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Post time skip sasuke with regular sharingan (no levels above regular) and no curse mark,

VS

Post time skip Neji.


Takes place in the chunnin exam arena, first person to die or unable to continue the match loses.

Neji, decisively.

What powers does Sasuke even have anymore, without MS? He doesn't seem to be able to use Oro's kinjutsu so he's really got nothing.

He still has Chidori's and Katon's, and speed, and genjutsu. All which fall before the mighty Byakugan and Kaiten.

But seriously without actually SEEING what Neji can do besides him the only one becoming Jounin and loosing to Kisame it's hard to say. Neji should win imo if Sasuke can't use Susanoo but without any evidence I must say Sasuke......the horror.

Originally posted by Kento
He still has Chidori's and Katon's, and speed, and genjutsu. All which fall before the mighty Byakugan and Kaiten.

But seriously without actually SEEING what Neji can do besides him the only one becoming Jounin and loosing to Kisame it's hard to say. Neji should win imo if Sasuke can't use Susanoo but without any evidence I must say Sasuke......the horror.
he also has the snakes

I don't think he can use the snakes without his cursed seal.

Originally posted by yungz22
he also has the snakes Eh he's only ever used snakes when he had Oro inside him so it's probable sure but never shown. Besides it was in answer to Kandy's 'What powers does Sasuke even have anymore, without MS? He doesn't seem to be able to use Oro's kinjutsu so he's really got nothing.' which would involve snakes.

Sasuke has better nin/genjutsu and their tai/doejutsu cant be that different from each other. He also has summons (Hawks/Birds), a sword and more weapons (summoning weapons). Katon and Raiton, smarter and faster.
Nej hasnt got much else besides openpalm+byakugan over Sasuke.

Originally posted by Kento
Eh he's only ever used snakes when he had Oro inside him so it's probable sure but never shown. Besides it was in answer to Kandy's 'What powers does Sasuke even have anymore, without MS? He doesn't seem to be able to use Oro's kinjutsu so he's really got nothing.' which would involve snakes. oh i thought he was talking about the sasuke that fought deidara

Originally posted by BloodRain
Sasuke has better nin/genjutsu and their tai/doejutsu cant be that different from each other. He also has summons (Hawks/Birds), a sword and more weapons (summoning weapons). Katon and Raiton, smarter and faster.
Nej hasnt got much else besides openpalm+byakugan over Sasuke. Neji has better taijutsu, and genjutsu defense. Sasuke isn't smarter at all if anything they are about the same. And both Hizashi and Neji should know some ninjutsu. Iirc Kakashi said to be a jounin you have to know at least two elements. It's just Hyuuga taijutsu > pretty much anything else. It's got the ultimate defense, and offense next to Susanoo.
Originally posted by yungz22
oh i thought he was talking about the sasuke that fought deidara I assumed he was talking about current Sasuke without using MS. But it could really be any Sasuke I guess. It's not like there is much difference between Hebi Sasuke and Taka Sasuke if you take away cursed seal and MS minus never using snakes.

Originally posted by Kento
Eh he's only ever used snakes when he had Oro inside him


*shudders*


Did you HAVE to put it that way?

Originally posted by Kento
Neji has better taijutsu, and genjutsu defense. Sasuke isn't smarter at all if anything they are about the same. And both Hizashi and Neji should know some ninjutsu. Iirc Kakashi said to be a jounin you have to know at least two elements. It's just Hyuuga taijutsu > pretty much anything else. It's got the ultimate defense, and offense next to Susanoo.

He has better genjutsu defence? Sasuke shows battle tactics above Neji, and im sure Kakashi said that chunins usually have one element and jonins two not that its a requirement. All he has is superior taijutsu skill.

Originally posted by dadudemon
*shudders*


Did you HAVE to put it that way? Yes, yes I did. Originally posted by BloodRain
He has better genjutsu defence? Sasuke shows battle tactics above Neji, and im sure Kakashi said that chunins usually have one element and jonins two not that its a requirement. All he has is superior taijutsu skill. Haha I meant genjutsu defense in general in response to Sasuke having genjutsu. Because Sasuke's had a million battles. Neji has had like 3 and only one of them were major and he showed how good he was in that. And he's grown a lot since Kidomaru. Neji was fighting his worst match-up also. Sasuke's more inventive with his moves sure, but Neji was also able to learn things he was never meant to, and did it alone.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v35/c316/6.html
A minimum of two elements is required to become Jounin. Meaning Neji, Hizashi, Shikaku, Chouza, Inoichi, and Tsunade all can use two elements. Makes me wonder what they'd all have.

I dont think he'll even be able to get too many hits in due to Sasku's speed. And on the moves, Neji only has close range moves with one long range, Sasuke is good in close-mid-long range.
Y'know even though i caan clearly see it i still dont believe it >.> then again maybe they dont need to have elemental jutsus just two elements. Otherwise those people would definatly be using them by now. Im wondering too...

Originally posted by BloodRain
I dont think he'll even be able to get too many hits in due to Sasku's speed. And on the moves, Neji only has close range moves with one long range, Sasuke is good in close-mid-long range.
Y'know even though i caan clearly see it i still dont believe it >.> then again maybe they dont need to have elemental jutsus just two elements. Otherwise those people would definatly be using them by now. Im wondering too... Neji doesn't really need many hits. That's all it'll take to completely turn of Sasuke's chakra.

But yea I already said Sasuke's wins but only because we don't really know Neji's limits in part 2 or really how much he's improved. Though if it's anything along the lines of how much Shikamaru, Sakura, or Kakashi has improved then Neji would take it.

Not really none of them really get any screen time.

Sasuke has the power of pseudo-main character to make him win

Originally posted by BloodRain
Sasuke has the power of main character to make him win fixed

Originally posted by Kento
I must say Sasuke......the horror.

The truth can hurt, unfortunately .

Originally posted by Sappho
Post time skip sasuke with regular sharingan (no levels above regular) and no curse mark,

VS

Post time skip Neji.


Takes place in the chunnin exam arena, first person to die or unable to continue the match loses.

Neji have any defense against Kirin? Sure it takes time to build up, but my money is on Sasuke being able to last that long.

Come to think of it a well-timed chidori spear would probably be enough.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Come to think of it a well-timed chidori spear would probably be enough. To defeat Sasuke.

Neji is kind of lame now that I think of it... his signature move (spinning defense) was really outclassed when Shinra Tensei was revealed.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Neji is kind of lame now that I think of it... his signature move (spinning defense) was really outclassed when Shinra Tensei was revealed. That's like saying Asuma's lame because his knives were outclassed by Rasenshuriken. Or Kakashi's lame because Sasuke has so many chidori variations. Kaiten is still an ultimate defense that has never been broken through. He's been stopped from being able to use it sure but even without spinning he can still deflect stuff slightly with a chakra aura.

Yes but the thing about Kakashi and Asuma is that they are still interesting characters and have variety whereas Neji is just a pretentious loser whose only talents are now obsolete.

Sure he may not be a good character but how is Kaiten, and Hyuuga-style taijutsu obsolete?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211198&id=100000217803047

this would be a battle of epic proportions see link above

It's says content not found.

Originally posted by Kento
It's says content not found. how do i post pics on here.....

nvm here it is

neji vs sasuke

So far, the only limit that Neji's rotation has is if you stop him from spinning. I also question whether or not the Byakugan can dispel Tsukyomi. However Neji is the better fighter so that counts for something thought Sasuke would just spam MS technique's without a care in the world.

Well Sasuke has more backing him up so the victory kind of points to him.

Neji is the better fighter but Sasuke is the better ninja.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So far, the only limit that Neji's rotation has is if you stop him from spinning. I also question whether or not the Byakugan can dispel Tsukyomi. However Neji is the better fighter so that counts for something thought Sasuke would just spam MS technique's without a care in the world.

