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I choose some different opponents this time.

1. Kurse
2. Beta Ray Bill
3. Ice Man
4. Magneto
5. Red Hulk
6. Terrax
7. Spider-Man
8. Thor
9. All 4 members of the Fantastic 4
10. Loki

The order is wacked....

Honestly, the only sure wins i see her getting is on 9 and 7.

Doesn't get past Kurse.

However, should could conceivably take Bobby, Magneto, Terrax, Peter, and the FF.

She would probably take Loki. He's right up her alley- magical god and such.

Why couldn't she get past Kurse? Would he be immune to the lasso?

Originally posted by Original Smurph
She would probably take Loki. He's right up her alley- magical god and such.



Lasso of Truth vs. God of Lies

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why couldn't she get past Kurse? Would he be immune to the lasso? I didn't factor the lasso in, TBH. I thought about these matchups from a physical standpoint, no lasso included (a mistake on my part).

Physically, I doubt she'd get past him, too, tbh. Standard equipment though, she stands a decent chance against most of these people.

1,2,5 and 9 are the ones I can see her not taking a majority against.

The rest I can see her taking a majority with her standard equip.

1. Kurse - She could get some wins, but he's a tough nut to crack. I'd see him taking a majority, unless she uses the lasso successfully or is in a setting to exploit his fey weakness to (cold) iron.

2. Beta Ray Bill - Much like with Thor, I'd see a potential tie, or mutual fatality in one manner or another; Thor is more of a threat, however, conceptually.

3. Ice Man - While he can hurt her (possibly badly), she takes a majority.

4. Magneto - He can take some wins, but she gets a majority (though classic Mags, not weakened as he is now, can get more wins via massive power coupled with finesse, though not a stomp for either, in anycase).

5. Red Hulk - She's fought demons of comparable power and won. He'll be tough to take down, though, and he's very cunning, too; her skill, bracers, and lasso will be the major key to her wins.

6. Terrax - While I gave her a 6/10 over Firelord, I don't know what ratio I'd give for vs. Terrax; a tough call... if he's amped, he's likely to edge her...

7. Spider-Man - Dude... seriously... what did Peter ever do to you?

8. Thor - Honestly, even beyond Kurse, Thor is the biggest threat to her on this list; I'll go with a split (especially as she now has a fringe god-power attack, which she hasn't had all these years), but even if she "wins", the probability of her getting out of the fight alive is not good.

9. All 4 members of the Fantastic 4 - Team losses: WW is much stronger than Ben, can resist Johnny's flame/evade it, can bind Reed, and Susan (who's actually the real threat on the team in this case), while powerful, can't match Diana's strength/speed. The wins Team does get are a result of team synergy working in overdrive to compensate for WW's much greater physical prowess/skills.

10. Loki - She'll ultimately own him almost (though not as well) as Thor does; over decades of comics, she has defeated the Duke of Deception/Deimos, and their god-siblings, actually killing a couple of them when push came to shove (though I doubt she might be able to kill Loki, as his ability to cheat death is almost a trademark of his). Goddess/Avatar of Truth trumps the God of Lies (at least, eventually).

Edit to my previous post. I got my numbers confused. I meant to say 1, 2 and 8 are the ones I can see her not taking a majority.

5 she can, but she'd have to use her lasso.

The rest she could take majorities from.

she beats 6,7,9 and that's it
I don't see her beating Loki for the majority

She takes 6 (nice fight) and 7 (horrible stomp), possibly 9. Invisible Woman along with their teamworc could be a problem.

Originally posted by Warlord
she beats 6,7,9 and that's it
I don't see her beating Loki for the majority

In Re: Loki

Really? Even though she has been defeating his DC "counterparts" (in the form of the gods Deimos/The Duke of Deception, and contextually Circe) for decades? Not a stomp, as such, but she's (quite literally) *built* for dealing with such an opponent. Now, he could escape from her via teleportation (assuming she hasn't gotten the lasso around him), but in this context that equals a win for her.

I don't see any of his DC counterparts having his showings with magic.
If he can escape the lasso via teleportation how is this a win for WW?

Originally posted by Warlord
I don't see any of his DC counterparts having his showings with magic.
If he can escape the lasso via teleportation how is this a win for WW?

Circe?

And he can't escape the lasso via teleportation.

An artifact of Truth couldn't overwhelm the God of Lies.
He is probably one of the few characters who can withstand it!

