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1st fight wonder woman vs power girl

2nd fight wonder woman vs power girl and she hulk

Diana stomps in both.

Wonder Woman 10/10

They sex it up.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Diana stomps in both.



WW is supposed to have a fight with a mind-controlled PG next issue.

Originally posted by KingD19
They sex it up.

That way, we all win, way to go D19.

she hulk and powergirl get a week to get to know eachother and fight crime and use their strength together before fighting diana

Originally posted by chomperx9
she hulk and powergirl get a week to get to know eachother and fight crime and use their strength together before fighting diana

That doesn't really help them.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That doesn't really help them. should make a difference them knowing who they are fighting with incase they come up with a move together that would BFR wonder woman. not saying its gonna be easy

Originally posted by chomperx9
should make a difference them knowing who they are fighting with incase they come up with a move or together that would BFR wonder woman. not saying its gonna be easy

They might be able to come up with some plans, sure, especially if PG preps Shulkie on Diana, but considering Diana is by far the best fighter as well as the most physically formidable, she would still clean their clocks.

WW.

Power Girl might get the odd win, but Diana is without a doubt the more powerful and skilled, and She-Hulk is grounded and therefore can be fought separetely.

Wonder Woman wins 10/10

Originally posted by Harbinger
Diana stomps in both.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


WW is supposed to have a fight with a mind-controlled PG next issue.

PG is not so much mind-controlled, as deceived/influenced, which makes for a big difference in a Forum Fight as well as in the comics.

Don't know why people are thinking WW would stomp PG; they're of comparable strength (both being nearly as strong as Superman, and stronger than Supergirl), speed, and durability vs. blunt attacks. PG has the edge in overall durability, and has a greater range of powers; WW has greater skill/reflexes, and her equipment. Granted, the lasso can make for a one-shot against most all opponents, but as the fight with SM showed, it isn't a given that she can lasso a target who has comparable speed -- also, her lasso may have an adverse affect on PG, as it has on several other people recently, making WW less likely to automatically employ it if she thinks it will be truly detrimental.

WW vs. PG is a general split, with WW having the 6/10 due to her skill/equipment.

She-Hulk (barring PIS/CIS), is a non-factor in this, unless they're all just doing a tug-of-war competition with the lasso; then Jen's strength might be enough to help PG edge over WW.

Are people just hating on Karen, or do they just really underestimate her? Normally around here I find myself having to defend Diana, but in this case, the opposite is true...

1) i say split even 50/50 i prefer WW so i say she takes it.

2) SHe hulk tackles her legs keeping her off balance and lets PG pound on her ftw.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Are people just hating on Karen, or do they just really underestimate her? Normally around here I find myself having to defend Diana, but in this case, the opposite is true...
I thought they'd already fought once, and Diana won without much issue.

she hulks strength is around colossus strength level

and powergirls is about the same as super girls

i dont see how they would lose so easy to diana. one on one diana wins for sure.

I think Power Girl's stronger than Supergirl. Or at the least, she's a lot more experienced a fighter.

Originally posted by tideoftime
PG is not so much mind-controlled, as deceived/influenced, which makes for a big difference in a Forum Fight as well as in the comics.

Don't know why people are thinking WW would stomp PG; they're of comparable strength (both being nearly as strong as Superman, and stronger than Supergirl), speed, and durability vs. blunt attacks. PG has the edge in overall durability, and has a greater range of powers; WW has greater skill/reflexes, and her equipment. Granted, the lasso can make for a one-shot against most all opponents, but as the fight with SM showed, it isn't a given that she can lasso a target who has comparable speed -- also, her lasso may have an adverse affect on PG, as it has on several other people recently, making WW less likely to automatically employ it if she thinks it will be truly detrimental.

WW vs. PG is a general split, with WW having the 6/10 due to her skill/equipment.

She-Hulk (barring PIS/CIS), is a non-factor in this, unless they're all just doing a tug-of-war competition with the lasso; then Jen's strength might be enough to help PG edge over WW.

Are people just hating on Karen, or do they just really underestimate her? Normally around here I find myself having to defend Diana, but in this case, the opposite is true...



1.) WW 6/10
2.) Split as She-Hulk will be a distraction

Originally posted by Enyalus
I thought they'd already fought once, and Diana won without much issue.

