Grey Fox (Metal Gear) vs Ghor (Metroid Prime 3)

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Spartan117ftw
Fox finds himself in Elysia...somehow. Later, the armored hunter called Ghor confromts him.

Both at their full abilities. Fox gets his hf blade and plasma cannon. Ghor has his armor and plasma beam. There is fuel gel on the ground of the fight for him to absorb.

Who takes it?

ScreamPaste
Ghor can possess him?

Maester_yoda
You can't posses a already deranged individual. Grey fox took the stomp of Metal gear Rex and can easily dodge bullets and deflect bullets. His sword can cut through almost anything. He used to be null, a machete wielding, no shirt wearing psycho. i give it to Fox

MooCowofJustice
I'm doubting Fox can take the Plasma Beam. If he can, Ghor's armor is pretty tough to. It's funny you posted this thread, because I literally JUST fought Ghor for my second time, like 15 minutes ago.

Ridley_Prime
Originally posted by Maester_yoda
You can't posses a already deranged individual.
But I don't see how that would stop Ghor from infiltrating or manipulating Fox's technology.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
His sword can cut through almost anything.
Ghor has an energy shield, though.

Sin_Volvagia
Ghor is possessing nobody as he never did it to Samus nor is it proven that he has been able to. Besides, if he leaves his power suit, he is dead since he is a poor fighter. With the power suit, he's a worthy opponent. He kills Fox while in Hyper mode.

Maester_yoda
There actually to my knowldege wasn't alot of technology in his suit, like Raiden in MGS4, could be wrong. And yeh unless he outright dodges the plasma beams, their gonna be a prob

The Scenario
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Just so everybody knows.

Maester_yoda
from what i saw in that video, grey fox could easily do. avoid the laser shots and big beam, he has done that against REX. that shield is only in the front, hes got amazing speed, super-human with his suit, he could get around behind and do massive damage. his strength feats are enough in my opinion to do some hefty damage. he can jump just as high or higher than that thing also.

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sorry about the poor quality

MooCowofJustice
Don't use gameplay tactics for how Ghor would fight. They all fight differently in cut scenes anyway.

Maester_yoda
i know but i just didn't see a plethora of skills that would hinder fox

The Scenario
How about the fact that Elysia's atmosphere is dangerous to humans because it's a gas giant? Or the fact that, due to fuel gel, the floor is now lava?

Maester_yoda
wait, so the thread was started with no way Grey Fox could win? if the atmosphere is gas, then how would Fox even be there?

hmm....i sense unfairness

MooCowofJustice
I don't think the threadmaker knew that.

Maester_yoda
ahh, well either way Fox is toast at this point....a blob of goo or something

The Scenario
We can disregard poisonous atmosphere, I guess, but the floor is still highly corrosive fuel gel.

Maester_yoda
ok, well with the floor like it is, Fox is gonna have to move fast and strike quickly. Which is actually how i see it going down. Fox can move fast and has strength. If he could get in close and rip his sword through the hardwiring, then maybe hes got a chance before the floor eats him alive

Sin_Volvagia
Fox would defeat Ghor at normal state but Hyper mode really changes the situation.

A marine in Hyper mode easily takes down the Covenant-like Space Pirates and would give Samus a fight. Samus with Hyper mode easily destroys crowds of Pirates and can destroy their assault crafts without much effort.

Notice Samus had to go into that state to match Ghor in the end. Sure it's gameplay but it's very difficult to defeat Hyper Ghor without going to that mode.

Maester_yoda
Hyper mode = Really fast speed and reaction times?

The Scenario
More like super durability and firepower.

LLLLLink
The question here seems to be; is Fox able to get in close quarters soon enough?

MooCowofJustice
Fox won't want close quarters for long. I'm seriously seeing one hit from Ghor physically taking him out.

Cyner
Fox doesn't have the durability to stand more than one hit of anything that Ghor has really. Metroid tech > Metal Gear tech by far.

Spartan117ftw
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'm doubting Fox can take the Plasma Beam. If he can, Ghor's armor is pretty tough to. It's funny you posted this thread, because I literally JUST fought Ghor for my second time, like 15 minutes ago.
Even on hypermode, he's not that hard. Seriously, rundas was a much bigger challenge.

MooCowofJustice
Ghor tossed Samus' ship, and was actually able to do significant damage to it while it had it's armor up. Remember, naturally ships are designed for atmospheric reentries, and Samus' had its armor up at the time. That's some power.

