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PIS and CIS are off full blood lusted thor vs full blood lusted darkseid who wins

Darkseid should win.

ds

http://www.game-machines.com/consoles/syspics/nintendo-ds.gif

thor's only hope is a PSP i guess...

Can Thor win if he draws a big capital T on his chest, or does it have to be an S?

For years I thought it was pronounced Darkseed and thought it was a really cool name. Until I watched an episode of JLA and found out it was actually pronounced Darkside!

And just sat there and thought "What a crap name"

welcome to the dark side Luke

Darkseid

Originally posted by the ninjak
For years I thought it was pronounced Darkseed and thought it was a really cool name. Until I watched an episode of JLA and found out it was actually pronounced Darkside!

And just sat there and thought "What a crap name"

George Lucas probably read Kirby's work with the New Gods before making Star Wars. I remember some blog a few years back drawing several comparisons.

And having his name pronounced dark seed is awful tbh.

Originally posted by Warlord
thor's only hope is a PSP i guess...

Nah, he needs to use this (GB):

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/7464/942953-database_hardware_gameboy01_super.jpg

^ dude that was awesome
GB lol

Darky

Originally posted by the ninjak
For years I thought it was pronounced Darkseed and thought it was a really cool name. Until I watched an episode of JLA and found out it was actually pronounced Darkside!

And just sat there and thought "What a crap name"

Hah Dark seed... that would be pretty funny. Wouldn't be able to take him seriously.

You guys seriously think Darkside sounds better than Darkseed.

eh....each to their own.

Originally posted by the ninjak
You guys seriously think Darkside sounds better than Darkseed.

eh....each to their own.
Dark Seed sounds like the title of an 80's B-Horror flick.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Dark Seed sounds like the title of an 80's B-Horror flick.

I know cool huh!

It's actually the name of a great Lovecraftian Horror Sci-fi videogame. Where a guy finds a portal to a dark and twisted world inside his house that mirrors ours but in Giger like fashion. Classic.

From what I've seen a blood lusted Superman do to Darkseid, I'd say Thor wins. I've seen Superman literally rip him apart.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Can Thor win if he draws a big capital T on his chest, or does it have to be an S?

Heh.

Probably a split with CIS and PIS off, in all honesty.

Darkseid loses .......him and his stupid name!

Neither Supes or Thor should be able to beat DS. IMO he should be like Thanos but since he appears in a Supes comic he loses because of PIS.

DS should win this fight.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Neither Supes or Thor should be able to beat DS. IMO he should be like Thanos but since he appears in a Supes comic he loses because of PIS.

DS should win this fight.

I agree with that simply because of how DS is often billed as the "ultimate evil" in DC.

But without PIS or CIS, Thor has a much better shot against Darkseid than someone like Superman does.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I agree with that simply because of how DS is often billed as the "ultimate evil" in DC.

But without PIS or CIS, Thor has a much better shot against Darkseid than someone like Superman does.

I agree.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
From what I've seen a blood lusted Superman do to Darkseid, I'd say Thor wins. I've seen Superman literally rip him apart.

what can we expect form this retarded fanboy? not much i guess since thir moron cant understand every time superman beat darkseid it was a PIS and darkseid should be able to beat both superman and thor together

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I agree with that simply because of how DS is often billed as the "ultimate evil" in DC.

But without PIS or CIS, Thor has a much better shot against Darkseid than someone like Superman does.

another retarded thor fanboy that likes to bash on superman and state idiotic crap

Originally posted by karuden
another retarded thor fanboy that likes to bash on superman and state idiotic crap

The epitome of hypocrisy!

Darkseid wins easy.

Darkseid.

Originally posted by karuden
what can we expect form this retarded fanboy? not much i guess since thir moron cant understand every time superman beat darkseid it was a PIS and darkseid should be able to beat both superman and thor together

Am I a Superman fanboy or a Thor fanboy?

Karutard = reported.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Kartard = reported because i am a dirty snitcher that like to kiss the mods ass maybe if i snitch enough they will let me be a mod someday

well if kissing the mods ass is your thing then have fun

Originally posted by karuden
another retarded thor fanboy that likes to bash on superman and state idiotic crap Originally posted by the ninjak
The epitome of hypocrisy! Originally posted by karuden
well if kissing the mods ass is your thing then have fun

what a little punk! here to fill space and piss people off. Hope you had fun son.

Originally posted by karuden
well if kissing the mods ass is your thing then have fun What about just kissing them?

Originally posted by karuden
another retarded thor fanboy that likes to bash on superman and state idiotic crap

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/Supertroll.jpg

Originally posted by karuden
well if kissing the mods ass is your thing then have fun

Scorched.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Dark Seed sounds like the title of an 80's B-Horror flick.

It does, some people have no taste. It also helps that Darkseid was around before Star Wars.

