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Who win and no bfring.

DD takes care of Seid very quickly and Thanos takes care of Odin.

Team 2. HP DD will go down to either Odin or Seid and leave Thanos 2 v 1

Originally posted by quanchi112
DD takes care of Seid very quickly and Thanos takes care of Odin.
False and False.
Thanos loses to Odin and Darkseid kills DD with the OE long enough to constitute a forum win.

With no bfr I don't see how HP DD can lose. He can adapt with each attack and can one shot both members on team 2. with a claw shot through their brains (like when he made it go through Superman's shoulder like liquid).

Originally posted by h1a8
With no bfr I don't see how HP DD can lose. He can adapt with each attack and can one shot both members on team 2. with a claw shot through their brains (like when he made it go through Superman's shoulder like liquid). Odin won't go down that easy, nor will Darkseid. We never saw Darkseid going all out against DD, he blasted him with the OE and then turned his back and got cheap shotted.

Originally posted by h1a8
With no bfr I don't see how HP DD can lose. He can adapt with each attack and can one shot both members on team 2. with a claw shot through their brains (like when he made it go through Superman's shoulder like liquid).

Doomsday isnt shooting anything through Odin.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
False and False.
Thanos loses to Odin and Darkseid kills DD with the OE long enough to constitute a forum win. Thanos is more powerful since their first fight and DD already went through the ob's.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos is more powerful since their first fight and DD already went through the ob's.
Its not like Doomsday laughed them off. He got pile-driven by them into the ground and was down long enough for Darkseid to give a speech and drop his guard. Darkseid hits DD with the OE which can take him out long enough for Odin and DS to hit Thanos with a combined attack that will take him down leaving Doomsday to fight Odin and Darkseid by himself. A battle DD won't win.

Team 2.

Team 2

Odin and Darkseid.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Its not like Doomsday laughed them off. He got pile-driven by them into the ground and was down long enough for Darkseid to give a speech and drop his guard. Darkseid hits DD with the OE which can take him out long enough for Odin and DS to hit Thanos with a combined attack that will take him down leaving Doomsday to fight Odin and Darkseid by himself. A battle DD won't win. Huh? We saw the writer explain in that story DD would take every single matchup against darkseid so regardless of you misinterpreting it incorrectly the writer clarified his own work. He was only buried beneath rubble anyways. he beat Seid within 2-3 panels.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Its not like Doomsday laughed them off. He got pile-driven by them into the ground and was down long enough for Darkseid to give a speech and drop his guard. Darkseid hits DD with the OE which can take him out long enough for Odin and DS to hit Thanos with a combined attack that will take him down leaving Doomsday to fight Odin and Darkseid by himself. A battle DD won't win.

The OE will do nothing to DD (especially a second time). Remember DD can attack before a response. He can also shoot his claws out faster than a response. If the claws connect well then it is an instant win.

He can also adapt on the fly.
This alone proves he will not lose here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Huh? We saw the writer explain in that story DD would take every single matchup against darkseid so regardless of you misinterpreting it incorrectly the writer clarified his own work. He was only buried beneath rubble anyways. he beat Seid within 2-3 panels.
Again you're going to pull up Dan Jurgen's lulworthy beliefs? Put that pony to rest already. Jurgens thinks the Odin Force is only planetary level power for Odin's sake!

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Again you're going to pull up Dan Jurgen's lulworthy beliefs? Put that pony to rest already. Jurgens thinks the Odin Force is only planetary level power for Odin's sake! That's neither here nor there. Under his pen the odinforce is still powerful not maybe not powerful enough to destroy galaxies I can live with that because it's jurgens work. I also read the book and saw DD easily take the blast and then rip him a new one in 2-3 panels and have to deal with you not comprehending what the writer made perfectly clear.


In hp DD stomps Darkseid all day.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's neither here nor there. Under his pen the odinforce is still powerful not maybe not powerful enough to destroy galaxies I can live with that because it's jurgens work. I also read the book and saw DD easily take the blast and then rip him a new one in 2-3 panels and have to deal with you not comprehending what the writer made perfectly clear.


In hp DD stomps Darkseid all day.
He didn't take the blast easily. He got owned by it but bounced back after Darkseid had let his guard down. DD didn't beat Darkseid in h/h because it wasn't a fight anymore than the Drax incident in Annihilation Wave was a fight. It was a cheap shot. No matter what the crackpot writer says all the comics show is that Doomsday can beat Darkseid with a cheap shot to the back when said New God's guard is down. I can live with that.

Team 2, seriously.

I would agree with team 2 if someone can post a very logical argument of how can either member put down DD without bfr (even if DD just stands there and not attack). Because I don't see anyone of them affecting him. And if they do then he simply adapts.

Originally posted by h1a8
I would agree with team 2 if someone can post a very logical argument of how can either member put down DD without bfr (even if DD just stands there and not attack). Because I don't see anyone of them affecting him. And if they do then he simply adapts.
Odin's Galaxy busting power plus full power OE will be more than enough to put him down for long enough to constitute a forum win.

Odin blasts him with the OF, killing him long enough to constitute a KO/Kill.

Not hard to understand.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He didn't take the blast easily. He got owned by it but bounced back after Darkseid had let his guard down. DD didn't beat Darkseid in h/h because it wasn't a fight anymore than the Drax incident in Annihilation Wave was a fight. It was a cheap shot. No matter what the crackpot writer says all the comics show is that Doomsday can beat Darkseid with a cheap shot to the back when said New God's guard is down. I can live with that. Again, the blast buried him beneath rubb;e and the writer stated Darkseid has no chance against Hp DD. You saying he doesn't shows you want to ignore the writer's own thoughts over his own work.