Originally posted by the ninjak
An artifact of Truth couldn't overwhelm the God of Lies.
He is probably one of the few characters who can withstand it!

Quite the opposite. The lasso would be that much more of a weapon against him.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Quite the opposite. The lasso would be that much more of a weapon against him.

Exactly.

Warlord: The point is he wouldn't be able to teleport out of the lasso. I meant that he might teleport away during the battle to evade capture. The lasso has bound gods more powerful than Loki (such as Ares).

dint Bizaro escape th lasso? (he even snap it w/his strenght iirc...that make him stronger then Supe)

if he can do it why not Loki

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
dint Bizaro escape th lasso? (he even snap it w/his strenght iirc...that make him stronger then Supe)

if he can do it why not Loki

No, that was just a non-canon book, IMO not that good of one, at least when it came to Wondy.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
dint Bizaro escape th lasso? (he even snap it w/his strenght iirc...that make him stronger then Supe)

if he can do it why not Loki

It was non-canon and a ridiculous. The reason he was able to break it was not because of strength but because he is so twisted that he is not able to differentiate between truth and lies.

The lasso would be one of the best weapons you could have against Loki. I don't see how or why people are claiming she can't best him. She can see through illusions on her own or dispel them through the lasso, can deflect pretty much any projectile he sends her way, has the physical stats to engage him directly and win, has an innate defense against mystic forces on her own.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
It was non-canon and a ridiculous. The reason he was able to break it was not because of strength but because he is so twisted that he is not able to differentiate between truth and lies.

That Wondy was also pretty clearly weaker than mainstream Wondy.

Haven't Batman, Deathstroke and a Martian escaped the lasso before?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Haven't Batman, Deathstroke and a Martian escaped the lasso before?

The Deathstroke example was already explained in this thread. It doesn't apply if Diana actually intends to keep someone subdue.

The other 2, I don't think so?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Honestly, the only sure wins i see her getting is on 9 and 7.

This and 9 could actually be debatable.

The lasso's only relevant to her fight with Loki if he goes intangible. Otherwise, she can tank or avoid pretty damn near anything he can do, and just beat him down.

Clears it.

1. yes
2. prolly
3. yes
4. yes
5. yes
6. prolly
7. hell yes
8. Um... prolly not
9. doable but will be tough cause of Mr. F's big brain
10. tough

Loki's got intangibility and teleportation and magical shields. How's she hitting him with the lasso again?

Doesn't make it past Kurse.

Also, current Mags sucks. Who's writing him again? That douche Fraction? God I hate him.

That is all.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Loki's got intangibility and teleportation and magical shields. How's she hitting him with the lasso again?

Break through the shields, fast enough to catch up after the teleport, and her lasso works on the intangible.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Loki's got intangibility and teleportation and magical shields. How's she hitting him with the lasso again?
Teleporting only delays things. Shields can be broken, and she's lasso'd both intangible foes and those who don't even have corporeal forms.

Long time, no see.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Teleporting only delays things. Shields can be broken, and she's lasso'd both intangible foes and those who don't even have corporeal forms.

Long time, no see.

I forgot about her lassoing spirits and such, more remembering her failed attempts (initially) at lassoing Zoom and the like. But you're right about the intangibility. His shields have withstood repeated Mjolnir strikes though, and Diana doesn't have that kind of strength. But meh, where is my Norwegian to debate these things?


Yeah, been a while. Been busy and/or lazy. Actually I only got on here to PM Naija WTF happened in Siege #2? Did Sentry rip Ares in half or did he chop him up with the axe he was holding? Confused. As you can see, I'm a bit behind. Ha.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I forgot about her lassoing spirits and such, more remembering her failed attempts (initially) at lassoing Zoom and the like. But you're right about the intangibility. His shields have withstood repeated Mjolnir strikes though, and Diana doesn't have that kind of strength. But meh, where is my Norwegian to debate these things?


Yeah, been a while. Been busy and/or lazy. Actually I only got on here to PM Naija WTF happened in Siege #2? Did Sentry rip Ares in half or did he chop him up with the axe he was holding? Confused. As you can see, I'm a bit behind. Ha. If he's maintaining shields that are going to stand up to Diana's repeated blows, then he won't be tossing out anything that's going to put her down, so it's just a matter of time.

Well, the resident Norwegian was perma-banned.