Originally posted by Allankles
It does, some people have no taste. It also helps that Darkseid was around before Star Wars.
Though there's no proof that the Fourth World is the basis for Star Wars. I personally don't think so though there are lots of similarities.

which similarities are u referring 2?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
which similarities are u referring 2?
Death Star looks a bit like Apokolips, Darth Vader's helmet is similar to Darkseid's headpiece. The whole evil father vs good son dynamic is also present. Source=Force, Highfather=Ben Kenobi, Motherbox=R2 D2 (sort of, that's a stretch). Also important to note is that in the case of both Darth Vader and Darkseid they both seek order and while in Vader's case that leads him down the path of the Dark Side in Darkseid's case it leads him to seek out the Anti-Life Equation.

I suppose some of those are "kinda" sorda like the other. I think it's a bit of a stretch though my friend.

Regardless.. IMO Seid is on another level that Thor.. even a bloodlusted Thor.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I suppose some of those are "kinda" sorda like the other. I think it's a bit of a stretch though my friend.

Regardless.. IMO Seid is on another level that Thor.. even a bloodlusted Thor.
You can't deny the similarities between Orion and Luke as it pertains to their relationships with their fathers. The biggest difference is that while Vader is somewhat redeemed at the end Darkseid's fate is to go down clawing at the entire Multiverse.

And I agree. Darkseid written to full power is well above High Heralds and contrary to popular belief the win-loss record between him and Superman is actually in Darkseid's favor.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Neither Supes or Thor should be able to beat DS. IMO he should be like Thanos but since he appears in a Supes comic he loses because of PIS.

DS should win this fight.

Best point imo.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Death Star looks a bit like Apokolips, Darth Vader's helmet is similar to Darkseid's headpiece. The whole evil father vs good son dynamic is also present. Source=Force, Highfather=Ben Kenobi, Motherbox=R2 D2 (sort of, that's a stretch). Also important to note is that in the case of both Darth Vader and Darkseid they both seek order and while in Vader's case that leads him down the path of the Dark Side in Darkseid's case it leads him to seek out the Anti-Life Equation.
Lucas has admitted that both Palpatine and Vader were inspired by the Ming the Merciless (Flash Gordon villain), which he read as a kid. Regarding all that other stuff, I dunno.

And I'm kind of puzzled by the OP. It says bloodlusted...but then says CIS off. So if I go ahead and assume Warriors Madness, but the CIS off so that he can do pretty much anything he's shown...then Thor wins a majority.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Can Thor win if he draws a big capital T on his chest, or does it have to be an S?

I'd have to say Darkseid. I do agree that DS's jobber-aura is often over-played; I also think that Thor's powerset does give him a little better chance in this than Superman's, so he might get a win more than Supes would. If I had to put it in ratio terms, then DS 8+/10 (with Thor's wins likely coming in the form of a pyrrhic victory).

Originally posted by The Nuul
Neither Supes or Thor should be able to beat DS. IMO he should be like Thanos but since he appears in a Supes comic he loses because of PIS.

DS should win this fight. That's only your opinion which basically renders the comics themselves moot which is going down a slipper slope of debating.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
From what I've seen a blood lusted Superman do to Darkseid, I'd say Thor wins. I've seen Superman literally rip him apart. Exactly. If we take Thor at his best I see him tearing into him.

Would Thor be able to absorb or redirect the OB?

If yes he wins, if not he doesn't.

At the very least he should be able to block it with Mjolnir. And tanking it is not out of the question seeing as how Superman has done it before I'm pretty sure, and Thor has tanked some pretty powerful attacks in the past.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
At the very least he should be able to block it with Mjolnir. And tanking it is not out of the question seeing as how Superman has done it before I'm pretty sure, and Thor has tanked some pretty powerful attacks in the past. superman's durability is very different than thor's in nature

superman's has a bioforcefield...thus a majority of attacks don't really actuallly hit him

I thought they retconned the bio-force field into pure durability on Superman's part.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I thought they retconned the bio-force field into pure durability on Superman's part. did they? didn't know that.

I thought that was always how they tried to explain how his uniform doesn't rip

Originally posted by Starscream M
superman's durability is very different than thor's in nature

superman's has a bioforcefield...thus a majority of attacks don't really actuallly hit him

His durability is a combination of his own bio field and his skin density as I understand it, instead of simply his bio field currently. It's the combination of the two that makes him so durable, and Thor's is on his level at least in terms of durability.

And what do you mean a majority of the attacks don't actually hit him? It's been pretty clear, that if something packs enough force it can and will hurt Superman. That's why a punch to the face from say a super strong opponent effects him and can make him bleed.

I think I understand what you're saying, but Superman get's affected by energy attacks or hits not that differently from Thor.

Originally posted by Starscream M
did they? didn't know that.

I think I saw PR or Philo cite a writer's interview where they state something like making Superman's "invulnerability" the product of his own natural durability aside from his bio-field. I could be mistaken though, but that's the general impression I'm under.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His durability is a combination of his own bio field and his skin density as I understand it, instead of simply his bio field currently. It's the combination of the two that makes him so durable, and Thor's is on his level at least in terms of durability.