Well Sasuke has more backing him up so the victory kind of points to him.
READ THE OPENING POST. Sasuke does not have MS for this fight.

Originally posted by yungz22
neji vs sasuke

thats rad

Originally posted by Sappho
Post time skip sasuke with regular sharingan (no levels above regular) and no curse mark,

VS

Post time skip Neji.


Takes place in the chunnin exam arena, first person to die or unable to continue the match loses.

Oops! Well can Chidori or Kirin stop Neji from spinning?

Originally posted by yungz22
neji vs sasuke That's a pretty cool picture.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Oops! Well can Chidori or Kirin stop Neji from spinning?
IDK about Chidori but i'm pretty sure Kirin would blast through his shield like so much toilet paper.

Originally posted by Kento
Neji has better taijutsu, and genjutsu defense. Sasuke isn't smarter at all if anything they are about the same. And both Hizashi and Neji should know some ninjutsu. Iirc Kakashi said to be a jounin you have to know at least two elements.

He said it was normal for jonin, not that it was required. I bet people with specialty clan jutsus are often exceptions.


The electricity would be the big card to play here, if Sasuke could stun Neji with a current through the ground, then he could prevent Neji from using the rotation.




He does have the 'destroy someone's insides with pressure points' and 'cut off their chakra' offensive movies.

And someone can be cool without being the best.

yea i think neji took this one

so your guys' final opinions? neji? sasuke?

look at the sauske vs deidra fight sauske has become way smarter than neji

SAuske has become wayy smarter than neji ..he took on 2 akatsuki members with just a regular sharingan...while neji got caught by kisames water clone =P

Regular sharingan and curse mark+all the orochimaru moves he lost with the mark.

And Neji did break free from the water prison.

thats what i tried to tell him :/

Neji could probably see through Sasuke's ordinary illusions that were used at the beginning of the battle against Itachi, and I'd give Neji the slight upper-hand in hand-to-hand combat as well. But he falls short on basically everything else. But I'm most likely overrating the crap out of Neji.

Originally posted by Astner
Neji could probably see through Sasuke's ordinary illusions that were used at the beginning of the battle against Itachi, and I'd give Neji the slight upper-hand in hand-to-hand combat as well. But he falls short on basically everything else. But I'm most likely overrating the crap out of Neji. neji's eyes do not help with genjutsu they only through physical things

Ao used his to detect genjutsu on Yagura, remember?

They can see chakra, so that's good against most genjutsu.

Originally posted by yungz22
neji's eyes do not help with genjutsu they only through physical things Ao would beg to differ.

alright ine but that genjutsu was in no way as strong as anything illlusion sasuke has used

Originally posted by yungz22
alright ine but that genjutsu was in no way as strong as anything illlusion sasuke has used Doubtful. Danzo believed Shisui's eye would allow him to fight Madara. And Shisui was able to genjutsu Yagura when Sasuke wasn't able to do it to Bee.

And Hinata has also made reference to Byakugan being able to see through genjutsu when they fought Madara iirc.

Yea. We're spoiled by sharingan hax, but byakugan *are* hax too. Just a lesser more mundane hax.

There's a reason they're such a powerful clan.

Being able to see that another person has had his chakra altered by genjutsu is not even remotely the same thing as being able to see through a genjutsu cast on yourself. Sasuke could just use Genjutsu to make Neji believe his Byakugan is seeing that there is no genjutsu...

Sasuke summons Susanoo and kills Neji /thread

Or he traps him in Tsukiyomi, either or.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Being able to see that another person has had his chakra altered by genjutsu is not even remotely the same thing as being able to see through a genjutsu cast on yourself. Sasuke could just use Genjutsu to make Neji believe his Byakugan is seeing that there is no genjutsu... Except Hinata knew for certain that they weren't in a genjutsu against Madara because of her Byakugan's ability.

Originally posted by Kento
Except Hinata knew for certain that they weren't in a genjutsu against Madara because of her Byakugan's ability.
I don't recall that case, but if so yeah, that would certainly be a much, much better example than what Ao did.

Originally posted by KingD19
Sasuke summons Susanoo and kills Neji /thread

Or he traps him in Tsukiyomi, either or.

No mangekyo, basic sharingan only. No curse seal either.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't recall that case, but if so yeah, that would certainly be a much, much better example than what Ao did. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v43/c394/16.html

Basically Sakura wonders if it's a genjutsu Madara's using against them, and Hinata's certain that he isn't.

Originally posted by Kento
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v43/c394/16.html

Basically Sakura wonders if it's a genjutsu Madara's using against them, and Hinata's certain that he isn't.

She could easily do that by looking at the chakra flow of others. She says she expanded the range of her Byakugan, after all.

Unless a Byakugan user can somehow see themselves with the Byakugan, they won't be able to know if they are in a genjutsu, because honestly, I cannot remember a time where the Byakugan is shown to have a defense against genjutsu like that of the Sharingan.

Originally posted by Q99
No mangekyo, basic sharingan only. No curse seal either.

Kirin destroys Neji . Yes it has a long build-up time, but Sasuke is capable of staying in this fight for that long, and then landing it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
She could easily do that by looking at the chakra flow of others. She says she expanded the range of her Byakugan, after all.

Unless a Byakugan user can somehow see themselves with the Byakugan, they won't be able to know if they are in a genjutsu, because honestly, I cannot remember a time where the Byakugan is shown to have a defense against genjutsu like that of the Sharingan.
And talks about his chakra. Not their chakra. Byakugan users see chakra. Genjutsu aren't chakra just illusions that manipulate a persons chakra. It shouldn't really be that hard to see that something isn't real.

Originally posted by Kento
And talks about his chakra. Not their chakra. Byakugan users see chakra. Genjutsu aren't chakra just illusions that manipulate a persons chakra. It shouldn't really be that hard to see that something isn't real.


That makes sense, but there are illusions that affect the victim negatively (paralysis sharingan genjutsu, etc) while the caster remains where they are.

Also, while talking about his chakra, she could just as well as be answering the Bunshin part .

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix


Kirin destroys Neji . Yes it has a long build-up time, but Sasuke is capable of staying in this fight for that long, and then landing it.

Yea, that's true.

i dont see how kirin would help him... nejis a purely close quarters fighter... sasuke would never be able to get far enough way so that hes not injured by the large AOE kirin has.

sasuke would still win though. but AOE attacks would hurt him.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That makes sense, but there are illusions that affect the victim negatively while the caster remains where they are.

Also, while talking about his chakra, she could just as well as be answering the Bunshin part . Not all the time though. And if they were going through him because of a genjutsu he wouldn't be sitting there. After all Sasuke and Itachi created genjutsu that had them seeming to be not where they were. But really Hyuuga's also have to have extremely good chakra control so them being able to break a genjutsu shouldn't be that hard even without Byakugan. That just gives them more of an ability to tell it's a genjutsu and probably can't really counter it.

It's probably a bit of both. Because clones nor genjutsu have chakra.

Originally posted by Kento
Not all the time though. And if they were going through him because of a genjutsu he wouldn't be sitting there. After all Sasuke and Itachi created genjutsu that had them seeming to be not where they were. But really Hyuuga's also have to have extremely good chakra control so them being able to break a genjutsu shouldn't be that hard even without Byakugan. That just gives them more of an ability to tell it's a genjutsu and probably can't really counter it.

It's probably a bit of both. Because clones nor genjutsu have chakra.

Well, yeah, but again, Sasuke has used genjutsu that paralyzes the opponent or at least makes them unable to move. He used a paralysis one against Orochimaru, one against Kirabi (though that was MS), and one against Shii.


Besides, it's not like he hasn't fought against someone who could 'see through' genjutsu but didn't have the Sharingan (Deidara). He used a genjutsu at the end that was able to fool Deidara, albeit, D didn't have a doujutsu.
However, he still proved capable of seeing through Sasuke's earlier genjutsus, so his left eye wasn't sub par, and it presumably functioned by checking for chakra, like the someone with the Byakugan would.