Pretty sure he ripped Ares in half, if that wasn't answered already.

Yeah, I went on hiatus for a while too. I was only drawn back when I saw there was another tourney going on, and now I've stuck around. Apparently I keep coming back. I feel like some sort of STD.

Originally posted by Q99
No, that was just a non-canon book, IMO not that good of one, at least when it came to Wondy. why aint it canon? afaik it dint happen in altarnate reality/timeline

Originally posted by Original Smurph
If he's maintaining shields that are going to stand up to Diana's repeated blows, then he won't be tossing out anything that's going to put her down, so it's just a matter of time.
Truthiness.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Well, the resident Norwegian was perma-banned.
Aw...

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Yeah, I went on hiatus for a while too. I was only drawn back when I saw there was another tourney going on, and now I've stuck around. Apparently I keep coming back. I feel like some sort of STD.
"KMC's Resident STD" ...sounds like a good title to me. You could also go with, "KMC's Black Lantern" if you aren't staying dead. 'Tis the season, afterall.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
why aint it canon? afaik it dint happen in altarnate reality/timeline

Because it's an alternate version of the "meeting of the Trinity"; also, if it were, in fact, the Diana of Perez' era (time-wise), vs. a Bizarro scaled to a later time period, then certainly he would stomp her: that would have been a WW from 25 years - and several upgrades - ago. As far as the lasso, that is one of the situations (which I have addressed in other threads, and alluded to in this one) where Diana not being in "congruence" with truth got her in "trouble" -- Bizarro, in that story, was as stated a pure force of chaos, and not one *intended* to be subdued/contained (as stated)so the lasso did not bind him (allegorically similiar to how the lasso bound Ares in WW #6, 2nd series, and forced him to see the truth, but then released him afterwards, because as the God of War, it was his nature to do what he would do, but also it caused him to change his ways of doing things, and prevented him from being so nihilistic.)

With Loki, Diana would often trump him in many situations; conversely, she would find it nearly impossible to permanently remove him from the situation (i.e. kill him, or such) due to the truth of his nature/divine status. From a writing/story POV, I could easily see Loki being able to do "the impossible", and teleport out of the lasso, but only after admitting to being defeated: by withdrawing to fight another day/time, he is at once fulfilling the "truth" of his existence, by being defeated by The Power of Truth, but also surviving to deceive in the future, which is also the "truth" of his existence.

Originally posted by Spire
Clears it.

major lols

why Loki can't maintain shields while casting spells from the inside?

Originally posted by Warlord
why Loki can't maintain shields while casting spells from the inside?

I think the argument is that he will need to concentrate in order to keep the shields up against WW's assault. You can agree or disagree with that.

Loki seems like exactly the kind of god WW would do very well against. She was the goddess of truth herself. Countless battles with Circe would help her on the magical front. She wouldn't be able to kill him permanently but she could take him down in a battle.

ok let's have it this way...if he can hold his shields enough to summon allies against her or cast some powerful spell (remember he could affect skyfather beings before) he wins. If he does need to concentrate and she keeps him off balance she gets the win.

make sense to me

Originally posted by Warlord
ok let's have it this way...if he can hold his shields enough to summon allies against her or cast some powerful spell (remember he could affect skyfather beings before) he wins. If he does need to concentrate and she keeps him off balance she gets the win.

make sense to me


Fair enough. Although she can raise her shield if he tries to cast on her. Summoning powerful minions would be a winning tactic I think.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Fair enough. Although she can raise her shield if he tries to cast on her. Summoning powerful minions would be a winning tactic I think.


I can see the shield blocking mystic blasts but as for effect spells I don't know

Originally posted by Warlord
major lols

I agree.

I assume (*hope*) Spire is just being sarcastic; Kurse, Thor, Beta-Ray, and a couple others are more than capable of giving WW a run for her money. Even the FF, whom I gave as losing generally, could get some wins via massive team-work. Diana does well in this list, overall, but by no means stomps. (Except for poor Petey... I mean, seriously... that was just cruel...)

Originally posted by Warlord

I can see the shield blocking mystic blasts but as for effect spells I don't know

Both the bracers and the lasso aid in resisting magical effects, when employed properly (so while useful, they don't provide an auto-protect, by any means; it's definitely a case of her utilizing some of her more secondary powersets).

