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I'm talking about fighting speed...not traveling speed.

Hulk
Sentry
Silver Surfer
Thor
Wonder Woman
Flash (Wally)
Martian Manhunter
Thanos
Black Adam
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)

Flash and wonderwoman are the top dogs...

hulk is the slowest

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm talking about fighting speed...not traveling speed.

Hulk
Sentry
Silver Surfer
Thor
Wonder Woman
Flash (Wally)
Martian Manhunter
Thanos
Black Adam
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)


Flash is fastest 150%-unknown
Superman is next 100%
WW 90%
Silver Surfer=GL 85%
BA=MM 75%
Sentry 20-40%
Thor less than 1%
Thanos less than 1%
Hulk less than 1%

Thor should be around 5-10% at least, if we count his reflex speed.

Silver Surfer is >= Superman in speed, imo.

Flash is definitely the fastest, no contest.

WTF? Thanos and Hulk aren't even speedsters. They don't belong here.

The others are marginally slower than Superman.

lol "less than 1%"

Thanos = superspeed when he wants to:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Thanos_blastspeed1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Thanos_blastspeed2.jpg

Originally posted by Enyalus
Thanos = superspeed when he wants to:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Thanos_blastspeed1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Thanos_blastspeed2.jpg


Doesn't really look like superspeed..
It seemed like the rest of the energy blasts were emanating from his control of PC.
He doesn't really need to use his hands to shoot energy beams. Dr. Light could do the same thing.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Doesn't really look like superspeed..
It seemed like the rest of the energy blasts were emanating from his control of PC.
He doesn't really need to use his hands to shoot energy beams. Dr. Light could do the same thing.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Doesn't really look like superspeed..
It seemed like the rest of the energy blasts were emanating from his control of PC.
He doesn't really need to use his hands to shoot energy beams. Dr. Light could do the same thing.

Originally posted by Mindset

Originally posted by Mindset

Well, we didn't see any fadeouts from his hands if they were really moving.

I dunno.. If it was, that was pretty fast for a slowpoke
It was too fast, we can't even see the fadeouts.

Originally posted by h1a8
Flash is fastest 150%-unknown
Superman is next 100%
WW 90%
Silver Surfer=GL 85%
BA=MM 75%
Sentry 20-40%
Thor less than 1%
Thanos less than 1%
Hulk less than 1%

lol I bet Hal has much more combat speed feats than Thor to justify this...

Originally posted by Warlord
lol I bet Hal has much more combat speed feats than Thor to justify this... Huh?

He has Hal over Thor.

Think it was sarcasm.

it was...

You realize you're on KMC, right?

You'll have to clearly differentiate sarcasm from stupidity.

i thought people should be able to differrenciate one's expressions after posting over some months here...oh well

Flash - 200% or more
Surfer - 100%
Hal - never seen him fight at superspeed or i probably just don't remember..

the others i don't really care..

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm talking about fighting speed...not traveling speed.

Hulk = ?? 10-15%?
Sentry = 80-90%
Silver Surfer = 200%+
Thor = 60-70%
Wonder Woman = 80-90%
Flash (Wally) = 100%+
Martian Manhunter = ?? looked quite close.
Thanos = ? aside from Runner blitzing him, haven't seen him troubled
Black Adam = ??
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) = ? seem slower

Originally posted by janus77


silver surfer is faster then flash? fanboy alarm

Originally posted by Kingfish
silver surfer is faster then flash? fanboy alarm
it's tricky, Flash should be just as fast but do recall Superman matching Flash for speed.

Surfer on the otherhand, has done stupendously fast things (like travelling lightyears in seconds) which I don't see Superman coming close to.

Originally posted by janus77
it's tricky, Flash should be just as fast but do recall Superman matching Flash for speed.

Surfer on the otherhand, has done stupendously fast things (like travelling lightyears in seconds) which I don't see Superman coming close to. umm this thread is about fighting speed...not traveling speed

Originally posted by Starscream M
umm this thread is about fighting speed...not traveling speed
what's the difference if the character can react/move their limbs and process information at those speeds?

Surfer speedblitzed FTL characters.

Flash is faster than both Superman and Norrin by a fair amount.

in reflexes i'd put Superman above Norrin, though.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm talking about fighting speed...not traveling speed.

Hulk
Sentry
Silver Surfer
Thor
Wonder Woman
Flash (Wally)
Martian Manhunter
Thanos
Black Adam
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)


Hulk 3%
Sentry 50%
Silver Surfer 150%
Thor 30%
Wonder Woman 95%
Flash (Wally) I can't do maths that high.
Martian Manhunter Over 9000
Thanos 40%
Black Adam 95%
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) 60% (If he's prepared)

in no way silver surfer is faster then flash and specially not in combat speed

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk = ?? 10-15%?
Sentry = 80-90%
Silver Surfer = 200%+
Thor = 60-70%
Wonder Woman = 80-90%
Flash (Wally) = 100%+
Martian Manhunter = ?? looked quite close.
Thanos = ? aside from Runner blitzing him, haven't seen him troubled
Black Adam = ??
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) = ? seem slower

Have you completely lost your mind?

Hulk 10-15%??????????????????????


SS 200%+ ??????????????????????? Travel speed you may have an argument. Fighting speed?????????????????????????

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm talking about fighting speed...not traveling speed.
Sentry: about as fast as Superman, at best.
Silver Surfer: not as fast (though potentially he should be, or faster).
Thor: slower still but has had his moments
Wonder Woman: faster than Superman (natural speed + training does it).
Flash (Wally): faster than WW

Originally posted by Slaanesh
the others i don't really care..

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Martian Manhunter Over 9000


now you just undeerestimate him

Originally posted by -Pr-
Flash is faster than both Superman and Norrin by a fair amount.

in reflexes i'd put Superman above Norrin, though.