And what do you mean a majority of the attacks don't actually hit him? It's been pretty clear, that if something packs enough force it can and will hurt Superman. That's why a punch to the face from say a super strong opponent effects him and can make him bleed. well, I think superman's regular durability is about on par if not slightly higher than thors. But on top of that, he has his bioforcefield aura.

I meant that initially, when superman is energized, and his forcefield is on, attacks don't really get past his forcefield.

Only when he gets weakened and his bioaura fades, is when attacks really hit him and hence he starts to bleed and bruise.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think I saw PR or Philo cite a writer's interview where they state something like making Superman's "invulnerability" the product of his own natural durability aside from his bio-field. I could be mistaken though, but that's the general impression I'm under. I agree with that...his bioaura is another layer of protection on top of his already own level of invulnerability.

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, I think superman's regular durability is about on par if not slightly higher than thors. But on top of that, he has his bioforcefield aura.

I meant that initially, when superman is energized, and his forcefield is on, attacks don't really get past his forcefield.

Only when he gets weakened and his bioaura fades, is when attacks really hit him and hence he starts to bleed and bruise.



It's the combination of the two that puts him on Thor's level. And even then, whether Superman is more durable is debatable. Although I do think, cosmetically speaking Superman is more durable, but once you do hurt Superman, Thor fairs better.

If that was the case, then an initial attack from an opponent that Superman would continue to go toe to toe with would not hurt Superman, but that has happened before.

I do agree, Superman is harder to bruise or draw blood from than Thor thanks to the nature of his durability being a combination of his own natural durability and bio aura, but Superman's durability does not seem to be needed to weaken in order for him to be hurt or affected by attacks.

It's not as if he starts out utterly invulnerable or untouchable, and then is needed to be worn down just to actually be hurt. That's not the case even when he fights someone in his class.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

It's not as if he starts out utterly invulnerable or untouchable, and then is needed to be worn down just to actually be hurt. That's not the case even when he fights someone in his class. I think that is the case actually.

I remember the epic Death of Superman saga against Doomsday.

At first, Superman was letting Doomsday get in several punches, which while sent him flying, left no mark whatsover.

Only later, as he began to wear down, did he start showing indications of injury.

Thor doesn't have the benefit of that buffer, so the very first punch could injure thor whereas it prob won't injure superman.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think that is the case actually.

I remember the epic Death of Superman saga against Doomsday.

At first, Superman was letting Doomsday get in several punches, which while sent him flying, left no mark whatsover.

Only later, as he began to wear down, did he start showing indications of injury.

Thor doesn't have the benefit of that buffer, so the very first punch could injure thor whereas it prob won't injure superman.

I think the Doomsday fight is a pretty good example. When Doomsday first punched Superman, Superman stood there and was completely unharmed. Then Doomsday turns around and kicks Superman in the gut sending him flying and he even comments that he doesn't think his ever been hit that hard. It shows, that even back then when it was mostly his bio aura that made him durable as I recall, all you have to do is just hit hard enough. Just because he didn't get bloody doesn't mean that he starts out utterly invulnerable.

I can punch you in the face, and not draw blood initially, but let me keep on punching you in the face, and I'd bleed and bruise you. That's basically what happened with Superman. Eventually he was worn down. At least that's how I understand it with the nature of Superman's power set being as it is currently.

Nah. Superman's been injured by an initial punch/attack before.

Plus, Superman's durability has changed over time. It's gone from being almost completely reliant on his bio aura, to being a mesh of his bio aura and own skin density.

Originally posted by kgkg
Would Thor be able to absorb or redirect the OB?

If yes he wins, if not he doesn't. How can't he when we have seen hv and WW's bracelets do so.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How can't he when we have seen hv and WW's bracelets do so.
Heat vision shouldn't ever even hinder let alone reflect the OE, you really have no conception of PIS do you?

darkseid without much trouble in my opinion.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How can't he when we have seen hv and WW's bracelets do so.

you sure love to use PIS when you need it dont you?i can also bring some PIS and state that if thor was getting beat up by spider-man and the u foes took him then darkseid will just shit stomp him see? it works both ways , but without any PIS darkseid owns him and would own superman and wonder woman as well he is on another level darkseid stomps

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Heat vision shouldn't ever even hinder let alone reflect the OE, you really have no conception of PIS do you? Again, your bias rears it's ugly head Superman has shown the ability to handle Darkseid and beat his head in when he needs to. It isn't pis it's how these two matchup. Originally posted by waffelguy
you sure love to use PIS when you need it dont you?i can also bring some PIS and state that if thor was getting beat up by spider-man and the u foes took him then darkseid will just shit stomp him see? it works both ways , but without any PIS darkseid owns him and would own superman and wonder woman as well he is on another level darkseid stomps That's entirely different and a team of foes taking him by surprise isn't a low showing by any standards.