So err, another possible tactic for Loki: he's used his magic to control Thor's hammer before. That's essentially overriding Odin's enchantment on it. Any reason he wouldn't be able to effect the accuracy of Diana's lasso throws?

Just throwing it out there.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why couldn't she get past Kurse? Would he be immune to the lasso?

Is she immune to a guy who is four times stronger than Thor? Didn't think so.

She doesn't even get past Kurse, why the hell is the strongest person number one?

Originally posted by kakuzu
Is she immune to a guy who is four times stronger than Thor? Didn't think so.

Considering Diana is much faster and more agile, what does Kurse do when he's immobilized via the lasso? The second she realizes she's facing a foe with superior physical capabilities than hers, she's going to switch things up.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Considering Diana is much faster and more agile, what does Kurse do when he's immobilized via the lasso? The second she realizes she's facing a foe with superior physical capabilities than hers, she's going to switch things up.
What did she do against Konvikt?

Originally posted by Enyalus
What did she do against Konvikt?

Hold her own against him. She has more showings of using her brains over her brawn when faced with exceptionally more powerful foes. regardless.

Originally posted by tideoftime
1. Kurse - She could get some wins, but he's a tough nut to crack. I'd see him taking a majority, unless she uses the lasso successfully or is in a setting to exploit his fey weakness to (cold) iron.

2. Beta Ray Bill - Much like with Thor, I'd see a potential tie, or mutual fatality in one manner or another; Thor is more of a threat, however, conceptually.

3. Ice Man - While he can hurt her (possibly badly), she takes a majority.

4. Magneto - He can take some wins, but she gets a majority (though classic Mags, not weakened as he is now, can get more wins via massive power coupled with finesse, though not a stomp for either, in anycase).

5. Red Hulk - She's fought demons of comparable power and won. He'll be tough to take down, though, and he's very cunning, too; her skill, bracers, and lasso will be the major key to her wins.

6. Terrax - While I gave her a 6/10 over Firelord, I don't know what ratio I'd give for vs. Terrax; a tough call... if he's amped, he's likely to edge her...

7. Spider-Man - Dude... seriously... what did Peter ever do to you?

8. Thor - Honestly, even beyond Kurse, Thor is the biggest threat to her on this list; I'll go with a split (especially as she now has a fringe god-power attack, which she hasn't had all these years), but even if she "wins", the probability of her getting out of the fight alive is not good.

9. All 4 members of the Fantastic 4 - Team losses: WW is much stronger than Ben, can resist Johnny's flame/evade it, can bind Reed, and Susan (who's actually the real threat on the team in this case), while powerful, can't match Diana's strength/speed. The wins Team does get are a result of team synergy working in overdrive to compensate for WW's much greater physical prowess/skills.

10. Loki - She'll ultimately own him almost (though not as well) as Thor does; over decades of comics, she has defeated the Duke of Deception/Deimos, and their god-siblings, actually killing a couple of them when push came to shove (though I doubt she might be able to kill Loki, as his ability to cheat death is almost a trademark of his). Goddess/Avatar of Truth trumps the God of Lies (at least, eventually).

I can agree with this fine poster.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I can agree with this fine poster.

Me too. I don't think she gets a majority over every single person on this list (namely Thor and BRB), but she has the powers, skills, and equipment to potentially clear it. I don't see how people are claiming she doesn't stand a chance in hell against any single person here.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Me too. I don't think she gets a majority over every single person on this list (namely Thor and BRB), but she has the powers, skills, and equipment to potentially clear it. I don't see how people are claiming she doesn't stand a chance in hell against any single person here.
Tideoftime's list is pretty good, except I, like you, would give the nod to Thor and BRB instead of the split he gives them. And also, I'd give Firelord a majority over Diana but Diana the overwhelming majority against Terrax.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Tideoftime's list is pretty good, except I, like you, would give the nod to Thor and BRB instead of the split he gives them. And also, I'd give Firelord a majority over Diana but Diana the overwhelming majority against Terrax.

Honestly, I have always teetered back and forth about Firelord/Terrax; I have seen good arguements/listings in other threads/forums concerning them, and nobody seems to readily agree on defining one above the other, as such. I suppose I could go either way, really; I just went with Firelord losing by a narrow margin, as opposed to Terrax, based on consensus arguements, at least in relation to WW.