See, even though they have good chakra control, would they be able to tell their chakra levels are not normal? If they can, then sure, they can break out of it by jolting their chakra. That whole thing would still take a short amount of time though, but they are still open during that.

True. Trust Hinata to answer both of Sakura's question with one answer

~ Speaking of Deidara's left eye...WTF is up with it? Sometimes it is shown as some sort of mechanical camera, while at others, it looks like a normal eye

I think it's a normal (albeit anti-genjutsu trained) eye which he sometimes wears an eyepiece over for magnification or what have you.

Originally posted by Q99
I think it's a normal (albeit anti-genjutsu trained) eye which he sometimes wears an eyepiece over for magnification or what have you.

Ahh, that makes sense. I'm actually glad Kishi wasn't being an idiot like he sometimes is, and that Deidara's left eye is normal.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i dont see how kirin would help him... nejis a purely close quarters fighter... sasuke would never be able to get far enough way so that hes not injured by the large AOE kirin has.

sasuke would still win though. but AOE attacks would hurt him.

Sasuke isn't some dumb douche, he knows Neji's speciality is in close range. Neji easily has the advantage there in these stipulations, but all he has against mid range is his Heavenly Spin afaik while Sasuke has better options there. He'll try to enter mid range IMO, while starting the build-up for Kirin.

IMO, Sasuke is shown to be much faster than Neji when it comes to movement speed (screw the stats in the DB).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, yeah, but again, Sasuke has used genjutsu that paralyzes the opponent or at least makes them unable to move. He used a paralysis one against Orochimaru, one against Kirabi (though that was MS), and one against Shii. Yea, there is a lot of different type of genjutsu even Shisui's controlling genjutsu. But Oro was about dead, and not really in any shape to control chakra or his body in general, Bee may or may not have good chakra control. He doesn't exactly need it so we don't know how he'd do with just normal genjutsu without his beast. I mean unlike Naruto he obviously has chakra control but it probably isn't superb to the point like a Hyuuga nor a Medninja would be. And Shii really the same way. I mean normal ninja don't have the chakra control a Hyuuga or Medninja would have either.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Besides, it's not like he hasn't fought against someone who could 'see through' genjutsu but didn't have the Sharingan (Deidara). He used a genjutsu at the end that was able to fool Deidara, albeit, D didn't have a doujutsu.
However, he still proved capable of seeing through Sasuke's earlier genjutsus, so his left eye wasn't sub par, and it presumably functioned by checking for chakra, like the someone with the Byakugan would. Eh, Deidara's ability was trained though...or helped through some unknown means wh knows....Byakugan's is more of a natural thing. I mean Deidara's ability compared to the Byakugan is probably like the normal sharingan compared to MS.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
See, even though they have good chakra control, would they be able to tell their chakra levels are not normal? If they can, then sure, they can break out of it by jolting their chakra. That whole thing would still take a short amount of time though, but they are still open during that. The thing really would depend on what type of genjutsu is being used on them. If it's paralyzing one they probably won't have the time to do anything, if it's just an illusion it really wouldn't have any effect as they attacking illusions wouldn't have any chakra and they would see the caster and probably wouldn't really hinder them much. And if it's something like Tsukiyomi from Itachi, knowing won't help and they won't be able to break out even with good chakra control more likely than not.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True. Trust Hinata to answer both of Sakura's question with one answer lol

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
~ Speaking of Deidara's left eye...WTF is up with it? Sometimes it is shown as some sort of mechanical camera, while at others, it looks like a normal eye Yea, not really sure what's up with his eye at all. I've been wondering that since his first appearance.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke isn't some dumb douche, he knows Neji's speciality is in close range. Neji easily has the advantage there in these stipulations, but all he has against mid range is his Heavenly Spin afaik while Sasuke has better options there. He'll try to enter mid range IMO, while starting the build-up for Kirin.

IMO, Sasuke is shown to be much faster than Neji when it comes to movement speed (screw the stats in the DB). Neji has that one attack he used against Kisame that's ranged.

Sasuke's got more feats so of course. But we do know Neji was able to beat weightless Lee who even has more speed feats than Neji. I don't think it's so much Neji's speed more that his eyes are a weaker version of the sharingan's precog without it being actual precog like the sharingan.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix



Sasuke isn't some dumb douche, he knows Neji's speciality is in close range. Neji easily has the advantage there in these stipulations, but all he has against mid range is his Heavenly Spin afaik while Sasuke has better options there. He'll try to enter mid range IMO, while starting the build-up for Kirin.

IMO, Sasuke is shown to be much faster than Neji when it comes to movement speed (screw the stats in the DB).

but thats my point... because nejis only a CQC fighter he'll spend the entire time closing the distance between him and sasuke, he wont allow himself to get drawn into a fight at mid range. if sasuke tries to keep the fight at mid range he'll be too busy running to use any jutsu...

Considering summons seem to be still allowed, Sasuke has a hawk now. So staying at a distance will not be hard. Neither will be flying. Katon, then use Kirin.

Originally posted by Kento
Yea, there is a lot of different type of genjutsu even Shisui's controlling genjutsu. But Oro was about dead, and not really in any shape to control chakra or his body in general, Bee may or may not have good chakra control. He doesn't exactly need it so we don't know how he'd do with just normal genjutsu without his beast. I mean unlike Naruto he obviously has chakra control but it probably isn't superb to the point like a Hyuuga nor a Medninja would be. And Shii really the same way. I mean normal ninja don't have the chakra control a Hyuuga or Medninja would have either.

Oro, hmm, I suppose you have a point, but he was beaten by the same genjutsu years ago . Also, I don't know about you, but I don't think the physical wounds he suffered in the fight had any effect on him when he was in Pedo-dimension.

Bee was still caught by the genjutsu, and he was incapacitated for a brief moment.
Though my entire point was that paralysis genjutsu exist. Even if Neji manages to break a genjutsu he's in, he's vulnerable during that short period of time.

Shii's a genjutsu and sensor type. He even seems to be a healer, just like Sakura, so he obviously has at least good, if not great, chakra control.

Originally posted by Kento
Eh, Deidara's ability was trained though...or helped through some unknown means wh knows....Byakugan's is more of a natural thing. I mean Deidara's ability compared to the Byakugan is probably like the normal sharingan compared to MS.

We can't say that for certain. He's trained his eye for a few years at least, and he proved capable of seeing through Sasuke's genjutsu. You cannot deny that TS Sasuke is no slacker when it comes to genjutsu .

Originally posted by Kento
The thing really would depend on what type of genjutsu is being used on them. If it's paralyzing one they probably won't have the time to do anything, if it's just an illusion it really wouldn't have any effect as they attacking illusions wouldn't have any chakra and they would see the caster and probably wouldn't really hinder them much. And if it's something like Tsukiyomi from Itachi, knowing won't help and they won't be able to break out even with good chakra control more likely than not.

Of course, it does depend on what type. Sasuke has shown he can use various genjutsu though.

Yeah, I don't think anyone without the Sharingan could break out of Itachi's Tsukiyomi.

It really is in Sasuke's favour, even in these stipulations. Though that's only because Kishi has all but forgotten about Neji.

Also, which version of Sasuke is this? Hebi Sasuke without the curse mark? Or Taka Sasuke without the MS?


Originally posted by Kento
Yea, not really sure what's up with his eye at all. I've been wondering that since his first appearance.

Yeah, Q99's answer makes sense. He apparently uses some sort of telescopic device.

Originally posted by Kento
Neji has that one attack he used against Kisame that's ranged.