In that arc, Darkseid knocked down Doomsday, but he didn't knock him out.

I don't think anyone here can knock him down permanently, since he would adapt almost instantly and recover from a knockdown in mere seconds. They can easily remove him from the battlefield though.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Odin's Galaxy busting power plus full power OE will be more than enough to put him down for long enough to constitute a forum win.

Odin doesn't have galaxy busting power. I've seen the scans already and still say this. Figure why I say this.

Also the OE and OF can't put a scratch on DD. Even if they could he would simply adapt passed it. A forum win requires a ko and not being bfr (since it isn't allowed here). HP DD has never been koed by the OE or anything else.

Darkseid/Odin

Originally posted by -Pr-
Team 2.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again, the blast buried him beneath rubb;e and the writer stated Darkseid has no chance against Hp DD. You saying he doesn't shows you want to ignore the writer's own thoughts over his own work.
Yeah I will ignore his thoughts because the guy is an idiot who can't tell his ass from his own head. He's still a little smarter than you though.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yeah I will ignore his thoughts because the guy is an idiot who can't tell his ass from his own head. He's still a little smarter than you though.
Sorry, but this is too funny I just had to laugh

H1a8.... give it a rest already. Ooo and Omega... he's 100x worse than Quan and you know it. You just happen to argue with Quan more.. but really... DD can one shot DS and Odin LuL.

H1a8... Odin can manipulate time, has transmutation powers, reality warping powers.. along with many other options. DS also has many options. No simple "adapting" brick is going to beat them. In fact he goes down before Thanos.. leaving him to fight the other 2 by himself. You think he evolves so quickly... yet there are things he's NEVER evolved past. He doesn't just evolve past anything that can damage him. The fact is... DD gets wrecked first and leaves Thanos to lose to the other 2 eventually.

DD one shots ODIN hahahahahaha

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
H1a8.... give it a rest already. Ooo and Omega... he's 100x worse than Quan and you know it. You just happen to argue with Quan more.. but really... DD can one shot DS and Odin LuL.

I don't know about 100x. Sure DD oneshotting Odin and Darkseid at the same time is lulzy but so is "Thanos traps Mordru in a Force Block".

Anyways Team 2 still wins.

Pretty sure DS KOed DD with his Omega Beams. Didn't last that long, but he was KOed by them.

Darkseid and Odin win. Every time. Regardless of whether or not people think Odin > Thanos or Darkseid > Thanos, he can't handle them both here. Doomsday could very well take another shot from the Omega Beams are be KOed, or fall to Odin's versatility and outright energy output. He probably goes down first--though he's a hell of a tough out--and Thanos gets taken by the duo.

PS: Lulz at "Odin doesn't have galaxy busting power."

Originally posted by Harbinger
Pretty sure DS KOed DD with his Omega Beams. Didn't last that long, but he was KOed by them.

Darkseid and Odin win. Every time. Regardless of whether or not people think Odin > Thanos or Darkseid > Thanos, he can't handle them both here. Doomsday could very well take another shot from the Omega Beams are be KOed, or fall to Odin's versatility and outright energy output. He probably goes down first--though he's a hell of a tough out--and Thanos gets taken by the duo.

PS: Lulz at "Odin doesn't have galaxy busting power."


Your arse is about to get struck by lightning because DS never koed DD.
We never saw DD unconscious, just buried. Even so the OE will have 0 effect on him now. Odin can't hurt him either and even if he can, DD simply adapts past it. This is assuming that DD doesn't instantly kill one of the members with a claw shot to the brain.

Please you guys, stop forgetting that DD can adapt on the fly.

Originally posted by h1a8
Your arse is about to get struck by lightning
Are you propositioning me?

id really like to see what thanos can do theses days with his new upgrades. And a thanos vs odin rematch would be divine.

Originally posted by h1a8
Your arse is about to get struck by lightning because DS never koed DD.
We never saw DD unconscious, just buried. Even so the OE will have 0 effect on him now. Odin can't hurt him either and even if he can, DD simply adapts past it. This is assuming that DD doesn't instantly kill one of the members with a claw shot to the brain.

Please you guys, stop forgetting that DD can adapt on the fly.

Isn't there a ban for repeated stupidity?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Isn't there a ban for repeated stupidity?
If there was about a fifth of the versus forum's population would have been banned long ago.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yeah I will ignore his thoughts because the guy is an idiot who can't tell his ass from his own head. He's still a little smarter than you though. He's the guy who gave us hp DD. You ignoring the writer's own perspective on something he wrote is asinine.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't know about 100x. Sure DD oneshotting Odin and Darkseid at the same time is lulzy but so is "Thanos traps Mordru in a Force Block".

Anyways Team 2 still wins. Thanos beat Thor with it so why is it ridiculous?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He's the guy who gave us hp DD. You ignoring the writer's own perspective on something he wrote is asinine.
Thanos beat Thor with it so why is it ridiculous?
Because almost every incarnation of Mordru>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thor

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Because almost every incarnation of Mordru>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thor Thor had the power gem.

t2

Odin can pwn Thanos just like he did in Thor vl2 I believe or whenever Thor went crazy. Darkseid and Doomsday means Darkseid wins. Doomsday isn't needed in the universe so Darkseids beams can easily get rid of him. Easy fight really.

Originally posted by kakuzu
Odin can pwn Thanos just like he did in Thor vl2 I believe or whenever Thor went crazy. Darkseid and Doomsday means Darkseid wins. Doomsday isn't needed in the universe so Darkseids beams can easily get rid of him. Easy fight really. Darkseid's beams failed before so I see no reason why they work now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid's beams failed before so I see no reason why they work now.

