Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is a scenario where Master Shaak Ti, for some reason or another, turns against her fellow Jedi, and has to fight them in the Geonosis arena, gauntlet-style.

1. Even Piell
2. Plo Koon
3. Sora Bulq
4. Ki-Adi-Mundi
5. Cin Drallig
6. Anakin Skywalker (ROTS)
7. Obi-Wan Kenobi (ROTS)
8. Mace Windu
9. Yoda

How far do you think she will get?

i have no idea about the first 5, but she if she gets past them she definitely stops at 6

btw, does she get rest and/or heal between fights?

She dies either at 4 or 5. Probably 5.

Shaak Ti circa TFU?

With no rest, Plo and Bulq are gonna give her hell. Mundi would finish her off if she gets to him.

she falls at 4

I always thought she was better than Mundi, comments from some other masters make me think she was one of the best duelist of the order (iirc, wasn't she one of the "six great swordbeings"?). If she gets rest, she makes it to Anakin solidly IMO.

Yes, she does get rest in between each combatant, and this version of Shaak Ti is from the Clone Wars. But "Lord Lucien", where do you think she would get, IF she was from TFU?

Doesn't make it past 3.

Originally posted by Axle
Yes, she does get rest in between each combatant, and this version of Shaak Ti is from the Clone Wars. But "Lord Lucien", where do you think she would get, IF she was from TFU? The implied air quotes anger me.



With rest, she'll likely fall at Anakin. If not him, Mace. Though frankly, there's not much point to a gauntlet if the person gets recharged between every match.

Falls at 5 or 6. 6 most likely.

Could somebody remind me why she gets past Sora Bulq?

affirmative action?

I highly doubt she is going to get past Plo Koon, much less Sora Bulq. With rest, she falls at three. Without, no way does she beat Koon.

why

Originally posted by Unassuming Hero
Could somebody remind me why she gets past Sora Bulq?

Because she's got a title that says she's one of the 6 best fighters in the order at the least, and likely not at the bottom of those 6 judging by other comments?

Mace and Yoda think she's one of the best duelists in the order's history, and Galen Marek, who's a beast, barely managed to beat her with aid from the environment even after she'd been sitting on a planet without any real opponents for who knows how long.

Originally posted by Q99
Because she's got a title that says she's one of the 6 best fighters in the order at the least, and likely not at the bottom of those 6 judging by other comments?

Mace and Yoda think she's one of the best duelists in the order's history, and Galen Marek, who's a beast, barely managed to beat her with aid from the environment even after she'd been sitting on a planet without any real opponents for who knows how long.

cheers

Anoon Bondara was supposedly one of the greatest too. He'd get owned by half this list though. I don't see her beating Sora.

yeah... anoon isnt really one of the greatest though

most skilled duelists. just sayin'.

definitely not a top tier one though

most skilled would make him THE top tier actually.

he was never stated to be the most skilled duelist, for one, he was stated to have unmatched technical skills, for two he never did anything besides get killed my maul... so theres nothing to substantiate the idea that he was the best duelist in the order, and for three, i read somewhere that he himself felt that he was no match for the likes of yoda and mace, so obviously "second to none" would be hyperbole if that were true. i dont remember where i read that though so meh.

actually, the quote doesn't say "technical skill"
WE say that, in order to discount his quote. : )

The quote is actually pretty legitimate. It is just an anomaly though. It doesn't fit with the rest. That is the reason we discount it.

Yep, in the CLone Wars Campaign guide it says he "humbles himself" when he spars against "superior fighters" such as Qui-Gon Jinn and Mace Windu.

oh? thats where it says it?

thats excellent. t'will be helpful later.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
oh? thats where it says it?

thats excellent. t'will be helpful later.

The actual quote is in "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter"

i looked for it and couldnt find it.. and advent said it wasnt there.

! ! !

promise! lol, its in the early part of the book (before he dies obviously) The quote is by the Padawan Chick.

Dasha Assant? She looks like a mutant.