A number of people like to cite the JLA Quarterly from around 15 or so years ago (don't have my books here, so I can't remember the Iss#) where Diana, Karen, and the girls had a mission together, and Karen was bucking under everyone else deferring to Diana as the assumed leader in charge. Karen made three attacks (general rough-housing, not in earnest) against Diana, including a tackle/grapple, and in all three Diana's *skill* allowed her to flop Karen on her ass. The problem with referencing that (and later encounters, including the one a couple of years ago in B&B #7) is people take them out of context: In the former, PG was at half (or possibly less) of the power level she had been in comics just a few years earlier, due to her still recovering from having nearly died (in was an ongoing subplot for her at that time that her powers were wonky and her strength wasn't what it used to be -- I recall her hyperbolic statement at the time that she "was nearly as strong as Superman" as her puffing herself -- she wasn't, at that time, but used to be; Diana knew this, but kindly responded "Good -- I hope everyone on the team can carry their own weight" -- or very similar statement).
At that time, also, Diana had just returned from being in space, and having fought a Daxamite named Julia, who really *was* nearer to Supes league -- it took Diana *everything* she had to stand up to Julia, and the only reason WW "won" was because their fighting gave Julia time to think about the situation they were in, and that she (WW) was her ally and trying to help her, so she eventually walked away after a number of panels of fighting, leaving Diana in moderately rough shape. Otherwise, Julia could have killed her, as WW commented herself (Note that this is near Perez' Era WW, and several upgrades ago). Diana didn't have nearly as much difficulty fighting PG (albeit not seriously), because PG wasn't at her normal power at the time.
In the more recent B&B tussle, it showed them as being more or less comparable, with PG (possessed) having the drop on WW who was momentarily weakened by cyanide poisoning. But they seemed more or less equal, in direct physical power.

WW #41 should be interesting, to say the least.

I think its the B&B encounter I remember seeing. But thanks for the explanation, Tide.

Needless to say, Wondy's going to win that matchup in #41. It is her book, afterall.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime


1.) WW 6/10
2.) Split as She-Hulk will be a distraction

Yeah, that works too. While Diana is much more powerful than Jen, the latter can certainly make for a good distraction (or help anchor in a tug o' war), and in that context, it could open the window for Karen. Not a given, as Jen is easily BFR'd by either of these ladies, but a possible distraction, never the less. So I semi-retract my "non-factor" reference.

u guys are making it soudnt like she hulks strength level is about the same as rogues by saying she is just a distraction. she cant fly compared to the other 2 but her strength is around colossus level

Originally posted by chomperx9
u guys are making it soudnt like she hulks strength level is about the same as rogues by saying she is just a distraction. she cant fly compared to the other 2 but her strength is around colossus level
And Power Girl basically supported the island of Manhattan just recently in her solo series....So...

Originally posted by chomperx9
u guys are making it soudnt like she hulks strength level is about the same as rogues by saying she is just a distraction. she cant fly compared to the other 2 but her strength is around colossus level

Shes grounded.

Never make a match with people that are grounded like her.

Everyone should know this.

Originally posted by carver9
Shes grounded.

Never make a match with people that are grounded like her.

Everyone should know this.

Imo Diana takes the majority against Karen in the first scenario. In the scecond scenario, she's able to pull the win 6.5/10

Karen has yet to accomplish the same feats as Wonder Woman. Sure Diana has been around longer, but more recently we've seen Diana take on multiple villains, held her own against Amazo, new power set etc. Karen's best feat thus far from her series is stoped part of Manhattan from falling. Diana on the other hand has move the moon on two occasions and pull the earth from the sun's gravitational pull with the help of the Superman, Green Lantern and the Martian. Moreover, there's the meteor instance. Helping Superman lift the spectre etc..

Originally posted by aztec
Imo Diana takes the majority against Karen in the first scenario. In the scecond scenario, she's able to pull the win 6.5/10

Karen has yet to accomplish the same feats as Wonder Woman. Sure Diana has been around longer, but more recently we've seen Diana take on multiple villains, held her own against Amazo, new power set etc. Karen's best feat thus far from her series is stoped part of Manhattan from falling. Diana on the other hand has move the moon on two occasions and pull the earth from the sun's gravitational pull with the help of the Superman, Green Lantern and the Martian. Moreover, there's the meteor instance. Helping Superman lift the spectre etc..