Clearly you didn't read the comic entirely, I'll fill you in. That wasn't' the real Darkseid that was a fake the real one was watching from a window far away, the two never really met. If the real one had used his beams you think Doomsday would have lived so long? DC can't bring him back if he truly dies like that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor had the power gem.

And he didn't tap into it very good. You know, this happens, Thor beat the IW and defeated Drax (who had the PG).

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
And he didn't tap into it very good. You know, this happens, Thor beat the IW and defeated Drax (who had the PG).
Yeah the Power Gem really didn't increase his power all that much and it clearly didn't stop Drax from getting beaten by regular Thor.

The reason why Thor didn't really tap into it was unknown but they didn't want to give him a chance. I think it was due to the fact he was already in warriors madness it would have taken time for him to tap in. Even Thanos admitted now that he had the gem and in his current state he was a universal threat. Yeah Thor did kind of pwn the infinity guys with out the gem but he was also is warriors madness as well.

Originally posted by kakuzu
Clearly you didn't read the comic entirely, I'll fill you in. That wasn't' the real Darkseid that was a fake the real one was watching from a window far away, the two never really met. If the real one had used his beams you think Doomsday would have lived so long? DC can't bring him back if he truly dies like that. The writer clearly stated it was the real deal. Superman saved him.Originally posted by Batman-Prime
And he didn't tap into it very good. You know, this happens, Thor beat the IW and defeated Drax (who had the PG). Drax was an idiot with it not Thor. Thor was someone even classic strange couldn't deal with along with an entire group. That's called being a force.

Thor is a much bigger deal than Drax and didn't swallow the gem. Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yeah the Power Gem really didn't increase his power all that much and it clearly didn't stop Drax from getting beaten by regular Thor. Because he swallowed it. Prior to that Thor was unable to best him based on the power gem and his inability to take it off of him. Drax was unkoable in that instance.

Team 2 wins. Each and every time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The writer clearly stated it was the real deal. Superman saved him. Drax was an idiot with it not Thor. Thor was someone even classic strange couldn't deal with along with an entire group. That's called being a force.

Thor is a much bigger deal than Drax and didn't swallow the gem. Because he swallowed it. Prior to that Thor was unable to best him based on the power gem and his inability to take it off of him. Drax was unkoable in that instance.

Your horrible wrong that was a fake Darkseid you really didn't read it did you? The real one was watching from the side lines I'll even post it.

Originally posted by kakuzu
Your horrible wrong that was a fake Darkseid you really didn't read it did you? The real one was watching from the side lines I'll even post it. Do so.

I do agree that pretty much every version of Mordru > than Thor and Thor with PG... However, it should be noted that Mordru has a certain weakness that might make the FB actually work well.

Wouldn't that entail Mordru being trapped long enough for Thanos to bury him? I doubt Mordru stays contained long enough for that to happen.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I do agree that pretty much every version of Mordru > than Thor and Thor with PG... However, it should be noted that Mordru has a certain weakness that might make the FB actually work well.
He'd break out of it as easily as Odin did. If he can break free from the ROE and can beat up Thunderbolt and escape from his Pen he can break the FB.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He'd break out of it as easily as Odin did. If he can break free from the ROE and can beat up Thunderbolt and escape from his Pen he can break the FB. I for one don't see Mordru as powerful as odin so I disagree there.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I for one don't see Mordru as powerful as odin so I disagree there.
Mordru's highest showings put him above Odin, even the relatively weaker Mordru from JSA was able to own a Thunderbolt in its own pen.
Thunderbolt>>>Forceblock.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Mordru's highest showings put him above Odin, even the relatively weaker Mordru from JSA was able to own a Thunderbolt in its own pen.
Thunderbolt>>>Forceblock. That doesn't put him above Odin. Sorry, it just doesn't.

I think forceblock beats Mordru. Let's get back on topic though.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Mordru's highest showings put him above Odin, even the relatively weaker Mordru from JSA was able to own a Thunderbolt in its own pen.
Thunderbolt>>>Forceblock.

that puts him above Odin.

i don't agree Mordru is above odin by any stretch of the imagination. However, I do agree that Mordru should be able to get of the FB much the same way Odin did.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
i don't agree Mordru is above odin by any stretch of the imagination. However, I do agree that Mordru should be able to get of the FB much the same way Odin did.
In the end it doesn't matter which one is stronger because both of them are clearly powerful enough to bust out of the Force Block.

Originally posted by kakuzu
Clearly you didn't read the comic entirely, I'll fill you in. That wasn't' the real Darkseid that was a fake the real one was watching from a window far away, the two never really met. If the real one had used his beams you think Doomsday would have lived so long? DC can't bring him back if he truly dies like that.

First of all you need to prove that wasn't the real DS. Second, you need to prove that the fake's OE is not really an OE (especially when we see it instantly vaporize erase material that Superman couldn't even scratch).

Odin takes both opponents out with a galaxy busting blast.

DD nor Thanos is tanking that.

Odin and Darkseid easily

Team 2 10/10

Originally posted by Enyalus
Odin takes both opponents out with a galaxy busting blast.

DD nor Thanos is tanking that.

Odin can't do a galaxy busting blast.

DS and Odin takes this 8/10

Darkseid/Odin

Originally posted by h1a8
Odin can't do a galaxy busting blast.

Except he has.

Amusing thread.

Of course Odin`s team wins.

Originally posted by h1a8
Odin can't do a galaxy busting blast.
What this guy said:
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except he has.
Multiple times.

Odin solos. Oh and what up Enyalus long time no see.

Naija, my man. Good to see you again.

You too man. ive been trying to take a hiatus from the forum but i decided to just check in and saw u were back. what kept u?