Thor wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again, your bias rears it's ugly head Superman has shown the ability to handle Darkseid and beat his head in when he needs to. It isn't pis it's how these two matchup.
You ignore the fact that the actual record is in Darkseid's favor. More often than not Darkseid has been shown as the clear superior.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You ignore the fact that the actual record is in Darkseid's favor. More often than not Darkseid has been shown as the clear superior. Not recently. Darkseid's beams have only been shown really effective against Superman as of late when he has someone else to hit them with to trigger Superman's weakness.

This is Thor we are talking about and he can block and redirect his beams every time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again, your bias rears it's ugly head Superman has shown the ability to handle Darkseid and beat his head in when he needs to. It isn't pis it's how these two matchup. That's entirely different and a team of foes taking him by surprise isn't a low showing by any standards.

Thor wins.

what?? how is it different? you are using darkseids low showings to prove thor can beat him and you ignore his ordenery abilities because if we bring them into acount then he shit stomps thor right? so if you want to bring up darkseids low showing which are being owned by superman then fine lets bring up thor being taken out by spider-man , cut by wolverine, taken out by the u foes which are nothing compared to superman and darkseid or hell even getting owned by captain america how about that? if we start to use PIS then thor will lose to half marvel universe dont go in there and darseid stomps

Honestly, Darkseid, always. Thor is no Superman. Though he might be as powerful as Superman he is not a Nexus being of an Nexus world and is not protected from the OE by an higher power.

A healthy at Superman's wins/feats being transferred to Thor or being the reason the latter wins.

DS wins

To me this is all too similar to that ridiculous SM vs Thanos thread. Thor and SM should be stomped by either Thanos or DS unless there is PIS or jobbing envolved.

If we assume that darkseid has simply been depowered and watered down instead of jobbing to SM, Batman and a flight of stairs in recent years, then Thor would win this. But IMO all of that was jobbing and piss poor writing.

Originally posted by 753
To me this is all too similar to that ridiculous SM vs Thanos thread. Thor and SM should be stomped by either Thanos or DS unless there is PIS or jobbing envolved.

If we assume that darkseid has simply been depowered and watered down instead of jobbing to SM, Batman and a flight of stairs in recent years, then Thor would win this. But IMO all of that was jobbing and piss poor writing.
JUst because some people want to lowball DS doesn't mean his PIS showings should be taken at face value.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Honestly, Darkseid, always. Thor is no Superman. Though he might be as powerful as Superman he is not a Nexus being of an Nexus world and is not protected from the OE by an higher power.
It'd be PIS if the OE ever even hits Thor, given Mjolnir's abilities.

I disagree with Rage about Thor being able to tank Darkseid's attacks, simply because Superman was only able to do that to the OB. Not the OE. But again, Thor doesn't need to tank anything. He can block every energy attack. And absorb it. And shoot it back 100 times as powerful. And if 'blood lust Thor' = Warrior's Madness Thor, then Thor's actually stronger than Darkseid and can physically take him apart, too.

This is not an easy match, any way you split it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It'd be PIS if the OE ever even hits Thor, given Mjolnir's abilities.

I disagree with Rage about Thor being able to tank Darkseid's attacks, simply because Superman was only able to do that to the OB. Not the OE. But again, Thor doesn't need to tank anything. He can block every energy attack. And absorb it. And shoot it back 100 times as powerful. And if 'blood lust Thor' = Warrior's Madness Thor, then Thor's actually stronger than Darkseid and can physically take him apart, too.

This is not an easy match, any way you split it.

Why the OE doesn't have to go straight for Thor? I also doubt that Mjolnir could shot back the OE at Darkseid who should be btw (in a PIS free enviroment) be immune to it's effect.
I disagree with WM Thor being stronger. Sunamped Superman was stronger then Darkseid but you still could argue it was PIS. Btw the moment Thor get's into striking range he won't be able to block the OE, locked Arms, shining eyes - Game Over

Originally posted by Enyalus
It'd be PIS if the OE ever even hits Thor, given Mjolnir's abilities.

No it wouldn't. Given the OE's properties (FTL, able to move around corners and through dimensions even) Thor won't be able to block it with Mjolnir, it will be like trying to hit a baseball that's moving at light speed in a zig-zag pattern: impossible unless you're the Flash or someone of similar speed.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
No it wouldn't. Given the OE's properties (FTL, able to move around corners and through dimensions even) Thor won't be able to block it with Mjolnir, it will be like trying to hit a baseball that's moving at light speed in a zig-zag pattern: impossible unless you're the Flash or someone of similar speed.
Mjolnir can draw the beams into the head of the hammer. He doesn't have to be precise about blocking it.

And regarding Batman-Prime's opinion about not being able to absorb it and blast it back because DS is immune to the OE's effect (he's not really immune to the blasts effect, as he's had it deflected at him before and been hurt by it), that's not the way it works. Mjolnir absorbs the power, amplifies it, then launches it back as...I believe...an Anti-Force blast.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
From what I've seen a blood lusted Superman do to Darkseid, I'd say Thor wins. I've seen Superman literally rip him apart.

I've seen that. I've also seen Spiderman beat down Firelord.

It's called PIS.


