isn't casting anything. supes can also go intangible and attack from long range. if loki had any kind of battles against anyone like kal, i may change my mind. as it stands, supes still takes a majority imo.

leonidas
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If Bor (being a Skyfather and all) was unable to prevent Loki from turning him into snow, I can't see someone who's shown time and time again to be at a disadvantage against magic faring better.

so you think loki beats someone like thanos 10/10?

carver9
Originally posted by leonidas
so some no-name, depowered frost giant regains his power and says he's never felt so strong, so all of them are amped somehow? what you're saying if that frost giants can literally be amped by cold? because that's news to me. and so how much more powerful was he exactly? did they continue to grow and get more powerful? because that's what you said they did--"literally stated they were becoming more powerful".



some loki plucked from a timestream somewhere. his first blast didn't ko anyone and he used an illusion to sneak attack bill, who in the same arc had the holy crap kicked out of him by skurge. not the best arc to showcase bill i guess. and loki v masterson? yeah, i'd give that battle to loki too . . .



cool. pis. either that or you think he beats any old skyfather. your choice i suppose. hard to figure though why in all the times he's battled and lost to thor he never simply turned HIM to snow . . . and considering he needed to use twilight's power to turn thor into a FROG, i'd think the evidence FOR pis outweighs the evidence against.



the blast that was shown would never HIT kal. and yeah, i choose to ignore the snow feat as an aberration.



i'm giddy with anticipation.



"you've no strength o'er my magical tool". it was etrigan's magic. no where did i ever say it was hellfire. he inhaled it and contained it, which is exactly what i said. he's also battled etrigan several times adn managed to withstand his hellfire and continue to battle.



"resort" to catching his arm? black adam wouldn't try and catch his magic blade with his hand either. he vulnerable to magic too?



s'cool, cuz i don't find your own any more convincing.



the thread is all right, loki just doesn't have many great feats to his name.

loki has no counter to kal's speed and he can be pummeled physically. all kal needs to do is get in close and loki isn't casting anything. supes can also go intangible and attack from long range. if loki had any kind of battles against anyone like kal, i may change my mind. as it stands, supes still takes a majority imo.

I give this to Supes but him going intagible aint happening.

carver9
I agree with leo on this, loki might hurt Supes but I think Supes could get in close enough to finish loki off for a majority.

8/10 Supes

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by leonidas
so you think loki beats someone like thanos 10/10?

erm

Where do you get that from?

Thanos obviously has defenses which Superman clearly doesn't have against mystical forces. Regardless of how you feel about Odin and Thanos and who would beat who eventually, the fact that Thanos was able to take a prolonged beating from Odin (who I believe was still not going all out) shows that he can take almost anything Loki can throw at him, which is altogether irrelevant as Thanos > Loki and Superman alike.

The point is, Bor, who is a Skyfather being, a god and Lord of Asgard, had his natural defenses (as Loki attacked before Bor could throw up a defense against his spell, once again, something that Superman clearly doesn't have to begin with) overwhelmed by Loki's magic. The question is how does someone who can't summon a force field/shield or doesn't possess an inborne resistance to magic like a god and in fact shows to have problems with magic regularly fare better against said spell than Bor?

quanchi112
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
erm

Where do you get that from?

Thanos obviously has defenses which Superman clearly doesn't have against mystical forces. Regardless of how you feel about Odin and Thanos and who would beat who eventually, the fact that Thanos was able to take a prolonged beating from Odin (who I believe was still not going all out) shows that he can take almost anything Loki can throw at him, which is altogether irrelevant as Thanos > Loki and Superman alike.

The point is, Bor, who is a Skyfather being, a god and Lord of Asgard, had his natural defenses (as Loki attacked before Bor could throw up a defense against his spell, once again, something that Superman clearly doesn't have to begin with) overwhelmed by Loki's magic. The question is how does someone who can't summon a force field/shield or doesn't possess an inborne resistance to magic like a god and in fact shows to have problems with magic regularly fare better against said spell than Bor? thumb up

JakeTheBank
And as far as the Bor/snow showing goes, it's not PIS as it was clearly explained in detail how and why said spell worked. Loki caught him off guard, after a battle, and knowing that Bor truly thought himself to be invincible, took advantage of Bor with his lowered defenses. He had no reason to have said defenses up because no typical Frost Giant could cast magic that would even remotely threaten him.

I think it's common sense that if Bor was ready and had said defenses ready, Loki wouldn't stand a chance.

leonidas
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
erm

Where do you get that from?

Thanos obviously has defenses which Superman clearly doesn't have against mystical forces. Regardless of how you feel about Odin and Thanos and who would beat who eventually, the fact that Thanos was able to take a prolonged beating from Odin (who I believe was still not going all out) shows that he can take almost anything Loki can throw at him, which is altogether irrelevant as Thanos > Loki and Superman alike.

The point is, Bor, who is a Skyfather being, a god and Lord of Asgard, had his natural defenses (as Loki attacked before Bor could throw up a defense against his spell, once again, something that Superman clearly doesn't have to begin with) overwhelmed by Loki's magic. The question is how does someone who can't summon a force field/shield or doesn't possess an inborne resistance to magic like a god and in fact shows to have problems with magic regularly fare better against said spell than Bor?

i don't think he needs to fare better. i've already said i acknowledge the feat as purely pis.

so, you think he can change bor into snow, but NOT thanos? what about someone like superboy prime? he has no force fields? and if thanos didn't have a force field up loki transmutes him? where are you drawing the line? thor has no force fields and that is NOT the kind of spell mjolnor will absorb. loki beats thor 10/10?

and superman has taken uber amounts of punishment too, much more than i've seen loki dish out.

leonidas
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And as far as the Bor/snow showing goes, it's not PIS as it was clearly explained in detail how and why said spell worked.
I think it's common sense that if Bor was ready and had said defenses ready, Loki wouldn't stand a chance.

regardless--we've seen loki need to amp himself externally to transmute thor, yet he goes and changes a skyfather without a problem? that is very outside the norm for loki, so even with said explanation, i still view it as pis. you're of course free to see it however you wish.

i could say that i'd love to see him try casting the spell on somene moving at lightspeed, or see if he could cast it before kal pummeled him into submission. no way he'd have time to cast a shield AND try and transmute. loki couldn't keep thor--as a FROG--from nearly killing him while simply trying to keep a shield up.

can loki win? yes. in THIS situation though, it favors kal.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think he needs to fare better. i've already said i acknowledge the feat as purely pis.

so, you think he can change bor into snow, but NOT thanos? what about someone like superboy prime? he has no force fields? and if thanos didn't have a force field up loki transmutes him? where are you drawing the line? thor has no force fields and that is NOT the kind of spell mjolnor will absorb. loki beats thor 10/10?

and superman has taken uber amounts of punishment too, much more than i've seen loki dish out.