Agreed on all counts.

Fight Speed:
Hulk-20
Sentry-80
Silver Surfer-85
Thor-45
Wonder Woman-110
Flash (Wally)-130
Martian Manhunter-70
Thanos-25
Black Adam-75
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)-15

Lucky Luke over 9000

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Fight Speed:
Hulk-20
Sentry-80
Silver Surfer-85
Thor-45
Wonder Woman-110
Flash (Wally)-130
Martian Manhunter-70
Thanos-25
Black Adam-75
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)-15

Hulk can fight at super speed? Wow. The Hulk situation here is worse than I thought.

I'm talking about fighting speed...not traveling speed.

Hulk - 10%
Sentry - 90%
Silver Surfer - 500%
Thor - 500% (due to BRB's fight with Surfer)
Wonder Woman - 105%
Flash (Wally) - 10000%
Martian Manhunter - 80%
Thanos - 110%
Black Adam - 100%
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) - 120%

Just guesses

Wonder Woman is confirmed faster, so I'll say 110. Wally, 180 sounds good. Other speedforce users in the 130-150 range generally.

SS is faster than Flash.

Originally posted by galactusischere
SS is faster than Flash. Not in fighting speed

Originally posted by Mindset
You realize you're on KMC, right?

You'll have to clearly differentiate sarcasm from stupidity.

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Yeah good one !!!!!!!!!

Okay thats it, you guys are ****ing retarded.

I'm going to use Omega Vision's figures (sorry for picking on you, but it made me snap)

Hulk-20
Sentry-80
Silver Surfer-85
Thor-45
Wonder Woman-110
Flash (Wally)-130
Martian Manhunter-70
Thanos-25
Black Adam-75
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)-15




If Flash is 130%, lets look at his feats and what that translates to for the other characters.

Here Flash, shows he can throw 2000 punches a second.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/200ex.jpg


What does this translate to for these characters and proposed relative fighting speeds?

Hulk-20%...................................... 307 punches/second

Sentry-80....................................... 1230 punches/second

Silver Surfer-85.............................. 1307 punches/second

Thor-45.......................................... 692 punches/second

Wonder Woman-110....................... 1692 punches/second

Flash (Wally)-130........................... 2000 punches/second

Martian Manhunter-70..................... 1072 punches/second

Thanos-25...................................... 384 punches/second

Black Adam-75.................................1153 punches/second

Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)-15...........230 punches/second


This should really open people's eyes and crush delusions of some Marvel characters having anywhere near the fighting speeds of Superman, WW etc.

Hulk throwing over 300 punches in a second? Thor punching around 700 times a second? Please.

Now I know I'm only using one poster's figures, but the majority of other posts here aren't that different.

Lets say Hulk can throw 5 punches in one second which I believe is an overestimate, on this scale, he should only have around 0.325.

Indeed the value of speed has been trivialized to senseless levels on KMC Comics Vs.

On a side note, this further reinforces the Combo-to-KO theory.

Originally posted by Placidity
On a side note, this further reinforces the Combo-to-KO theory. minus actually ko'ing his opponent in the scan.

and all you had to do was point out that the flash's number was too low instead of deconstructing an error.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
minus actually ko'ing his opponent in the scan.

and all you had to do was point out that the flash's number was too low instead of deconstructing an error.

No, Flash doesn't have Super strength like Superman, WW, Black Adam etc.

No, Flash isn't that much faster than Superman. Maybe 20-30%. That would still make the other figures more than ridiculous. Hulk will always be less than 1% when compared to Superman. Thor and some others shouldn't be anywhere near as high as people are saying either.

Originally posted by Placidity
No, Flash isn't that much faster than Superman. Maybe 20-30%.
In fighting speeds he is much faster than Superman. Superman or Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter have never thrown anywhere near 1,000 punches in a second.

Originally posted by Enyalus
In fighting speeds he is much faster than Superman. Superman or Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter have never thrown anywhere near 1,000 punches in a second.

On average, Superman has shown he is capable of hanging with Flash.

Of course when Flash goes nuts he leaves everyone in the dust, but I'm talking about average showings.

Originally posted by Placidity
On average, Superman has shown he is capable of hanging with Flash.
In a race, yes. Unless you count Barry dusting him.

In combat speed, never.

Originally posted by Enyalus
In a race, yes. Unless you count Barry dusting him.

In combat speed, never.

Anyone who can run at superspeed can also fight at comparable superspeed. The reasoning is if Superman is to run anywhere near as fast as Flash, he needs to be able to move his limbs (arms and legs) at the same rate. This would translate into a comparable fighting speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Flash is fastest 150%-unknown
Superman is next 100%
WW 90%
Silver Surfer=GL 85%
BA=MM 75%
Sentry 20-40%
Thor less than 1%
Thanos less than 1%
Hulk less than 1%
These figures are quite accurate, actually.

But, like I said, Thor should be around 5-10% if we count his reflex speed.

Originally posted by Placidity
Anyone who can run at superspeed can also fight at comparable superspeed. The reasoning is if Superman is to run anywhere near as fast as Flash, he needs to be able to move his limbs (arms and legs) at the same rate. This would translate into a comparable fighting speed.
Wally's fight against Zoom and outright acknowledging that Superman would be useless in that fight would seem to contradict that "logic."

Originally posted by Enyalus
Wally's fight against Zoom and outright acknowledging that Superman would be useless in that fight would seem to contradict that "logic."

Its not just logic, it is a fact. You just don't have anyway of arguing it. You know this.

I also said average showing, you know this.

superman has to push himself to propel himself to lightspeed, his combat speed is much lower than that, faster than eyes can follow but still under light.

flash however can...well everyone read the zoom fight, no explanation needed there.