Originally posted by Naija boy
You too man. ive been trying to take a hiatus from the forum but i decided to just check in and saw u were back. what kept u?
I stopped reading comics for...months, to focus more on my classwork. So I stopped coming here. Recently got back into it...read Siege #2 and saw WTF happened to Ares, decided to come back and discuss it lol.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I stopped reading comics for...months, to focus more on my classwork. So I stopped coming here. Recently got back into it...read Siege #2 and saw WTF happened to Ares, decided to come back and discuss it lol.

lol. same here. ive fallen so far behind on all the Marvel/DC events. I returned to see Sentry defeating molecule man and was wondering what the hell was going on. Now with the long awaited Sentry vs Thor fight coming up i think im going to postpone my break from comics until after that fight.. Rooting for thor of course but im a bit worried about his chances.

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol. same here. ive fallen so far behind on all the Marvel/DC events. I returned to see Sentry defeating molecule man and was wondering what the hell was going on. Now with the long awaited Sentry vs Thor fight coming up i think im going to postpone my break from comics until after that fight.. Rooting for thor of course but im a bit worried about his chances.
Here's a hint, Thor's going to lose. Sadly. lol. At least though they're finally developing Sentry and giving him respect. They did the same for Nova before that. I wish they'd done so to Glads with War of Kings, but maybe Realm of Kings'll set that right.

The break was great for me. I got to read some old Strange Tales, reread some classic Surfer issues, and get caught up on the infinitely confusing (number wise) and massive New Krypton stuff.

Also, Odin solos. To reiterate.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Here's a hint, Thor's going to lose. Sadly. lol. At least though they're finally developing Sentry and giving him respect. They did the same for Nova before that. I wish they'd done so to Glads with War of Kings, but maybe Realm of Kings'll set that right.

The break was great for me. I got to read some old Strange Tales, reread some classic Surfer issues, and get caught up on the infinitely confusing (number wise) and massive New Krypton stuff.

Also, Odin solos. To reiterate.

lol, it certainly seems likely...........but heh, he is weakened afterall . Still im holding out hope that this will end up sort of like Silver surfer vs beta ray bill, (with thor being silver surfer in this case) with Sentry pissing off thor to the point where he starts busting out the Durok dropper type lighting bolts, and maybe seals his essence inside his hammer.

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol, it certainly seems likely...........but heh, he is weakened afterall . Still im holding out hope that this will end up sort of like Silver surfer vs beta ray bill, (with thor being silver surfer in this case) with Sentry pissing off thor to the point where he starts busting out the Durok dropper type lighting bolts, and maybe seals his essence inside his hammer.

That would be awesome. I don't know how exactly Thor puts down Voidtry, but anything other than Thor kicking his ass will be a letdown for me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That would be awesome. I don't know how exactly Thor puts down Voidtry, but anything other than Thor kicking his ass will be a letdown for me.
Amen.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except he has.

Except he hasn't.

And even if he has (which he didn't) then he has to have shown it at least twice (or thrice I think) to prove non PIS (new forum rules).

Originally posted by Enyalus
Odin takes both opponents out with a galaxy busting blast.

DD nor Thanos is tanking that. How often has Odin done this in battle?

Neither member on team 2 can beat DD without BFR. If Odin even manages to hurt DD then DD simply adapts past it. This is assuming that DD doesn't claw shot through Odin's brain before Odin can act.

Originally posted by h1a8
Neither member on team 2 can beat DD without BFR. If Odin even manages to hurt DD then DD simply adapts past it. This is assuming that DD doesn't claw shot through Odin's brain before Odin can act. Odin could defeat DD with ease.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Odin could defeat DD with ease.

How so? DD can withstand any of Odin's attacks and evolve past them. Odin could bfr him if DD hesitates yes, but this fight doesn't have bfr options.

Originally posted by h1a8
How so? DD can withstand any of Odin's attacks and evolve past them. Odin could bfr him if DD hesitates yes, but this fight doesn't have bfr options. Odin can kill him in one attack. The writer also stated of hp that if Superman had a different upbringing and went all out he'd beat DD. The writer even agrees DD is nowhere near as unbeatable as you have him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Odin can kill him in one attack. The writer also stated of hp that if Superman had a different upbringing and went all out he'd beat DD. The writer even agrees DD is nowhere near as unbeatable as you have him.

Several writers wrote DD, I'm referring to the writer of HP DD (Jurgens) and this writer's opinion is that nothing in the universe can kill HP DD except the end of time. That is why he had HP DD tank the OE without ever experiencing (die from) it first. Now the reason Odin can't kill HP DD in one attack is because Odin failed to kill many beings in one attack (Thanos included) that were far less durable than HP DD.

Also HP DD is more durable than all material that planets or stars are made of (including diamonds).

Originally posted by h1a8
(even if DD just stands there and not attack). Odin Time Stop

Originally posted by h1a8
Several writers wrote DD, I'm referring to the writer of HP DD (Jurgens) and this writer's opinion is that nothing in the universe can kill HP DD except the end of time. That is why he had HP DD tank the OE without ever experiencing (die from) it first. Now the reason Odin can't kill HP DD in one attack is because Odin failed to kill many beings in one attack (Thanos included) that were far less durable than HP DD.

Also HP DD is more durable than all material that planets or stars are made of (including diamonds). Jurgens is the writer who stated this making your insane notions of DD insane and contradictory to what jurgens intended.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Jurgens is the writer who stated this making your insane notions of DD insane and contradictory to what jurgens intended.

He couldn't have stated it since his very opinion on HP was that nothing but the end of time can kill him. Now writer's opinions now are not valid to the original opinions that occurred when they wrote the comic at question.