And as far as BRB/Thor -- I suppose I should have been more clear: the fight with either of them is going to be long, dragged out, and horrendous; the "split" I see happening is because, while WW being defeated by either is certainly a given in many fights, her ability to subdue an opponent via the lasso, or take an opponent down with her in death via her weapons (especially her tiara-throw, which is capable of killing gods, as it is a god-weapon) can make the odds a bit fuzzy. I did a descriptive spread in one of the other threads with her and Thor in it, and while I listed it as a 5/10 split, the details behind those individual numbers made it more than a simple math equation (eg: Diana died in at least 3 of the battles, including a battle in which she "won", but would die afterwards from her wounds/god-injuries. I also gave other descriptions, as well).

Originally posted by tideoftime
Honestly, I have always teetered back and forth about Firelord/Terrax; I have seen good arguements/listings in other threads/forums concerning them, and nobody seems to readily agree on defining one above the other, as such. I suppose I could go either way, really; I just went with Firelord losing by a narrow margin, as opposed to Terrax, based on consensus arguements, at least in relation to WW.
Yeah, I can understand the Firelord issue anyway. Kril kind of gets underrated, but he's held his own and/or beat both Thor and SS. Overheated both of them, in fact (and both Thor and SS have durability enough to stand inside of stars and the like.) Seems like Diana has a bit of a weakness for heat and electricity, so for Firelord I'd give the slight nod to him.

Terrax, though, is a friggin' disaster. I can't say anything positive about him other than IMO at least he would die quickly if he faced Diana.

Also, **** Terrax.

Originally posted by tideoftime
And as far as BRB/Thor -- I suppose I should have been more clear: the fight with either of them is going to be long, dragged out, and horrendous; the "split" I see happening is because, while WW being defeated by either is certainly a given in many fights, her ability to subdue an opponent via the lasso, or take an opponent down with her in death via her weapons (especially her tiara-throw, which is capable of killing gods, as it is a god-weapon) can make the odds a bit fuzzy.
BRB and Thor just pack so much more raw power than Diana (planet shattering blows both physically and via energy blasts) it's hard to even give her a split against them to me. And recently we've got BRB fighting with SS at at least near-light speeds, probably FTL speeds (Godhunter), so the speed argument becomes dubious for her.

As does the ace-in-the-hole tiara throw. Unless she's close when she throws it and strikes perfectly, it's not working. I mean also recently Thor was slashed in the face by Wolverine's claws and it did virtually nothing thanks to his 'thick Asgardian skin'. Not the same as Diana's tiara, but its a rough analogue. And then there's his very quick reflexes, especially with Mjolnir...such as, for example, when he blocks a blast from Rachel-Phoenix almost instantly.

Originally posted by tideoftime
I did a descriptive spread in one of the other threads with her and Thor in it, and while I listed it as a 5/10 split, the details behind those individual numbers made it more than a simple math equation (eg: Diana died in at least 3 of the battles, including a battle in which she "won", but would die afterwards from her wounds/god-injuries. I also gave other descriptions, as well).
The descriptive spread sounds like an interesting read.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Honestly, I have always teetered back and forth about Firelord/Terrax; I have seen good arguements/listings in other threads/forums concerning them, and nobody seems to readily agree on defining one above the other, as such. I suppose I could go either way, really; I just went with Firelord losing by a narrow margin, as opposed to Terrax, based on consensus arguements, at least in relation to WW.

And as far as BRB/Thor -- I suppose I should have been more clear: the fight with either of them is going to be long, dragged out, and horrendous; the "split" I see happening is because, while WW being defeated by either is certainly a given in many fights, her ability to subdue an opponent via the lasso, or take an opponent down with her in death via her weapons (especially her tiara-throw, which is capable of killing gods, as it is a god-weapon) can make the odds a bit fuzzy. I did a descriptive spread in one of the other threads with her and Thor in it, and while I listed it as a 5/10 split, the details behind those individual numbers made it more than a simple math equation (eg: Diana died in at least 3 of the battles, including a battle in which she "won", but would die afterwards from her wounds/god-injuries. I also gave other descriptions, as well).


i go with Wondy > BRB 6.5/10
and Thor > Wondy 7/10

Originally posted by Enyalus

Yeah, I can understand the Firelord issue anyway. Kril kind of gets underrated, but he's held his own and/or beat both Thor and SS. Overheated both of them, in fact (and both Thor and SS have durability enough to stand inside of stars and the like.) Seems like Diana has a bit of a weakness for heat and electricity, so for Firelord I'd give the slight nod to him.