Originally posted by Placidity
Anyone who can run at superspeed can also fight at comparable superspeed. The reasoning is if Superman is to run anywhere near as fast as Flash, he needs to be able to move his limbs (arms and legs) at the same rate. This would translate into a comparable fighting speed. somewhat, but he is also only running. you can't assume that both speeds would be the same.

Originally posted by Placidity
I also said average showing, you know this.
Just to clarify...."2000-punch-per-second" Wally is average Flash, according to you?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Just to clarify...."2000-punch-per-second" Wally is average Flash, according to you?

Why don't you suggest another figure. And I will ask you the same thing?

Just to add a note, Wally doesn't look strained at all delivering those punches, still having a chat. Correct me when if I'm wrong, but in almost all his high showings, he doesn't usually talk when in superspeed, only thought bubbles.

Originally posted by Placidity
Why don't you suggest another figure. And I will ask you the same thing?

Just to add a note, Wally doesn't look strained at all delivering those punches, still having a chat. Correct me when if I'm wrong, but in almost all his high showings, he doesn't usually talk when in superspeed, only thought bubbles.
You could've just said "Yes."

I wasn't going to attempt to hammer you for it. Just was attempting to better understand where you were coming from.

Originally posted by psycho gundam


somewhat, but he is also only running. you can't assume that both speeds would be the same.

I assume by "only running" you mean only leg speed? If that's what you meant, then you'd also be saying Superman's arms aren't synchronized with his legs? Meaning, Superman looks retarded when he is running?

Whatever the case, it should still be around the same. Its all just about how fast you can move your limbs.

Now, if you compare humans, you'd probably have a case. Afterall, a fast runner may not be a fast fighter. But Superspeed fights involve both moving around at superspeed AND delivering superspeed strikes. Not only that, Flash's source of speed is not due to his anatomy or physiology, so the human comparison would be invalid.

real world physics dont apply to comic book physics. You have to use the precedent set by the comics themselves not textbooks. Its obvious situations in the fantasy world of comics follow there own rules.

Originally posted by meep-meep
real world physics dont apply to comic book physics. You have to use the precedent set by the comics themselves not textbooks. Its obvious situations in the fantasy world of comics follow there own rules.

Sorry, not physics. Logic.

Still, until there's a comic with Superman punching at even over 500 times per second, you can't just automatically assume he can do such a thing.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Still, until there's a comic with Superman punching at even over 500 times per second, you can't just automatically assume he can do such a thing.

I can respect that. Even going by your conservative figure, Hulk, assuming he can dish out 5 punches a second (he can't), would still be at 1%.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm talking about fighting speed...not traveling speed.

Hulk
Sentry
Silver Surfer
Thor
Wonder Woman
Flash (Wally)
Martian Manhunter
Thanos
Black Adam
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)

So what you want is h2h speed? Because anyone who can navigate and react while travelling in multiples of c necessarily has fighting speed of multiples of c. The SS who is the most debated subject in this matter doesn't have to throw punche to uses his powers, he only needs to think and he thinks faster than light and can analyse situations, plan and act in under a nanosecond.

Separating travelling speed from combat speed only makes sense if the character really can't see what he is doing, think or react when travelling at maximum speed; or when applyed to people who teleport or open portals to travel faster than light between two points.

IMO both flash and SS leave SM in the dust as far as reaction time a and general motion speed goes. SS certainly has the highest feats of all when it comes to moving between two points and he can coordinate his movements when doing it. The flash's maximum speed, if it exists at all is ceratinly far above c, while SM can effectivelly blitz at just a bit under c.

Surfer 500%
Flash 100.1 %
The rest not that hight

Originally posted by 753
So what you want is h2h speed? Because anyone who can navigate and react while travelling in multiples of c necessarily has fighting speed of multiples of c. The SS who is the most debated subject in this matter doesn't have to throw punche to uses his powers, he only needs to think and he thinks faster than light and can analyse situations, plan and act in under a nanosecond.

Separating travelling speed from combat speed only makes sense if the character really can't see what he is doing, think or react when travelling at maximum speed; or when applyed to people who teleport or open portals to travel faster than light between two points.

Not entirely correct. For one thing, the OP might have meant H2H combat speed.

Secondly, while what you say is true about SS having comparable if not superior "thought speed", for him to attack, he still needs to move his arms, target and fire his blasts. Not only that, but because he will want to avoid getting hit by someone like Superman in a fight, he would have to maneuver around quickly too.

As for separating travelling speed from combat speed, that is also not entirely correct. For one thing, there is the popular "straight-line travel" speed vs I guess "non-straight-line" travel which I won't go into since its been discussed so many times. The other thing is combat speed involves agility, which while related to travelling speed, does not necessarily mean the character possesses both.

Originally posted by Placidity
I can respect that. Even going by your conservative figure, Hulk, assuming he can dish out 5 punches a second (he can't), would still be at 1%.
Superman has punched fast enough to set off sonic booms. Let's operate from that. Assume he's punching at 800 mph. If he's gotta move 2.5 feet (arm length, let's say) how many punches is that thrown in a second? Or do we need h1 to come in here, lol?

Originally posted by Placidity
Secondly, while what you say is true about SS having comparable if not superior "thought speed", for him to attack, he still needs to move his arms, target and fire his blasts. Not only that, but because he will want to avoid getting hit by someone like Superman in a fight, he would have to maneuver around quickly too.

As for separating travelling speed from combat speed, that is also not entirely correct. For one thing, there is the popular "straight-line travel" speed vs I guess "non-straight-line" travel which I won't go into since its been discussed so many times. The other thing is combat speed involves agility, which while related to travelling speed, does not necessarily mean the character possesses both.

SS has tracked/followed the wireless electronic signal of a computer through its compound (the entire planet, basically) while being struck by it's defensive laser systems. In a non-straight line way. That translates to near-light speed maneuverability. And he's on a surf board mind you, so he needs to move a lot of his body in order to maneuver properly...