Didn't Gideon make a case about Bondara's skills? They were top tier circa 32 BBY, but when compared to the all-time greats, he wasn't amongst them.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Anoon Bondara was supposedly one of the greatest too. He'd get owned by half this list though. I don't see her beating Sora.

One of the best of the time, but I don't think he got an 'in order's history' compliment like she did. Nor do I see him doing nearly as well against Galen.

Personally I see Shaak-Ti as around Obi-Wan level, maybe even a bit higher.

Originally posted by Q99
Personally I see Shaak-Ti as around Obi-Wan level, maybe even a bit higher.

Obi-Wan's got better defense, which he is famous for, Shaak-ti's style is known for overall elegance, and Kenobi himself has specifically giving her props for being the most cunning Jedi warrior he's ever met who's taught him quite a few tricks.

She's known for her hand to hand skills as well.

I think they're both really good warriors who are better in some areas and worse in others compared to each other.

Q99
Because she's got a title that says she's one of the 6 best fighters in the order at the least, and likely not at the bottom of those 6 judging by other comments?Quote? Quote?Quote?

Also:

Note I was talking about Bondara not having a 'in the history of the order' quote. Bulq > Bondara.

'One of the great six swordbeings' and Mace and Windu considering her one of the best duelists in the order's history are both from the RotS Novel according to wookiepedia.

Where do you get this "one of the great siw swordbeings" nonsense. I liioked through it and saw no hint of it. The closest that it comes to is when it compares Obi-Wan's skills to other great swordsmen in the PT. That does not mean she is even close to being in the top six.
The quote is "There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become."

Cool no where in here does it say these are the top swordsmen of the order. Rather simply some of the great.

And I could not find a quote where Mace considers her one of the best duelist in the order's history.

I see her stop at 3.

Can we chill on the hostility?

Like I just said, Wookiepedia says it's from the novelization of Revenge of the Sith. The stuff about Obi-Wan thinking she's the most cunning Jedi warrior comes from The Force Unleashed. You can find a list of stuff about her and their sources here. They do talk about her sword skill in more than one place in the novel, I presume.

And honestly I'd put her in the top-6 anyway. She was pretty darn near even with Galen, and we know how we rate Galen next to Anakin around here.

If I had to guess the ones in the top 6, it'd be: (Not in any order)

Mace
Obi-Wan
Shaak
Anakin
Yoda

And maybe Cin Drallig as sixth? It's hard to tell beyond those.

To whom are you referring?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
To whom are you referring?

Just kinda getting that general vibe, it's possible to ask for sources while being polite.

Originally posted by Q99
Can we chill on the hostility?
No one is being hostile.


I have the novel. And wookieepedia is not a source. Yes, Obi-Wan says Shaak Ti is the most cunning warrior he knows, bbut that does not make her a top tier. And I did not see any other place in the novel where her sword skills are praised.


I sure wouldn't. She held her own against Galen, yes, but he was not at full power yet. And she had the help of a Sarlacc.



I agree with all but Shaak Ti and Drallig. Ki-Adi-Mundi, Kit Fisto, Sora Bulq, and Depa Billaba all seem to be greater IMO.

Still, she's praised for grace there, cunning elsewhere... and I don't know any low showings. Between being talked up more and doing well in pretty much every appearance I know, I do get the feeling she's above the likes of Fisto.




And according to the comic depiction, he almost died in the fight, and in any version she did basically let herself die.




I could see one of them instead of Drallig, but I think Shaak Ti's showings are at least as good as theirs.

Wasn't Shaak Ti the one that literally made it a habit of getting her ass kicked by the General every time they encountered each other?

im not sure. i do know both times she fought him she had fought through a small army beforehand and battle fatigued to hell though.

Originally posted by Welt
Wasn't Shaak Ti the one that literally made it a habit of getting her ass kicked by the General every time they encountered each other?
yes...

Originally posted by Q99
One of the best of the time, but I don't think he got an 'in order's history' compliment like she did. Nor do I see him doing nearly as well against Galen.

Personally I see Shaak-Ti as around Obi-Wan level, maybe even a bit higher.