I think the blades of his armor are super-heated to, but I can't prove this.

Spartan117ftw
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Fox won't want close quarters for long. I'm seriously seeing one hit from Ghor physically taking him out.
This, because he lifted and threw the gunship (which weighed at approximately 135 tons), and even gave it severe damage just from smashing it against the wall.

As for close range, if Ghor jumps and stomps the ground, or spins around while shooting his plasma beam, Fox is pretty much screwed. Close range won't help Fox in this battle.

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by Spartan117ftw
Even on hypermode, he's not that hard. Seriously, rundas was a much bigger challenge.

Rundas pissed me off. Damn that ice flail!

Ridley_Prime
Originally posted by Spartan117ftw
Even on hypermode, he's not that hard. Seriously, rundas was a much bigger challenge.
No he wasn't. I beat him in literally less than a minute on Hyper... in my first try. Ghor at least took a bit of time and effort.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Rundas pissed me off. Damn that ice flail!
He was still awesome though. Shouldn't have died.

The Scenario
I'm sure that everyone is aware that Rundas was voiced by Vegeta(and near everyone else) from Dragonball Z? Doesn't matter, but I like that kind of stuff.

But yeah, Ghor is one tough dude when he's in his armor. Scan data:

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Cyner
Fox doesn't have the durability to stand more than one hit of anything that Ghor has really. Metroid tech > Metal Gear tech by far.

This is truf.

Maester_yoda
Originally posted by Spartan117ftw
This, because he lifted and threw the gunship (which weighed at approximately 135 tons), and even gave it severe damage just from smashing it against the wall.

As for close range, if Ghor jumps and stomps the ground, or spins around while shooting his plasma beam, Fox is pretty much screwed. Close range won't help Fox in this battle.

i hate to sound like the fanboy here, so if i am just tell me, but don't you think someone with the reaction time and speed that Fox has, that he could dodge the stomp and plasma whip thing. it didn't seem very fast to me.

Im talking about fox using said speed and having a sword that can cut through most anything, would rush in before Ghor really has an isea what its going up against and that fox would at least partially damage it to the point of malfunction, then play it safe and dash in and out to attack....

Cyner
Originally posted by Maester_yoda
i hate to sound like the fanboy here, so if i am just tell me, but don't you think someone with the reaction time and speed that Fox has, that he could dodge the stomp and plasma whip thing. it didn't seem very fast to me.

Im talking about fox using said speed and having a sword that can cut through most anything, would rush in before Ghor really has an isea what its going up against and that fox would at least partially damage it to the point of malfunction, then play it safe and dash in and out to attack....

Even with his speed and reactions, Fox doesn't have the durability to sustain a hit from, nor the power to do any damage to Ghor.
Additionally since the cutscenes are rendered in game I don't think the game is able to show you the real speed of Samus and Ghor. For example, Samus has the ability to run faster than the speed of sound, and the reactions to go with it. Maybe in Other M we'll get some real showings of speed/power, until then the Manga is a huge source of feats.

Maester_yoda
what durability feats does Ghor have that rex didn't?

Ghor’s energy shield is capable of repelling all weapon fire, but the back-mounted generator is exposed to attack.

Couldn't in theory Fox harm it this way? enough to slow it down?

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by Maester_yoda
what durability feats does Ghor have that rex didn't?

Ghor’s energy shield is capable of repelling all weapon fire, but the back-mounted generator is exposed to attack.

Couldn't in theory Fox harm it this way? enough to slow it down?

If it's normal mode, Fox can put Ghor down.

In Hyper mode, Ghor is powered by Phazon enhancing his abilities. For one, Phazon is usually poisonous and will affect Gray Fox. Also, his shots will be fired faster and the vibro-blade isn't doing squat against high-powered lasers. I'll even say that Hyper Ghor is capable of destroying a fully-functional Rex. Samus in Hypermode can destroy Pirate assault vehicles with ease.

Fox's cannon and sword will have little effect when Ghor is powered up.

Maester_yoda
i guess tat what im trying to understand. what exactly does hyper mode do. sorry i havent played the game, obviously!, is it kind like super saiyan for Ghor? upgrade in speed , power, and durability?

Cyner
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Samus in Hypermode can destroy Pirate assault vehicles with ease.