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SS_lightspeedmaneuvering0-1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SS_lightspeedmaneuvering1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SS_lightspeedmaneuvering2.jpg

Originally posted by Placidity
Not entirely correct. For one thing, the OP might have meant H2H combat speed.

Secondly, while what you say is true about SS having comparable if not superior "thought speed", for him to attack, he still needs to move his arms, target and fire his blasts. Not only that, but because he will want to avoid getting hit by someone like Superman in a fight, he would have to maneuver around quickly too.

As for separating travelling speed from combat speed, that is also not entirely correct. For one thing, there is the popular "straight-line travel" speed vs I guess "non-straight-line" travel which I won't go into since its been discussed so many times. The other thing is combat speed involves agility, which while related to travelling speed, does not necessarily mean the character possesses both.

That's why I asked wheter he meant h2h speed or not. If he did, than ww is faster than SM because she is the better fighter and has the best combination of agility and mind to body coordeantion. But does this mean she thinks faster or is she just a more competent h2h fighter? To me it's the latter.

By the same account SM is a better h2h fighter than SS, but a combat is not necessarily restricted to h2h. I think SS can successfully use his reaction and thought speed to dodge and tag with blasts and such.

Even if SS lacked the coordination to do this, which I dont think he does, there are ways someone with his powerset can fight at very high speed even being a totally uncoordinated clutz: he can just blast in all directions; he can teleport and go intangible to avoid being hit; he can target with energy tracking, cosmic awareness and his bizarre senses instead of eyesight; he can use blasts that lock onto the target; he can blast from any part of his body not just his fists; etc. So he can still fight with superspeed even with no h2h2 speed.

Point is:

1 - h2h speed is more than movement speed and includes brawling competence.

2 - h2h speed is not an accurate synonim of combat (a broader term) speed

to me if you can do non straight-line travel while navigating and dodging things (which the SS does all the time), this proves you can do combat speed at those levels. It does not, however, prove you have brawling competece to go against other speedsters (even slower ones) in melee and keep up with them. So to me, SS has more combat speed than SM, but less brawling speed (succesfull use of speed in a brawl). If they go for mellee SM has an edge, but overall speed edge goes for SS.

Originally posted by Placidity
I assume by "only running" you mean only leg speed? If that's what you meant, then you'd also be saying Superman's arms aren't synchronized with his legs? Meaning, Superman looks retarded when he is running? whoa whoa.. say what now?

just saying you can't equate linear motion using his full effort to a flash like combat attack and assume it would be the same speed as his foot race with wally.

flash's decent combat feats (not low or peak ones) are mostly on par if not higher than superman's best combat feats in terms of speed.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Flash and wonderwoman are the top dogs...

hulk is the slowest

Originally posted by 753

Even if SS lacked the coordination to do this, which I dont think he does, there are ways someone with his powerset can fight at very high speed even being a totally uncoordinated clutz: he can just blast in all directions; he can teleport and go intangible to avoid being hit; he can target with energy tracking, cosmic awareness and his bizarre senses instead of eyesight; he can use blasts that lock onto the target; he can blast from any part of his body not just his fists; etc. So he can still fight with superspeed even with no h2h2 speed.

Point is:

1 - h2h speed is more than movement speed and includes brawling competence.

2 - h2h speed is not an accurate synonim of combat (a broader term) speed

to me if you can do non straight-line travel while navigating and dodging things (which the SS does all the time), this proves you can do combat speed at those levels. It does not, however, prove you have brawling competece to go against other speedsters (even slower ones) in melee and keep up with them. So to me, SS has more combat speed than SM, but less brawling speed (succesfull use of speed in a brawl). If they go for mellee SM has an edge, but overall speed edge goes for SS.

I agree with almost everything you said. For the record, I believe SS would beat SM in a fight, but thats not exactly what this thread is about.

The only thing I wouldn't totally agree with is what you said about non-straight line travel and navigation equating to comparable combat speed (this should serve as a reply to Enyalus' last post to me too I think). I said the same thing earlier, but I specifically mentioned running speed, because it involves movement of the limbs used in H2H combat. Now in SS's case, his non-linear travel speed doesn't demonstrate his ability to move his limbs quickly, since he is only directing his motion through his mind to his board.

Also good point making the distinction between H2H speed and Combat speed. But also I feel it should be noted that if one lacks H2H speed, they lack the prerequisite for having combat speed.

i hate percentages, so i'm just going to put them in order:

Flash (Wally)
Superman
Wonder Woman
Black Adam
Martian Manhunter
Thor
Silver Surfer
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Sentry
Hulk

Thanos i have no idea, so left him out.

all these guys would get eaten by odin, and the slower guys would last longer. (no homo)

speed be damned biscuits

Originally posted by -Pr-
i hate percentages, so i'm just going to put them in order:

Flash (Wally)
Superman
Wonder Woman
Black Adam
Martian Manhunter
Thor
Silver Surfer
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Sentry
Hulk

Thanos i have no idea, so left him out.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
all these guys would get eaten by odin, and the slower guys would last longer. (no homo)

speed be damned biscuits



Originally posted by Mindset


what?

Why do you have SS so low?

What has Thor done that gives him better combat speed?

etc. etc. ad nausuem. angina.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i hate percentages, so i'm just going to put them in order:



Flash (Wally)


Wonder Woman
Superman


Silver Surfer
Sentry
Black Adam
Martian Manhunter


Thor
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)


Hulk

Not sure about Thanos.

While I won't assign percentages because I'm too lazy to figure out how that translates mathematically, I did separate them into groups. A space between groupings represents a speed advantage. The persons within each grouping have comparable speed.

