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This isn't a typical vs. one-on-one thread, but hopefully this will get a clear stance on where the characters stand against each other directly. Essentially, I'd like every one in this thread, whether they believe Thor would win or Superman, to state as specifically as possible what the bare minimum it would take for the character in the minority to beat the character YOU believe takes the majority most of the time.

These can be a specific kind of amp, a specific version of the character, specific scenario, whatever you can think of, so long as it's the bare minimum for the character you think typically loses to win this time around.

Get rid of Superman's magical weakness and bar BFRing, and Superman has a pretty good shot at taking an overwhelming majority.

Their durability and strength I'd call even. Kal has Thor beat in speed and reflexes. Thor has Kal beat in versatility.

Then there's the weakness to magic...

Since I personally think Thor should take Superman 6/10, I think the bare minimum Kal needs to take the majority on Thor would be a flat out, clear cut, defined resistance to magic. Even then, Thor has strength in Superman's tier (can't say how anyone can claim otherwise) so the physical force behind his blows are still immense.

If Thor had Superman's speed he would win 10/10. If he had 70% of his speed then probably 7/10, but 50% of his speed and Thor loses 7/10. So Thor needs about 60% of superman's speed to break even.

This is my opinion as I have not calculated anything on this yet.

Who the hell takes Superman's magical weakness into account in their fights? It would just make things uneven for Clark, even if we try to average out his low showings against magic. And he has some low, low showings. His high ones doesn't make it as bad.

Thor has him beat in versatility, and takes it home all day in terms of power.

Durability and strength, if their is any difference between the two, it would be so small it would not matter. Although I believe Thor has the better damage soak and Clark has him beat in the cosmetology department and initial damage.

Reflexes and combat speed go to Clark, but it's nothing Thor cannot handle. Taking into account Thor's own higher end speed feats, and how rarely Superman uses his speed when he engages beings in his own tier, and Thor should do just fine in this category.

Flight speed? What's Clark's best speed feat in that category? I know some of his best, but I don't know if I am missing/forgetting his complete best.

Thor's best would probably be flying from Asgard to Earth in a few moments. Without Mjolnir to boot.

Anyways, if these two fought, chances are it would be nothing more than a slug fest where they trade blows, lock hands and stalemate etc.

Any character with flight can achieve any speed they want, providing they have sufficient time to accelerate. The question is not what speed a character can achieve but how fast is their acceleration.

In other words, what is the top speed they can achieve in battle distance (3m away) or at what speed can they achieve in the first few nanoseconds?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Who the hell takes Superman's magical weakness into account in their fights? It would just make things uneven for Clark, even if we try to average out his low showings against magic. And he has some low, low showings. His high ones doesn't make it as bad.

Thor has him beat in versatility, and takes it home all day in terms of power.

Durability and strength, if their is any difference between the two, it would be so small it would not matter. Although I believe Thor has the better damage soak and Clark has him beat in the cosmetology department and initial damage.

Reflexes and combat speed go to Clark, but it's nothing Thor cannot handle. Taking into account Thor's own higher end speed feats, and how rarely Superman uses his speed when he engages beings in his own tier, and Thor should do just fine in this category.

Flight speed? What's Clark's best speed feat in that category? I know some of his best, but I don't know if I am missing/forgetting his complete best.

Thor's best would probably be flying from Asgard to Earth in a few moments. Without Mjolnir to boot.

Anyways, if these two fought, chances are it would be nothing more than a slug fest where they trade blows, lock hands and stalemate etc.

NO

Originally posted by no3le1
NO

No what?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Who the hell takes Superman's magical weakness into account in their fights? It would just make things uneven for Clark, even if we try to average out his low showings against magic. And he has some low, low showings. His high ones doesn't make it as bad.

Thor has him beat in versatility, and takes it home all day in terms of power.

Durability and strength, if their is any difference between the two, it would be so small it would not matter. Although I believe Thor has the better damage soak and Clark has him beat in the cosmetology department and initial damage.

Reflexes and combat speed go to Clark, but it's nothing Thor cannot handle. Taking into account Thor's own higher end speed feats, and how rarely Superman uses his speed when he engages beings in his own tier, and Thor should do just fine in this category.

Flight speed? What's Clark's best speed feat in that category? I know some of his best, but I don't know if I am missing/forgetting his complete best.

Thor's best would probably be flying from Asgard to Earth in a few moments. Without Mjolnir to boot.

Anyways, if these two fought, chances are it would be nothing more than a slug fest where they trade blows, lock hands and stalemate etc.

But what needs to happen for Superman to take the slimmest majority over Thor? Or vice versa?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
But what needs to happen for Superman to take the slimmest majority over Thor? Or vice versa?

Slimmest is not fun. If Clark want's a decent majority?

Superman needs to get blood lusted and fight smartly. Use his speed effectively. He needs to lose the magical weakness if that is being taken into account. It would also be helpful to Clark if Thor does not use any omni-directional attacks, force fields and resorts to swinging his hammer like a deranged brute.

I made this post in the other thread, but it was in response to the exact same question as the OP, so I think it warrants the repeat post.

...

If Thor had the generic DC-level speeds, he would decimate most of their top tiers, the thing is he doesn't even though most Thor supporters says he does. The feats required just aren't there to back it up. I've said this before, Thor may have one or two TRUE feats in his entire history to support he can deal with that level of speed, and in my view of comic characters , thats not enough. If people want Thor to qualify as having combat speed/reaction comparable to Superman, then he needs to have consistent feats.

Now this brings me to another side issue of Hulk. Hulk, I think we all agree is a freaking snail. Yet he manages to hit Thor no problem, you could even say they are fighting at the same speeds since they seem to trade blows evenly. Now because I respect Thor, I've always thought Thor losing to Hulk is complete PIS. Even in a slugfest Thor should take him no problem at all. People need to understand Hulk is one of Marvel's most popular characters, and I'm not surprised at all that he beats people he should have no business fighting.

....


So I'm actually killing two birds with one stone here. Here is the choice Thor supporters need to make, either:

1. Thor struggling with Hulk even in a slugfest is complete PIS. In a KMC Comic Vs debate, he would completely dominate him.

Outcomes:

You can contend (even though I completely disagree) that Thor has the speed required to deal with the likes of Superman.

You agree that even in physical stats, Hulk is not in the same league as Superman,Thor etc.

Or

2. Thor struggling with Hulk even in a slugfest is NOT PIS. If you take this stance, you are really confirming Thor does not have the speed required to touch any low-level speedster let alone someone like Superman.

Outcomes:

You cannot contend that Thor has the speed required to deal with the likes of Superman.

You agree that even in physical stats, Hulk has comparable strength with the likes of Thor, Superman etc.



Make the choice people. I'm sick of this double-dipping, saying Thor is in Superman's league, while when supporting Hulk, reference him being able to take on Thor. Which is it?

Supes beats thor on stats (by a little)
Thor beats supes on versatility (by a fair bit)
Supes applies his powers far more effectively which gives him the majority.

If thor used his exotic powers 1/5 fights rather than 1/20+ it'd even out.

Supes: faster, higher durabiliry
Thor: higher damage soak, more skilled, versatility

Take away Mjolnir, give Supes a good skill upgrade plus a "no more Mr.Nice Kryptonian" attitude, then Kal can pull a majority.

I wonder the IQ of you guys. Maybe I'm an oddball. I'm guy who has an above average IQ that like comics. It is clear that if someone can move at least 6ft before you can move 1ft (or 1ft before you can move 2 inches) that you will get hit everytime. There is no defense. Speed is the key and has always been the key.

Superman can beat God provided God had human speed, reflexes, and durability if they engaged after the bell rings.

Also you guys are forgetting that Thor is astonomically weaker without his hammer. He can lose it by getting it knocked away, getting hit and dropping it, throwing it and missing, etc. This is a huge factor too besides speed.

Give Thor superman's speed and he wins 10/10. I would become a huge Thor fan then.

Originally posted by Placidity
I made this post in the other thread, but it was in response to the exact same question as the OP, so I think it warrants the repeat post.

...

If Thor had the generic DC-level speeds, he would decimate most of their top tiers, the thing is he doesn't even though most Thor supporters says he does. The feats required just aren't there to back it up. I've said this before, Thor may have one or two TRUE feats in his entire history to support he can deal with that level of speed, and in my view of comic characters , thats not enough. If people want Thor to qualify as having combat speed/reaction comparable to Superman, then he needs to have consistent feats.