Darkseid has an entire history of stuff well beyond Superman, since his inception to post crisis stuff.. (Remember, New Gods were officially not affected by the Crisis, even if unofficially that appears not to be the case..)

Some examples off the top of my head:

Used his Omega Effect to erase desaad. And later on a whim, unerase him.

Fired off some Omega Effect seekers that hunted down and hit each of the Forever People, despite their best efforts at escaping. These finders transported them to a different time.

Banished Infinity Man, twice. (Once in the original Kirby Forever People run, and once in a post crisis story.)

In the same post crisis story where Darkseid banishes Infinity Man, Superman claims the beams are too fast and can't escape them.

Darkseid creates Styne using his own powers, who's like an evil twin of Takion with a similar power set.

With only a portion of Darkseids power, Kalibak withstands an Astro Force attack from Orion, and than proceeds to beat him down. Yet when Darkseid enters the scene, and despite just being brought back to life, he easily defeats Kalibak.

In Byrnes "Jack Kirby's Fourth World", Darkseid is said to have defeated multiple Pantheon leaders and absorbed their power, growing stronger every time.

In Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, Superman is unable to stop Apokolips missiles. He's actually pounding uselessly on the things, to no avail. Darkseid sends out some finders, and as Superman marvels in awe how he's never really seen anything else like Darkseids finder beams before, they destroy the missiles.

In the same story, some finder beams hit Cyborg Superman directly, and part of Supermans costume vanishes as a side effect, and hurts him. Later, Superman is stuck in an endless battle with Cyborg animating various tech, seeming unable to finish him off. Darkseid grows impatient, and puts decisive end to the fight.

In Crisis on Infinite Earths, Darkseid sees through the eyes of Alexander Luthor, and sends some of his finders to cause Anti Monitor immense damage, setting him up for Supermans final attack (And since this is Earth 2 Supes we're talking about, I think it's safe to assume Darkseids finder beams did most of the work..)

Of course, there's the famous The Great Darkness Saga, which I highly recommend finding in trade paperback form. I still pop mine out every once in awhile..

The fact GDS is canon again fills me with hope

The Spider-Man fight wasn't really P.I.S.

Those examples are very nice and all but I don't see how it changes the fact that Superman has looked better or made Darkseid his ***** in a few fights.

Off the top of my head Superman has looked superior to Darkseid in Action Comics #856, Apokolips Now #1, Superman/Batman #13 and #42, and Countdown to Final Crisis #49 in direct confrontations.

Superman has his high showings just like Darkseid has as well.

With no jobbing, DS crushes Thor and SM. Thor might do better than SM realistically should as he has mjolnir.

Thor wins.

Thor should win.

Darkseid wins.

Originally posted by 753
With no jobbing, DS crushes Thor and SM. Thor might do better than SM realistically should as he has mjolnir.

At this point, Darkseid has jobbed to Superman so many times that it should be considered as his average.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
At this point, Darkseid has jobbed to Superman so many times that it should be considered as his average. jobbing to superman doesnt mean he jobs to thor

Originally posted by 753
With no jobbing, DS crushes Thor and SM. Thor might do better than SM realistically should as he has mjolnir.

The hammer gives him a shot...

Personally though, I think Darkseid can beat Thor in hand to hand if he wanted to, going by Simonsons run..

^ The fact he could defeat Orion in h/h means that him beating Thor in a brawl isn't far fetched at all.

Just because he doesn't like to get his hands dirty and (logically) prefers to rely on the OE doesn't make him some effete pansy who can't fight.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
At this point, Darkseid has jobbed to Superman so many times that it should be considered as his average.
He's beaten/shown himself superior to Superman more times than the reverse.

Superman would disagree with you. Of course it's no surprise Clark outperforms Orion. He is stronger than him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
At this point, Darkseid has jobbed to Superman so many times that it should be considered as his average.

Twice?

The Byrne thing was kind of jobbing, but it wasn't a fight to the finish.. And as I recall, Byrne even claimed he shortchanged Darkseid, as he's the guy who wrote some of Darkseids greatest feats in Jack Kirby's Fourth World.

Hell, Byrne had Darkseid take out Surfer, and impress Galactus with his Omega Effect, even though it didn't take him out.

Originally posted by Starscream M
jobbing to superman doesnt mean he jobs to thor Thor matches up better against him then Superman because he can negate his omega blasts with his hammer.Originally posted by cdtm
Twice?

The Byrne thing was kind of jobbing, but it wasn't a fight to the finish.. And as I recall, Byrne even claimed he shortchanged Darkseid, as he's the guy who wrote some of Darkseids greatest feats in Jack Kirby's Fourth World.

Hell, Byrne had Darkseid take out Surfer, and impress Galactus with his Omega Effect, even though it didn't take him out. He's beaten him three times.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's beaten/shown himself superior to Superman more times than the reverse.

Count the number of times Darkseid has defeated Superman Post-Crisis.