General comments. Hulk doesn't have any superspeed so I would put him at less than 1%. WW & Superman - Diana's training makes the difference for me. Flash is comfortably above both of them however. The order of the third group might be off, but I do put them all below WW & Supes because none of them have the combination of both speed AND skill. (Yes, I consider Superman more skilled than all 4 of them). Thor and Lantern just don't have the actual combat speed to be any higher. Thor would be more skilled than anyone above him except Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why do you have SS so low?

What has Thor done that gives him better combat speed?

etc. etc. ad nausuem. angina.

some of those are the slightest gaps possible. i didn't want to put anyone on even levels, as it seemed too undefinitive, i guess.

cut raoul some slack

Originally posted by Sasaraixx

Flash (Wally)


Wonder Woman
Superman


Silver Surfer
Sentry
Black Adam
Martian Manhunter


Thor
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)


Hulk

Not sure about Thanos.

While I won't assign percentages because I'm too lazy to figure out how that translates mathematically, I did separate them into groups. A space between groupings represents a speed advantage. The persons within each grouping have comparable speed.

General comments. Hulk doesn't have any superspeed so I would put him at less than 1%. WW & Superman - Diana's training makes the difference for me. Flash is comfortably above both of them however. The order of the third group might be off, but I do put them all below WW & Supes because none of them have the combination of both speed AND skill. (Yes, I consider Superman more skilled than all 4 of them). Thor and Lantern just don't have the actual combat speed to be any higher. Thor would be more skilled than anyone above him except Wonder Woman.

agreed for the most part. i'd still put clark slightly above diana (or at worst, even with her). any advantage, though, isn't going to be that large.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
cut raoul some slack Never.

Kal-El kneels the fastest.

Hello, new here. Just wanted to point out that in last years holloween special superman raced the flash at just under light speed.The race was not only by foot ,supes swam while crossing oceans.

Originally posted by -Pr-
agreed for the most part. i'd still put clark slightly above diana (or at worst, even with her). any advantage, though, isn't going to be that large.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
General comments. Hulk doesn't have any superspeed so I would put him at less than 1%.
^ This is where I've got a bit of a problem with the post. Less than 1% of Flash's combat speed, sure thing. No problem. Less than 1% of Superman's combat speed?

I cannot in good conscience agree.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx

Flash (Wally)


Wonder Woman
Superman


Silver Surfer
Sentry
Black Adam
Martian Manhunter


Thor
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)


Hulk

Not sure about Thanos.

While I won't assign percentages because I'm too lazy to figure out how that translates mathematically, I did separate them into groups. A space between groupings represents a speed advantage. The persons within each grouping have comparable speed.

General comments. Hulk doesn't have any superspeed so I would put him at less than 1%. WW & Superman - Diana's training makes the difference for me. Flash is comfortably above both of them however. The order of the third group might be off, but I do put them all below WW & Supes because none of them have the combination of both speed AND skill. (Yes, I consider Superman more skilled than all 4 of them). Thor and Lantern just don't have the actual combat speed to be any higher. Thor would be more skilled than anyone above him except Wonder Woman.

Agreed tho id move SS into section 2.

Originally posted by Enyalus
^ This is where I've got a bit of a problem with the post. Less than 1% of Flash's combat speed, sure thing. No problem. Less than 1% of Superman's combat speed?

I cannot in good conscience agree.

That should be less than 10%. Typo on my part.

Originally posted by h1a8
Flash is fastest 150%-unknown
Superman is next 100%
WW 90%
Silver Surfer=GL 85%
BA=MM 75%
Sentry 20-40%
Thor less than 1%
Thanos less than 1%
Hulk less than 1%


i agree with most of this but im putting ba up there at 90% with wunner woman.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
That should be less than 10%. Typo on my part.
Ah. We're still cool, then.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Kal-El kneels the fastest.

like him on his knees, do ya?

Originally posted by -Pr-
i hate percentages, so i'm just going to put them in order:

Flash (Wally)
Superman
Wonder Woman
Black Adam
Martian Manhunter
Thor
Silver Surfer
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Sentry
Hulk

Thanos i have no idea, so left him out.

good list except of the Sentry

I like where the post of Flash's 2000 punches in a second has him being just a little above Superman when pretty much every Superman 'blitz' scenario has him throwing like 10-20 punches a second judging by art (since we can't exactly go by statements).

artwise it would be difficult to show it in any different way

Originally posted by Warlord
artwise it would be difficult to show it in any different way Artwise is what people use to say he blitz's everyone.
'He move arm fast, other guy lose.'

Althought they could just have a statement about anything Supes does in speed for a change...

Agree...it's hard to judge superspeed just buy the "blurs" in a pannel...
I also find it ridiculous that every blur = lightspeed for some people or at the same time a superhuman reaction gets dismissed due to not being drawn that way

Originally posted by Warlord
Agree...it's hard to judge superspeed just buy the "blurs" in a pannel...
I also find it ridiculous that every blur = lightspeed for some people or at the same time a superhuman reaction gets dismissed due to not being drawn that way
That's why I like things explained in comics when you're going to argue about it. Even though I know that's not what comics are about, most comics devolve into internet fodder for feats, as a result of so many 'vs sections' on the internet.

Originally posted by Blanket
That's why I like things explained in comics when you're going to argue about it. Even though I know that's not what comics are about, most comics devolve into internet fodder for feats, as a result of so many 'vs sections' on the internet.

i figured it's a nice way to kill some time but sometimes it ends up silly.
people can't actually accept the fact that artists and writers do not take in account all the crazy details readers think when they read a comic...for example...Taskmaster hits thor - thor bleeds - forum paranoia - the artits intention must have been to show Thor is weak and not to build a dynamic sceen for Tasky...anyway....

Originally posted by Blanket
Artwise is what people use to say he blitz's everyone.
'He move arm fast, other guy lose.'

Althought they could just have a statement about anything Supes does in speed for a change...