By way of feats, yeah, Karen doesn't have as many; but conceptually she's in WW's neighborhood, as she has been indicated as having the power of a strong Kryptonian woman, which puts her in the same league as WW or SM (and stronger than Supergirl, who while powerful, just doesn't hit the same plateau's as WW or SM). And much like with the Superman/Captain Marvel debate, PG and WW have for 20 years been indicated as having comparable physical power, with Diana having greater skill/finesse, and Karen having greater durability/range of powers. I am one of the first people to defend WW around here (as a number of people greatly low-ball her), but in this case she really is up against an equal (if still with a different powerset) opponent. And as far a Jen goes -- I have always loved me some She-Hulk, and she is tough, but not on the same level as either PG or WW.

Originally posted by tideoftime
By way of feats, yeah, Karen doesn't have as many; but conceptually she's in WW's neighborhood, as she has been indicated as having the power of a strong Kryptonian woman, which puts her in the same league as WW or SM (and stronger than Supergirl, who while powerful, just doesn't hit the same plateau's as WW or SM). And much like with the Superman/Captain Marvel debate, PG and WW have for 20 years been indicated as having comparable physical power, with Diana having greater skill/finesse, and Karen having greater durability/range of powers. I am one of the first people to defend WW around here (as a number of people greatly low-ball her), but in this case she really is up against an equal (if still with a different powerset) opponent. And as far a Jen goes -- I have always loved me some She-Hulk, and she is tough, but not on the same level as either PG or WW.

I understand what your saying, I consider Pee Gee only second to Diana when it comes to female superheroes (strength). However, given Diana's weapons, training and portrayel in comics. I tend to say that Wonder Woman is Karen superior. Sure, their about equal in strength, but given Diana's background. I would place her a notch or two above her. I'm not taking anything away from Karen, she's obviously the backbone of the Justice Society. However, I tend to say Diana is overall better thanks to her other power set/training etc.

WW

Originally posted by chomperx9
u guys are making it soudnt like she hulks strength level is about the same as rogues by saying she is just a distraction. she cant fly compared to the other 2 but her strength is around colossus level

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know I'm not low-balling Jen's strength...

Let me put this another way...

Would you say either She-Hulk or Colossus are as strong (or nearly as strong) as Superman?

If yes, then you're perception of both is quite a bit off...

If no, then keep in mind that both Wonder Woman and Powergirl *are* nearly as strong as Superman, generally speaking. So saying Jen is out of her league (especially with the speed/skill department factored in) is not that far off.

Originally posted by tideoftime
I can't speak for anyone else, but I know I'm not low-balling Jen's strength...

Let me put this another way...

Would you say either She-Hulk or Colossus are as strong (or nearly as strong) as Superman?

If yes, then you're perception of both is quite a bit off...

If no, then keep in mind that both Wonder Woman and Powergirl *are* nearly as strong as Superman, generally speaking. So saying Jen is out of her league (especially with the speed/skill department factored in) is not that far off. if i put 2 characters at supermans strength level vs wonder woman it would be spite. had to choose some lower level strength characters to make it a challenge for both. would it have made more sense to put gladiator and thor vs diana ? no

i figured with 2 super strength characters who are a little below dianas strength level would give her some trouble if you add PG and jens strength together.

wonder woman

Originally posted by chomperx9
u guys are making it soudnt like she hulks strength level is about the same as rogues by saying she is just a distraction. she cant fly compared to the other 2 but her strength is around colossus level

Um, Colossus' strength level is many tiers below the main characters we are talking about here.

Originally posted by Placidity
Um, Colossus' strength level is many tiers below the main characters we are talking about here. colossus strength level might be below PG and diana but not she hulk. pete and jens strength level is around the same level

Diana against a weaker and less skilled Superman powerset?
uh, Diana. 8/10

She-Hulk is cannon fodder here.

that fight was not bad. not bad at all, imo. karen did very well.

I like how unperturbed Diana was about being punched across country boundies.

"Wait. This isn't... did she just punch me into Canada?" before brushing herself off and rushing back to DC for the next blow. They both show real strength and speed.

Karen did quite good for awhile, but then WW started using her training to make her wiff her blows.

Wonder Woman showed in that fight who the boss is. She was playing it save till the end.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And Power Girl basically supported the island of Manhattan just recently in her solo series....So...
Lets be fair, DC Manhattan is far less developed than the real world Manhattan.

Originally posted by -Pr-
that fight was not bad. not bad at all, imo. karen did very well.

I haven't picked up the comic yet, but I'm hearing that both PG fans and WW fans are happy with the way Gail handled it. Seems like the both come away from it looking pretty good.