Sasuke's got more feats so of course. But we do know Neji was able to beat weightless Lee who even has more speed feats than Neji. I don't think it's so much Neji's speed more that his eyes are a weaker version of the sharingan's precog without it being actual precog like the sharingan.

Hmm, hold on, lemme check out the attack. On second thought, do you know which chapter that attack is in?

Well, Lee is someone who entirely relies on Taijutsu. So at some point or the other, he'll have to enter Neji's fighting range.

Also, even I don't know if Byakugan can see fast movement. There was a scene in the anime where Neji comments on Hinata's eye movements (just before their fight) and how he could see them, even though they were fast. I dunno if that is anime only.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
but thats my point... because nejis only a CQC fighter he'll spend the entire time closing the distance between him and sasuke, he wont allow himself to get drawn into a fight at mid range. if sasuke tries to keep the fight at mid range he'll be too busy running to use any jutsu...

Except Sasuke is shown to be a lot faster than Neji. He can cover more distance than Neji can in the same interval of time. He'll have the advantage if he tries to put more distance between them IMO. If Neji tries to close the distance, he also won't be able to use any jutsu.


Of course you realize, if Neji wastes time chasing down Sasuke, and Sasuke tries to put more distance, it will be nothing more than a game of tag .

it would be fun to watch. 313

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Oro, hmm, I suppose you have a point, but he was beaten by the same genjutsu years ago . Also, I don't know about you, but I don't think the physical wounds he suffered in the fight had any effect on him when he was in Pedo-dimension.

Bee was still caught by the genjutsu, and he was incapacitated for a brief moment.
Though my entire point was that paralysis genjutsu exist. Even if Neji manages to break a genjutsu he's in, he's vulnerable during that short period of time.

Shii's a genjutsu and sensor type. He even seems to be a healer, just like Sakura, so he obviously has at least good, if not great, chakra control. But Oro gets weak against Sharingan. Besides Sasuke's eyes have always said to be superior to Itachi's so that was just dumb on Oro's part. He could have killed Sasuke but didn't.

Neji can still use a deflecting amount of chakra without actually using Kaiten. it's how he survived against Kidomaru. So unless he paralyzes him, and then can do Chidori before Neji can free himself paralyzing genjutsu won't work that well just throw Neji off his attack. Course Neji doesn't even have to be looking at Sasuke to fight, and Neji has a lot more knowledge on Sharingan than Sasuke has on Byakugan.

Hmm I forgot about this.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
We can't say that for certain. He's trained his eye for a few years at least, and he proved capable of seeing through Sasuke's genjutsu. You cannot deny that TS Sasuke is no slacker when it comes to genjutsu . I can say it for certain because it's the Byakugan. No other reason is need.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Of course, it does depend on what type. Sasuke has shown he can use various genjutsu though.

Yeah, I don't think anyone without the Sharingan could break out of Itachi's Tsukiyomi.

It really is in Sasuke's favour, even in these stipulations. Though that's only because Kishi has all but forgotten about Neji.

Also, which version of Sasuke is this? Hebi Sasuke without the curse mark? Or Taka Sasuke without the MS? Though only one kind would really serve any purpose. And that's forgetting that Neji has at least some knowledge on not looking at a Sharingan users eyes. He is after all always around Gai who always talks about Kakashi, and he's also seen what Sasuke can do while Sasuke has pretty much zero knowledge on what a Hyuuga can do. That might help Neji out a lot being Gai's pupil and knowing how Gai would fight Kakashi.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hmm, hold on, lemme check out the attack. On second thought, do you know which chapter that attack is in?

Well, Lee is someone who entirely relies on Taijutsu. So at some point or the other, he'll have to enter Neji's fighting range.

Also, even I don't know if Byakugan can see fast movement. There was a scene in the anime where Neji comments on Hinata's eye movements (just before their fight) and how he could see them, even though they were fast. I dunno if that is anime only. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v29/c256/7.html

He's pretty far away, for the fact he's a close range fighter for the most part.

But if Neji gets a hit on Sasuke with his gentle fist style then Sasuke won't be doing much of anything. But Neji doesn't have many feats to actually say what he can or can't do. Obviously he's gotten much stronger to become Jonin but besides the Kisame fight he doesn't have any fight shown as against himself the fight is off-panel. But his Kaiten doesn't seem to have gotten bigger in the holes when shown.

Not in all ways. Itachi has the better Tsukiyomi (though Sasuke is at least as good if not better at genjutsu defense, breaking free of it), Sasuke seems better at Amaterasu, Itachi was better with Susano'o.

Originally posted by Q99
Not in all ways. Itachi has the better Tsukiyomi (though Sasuke is at least as good if not better at genjutsu defense, breaking free of it), Sasuke seems better at Amaterasu, Itachi was better with Susano'o. Even back when Sasuke had 2 Tomoe Sharingan his eyes were said by Oro to be superior to Itachi. What jutsu Sasuke is better at doesn't really factor in. His eyes are just better he's just much weaker than Itachi. And not as smart or skilled.

... Under what grounds are they better?

Other than because Oro said so I mean.

They were in a body he could conceivably pluck them from?

Maybe he was just being optimistic.

Originally posted by NemeBro
... Under what grounds are they better?

Other than because Oro said so I mean. By beating Tsukiyomi obviously.

But in seriousness I'm almost certain Sasuke eyes being superior than Itachi's has been stated by Madara also or at least somewhere else not just by Oro. But I don't feel like looking to check.

Originally posted by Kento
But Oro gets weak against Sharingan. Besides Sasuke's eyes have always said to be superior to Itachi's so that was just dumb on Oro's part. He could have killed Sasuke but didn't.

True, he could have killed Sasuke had he wanted, but he wanted Sasuke's body. Besides, Sasuke already admitted his victory against Orochimaru was due to his poor health.

I believe Sasuke's eyes were said to have the potential to be better than Itachi's...or that Sasuke had the potential to surpass Itachi. Though yeah, I think that Sasuke's 3-tomoe was better than Itachi's 3-tomoe.

Originally posted by Kento
Neji can still use a deflecting amount of chakra without actually using Kaiten. it's how he survived against Kidomaru. So unless he paralyzes him, and then can do Chidori before Neji can free himself paralyzing genjutsu won't work that well just throw Neji off his attack. Course Neji doesn't even have to be looking at Sasuke to fight, and Neji has a lot more knowledge on Sharingan than Sasuke has on Byakugan.

Ehh, I don't know if that'll work on an attack like Chidori Spear. Kidomaru's arrows were physical, Chidori spear is focused Raiton-chakra.

You can't just assume Sasuke does not have any knowledge on the Byakugan. Sure, Neji will have knowledge on the Sharingan (given how Gai is gay-obsessed with Kakashi ), but Sasuke could have learned something about the Byakugan during his time with Kakashi. I mean, we obviously don't know everything he learnt at the hands of Kakashi.
Not to mention, Oro probably told him about it as well.

Originally posted by Kento
Hmm I forgot about this.

Damn right you did . It could have been an MS jutsu, but Sasuke was shown with the regular Sharingan.

Originally posted by Kento
I can say it for certain because it's the Byakugan. No other reason is need.

but...he's up against Sharingan hax.

Originally posted by Kento
Though only one kind would really serve any purpose. And that's forgetting that Neji has at least some knowledge on not looking at a Sharingan users eyes. He is after all always around Gai who always talks about Kakashi, and he's also seen what Sasuke can do while Sasuke has pretty much zero knowledge on what a Hyuuga can do. That might help Neji out a lot being Gai's pupil and knowing how Gai would fight Kakashi.

Again, we don't know if Sasuke has zero knowledge. Orochimaru must know about the Byakugan, and he would have passed on that knowledge to his favourite underling.

You think Guy would have trained him to look at Sasuke's feet? He might have, though I don't know if it would be any good against an opponent that is around as fast as Lee.