Now this brings me to another side issue of Hulk. Hulk, I think we all agree is a freaking snail. Yet he manages to hit Thor no problem, you could even say they are fighting at the same speeds since they seem to trade blows evenly. Now because I respect Thor, I've always thought Thor losing to Hulk is complete PIS. Even in a slugfest Thor should take him no problem at all. People need to understand Hulk is one of Marvel's most popular characters, and I'm not surprised at all that he beats people he should have no business fighting.

....


So I'm actually killing two birds with one stone here. Here is the choice Thor supporters need to make, either:

1. Thor struggling with Hulk even in a slugfest is complete PIS. In a KMC Comic Vs debate, he would completely dominate him.

Outcomes:

You can contend (even though I completely disagree) that Thor has the speed required to deal with the likes of Superman.

You agree that even in physical stats, Hulk is not in the same league as Superman,Thor etc.

Or

2. Thor struggling with Hulk even in a slugfest is NOT PIS. If you take this stance, you are really confirming Thor does not have the speed required to touch any low-level speedster let alone someone like Superman.

Outcomes:

You cannot contend that Thor has the speed required to deal with the likes of Superman.

You agree that even in physical stats, Hulk has comparable strength with the likes of Thor, Superman etc.



Make the choice people. I'm sick of this double-dipping, saying Thor is in Superman's league, while when supporting Hulk, reference him being able to take on Thor. Which is it?



Did you somehow forget that Superman has struggled in slug fests countless times, without resorting to speed blitzing his opponent, and instead simply slugged it out? Or the time bricks who don't have the ability to fly have gone toe to toe with him and caused him grief?

Even when he faces someone with super speed of their own, does he resort to it, like say Captain Marvel, or Black Adam? From what I've seen, the answer is no. For the big majority at least.

Superman does not speed blitz nearly as much as some people would want him to. The vast majority of the time, he simply slugs it out simply like Thor.

And Thor, CHOOSES to slug it out with the Hulk. He has literally punked him with his speed, moving so fast that the Hulk has no idea where he has gone, when he is pressed.

The Hulk is also a resourceful bastard, and pretty damn fast when he needs to be. Even if Superman fought the Hulk, the result would be the same, a slug fest like the majority of his fights.

And Thor does have numerous speed feats to his name and not one or two. Not even close.

This is a forum fight, but C.I.S. is still in play. That's why we don't go around arguing Soul Absorption, God Blast, etc. for Thor even though full capacity is in play as well. And we still have to take comics into account, and all their battles tells us that Thor chooses to slug it out. And all of Superman's battles point to the fact that he slugs out for the large majority of the your time.

That's of course if I understood C.I.S and the Full Capacity balance properly on these boards.

Seriously.........

Originally posted by h1a8
I wonder the IQ of you guys. Maybe I'm an oddball. I'm guy who has an above average IQ that like comics. It is clear that if someone can move at least 6ft before you can move 1ft (or 1ft before you can move 2 inches) that you will get hit everytime. There is no defense. Speed is the key and has always been the key.

Superman can beat God provided God had human speed, reflexes, and durability if they engaged after the bell rings.

Agree (okay, maybe not the God part).

I've always wondered why people (mostly Marvel supporters) dismiss or trivialize the paramount value of speed. Is it because many Marvel characters lack it, or do they genuinely lack the insight to see how speed is often the key factor to the victory of the speedster?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Did you somehow forget that Superman has struggled in slug fests countless times, without resorting to speed blitzing his opponent, and instead simply slugged it out? Or the time bricks who don't have the ability to fly have gone toe to toe with him and caused him grief?


Its called PIS. Same reason why Flash comics last more than one page. Of course at times they have to do a a little non-superspeed fight. I'm being fair, I'm saying this is the same reason why Thor doesn't kick Hulk's ass right there and then: PIS. The point is, people can either accept Hulk is not in Thor's league or, otherwise, they shouldn't claim that Thor has uber combat reflexes comparable to Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
I wonder the IQ of you guys. Maybe I'm an oddball. I'm guy who has an above average IQ that like comics. It is clear that if someone can move at least 6ft before you can move 1ft (or 1ft before you can move 2 inches) that you will get hit everytime. There is no defense. Speed is the key and has always been the key.

Superman can beat God provided God had human speed, reflexes, and durability if they engaged after the bell rings.

Also you guys are forgetting that Thor is astonomically weaker without his hammer. He can lose it by getting it knocked away, getting hit and dropping it, throwing it and missing, etc. This is a huge factor too besides speed.

Give Thor superman's speed and he wins 10/10. I would become a huge Thor fan then.

Christ....

Again with the astronomically weaker without the hammer? What the heck is wrong with you...I've argued this countless times against you, and you without any evidence keep pushing this nonsense. I guess you don't believe me, but believe Thor as Thor said it best:

".....Thor has not one hammer, merely----but three!"

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/th_ThorvsTheFlame22.jpghttp://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/th_ThorvsTheFlame23.jpg

And just to note, Thor went to utterly destroy that opponent (In three punches.). The same opponent who managed to hold his own against Thor to a near stalemate until he fell into the fires of his land.

Originally posted by Placidity
Its called PIS. Same reason why Flash comics last more than one page. Of course at times they have to do a a little non-superspeed fight. I'm being fair, I'm saying this is the same reason why Thor doesn't kick Hulk's ass right there and then: PIS. The point is, people can either accept Hulk is not in Thor's league or, otherwise, they shouldn't claim that Thor has uber combat reflexes comparable to Superman.

Not it's not P.I.S because it's happened for the vast majority of his entire career. You have a handful of showings of Superman speed blitzing an opponent under rare circumstances like the Imperiex Probe scene or Mongul scene and suddenly, the rest of his career is P.I.S?

That's just stupid to be honest. Superman will slug it out just like Thor would. For more than 90% of the time in my opinion.

I cannot name one time, or even think of one, where Superman immediately speed blitzes or does something even close to that to an opponent from the get go.

Thor slugging it out with the Hulk is NOT P.I.S and will more than likely happen in their next fight because that is what they choose to do. Slug it out.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Did you somehow forget that Superman has struggled in slug fests countless times, without resorting to speed blitzing his opponent, and instead simply slugged it out? Or the time bricks who don't have the ability to fly have gone toe to toe with him and caused him grief?

Even when he faces someone with super speed of their own, does he resort to it, like say Captain Marvel, or Black Adam? From what I've seen, the answer is no. For the big majority at least.

Superman does not speed blitz nearly as much as some people would want him to. The vast majority of the time, he simply slugs it out simply like Thor.

And Thor, CHOOSES to slug it out with the Hulk. He has literally punked him with his speed, moving so fast that the Hulk has no idea where he has gone, when he is pressed.

The Hulk is also a resourceful bastard, and pretty damn fast when he needs to be. Even if Superman fought the Hulk, the result would be the same, a slug fest like the majority of his fights.

And Thor does have numerous speed feats to his name and not one or two. Not even close.

This is a forum fight, but C.I.S. is still in play. That's why we don't go around arguing Soul Absorption, God Blast, etc. for Thor even though full capacity is in play as well. And we still have to take comics into account, and all their battles tells us that Thor chooses to slug it out. And all of Superman's battles point to the fact that he slugs out for the large majority of the your time.

That's of course if I understood C.I.S and the Full Capacity balance properly on these boards.

Seriously.........

NO

If the DC top tiers used their superior-to-their-Marvel-counterparts speed in more than 50% of their battles, I would acknowledge it, and then certainly in most situations the DC top tier would beat the Marvel top tier decisively. But Diana almost never blitzes (she does bullrush some), Superman almost never blitzes (he bullrushes pretty often), Martian Manhunter, Power Girl, Supergirl, etc, all suffer from it. They don't blitz anywhere near half of the time. 33% of the time would be being generous. So, no, it doesn't play a huge factor for me when I'm determining the outcome of a match that has a DC vs. a Marvel character.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not it's not P.I.S because it's happened for the vast majority of his entire career. You have a handful of showings of Superman speed blitzing an opponent under rare circumstances like the Imperiex Probe scene or Mongul scene and suddenly, the rest of his career is P.I.S?