For example, remember in HP where Superman with all his might couldn't put a scratch on the missiles he was trying to stop. These missiles were made of some adamantium like indestructible metal. Yet DS from miles away made them become instant vapor with a single OE beam (usually both beams hit a target).

Now DD got hit with the same OE but with both beams simultaneously and at point blank range. Yet there was no shown damage at all to DD.

This alone proves that there is nothing Odin can do kill DD (except through a BFR).

Originally posted by h1a8
He couldn't have stated it since his very opinion on HP was that nothing but the end of time can kill him. Now writer's opinions now are not valid to the original opinions that occurred when they wrote the comic at question.


For example, remember in HP where Superman with all his might couldn't put a scratch on the missiles he was trying to stop. These missiles were made of some adamantium like indestructible metal. Yet DS from miles away made them become instant vapor with a single OE beam (usually both beams hit a target).

Now DD got hit with the same OE but with both beams simultaneously and at point blank range. Yet there was no shown damage at all to DD.

This alone proves that there is nothing Odin can do kill DD (except through a BFR). Actually, he did in an interview. You misinterpreted it wrong. can't say I am surprised.

Odin's a lot more powerful than ds's omega beams. Again, like I said you are ignorant and not aware of the interview like many other things.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Jurgens is the writer who stated this making your insane notions of DD insane and contradictory to what jurgens intended.
Jurgens has a history of making insane and contradictory statements. In H/P we saw a Doomsday who was far beyond Superman. His 'upbringing' theory is crap, something that you yourself have refuted in other cases. Under that theory Superman would be SBP level if he hadn't been raised in Smallville. You've made a point of stating that SBP is simply more powerful than Superman and have shot-down any proposal that its mostly (or entirely) due to the differences in their upbringing and psyches.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Jurgens has a history of making insane and contradictory statements. In H/P we saw a Doomsday who was far beyond Superman. His 'upbringing' theory is crap, something that you yourself have refuted in other cases. Under that theory Superman would be SBP level if he hadn't been raised in Smallville. You've made a point of stating that SBP is simply more powerful than Superman and have shot-down any proposal that its mostly (or entirely) due to the differences in their upbringing and psyches. No, actually he doesn't. There was one ridiculous statement he refuted while he stuck to the rest. If you have any other examples in which he took back then feel free to explain them.

No, he wouldn't be Prime level as I see Prime whipping the dog crap out of DD each and every time.


It's common sense to assume had Superman been raised on apokolips he would indeed be far more dangerous.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, actually he doesn't. There was one ridiculous statement he refuted while he stuck to the rest. If you have any other examples in which he took back then feel free to explain them.

No, he wouldn't be Prime level as I see Prime whipping the dog crap out of DD each and every time.


It's common sense to assume had Superman been raised on apokolips he would indeed be far more dangerous.
You're getting into hypotheticals. Not to mention authors' statements are never solid evidence in a Vs debate. Stop using that crappy interview as if its admissible evidence.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You're getting into hypotheticals. Not to mention authors' statements are never solid evidence in a Vs debate. Stop using that crappy interview as if its admissible evidence. It's admissible here as posters are stating DD is practically unbeatable when his own writer states an all out Superman raised differently beats him. Upon reading this interview and getting the writer's insight my perceptions of DD went way down.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's admissible here as posters are stating DD is practically unbeatable when his own writer states an all out Superman raised differently beats him. Upon reading this interview and getting the writer's insight my perceptions of DD went way down.
Interview=/=on panel statements or feats. In the course of H/P Jurgens gives no indications that DD isn't above Superman. Also his claims that DD would beat DS 10/10 aren't backed up at all by what he actually wrote in the comic where the only confrontation we see is an over-confident Darkseid knocking DD down and out long enough to give a speech before dropping his guard and getting cheapshotted from behind.

It would be the same if I wrote a story in which I have Character A going over Character B (even more so if it was under specific circumstances). If Character B clearly had more feats and the repeatedly shown power to warrant him winning over A, even if I did an interview wanking Character A non-stop, my statement, even as a writer for the story, shouldn't be used as the honest-to-god truth regarding who would win in a forum setting. Interviews are nice to see why a writer did what they did or where they were coming from, but you really can't use them as "proof" so-to-speak.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Interview=/=on panel statements or feats. In the course of H/P Jurgens gives no indications that DD isn't above Superman. Also his claims that DD would beat DS 10/10 aren't backed up at all by what he actually wrote in the comic where the only confrontation we see is an over-confident Darkseid knocking DD down and out long enough to give a speech before dropping his guard and getting cheapshotted from behind. Yes, they are. In the comic Superman was actually psychologically fearful of DD. The whole comic showed even Superman fears the baddies every once in a while and this is one foe he was actually afraid of putting him at a disadvantage. This was also a weaker superman so add that to the fact DD wasn't unbeatable he is just above Darkseid and a fearful Superman not an all out one like he stated in his interview.

DD's feats in the book weren't really that impressive anyways.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It would be the same if I wrote a story in which I have Character A going over Character B (even more so if it was under specific circumstances). If Character B clearly had more feats and the repeatedly shown power to warrant him winning over A, even if I did an interview wanking Character A non-stop, my statement, even as a writer for the story, shouldn't be used as the honest-to-god truth regarding who would win in a forum setting. Interviews are nice to see why a writer did what they did or where they were coming from, but you really can't use them as "proof" so-to-speak.

True. Interviews are good for clearing up the specifics of a story, not much beyond that.

Originally posted by Allankles
True. Interviews are good for clearing up the specifics of a story, not much beyond that. Like clearing up the myth DD was far beyond Superman or any other top tier for that matter.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Like clearing up the myth DD was far beyond Superman or any other top tier for that matter.

He was above a lot of people including a weaker Superman during that story and that part of the continuity.