Originally posted by Kento
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v29/c256/7.html

He's pretty far away, for the fact he's a close range fighter for the most part.

But if Neji gets a hit on Sasuke with his gentle fist style then Sasuke won't be doing much of anything. But Neji doesn't have many feats to actually say what he can or can't do. Obviously he's gotten much stronger to become Jonin but besides the Kisame fight he doesn't have any fight shown as against himself the fight is off-panel. But his Kaiten doesn't seem to have gotten bigger in the holes when shown.

True, which is why I said Neji has a huge advantage in CQC, and that Sasuke will want to stay mid-range. He's perfectly capable of staying in said range, given how he's shown to be faster.
Also, even if Neji does get into close range, what stops Sasuke from using Chidori Nagashi? I don't think Neji would be able to stop an attack like that.

That attack is pretty much pure chakra. Sasuke will probably see that coming from the moment Neji uses the attack.

~ Meh, you already said that Sasuke wins, so why are you debating anyway? C'mon man, I understand you hate Sasuke and love the Byakugan, but this is stupid .

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ehh, I don't know if that'll work on an attack like Chidori Spear. Kidomaru's arrows were physical, Chidori spear is focused Raiton-chakra. Well Kaiten still can deflect chakra. And it's basically a weaker version of that. So it's possible it could deflect it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You can't just assume Sasuke does not have any knowledge on the Byakugan. Sure, Neji will have knowledge on the Sharingan (given how Gai is gay-obsessed with Kakashi ), but Sasuke could have learned something about the Byakugan during his time with Kakashi. I mean, we obviously don't know everything he learnt at the hands of Kakashi.
Not to mention, Oro probably told him about it as well. Kakashi doesn't really know much about the Byakugan, and Oro probably knows only slightly more than Kakashi. And Neji has at least seen Sasuke in action, and more than likely seen Kakashi in action using his sharingan.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
but...he's up against Sharingan hax. But what does that have to do with Deidara's trained eye being weaker than the Byakugan? lol


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You think Guy would have trained him to look at Sasuke's feet? He might have, though I don't know if it would be any good against an opponent that is around as fast as Lee. I don't mean fighting by looking at his feet. He can see 360 degrees. He doesn't have to even look him eye to eye to fight him. Looking down at the ground and he could still see everything Sasuke does.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True, which is why I said Neji has a huge advantage in CQC, and that Sasuke will want to stay mid-range. He's perfectly capable of staying in said range, given how he's shown to be faster.
Also, even if Neji does get into close range, what stops Sasuke from using Chidori Nagashi? I don't think Neji would be able to stop an attack like that.

That attack is pretty much pure chakra. Sasuke will probably see that coming from the moment Neji uses the attack. Eh, Neji still has things to attack from said range. So it's not like staying mid-range is going to really keep Neji from doing anything. As for Chidori Nagashi, it's possible. But all Neji has to do is start Kaiten for it to work.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
~ Meh, you already said that Sasuke wins, so why are you debating anyway? C'mon man, I understand you hate Sasuke and love the Byakugan, but this is stupid . Because it's not like it's a stomp in Sasuke's favor. That's really the only reason. And I only think Sasuke wins because Neji has no feats. But I actually think without Susanoo that Neji can put up a decent fight, or should be able to.

lol, if not for the nerfing Neji would die from one Amaterasu... Sasuke doesn't even need Susanoo.

Eh, with Kaiten it's possible to block Amaterasu.

How? Sasuke can just have it appear in the center of the vortex, since it manifests wherever he's looking at.

there is no "inside" of kaiten.

And? Kaiten emits outward, Amaterasu forms at a person. It starts forming, Neji starts forming Kaiten. It gets spun away.

It won't be spun away because it will be burning him up.

Yeah, you don't just...spin away Ametarasu, whatever it hits, it burns, period.

apparently not, considering temaris wind was able to blow it away and gaaras sand defend him and him and his team from it.

Temari's wind was able to blow away the armor that had the fire on it, but the fire was still burning.

Interposing something between the amaterasu, like sand or fire, does work. A chakra barrier might burn as well in place of Neji himself.

Temari didn't blow it out she just removed the parts it was burning. If Neji himself is burning, well tough luck for him.

Yeah, ask Raikage, he had to lop his arm off. Ain't no stoppin that.

Originally posted by King Kandy
It won't be spun away because it will be burning him up. It won't be touching him. How will it be burning him up?

Originally posted by Kento
It won't be touching him. How will it be burning him up?

Eventually, Neji has to stop spinning, the Amaterasu flames burn for what, 7 days. Now that might be hyperbole, but it's at least a few hours. I doubt Neji can stay spinning that long, and when the barrier dies down, I don't think the flames just dissapate with it.

Originally posted by Kento
It won't be touching him. How will it be burning him up?
Because Kaiten or no, it will be projected directly on Neji himself where he can't get it off.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Because Kaiten or no, it will be projected directly on Neji himself where he can't get it off.

Yeah, he's right, the flames materialize where you look...so he looks at Neji, boom.

Originally posted by KingD19
Eventually, Neji has to stop spinning, the Amaterasu flames burn for what, 7 days. Now that might be hyperbole, but it's at least a few hours. I doubt Neji can stay spinning that long, and when the barrier dies down, I don't think the flames just dissapate with it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Because Kaiten or no, it will be projected directly on Neji himself where he can't get it off. Amaterasu was blocked by Gaara's sand. It also forms at what Sasuke sees. Kaiten creates a wall of chakra that obscures Neji, Sasuke will only be seeing Kaiten. Kaiten may not last long, but its long enough to obscure Neji, block Amaterasu, and spin it away from himself.

Originally posted by Kento
Amaterasu was blocked by Gaara's sand. It also forms at what Sasuke sees. Kaiten creates a wall of chakra that obscures Neji, Sasuke will only be seeing Kaiten. Kaiten may not last long, but its long enough to obscure Neji, block Amaterasu, and spin it away from himself.
If he can't see Neji, he wouldn't fire Amaterasu. It's really quite simple.

Originally posted by King Kandy
If he can't see Neji, he wouldn't fire Amaterasu. It's really quite simple. Sasuke starts Amaterasu, Neji starts Kaiten, Sasuke no longer sees Neji, Amaterasu doesn't appear on Neji. Even if Neji doesn't fully form it before Sasuke unleashed Amaterasu it'll hit the wall of chakra that goes into Kaiten, and not Neji.

To start Amatersu, you just look at someone. There's no hand signals, no nothing, they just burst into flames. What's to stop Sasuke from using a regular jutsu, then when hit him with Amaterasu.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke starts Amaterasu, Neji starts Kaiten, Sasuke no longer sees Neji, Amaterasu doesn't appear on Neji. Even if Neji doesn't fully form it before Sasuke unleashed Amaterasu it'll hit the wall of chakra that goes into Kaiten, and not Neji. cmon do you really think neji will react that fast. i understand if he knew about or seen the jutsu but i doubt he would be anle to dodge that fast if he had never seen or even heard bout this jutsu

He would likely see the chakra being sent to the eye in large amounts. If the chakra comes out as an invisible bolt (we can't really tell how fast it is due to the invisibility) he might have the brief moment needed to put it up.

Originally posted by Kento
Well Kaiten still can deflect chakra. And it's basically a weaker version of that. So it's possible it could deflect it.

But could it deflect chakra that has been shaped into a powerful penetrative form?

Meh, Sasuke has a lot more chakra than Neji anyway . He'll keep spamming attacks and forcing Neji to use his Kaiten. Then, he'll end it.

Originally posted by Kento
Kakashi doesn't really know much about the Byakugan, and Oro probably knows only slightly more than Kakashi. And Neji has at least seen Sasuke in action, and more than likely seen Kakashi in action using his sharingan.