And I already debunked why said feat isn't PIS. Loki got the jump on an arrogant and unaware Bor, because he knew he had no chance in hell of doing it to him straight up. How is that PIS if he used cunning and guile against a vastly more powerful foe who was unaware and didn't have the chance to defend himself? And again, why is Thanos brought into this? I'm using Bor as an example as it's a direct feat/showing for Loki. I don't see how Thanos has ANY relevance to this topic. At all.

As far as Mjolnir goes, yes, it would defend against such a spell, as it was a directed blast of magical energy as clearly displayed in the scan.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Scans/Thor12011.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Scans/Thor12012.jpg

Based on what Mjolnir has absorbed/negated magic wise, it's a saving grace against a foe like Loki. And it too, like Bor's godly defenses, is something Superman doesn't have to stop said spell or general magical offense Loki can throw his way.

And as far as "10/10" goes, I honestly don't know where you get that from as I can't think of anyone who said either character wins 10/10 here.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by leonidas
so some no-name, depowered frost giant regains his power and says he's never felt so strong, so all of them are amped somehow? what you're saying if that frost giants can literally be amped by cold? because that's news to me. and so how much more powerful was he exactly? did they continue to grow and get more powerful? because that's what you said they did--"literally stated they were becoming more powerful". Yes. Because they said they "never felt so strong, so full of power" before. You're being quite obtuse about this. You already recognize that cold can restore their forms from shrinkage. Heat also depowers them. Why wouldn't increased cold amp them to greater levels? And yes, they continued to grow and get more powerful. Loki literally stated,

"And still radiating cold. Thy power is greater than I guessed.

But the Frost Giants will have no cause to complain, I suspect. Full size and growing 'twould seem."

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/FrostGiants02.jpg

And later, when Iceman overloads the machine, they state, "We grow again!"

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/FrostGiants03.jpg

And this is all before they actually manage to take down Loki. When's the last time you read this comic? erm Originally posted by leonidas
some loki plucked from a timestream somewhere. his first blast didn't ko anyone and he used an illusion to sneak attack bill, who in the same arc had the holy crap kicked out of him by skurge. not the best arc to showcase bill i guess. and loki v masterson? yeah, i'd give that battle to loki too . . .Just how devastating do you think a blind-side shot from Executioner would be? You act like he's weak or something. BRB's durability rivals Superman's, him getting blind-sided by Executioner notwithstanding. And he got put down by Loki' magic (who isn't vulnerable to magic, unlike Superman). And Loki literally curbstomped Masterson Thor. Originally posted by leonidas
cool. pis. either that or you think he beats any old skyfather. your choice i suppose. hard to figure though why in all the times he's battled and lost to thor he never simply turned HIM to snow . . . and considering he needed to use twilight's power to turn thor into a FROG, i'd think the evidence FOR pis outweighs the evidence against.

the blast that was shown would never HIT kal. and yeah, i choose to ignore the snow feat as an aberration.

i'm giddy with anticipation.Detracting from the feat is your choice. Difference between our opinions is that I recognize what happened on-panel and you wish to ignore it. It's stated on-panel that Bor didn't raise his godly defenses against magic. These circumstances are laid out for you. Why do you keep missing them? And Loki drew on the Twilight Sword's power partly because he required extra power to affect the frog transmutation from such a far distance as per Thor #364.

Rather dismissive attitude. Superman's been hit before by blasts. Unless you're choosing to ignore that?

You should be. uhuh Originally posted by leonidas
"you've no strength o'er my magical tool". it was etrigan's magic. no where did i ever say it was hellfire. he inhaled it and contained it, which is exactly what i said. he's also battled etrigan several times adn managed to withstand his hellfire and continue to battle.It wasn't Etrigan's magic. Etrigan was referring to Encantadora's magic mists (the source of her power IIRC). And ultimately, when he inhaled them, he was completely transmutated into his inner farmboy, which is what the magic mists were doing at that moment. No resistance. So I don't see that as an example of Superman resisting magic. Frankly, it's the exact opposite. And IIRC, Superman's been burned by Etrigan's hellfire. Not just that, but if you read the scans, Etrigan rakes his claws on Superman and Superman's stunned by the pain! So why you bring him up is beyond me:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/Superman17.jpg Originally posted by leonidas
"resort" to catching his arm? black adam wouldn't try and catch his magic blade with his hand either. he vulnerable to magic too?

s'cool, cuz i don't find your own any more convincing.That'd be Superman's only chance. It wouldn't be Black Adam's only chance.

That's evident since you apparently refuse to embrace the plain presentation of certain stories. Originally posted by leonidas
the thread is all right, loki just doesn't have many great feats to his name.

loki has no counter to kal's speed and he can be pummeled physically. all kal needs to do is get in close and loki isn't casting anything. supes can also go intangible and attack from long range. if loki had any kind of battles against anyone like kal, i may change my mind. as it stands, supes still takes a majority imo. Ha. Comedy.