That's just stupid to be honest. Superman will slug it out just like Thor would. For more than 90% of the time in my opinion.

I cannot name one time, or even think of one, where Superman immediately speed blitzes or does something even close to that to an opponent from the get go.

Thor slugging it out with the Hulk is NOT P.I.S and will more than likely happen in their next fight because that is what they choose to do. Slug it out.

It is PIS. It's clearly within his powerset yet if he doesn't use it and there is no explanation for why he doesn't use it, it is considered PIS. Just because it happens alot does not make it not PIS. It is the same reason why Flash doesn't end many situations he could in the blink of an eye. Can you explain why Flash comics last that long (apart from fighting other speedsters)?

Originally posted by Placidity
It is PIS. It's clearly within his powerset yet if he doesn't use it and there is no explanation for why he doesn't use it, it is considered PIS. Just because it happens alot does not make it not PIS. It is the same reason why Flash doesn't end many situations he could in the blink of an eye. Can you explain why Flash comics last that long (apart from fighting other speedsters)?

YES

Originally posted by no3le1
NO

Amazing. You must have been on a pro debate team.

/Sarcasm

Originally posted by no3le1
YES

Yes or no, seem to be the responses you're limited too. I wonder, are you old enough to be on the internet without supervision?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Slimmest is not fun. If Clark want's a decent majority?

Superman needs to get blood lusted and fight smartly. Use his speed effectively. He needs to lose the magical weakness if that is being taken into account. It would also be helpful to Clark if Thor does not use any omni-directional attacks, force fields and resorts to swinging his hammer like a deranged brute. Exactly.

If Superman is at his absolute best, and Thor is at his absolute worst, then Superman can win... only then though.

...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Amazing. You must have been on a pro debate team.

/Sarcasm



Yes or no, seem to be the responses you're limited too. I wonder, are you old enough to be on the internet without supervision?

YES

NO!

Originally posted by Blanket
Exactly.

If Superman is at his absolute best, and Thor is at his absolute worst, then Superman can win... only then though.

...

I would joke and say yup you've got it right. And Thor would need to lose an arm and a leg but just in case you misread my post and are simply being sarcastic in your usual special way....

Re-read my post. This wasn't my reasoning for Superman taking the slimmest majority or the only way he could win. Under these circumstances Superman would take the decent or overwhelming majority.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
NO!



I would joke and say yup you've got it right. And Thor would need to lose an arm and a leg but just in case you misread my post and are simply being sarcastic in your usual special way....

Re-read my post. This wasn't my reasoning for Superman taking the slimmest majority or the only way he could win. Under these circumstances Superman would take the decent or overwhelming majority. I realize. And a decent majority is a bit of an understatement anyway, as Superman would murder him there.

It's just that the fashion in which you made the post, seems to be overkill and seems to highly weaken Thor in an attempt to also build up Thor. IE, Thor needs to be this weak to lose to Superman. 'Decent majority' or not.

Although, I'm curious to see what you think would give Superman the slimmest of a majority after that, as it will save me from typing another paragraph.

Originally posted by Blanket
I realize. And a decent majority is a bit of an understatement anyway, as Superman would murder him there.

It's just that the fashion in which you made the post, seems to be overkill and seems to highly weaken Thor in an attempt to also build up Thor. IE, Thor needs to be this weak to lose to Superman. 'Decent majority' or not.

Although, I'm curious to see what you think would give Superman the slimmest of a majority after that, as it will save me from typing another paragraph.

Well by decent I meant like 9/10.

I was just having fun. I even stated that it would no fun going down the slimmest route so i went overkill....

Hmmm....seeing as how normally they'd slug it out like bricks, I'd say Superman should make an effort to dodge a bit more blows and use at least some of his fighting skills. Assuming Thor doesn't adapt and fight smarter too as it would be a cycle until we have nothing but Godblasts and speed blitzes.

I have to go to bed like now, so we will continue this later.

If Superman utilizes his speed, he pulls enough wins to carry the majority.

That'd be my 'minimum' he'd need to do to put him over the edge.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well by decent I meant like 9/10.

I was just having fun. I even stated that it would no fun going down the slimmest route so i went overkill....

Hmmm....seeing as how normally they'd slug it out like bricks, I'd say Superman should make an effort to dodge a bit more blows and use at least some of his fighting skills. Assuming Thor doesn't adapt and fight smarter too as it would be a cycle until we have nothing but Godblasts and speed blitzes.

I have to go to bed like now, so we will continue this later. k

And I was just having fun as well. No? People think that I'm so stupid that everything has to be explained to me, and thus they start to try debating me on stuff I joke about. Not the first, not the last.

K, so Superman just doesn't get hit as much. Can live with that. At least it saves me from saying the 'fanboy' word.

No, I don't think we will.

Superman 7/10

Originally posted by no3le1
Superman 7/10 Talk about reading a thread, completely new unsuspicious member.

Originally posted by Blanket
Talk about reading a thread, completely new unsuspicious member.

hi i am new here on kmc and i just LOVE thor

Originally posted by no3le1
hi i am new here on kmc and i just LOVE thor Me too.

Let's explore this strange place together. Grab my hand fellow newcomer.

Originally posted by Placidity
Make the choice people. I'm sick of this double-dipping, saying Thor is in Superman's league, while when supporting Hulk, reference him being able to take on Thor. Which is it?
I've seen this lots of times with other characters, often stuff like: Character A defeated Character B as a feat to use it against charcter C in favor for A and then we have a thread where character B faces C and people say hey character B was able to beat character A. Just doesn't work...

Apparently having superspeed means the character is much better with it than the one without.

Thor who is not as fast, strong and doesnt wear a S on his chest like Clark but Thor is still a better character. His stories are better and has better supporting characters. He is also more powerful than Clark. His books are not also filled with PIS...CIS? at times, yes.

For Supes...since when I was a kid....the one and only Superhero was and still is Sups. This shit gets implanted in your brain. Hes the Superhero poster boy. But hes not a better character.

IMO...

I posted this on the respect thread earlier. I'm too sleepy to think.


"I remember an Avengers issue that shows why Thor can deal with super speed. The Avengers were looking for someone that "kidnapped" Herc. All of them couldn't see the person except for Thor. He then says something to himself about they won't believe him bcause no mortal eyes can see etc. etc. He had chased this character into the park and was even questioned by Photon why he was hitting a tree. Apparently she didn't see the person as well. A few pages later revealed it was a speeding Hermes from the Olympian Gods. Thor chases him to Olympus and even catches Hermes by the heels. So yeah, Thor can do "speed". Anyone have that issue by the way? It was like 280 something."

Originally posted by Placidity
Its called PIS. Same reason why Flash comics last more than one page. Of course at times they have to do a a little non-superspeed fight. I'm being fair, I'm saying this is the same reason why Thor doesn't kick Hulk's ass right there and then: PIS. The point is, people can either accept Hulk is not in Thor's league or, otherwise, they shouldn't claim that Thor has uber combat reflexes comparable to Superman.

Show me one time Superman went blitzing crazy on a brick dropping him.

And if so, in that same fight, show me that same brick not landing a lick on him due to his speed.

Originally posted by Blanket
Exactly.

If Superman is at his absolute best, and Thor is at his absolute worst, then Superman can win... only then though.

...

Originally posted by Placidity
It is PIS. It's clearly within his powerset yet if he doesn't use it and there is no explanation for why he doesn't use it, it is considered PIS. Just because it happens alot does not make it not PIS. It is the same reason why Flash doesn't end many situations he could in the blink of an eye. Can you explain why Flash comics last that long (apart from fighting other speedsters)?

How about he just doesnt use his speed in the fashion that you dream of him using it.

There is too much on panel evidence proving that Superman fights on the level of bricks.

The sad thing about it is, we have people like Spiderman and Wolverine blitzing more against bricks than Superman.

It tends to happen it like every encounter they have with bricks.

Not saying that they are faster, what I'm saying is that it is characters out there that we can actually use that argument for (blitzing a brick).

For Thor to beat Superman for a majority he will need a speed boost and maybe a little better durability.

4 miles, give or take a yard.

Thor is clearly more powerful and more versatile than Supes. He's just as strong, better fighter and his damage soak is off the chain.

The only real advantage Supes have over Thor is his speed which isnt enough.