The way DS and Superman are written post IC and 52, HP DD wouldn't be that great of a threat.

Originally posted by Allankles
He was above a lot of people including a weaker Superman during that story and that part of the continuity.

The way DS and Superman are written post IC and 52, HP DD wouldn't be that great of a threat. I just don't see Dd being anything more than an elite top tier myself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How often has Odin done this in battle?
Twice, I believe. One was in battle against the head of the enchanters IIRC (between Thor 144-147) and the other might have been against Surtur, but I'm not positive.



Also, I thought I had already disproved this myth of HP DD's "instantaneous adaptation?" Months ago.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, they are. In the comic Superman was actually psychologically fearful of DD. The whole comic showed even Superman fears the baddies every once in a while and this is one foe he was actually afraid of putting him at a disadvantage. This was also a weaker superman so add that to the fact DD wasn't unbeatable he is just above Darkseid and a fearful Superman not an all out one like he stated in his interview.

DD's feats in the book weren't really that impressive anyways.
No they really aren't. Interviews may or may not constitute canon when mainstream comics are concerned but they certainly aren't worth crap in a forum debate.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Twice, I believe. One was in battle against the head of the enchanters IIRC (between Thor 144-147) and the other might have been against Surtur, but I'm not positive.



Also, I thought I had already disproved this myth of HP DD's "instantaneous adaptation?" Months ago. Some people still cling to the idea DD is practically unbeatable still and will never give up their dc chest beating ways.

I don't see Odin wrecking galaxies as a justification for him winning her for the majority. There's also the shields if he does bring them to bear.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
No they really aren't. Interviews may or may not constitute canon when mainstream comics are concerned but they certainly aren't worth crap in a forum debate. Yes, they are when it shoots down the idea DD is practically above injury and defeat. His own writer states your wrong and I am right. Feel the burn.

Originally posted by quanchi112


Yes, they are when it shoots down the idea DD is practically above injury and defeat. His own writer states your wrong and I am right. Feel the burn.
The words "yes they are when" implies one thing: "they're canon if I want them to be and when they agree with my lowballed or wanked views of certain characters." If Starlin said in an interview that regular Thanos could beat LT (and I bet he would too if someone asked the question directly) would you consider that canon too in spite of the evidence?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The words "yes they are when" implies one thing: "they're canon if I want them to be and when they agree with my lowballed or wanked views of certain characters." If Starlin said in an interview that regular Thanos could beat LT (and I bet he would too if someone asked the question directly) would you consider that canon too in spite of the evidence? Not unless he was referring to a story where he had the power to do so. Starlin wouldn't state Thanos could defeat Lt straight up anyways and jurgens was giving his opinion about a character he wrote in hp. Some can choose to ignore it but I certainly won't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not unless he was referring to a story where he had the power to do so. Starlin wouldn't state Thanos could defeat Lt straight up anyways and jurgens was giving his opinion about a character he wrote in hp. Some can choose to ignore it but I certainly won't.
The fact that I can ignore it means that it isn't as good as on-panel showings that are a lot more difficult to ignore (though I have ignored them on certain occasions to my own shame and you make a habit of ignoring them every day).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The fact that I can ignore it means that it isn't as good as on-panel showings that are a lot more difficult to ignore (though I have ignored them on certain occasions to my own shame and you make a habit of ignoring them every day). I have explained why that was it was a weaker Superman and he was psychologically effected. The writer doesn't state DD is even close to undefeatable. he can still be beaten to death physically which I have always stated.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have explained why that was it was a weaker Superman and he was psychologically effected. The writer doesn't state DD is even close to undefeatable. he can still be beaten to death physically which I have always stated.
And yet in the comic itself they defeated him by stranding him at the End of Time. Hmm...

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And yet in the comic itself they defeated him by stranding him at the End of Time. Hmm... That doesn't mean it was the only way. That's like saying Thanos bfring champ was the only way he could beat him. The writer stated he's not physically unbeatable and we have also seen Imperiex oneshot him since.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't mean it was the only way. That's like saying Thanos bfring champ was the only way he could beat him. The writer stated he's not physically unbeatable and we have also seen Imperiex oneshot him since.
Imperiex's blast and Superman's fists are very different. The implication of H/P was that Superman couldn't beat Doomsday physically.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Imperiex's blast and Superman's fists are very different. The implication of H/P was that Superman couldn't beat Doomsday physically. Because he wasn't powerful enough?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Imperiex's blast and Superman's fists are very different. The implication of H/P was that Superman couldn't beat Doomsday physically. The writer further expounded he can with the right mindset. It's like you want to interpret it however you want despite what the writer intended for us. That's the definition of fanboyism.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The writer further expounded he can with the right mindset. It's like you want to interpret it however you want despite what the writer intended for us. That's the definition of fanboyism.
I don't care what a writer with controversial (and more to the point, idiotic) opinions thinks. Its obvious DC editorial wouldn't allow him to show any of his crap on panel so he added it ex post facto in an interview that you put way too much stock in.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't care what a writer with controversial (and more to the point, idiotic) opinions thinks. Its obvious DC editorial wouldn't allow him to show any of his crap on panel so he added it ex post facto in an interview that you put way too much stock in. He created hp Doomsday so if you won't listen to him you shouldn't post in threads concerning hp.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He created hp Doomsday so if you won't listen to him you shouldn't post in threads concerning hp.
Creating a character doesn't make you an end-all-be-all authority on said character, particularly when your commentary doesn't mesh with what you actually wrote. Its like Pak with WWH, if he had his way Hulk would have stomped Galactus and done a lot of shit he never did and could never have done.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Creating a character doesn't make you an end-all-be-all authority on said character, particularly when your commentary doesn't mesh with what you actually wrote. Its like Pak with WWH, if he had his way Hulk would have stomped Galactus and done a lot of shit he never did and could never have done. He wrote it and he explained himself. You not wanting to listen to the writer means you're too emotionally tied to the characters to weigh in.