There are moments where the pictures do the talking, do we really need someone telling us how fast he's moving, every time he moves relatively fast? If opponent x is getting owned, that's what's happening.

That's where comics earn their props, diagrammatic representation.

I agree its hard to tell just by the art, but if you really care for a sense of the character, I believe the films, TV and cartoon should give you some idea. Afterall, Marvel/DC has to give their nod to how the characters are depicted.

Take Superman for example, whether its the cartoons, Smallville, or films, he has always shown considerable superspeed. Look at his strength feats in Superman Returns, they also give a good idea.

Now compare that to Hulk, look at what his strength/speed levels are depicted as in every other media (Hulk films, Hulk vs Wolverine etc), he's not in the same class as Superman. Superman lifts continents. Hulk lifts Tanks and he makes it look like its a big deal.

Yes I slipped into an anti-Hulk discussion again =/

Originally posted by Warlord
i figured it's a nice way to kill some time but sometimes it ends up silly.
people can't actually accept the fact that artists and writers do not take in account all the crazy details readers think when they read a comic...for example...Taskmaster hits thor - thor bleeds - forum paranoia - the artits intention must have been to show Thor is weak and not to build a dynamic sceen for Tasky...anyway.... True.
But I'm not talking about high feats. Just about things that aren't explained and cause people to H1 every feat they think they can.

Originally posted by Allankles
There are moments where the pictures do the talking, do we really need someone telling us how fast he's moving, every time he moves relatively fast? If opponent x is getting owned, that's what's happening.

That's where comics earn their props, diagrammatic representation. K.
Superman can throw 10-20 punches in a second.

Originally posted by Blanket
K.
Superman can throw 10-20 punches in a second.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Ah. We're still cool, then.


Whew. I couldn't sleep last night!

Originally posted by Blanket
K.
Superman can throw 10-20 punches in a second.

Do we really want to speculate how many punches he can throw in a sec? A human can get off 2 to 3 punches a second, Supes should be able to top that, no?

Originally posted by Placidity
I agree with almost everything you said. For the record, I believe SS would beat SM in a fight, but thats not exactly what this thread is about.

The only thing I wouldn't totally agree with is what you said about non-straight line travel and navigation equating to comparable combat speed (this should serve as a reply to Enyalus' last post to me too I think). I said the same thing earlier, but I specifically mentioned running speed, because it involves movement of the limbs used in H2H combat. Now in SS's case, his non-linear travel speed doesn't demonstrate his ability to move his limbs quickly, since he is only directing his motion through his mind to his board.

Also good point making the distinction between H2H speed and Combat speed. But also I feel it should be noted that if one lacks H2H speed, they lack the prerequisite for having combat speed.

The one point I desagree with you is that I dont think h2h speed is a prerequisite for combat speed, because combat isn't limited to h2h, people can still do damge to the opponent while avoiding damage (do combat) at superspeed without resorting to h2h or even getting close to an enemy. For instance, you said, correctly so, that the flash running and dodging really fast proves he has h2h superspeed because it requires he moves his limbs really fast and involves agility and coordenation, while the SS controls a board mentally. But seen as SS powers are thought activated and do not require fine coordenation of limb movement and agility at high speeds (although he might have them) he can still fight at superspeeds by dodging with the board (or phasing, teleporting, etc) and blasting, transmuting, etc. All that matter is that he can react, think and tap into his own powers in time to keep up and counter superfast enemies (combat speed), not that he can't go toe to toe with them at a superfast brawl (h2h speed).

Originally posted by h1a8
Flash is fastest 150%-unknown
Superman is next 100%
WW 90%
Silver Surfer=GL 85%
BA=MM 75%
Sentry 20-40%
Thor less than 1%
Thanos less than 1%
Hulk less than 1%


Thor is actually pretty quick... He is capable of moving at speeds faster than the human eyes can see, not exactly the flash but hell, it's faster than Hulk

Wally
Superman
Wonder Woman
Black Adam
Martian Manhunter
Sentry
Silver Surfer
Thor
Thanos
Green Lantern (Hal)
Hulk
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Silver Surfer - 500%
Thor - 500% (due to BRB's fight with Surfer)
Thanos - 110%
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) - 120%

Just guesses What the f*ck?

superman is faster

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I'm talking about fighting speed...not traveling speed.

Hulk - 10%
Sentry - 90%
Silver Surfer - 500%
Thor - 500% (due to BRB's fight with Surfer)
Wonder Woman - 105%
Flash (Wally) - 10000%
Martian Manhunter - 80%
Thanos - 110%
Black Adam - 100%
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) - 120%

Just guesses

SENTRY
Fighting and Flying
50%
Just hand 2 hand
30%

HULK
Fighting and Flying
0% Hulk (only Jumps)
Just hand 2 hand
1%

SILVER SURFER
Fighting and Flying
4500%
Just hand 2 hand
90%

THOR
Fighting and Flying
50%
Just hand 2 hand
50%

WONDER WOMAN
Fighting and Flying
50%
Just hand 2 hand
110%

FLASH (Wally)
Fighting and Flying
1% Wally can't fly the best he can hope to is hitch a ride on a vortex
Just hand 2 hand
5100%


MANHUNTER
Fighting and Flying
90%
Just hand 2 hand
100%

THANOS
Fighting and Flying
0% Thanos teleports, levitates but does not fly
Just hand 2 hand
50%

BLACK ADAM
Fighting and Flying
90%
Just hand 2 hand
95%

GREENLANTERN (Hal Jordan)
Fighting and Flying
95%
Just hand 2 hand reactions
2%

Originally posted by Firestorms
SENTRY
Fighting and Flying
50%
Just hand 2 hand
30%