I always gave Thor the majority over people in his class because he is them but with just much more power (besides Surfer).

The only reason I give people like Gladiator/Supes/Captain Marvel/Wonder Woman, a chance against Thor is due to the small speed advantage that they have. Without it, it should be a complete massacre in Thors favor. With it, Thor still gets a decent majority in my opinion. His showings and feats are just amazing.

The people that he fought and defeated and the damage that he has withstood sometimes put him on level exceeding the high herald category.

People disagree and apparently Supes has had upgrades though I don't see how.

But Supes has been slashed by the Demon and pegged to the ground and overwhelmed by low level Vampires....all because they are enchanted and magical.

Mjolnir should have the same benefits including Thor's biology itself.
A strike from the hammer or a punch from him should always have a heavy effect on Clark that would allow Thor to grapple him. Which would put Supes in a pretty bad situation.

Originally posted by the ninjak
People disagree and apparently Supes has had upgrades though I don't see how.

But Supes has been slashed by the Demon and pegged to the ground and overwhelmed by low level Vampires....all because they are enchanted and magical.

Mjolnir should have the same benefits including Thor's biology itself.
A strike from the hammer or a punch from him should always have a heavy effect on Clark that would allow Thor to grapple him. Which would put Supes in a pretty bad situation.


Thats the thing, I'm not even basing my judgement off of the magic weakness, I'm trying to make things fair because if we include that, Thor should be able to smash his face in almost every time.

Originally posted by kgkg
For Thor to beat Superman for a majority he will need a speed boost and maybe a little better durability. No, he doesn't. This is one of the biggest myths on the internet. Thor can hit Superman and can hit him enough to beat him. Comics support this. The only way for me to factor in a majority for Superman is to downplay magical weakness and to put Superman at his absolute best while looking at Thor by his average showings.

Superman is more durable, noticeably stronger and overwhelmingly faster. Thor wins if Superman doesn't use his speed/underestimates him and his vulnerability to magic is played up to a degree that he gets weakened enough for Thor to eventually fall him.

wouldnt any blast with magic in it be a problem for supes?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
wouldnt any blast with magic in it be a problem for supes?

Depends on the writer, Superman tankt powerful magical blasts already. His weakness doesn't exist anymore, it's more an vulnerability.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Depends on the writer, Superman tankt powerful magical blasts already. His weakness doesn't exist anymore, it's more an vulnerability. False.

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy168/thor112/th_03.jpg

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Depends on the writer, Superman tankt powerful magical blasts already. His weakness doesn't exist anymore, it's more an vulnerability.

sigh...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
sigh...

Originally posted by quanchi112
False.

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy168/thor112/th_03.jpg dur Originally posted by Wild Shadow
sigh... dur

Originally posted by quanchi112
False.

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy168/thor112/th_03.jpg

facepalm

Does one instance override his feats where he resisted, tank and showed no weakness to it? That's where the part with...

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Depends on the writer, Superman tankt powerful magical blasts already. His weakness doesn't exist anymore, it's more an vulnerability.

comes in. You should try and think about the thing you read before posting. yesdur

How the hell can you say
1. It does not exist anymore period
2. It does exist but depends on the situation

contradicting yourself in the same paragraph..

And everyone has high an low showings....

But... It's a tie based upon average showings...
If superman sundips or uses his speed out of character he wins
if Thor goes for the god blast rather than fisticuffs off the bat... He wins...

Basically if either uses his entire set while the other doesn't... It's a tie....
Talking about supermans speed s like talking about Thor summoning storms/ godblast or antiforce... He doesn't always go all out either but when he does...

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
facepalm

Does one instance override his feats where he resisted, tank and showed no weakness to it? That's where the part with...



comes in. You should try and think about the thing you read before posting. yesdur

Very true. I think it's a problem in semantics going on here: Superman's *resistance* to magical attacks is usually very low, but he still possesses his super-endurance/recuperative abilities, as such, which is why there are instances of him tanking powerful magical blasts, and surviving magical attacks that might kill lesser targets. Magic with Superman *does not* equal auto-win; it simply makes the win more likely. To put it another way: in video game terms, his "armor/resistance" against magical attacks is very low, so the damage "points" inflicted are higher than might be expected, but he still has a metric ass-ton of "health points". If people looked back over the decades, that analogy bears out true for the most part.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
facepalm

Does one instance override his feats where he resisted, tank and showed no weakness to it? That's where the part with...



comes in. You should try and think about the thing you read before posting. yesdur You said it doesn't exist anymore and I proved you wrong with a very recent comic which cites a long history of magical weakness which still exists today. Yeah rotiart even agrees you even contradict yourself in your own post.

Originally posted by rotiart
How the hell can you say
1. It does not exist anymore period
2. It does exist but depends on the situation

contradicting yourself in the same paragraph..

And everyone has high an low showings....

But... It's a tie based upon average showings...
If superman sundips or uses his speed out of character he wins
if Thor goes for the god blast rather than fisticuffs off the bat... He wins...

Basically if either uses his entire set while the other doesn't... It's a tie....
Talking about supermans speed s like talking about Thor summoning storms/ godblast or antiforce... He doesn't always go all out either but when he does... Do you think Thor isn't fast enough to tag Superman if he uses speed?

Originally posted by h1a8
I wonder the IQ of you guys. Maybe I'm an oddball. I'm guy who has an above average IQ that like comics. It is clear that if someone can move at least 6ft before you can move 1ft (or 1ft before you can move 2 inches) that you will get hit everytime. There is no defense. Speed is the key and has always been the key.

Superman can beat God provided God had human speed, reflexes, and durability if they engaged after the bell rings.

Also you guys are forgetting that Thor is astonomically weaker without his hammer. He can lose it by getting it knocked away, getting hit and dropping it, throwing it and missing, etc. This is a huge factor too besides speed.

Give Thor superman's speed and he wins 10/10. I would become a huge Thor fan then.

This post is hilarious !!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Anyways, if these two fought,

facepalm

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
trade blows, lock hands and stalemate etc.

Lol.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I agree with this post .... He is portrayed consistently as stronger and more durable. Do you think it's enough be a slight advantage or a big one?

Thor is cooler

I honestly don't see how anyone could say the only way Thor has a chance is if Supes underestimates him. Yes, Supes is more durable and is faster; however, some posters are making it seem like Thor would be hitting air if he ever took a swing at Clark.

It'd be like me saying that since Thor's got a few magic tricks up his sleeve, Clark goes down faster than Jenna Jameson. Neither point of view is valid given their respective fairing against beings who can exploit their weaknesses. This is a far more even match than some would like to admit, IMO.

FTR, I'd give Supes the edge overall. Faster, more skilled, and more than strong enough to drop Thor.

Originally posted by Harbinger
I honestly don't see how anyone could say the only way Thor has a chance is if Supes underestimates him. Yes, Supes is more durable and is faster; however, some posters are making it seem like Thor would be hitting air if he ever took a swing at Clark.

It'd be like me saying that since Thor's got a few magic tricks up his sleeve, Clark goes down faster than Jenna Jameson. Neither point of view is valid given their respective fairing against beings who can exploit their weaknesses. This is a far more even match than some would like to admit, IMO.

FTR, I'd give Supes the edge overall. Faster, more skilled, and more than strong enough to drop Thor. More skilled than Thor?

Thor has him in experience and power. Thor is also more than powerful enough to drop him.

Anyone who says Superman is definitively more durable and 'noticeably stronger' hasn't read enough Thor. Their durability is virtually a toss up, with Thor surviving blasts from skyfathers and supernovae and all sorts of other incredibly powerful things. Same deal with Superman (except when up against magic.) And noticeably stronger? Thor's lifted the Midgard Serpent (more than once), generated enough force while arm wrestling to knock the planet out of orbit, stalemated the Hulk in strength for hours, physically overpowered Kurse, has shaken the entire planet with one of his hammer blows and been stated on panel to have the strength to destroy planets with his Mjolnir strikes. No, Superman is not noticeably stronger. At all. Not when he needs assistance from 3-4 other herald levelers to move the Earth and can't slow down Callisto (which weighs 0.018 Earths) even with the help of 15+ other Kryptonians, needing the assistance of to stop the Monitor's 80 mile long space ship, etc.