She can do that with ease without Hypermode

The Scenario
Hyper Mode is a state in which a creature utilizes phazon to power up. Phazon is one of the most powerful, and dangerous, substances I've ever seen. Sparknotes version: phazon is a highly radioactive substance that can take many forms, including solid, liquid, gas, plasma, and "energy". It is known to be sentient, and merely coming coming close is enough to kill something unprotected. Touching it tends to vaporize things. However, it has a very high energy output, and is sometimes used for fuel. When a weapon is phazon charged, it becomes much more powerful and can cause total atomic disruption.
Another aspect of phazon is its corrupting properties. Exposure to small amounts can lead to "phazon madness" and begin corrupting a creature. It causes increased aggression, mutation, and conversion into more phazon. It also makes things much stronger. Left unchecked, it can corrupt an entire planet, turning it into a living being that attacks other planets.

Ghor basically injects this into his armor systems to power up. Samus does, too, as well as several others, who sometimes gain the ability to do it naturally through their corruption. Ghor was corrupted, however. Remember that scan saying how kind hearted he was? Not anymore. Now he's trying to spread phazon and corrupt or kill as much as possible.

So, when Ghor activates Hyper Mode, his durability and firepower go through the roof, and he gets a little faster. He's probably radioactive, as well. I guess Super Saiyan is an adequate description.

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by Cyner
She can do that with ease without Hypermode

True but it's much shorter work with it. I'd even put her in KOS-MOS's level.

Ridley_Prime
Originally posted by Cyner
For example, Samus has the ability to run faster than the speed of sound, and the reactions to go with it.
I believe that's only when she has the Speed Booster, a powerup that wasn't in any of the Prime games.

Originally posted by Cyner
She can do that with ease without Hypermode
Rundas was able to destroy Pirate assault vehicles on Norion much faster than Samus did though. His ice one-shotted them.

The Scenario
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I believe that's only when she has the Speed Booster, a powerup that wasn't in any of the Prime games.

But she doesn't exactly lose the reaction time needed to move and shoot at supersonic speeds.

Of course, in the Manga she moves that fast ALL THE TIME.

Cyner
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Rundas was able to destroy Pirate assault vehicles on Norion much faster than Samus did though. His ice one-shotted them.

That's cause it's a cutscene, most of the baddies you face in Metroid, Samus would one shot.

The Scenario
Originally posted by Cyner
That's cause it's a cutscene, most of the baddies you face in Metroid, Samus would one shot.

Exactly. You ever notice Samus jumps much higher in cutscenes? Or that the Power Beam, the weakest one, can toss a Pirate a good 20 feet backwards with an uncharged shot? That actually happens to Ghor at one point, as well. In a cutscene of Metroid Prime: Hunters, Samus can jump hundreds of feet in morphball form (compared to maybe 2 feet in game.)

Ghor, in cutscene, managed to break the armor of Samus' ship, which is capable of FTL travel. He also picked it up and threw it. He fought a Berserker Knight in melee and broke its phazite armor. When he wasn't in his armor, a few shots of the Power Beam lifted him off his feet and tossed him pretty well. However, his Plasma Beam severed the Aurora Unit's network, so it's still pretyt powerful.

Ridley_Prime
Originally posted by The Scenario
But she doesn't exactly lose the reaction time needed to move and shoot at supersonic speeds.
I call that a gameplay mechanic.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Of course, in the Manga she moves that fast ALL THE TIME.
As fast as the Speed Booster? Uh, no she doesn't, unless we were reading a different manga.

Originally posted by Cyner
That's cause it's a cutscene, most of the baddies you face in Metroid, Samus would one shot.
It made sense that Rundas one-shotted them though because he froze them in mid-air, causing them to crash.

But yeah, Samus's Power Beam is greatly exaggerated and everything in the cutscenes.

The Scenario
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I call that a gameplay mechanic.


I wouldn't. It's not exactly a neceassary part of the game. Besides, why wouldn't they be?

The Speed Booster is faster than sound. That's a fact. Samus is able to maneuver, as well as aim, while in the Speed Booster. That's another fact. Therefore, Samus can maneuver and aim while moving faster than sound. Her reaction time is faster than sound.



I suppose it depends on how fast you want say outrunning a blaster is.

http://www.onemanga.com/Metroid/3/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Metroid/3/17/

As well as moving faster than one of her partners could see.

http://www.onemanga.com/Metroid/3/18/



How do we know it's exaggerated? It could simply be weaker in gameplay instead of stronger in cutscenes.

