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Now I chose Knives over Vash for this fight for a couple reasons.
1. He won't hesitate to kill
2. He showed he could do some weird blackhole thing.
Skip to about L30 and on in this vid
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Knives...the battle at the end of the anime proves it all.

Yeah, pretty much. The Angel Arms destructive capacity and the black hole is beyond Naruto level.

I think Orochimaru could win, but definitely not taking the Angel Arms or anything. Using genjutsu and rapid attack to make sure he doesn't, rather. Angel Arms takes time to charge.

It's not like Knives'd be happy if he got impaled with Orochi's sword, or crushed by the Eight Branches technique.

Manga Knives can create black holes, do orbital bombardment, and has crazy regeneration. He easily solos Narutoverse

This is not manga Knives though.

The simplest plan for Orochimaru against anime Knives is 8-branch then run him over. Too big to dodge out of the way even with Knives' speed, too tough for bullets to do squat, not giving him enough times for an Angel Arm.

Originally posted by Q99
The simplest plan for Orochimaru against anime Knives is 8-branch then run him over. Too big to dodge out of the way even with Knives' speed, too tough for bullets to do squat, not giving him enough times for an Angel Arm.

And he is supposed to do this before Knives shoots him in the face?

Regular bullets won't do anything to Oro...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Regular bullets won't do anything to Oro...

And you arrive at this conclusion how? He's never shrugged off bullets. In fact Kishimoto says that guns would be too powerful for Narutoverse. Considering shuriken and such are still a threat....

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And you arrive at this conclusion how? He's never shrugged off bullets. In fact Kishimoto says that guns would be too powerful for Narutoverse. Considering shuriken and such are still a threat.... All he's said is they aren't suited for a ninja. Just like he won't use planes or cars. The only thing he said is to powerful are nukes.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And you arrive at this conclusion how? He's never shrugged off bullets. In fact Kishimoto says that guns would be too powerful for Narutoverse. Considering shuriken and such are still a threat....
Because he got run through with a sword nearly as big as he was, and said it was just a scratch. So that kind of physical damage won't hurt him. I mean look at this, he's almost sliced in two down the middle and he's just chatting it up if not for being sealed.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/

Bullets=4 Tails Condensed Chakra Ball?? Really???

Oro stumps this boy with a speedblitz.

He summoned those gates to block that, and he did a clone technique to get through the sword. Furthermore even anime Vash was easily hypersonic.

Orochimaru would solo Trigun Universe. Its called Manda. Get to know him.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
He summoned those gates to block that, and he did a clone technique to get through the sword. Furthermore even anime Vash was easily hypersonic.
In no way was it ever stated that he used a clone with the sword of totsuka. In fact, the fact that the sword still sealed him is proof that he wasn't using one. The fact is that kind of physical damage won't kill him (which makes sense since his body is really a hive-mind of white snakes).

Something I'll note- a normal human would pretty much never be able to hit a ninja in combat, they simply don't have the aim speed to hit ninja speed. But put a gun in the hands of another ninja, who's fast enough to track and hit, and they'd be able to kill ninja a rank or two above them pretty solidly.


That's also against ninja-with-vaguely-normal-biology. Plenty of ninja do have defenses that'd work against bullets, Orochimaru and most S-class nin included.

Also I'll note- 90% of the time shuriken are just distractions, unless used in absurd number (like with Sasuke and Itachi threw a few hundred at each other from close range) or against weak foes or have something else going for them like poisons. Plus, keep in mind, they're thrown with super strength and chakra. Asuma can cut through *bolders* with his.



So guns? Big threat to normal means, any village would gain a massive advantage from having them, but not an auto-win by any means, and S-class ninja are threats to small countries to begin with.

You think Knives is a human? What series are you reading/watching?

Vash was easily flicking small pebbles to intercept bullets in a gunfight between others to make the wounds non-lethal and he did this casually.

Oh no, I'm not saying Knives is normal human, not even remotely close to it. Just making a general comment on guns and ninja.