That's utterly ridiculous. She got owned by Grevious over and over. I really don't understand where this impression that she was all that good came from.

how is getting whooped by grievous a low showing? especially considering that every time they fought she was not at 100%...

well, considering Fisto beat grievous, that would put Shaak-Ti below fisto. And Kenobi obviously. Cin Drillig was the battle-master, which means he was the best swordsmen in the order. (according to quote from the SW RPG handbook.)

Shaak Ti losing to Galen, is actually a knock on her, not really a boon.

i still dont understand why though... i mean thats the problem with using that a > b > c type of logic... when obi-wan fought greivous he had the benefit of being fully rested... i dont remember kit fistos circumstances, but i do know that the second time shaak ti fought greivous shed fought a dozen+ magnadroids at once minutes before hand and prior to that had run several miles... im just really not seeing how thw abc logic can be applicable here.

edit- i just rewatched the scene... she didnt destroy them all they stopped fighting after awhile but she destroyed quite a few and there at least twenty and they were attacking her at the same time. also at one point she was fighting them with her hands... very impressive.

yeah dunno. she strikes me as one of the best of the PT in all honesty.

I'm not seeing where the idea of Shaak Ti being one of the best swordsmasters in the era of the PT. SUre she was called "great" but so was nearly every other Jedi Master in the PT. The fact is Shaak Ti has very few showing. Almost all of them seem to be her being defeated by some one.

like who? to my recollection shes been defeated by greivous twice, both times of which had extenuating circumstances behind them, and then to galen who is one of the most powerful raw force users in the entire mythos, and even then he just barely won...

thats a more impressive resume in itself than many people who are held in high regard, fisto maul anoon mundi drallig etc. she at the least has some notable feats in her corner as opposed to some empty quotes and hearsay

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
like who? to my recollection shes been defeated by greivous twice, both times of which had extenuating circumstances behind them, and then to galen who is one of the most powerful raw force users in the entire mythos, and even then he just barely won...
But none of those are that impressive. If your best feat is being not defeated that badly... well its not that impressive. Regardless, Galen was hardly at full power when he battled her.

SUre more impressive than Anoon and perhaps Drallig. But Fisto, Maul, and Mundi all have their own impressive feats. I mean Fisto "beat" Greivous, Mundi managed to hold of Grievous, and Maul defeated Anoon and Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by ares834
But none of those are that impressive.

they arent impressive any more than they are proof of her mediocrity, which was my point. none of the losses shes suffered were low showings.



still powerful enough to easily whip out abilities that put him above pretty much every jedi in the pt except for yoda sideous and maybe mace... so its inconsequential when referring to shaak ti.



qui-gon is a featless wonder, anoon is a featless wonder. defeating either is not an impressive showing,a nd in the end maul did not have the reflexes nescesarry to avoid being chopped in half by a Padawan. hes a clown, a beastly clown with beautiful abs, but a clown none the less. mundi managed to hold off grievous for what 30 seconds longer than shaak ti before he lost? thats not that impressive either, especially when you consider that he was overrun by 5 or 6 clones firing at him while shaak ti managed to fend off 20+ magnagaurds coming at her from all angles, at one point using only her fists... and this was, again, after jumping off a skyscraper, jumping off a moving ship, fighting grievous and mangagaurds while dodging trains... etc.

i know fisto embarrassed greivous. i dont remember the context to that though so i cant comment.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel



still powerful enough to easily whip out abilities that put him above pretty much every jedi in the pt except for yoda sideous and maybe mace... so its inconsequential when referring to shaak ti.

Disagree


and so is Shaak Ti




Fisto has several feats and accolades actually


What you are lacking is any actual evidence that Shaak Ti is elite. You are coming up with arguments why NO ONE is elite, but you aren't giving any actual evidence for Shaak Ti herself.

"elite" is completely relative in itself... something can only be elite when it is compared to others... so trying to prove that shaak ti is "elite" by herself would be an exercise in futility. that is like saying that i am the smartest person in this room even though there is no one in here but me... i cant be the smartest if there is no one around who is more stupid.

Like others have said, losing to Grevious doesn't say a lot considering he came in after she fought a *lot* of tough Magnadroids. It's not a fresh showing.