For someone who's so quick to discount that "magic = insta-win for Loki," you seem quite comfortable assuming that "superspeed = insta-win for Superman." mmm

leonidas
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And I already debunked why said feat isn't PIS.

and i told you why it IS pis.



because he has never done so before, and the onyl time he DID do it he needed an exterior power source.



and i don't see why you don't simply answer the question. if thanos doesn't have a shield up, could he transmute thanos? superboy prime? i also asked you who couldn't he transmute, but you didn't answer. and why on earth wouldn't it be 10/10 if all he needs to do is transmute kal into snow?



that doesn't look at all like a blast. a flash, but nothing struck bor, he simply changed. again, that is not the type of spell thor would absorb.



but he does have lightspeed movement. if it WAS a blast, as you want to say, how's he hitting with it?



not sure why you wouldn't believe it if all he needs to do is transmute him.

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by leonidas




that doesn't look at all like a blast. a flash, but nothing struck bor, he simply changed. again, that is not the type of spell thor would absorb.



LOKI does refer to Bohr having his guard down before ... And it blatantly is a spell - So Superman only has to move quicker than he says the spell in his head.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Did you notice that they were also growing in size? And literally stated they were growing more powerful? And since Iceman was in Loki's castle, the source of cold was only greater there. Loki's lack of prep doesn't detract from his skill/power in magic. This scan is before Iceman was overloading Loki's apparatus:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/FrostGiants01.jpg

I don't remember Superman ingesting Etrigan's magic. Scans? Superman can catch Loki's flaming sword all he wants... and have his hand cut and burned.

Magic doesn't equal insta-loss. But you don't seem to be aware of the level of magic that Loki possesses. Which is surprising. I know Kris Blaze was working on a Loki Respect Thread. But if the ridiculous perma-ban is going to be enforced, than it looks like I'll have to put my Guy Gardner and Hulk Respect Threads on hold to pick up the slack.

Pretty much sums up how I feel as well. You totally should get on that respect thread IF that stupid ban is continued. How fing lame.

carver9
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yes. Because they said they "never felt so strong, so full of power" before. You're being quite obtuse about this. You already recognize that cold can restore their forms from shrinkage. Heat also depowers them. Why wouldn't increased cold amp them to greater levels? And yes, they continued to grow and get more powerful. Loki literally stated,

"And still radiating cold. Thy power is greater than I guessed.

But the Frost Giants will have no cause to complain, I suspect. Full size and growing 'twould seem."

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/FrostGiants02.jpg

And later, when Iceman overloads the machine, they state, "We grow again!"

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/FrostGiants03.jpg

And this is all before they actually manage to take down Loki. When's the last time you read this comic? erm Just how devastating do you think a blind-side shot from Executioner would be? You act like he's weak or something. BRB's durability rivals Superman's, him getting blind-sided by Executioner notwithstanding. And he got put down by Loki' magic (who isn't vulnerable to magic, unlike Superman). And Loki literally curbstomped Masterson Thor. Detracting from the feat is your choice. Difference between our opinions is that I recognize what happened on-panel and you wish to ignore it. It's stated on-panel that Bor didn't raise his godly defenses against magic. These circumstances are laid out for you. Why do you keep missing them? And Loki drew on the Twilight Sword's power partly because he required extra power to affect the frog transmutation from such a far distance as per Thor #364.

Rather dismissive attitude. Superman's been hit before by blasts. Unless you're choosing to ignore that?

You should be. uhuh It wasn't Etrigan's magic. Etrigan was referring to Encantadora's magic mists (the source of her power IIRC). And ultimately, when he inhaled them, he was completely transmutated into his inner farmboy, which is what the magic mists were doing at that moment. No resistance. So I don't see that as an example of Superman resisting magic. Frankly, it's the exact opposite. And IIRC, Superman's been burned by Etrigan's hellfire. Not just that, but if you read the scans, Etrigan rakes his claws on Superman and Superman's stunned by the pain! So why you bring him up is beyond me:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/Superman17.jpg That'd be Superman's only chance. It wouldn't be Black Adam's only chance.

That's evident since you apparently refuse to embrace the plain presentation of certain stories. Ha. Comedy.

For someone who's so quick to discount that "magic = insta-win for Loki," you seem quite comfortable assuming that "superspeed = insta-win for Superman." mmm

Good post.

leonidas
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yes. Because they said they "never felt so strong, so full of power" before. You're being quite obtuse about this. You already recognize that cold can restore their forms from shrinkage. Heat also depowers them. Why wouldn't increased cold amp them to greater levels? And yes, they continued to grow and get more powerful. Loki literally stated,

"And still radiating cold. Thy power is greater than I guessed.

And this is all before they actually manage to take down Loki. When's the last time you read this comic? erm

quite a long time, apparently. lol

i concede the point they were amped by it, but . . . it doesn't really help you much. there is still no indication by how much--and regardless, even amped, they would be no where NEAR as strong as kal, which was my point initially. beyond that, they are very slow and utterly one-dimensional so even granted whatever amp they were given (which is STILL ridiculous since the world they inhabit is utterly frozen, and ymir be able to amp them anytime he wishes if it just takes cold . . .) it does not speak well to loki's chances in a match against superman.



bill should crush skurge. anyway, this is the crux--their vulnerablity would be the same (minus the hammer which can absorb maghic). kal is not MORE vulnerable to magic than anyone else--he's just not INVULNERABLE to it like he is everything else. magic affects him like it does anyone else, which makes it appear to be a vulnerability. there is a scan stating this fact. i'll see if i can scrounge it up.



maybe, but what's worse, choosing to ignore a single feat or choosing to ignore the entire history of the character that shows the 'snow attack' for the aberration it is?



not missing, just not lending credence to. without 'godly defenses' loki is going to turn odin into snow? to say a skyfather needs a 'godly defense' against being transmuted by loki is total pis imo. all those times odin was 'sleeping' loki really should have just turned him to snow . . .



sure, distance was PART of it.



like you're choosing to ignore the facts that loki has never battled anyone like kal, can be and has been beaten physically by weaker, slower opponents, been pummeled by thor who is ALSO far slower than kal and has no feats whatsoever to indicate he could resist kal's speed.



i never said etrigan couldn't cut him. he can cut supes like he can cut anyone. just that he's had prolonged battles against him and that etrigan hasn't beaten kal.