Too emotionally tied into the character.

Quanchi said that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He wrote it and he explained himself. You not wanting to listen to the writer means you're too emotionally tied to the characters to weigh in.
What you think I'm a Doomsday fanboy? Hell no. Besides this is a wonderful case of you, Mr. Pot pointing out the Kettle's blackness.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What you think I'm a Doomsday fanboy? Hell no. Besides this is a wonderful case of you, Mr. Pot pointing out the Kettle's blackness. If you disregard the writer's own statements concerning his own story then you aren't to be reasoned with.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you disregard the writer's own statements concerning his own story then you aren't to be reasoned with.
Writer statements aren't considered evidence in versus debates.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Writer statements aren't considered evidence in versus debates. I never said they were the ultimate deciders but based on his statements and common sense DD can still die by physical means and his own writer agrees.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said they were the ultimate deciders but based on his statements and common sense DD can still die by physical means and his own writer agrees.
I know that, I just don't think Superman at the time of H/P had the power to do it. If he did he would have rather than stranding DD at the end of time.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I know that, I just don't think Superman at the time of H/P had the power to do it. If he did he would have rather than stranding DD at the end of time. Neither do I because he didn't have the proper upbringing.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I know that, I just don't think Superman at the time of H/P had the power to do it.
Agreed. Both Current version of Supes though and Current version of Darkseid have a good chance at it though, being physically upgraded since.

And of course, Odin.


(Note: I might have to recant my 'current' version of DS, as that last Turpin body looked pretty fragile and weak physically.)

Originally posted by Enyalus
Agreed. Both Current version of Supes though and Current version of Darkseid have a good chance at it though, being physically upgraded since.

And of course, Odin.


(Note: I might have to recant my 'current' version of DS, as that last Turpin body looked pretty fragile and weak physically.)

Turpin was just a vessel. The real Darkseid is that big thing falling down towards the Multiverse.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Turpin was just a vessel. The real Darkseid is that big thing falling down towards the Multiverse.
Okay. If he can physically pull down and crunch space/time, then safe to say current DS has enough physical power to beat H/P DD, hm?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Okay. If he can physically pull down and crunch space/time, then safe to say current DS has enough physical power to beat H/P DD, hm? No. He sucks.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Okay. If he can physically pull down and crunch space/time, then safe to say current DS has enough physical power to beat H/P DD, hm?

I think that his Avatar (OWAW for example) should have enough power to beat HP DD, though not physically.

As for this match. Odin would solo.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I think that his Avatar (OWAW for example) should have enough power to beat HP DD, though not physically.

As for this match. Odin would solo.
I actually believe that Darkseid's inconsistent performance since COIE can be explained by accepting that not all Avatars are created equal given that the implication of Final Crisis was that this was the first time the REAL Darkseid had ever actually entered the DCU Proper in full form, and that was when he was dying and he was still fvcking all of reality like it were a Vietnamese prostitute.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I actually believe that Darkseid's inconsistent performance since COIE can be explained by accepting that not all Avatars are created equal given that the implication of Final Crisis was that this was the first time the REAL Darkseid had ever actually entered the DCU Proper in full form.
The "Nothing like Darkseid has ever come among you before" line was standard comic book villain hyperbole talk...that's the way I took that, and Darkseid engages in plenty of it, throughout his history. He is a walking cliche and archetype afterall. Much like Emperor Palpatine or Skeletor or....Megatron. lol

Originally posted by quanchi112
Actually, he did in an interview. You misinterpreted it wrong. can't say I am surprised.

Odin's a lot more powerful than ds's omega beams. Again, like I said you are ignorant and not aware of the interview like many other things. I don't believe you as he pointed out the opposite instead.
You must not only prove exactly what he said in the interview (post it) but you must prove he said it in the time HP came out. Because Jurgens at the time of HP wrote DD to be beyond all forces in the universe, except the end of time.

DS's OE is arguably the most powerful beam in comicdom. The only beings that have survived were DD (because of shear durability) and a very very few beings only because of their essentiality to reality (Like Superman).

Odin's blasts hasn't vaporized on contact anyone herald level or above in his entire history. DS's OE has done so time and time again; it has instant vapored things far far beyond Superman in durability. Odin may have seriously hurt, koed, etc. with his blasts but never have they been portrayed as anything close to the OE. Hell when the OE is emitted from DS eyes the reader's are in terror as they know what they are capable of and what they are about to do. Not so with Odin's blasts which can and has been tanked time and time again.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The "Nothing like Darkseid has ever come among you before" line was standard comic book villain hyperbole talk...that's the way I took that, and Darkseid engages in plenty of it, throughout his history. He is a walking cliche and archetype afterall. Much like Emperor Palpatine or Skeletor or....Megatron. lol
I was referring to the fact that his true nature was revealed: an actual dark god who could possess a person and who's mere existence was poisoning reality. He was operating on a level beyond anything he had demonstrated before: Lovecraftian shit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, they are. In the comic Superman was actually psychologically fearful of DD. The whole comic showed even Superman fears the baddies every once in a while and this is one foe he was actually afraid of putting him at a disadvantage. This was also a weaker superman so add that to the fact DD wasn't unbeatable he is just above Darkseid and a fearful Superman not an all out one like he stated in his interview.

DD's feats in the book weren't really that impressive anyways.

The Superman in DOS was much weaker than current Superman but the Superman in HP was either equal or not far off from current Superman.