Terrax, though, is a friggin' disaster. I can't say anything positive about him other than IMO at least he would die quickly if he faced Diana.

Also, **** Terrax.


BRB and Thor just pack so much more raw power than Diana (planet shattering blows both physically and via energy blasts) it's hard to even give her a split against them to me. And recently we've got BRB fighting with SS at at least near-light speeds, probably FTL speeds (Godhunter), so the speed argument becomes dubious for her.

As does the ace-in-the-hole tiara throw. Unless she's close when she throws it and strikes perfectly, it's not working. I mean also recently Thor was slashed in the face by Wolverine's claws and it did virtually nothing thanks to his 'thick Asgardian skin'. Not the same as Diana's tiara, but its a rough analogue. And then there's his very quick reflexes, especially with Mjolnir...such as, for example, when he blocks a blast from Rachel-Phoenix almost instantly.


The descriptive spread sounds like an interesting read.


yeah but the strength behind wolvie's claws is dwarfed by the strength behind a tiara throw

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
i go with Wondy > BRB 6.5/10
and Thor > Wondy 7/10

I can see where someone could argue that. But it's very easy to forget that Diana is *alot* tougher than many people realize, and the defenses she has via her bracers and lasso are often underestimated; many posters around here, for example, weren't aware that she is often depicted as repelling small areas from attacks (particularly energy) via her bracers and the Aegis power they channel -- and that's going back starting 20+ years ago. Much like with Superman, Thor's "special effects" are much more impressive than Diana's, and there is no arguement at all that he has a greater range of abilities than she does. But greater range doesn't equal greater depth, and in a conventional battle, WW comes armed with the core abilities/defenses needed to engage the likes of Thor, and other divine/infernal beings. Godblast? She already repelled/deflected the likes of that with her bracers (the time she deflected the combined power of the Olympian gods is just one example). Lightning/Storm effects? While she is not as resistant to electricity as to other attacks, her bracers allow her to mitigate many of these strikes, and she has routinely fought others in much worse conditions. Strength/Durability? Despite many a fanbois' beliefs, Diana is nearly as strong as Superman, making her in the same general league as Thor (though he edges her in the long haul, but that won't matter as much in a conventional battle), and she can take/withstand, or at least endure, massive battles against similarly powerful foes (her fights with Circe-enhanced Superman, and the IC fight, certainly demonstrate that). Combat skills? While Thor is definitely top-tier when it comes to laying out the whoop-ass, Diana has a greater degree of finesse than he does; also, while his power allows him to battle superfast opponents, he intrinsically does not have the same agility and grace that she does. Weapons/Accessories? Just because Mjolner has more obvious tricks than the bracers/lasso/tiara, doesn't mean it's the end-all of this fight: her weapons, for combat purposes, easily match Mjolner -- the bracers can resist nigh-all physical attacks, the lasso can potentially one-shot almost any opponent, and the tiara can at least inflict bad damage even against gods (she could plausably slit his throat the way she did Clark's, or the way she beheaded Deimos -- though Thor is too uber to be decapitated in one-shot; just using that as a reference example).

Much like in battles with the Hulk/Hercules, who many people don't have a problem with when it comes to Thor, Wonder Woman brings everything they have to the table, conceptually, and more. It has always puzzled me why so many people have trouble seeing that; contextually, she *actually* is a much more direct counter-part to Thor than either Superman or Captain Marvel, in many aspects. Guess the fanboi gene doesn't allow for such a comparison... (not directing that at anyone here, specifically, just in general).

Apologies for length.