actually, what's funny is that i'm still waiting for those feats you were going to show everyone--you know, all those uber spells loki casts in direct combat that will ko kal before he gets blitzed and pummelled into oblivion.



now THAT's comedy since i LONG ago stated loki can get some wins. and for someone who claimed earlier magic does NOT equal insta-win, i've yet to hear you say clark can win ANY match against loki. supes has a better chance of withstanding loki's attack than loki has of withstanding clark's imo, due to his durability and speed. all clark needs to do is stun loki with a blow and he can't cast spells then he's finished.

leonidas
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
So Superman only has to move quicker than he says the spell in his head.

yep. s'what i been saying . . . erm

Wild Shadow
if ur looking for the power spell feats.... look at him in the thor corps series...

he had them all falling back and using their hammers to repel and absorb some the magic blast...

i dont see supes surviving that sh^%

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
if ur looking for the power spell feats.... look at him in the thor corps series...

he had them all falling back and using their hammers to repel and absorb some the magic blast...

i dont see supes surviving that sh^%

Supes has taken hits from Magical beings more powerful than Loki ... Mordru, Shazam etc come to mind.

Any way I was under the impression general consensus was that Thor > LOKI.

leonidas
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
if ur looking for the power spell feats.... look at him in the thor corps series...

he had them all falling back and using their hammers to repel and absorb some the magic blast...

i dont see supes surviving that sh^%

^^

AND that blast would have to hit kal first . . .

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Supes has taken hits from Magical beings more powerful than Loki ... Mordru, Shazam etc come to mind.

Any way I was under the impression general consensus was that Thor > LOKI.

really? care to give examples or give us in detail when has the modern supes taken a blast from mordru or shazam...

last i check a magic amp punch just by cap. marvel knocked him the [email protected]$^$ and atlas just by being magical beat the snot out of supes and they werent using any magic or at least very little magic.

the loki thor comparison has nothing to do with this debate.
no

Originally posted by leonidas
^^

AND that blast would have to hit kal first . . .

in character i can see kal hovering with his hands on hips monologing
and letting the blast connect......

leonidas
lol

yeah, i don't think so . . . given the basic knowledge of loki (which is what he gets) he'd know loki is a pretty powerful magician. given that knowledge i don't really see him standing there 'and letting the blast connect' . . .

no

carver9
Superman win this.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by leonidas
lol

yeah, i don't think so . . . given the basic knowledge of loki (which is what he gets) he'd know loki is a pretty powerful magician. given that knowledge i don't really see him standing there 'and letting the blast connect' . . .

no

basic knowledge of loki in the marvel U populance is he doesnt exist or even know he is behind crap other then thor or the avengers.. and few heroes

leonidas
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
basic knowledge of loki in the marvel U populance is he doesnt exist or even know he is behind crap other then thor or the avengers.. and few heroes

What the f**k?

in a kmc battle, each person has basic knowledge of the other, so yes, superman knows loki 'exists' and yes he knows he's a fairly powerful magician . . .

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by leonidas
What the f**k?

in a kmc battle, each person has basic knowledge of the other, so yes, superman knows loki 'exists' and yes he knows he's a fairly powerful magician . . .

Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.

stick out tongue

forum rules... big grin

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
really? care to give examples or give us in detail when has the modern supes taken a blast from mordru or shazam...

last i check a magic amp punch just by cap. marvel knocked him the [email protected]$^$

Actually Cap was able to knock him out cos Supes was caught unawares ... Don't forget that Cap, is powered by at leat 5 Gods (the other being a biblical character).

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
and atlas just by being magical beat the snot out of supes and they werent using any magic or at least very little magic.

Actually, Atlas was able to beat Supes because the crystal that powers him was draining his Solar radiation from his body.

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.

stick out tongue

forum rules... big grin

Your previous claim is debatable ... and doesn't make any sense.

I suppose when Superman is forced into this theoretical scenario. He will be prepped with the following ; The general populace (Not populance btw), doesn't know who this guy is, so we can't say anything ???.

If these are the restrictions of your fight ... Its hardly what u calll a afair match !!! And I don't think the Loki supporters out there are going to be satisfied with a win from such biased conditions.
AS they say; you've created a Straw man argument.

Wild Shadow
these are long standing kmc rules used and posted.. raver

follow the rules when debating.

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
these are long standing kmc rules used and posted.. raver

follow the rules when debating.

So Supes looses under your Straw man conditions .... But wins when he isn't restricted? Cool I can take a lot of solace from that smile

Original Smurph
Superman loses due to being too popular and well known... lawl?

Wild Shadow
no. supe can wins the majority if he blitzes every time.. but that is very out of character for him... and i dont believe it would be his consistent form of attack...

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Superman loses due to being too popular and well known... lawl?

Yeah thats pretty funny .... confused

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
no. supe can wins the majority if he blitzes every time.. but that is very out of character for him... and i dont believe it would be his consistent form of attack...

Good well, If the debate was, If the characters were at the best of their abilities, then we all agree Supes would win.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Good well, If the debate was, If the characters were at the best of their abilities, then we all agree Supes would win.

best of their abilities within cis and morality. whistle

leonidas
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Good well, If the debate was, If the characters were at the best of their abilities, then we all agree Supes would win.

cheers

Wild Shadow
concede you guys lost!!!

argue

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
best of their abilities within cis and morality. whistle

Best of their abilities plus a concept that I don't give a shit about, plus a concept that is not punctuated properly in the previous sentence. smile

leonidas
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Best of their abilities plus a concept that I don't give a shit about, plus a concept that is not punctuated properly in the previous sentence. smile

laughing out loud

yeah! what he said! mad













































stick out tongue

quanchi112
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Supes has taken hits from Magical beings more powerful than Loki ... Mordru, Shazam etc come to mind.

Any way I was under the impression general consensus was that Thor > LOKI. Superman has also received aid against said beings and stands no chance. Mordru didn't use a spell either against Superman and he was quickly helped so.