In the comics, she does well, in TFU she's formidable and lets herself die, her grace is mentioned in the same breath as *Dooku* and Obi-Wan considers her the most cunning Jedi in the order.

But Yoda and Mace consider Kenobi the most cunning Jedi in the order.

Originally posted by truejedi
But Yoda and Mace consider Kenobi the most cunning Jedi in the order.

Which does fit, it's not like Kenobi would count himself, and if she taught him quite a few tricks like he said, he likely surpassed her.

Still, that puts her at second in cunning. If she's second in cunning, second in grace behind Dooku, master of two combat forms, probably the best HtH fighter (though to be fair it's not like we see other Jedi go unarmed very much, let alone against magnaguard), and strong enough in the force to take control of a planet that's rich in both sides, that's a whole lot of stuff she's good at.

Originally posted by Q99
...probably the best HtH fighter (though to be fair it's not like we see other Jedi go unarmed very much, let alone against magnaguard)...

Ok, ok... stop!!! I was with you for awhile there. But where in the blue hell do you get that she's the best "HtH" fighter? I'd wager that Mace is the best "HtH" fighter in the order. I know Ti's a great "HtH" fighter, but the best? Come on now!!!

regurditates on this thraed

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Ok, ok... stop!!! I was with you for awhile there. But where in the blue hell do you get that she's the best "HtH" fighter? I'd wager that Mace is the best "HtH" fighter in the order. I know Ti's a great "HtH" fighter, but the best? Come on now!!!

How about this: The only Jedi of the order at the time who seems to be shown fighting in HtH much, at least that I've seen.

When Obi-Wan and Dooku were disarmed in Clone Wars (CGI one), they... did not impress, getting captured by dudes with blasters they could've handled if they had half a saber between them.


Who else among the skilled force users uses HtH much?

Mace... Jinsoku Takai just said that...

Before Vastor could even focus his eyes, Mace had hit him six times: two thundering hooks to his short ribs, a knee slamming hard into the same thigh he'd hit before, an elbow snapping up to the point of his chin, and two devastating palm strikes to either hinge of his jaw.

An ordinary man would have been unconscious.

...

Then he hit Vastor twice in the nose before the lor pelek could even blink.

Mine's better...

Also in the New Clone Wars TV series we see Mace toss a BD into the ground and parts go flying... It was rather bad ass.

Ah yes, Mace. No shame in being second to Mace

Originally posted by ares834
Mine's better...

Also in the New Clone Wars TV series we see Mace toss a BD into the ground and parts go flying... It was rather bad ass.

Couldn't remember the episode number :P

Now, from the debates in this thread and all evidence (after watching them) from the original Clone Wars cartoon episodes, I can surmise that Shaak Ti (as of the Clone Wars) won't be able to defeat Ki-Adi-Mundi, therefore won't be able to defeat anyone after him (on the original list). Now Im just wondering about all the other Jedi on the list? I think Im also gonna throw one more combatant in there: Quinlan Vos.

what did ki-adi-mundi ever do besides last against grievous 10 seconds longer than she did that would make him > her?

post removed

Well he does have two brains so he's probably really good at multi tasking. Can Shaak Ti really stand up against force pushes coming at her from multiple directions, while having to engage him in saber combat simultaneously? I think not.

"multiple directions"?

ki-adi-mundi is one person... so the force pushes will always come from one direction: wherever he is.

Respond to my request in the other thread pls.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
what did ki-adi-mundi ever do besides last against grievous 10 seconds longer than she did that would make him > her?


Well for one thing, when Grievous kicked Ki-Adi under some metal pylons, he got right back up again eager to carry on fighting, but when Shaak Ti got pushed into some rocks, she knocked herself unconscious.

Shaak Ti also looked like she blocked one of the lightsabers with her hand.

Yea, but she didn't physically touch the Lightsaber with her hands, she just used the force to block it.

Ironically Starkiller later uses the same technique to avoid her skewering his eye. This enables him to kill her.

The more you know. awermm

She loses at Kenobi.

Does anyone think that Shaak Ti could defeat Quinlan Vos?

yes

jyeah

Nah.