Nahh, Oro is pretty knowledgeable on Konoha. He probably researched the Byakugan's abilities and the Hyuuga style of Taijutsu before he settled on the Sharingan.
Kidomaru heard of Jyuuken from Orochimaru, and Kidomaru wasn't Oro's favourite. Besides, two & a half years passed between Pt1 and 2, Oro must have acquired more info during that time don't you think?

As for Kakashi, I guess you are right.

Originally posted by Kento
But what does that have to do with Deidara's trained eye being weaker than the Byakugan? lol

Nothing, it shows that it is stronger than Byakugan at sensing genjutsu. It has shown resistance to genjutsu from a skilled genjutsu user, while the other has not .

Originally posted by Kento
I don't mean fighting by looking at his feet. He can see 360 degrees. He doesn't have to even look him eye to eye to fight him. Looking down at the ground and he could still see everything Sasuke does.

Right, I forgot >__>.
Well, if he has a '360 degree field of vision', wouldn't he technically still be looking at Sasuke in the eye?

Originally posted by Kento
Eh, Neji still has things to attack from said range. So it's not like staying mid-range is going to really keep Neji from doing anything. As for Chidori Nagashi, it's possible. But all Neji has to do is start Kaiten for it to work.

Chidori Nagashi probably starts faster than Kaiten does .

What else does he have to attack from mid-range, apart from the blast of chakra, provided he doesn't have some sort of channel for his chakra? He doesn't use Kunai, needles, and the like does he mmm?

Tis a shame really, with his Byakugan, if he had Tenten's accuracy, he could do a lot of damage from mid-range with even needles.

Originally posted by Kento
Because it's not like it's a stomp in Sasuke's favor. That's really the only reason. And I only think Sasuke wins because Neji has no feats. But I actually think without Susanoo that Neji can put up a decent fight, or should be able to.

Certainly a stomp not in these stipulations .

Without Susano'o? Depends. Sasuke still has the Hawk Summon and Kirin. Neji definitely won't be getting close to Sasuke then.

As for Amaterasu, I doubt Neji will be able to deflect the amount of black flames that Sasuke shot at Kirabi, even with Kaiten.
Also, Neji is somewhat discernible within the Kaiten. It's also nothing but spinning chakra. Chances are that Sasuke will be able to see Neji through it, considering Chakra isn't physical, solid, and opaque.

Originally posted by yungz22
cmon do you really think neji will react that fast. i understand if he knew about or seen the jutsu but i doubt he would be anle to dodge that fast if he had never seen or even heard bout this jutsu He's not dodging, more bringing up a shield by expelling chakra for it to hit. Which really wouldn't be that slow at all. And if a person is wearing clothes it'll burn the clothes first so it will hit the chakra that will be expanding away from Neji. He doesn't have to dodge he just needs to be able to expel chakra that will be the start of Kaiten.

But he really doesn't know about Amaterasu sure, but a black vortex near him I would think Kaiten would be his first move. And it's just a matter of could he do it in time without knowing what it was.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh, Sasuke has a lot more chakra than Neji anyway . He'll keep spamming attacks and forcing Neji to use his Kaiten. Then, he'll end it. Eh cause Sasuke has plot induced chakra levels. But you got to admit the Hyuuga, at least Neji and Hiashi have godly amounts of chakra. They expel pure chakra in extremely large doses, and Neji has done it like three or four times in one battle back in part 1.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Nahh, Oro is pretty knowledgeable on Konoha. He probably researched the Byakugan's abilities and the Hyuuga style of Taijutsu before he settled on the Sharingan.
Kidomaru heard of Jyuuken from Orochimaru, and Kidomaru wasn't Oro's favourite. Besides, two & a half years passed between Pt1 and 2, Oro must have acquired more info during that time don't you think? Well who's to say that Kakashi and Oro don't have the same knowledge. Both seen what Neji, and Byakugan can do during the prelims. We don't really know if Oro has any vast knowledge on it. They are one of the more secret clans. Keep to themselves, and even seem to have their own set of rules amongst themselves, and keep everything in family.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Right, I forgot >__>.
Well, if he has a '360 degree field of vision', wouldn't he technically still be looking at Sasuke in the eye? Ya know I've always wondered that myself.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
As for Amaterasu, I doubt Neji will be able to deflect the amount of black flames that Sasuke shot at Kirabi, even with Kaiten.
Also, Neji is somewhat discernible within the Kaiten. It's also nothing but spinning chakra. Chances are that Sasuke will be able to see Neji through it, considering Chakra isn't physical, solid, and opaque. Sasuke may see him slightly but Amaterasu doesn't appear through things. And Kaiten is a solid wall of chakra. Hiashi knocked out a whole squad of ninja with just Kaiten. Even then Katon isn't solid but Itachi's Amaterasu didn't go through it and hit Sasuke. Though that's probably not a good example as Itachi didn't want to hit Sasuke.

It won't be a black flame "near him", it will be a black flame that appears directly on him, since he's what Sasuke's looking at.

Eh, there really is no way to prove what I'm trying to say right so I'll just stop. Kaiten is basically just blocking Amaterasu by putting something in front of Sasuke's face since Amaterasu hasn't ever been shown to hit something through something else. Like how if Sasuke looks at Gaara, and starts Amaterasu, and Gaara blocks with sand. Would you say it still hits Gaara or would it hit the sand

Originally posted by Kento
Eh cause Sasuke has plot induced chakra levels. But you got to admit the Hyuuga, at least Neji and Hiashi have godly amounts of chakra. They expel pure chakra in extremely large doses, and Neji has done it like three or four times in one battle back in part 1.

Hard to say if Sasuke's chakra is plot-induced, since technically, everyone's level of chakra is plot-induced. I sort of agree with you, don't get me wrong, but he is still shown to have a very high amount of chakra.

As for the Hyuugas, yeah, they have a high amount of chakra. I don't know if it is 'godly' though, since they have excellent chakra control and can detect chakra just as well too. So it's possible they didn't put a whole lot of chakra, but just enough.

Originally posted by Kento
Well who's to say that Kakashi and Oro don't have the same knowledge. Both seen what Neji, and Byakugan can do during the prelims. We don't really know if Oro has any vast knowledge on it. They are one of the more secret clans. Keep to themselves, and even seem to have their own set of rules amongst themselves, and keep everything in family.

For one, Oro is someone who loves to have knowledge, and he probably researched the abilities of the Byakugan. He was able to obtain info on the Sharingan somehow. It most likely was before the massacre, and the Uchiha are a clan that also safeguards its secrets, not to the extent of the Hyuuga though.

True, they are secretive, but my point was that you can't just assume Sasuke will be walking into this fight with no knowledge. He'll at least know that entering close combat with Neji without Susano'o would be the equivalent of stepping into a pool of sharks while covered in blood.

Originally posted by Kento
Ya know I've always wondered that myself.

Yeah. It's possible he still has to focus his sight to properly see Sasuke much like we focus with our eyes, but we can't really know for sure.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke may see him slightly but Amaterasu doesn't appear through things. And Kaiten is a solid wall of chakra. Hiashi knocked out a whole squad of ninja with just Kaiten. Even then Katon isn't solid but Itachi's Amaterasu didn't go through it and hit Sasuke. Though that's probably not a good example as Itachi didn't want to hit Sasuke.

It is still chakra, and the Sharingan can see chakra and most likely see through chakra as well. Besides, there are times when the Sharingan is shown to be able to see through muscle and perhaps bone >__>.
It only appears solid because the user is spinning rapidly and is able to stop everything.
Would Neji really be able to deflect nearly the same amount of black flames that Sasuke used against the Hachibi? He can't keep spinning forever.

Also, nothing to say about the Hawk summon? You know that's all Sasuke needs to punk Neji, along with Kirin .

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hard to say if Sasuke's chakra is plot-induced, since technically, everyone's level of chakra is plot-induced. I sort of agree with you, don't get me wrong, but he is still shown to have a very high amount of chakra.