If you use Loki to the best of his abilities it negates the speed. Thor isn't Superman and doesn't have weaknesses against magic.

Atlas buried Superman on his own. A weakened Arion was too much for Superman on his own.

JakeTheBank
If Loki gets common knowledge of Superman like vice versa, couldn't he emit red solar radiation? And if he knows that Superman is a super strong, super fast powerhouse with a detriment to magic, wouldn't Loki basically use his spell casting to maximum ability and effect to make it almost impossible for Superman to lay a finger on him?

And no, I don't think Loki curbstomps the holy hell out of Superman; you'd have to be on something fierce to think that. I just happen to believe that he has what it takes to score a majority over him.

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman has also received aid against said beings and stands no chance. Mordru didn't use a spell either against Superman and he was quickly helped so.


If you use Loki to the best of his abilities it negates the speed. Thor isn't Superman and doesn't have weaknesses against magic.

Atlas buried Superman on his own. A weakened Arion was too much for Superman on his own.

Im too drunk to argue ... plus I stopped reading Superman comics during Camelot Falls, although I was under the impression that Supes managed to beat Arion -A sorcerer who could time travel under his own power, plus two New Gods, while having to deal with the moral implications, and having to make sure he didn't split the planet in two?

And I was under the impression that Atlas wasn't a magical being, but drew his power from some kind of Sci-Fi Jack Kirby Crystal power source ?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Im too drunk to argue ... plus I stopped reading Superman comics during Camelot Falls, although I was under the impression that Supes managed to beat Arion -A sorcerer who could time travel under his own power, plus two New Gods, while having to deal with the moral implications, and having to make sure he didn't split the planet in two?

And I was under the impression that Atlas wasn't a magical being, but drew his power from some kind of Sci-Fi Jack Kirby Crystal power source ?

atlas had help. massive help. quan's lying.

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by -Pr-
atlas had help. massive help. quan's lying.

Yeah wasn't a satelite directing red sunlight at him or something ???

-Pr-
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Yeah wasn't a satelite directing red sunlight at him or something ???

something like that.

and superman did beat arion.

leonidas
Originally posted by -Pr-
quan's lying.

could you be less circumspect? not sure i get what you're saying here.

laughing out loud

leonidas
Originally posted by -Pr-
something like that.

and superman did beat arion.

where'd that fight take place, paul?

btw--this thread has been fun. bout time you chimed in. big grin

Cartesian Doubt
Originally posted by leonidas
where'd that fight take place, paul?

btw--this thread has been fun. bout time you chimed in. big grin

The last few issues of Camelot Falls.

And Based on the time traveling feat Arion is a greater Sorcerer, than Loki. Although I don't claim this is definitely the case.

leonidas
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
The last few issues of Camelot Falls.

And Based on the time traveling feat Arion is a greater Sorcerer, than Loki. Although I don't claim this is definitely the case.

thanks. smile

-Pr-
Originally posted by leonidas
could you be less circumspect? not sure i get what you're saying here.

laughing out loud

if he read the arc, then the amount of times superman said something was wrong with his powers should have been a hint.

Originally posted by leonidas
where'd that fight take place, paul?

btw--this thread has been fun. bout time you chimed in. big grin

the superman annual, iirc.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by leonidas
i concede the point they were amped by it, but . . . it doesn't really help you much. there is still no indication by how much--and regardless, even amped, they would be no where NEAR as strong as kal, which was my point initially. beyond that, they are very slow and utterly one-dimensional so even granted whatever amp they were given (which is STILL ridiculous since the world they inhabit is utterly frozen, and ymir be able to amp them anytime he wishes if it just takes cold . . .) it does not speak well to loki's chances in a match against superman.

bill should crush skurge. anyway, this is the crux--their vulnerablity would be the same (minus the hammer which can absorb maghic). kal is not MORE vulnerable to magic than anyone else--he's just not INVULNERABLE to it like he is everything else. magic affects him like it does anyone else, which makes it appear to be a vulnerability. there is a scan stating this fact. i'll see if i can scrounge it up.Well, my initial point is that they're not ordinary Frost Giants. And it's true we don't know how amped they were but I'm not ready to assume a gang of amped Frost Giants would present "no where NEAR" a threat as Superman would. I personally don't connect one-dimensionality with inferiority.

Bill could crush Skurge if he were turned around and not getting blind-sided. If by your argument their invulnerability is the same, then you should know that Loki pretty much curbstomped BRB and Masterson Thor with his magic. So... And also, Thor and his progeny have exhibited magic-resistance, that Superman doesn't have, e.g., hellfire. Originally posted by leonidas
maybe, but what's worse, choosing to ignore a single feat or choosing to ignore the entire history of the character that shows the 'snow attack' for the aberration it is?

not missing, just not lending credence to. without 'godly defenses' loki is going to turn odin into snow? to say a skyfather needs a 'godly defense' against being transmuted by loki is total pis imo. all those times odin was 'sleeping' loki really should have just turned him to snow . . .I don't think it's an aberration. You relax your godly defenses to magic and you get turned to snow. Superman has no godly defenses to speak of.

Times when Odin was sleeping and was unguarded, Loki took over his body and expelled his consciousness. Why destroy what you can usurp? Originally posted by leonidas
sure, distance was PART of it.

like you're choosing to ignore the facts that loki has never battled anyone like kal, can be and has been beaten physically by weaker, slower opponents, been pummeled by thor who is ALSO far slower than kal and has no feats whatsoever to indicate he could resist kal's speed.Well, you asked why he used the machine, and I answered it.

While Thor =/= Superman, they are on the same level of magnitude of threat. Except Thor deals with magic and Superman doesn't. You say speed, people say intangibility. Originally posted by leonidas
i never said etrigan couldn't cut him. he can cut supes like he can cut anyone. just that he's had prolonged battles against him and that etrigan hasn't beaten kal.

actually, what's funny is that i'm still waiting for those feats you were going to show everyone--you know, all those uber spells loki casts in direct combat that will ko kal before he gets blitzed and pummelled into oblivion.

now THAT's comedy since i LONG ago stated loki can get some wins. and for someone who claimed earlier magic does NOT equal insta-win, i've yet to hear you say clark can win ANY match against loki. supes has a better chance of withstanding loki's attack than loki has of withstanding clark's imo, due to his durability and speed. all clark needs to do is stun loki with a blow and he can't cast spells then he's finished. Considering Etrigan: Loki's got more than claws and hellfire. Considering Arion: Loki's not largely dependant on trinkets that can be stolen.