There's no difference between them in strength or durability, and if there is, it's so minute one way or the other that it makes absolutely zero difference.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Anyone who says Superman is definitively more durable and 'noticeably stronger' hasn't read enough Thor. Their durability is virtually a toss up, with Thor surviving blasts from skyfathers and supernovae and all sorts of other incredibly powerful things. Same deal with Superman (except when up against magic.) And noticeably stronger? Thor's lifted the Midgard Serpent (more than once), generated enough force while arm wrestling to knock the planet out of orbit, stalemated the Hulk in strength for hours, physically overpowered Kurse, has shaken the entire planet with one of his hammer blows and been stated on panel to have the strength to destroy planets with his Mjolnir strikes. No, Superman is not noticeably stronger. At all. Not when he needs assistance from 3-4 other herald levelers to move the Earth and can't slow down Callisto (which weighs 0.018 Earths) even with the help of 15+ other Kryptonians, needing the assistance of to stop the Monitor's 80 mile long space ship, etc.

There's no difference between them in strength or durability, and if there is, it's so minute one way or the other that it makes absolutely zero difference. when has thor survived blast from skyfathers?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
when has thor survived blast from skyfathers?
Seth, Surtur, Odin, the amalgam of the Dark Gods, etc.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
when has thor survived blast from skyfathers? More importantly when has Superman?

Originally posted by quanchi112
More importantly when has Superman?
Darkseid...

But seriously, Superman has survived blasts from skyfathers, too. I wasn't arguing that Thor's durability or strength was superior. Just that they're about even.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Anyone who says Superman is definitively more durable and 'noticeably stronger' hasn't read enough Thor. Their durability is virtually a toss up, with Thor surviving blasts from skyfathers and supernovae and all sorts of other incredibly powerful things. Same deal with Superman (except when up against magic.) And noticeably stronger? Thor's lifted the Midgard Serpent (more than once), generated enough force while arm wrestling to knock the planet out of orbit, stalemated the Hulk in strength for hours, physically overpowered Kurse, has shaken the entire planet with one of his hammer blows and been stated on panel to have the strength to destroy planets with his Mjolnir strikes. No, Superman is not noticeably stronger. At all. Not when he needs assistance from 3-4 other herald levelers to move the Earth and can't slow down Callisto (which weighs 0.018 Earths) even with the help of 15+ other Kryptonians, needing the assistance of to stop the Monitor's 80 mile long space ship, etc.

There's no difference between them in strength or durability, and if there is, it's so minute one way or the other that it makes absolutely zero difference.

QFT

Originally posted by Enyalus
Darkseid...

But seriously, Superman has survived blasts from skyfathers, too. I wasn't arguing that Thor's durability or strength was superior. Just that they're about even. Whenever I hear the beings Superman has tanked attacks from it's never quite as impressive as the characters Thor has. That's my point. People who claim Darkseid is skyfather is basically the kinds of answers I expect.

Originally posted by quanchi112
More skilled than Thor?

Thor has him in experience and power. Thor is also more than powerful enough to drop him.

More skilled, as in MA abilities. Superman knows and displays several martial art skills from Kryptonian MA to orienatl martial arts. Also he outright uses his brain way more than Thor in fights or owtherwise.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Whenever I hear the beings Superman has tanked attacks from it's never quite as impressive as the characters Thor has. That's my point. People who claim Darkseid is skyfather is basically the kinds of answers I expect.

Pfft! Darkseid's accomplishments pretty much put him over anyone you can mention in Thor's tank blast column.

Hell Supes has guys like Dominus (above skyfather) in his win column. The seven elder gods (put down the JLA), Asmodius, Blaze and Satanus, Braniac 13, Mageddon (above skyfather). Get real.

Originally posted by h1a8
Also you guys are forgetting that Thor is astonomically weaker without his hammer. He can lose it by getting it knocked away, getting hit and dropping it, throwing it and missing, etc. This is a huge factor too besides speed.



Thor is not weaker without his hammer where did u get that from? Oh yeah and it will just return to him.

Originally posted by Allankles
Pfft! Darkseid's accomplishments pretty much put him over anyone you can mention in Thor's tank blast column.

Hell Supes has guys like Dominus (above skyfather) in his win column. The seven elder gods (put down the JLA), Asmodius, Blaze and Satanus, Braniac 13, Mageddon (above skyfather). Get real.

chair

Originally posted by Allankles
Pfft! Darkseid's accomplishments pretty much put him over anyone you can mention in Thor's tank blast column.

Hell Supes has guys like Dominus (above skyfather) in his win column. The seven elder gods (put down the JLA), Asmodius, Blaze and Satanus, Braniac 13, Mageddon (above skyfather). Get real.

Superman also stalemates E2 Supes who threw a moon around like he was playing a game of dodge ball, and smashed asteroids together knocking the Anti Monitor back million miles.

With the exception of sheer speed, I can't see how anyone can claim Superman is Thor's vast superior or even noticeably more stronger. I don't even see how speed is Thor's downfall here considering:

A.) Thor has multiple refex showings (such as moving too fast for HEIMDALL to follow) to support him not being helpless against a foe with super speed.

B.) Thor has insane area of effect/splash damage attacks as well as omnidirectional methods of attacking.

C.) Superman doesn't use his speed very often in the manner that some posters would have others believe (which is CIS, not PIS).

Conversely, no one objective would believe that Thor just Godblasts Superman to hell or drain his lifeforce or (if you use Classic Thor) timefreezes. You can't use seldom or end-of-the-line techniques/abilities characters use and claim it's a sure thing that they would use them to support your case, yet deny someone of the opposite view the same.

The thing is Supes speed is not an end of the line ability, I mean he uses his speed for so many things, combat aside.

While life draining or timefreezing is as end of the line as T-vo or force vision or whatever imo.

Didn't Johns or DD say that they were discontinuing T-vo as a Superman ability?

I heard something to that effect but I don't know which party from DC mentioned it. But my point was simply that speed is pretty common for Supes whether he's owning a group of bad guys or just saving people from a disaster.

While stuff like timefreezing is probably as out there for Thor as Torquasm Rao and the other Kryptonian disciplines under that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
With the exception of sheer speed, I can't see how anyone can claim Superman is Thor's vast superior or even noticeably more stronger. I don't even see how speed is Thor's downfall here considering:

A.) Thor has multiple refex showings (such as moving too fast for HEIMDALL to follow) to support him not being helpless against a foe with super speed.

B.) Thor has insane area of effect/splash damage attacks as well as omnidirectional methods of attacking.

C.) Superman doesn't use his speed very often in the manner that some posters would have others believe (which is CIS, not PIS).

Conversely, no one objective would believe that Thor just Godblasts Superman to hell or drain his lifeforce or (if you use Classic Thor) timefreezes. You can't use seldom or end-of-the-line techniques/abilities characters use and claim it's a sure thing that they would use them to support your case, yet deny someone of the opposite view the same. Exactly. I always thought it was funny to see the same Superman supporters shouting his speed wins to ignoring Thor's godblast, antiforce blasts, or solar draining powers completely.

Originally posted by Allankles
More skilled, as in MA abilities. Superman knows and displays several martial art skills from Kryptonian MA to orienatl martial arts. Also he outright uses his brain way more than Thor in fights or owtherwise. That isn't more skilled in general. He didn't say more skilled in martial arts anyways.
Originally posted by Allankles
Pfft! Darkseid's accomplishments pretty much put him over anyone you can mention in Thor's tank blast column.

Hell Supes has guys like Dominus (above skyfather) in his win column. The seven elder gods (put down the JLA), Asmodius, Blaze and Satanus, Braniac 13, Mageddon (above skyfather). Get real. Dominus used Superman and needed him. Dominus could have killed him multiple times in the story. Mageddon? What? Blaze the same chick who was next to nothing against Neron in his own realm?

Thor's defeat Meph in his own realm by the way. Yeah, I still don't see anywhere on here near Odin level at all.Originally posted by Enyalus
Didn't Johns or DD say that they were discontinuing T-vo as a Superman ability? I have heard this.

T-vo shouldn't even be brought to the table, tbh. It's about as plot device of a power as some of early Mjolnir's powers, which at peak levels, was basically a plot device-ish weapon.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You said it doesn't exist anymore and I proved you wrong with a very recent comic which cites a long history of magical weakness which still exists today. Yeah rotiart even agrees you even contradict yourself in your own post.