As for the Hyuugas, yeah, they have a high amount of chakra. I don't know if it is 'godly' though, since they have excellent chakra control and can detect chakra just as well too. So it's possible they didn't put a whole lot of chakra, but just enough. lol Yes, everybody has plot-induced chakra but usually those levels are actually shown regularly. Kakashi, and Shikamaru pretty much both use up their chakra in one fight. Kakashi gets bed-ridden using sharingan and even died, and every fight before the time skip Shika ran out of chakra each fight. And even Itachi had to rest pre-time skip after using two MS moves in a row, and could only use a few MS moves in one fight. Sasuke fought through five people with MS move spam.

Wasn't Kaiten said to be dangerous because of how much chakra it uses?


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
For one, Oro is someone who loves to have knowledge, and he probably researched the abilities of the Byakugan. He was able to obtain info on the Sharingan somehow. It most likely was before the massacre, and the Uchiha are a clan that also safeguards its secrets, not to the extent of the Hyuuga though.

True, they are secretive, but my point was that you can't just assume Sasuke will be walking into this fight with no knowledge. He'll at least know that entering close combat with Neji without Susano'o would be the equivalent of stepping into a pool of sharks while covered in blood. I guess it's possible he does but unlike the sharingan, which Oro wants simply for the fact it copies jutsu, which is widely known anyway, the byakugan has no real ability that Oro would want.

He may have some common knowledge but it's not like Sasuke's going to intend to let Neji hit him even if he didn't.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It is still chakra, and the Sharingan can see chakra and most likely see through chakra as well. Besides, there are times when the Sharingan is shown to be able to see through muscle and perhaps bone >__>.
It only appears solid because the user is spinning rapidly and is able to stop everything.
Would Neji really be able to deflect nearly the same amount of black flames that Sasuke used against the Hachibi? He can't keep spinning forever.

Also, nothing to say about the Hawk summon? You know that's all Sasuke needs to punk Neji, along with Kirin . Eh, It spreads out on what it hits, and quickly engulfs it. There really is no set size. So Neji doesn't have to deal with Hachibi covering amounts.

Pft Hawk summons get caught in 64 palms because they fail that much. Snake are cooler.

Originally posted by Kento
Eh, there really is no way to prove what I'm trying to say right so I'll just stop. Kaiten is basically just blocking Amaterasu by putting something in front of Sasuke's face since Amaterasu hasn't ever been shown to hit something through something else. Like how if Sasuke looks at Gaara, and starts Amaterasu, and Gaara blocks with sand. Would you say it still hits Gaara or would it hit the sand
It will hit the sand, but how will Neji know that Sasuke's going to use it, all it takes is looking at Neji.

Well hold on, what Sasuke used against Gaara wasn't Amaterasu, it was an Enton. An Enton manipulates already existing flames (and thus has to move to the target). Amaterasu just makes it appear at the target.

sasuke will win

Originally posted by Kento
lol Yes, everybody has plot-induced chakra but usually those levels are actually shown regularly. Kakashi, and Shikamaru pretty much both use up their chakra in one fight. Kakashi gets bed-ridden using sharingan and even died, and every fight before the time skip Shika ran out of chakra each fight. And even Itachi had to rest pre-time skip after using two MS moves in a row, and could only use a few MS moves in one fight. Sasuke fought through five people with MS move spam.

Wasn't Kaiten said to be dangerous because of how much chakra it uses?

Earlier against Deidara, he used a bunch of Chidori moves, snake summons, hurt himself tremendously, and then managed to summon a huge-ass snake and use a genjutsu on it. Sasuke has high levels of chakra in pt 2, that much you cannot deny. Saying it's plot induced is perhaps just your hatred for the douche .
Granted, he ran out rather quickly against Itachi, though he did perform that oral rebirth tech, and was using some chakra to hold back Oro. He must have used up a bunch of chakra when trying to overcome Tsukiyomi as well.

Besides, against the Kages, he used Amaterasu twice (once against the Raikage, and once for the Entons I presume), and then the Enton techniques. Entons use the black flames that have already appeared, so they don't drain a huge amount of of chakra.
I think Susano'o drains more of your life-force than your chakra. I also think those two (l.f and chakra) are different.

Dunno, but it uses a fairly large amount of Chakra. Guess Neji is probably low in the upper echelon (i.e. in the upper tier, but low in said tier)
Also, damn, the Branch family must have been incredibly weak before . They weren't allowed to even learn Kaiten or the other techniques.

Originally posted by Kento
I guess it's possible he does but unlike the sharingan, which Oro wants simply for the fact it copies jutsu, which is widely known anyway, the byakugan has no real ability that Oro would want.

He may have some common knowledge but it's not like Sasuke's going to intend to let Neji hit him even if he didn't.

Doesn't mean that he wouldn't have researched it at some point. Kidomaru heard about what Jyuuken could do from Oro. That was a few years back, and Kidomaru wasn't his favourite sex slave like Sasuke was.

Not too sure about that. If he had zero knowledge, he'd probably try to use his sword first. Also, does Madara count? He definitely should have solid knowledge on the Byakugan IMO.

Originally posted by Kento
Eh, It spreads out on what it hits, and quickly engulfs it. There really is no set size. So Neji doesn't have to deal with Hachibi covering amounts.

Pft Hawk summons get caught in 64 palms because they fail that much. Snake are cooler.

I won't even argue against that as now that I think about it, Sasuke wouldn't even use Tailed-beast engulfing amounts against Neji. He'd probably use the same amount that he used on Raikage.
I don't know if Neji has the reaction time to stop Amaterasu, provided he doesn't already have Kaiten up. Amaterasu appears on the target if there is no barrier, and Neji doesn't have the reflexes that the Raikage does.

Pahh, Neji wishes he had a summon as cool as Snakes and Hawks .

~ Also, mind explaining this page? Karin seems to think that Sasuke and herself might be caught in a genjutsu, despite Danzou's chakra source being singular & where Karin saw Danzou.
Don't forget, Karin's possibly the best sensor in the manga.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/477-18/3

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Dunno, but it uses a fairly large amount of Chakra. Guess Neji is probably low in the upper echelon (i.e. in the upper tier, but low in said tier)
Also, damn, the Branch family must have been incredibly weak before . They weren't allowed to even learn Kaiten or the other techniques. I don't think it had to do with being weaker, just to do with they weren't the main family so they weren't allowed to learn the moves. Makes me wonder how Neji learned them on his own if he wasn't suppose to know of them.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
~ Also, mind explaining this page? Karin seems to think that Sasuke and herself might be caught in a genjutsu, despite Danzou's chakra source being singular & where Karin saw Danzou.
Don't forget, Karin's possibly the best sensor in the manga.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/477-18/3 But she says a few pages later that it's not a genjutsu because she doesn't sense an imbalance of chakra in either of them. It was just the logical explanation to assume it was genjutsu.

Originally posted by Kento
I don't think it had to do with being weaker, just to do with they weren't the main family so they weren't allowed to learn the moves. Makes me wonder how Neji learned them on his own if he wasn't suppose to know of them.

You misunderstood. I said they must have been weak before because they couldn't learn those techniques.

He's a genius, and his Byakugan is among the best. He just saw them in action and was able to deduce how they worked with his Byakugan.

Originally posted by Kento
But she says a few pages later that it's not a genjutsu because she doesn't sense an imbalance of chakra in either of them. It was just the logical explanation to assume it was genjutsu.

Could be. Or could she have assumed it was genjutsu since there were genjutsu that worked like that?
Meh, you're probably right.

Also, damn you for replying so late , took me a while to remember my point with that scan.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You misunderstood. I said they must have been weak before because they couldn't learn those techniques.