Can you wait a lil bit? uhuh

I never said Superman couldn't win either. But the manner of your posts suggests an incredulity that Loki could do anything to Superman. Now (A) you qualify that by giving Loki a few wins, but then you (B) turn right around to argue that Superman has no problems dealing with his magic (which you still underestimate), that Loki couldn't even affect him with magic because of superspeed, and that Loki can never endure in a physical contest. I don't see how you reconcile (A) with all of (B). And in response to your original post in this thread: Originally posted by leonidas
how is loki in a 1on1 fight going to put supes down for the count? Well, since Loki wins a few, you tell us.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Im too drunk to argue ... plus I stopped reading Superman comics during Camelot Falls, although I was under the impression that Supes managed to beat Arion -A sorcerer who could time travel under his own power, plus two New Gods, while having to deal with the moral implications, and having to make sure he didn't split the planet in two?

And I was under the impression that Atlas wasn't a magical being, but drew his power from some kind of Sci-Fi Jack Kirby Crystal power source ? Atlas's strength was magical in nature. He needed help to beat both characters. That's the point.Originally posted by -Pr-
atlas had help. massive help. quan's lying. Had help? Superman left the battle scene to get help not Atlas. I guess that doesn't count when Superman needs help.Originally posted by -Pr-
something like that.

and superman did beat arion. Because Arion was weakened and he had help from Ps. On his own he'd have no chance. Originally posted by leonidas
could you be less circumspect? not sure i get what you're saying here.

laughing out loud I have no idea what I am lying about. Superman needed the man of magic to give him aid against atlas and needed Ps's aid against a weakened Arion. On his own we saw what happened to Superman against atlas.

-Pr-
Originally posted by quanchi112
Atlas's strength was magical in nature. He needed help to beat both characters. That's the point. Had help? Superman left the battle scene to get help not Atlas. I guess that doesn't count when Superman needs help. Because Arion was weakened and he had help from Ps. On his own he'd have no chance. I have no idea what I am lying about. Superman needed the man of magic to give him aid against atlas and needed Ps's aid against a weakened Arion. On his own we saw what happened to Superman against atlas.

atlas had help. superman said himself that he was being weakened by an outside source.

jalek moye
Superman can win, but it defintely wouldn't be an easy fight. He can also lose, it really depends on how Loki fights. More often then not I see Superman edging out a win

leonidas
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Well, my initial point is that they're not ordinary Frost Giants. And it's true we don't know how amped they were but I'm not ready to assume a gang of amped Frost Giants would present "no where NEAR" a threat as Superman would. I personally don't connect one-dimensionality with inferiority.

even amped it took a load of them to physically overwhelm loki. i'd say they constitute no where near the threat kal does.



loki tricked bill with an illusion and sucker-punched him. and again, masterson is masterson. and even he got in some pretty good shots first before reverting to his human form.



hmm, not sure about that. not sure if thor HIMSELF, without mjolnir, ever HAS exhibited any kind of special resistence. if you have an instance in mind, i'm all ears.



you saying sans mjolnir he's effectively resited hellfire? i've seen mephisto slag mjolnir and whip thor handily (though with the hammer he's had some success as well) but i don't recall him 'resisting the effects of hellfire' per se.



lol

i realize WHAT happened. i just disagree with it. a skyfather's natural defense should prevent someone like loki from just . . . transmuting them, and again, his history only supports my side.



meh, it's a fair enough rationalization, but a rationalization nonethelss and one that is ONLY required if you accept the 'snow feat' as relevent and applicable.



yep, the intangibility COULD be an issue, though i've not seen him go intangible and cast spells. i've seen him ASTRAL travel many times and utilize magic (though i suppose one of those instances could have been straight intangibility and i'm forgetting it) but he can't do that here because his body would be left vulnerable. and kal can vibrate intangible as well and has matched his body frequency with that of intangible beings in the past. and then there is the issue of loki being able to hit him, or find him to cast a spell at him. given his distinct lack of feats in the area, hard to credit those as viable options.



etrigan can also cast spells and is a far more serious physical threat to clark than loki is. he's also more accustomed to this type of battle. frankly i don't know enough about arion to comment on him.



laughing out loud

if i have to.



never said he could deal with his magic with 'no problems'. if loki had a little prep, if he had feats showing he could deal with clark's speed, i'd change my opinion probably. i don't underestimate loki's magic, i think i see it pretty realistically and i DO think it has been overrated on the forum. nor did i 'qualify' anything. it was one of the first things i said.



his best bet would likely be a telepathic assault, but clark has strong resistance to that line of attack. it WOULD however, likely cause clark to stop and battle loki mentally. if that happens, loki may be able to draw kal into the astral plane where i think he'd have a decided advantage. even if not, it would likely be enough to slow clark and give loki time to cast some spells. if he can blast him repeatedly and perhaps use a combo of tp attacks, he should be able to weaken supes enough to ko him. he also may be able to read his thoughts to glean the k-nite weakness then use his own matter manip to fashion some. that would also serve to slow kal down.

that said, all those things would have to happen before a blitz. allowing for the moment some of loki's tracking feats, it is JUST possible he MAY be able to track kal's blitz and go intangible or get up a shield long enough to attack mentally. it is a bit of a longshot though, hence i say clark for the solid majority, but loki has a chance to take some.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by leonidas
even amped it took a load of them to physically overwhelm loki. i'd say they constitute no where near the threat kal does.

loki tricked bill with an illusion and sucker-punched him. and again, masterson is masterson. and even he got in some pretty good shots first before reverting to his human form.

hmm, not sure about that. not sure if thor HIMSELF, without mjolnir, ever HAS exhibited any kind of special resistence. if you have an instance in mind, i'm all ears.

you saying sans mjolnir he's effectively resited hellfire? i've seen mephisto slag mjolnir and whip thor handily (though with the hammer he's had some success as well) but i don't recall him 'resisting the effects of hellfire' per se.I'd say by the construction of your statement, that you've assumed your conclusion despite not knowing how much the Frost Giants were amped.