Do you think Thor isn't fast enough to tag Superman if he uses speed?

The contradiction in my post was a reflection of the contradiction the writers provide us with, now think about this again.
Yeah tideoftime agrees with me, rotiart doesn't or partially that proves exactly what? dur except that their opinions are more valuable then yours?

How many monthly comics are there starring Superman? Though then again, DC has an reputation, they never contradict themselves and never did.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Though then again, DC has an reputation, they never contradict themselves and never did.


I love your sarcasm.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The contradiction in my post was a reflection of the contradiction the writers provide us with, now think about this again.
Yeah tideoftime agrees with me, rotiart doesn't or partially that proves exactly what? dur except that their opinions are more valuable then yours?

How many monthly comics are there starring Superman? Though then again, DC has an reputation, they never contradict themselves and never did.

You said there is no magic weakness anymore and then said it depends on the writer. Which is it?


I gave you a recent example. I say it depends on the writer to the varying degrees it has on Superman but when has a writer stated it has no effect on Superman?

^ Even then, I really can't see how Superman's speed, the way he generally uses it, is such an advantage against someone with Thor's reflexes and ability to lay down a wide arc of fire/area of effect blast.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yeah, I still don't see anywhere on here near Odin level at all.

I just mentioned a list of guys above skyfather, and Odin level translates to skyfather. Dominus and Mageddon both of them are abstracts, above skyfathers. Mageddon was an abstract sentient weapon made by the old gods, and Dominus was transformed into an abstract.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
^ Even then, I really can't see how Superman's speed, the way he generally uses it, is such an advantage against someone with Thor's reflexes and ability to lay down a wide arc of fire/area of effect blast.


Honestly, and this is me being honest, I'm not impressed by Thor speed feats even though he has them.

Superman have them also but he doesnt use them in the fashion people on the forum say that he does. With that said, THATS the reason I give Thor a CLEAR majority over Superman because yes, Superman does have the edge in speed BUT the way he uses it, Thor would still land some licks and some hard licks if you ask me.

I also think Superman is a hard hitter but Thor hammer shots is just so much more and again, I'm not even including Thors Versatility and power.

I'm also basing this off of the people that dropped Supes, and how easily they dropped him. Examples, Titus, Kalibak, Despero, and Konvikt (I could name more) where as we have thor fighting Kurse, Mangog, Super strong beings that is Celestial bred (when thor was inside of the Celestial and the Celestial created a being with unlimted strength etc....) and Thor kept fighting, even during sneak attacks.

Thor to me is just much more powerful and packs a stronger hit and the amount of blunt force that he can take is off the scales.

Originally posted by Allankles
I just mentioned a list of guys above skyfather, and Odin level translates to skyfather. Dominus and Mageddon both of them are abstracts, above skyfathers. Mageddon was an abstract sentient weapon made by the old gods, and Dominus was transformed into an abstract.

When did Superman fight Mageddon? Post the scan (unless you are referring to the blast he took).

Yes. Follow the thread.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Christ....

Again with the astronomically weaker without the hammer? What the heck is wrong with you...I've argued this countless times against you, and you without any evidence keep pushing this nonsense. I guess you don't believe me, but believe Thor as Thor said it best:

".....Thor has not one hammer, merely----but three!"

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/th_ThorvsTheFlame22.jpghttp://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/th_ThorvsTheFlame23.jpg

And just to note, Thor went to utterly destroy that opponent (In three punches.). The same opponent who managed to hold his own against Thor to a near stalemate until he fell into the fires of his land.

I didn't mean physically weaker but just weaker in general. He can't fly, emit his more powerful blasts, bfr, transmute, dimensional travel, etc. without his hammer. He is just a brick (a good one though) without it.

without his hammer he can still fly superman pose flight.

he also has thunder and lightning in his fist that shoot out or are released upon impact... he also can bear hug and release an incinerated god energy blast

Originally posted by Blanket
Exactly.

If Superman is at his absolute best, and Thor is at his absolute worst, then Superman can win... only then though.

...

Such a bias and nonsensical response. Don't worry you are not the number 1 bias member here. But you are close.

If Superman moves 5ft before Thor can move 2in then how can Thor defend? Speed kills Thor. Thor can fight at his best and still not get a chance to attack.

Give Thor at least 70% of Superman's speed and he win then win a majority.

Originally posted by h1a8
Such a bias and nonsensical response. Don't worry you are not the number 1 bias member here. But you are close.

If Superman moves 5ft before Thor can move 2in then how can Thor defend? Speed kills Thor. Thor can fight at his best and still not get a chance to attack.

Give Thor at least 70% of Superman's speed and he win then win a majority. Yesterday you said your IQ was above average. Today you can't even follow a simple post, or read sarcasm.

It makes me wonder if your IQ is above average like previously mentioned. Wait, it's not. You're completely and mindlessly crazy.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
without his hammer he can still fly superman pose flight.

he also has thunder and lightning in his fist that shoot out or are released upon impact... he also can bear hug and release an incinerated god energy blast

Thor can't fly without his hammer. The lightning coming out of his fist is rare and might not count as it happened only once. Also the lightning summoned from Mjolnir is astronomically more powerful. As is the blasts that Thor can emit vs. the bear hug blast.

So the myth Thor is helpless without his hammer rears its head again, eh?

Thor's power is innate. It's his divinity and godhood that fuels most, if not all, of his exotic powers. His previous volume, specificially the Ragnarok arc, shows that Thor is more than capable of holding his own without Mjolnir.

And lol at Blanket being one of the more biased members here.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor can't fly without his hammer. The lightning coming out of his fist is rare and might not count as it happened only once. Also the lightning summoned from Mjolnir is astronomically more powerful. As is the blasts that Thor can emit vs. the bear hug blast.

Thor doesnt have powers without his hammer huh?

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorLightning01JIM093.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorOmniblast01AvengersAnnual07.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorGodblast01v282.jpg

Learn about the characters before debating against them.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
^ Even then, I really can't see how Superman's speed, the way he generally uses it, is such an advantage against someone with Thor's reflexes and ability to lay down a wide arc of fire/area of effect blast. Reflexes and speed are two different things. One can have infinite reflexes and not be able to defend. For example if I can move 10ft before you can move 1in then how can you ever defend?

Superman will pop Thor before Thor can twitch a muscle, even if Thor sees it coming a mile away.

Originally posted by h1a8
Reflexes and speed are two different things. One can have infinite reflexes and not be able to defend. For example if I can move 10ft before you can move 1in then how can you ever defend?

Superman will pop Thor before Thor can twitch a muscle, even if Thor sees it coming a mile away.

Somebody help him.

Why does H1 have to post his speed garbled nonsense in a thread to even out the characters?

It's like the kid can't help but post opinions on powers that he made up.

Originally posted by h1a8
Reflexes and speed are two different things. One can have infinite reflexes and not be able to defend. For example if I can move 10ft before you can move 1in then how can you ever defend?

Superman will pop Thor before Thor can twitch a muscle, even if Thor sees it coming a mile away.

Cool, except that Thor does have super speed as well as the reflexes to use them. Superman being faster doesn't equal auto-win for him, just as magic doesn't translate over for Thor winning automatically.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor doesnt have powers without his hammer huh?

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorLightning01JIM093.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorOmniblast01AvengersAnnual07.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorGodblast01v282.jpg

Learn about the characters before debating against them.

The first scan is invalid. The second scan seems as if Thor is holding the hammer. The third scan shows the hammer is still with him, and it seems that is Thor with the OF.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor can't fly without his hammer. The lightning coming out of his fist is rare and might not count as it happened only once. Also the lightning summoned from Mjolnir is astronomically more powerful. As is the blasts that Thor can emit vs. the bear hug blast.

1st thor has bn shown more then once to fly without his hammer as well as hover levitate and cross dimensions..

2nd he has also bn shown more then once to manipulate lightning and thunder. he had bn in a rage while fighting and each blow released thunder and lightning impact blast magnifying his blows... thor even said it himself his power is within him... the 1st time shown thor shot lightning from his hands as well...

during the fight with Hercules Thor without his hammer still had control over the weather and blasted them both.....

during his return after civil war Thor caused world wide weather manipulation while speaking to Ironman... he did not order or slammed his weapon but merely voiced his command over the weather..