He's a genius, and his Byakugan is among the best. He just saw them in action and was able to deduce how they worked with his Byakugan. But aren't you saying they are weak because they couldn't learn those moves? Or maybe I'm just missing something. lol




Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Could be. Or could she have assumed it was genjutsu since there were genjutsu that worked like that?
Meh, you're probably right.

Also, damn you for replying so late , took me a while to remember my point with that scan. She still assumed it was genjutsu until Danzo did it again, and she realized that neither her nor Sasuke's chakra was being messed with though. So once she actually 'looked' to see if it was genjutsu when Danzo used Izanagi she knew for certain it wasn't. And what she can sense, the Byakugan can see..... >.>

Hahaha my plan worked. But truthfully I just noticed it. I'm not exactly sure why I didn't notice sooner, maybe I was distracted...hmm who knows.

Originally posted by Kento
But aren't you saying they are weak because they couldn't learn those moves? Or maybe I'm just missing something. lol

Actually, that is what I'm saying. I assumed you thought I was saying that the Branch family never learned those techniques because they were weak, when I had said that the Branch family must have been weak because they couldn't learn those techniques.

Apart from incapacitating somehow, what did the Branch family have if they couldn't learn the specialized moves like Kaiten and the Eight Trigrams?

Originally posted by Kento
She still assumed it was genjutsu until Danzo did it again, and she realized that neither her nor Sasuke's chakra was being messed with though. So once she actually 'looked' to see if it was genjutsu when Danzo used Izanagi she knew for certain it wasn't. And what she can sense, the Byakugan can see..... >.>

Hahaha my plan worked. But truthfully I just noticed it. I'm not exactly sure why I didn't notice sooner, maybe I was distracted...hmm who knows.

Well, yes, but why jump to the idea that Danzou could have used a genjutsu if she didn't think it could be a genjutsu in the first place? If she thinks it could be genjutsu, that would mean that there are genjutsu that can affect you, and still make you see or sense the caster's chakra source to be where the caster physically appears to be.
Also, Izanagi is classified as a genjutsu I think, even though it's more like reality-warping.

Damn, I thought you had conceded .

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Actually, that is what I'm saying. I assumed you thought I was saying that the Branch family never learned those techniques because they were weak, when I had said that the Branch family must have been weak because they couldn't learn those techniques.

Apart from incapacitating somehow, what did the Branch family have if they couldn't learn the specialized moves like Kaiten and the Eight Trigrams? To a main branch member they probably are weak but by normal standards I doubt they are weak. Though they Hyuuga clan really makes no sense if the Branch family is suppose to 'protect' the main members yet the main branch is the ones that can learn all the special secret moves.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, yes, but why jump to the idea that Danzou could have used a genjutsu if she didn't think it could be a genjutsu in the first place? If she thinks it could be genjutsu, that would mean that there are genjutsu that can affect you, and still make you see or sense the caster's chakra source to be where the caster physically appears to be.
Also, Izanagi is classified as a genjutsu I think, even though it's more like reality-warping. Because she didn't check Sasuke or her chakra at first. She was checking for Danzo's chakra. And since it was there, and wasn't coming from another place also she rules out Shadow Clone. That's when she thought it might be genjutsu, and checked herself, and Sasuke. As for genjutsu, well yea the caster is still going to be there, it's not like they disappear. Genjutsu just makes you see something that isn't there for the most part. It would just be, he's attacked, uses genjutsu, moves. Eh, Izanagi isn't really anything like genjutsu so I don't see why it would be under genjutsu. Guess we'll find out in the next databook, since I don't think ones came out with Izanagi in it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Damn, I thought you had conceded . I gave up on the Amaterasu/Kaiten thing. Though I still think it's very possible..... And Sasuke's plot induced chakra levels.

Originally posted by Kento
To a main branch member they probably are weak but by normal standards I doubt they are weak. Though they Hyuuga clan really makes no sense if the Branch family is suppose to 'protect' the main members yet the main branch is the ones that can learn all the special secret moves.

Indeed. I get that the main family needs to be more powerful than the branch, but if the branch family cannot learn even the simplest version of the Eight Trigrams, or the Kaiten, it's pretty sad.

I suppose Hizashi also must have learned the techniques. He should have pretty much been Hiashi's equal.

Originally posted by Kento
Because she didn't check Sasuke or her chakra at first. She was checking for Danzo's chakra. And since it was there, and wasn't coming from another place also she rules out Shadow Clone. That's when she thought it might be genjutsu, and checked herself, and Sasuke. As for genjutsu, well yea the caster is still going to be there, it's not like they disappear. Genjutsu just makes you see something that isn't there for the most part. It would just be, he's attacked, uses genjutsu, moves. Eh, Izanagi isn't really anything like genjutsu so I don't see why it would be under genjutsu. Guess we'll find out in the next databook, since I don't think ones came out with Izanagi in it.

Ehh, fine, I'll concede this, it's getting confusing >__>.

Madara calls it a genjutsu though. It doesn't seem to be a ninjutsu IMO, definitely not a Taijutsu.

Originally posted by Kento
I gave up on the Amaterasu/Kaiten thing. Though I still think it's very possible..... And Sasuke's plot induced chakra levels.

Yes, because not even the awesome Kaiten can stop the emoterasu .

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Indeed. I get that the main family needs to be more powerful than the branch, but if the branch family cannot learn even the simplest version of the Eight Trigrams, or the Kaiten, it's pretty sad.

I suppose Hizashi also must have learned the techniques. He should have pretty much been Hiashi's equal. Well I guess you don't need to learn 64 Palms to learn Gentle Fist style. So they probalby learn just the basic taijutsu. Though it shouldn't really be hard to learn if you see it being taught. Though I guess most branch members really don't care unlike Neji.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ehh, fine, I'll concede this, it's getting confusing >__>.

Madara calls it a genjutsu though. It doesn't seem to be a ninjutsu IMO, definitely not a Taijutsu. Yea, but last time I checked an illusion can't warp-reality even if it's just yourself in reality. It's more of a ninjutsu than a genjutsu imo. Sure Itachi can control the reality of Tsukiyomi, but it's still all in the person's head, and even that seems to be some low level telepathy.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes, because not even the awesome Kaiten can stop the emoterasu . That's what you think.

Originally posted by Kento
Well I guess you don't need to learn 64 Palms to learn Gentle Fist style. So they probalby learn just the basic taijutsu. Though it shouldn't really be hard to learn if you see it being taught. Though I guess most branch members really don't care unlike Neji.

Who knows. Neji's a genius after all, and his Byakugan is said to be extremely good, and he had to deduce how the techniques worked. So I don't think it's easy to learn the techniques just by watching them. I mean, sure, if he had a Byakugan/Sharingan hybrid, then it'd be easy .

Originally posted by Kento
Yea, but last time I checked an illusion can't warp-reality even if it's just yourself in reality. It's more of a ninjutsu than a genjutsu imo. Sure Itachi can control the reality of Tsukiyomi, but it's still all in the person's head, and even that seems to be some low level telepathy.

True. I suppose it's a ninjutsu/genjutsu hybrid of sorts, but more towards the genjutsu spectrum.
Besides, it does turn the damage into an illusion.

Originally posted by Kento
That's what you think.

Love for team-mates >>> Hyuga style defense .

Even without 64 trigrams, I think gentle fist is still fine for busting organs, and 360 vision also makes them better off for dodging attacks than most even sans rotation, so it'd still be a very dangerous style.

Originally posted by Kento
Yea, but last time I checked an illusion can't warp-reality even if it's just yourself in reality. It's more of a ninjutsu than a genjutsu imo. Sure Itachi can control the reality of Tsukiyomi, but it's still all in the person's head, and even that seems to be some low level telepathy.
Basically, as described in the manga, Izanagi is able to retroactively change real events into genjutsu and visa versa. So it's kind of like a special category, but it's classified as genjutsu whether it makes sense or not.