HULK
Fighting and Flying
0% Hulk (only Jumps)
Just hand 2 hand
1%

SILVER SURFER
Fighting and Flying
4500%
Just hand 2 hand
90%

THOR
Fighting and Flying
50%
Just hand 2 hand
50%

WONDER WOMAN
Fighting and Flying
50%
Just hand 2 hand
110%

FLASH (Wally)
Fighting and Flying
1% Wally can't fly the best he can hope to is hitch a ride on a vortex
Just hand 2 hand
5100%


MANHUNTER
Fighting and Flying
90%
Just hand 2 hand
100%

THANOS
Fighting and Flying
0% Thanos teleports, levitates but does not fly
Just hand 2 hand
50%

BLACK ADAM
Fighting and Flying
90%
Just hand 2 hand
95%

GREENLANTERN (Hal Jordan)
Fighting and Flying
95%
Just hand 2 hand reactions
2%

Looks pretty good to me, although flash could be given a 'running and fighting' item to account for the speed he can deslocate through space while coordinating an atack. He can also run through air, so in a way he can fly. I've seen scans of him vibrating, or something, himself into another planet, might have been pre-crisis though.

I think the GLs can actually fly faster than Superman.

Originally posted by Allankles
Do we really want to speculate how many punches he can throw in a sec? A human can get off 2 to 3 punches a second, Supes should be able to top that, no? If you haven't noticed, 10-20 is faster than 2-3...

Originally posted by Placidity
Sorry, not physics. Logic.

i understand what you mean but lets face it; logic in comicdom is its own animal as well. It just my opinion but i think using precedent is one of the best cases for proving your argument, whatever it might be. Everything outside of it is speculation. And now i will stop boring everyone with my droll observation.

Originally posted by Placidity
Okay thats it, you guys are ****ing retarded.

I'm going to use Omega Vision's figures (sorry for picking on you, but it made me snap)

Hulk-20
Sentry-80
Silver Surfer-85
Thor-45
Wonder Woman-110
Flash (Wally)-130
Martian Manhunter-70
Thanos-25
Black Adam-75
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)-15




If Flash is 130%, lets look at his feats and what that translates to for the other characters.

Here Flash, shows he can throw 2000 punches a second.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/200ex.jpg


What does this translate to for these characters and proposed relative fighting speeds?

Hulk-20%...................................... 307 punches/second

Sentry-80....................................... 1230 punches/second

Silver Surfer-85.............................. 1307 punches/second

Thor-45.......................................... 692 punches/second

Wonder Woman-110....................... 1692 punches/second

Flash (Wally)-130........................... 2000 punches/second

Martian Manhunter-70..................... 1072 punches/second

Thanos-25...................................... 384 punches/second

Black Adam-75.................................1153 punches/second

Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)-15...........230 punches/second


This should really open people's eyes and crush delusions of some Marvel characters having anywhere near the fighting speeds of Superman, WW etc.

Hulk throwing over 300 punches in a second? Thor punching around 700 times a second? Please.

Now I know I'm only using one poster's figures, but the majority of other posts here aren't that different.

Lets say Hulk can throw 5 punches in one second which I believe is an overestimate, on this scale, he should only have around 0.325.

Indeed the value of speed has been trivialized to senseless levels on KMC Comics Vs.

On a side note, this further reinforces the Combo-to-KO theory.
Take a chill pill. If we tried to put them all to scale Hulk would be in infinitesimals.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Whew. I couldn't sleep last night!
You posted that at 7 AM. I can tell you didn't sleep. I'm pretty confident I'm not even breathing at 7 AM.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Honestly thought the same thing when I read his list
Thirded.

Originally posted by Blanket
If you haven't noticed, 10-20 is faster than 2-3...

Wut?! You don't say!

No, he doesn't.

He types.

Ok. "You don't type!" Somehow doesn't seem right.

Originally posted by Warlord
lol I bet Hal has much more combat speed feats than Thor to justify this...

More is irrelevant. He has enough of them to where they exceed Thor's.
And don't get me started on PC Hal.

yay i got to post before closed

Originally posted by amnesia
Thor is actually pretty quick... He is capable of moving at speeds faster than the human eyes can see, not exactly the flash but hell, it's faster than Hulk

.1% of the speed of light is faster than the human eyes can follow. Hell that's almost 1000 times faster than a bullet. True Thor is faster than Hulk but both are still under 1% of Superman.

bumpity bump..

Hulk-100%
Sentry-500%
Silver Surfer-800%
Thor-1000%
Wonder Woman-110
Flash (Wally)-50%
Martian Manhunter-70
Thanos-25
Black Adam-45
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)-5%

yay i got to post

cool

LOL

so hispanics also have a derogatory word for black ppl not just the common known word of negro

negro is their favorite and easiest to say

chomper, you're wrong.

Originally posted by Mindset
chomper, you're wrong. if im wrong then explain why ? tell me whats their favorite word to use then ?

why am i asking you ? you probably havent even been to mexico before

Originally posted by chomperx9
negro is their favorite and easiest to say no its not.. their favorite word starts with a May........ ends with ate.

You're wrong because you're wrong.

I decline.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
no its not.. their favorite word starts with a May........ ends with ate. their favorite word is carajo. means damn it. you will hear them say that every time they are pissed off.

Originally posted by Mindset
You're wrong because you're wrong.

I decline. oh thats right cause master mindset declines that makes the other person wrong at anytime. i got it uh hu

Originally posted by chomperx9
oh thats right cause master mindset declines that makes the other person wrong at anytime. i got it uh hu It's, "uh huh".

Other than that, you'd be correct.

Originally posted by Mindset
It's, "uh huh". I decline

I didn't ask you to do anything.

Originally posted by Mindset
I didn't ask you to do anything. it was on me

Uh, ok...

If you use that scan to prove that the Flash can punch 2000 times per seconds, then this scan can be used to state that the Surfer can react at nanosecond speeed.