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Cool, except that Thor does have super speed as well as the reflexes to use them. Superman being faster doesn't equal auto-win for him, just as magic doesn't translate over for Thor winning automatically.

He only has super speed relative to ordinary humans. He doesn't have any super speed relative to Superman. Superman can punch him before he can raise his hand to defend. If not, then that would mean Thor is just as fast as Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
The first scan is invalid. The second scan seems as if Thor is holding the hammer. The third scan shows the hammer is still with him, and it seems that is Thor with the OF.

All of those scans is without the hammer and in the third one, Thor even tells us that he didnt need the hammer.

You are always taking away from scans. You need to stop doing that.

Originally posted by h1a8
He only has super speed relative to ordinary humans. He doesn't have any super speed relative to Superman. Superman can punch him before he can raise his hand to defend. If not, then that would mean Thor is just as fast as Superman.


Now do all of us a favor, show us Superman doing the things that you mentioned he can do.

Originally posted by h1a8
The first scan is invalid. The second scan seems as if Thor is holding the hammer. The third scan shows the hammer is still with him, and it seems that is Thor with the OF.

WTF?

The first scan is valid. Thor is the God of Thunder, so him making like Emperor Palpatine is not a stretch. That's not even near the top five of his obscure ass powers back in the day.

Second scan, even if Thor had the hammer with him (not a stretch as it more often than not is) the blast is radiating from Thor's body, not from Mjolnir. Even his speech, "For I am Thor, the God of Thunder and Lightning!" is evident he's using his godly powers instead of Mjolnir's directional blasts or weather control.

Third scan, he sure as hell doesn't have the OF. And Mjolnir was shattered basically beyond repair several issues earlier thanks to Loki's boot leg versions colliding with the real deal all at once.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
1st thor has bn shown more then once to fly without his hammer as well as hover levitate and cross dimensions..
I don't believe it. I think I saw the levitating one, but that's not flying.

2nd he has also bn shown more then once to manipulate lightning and thunder. he had bn in a rage while fighting and each blow released thunder and lightning impact blast magnifying his blows... thor even said it himself his power is within him... the 1st time shown thor shot lightning from his hands as well... I don't believe Thor can do it. Only once have a saw him do it and the comic is too old for it to be considered valid. Even so, my point is that he is astronomically stronger with the hammer. So these arguments are moot.

Possession of the hammer is all it takes, or the fact that Thor had the OF.

Originally posted by h1a8
Possession of the hammer is all it takes, or the fact that Thor had the OF.

What the hell?

Thor has to use Mjolnir, to y'know, USE Mjolnir. It simply being on his person doesn't give him any bonuses or advantages, aside from Classic Thor not turning into Donald Blake.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't believe it. I think I saw the levitating one, but that's not flying.

2nd he has also bn shown more then once to manipulate lightning and thunder. he had bn in a rage while fighting and each blow released thunder and lightning impact blast magnifying his blows... thor even said it himself his power is within him... the 1st time shown thor shot lightning from his hands as well... I don't believe Thor can do it. Only once have a saw him do it and the comic is too old for it to be considered valid. Even so, my point is that he is astronomically stronger with the hammer. So these arguments are moot.

Possession of the hammer is all it takes, or the fact that Thor had the OF.

From now on I'm going to tell you "I dont believe it".

The only thing Mjolnir gives Thor is atk power, flight, and super friction.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
WTF?

The first scan is valid. Thor is the God of Thunder, so him making like Emperor Palpatine is not a stretch. That's not even near the top five of his obscure ass powers back in the day.

Second scan, even if Thor had the hammer with him (not a stretch as it more often than not is) the blast is radiating from Thor's body, not from Mjolnir. Even his speech, "For I am Thor, the God of Thunder and Lightning!" is evident he's using his godly powers instead of Mjolnir's directional blasts or weather control. Without the hammer he couldn't do that. Doesn't matter where the lightning is coming from.


Why doesn't he have the OF? He was lord of Asgard.

hmm... not only are you wrong but you ignore and dismiss his feats and even claim it doesnt matter even if he can do it.

do us all a favor and try to at least have some credibility and debate and argue logically

Originally posted by h1a8
The first scan is invalid. The second scan seems as if Thor is holding the hammer. The third scan shows the hammer is still with him, and it seems that is Thor with the OF. First scan is invalid because Thor is shooting lightning out of his hands? It's obvious I don't understand why it's invalid.

Second scan must have Thor holding the hammer because it's cropped!
Actually, this might have some merit if this is from the same place that "Thor beat Thanos *Take out two scans*" is from. Although I doubt you're right.

Third scan... well, if you had even read a bio on Ragnarok, you would know how much you know nothing about it. The hammer was smashed. Uh ya. And Odin power? This just shows that you make shit up on the spot.
Also, it was on his waist anyway...

Originally posted by h1a8
Without the hammer he couldn't do that. Doesn't matter where the lightning is coming from.


Why doesn't he have the OF? He was lord of Asgard.

So basically you are saying, no matter how many scans we put up proving our point, you still wont believe it.

I never did this before, this will be the first time but I'm reporting you.

Originally posted by Spire
The only thing Mjolnir gives Thor is atk power, flight, and super friction.
It also gives him
Dimensional travel, transmutation ability, God blast ability, super powerful lightning attacks, ability to block and absorb energy attacks, anti-force blasts, etc.

Originally posted by h1a8
It also gives him
Dimensional travel, transmutation ability, God blast ability, super powerful lightning attacks, ability to block and absorb energy attacks, anti-force blasts, etc.

No it doesnt. Thor channell his godly power THROUGH the hammer.

You have 10 people in here telling you the same exact thing.

Originally posted by carver9
So basically you are saying, no matter how many scans we put up proving our point, you still wont believe it.

I never did this before, this will be the first time but I'm reporting you.

You didn't prove your point. The scans showed Thor with the hammer except the first one. The first one is invalid as it is too old.

Also I said, it takes more than one instance to prove something. You only showed one instance where Thor doesn't have the hammer shooting lightning.

Lastly, my initial claim was that Thor can't fly without the hammer.

I can possess a magical ring which makes me emit lightning from my body. That doesn't mean I can do it without the ring.

Originally posted by carver9
No it doesnt. Thor channell his godly power THROUGH the hammer.

You have 10 people in here telling you the same exact thing.

I know this but without the hammer he cannot emit the Godblast.

Originally posted by h1a8
Without the hammer he couldn't do that. Doesn't matter where the lightning is coming from.


Why doesn't he have the OF? He was lord of Asgard.

It's obvious from these questions you haven't read much Thor, and I'm being pretty nice about it.

Mjolnir, despite its awesome power, is just a tool. Thor and Odin alike say as much. It gives him a greater degree of focus and fine control over the weather WHEN it's actively being used, but no where in his decades of established history has it been stated or alluded to that "Thor must have Mjolnir on his person in order to use his powers as a God of Thunder". Since you're the only who believes as much and flat out deny on panel proof given to you, the burden of proof is on you to find a scan or even anything close to what you're suggesting.

And he doesn't have the OF at that time because he lost his connection to it due to the Reigning Storyline. He regains it along with Rune Magic toward the end of the Ragnarok arc.

Originally posted by h1a8
Without the hammer he couldn't do that. Doesn't matter where the lightning is coming from.


Why doesn't he have the OF? He was lord of Asgard. "Don't mind me, I'm just trolling by"

Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't prove your point. The scans showed Thor with the hammer except the first one. The first one is invalid as it is too old.

Also I said, it takes more than one instance to prove something. You only showed one instance where Thor doesn't have the hammer shooting lightning.

Lastly, my initial claim was that Thor can't fly without the hammer.

The 1st scan is valid, this isnt Precrisis Thor.

The second scan, you have lightning coming from his body. It cant get any plain and simple as that.

The third scan, his hammer was broken. Read the story. Also read the narriation in the scan. The power comes from him.

Originally posted by carver9
So basically you are saying, no matter how many scans we put up proving our point, you still wont believe it.

I never did this before, this will be the first time but I'm reporting you.

i bn tired of him for a long while i just dont know how to report him and under what rule...

Originally posted by carver9
The 1st scan is valid, this is Precrisis Thor.

Originally posted by carver9
The 1st scan is valid, this isnt Precrisis Thor.