You are a Darkseid scholar aren't you?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor matches up better against him then Superman because he can negate his omega blasts with his hammer. He's beaten him three times.

Final Crisis doesn't really count, since it wasn't even Darkseids original body.

Or if you're talking about when Byrne had Supes knock Darkseid down with a few punches, that wasn't really a loss as we never got to see the end of the fight.

The amount of damage Supes did to Darkseid is equivilent with what PC Superman did to PC Mongul.. Only, Mongul had a chance to get back up and show Supes how it's done...

Originally posted by Starscream M
jobbing to superman doesnt mean he jobs to thor

Thor has a symbol on his costume now. The belt buckle is a rune symbol. Darkseid loses.

Originally posted by cdtm
Final Crisis doesn't really count, since it wasn't even Darkseids original body. I wasn't counting fc. Actually Superman has beaten him four times and I am still not counting fc.

Originally posted by cdtm
Twice?

The Byrne thing was kind of jobbing, but it wasn't a fight to the finish.. And as I recall, Byrne even claimed he shortchanged Darkseid, as he's the guy who wrote some of Darkseids greatest feats in Jack Kirby's Fourth World.

Hell, Byrne had Darkseid take out Surfer, and impress Galactus with his Omega Effect, even though it didn't take him out.

I count four times. And he was beating that ass in Countdown To Final Crisis #49. Would've won if Darkseid didn't pussy out.

It's actually five if you count Final Crisis.

So we're using Crossovers now?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I count four times. And he was beating that ass in Countdown To Final Crisis #49. Would've won if Darkseid didn't pussy out.

It's actually five if you count Final Crisis.

So we're using Crossovers now? Wasn't it issue 3?

Pretty sure it was #49. You can double check if you want. I don't really care enough to.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I count four times. And he was beating that ass in Countdown To Final Crisis #49. Would've won if Darkseid didn't pussy out.

It's actually five if you count Final Crisis.

So we're using Crossovers now?

We're not using crossovers. I'm assuming one of the losses you're counting is the one Byrne wrote in Action. My point is despite penning Darkseids initial "loss" to Superman, he also wrote that crossover and thought highly enough of Darkseids power to have Galactus compliment 'Seid on how powerful he is, if not powerful enough to defeat him, along with one shotting Surfer. As a crossover it's not proof in and of itself, but it does give an indication of where Byrne places Darkseid on the power totem.

So what are all four losses than?

Originally posted by cdtm
We're not using crossovers. Originally posted by cdtm
My point is despite penning Darkseids initial "loss" to Superman, he also wrote that crossover and thought highly enough of Darkseids power to have Galactus compliment 'Seid on how powerful he is, if not powerful enough to defeat him, along with one shotting Surfer.


No offense, but this is absolutely retarded as shit.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Count the number of times Darkseid has defeated Superman Post-Crisis.

You are a Darkseid scholar aren't you?
*Defeated him with a casual handblast in their first meeting
*Bitchslapped him and forced Supes to retreat in their first chronological meeting
*Defeated him in several blows in OWAW
*Swatted him away in Cosmic Odyssey as if Superman was an annoying pest
*blasted him with a less than full power OE, sending Superman flying at such speed that it took a GL construct and Plastic-Man to slow him down
*Was owning Superman in Superman Confidential with the OE until Infinity Man showed up
*Brought Superman to his knees in the Si'ivaa story with the OE
That's just post crisis and excluding times when DS had amps.

There are also cases of him defeating Superman level beings but you only asked for him defeating Superman.

Seid stomps.

Originally posted by Blanket
No offense, but this is absolutely retarded as shit.

Basically, all I'm saying is Superman beating up Darkseid as written by Byrne is a pathetically low end showing by the man, and contradicts other showings from Jack Kirby's Fourth World, and a few other showings.

His average portrayal of Darkseid is a good deal higher than Supermans, so I wouldn't put much stock in that "loss" he had 'Seid suffer at Supes hands. I mean, you don't think Byrne Superman would even scratch Surfer the way Byrne had 'Seid put him down, do you?

Reject the crossover as evidence, but accept that Byrne having his version of Superman even scratch Darkseid doesn't make much sense, based on how he's written Darkseid on average...

Originally posted by cdtm
We're not using crossovers. I'm assuming one of the losses you're counting is the one Byrne wrote in Action. My point is despite penning Darkseids initial "loss" to Superman, he also wrote that crossover and thought highly enough of Darkseids power to have Galactus compliment 'Seid on how powerful he is, if not powerful enough to defeat him, along with one shotting Surfer. As a crossover it's not proof in and of itself, but it does give an indication of where Byrne places Darkseid on the power totem.

So what are all four losses than?

Yes it is.

*Sigh* Again, a crossover. He writes Superman besting Darkseid but he is powerful to defeat Galactus? Lol. Crossovers allow a great deal of freedom.

Apokolips Now #1, Superman Batman #13 and #42.

Originally posted by cdtm
Basically, all I'm saying is Superman beating up Darkseid as written by Byrne is a pathetically low end showing by the man, and contradicts other showings from Jack Kirby's Fourth World.