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg

2000 punches per second means that you punch/move your limbs once every 0.0005 seconds.

A nanosecond is 0.000000001 of a second.

With these examples as a reference, the Surfer's combat speed is much much faster than that of Flash.

Of course, in all honesty, I do not believe that such the case. I just believe that the example you used as reference is a little flawed.

That example was just that -- an example. It has no bearing on the upper limits of how many times Flash can punch a guy in that limited frame of time.

And even if you take the nanosecond hyperbole for granted -- which I don't -- he is still far slower than Flash.

The nanosecond is solid. Flash may very well be able to think and act faster than that, but it's up for people to prove it as far as this thread is concerned

I bet if this was Superman talking about a microsec it would be even more valid

Originally posted by Warlord
I bet if this was Superman talking about a microsec it would be even more valid

It would indeed. There is no reason to discard feats in which the author obvioulsy wants to describe the speed of a characters cognition and action and does so in unambiguous terms. It's a lot more solid than people saying tha artist drew the character blurring so we know he's going ftl, which is ridiculous.

A microsecond is still a lot longer than a nanosecond, but if you show me a scan of SM clearly reacting to something in let's say under a picosecond, I'll gladly say he has picosecond reaction times and is a lot faster than SS can match based on his own showings.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6497/588184fncrcv7largero7.jpg

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6497/588184fncrcv7largero7.jpg

Did he make it? I give him the nanoseconds then, even if he said about a nanosecond. discarding feats like this is sensless

so they can both move at "nanosecond" speeds by their own words...
both equally valid or both hyperbole...

Originally posted by 753
Did he make it? I give him the nanoseconds then, even if he said about a nanosecond. discarding feats like this is sensless

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8493/as603p19qp1.jpg

Flash is still faster, if he wants to.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6028/57475289.jpg

Originally posted by Warlord
so they can both move at "nanosecond" speeds by their own words...
both equally valid or both hyperbole...

Are you saying that SS and SM are lying to us? Don't they have accute enough senses to know how long it takes for a nanosecond to pass? Specially the SS should know something like this. Even if it's just a rough estimative on their part, isn't it reasonable to assume a human can know whether his actions take under 5 seconds or even one second? cant a human calculate actions and performing taking very few seconds, knowing it will take them very few seconds to do it? why not them?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8493/as603p19qp1.jpg

Flash is still faster, if he wants to.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6028/57475289.jpg

Flash certainly is faster than SM. I dont understand what the first scan shows though

Hulk - not a speedster and not in this class.
Sentry - maybe 80/90 maybe more. Haven't seen enough speed feats to be able to compare to DC speedster levels.
Silver Surfer - combat speed - not sure. Maybe 80, maybe more.
Thor - not a speedster and not in this class, despite some good showings.
Wonder Woman - 90-95. Her skill makes up for some of that gap, but even a stupid, angry, clumsy, mentally controlled Supes was able to get past her defensive skills and land some punches, which I think says a lot about his sheer speed given that he was up against a much more skilled and disciplined fighter.
Flash (Wally) - 150% or more when he goes all out.
Martian Manhunter - somewhere in 90 - 100.
Thanos - not a speedster and not in this class. He said he couldn't hit Gamora, and Gamora is a quick fighter but nothing like Supe's speed.
Black Adam - hard to say, but often the Marvels are shown as equals.
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) - not sure, maybe he can amp but he's not a speedster.

Credit goes to the Flash respect thread.

Originally posted by 753
Flash certainly is faster than SM. I dont understand what the first scan shows though

The first scan is the next page of Supes nanosecond feat.

Here some spead feats from Flash.

Nanosecond.
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/nanodoor.jpg

pico second
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/pico.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/pico2.jpg

Pico second 2
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/halfmilp2.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/halfmilp3.jpg

Originally posted by 753
Are you saying that SS and SM are lying to us? Don't they have accute enough senses to know how long it takes for a nanosecond to pass? Specially the SS should know something like this. Even if it's just a rough estimative on their part, isn't it reasonable to assume a human can know whether his actions take under 5 seconds or even one second? cant a human calculate actions and performing taking very few seconds, knowing it will take them very few seconds to do it? why not them?

They aren't lying, the writers aren't always aware what the stuff they write means. They want to entertain us, give us that wow-feeling, they don't give a shit about physics.

Saves the entire population from a nuclear explosion by carrying 1-2 people (out of a total of 532,000) in 0.0001 microseconds (he needs the Speed of Light for this? )

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/evucity.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/evucity2.jpg

Yes writers are often scientifically illiterate, specially mavel writers atempting to grasp concepts of biology and evolution.

But this creates a problem, how can we ever debate feats that have measures like mass and time in them if we don't assume them to be valid? I usually think they are somewhat more objective than fights between characters, because here isn't the need for the villain to loose or to preserve the image of the characters without them being completely humiliated by someone much more powerfull.

That first picosecond showing was hilarious. by the time he said 'a picoscond ago' in a speed the dude could hear a trillion of them would have passed. th second one looks good though

Originally posted by 753
Yes writers are often scientifically illiterate, specially mavel writers atempting to grasp concepts of biology and evolution.

But this creates a problem, how can we ever debate feats that have measures like mass and time in them if we don't assume them to be valid? I usually think they are somewhat more objective than fights between characters, because here isn't the need for the villain to loose or to preserve the image of the characters without them being completely humiliated by someone much more powerfull.

Yes but with feats like this one would always get stomped by an speedster, evacuating 532000 people (1-2 at a time) in 0,0001 seconds, to a place far away from the explosion, how many punches would this make in 0,0001 seconds. I guess you have to take both into account, the high end feats and what a char is capable of (in theory) and how he fares in real battles. Else you will end up doing more math then debating and in the end you will end like those poor Dragonball Z suckers.