I'm excited to read it.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I haven't picked up the comic yet, but I'm hearing that both PG fans and WW fans are happy with the way Gail handled it. Seems like the both come away from it looking pretty good.

I'm excited to read it.
I posted it in her Respect thread

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I haven't picked up the comic yet, but I'm hearing that both PG fans and WW fans are happy with the way Gail handled it. Seems like the both come away from it looking pretty good.

I'm excited to read it.

Karen gets to tie Diana up!


And the winner is obvious, while still leaving the impression they're both powerhouses. Karen gets slammed with a charge all the way from *Canada* and keeps at it.

I just read the issue, and damn, nice showing for Power Girl.

Seems raw power wise in terms of strength/speed Karen has the edge on Diana. Heh, I thought Karen might have gotten jobbed out. It's fine though, I have no problem on Diana relying on her vastly superior skill to win. Makes her more intriguing then other heroes that can fly really fast and punch really hard in my opinion.

WW wins due to superior jobber aura.

Power Girl should trounce her on paper though.

She-Hulk is not a factor due to lack of flight.

The fight was pretty damn good in its own right as well as fair to both parties involved, imo. It goes to show that when PG wants to kick your ass, you better damn watch out as well as show that simply being incredibly fast and strong against Diana is not enough to secure a clear cut victory.

Yea, that was a way better fight than I expected, and a great showing for both parties.

I'm really surprised at the push Power Girl has gotten. Especially in this issue. Wonder Woman herself said, that at the very least Power Girl is her equal in strength and speed. Karen's a legit Class 100 based on this.

Agreed. Her own ongoing is pretty badass at this point, too. I'd recommend checking it out if you're not already.

I kept up with it until the last issue. I simply flipped through that one. Didn't actually read it.

Wondy by a large majority.
Team by a small majority.

btw respect to wondy for that fight.. pretty darn good. good showing too for power girl. new found respect for her too.

which book was this where they fight ?

Originally posted by chomperx9
which book was this where they fight ?
WW #41.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I just read the issue, and damn, nice showing for Power Girl.

Seems raw power wise in terms of strength/speed Karen has the edge on Diana. Heh, I thought Karen might have gotten jobbed out. It's fine though, I have no problem on Diana relying on her vastly superior skill to win. Makes her more intriguing then other heroes that can fly really fast and punch really hard in my opinion.

Karen used skill, though. It was stated.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I posted it in her Respect thread

Thanks for posting it!

wonder woman

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, that was a way better fight than I expected, and a great showing for both parties.

I'm really surprised at the push Power Girl has gotten. Especially in this issue. Wonder Woman herself said, that at the very least Power Girl is her equal in strength and speed. Karen's a legit Class 100 based on this.


Yes, Diana did say that she was "at least" as strong and fast. I walk away from this putting them as equals for the time being. WW didn't use the kind of language to describe PG as she did when she fought Superman - there you got the sense that WW felt that she was fighting someone who was stronger than herself. I didn't get quite the same vibe here, but that is personal interpretation of course.

What's amazing is that they both come away from this fight looking great. There really can't be much doubt that Karen is a class 100 and has the speed to back it up. Dodging the lasso so effortlessly is no laughing matter. WW also does seem to be impressed by Karen as a warrior.

WW walks away showing that she can stand up to the Kryptonians physically. I know some PG fans were bothered by the "She's not Amazon" lines but I loved it. And it's true. I completely agree with you Rage. It makes Diana a more interesting hero in that she's not going to beat you by just hitting you harder. She is a battle hardened warrior and when fighting someone as strong and as fast (or stronger and faster) that alone isn't enough to get a victory on her. It allows her to operate on that tier even if she's just a bit below some of these guys in terms of raw power.

I think WW comes out on top in a fight between the two of them, but she works for it.

Also love that we saw a mini Aegis Effect. And good god PG's breasts are enormous. She also looks quite old. Perhaps it's time for a name change?

I didn't get a sense who was stronger/faster from the fight, just that they were both "very"



On paper, they seem to be quite close in strength and speed.



Power Woman just doesn't sound as good

Originally posted by Q99


Power Woman just doesn't sound as good


Really? I think it has a nice ring to it

Oh and if anyone is interested, here is Gail Simone's response to the "at least as strong as me" comment.

"I don't think Power Girl is stronger or faster than Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman was likely erring on the side of caution."