Orochimaru'd be able to fight Knives due to the fact he's one of the ninja who won't care a ton about bullets, not that he won't be hit by them.

Didn't Knives give Legato his powers?

I think so but wasn't it by giving Legato Vash's arm or something?
The anime definitely didn't explain that one well...or at all. I don't remember Vash ever losing an arm.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
I think so but wasn't it by giving Legato Vash's arm or something?
The anime definitely didn't explain that one well...or at all. I don't remember Vash ever losing an arm. Vash lost his arm before the series began. Iirc it was taken off by Knives during the time Knives forces him to destroy that city with his Angel Arm. Least in the anime.

So Knives can give powers to people he himself can not use?

No idea..I didn't even remember it being said Legato got his powers from Knives, or Vash's arm. But it's been ages since I've seen it. And haven't read it yet.

Maybe it comes from the interaction of plant and human biologies (the arm providing the power, but Legato's mind providing the ability). Legato wasn't the only gung-ho gun with psychic powers, like the Cyclops's eye.

Maybe it's something Knives could give to himself... if he had surgery, which he wouldn't trust anyone to do.

Hard to say, but Knives never shows it himself.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You think Knives is a human? What series are you reading/watching?

Vash was easily flicking small pebbles to intercept bullets in a gunfight between others to make the wounds non-lethal and he did this casually.

Yeah, this.


It was so fast that you couldn't tell what happened until Woflwood said something about it. He threw a rock so fast that it should have caused a sonic boom...but that was just poor writing.

Still, he did that with his eyes closed. That puts his perception of the environment around him leagues beyond what any ninja has shown.




There's also the part where he was firing his gun so fast that it sounded like one shot, but it was two shots fired so close together that it sounds like one.

Knives is damn fast.

The guy who can beat Vash should take it.

Orochimaru is faster than Knives and have a few ways to close the distance by creating shadow clones, charging at him or hiding himself underground (I think this will prove to be very effective against Knives Angel arm blast since he was able to avoid NT4 chakra blast). No matter how skilled knives is with his gun, he's limited by only a few rounds, and could run out mid battle.

Orochimaru summoned thousands (it seemed like that many) of snakes from his mouth ready to pierce KT4 Naruto with swords from their mouth, until KT4 destroyed them with a chakra blast. Knives won't come close to taking out all those snakes before being killed unless he uses his Angel Arm, but he'll lose Orochimaru as his target and end up being taking by surprise. And Orochimaru can still summon and has shown the ability to regenerate half his body being cut in half. Orochimaru have too many advantages so I give it to him.

Are you serious? Knives can perceive and spot things with his eyes closed. I'm pretty damn sure he'll be able to tell apart Orochimaru from the shadow clones.

Knives isn't psychic, can't since chakra and won't be given the slightest chance of figuring out which clone is the real Orochimaru, especially when he's going to have several distractions Orochimaru can create.

Yea, people with X-ray eyes can't tell apart properly done shadow clones.

So shadow clones give off the same smell, air resistance, and sound as the user? And they also have the same mass?

Wow! Is Knives nose that sensitive?

Originally posted by Spidervlad
So shadow clones give off the same smell, air resistance, and sound as the user? And they also have the same mass?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Kiba's enhanced nose couldn't tell the difference, and they're physical which covers the other three.

They'd be poor dopplegangers if they weighed a lot less.

About the arm thing you guys were talking about:

Legato got Vash's powers, just a little, but getting Vash's arm that Knives shot of in July City.

In the manga, Legato gets his powers by threading this electrical wire shit into his brain and the Skull on his shoulder houses it. Legato can control people by sticking those microscopic wires into people and controlling their brains with his own. Knives can control an entire town just with this really tiny wires.



And, no, there's no comparison between the speed in Trigun and the speed in Naruto...as far as perception goes.


That, and in Trigun, the destruction capability is on a whole other level.

Is the manga or anime Knives?