Remember the Lobo feat? Well HP Superman = or > than that Superman who hit Lobo.

Originally posted by Allankles


The way DS and Superman are written post IC and 52, HP DD wouldn't be that great of a threat.

I disagree because HP DD's upper limits were never shown. Hell the weaker Imperiex DD bust through probes like tissue paper in one blow. Neither OWAW Superman, IC, 52, etc. can't duplicate that feat. Now if his limits were shown then we can debate the issue. All we can go on is feats and implication. As far as feats HP Superman is basically as strong as he is now (the Lobo feat proves it). Also that Superman (the HP one) with all his might couldn't even put a scratch on the indestructible missles yet DS with a beam from miles away instant vapored them.

HP DD took that same blast (but two beams now and from point blank range) with no shown damage whatsoever.

Also HP D's claw went through Superman's shoulder like liquid. I don't know about you but that Superman is one of the most durable beings in comicdom (as he has the feats to back it up) and going through him like liquid is fu@king insane.

As far as implication, well Jurgens wrote HP DD to be now beyond death (nothing in the universe can kill him).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I was referring to the fact that his true nature was revealed: an actual dark god who could possess a person and who's mere existence was poisoning reality. He was operating on a level beyond anything he had demonstrated before: Lovecraftian shit.
+1 for the Lovecraft reference.

Originally posted by h1a8
Remember the Lobo feat? Well HP Superman = or > than that Superman who hit Lobo.
The Lobo feat thing doesn't really matter. Supes' powers were beginning to malfunction at that point in time. Just after that Supes becomes a gigantic hulking monster because of his cells and solar absorption acting up. His powers were amplified during that whole time.

Originally posted by Enyalus
+1 for the Lovecraft reference.

O Rlyeh?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
O Rlyeh?
You don't get multiple points for redundant references, but that was so awesome I might have to change my stance on that.

Originally posted by Enyalus



The Lobo feat thing doesn't really matter. Supes' powers were beginning to malfunction at that point in time. Just after that Supes becomes a gigantic hulking monster because of his cells and solar absorption acting up. His powers were amplified during that whole time.

Huh?
What issues did his powers malfunction again? Because I don't recall an issue retconning the Lobo feat.

Originally posted by h1a8
Remember the Lobo feat? Well HP Superman = or > than that Superman who hit Lobo.
As you were gracious enough to answer my PM, I'll lay this out a little better than I did before.

MoS #30:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SupesMOS-30-11.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SupesMOS-30-12.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SupesMOS-30-13.jpg

That is the Lobo feat you're referring to? And it's impressive. Damn impressive. But as you can see, he knows something's up. 3 issues later, its explained in a bit more detail:

MoS #33:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SupesMOS-33-02-03.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SupesMOS-33-08.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SupesMOS-33-10.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SupesMOS-33-11.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SupesMOS-33-16.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SupesMOS-33-17.jpg

They resolve it in Superman #89, if you want to check it out afterwards from that. But you can clearly see that the increase in Superman's power was unnatural and they fix it. So feats around this time, such as the one-shot Lobo thing, aren't typical or the norm for him in that era and really shouldn't be used.

i remember that, superman was juiced on energies he'd absorbed and wasn't feeling too hot.

i don't have the lobo issue so i didn't know what time it occurred to make sense of it.

oh h1...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i remember that, superman was juiced on energies he'd absorbed and wasn't feeling too hot.

i don't have the lobo issue so i didn't know what time it occurred to make sense of it.
See, I was opposite. I had the Lobo issue (every one of his appearances electronically and his entire solo series offline, I'm a Lobo fanatic like that) but not the #33 one. Or it's conclusion, Superman #89. lol. Had to go and get them for demonstration.

i could report you for not using spoiler tags.

(you might not get the joke)

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i could report you for not using spoiler tags.

(you might not get the joke)
I totally get the joke, in one of those Sentry threads regarding Carnage being ripped in half?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Mandrakk is somethin' else, huh.


You think that this is mandrakk?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You think that this is mandrakk?
I thought the scan was Darkseid speaking about him seeing a shadow being cast over the multiverse while he was falling through it...from DC Universe #0 IIRC. Is it not? Because that one referred to Mandrakk.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Mandrakk is somethin' else, huh.

No, no retcon of course. The feat stands. I'm assuming you're talking about the one where Supes uppercuts Lobo into orbit and through a spacecraft. That's in Man of Steel #30. And I think he becomes that huge hulk Superman around MoS #36, but Raoul would be the better person to ask specifically. Anyway, if it is that feat you're talking about, Supes even comments on his surprise at what he's done, "Two with one blow! And my knuckles don't even sting! My powers are increasing!" And, of course, in a few more issues his power increases so much that he becomes Hulk-like huge.

A result of his cells malfunctioning, not typical of standard Supes powerlevels.

Oh ok I see. Well it was actually several issues that mentioned Superman is getting stronger. That is the reason why current Superman is much stronger than the earlier post crisis versions. I think the writer who took over after Bryne (Stern I think) said they wanted to make Superman stronger as to why several issues mentioned that he was getting stronger.

I believe HP came before that incident though. So if that Superman was stronger than current Superman then this makes DD looks more unbeatable and not worse.

I think it was Superman: Hunter/Prey then Man of Steel #30-33 and the like, timeline wise.

But yeah, Superman is definitely stronger currently than back then. He got that power up after being killed by Doomsday, then again after being split into the two Energy Supermen and reuniting into regular Supes, then again during Our Worlds At War when Mongul trains him, and again in Up, Up, And Away most recently (although IMO that was only a thought-speed and sensory upgrade). If I missed any powerups, I'm sure someone else will hammer me.

But yeah.