That made me laugh. Pre-Crisis Thor is pretty badass.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's obvious from these questions you haven't read much Thor, and I'm being pretty nice about it.

Mjolnir, despite its awesome power, is just a tool. Thor and Odin alike say as much. It gives him a greater degree of focus and fine control over the weather WHEN it's actively being used, but no where in his decades of established history has it been stated or alluded to that "Thor must have Mjolnir on his person in order to use his powers as a God of Thunder". Since you're the only who believes as much and flat out deny on panel proof given to you, the burden of proof is on you to find a scan or even anything close to what you're suggesting.

And he doesn't have the OF at that time because he lost his connection to it due to the Reigning Storyline. He regains it along with Rune Magic toward the end of the Ragnarok arc.

No one showed Thor controlling the weather without Mjolnir. Am I supposed to believe that regardless? Someone showed Thor emitting lightning from his fists (a 60's comic) and that's it. Other showings had him with his hammer. How am I wrong?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i bn tired of him for a long while i just dont know how to report him and under what rule...

He's clearly trolling and I just learned what that mean.

Its a tab on the right in his post that say "report to moderator".

Originally posted by h1a8
No one showed Thor controlling the weather without Mjolnir. Am I supposed to believe that regardless? Someone showed Thor emitting lightning from his fists (a 60's comic) and that's it. Other showings had him with his hammer. How am I wrong? H1, can you stop posting in the good threads?

Originally posted by carver9
The 1st scan is valid, this isnt Precrisis Thor.

The second scan, you have lightning coming from his body. It cant get any plain and simple as that.

The third scan, his hammer was broken. Read the story. Also read the narriation in the scan. The power comes from him.

Again, I can have a ring that makes lightning come from my body. But that doesn't mean lightning can come from my body without the ring.

The hammer wasn't broken (at least the writer didn't draw it broken). But I'm not doubting the feat, just the fact that Thor had the OF.

Originally posted by h1a8
No one showed Thor controlling the weather without Mjolnir. Am I supposed to believe that regardless? Someone showed Thor emitting lightning from his fists (a 60's comic) and that's it. Other showings had him with his hammer. How am I wrong?

That is a weak argument coming from you, h1, and I think you know as much.

Thor is a God of Asgard. He's the God of Thunder and its his status as such that enables him to control the weather and the like. Mjolnir is his tool/weapon, that when actively used (ie. not just hanging at his side) gives him far greater control over said power. But the power is still his.

That's how you are wrong.

Originally posted by Blanket
H1, can you stop posting in the good threads?

Ok, Thor can control weather and such without his hammer.

But without more speed he loses everytime to Superman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That is a weak argument coming from you, h1, and I think you know as much.

Thor is a God of Asgard. He's the God of Thunder and its his status as such that enables him to control the weather and the like. Mjolnir is his tool/weapon, that when actively used (ie. not just hanging at his side) gives him far greater control over said power. But the power is still his.

That's how you are wrong.

I've never seen Thor use weather control without his hammer (except once emitting lightning from his hands). Maybe you are right, but it certainly borders speculation. With that said, Thor's most powerful blasts come only from using his hammer. If Thor can emit a lightning bolt from his hands then he can summon one many many times stronger using his hammer.

Originally posted by h1a8
I've never seen Thor use weather control without his hammer (except once emitting lightning from his hands). Maybe you are right, but it certainly borders speculation. With that said, Thor's most powerful blasts come only from using his hammer. If Thor can emit a lightning bolt from his hands then he can summon one many many times stronger using his hammer.

Ok, now I agree with this since there isnt anything proving otherwise IMO. I dont agree with the weather control thing though. Thor can conjure up storms and lightning without his hammer.

Originally posted by h1a8
I've never seen Thor use weather control without his hammer (except once emitting lightning from his hands). Maybe you are right, but it certainly borders speculation. With that said, Thor's most powerful blasts come only from using his hammer. If Thor can emit a lightning bolt from his hands then he can summon one many many times stronger using his hammer.
When he fought Storm he was hovering and stirring the stormclouds without Mjolnir. He really only needs Mjolnir for fast travel, teleportation, and energy projection/manipulation IIRC.

Originally posted by Blanket
"Don't mind me, I'm just trolling by" Originally posted by Allankles
I just mentioned a list of guys above skyfather, and Odin level translates to skyfather. Dominus and Mageddon both of them are abstracts, above skyfathers. Mageddon was an abstract sentient weapon made by the old gods, and Dominus was transformed into an abstract. Again, he was overwhelmed by mageddon and was snapped out of it by Batman. It's a unique anyways and more a weapon than an independent being like Odin.

Dominus also had multiple chances to kill Superman and only defeated him by changing his brain waves not matching him power for power.

i wish i had the scan where thor is pounding a guy into submission and is screaming that his fist are the thunder and lightning and having energy discharge with each blow and thunder crackling...

Originally posted by h1a8
Ok, Thor can control weather and such without his hammer.

But without more speed he loses everytime to Superman. That is not what this thread is about, and you just proved why you shouldn't be posting here.

Originally posted by Blanket
That is not what this thread is about, and you just proved why you shouldn't be posting here.

where should he post then blanket?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
where should he post then blanket? In all the shitty, ill thought out threads.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/Thor%20Feats/Hammerbreaking.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/Thor%20Feats/Hammerbreaking2.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/Thor%20Feats/Mjolnirshattered.jpg

^ This is from Thor, volume 2, issue 80. Mjolnir is shattered after being impacted with various other Mjolnir-based hammers. It remains this way for the rest of the arc, until Thor tells Surtur to repair Mjolnir (for its symbolism, not that he truly needed it as he was empowered by the OF and Runes).

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/Thor%20Feats/Godpowers.jpg

^ Issue 82, volume 2. Here you plainly see Thor using his powers as he gripped Geirroodur, king of the trolls in a full nelson. Note he's not actively using Mjolnir, which is still damaged.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/Thor%20Feats/Callsrain.jpg

^ Same issue, Thor summons rain from above, again without Mjolnir.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/Thor%20Feats/GodblastwithoutMjolnir.jpg

^ Still same issue, here Thor specifically cites his godly power as his own and without Mjolnir, blasts the shit out of Durok.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/Thor%20Feats/WithoutOdinforce.jpg

^Issue 83, volume 2, Thor pointedly states he no longer possesses the Odinpower.

So, yeah, Thor doesn't need Mjolnir to use his own powers, and he can do so all without the OF.

Holy crap, my brain cells melted reading the last three pages.

facepalm

Quickly flipping through the last few pages we need scans of Thor:

Flying without Mjolnir?

Thor does so here.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_FlyWithoutMjolnir10.jpg

He does so once again.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/th_FlyWithoutMjolnir4.jpghttp://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/th_FlyWithoutMjolnir6.jpghttp://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/th_FlyWithoutMjolnir8.jpghttp://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/th_FlyWithoutMjolnir9.jpg

He can hover in one place (His done so more than once by the way.).
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_DefeatsStorm2.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/th_DefeatsStorm3.jpg

Here Thor flies from Asgard to Earth in moments by taking the long route, and Asgard is as far as things get if you don't take the rainbow bridge as I understand it.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/th_FlywithoutMjolnirinSpace.jpghttp://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/th_FlyWithoutMjolnirInSpace1.jpg

Check (I can post more, if I need to.).

We need scans of Thor using other abilities without Mjolnir?
Scroll down to the 13th post or so.

Check.

Can we all agree that h1 doesn't know what the hell he is talking about?

Originally posted by Harbinger
Holy crap, my brain cells melted reading the last three pages.

You mean both?


biscuits

Kiddin.

Thor is a great character but, in my personal opinion, Superman will always be the better and more powerful hero. It's going to take a different marvel hero to beat Superman. It seems to me that some people are always going out of their way to try and prove Supes is just another average or slightly more than average cosmic level comic book character, like a Terrax....
I've not really liked Superman since he came back from the dead but I begrudgingly admit he is the greatest hero in comics up till this point. There are some great anti-hero's to be fair but when everything is on the line Supes is the person that saves the day.
Sentry is Marvels attempt to create a new era for a great hero (hence the first sentry - not to be confused with century - comic coming out in 2000). Thor has a case to be second until Marvel makes sentry its top dog. my 2 pennies.