And the Angel Arm (I'm going by the anime, not manga) may be more destructive (it put a crater in the moon), but I doubt it will help Knives in a fight with Orochimaru, since he will have to create some crazy distance if he plans to fire off a blast that large without getting caught in the blast himself.

Some videos showing Vash's perception. I am concluding that Vash's abilities = Knive's abilities, although Knives is supposedly even more powerful.



Look at how he finds Caine here, without even knowing that somebody is aiming at him or going to shoot him. Basically, he began calculating the time when the shot was fired and when it hit exactly the millisecond when he heard the shot. At the same time, in seconds, he calculated the angle of the impact and a few seconds later he was already next to Caine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtvVuC0c5EY&feature=related




Then, on this video, skip to 5:45. He was able to move so fast to unbutton Dominique's shirt, that he couldn't be seen. Also, when the Demon's Eye was still affecting him and paralyzing all his senses, he still dodged the shots. That's incredible! He basically had less than a millisecond to react as she 'teleported behind him' and her location became known to him. The fact that he even knew she was behind him should also be amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPxHJql_JkY

Originally posted by dadudemon

And, no, there's no comparison between the speed in Trigun and the speed in Naruto...as far as perception goes.

Perception, yes, but one problem he'll face will be actual physical speed needed to avoid some of the attacks.



But, at least in the anime version, only with big charge attacks he shouldn't have a chance to get off.

Even though Knives/Vash have good perception, that still doesn't mean they will be able to tell the difference between Orochimaru's clones, since, they are clone exactly like the user. Another thing is Knives is going to have to deal with several attacks coming his way, against a character very quick and not stationary.

Take a look at this fight, Sasuke has very good perception, not even skilled ninja's are able to sneak up on him and this was without the use of his sharingan. Sasuke using his sharingan was still tricked by a substitute from Orichimaru. Orichimaru is very fast and if Knives lose sight of him for even a sec Orichimaru will have that clone already set. He could go under ground to set up the jutsu, Knives wouldn't know the difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V06qbzDpeEU

He could also do all of that while summoning. And the summon snake isn't dumb and is quick that Knives won't be able to dodge it.

Anime is non canon, post manga scans or GTFO

You're a great example of what I'm talking about, people who take vs threads to personal so they start to insult people. You have no right to demand someone to post the manga instead the anime, especially when the thread starter post the anime instead of the manga. You just disrespected everyone using the anime as reference. You need to calm down.

I never insulted anyone, I was just being very forthright.

Originally posted by Q99
Perception, yes, but one problem he'll face will be actual physical speed needed to avoid some of the attacks.

See the above dude's post. Speed is on a whole other level. In Naruto, we see them almost flash step. In Trigun, you don't even see them move.



Originally posted by Q99
But, at least in the anime version, only with big charge attacks he shouldn't have a chance to get off.

He'll have more than enough time to get it off. Watch the portion in the anime where Knives snaps his fingers: Vash's arm very rapidly turns into that gun thing and Vash Barely stops it from going off...because it was starting up so fast.



Originally posted by dvampire
You're a great example of what I'm talking about, people who take vs threads to personal so they start to insult people. You have no right to demand someone to post the manga instead the anime, especially when the thread starter post the anime instead of the manga. You just disrespected everyone using the anime as reference. You need to calm down.

LOL! He was more joking than serious, dude. However, that's very respectable of you to call someone out if they were being a douche.

Obviously, this is the anime and manga versus forum: the thread starter obviously use the Anime in the OP, so it's allowed in this thread.

A word of caution: if the manga contradicts the Anime, the manga is the more correct one and supercedes what is seen in the anime.

Also, I haven't read all of Trigun Maximum, so it'll be awhile before am have teh knowledgez!

Isn't Trigun Maximum totally different from the anime?

Originally posted by No End N Site
Isn't Trigun Maximum totally different from the anime?

lol


No, some of the anime COMES from Trigun Maximum.


http://manga.animea.net/trigun-maximum