Sounds like what Loki would do. Even sounds like what posters suggested he would do in this thread. And again, even after Masterson whacked him with Stormbreaker, he proceeded to get curbstomped completely.

Hellfire for one. It can (and has) burned Human Torch, but it doesn't bother Thor at all. I mean, this idea shouldn't be alien as it's literally stated in the Loki/Bor snow scan. Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ghost Rider's pure hellfire blasts are useless in Avengers #214:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorDurability21-MagicalAvengers214.jpg Originally posted by leonidas
i realize WHAT happened. i just disagree with it. a skyfather's natural defense should prevent someone like loki from just . . . transmuting them, and again, his history only supports my side.

meh, it's a fair enough rationalization, but a rationalization nonethelss and one that is ONLY required if you accept the 'snow feat' as relevent and applicable.Still on-panel. Not just that, but explained on-panel. crackers

You mentioned why Loki didn't just kill Odin in his sleep, because he wants his power. It's not a rationalization, it's the reason. Originally posted by leonidas
yep, the intangibility COULD be an issue, though i've not seen him go intangible and cast spells. i've seen him ASTRAL travel many times and utilize magic (though i suppose one of those instances could have been straight intangibility and i'm forgetting it) but he can't do that here because his body would be left vulnerable. and kal can vibrate intangible as well and has matched his body frequency with that of intangible beings in the past. and then there is the issue of loki being able to hit him, or find him to cast a spell at him. given his distinct lack of feats in the area, hard to credit those as viable options.

etrigan can also cast spells and is a far more serious physical threat to clark than loki is. he's also more accustomed to this type of battle. frankly i don't know enough about arion to comment on him.Loki's used magic while intangible/undetectable. Superman's vibrations wouldn't put him on the same plane that Loki operates through magic. Loki's hit people before with his magic. Superman's been hit by magic before. Not that hard a connection to make for me.

Says the person who downplays Loki's level of magic. Loki always has to avoid getting close to Thor and use his best magic to have a chance. Sounds like a battle he'd likely pursue against Superman. Originally posted by leonidas
if i have to.

never said he could deal with his magic with 'no problems'. if loki had a little prep, if he had feats showing he could deal with clark's speed, i'd change my opinion probably. i don't underestimate loki's magic, i think i see it pretty realistically and i DO think it has been overrated on the forum. nor did i 'qualify' anything. it was one of the first things i said.

his best bet would likely be a telepathic assault, but clark has strong resistance to that line of attack. it WOULD however, likely cause clark to stop and battle loki mentally. if that happens, loki may be able to draw kal into the astral plane where i think he'd have a decided advantage. even if not, it would likely be enough to slow clark and give loki time to cast some spells. if he can blast him repeatedly and perhaps use a combo of tp attacks, he should be able to weaken supes enough to ko him. he also may be able to read his thoughts to glean the k-nite weakness then use his own matter manip to fashion some. that would also serve to slow kal down.
that said, all those things would have to happen before a blitz. allowing for the moment some of loki's tracking feats, it is JUST possible he MAY be able to track kal's blitz and go intangible or get up a shield long enough to attack mentally. it is a bit of a longshot though, hence i say clark for the solid majority, but loki has a chance to take some. Damn skippy you will. biscuits

I don't see those two things reconciling with each other when there is no prep in this thread and when you're confident that Loki has never dealt with anybody like Superman.

Superspeed astral plane BFR? Superspeed k-nite creation? And Superman has used superspeed at the very instant a battle starts against how many magicians/gods?

leonidas
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'd say by the construction of your statement, that you've assumed your conclusion despite not knowing how much the Frost Giants were amped.

of course i did. they are just frost giants after all . . . i'd also assume kal could kill all of them pretty effortlessly if he chose to do so--and that's without heat vision.



again, masterson . . . he could try illusions, but i don't really see them working. more though, i don't really see him having the time to cast them.



from mephisto? i don't recall that but would love to see it.



circular. we'll not convince the other of our pov's.



Loki's interest has always been ruling. after the surtur disaster he tried to be named ruler. if he could kill odin so easily he would have. again, in the aftermath of the 'snow feat' it's easy to go back and rationalize away the reasons why loki simply didn't transmute odin in the past and kill him. or kill thor. surely he could simply turn invisible and transmute thor any time he chose to do so, especially in the early days when thor didn't even HAVE mjolnir. to assume the snow feat is NOT pis, requires too many rationalizations. i for one am not comfortable with that in the least.



astrally, yes. intangible? i still await the feats . . .



says you. wink



on teh surface true. now show me him hitting someone moving at lightspeed.



exactly.



problem is he CAN keep his distance from thor because thor lacks the speed feats kal possesses. frankly, loki has ZERO feats that would show he can react to superman's level of speed. or if the feats DO exist, i've not seen them and await their unveiling.



lol

you ask how I believe loki might win, then i tell you MY opinion and then you say i shouldn't even believe what i believe? presumptuous much?

tp users have been shown to be able to react to superspeed in the past. there is SOME evidence (not very strong) that loki MAY be able to track kal and perhaps react quickly enough to cast a spell that would buy him time to whip up k-nite or take kal to the astral plane.

so, i've entertained your question and explained how i see BOTH winning this match. you've yet to say . . . anything at all really, as regards the battle and how it would go. if you're so sure loki would win, show everyone proof of his being able to handle kal's speed, and show us the attacks/spells he could use quickly enough to take superman down for the count.



frankly, that argument is beneath you. erm

used to the full extent, given knowledge and all that . . . kal would know if he didn't end it quick, he might not GET a chance to end it. without speed blitz he'd have a much smaller chance to win. he could still dodge blasts easily enough, but area spells could take him out--though which specific spell i don't know, and wait for you to highlight.

quanchi112
Originally posted by -Pr-
atlas had help. superman said himself that he was being weakened by an outside source. From my understanding the magical nature of his powers put Clark at a disadvantage and he needed the man of magic's aid to overcome it.