Originally posted by tideoftime
I can see where someone could argue that. But it's very easy to forget that Diana is *alot* tougher than many people realize, and the defenses she has via her bracers and lasso are often underestimated; many posters around here, for example, weren't aware that she is often depicted as repelling small areas from attacks (particularly energy) via her bracers and the Aegis power they channel -- and that's going back starting 20+ years ago. Much like with Superman, Thor's "special effects" are much more impressive than Diana's, and there is no arguement at all that he has a greater range of abilities than she does. But greater range doesn't equal greater depth, and in a conventional battle, WW comes armed with the core abilities/defenses needed to engage the likes of Thor, and other divine/infernal beings. Godblast? She already repelled/deflected the likes of that with her bracers (the time she deflected the combined power of the Olympian gods is just one example). Lightning/Storm effects? While she is not as resistant to electricity as to other attacks, her bracers allow her to mitigate many of these strikes, and she has routinely fought others in much worse conditions. Strength/Durability? Despite many a fanbois' beliefs, Diana is nearly as strong as Superman, making her in the same general league as Thor (though he edges her in the long haul, but that won't matter as much in a conventional battle), and she can take/withstand, or at least endure, massive battles against similarly powerful foes (her fights with Circe-enhanced Superman, and the IC fight, certainly demonstrate that). Combat skills? While Thor is definitely top-tier when it comes to laying out the whoop-ass, Diana has a greater degree of finesse than he does; also, while his power allows him to battle superfast opponents, he intrinsically does not have the same agility and grace that she does. Weapons/Accessories? Just because Mjolner has more obvious tricks than the bracers/lasso/tiara, doesn't mean it's the end-all of this fight: her weapons, for combat purposes, easily match Mjolner -- the bracers can resist nigh-all physical attacks, the lasso can potentially one-shot almost any opponent, and the tiara can at least inflict bad damage even against gods (she could plausably slit his throat the way she did Clark's, or the way she beheaded Deimos -- though Thor is too uber to be decapitated in one-shot; just using that as a reference example).

Much like in battles with the Hulk/Hercules, who many people don't have a problem with when it comes to Thor, Wonder Woman brings everything they have to the table, conceptually, and more. It has always puzzled me why so many people have trouble seeing that; contextually, she *actually* is a much more direct counter-part to Thor than either Superman or Captain Marvel, in many aspects. Guess the fanboi gene doesn't allow for such a comparison... (not directing that at anyone here, specifically, just in general).

Apologies for length.

Pretty solid, dude.

Originally posted by tideoftime
I can see where someone could argue that. But it's very easy to forget that Diana is *alot* tougher than many people realize, and the defenses she has via her bracers and lasso are often underestimated; many posters around here, for example, weren't aware that she is often depicted as repelling small areas from attacks (particularly energy) via her bracers and the Aegis power they channel -- and that's going back starting 20+ years ago. Much like with Superman, Thor's "special effects" are much more impressive than Diana's, and there is no arguement at all that he has a greater range of abilities than she does. But greater range doesn't equal greater depth, and in a conventional battle, WW comes armed with the core abilities/defenses needed to engage the likes of Thor, and other divine/infernal beings. Godblast? She already repelled/deflected the likes of that with her bracers (the time she deflected the combined power of the Olympian gods is just one example). Lightning/Storm effects? While she is not as resistant to electricity as to other attacks, her bracers allow her to mitigate many of these strikes, and she has routinely fought others in much worse conditions. Strength/Durability? Despite many a fanbois' beliefs, Diana is nearly as strong as Superman, making her in the same general league as Thor (though he edges her in the long haul, but that won't matter as much in a conventional battle), and she can take/withstand, or at least endure, massive battles against similarly powerful foes (her fights with Circe-enhanced Superman, and the IC fight, certainly demonstrate that). Combat skills? While Thor is definitely top-tier when it comes to laying out the whoop-ass, Diana has a greater degree of finesse than he does; also, while his power allows him to battle superfast opponents, he intrinsically does not have the same agility and grace that she does. Weapons/Accessories? Just because Mjolner has more obvious tricks than the bracers/lasso/tiara, doesn't mean it's the end-all of this fight: her weapons, for combat purposes, easily match Mjolner -- the bracers can resist nigh-all physical attacks, the lasso can potentially one-shot almost any opponent, and the tiara can at least inflict bad damage even against gods (she could plausably slit his throat the way she did Clark's, or the way she beheaded Deimos -- though Thor is too uber to be decapitated in one-shot; just using that as a reference example).

Much like in battles with the Hulk/Hercules, who many people don't have a problem with when it comes to Thor, Wonder Woman brings everything they have to the table, conceptually, and more. It has always puzzled me why so many people have trouble seeing that; contextually, she *actually* is a much more direct counter-part to Thor than either Superman or Captain Marvel, in many aspects. Guess the fanboi gene doesn't allow for such a comparison... (not directing that at anyone here, specifically, just in general).