It's like the difference between gameplay Dante and cutscene Dante. Which one is more canon?

ScreamPaste
The moving faster than her partner could see looks like it could be for the lulz, but I would agree cutscenes > gameplay.

I don't think he meant exaggerated as in overblown, btw, nor do I think he was denying the cutscene.

Ridley_Prime
Originally posted by The Scenario
I wouldn't. It's not exactly a neceassary part of the game.
Sure it is, in order to get past obstacles that require it.

Originally posted by The Scenario
The Speed Booster is faster than sound. That's a fact.
A fact? Show me where it's mentioned in the games, manuals, or whatever then, because if it's not stated there (which I don't recall it being), then it's all just speculation on your part.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The moving faster than her partner could see looks like it could be for the lulz
Or that her partner was a bit of a slowpoke.

And outrunning a blaster does not equal moving at the speed of sound.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I don't think he meant exaggerated as in overblown, btw, nor do I think he was denying the cutscene.
Yeah, I wasn't.

We still have yet to see Samus with the Speed Booster in an actual cutscene anyway, let alone aiming & shooting while using it in one.

And no, Haloid doesn't count. lol

ScreamPaste
LOL, I had someone use Haloid as evidence in a debate once. I facepalmed so hard I think I left a scar. sad

The Scenario
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime

A fact? Show me where it's mentioned in the games, manuals, or whatever then, because if it's not stated there (which I don't recall it being), then it's all just speculation on your part.


Metroid Fusion manual, as well as the Metroid Zero Mission manual.

http://metroid-database.com/m4/mfmanual.txt

That's a transcribing of Metroid Fusion's manual.


I'm also holding Zero Mission manual right now, and while I can't scan it, it says much the same thing. Page 26 (in mine, at least) if anyone else wants to check.



So, yeah. Speed Booster is confirmed supersonic by at least two sources. Only one of which I could provide evvidence for, but whatever.



Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't.

Maybe not, but Samus moving at least one hundred feet (a distance requiring binoculars to see clearly) before the blaster shots moved two feet (to hit the girl) is fairly impressive.



But now we have a canon statement from two manuals stating that the Speed Booster is supersonic. That should be enough to prove Samus' reaction time.

Ridley_Prime
All right, I guess I'll concede to that point, as I only paid attention to the Super Metroid manual for the most part, which did not state anything about supersonic speed like the MF and ZM manuals did for some reason.

Still, she never moved faster than the speed of sound in the manga. If she did, we would've seen those after-images of herself she leaves behind while running/jumping.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9777/54986331.png

And it doesn't take that kind of movement to outrun a blaster, like I said.

Back on topic though, I guess we can all mostly agree that Ghor pretty much beats the Grey Fox.

menokokoro
unless there is more that ghor is capable of that isn't shown in the game, fox takes this. he is stronger, faster, an expert in battle fields, and can cut through just about anything

Maester_yoda
while i still am not wholly convinced that Fox would lose, i will concede the fact that Ghor in super saiyan mode will be difficult for fox to the point where he would lose

The Scenario
Originally posted by menokokoro
unless there is more that ghor is capable of that isn't shown in the game, fox takes this. he is stronger, faster, an expert in battle fields, and can cut through just about anything

The is no possible way Grey Fox is stronger than Ghor. Faster, sure, but not stronger. Ghor picked up and tossed a 165 ton ship, which he also managed to damage pretty badly. He broke through a Berserker Knight's phazite armor with a punch. Besides, his plasma beam can cut through nearly anything, too.

Fun fact: Ghor's armor also doubles as his starship. This means that it, among other things, can withstand atmospheric reentry and FTL travel. Not to mention the fact that Metroid tech is on a level approaching that of Warhammer 40,000. As I'm sure everyone has seen by now, Ghor takes hits from missiles regularly, and shrugs off most energy weapons easily. I doubt that Grey Fox can damage him severely enough to win before getting hit with a homing missile, plasma beam, or whatever type of blade Ghor wields.

Maester_yoda
fox did hold up a stomp from Rex which was much bigger than Ghor, not to mention the force combined with weight, combined with whatever strength it has. I say Fox is pretty strong

The Scenario
I must've missed that part of the video, then. Still, two more stomps and he was down for good, and the Metal Gear's laser was enough to remove his arm. It would would only take one plasma beam or a few missiles for Ghor to win.

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