Bentley
Let's not forget Loki was amped by Hela (I think it was Hela) when he turned Bor into snow.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Bentley
Let's not forget Loki was amped by Hela (I think it was Hela) when he turned Bor into snow.

She helped Loki time travel, but I don't she amped him as far as him casting that spell.

psycho gundam
superman.

don't see loki taking him out for a majority.

Mindset
Open your eyes.

kakuzu
Loki hands down. What Superman gonna do laser vision him? Loki turns his laser vision is a dragon and now Superman has to fight Loki and a Dragon that they both created. Whats superman going to do physically hurt him? He's taking a beating from Thor and his hammer,and has been trapped under thousands of tons of earth before I think he can take a beat. Whats next speedblitz? The one move Superman does when he realizes he can't really win (unless your talking about when he did it to mongul and Ultraman). Loki can move at the speed of thought and can casually dodge Thor's hammer like you would dodge basketball from across the court.

Then we have the magic factor. Its Loki's fight.

Mindset
Originally posted by kakuzu
What Superman gonna do laser vision him? Loki turns his laser vision is a dragon and now Superman has to fight Loki and a Dragon that they both created. laughing out loud

kakuzu
Originally posted by Mindset
laughing out loud

He turned a cloud into a dragon once so hey.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Bentley
Let's not forget Loki was amped by Hela (I think it was Hela) when he turned Bor into snow. Where did it state this?

Mindset
Originally posted by kakuzu
He turned a cloud into a dragon once so hey. I don't whether he can or not, that's not what I was laughing at though.

The thought of his heat vision turning into a dragon and attacking him is hilarious.

kakuzu
Originally posted by Mindset
I don't whether he can or not, that's not what I was laughing at though.

The thought of his heat vision turning into a dragon and attacking him is hilarious.

Oh lol when you think about it, that is pretty funny lol.

leonidas
Originally posted by kakuzu
Loki hands down. What Superman gonna do laser vision him? Loki turns his laser vision is a dragon and now Superman has to fight Loki and a Dragon that they both created. Whats superman going to do physically hurt him? He's taking a beating from Thor and his hammer,and has been trapped under thousands of tons of earth before I think he can take a beat. Whats next speedblitz? The one move Superman does when he realizes he can't really win (unless your talking about when he did it to mongul and Ultraman). Loki can move at the speed of thought and can casually dodge Thor's hammer like you would dodge basketball from across the court.

Then we have the magic factor. Its Loki's fight.

oh. well, then, i concede. no expression

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by kakuzu
Loki hands down. What Superman gonna do laser vision him? Loki turns his laser vision is a dragon and now Superman has to fight Loki and a Dragon that they both created. Whats superman going to do physically hurt him? He's taking a beating from Thor and his hammer,and has been trapped under thousands of tons of earth before I think he can take a beat. Whats next speedblitz? The one move Superman does when he realizes he can't really win (unless your talking about when he did it to mongul and Ultraman). Loki can move at the speed of thought and can casually dodge Thor's hammer like you would dodge basketball from across the court.

Then we have the magic factor. Its Loki's fight.

This would be the greatest damn crossover ever.

Enyalus
Originally posted by leonidas
and in direct melee thor has kicked his arse so why wouldn't it work for kal exactly? again, what is loki going to do to put kal down for good? blasts? no chance. he's not transmuting him (he needed surtur's power to change thor and when thor got back to asgard and was po'd he smacked loki around like a child). illusions could buy him time, animating stuff could buy, going astral/intangible could buy him time, but what will he do exactly that will ko supes? people say this is a bad match for kal, but frankly, this type of 1on1 physical confrontation is also very bad for loki. i'll gladly admit to being wrong in this case if someone wants to make a REAL case for loki somewhere. erm.
Loki's went toe-to-toe with Thor physically before. Several times. So he's no slouch when it comes to slugfests.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/thor_207_17.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Journey_in_to_mystery108-15.jpg

^ Two examples provided in the respect thread. He's also not slow, or even close to it. And as for the other argument added later, that Supes simply needs to tag him faster than Loki can say his spells in his head...he casts his spells at the speed of thought. You want to guess on how fast gods can think? Especially one of the most intelligent gods out there? Be my guest.

Also, we're not talking about some meta-level magician in Loki. Even Loki's astral form (because his physical form was bound by Odin and still in Asgard) was able to easily overpower Classic Doctor Strange:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Loki_vs_Drstrange1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Loki_vs_Drstrange2.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Loki_vs_Drstrange3.jpg ...Etc.

Oh, and I didn't even know this 'til I actually went to the respect thread, but if Loki's still got this Supes is definitely f*cked:
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Loki's dagger is Mjolnir's equal and Loki can will the blade into another dimension, similar to Jonzz's phasing.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Journey_in_to_mystery115-02.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Journey_in_to_mystery115-04.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Journey_in_to_mystery115-05.jpg
(I doubt he does, but what the hell. I learned something. Figured I'd show it off.)

manx422
Superman

KidMan
Superman STOMPS

Blanket
Originally posted by KidMan
Superman STOMPS the ground in protest after Loki turns him into a dildo.

the ninjak
Originally posted by Blanket
the ground in protest after Loki turns him into a dildo.

It will be red and blue and solar powered.
And he'll give it to Lois saying "He wasn't as hard as thought he was going to be!"

Warlord
Originally posted by Blanket
the ground in protest after Loki turns him into a dildo.

laughing out loud

KidMan
Superman Stomps

the ninjak
Originally posted by KidMan
Superman Stomps

Kidman are you CallmeCommando? It would make alot of sense considering he and Manx422 are rabid DC fanboys who post STOMP alot!
And Commando was restricted yesterday.

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