His average portrayal of Darkseid is a good deal higher than Supermans, so I wouldn't put much stock in that "loss" he had 'Seid suffer at Supes hands. And your argument as to why this is is this:

"I'm not using crossovers, but... this happened in a crossover."

You can see where that sounds ridiculous.

What happens in a crossover is non-canon for a reason.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes it is.

*Sigh* Again, a crossover. He writes Superman besting Darkseid but he is powerful to defeat Galactus? Lol. Crossovers allow a great deal of freedom.

Apokolips Now #1, Superman Batman #13 and #42.
The first case was awful PIS, in the second Darkseid was dominating the fight until the fight passed close to the sun and Superman got a sun amp.

Originally posted by Blanket
And your argument as to why this is is this:

"I'm not using crossovers, but... this happened in a crossover."

You can see where that sounds ridiculous.

What happens in a crossover is non-canon for a reason.

Actually, rejecting crossovers out of hand doesn't make much sense, when we already reject bad writing as bad writing.. There ARE good crossovers with proper portrayals.

But as the rules are the rules, forget the crossover than. I was simply trying to point out how Byrne usually writes his Darkseid, and how it contridicts one of the key "wins" of Superman.. (And personally, I think that crossover was a well written one. Well, except for Orion getting shortchanged..)

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes it is.

*Sigh* Again, a crossover. He writes Superman besting Darkseid but he is powerful to defeat Galactus? Lol. Crossovers allow a great deal of freedom.

Apokolips Now #1, Superman Batman #13 and #42.

Read Jack Kirby's Fourth World, and see how Byrne normally writes Darkseid.

Really, given his history of writing 'Seid along with writing one of the weakest Supermen in history, what he wrote between Supes and Darkseid makes no sense.

Originally posted by cdtm
Actually, rejecting crossovers out of hand doesn't make much sense, when we already reject bad writing as bad writing.. There ARE good crossovers with proper portrayals.

But as the rules are the rules, forget the crossover than. I was simply trying to point out how Byrne usually writes his Darkseid, and how it contridicts one of the key "wins" of Superman.. (And personally, I think that crossover was a well written one. Well, except for Orion getting shortchanged..) It's non-canon. Of course it should be refected regardless of writing.

"The crossover was well written, except when Orion got destroyed."

There you go with your dubious disclaimers again.

Originally posted by Blanket
It's non-canon. Of course it should be refected regardless of writing.

"The crossover was well written, except when Orion got destroyed."

There you go with your dubious disclaimers again.

JLA/Avengers is considered canon, and it's still rejected.

And yes, it was well written except when Orion got destroyed? So?

Originally posted by cdtm
JLA/Avengers is considered canon, and it's still rejected.

And yes, it was well written except when Orion got destroyed? So? Considered canon to DC, not Marvel.

So it wasn't well written? SS vs Orion was the only real battle of the book...

Originally posted by Blanket
Considered canon to DC, not Marvel.

So it wasn't well written? SS vs Orion was the only real battle of the book...

Well, there wasn't anything glaringly wrong with it.. Characters seemed fairly well written, for the most part. Galactus vs Apokolips was really well done, IMO. Given about as much trouble as you'd expect, while pressing relentlessly forward...

I probably wouldn't have had much problem with Surfer actually beating Orion if it wasn't so... one sided. He couldn't even get a break with hand to hand combat, his specialty.

At the worst, you'd think Orion could match Obliterator's performance, but the Astro Force didn't really hurt Surfer.

But outside of that, it was a fun read. Not perfect, but how many stories are?

Without CIS or PIS, Darkseid should be at his Silver Age levels and should return to an unbeaten status in his true form.

So, all of that said, Darkseid WITHOUT CIS OR PIS should be able to take the entire Avengers no sweat, let alone just Thor.

Darkseid with his CIS and/or PIS turned back on, and I cannot be sure, I guess that depends on how you think Thor stacks against Supes.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
*Defeated him with a casual handblast in their first meeting
*Bitchslapped him and forced Supes to retreat in their first chronological meeting
*Defeated him in several blows in OWAW
*Swatted him away in Cosmic Odyssey as if Superman was an annoying pest
*blasted him with a less than full power OE, sending Superman flying at such speed that it took a GL construct and Plastic-Man to slow him down
*Was owning Superman in Superman Confidential with the OE until Infinity Man showed up
*Brought Superman to his knees in the Si'ivaa story with the OE
That's just post crisis and excluding times when DS had amps.

There are also cases of him defeating Superman level beings but you only asked for him defeating Superman.

- Issue? If it's a straight up win, I'll give you it, however looking at the other examples I'd like to see it for myself.

- You mean he defeated a weary Superman.

- ? Superman flies at Darkseid and Darkseid punches Superman while he was in the air flying directly at him. He did no harm to Superman at all.

- Superman Confidential #10 right? Superman stood there and tanked a constant barrage of Darkseid's Omega Beams and was fine afterwards. And this was after Clark had spent the last issue being blasted and attacked by the New Gods, including Orion and his Astro Force. And he had just fought and defeated Mantis.