Axle
Does anyone think that Shaak Ti could defeat Quinlan Vos?Absolutely.

Indeade

Originally posted by Axle
Does anyone think that Shaak Ti could defeat Quinlan Vos?

No way in hell, you *** bag.

I think Mundi beats her. I can confidently say that he's superior in the force and lasted longer than she did against Grievous.

hes not though.

Yes he is.

right, exactly.

except no.

Eeeerrrm.

Yarp

Does anyone think that Shaak Ti could defeat Sora Bulq?

i think shaak ti could defeat god.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i think shaak ti could defeat god.
. . . . . of course?

i was joking.

shaak ti cant defeat maul.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i was joking.

shaak ti cant defeat maul.

Aren't you clever?

yes.

Mundi>Ti

The cartoon showed this.

no it didnt

Also, Shaak Ti got a lot more experience in the following years. He *may* have been a bit better at the time, but I'd say she's better as-of TFU.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
no it didnt In the battle of Hypori against Grievous she was knocked out of the fight, unconscious. Mundi fought on until the ARC Troopers arrived.

he survived for a whole 20 seconds longer than she did and just as the acrs arrived greivous was about to kill him.

...thats really not that impressive, considering what shaak ti has actually done.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
he survived for a whole 20 seconds longer

She has a remarkable wit to her but he is said to be the wisest council member this side of Yoda. He is decently adept with the Force and is the more capable sword fighter as displayed in your qoute.

What has she done? Enlighten me, please.

Bump:

I've found a new respect for her when she takes on 20 Magnaguards at once starting at 4.25.

Thats pretty bad-ass.

You mean in the same cartoon where Mace takes on an army of super battle droids with his fists?

Everyone was bad-ass in the Clone Wars cartoons. excellent

Why the hell did they change it?

So....much....win....

They are definitly canon though. Nothing changes that. Ahsoka fought 3 or 4 magnaguards by herself too... So not so sure that they are as bada as they were originally made out to be.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bump:

I've found a new respect for her when she takes on 20 Magnaguards at once starting at 4.25.

Thats pretty bad-ass.

i have already stated this like twenty times ermm

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i still dont understand why though... i mean thats the problem with using that a > b > c type of logic... when obi-wan fought greivous he had the benefit of being fully rested... i dont remember kit fistos circumstances, but i do know that the second time shaak ti fought greivous shed fought a dozen+ magnadroids at once minutes before hand and prior to that had run several miles... im just really not seeing how thw abc logic can be applicable here.

edit- i just rewatched the scene... she didnt destroy them all they stopped fighting after awhile but she destroyed quite a few and there at least twenty and they were attacking her at the same time. also at one point she was fighting them with her hands... very impressive.

yeah dunno. she strikes me as one of the best of the PT in all honesty.

131

Pfft, thats only like once.

131

1-4 no problem, 5 if she wins it would be tight, 6 dead, no question, no speculation, shes just dead

It ends at 6, assuming she'll have time to rest. If she doesn't than it ends at Ki-Adi.

She isn't beating Plo Koon

2 should be an even fight. She gets hammered at 6.

She stops at 6

She might even take 6 if she has full rest, she held off ROTS Vader in the novel.

Prime Shaak ti took on and in every manner defeated Galen. A Galen previously described in the same work as being able to deflect blows from Vader that would stomp a Jedi Knight, proving that his Soresu was very very solid from the get go.

Galen 'won' only because his instinctual reflexes used TK to stop her blade (described as singeing his hair and making him sweat) from cutting his skull in half. She basically committed suicide, even he was stunned that he'd survived the ordeal.

Man, look at my girl Poaski layin' it down on these fools ITT.

Get it boo.

Done at 2 imho.

Originally posted by Dionysus
Done at 2 imho.

TCW Shaak Ti makes it past Koon and stops at Bulq or Ki-Adi.

TFU Shaak Ti makes it past all them, but stops at 6(Cin drallig should be taken down with ease imo)

Shaak Ti stops at 6, she'll prove a challange for Anakin, but not one he wouldn't be able to defeat.