Apologies for length.


damn you ToT!!!
why you always gotta make great Wondy posts??
fine fine its Thor > Wondy 6.2/10
and btw, I think Orion is more of DC's version of Thor!!! (but more on the sci fi side instead of mystic abilities)

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
damn you ToT!!!
why you always gotta make great Wondy posts??
fine fine its Thor > Wondy 6.2/10
and btw, I think Orion is more of DC's version of Thor!!! (but more on the sci fi side instead of mystic abilities)

Oh, Orion is definitely another good counterpart, if with a very different slant; I was just referring to the general tendancy of people to use Superman or Captain Marvel as the natural "opposition". Diana's physical prowess/skills are a female/male mirror to Thor's (he edges in brute strength/general durability, while she edges with agility/finesse; they both have powerful mystical artifacts that aid them greatly, and are very closely identified with them not just in terms of character concept, but metaphysically as well; both have a "warrior's heart" that neither Clark nor Billy can ever match (no disrespect to either, but I think most people would agree); and both even have similar mythical origins, both being imbued/inheriting divine power and being born of Gaea -- people forget how conceptually close Thor's and Diana's births are, metaphysically speaking).

As far as the 6.2/10 ratio... rounding to 6/10... I'd go with that, for the sake of discussion, as it is in the same range I gave Superman over Wonder Woman (6-7/10). As I've posted before, I give it a split (even though I gave Kurse the win) because of the manner in which both opponents fight: Diana always looks for the subdual first (and is good at it -- recent issues WW 40-41 have her fighting a deceived Power Girl and as always her thoughts go to how to subdue Karen, rather than inflict major harm); Thor is a powerhouse, but as Quan himself has often (correctly) indicated, often meets people on their own terms -- he is likely to underestimate WW for several moves, which is the window of opportunity she often looks for. Now, is that a definite? No, not at all. But even if push came to kill, the two of them have so many similarities in direct combat that it really is a tough call. But 6/10 for Thor is close enough, IMO, to what I posted, so I'll agree to it.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Oh, Orion is definitely another good counterpart, if with a very different slant; I was just referring to the general tendancy of people to use Superman or Captain Marvel as the natural "opposition". Diana's physical prowess/skills are a female/male mirror to Thor's (he edges in brute strength/general durability, while she edges with agility/finesse; they both have powerful mystical artifacts that aid them greatly, and are very closely identified with them not just in terms of character concept, but metaphysically as well; both have a "warrior's heart" that neither Clark nor Billy can ever match (no disrespect to either, but I think most people would agree); and both even have similar mythical origins, both being imbued/inheriting divine power and being born of Gaea -- people forget how conceptually close Thor's and Diana's births are, metaphysically speaking).

As far as the 6.2/10 ratio... rounding to 6/10... I'd go with that, for the sake of discussion, as it is in the same range I gave Superman over Wonder Woman (6-7/10). As I've posted before, I give it a split (even though I gave Kurse the win) because of the manner in which both opponents fight: Diana always looks for the subdual first (and is good at it -- recent issues WW 40-41 have her fighting a deceived Power Girl and as always her thoughts go to how to subdue Karen, rather than inflict major harm); Thor is a powerhouse, but as Quan himself has often (correctly) indicated, often meets people on their own terms -- he is likely to underestimate WW for several moves, which is the window of opportunity she often looks for. Now, is that a definite? No, not at all. But even if push came to kill, the two of them have so many similarities in direct combat that it really is a tough call. But 6/10 for Thor is close enough, IMO, to what I posted, so I'll agree to it.


Very well said. I do agree that in my mind, WW is a better counter part to Thor given their backgrounds. I think their temperaments would also make for an interesting clash. Many people disagreed with Wizard's Top 10 Superhero's list, but one of the things that I think they did get right was that Thor vs. Wonder Woman was the best fight on that list.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Very well said. I do agree that in my mind, WW is a better counter part to Thor given their backgrounds. I think their temperaments would also make for an interesting clash. Many people disagreed with Wizard's Top 10 Superhero's list, but one of the things that I think they did get right was that Thor vs. Wonder Woman was the best fight on that list.

Oh, no Sh!t! I remember reading that when it came out (what, like, 12 years ago, or so?) and completely agreed with it. WW vs. Thor was by a league the most interesting of the potential fights listed. I also agreed that he would defeat her, in the context of making a "short-list", where a 6/10 would qualify as a "definitive" win for purposes of ranking.