This is a good showing for Clark.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/th_Darkfail1.jpghttp://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/th_Darkfail2.jpghttp://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/th_Darkfail3.jpghttp://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/th_Darkfail4.jpghttp://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/th_Darkfail5.jpg

- Should I count all the times Superman sends Darkseid flying? And he was unharmed was he not?

- As I recall, Darkseid was bathing mullet Superman with a constant stream of Omega Beams and Superman was standing there, tanking and resisting it (To Darkseid's surprise as not even Orion could.). He wasn't on his knees as I recall, but he did fall over a bit to the side once Darkseid stopped attacking him but Clark was undamaged.

Nothing you've mentioned (Besides the first encounter apparently.) is as concrete as the straight up beat downs Superman has given Darkseid. And I notice that a great deal of these examples are before the noticeable rise in Superman's power that took some time after his death I believe. As time went on, Superman has looked better and better against Darkseid as far as I can tell until the point he calls for quarter.

Looking at how many times Clark has tanked the Omega Beams/Effect (Noteably Adventures Of #595 for one where he shrugs 5 blasts to the chest. He didn't seem to be affected by the attack at all at one point. He also once again blocks it with Heat Vision.) I'm surprised people view it as more formidable than Heat Vision against beings like Superman or Thor at this point.

Hercules > Galactus = Thor > Superman/Silver Surfer > Stairs > Darkseid

Darkseid handled Lobo infinitely easier than Superman ever did... Lobo actually hurt his hands against stoneface's head, before getting wiped out.

Not a "direct" competition between Superman and Darkseid, but sometimes direct confrontations aren't the best way to judge who beats whom.. If that's all we went by, Martian Manhunter doesn't have a chance in hell against Supes, even though with his power set he should be one of the most formidable characters in DC...

Originally posted by cdtm
Darkseid handled Lobo infinitely easier than Superman ever did... Lobo actually hurt his hands against stoneface's head, before getting wiped out.

Not a "direct" competition between Superman and Darkseid, but sometimes direct confrontations aren't the best way to judge who beats whom.. If that's all we went by, Martian Manhunter doesn't have a chance in hell against Supes, even though with his power set he should be one of the most formidable characters in DC...

It's not as if Lobo has been known to fluctuate a fair bit depending on the comic....which I'm pretty sure is the case.

Either way, direct comparisons beat indirect comparisons every time.

Martian Manhunter wouldn't stand a chance in hell against a Superman who's unlocking his mental blocks in a head to head fight. Superman simply is able to take things a level beyond John.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's not as if Lobo has been known to fluctuate a fair bit depending on the comic....which I'm pretty sure is the case.

Either way, direct comparisons beat indirect comparisons every time.

Martian Manhunter wouldn't stand a chance in hell against a Superman who's unlocking his mental blocks in a head to head fight. Superman simply is able to take things a level beyond John.

With intangibility and TP he would

Hence why I said a head to head to fight. Unfortunately John is one of the most C.I.S. rendered characters out there. At least more so than other characters.

Using head to head becomes problematic, when there's ample examples outside of the head to head that prove, for example, that heat vision shouldn't really block the Omega Effect.

And especially if the head to head includes a character that's been progressively watered down over the years, even as his competition was amped up (Not to mention the mental block business... Although, if you subscribe to Loebs mental block excuse, what does that say about Supermans minus the blocks vs guys like Captain Marvel, who he's always been nearly par with..?)

There's a reason why people refer to Darkseid of the last decade or so as "Jobberseid"...

Originally posted by cdtm
Using head to head becomes problematic, when there's ample examples outside of the head to head that prove, for example, that heat vision shouldn't really block the Omega Effect.

And especially if the head to head includes a character that's been progressively watered down over the years, even as his competition was amped up (Not to mention the mental block business... Although, if you subscribe to Loebs mental block excuse, what does that say about Supermans minus the blocks vs guys like Captain Marvel, who he's always been nearly par with..?)

There's a reason why people refer to Darkseid of the last decade or so as "Jobberseid"...

Except head to head are the best examples. Especially in a case like this where Superman's been kicking Darkseid's ass for some time. How many times has he used Heat Vision to block the Omega Effect/Beams? Twice or three times? I don't keep track anymore.

Hence why you have scenes such as when an Eclipso possessed Superman was taking it to Captain Marvel.

Captain Marvel and Superman being peers in strength is something that's set pretty solidly in DC history. However, Superman has looked a bit superior to him in fights where he has been possessed.

Darkseid sucks. I know. No need to try and convince me.

Anyways, Thor tanks the Omega Beams/Effect and beats that ass.

We will continue this tomorrow.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain Marvel and Superman being peers in strength is something that's set pretty solidly in DC history. However, Superman has looked a bit superior to him in fights where he has been possessed.

Only Captain Marvel > Superman. uhuh

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The first case was awful PIS, in the second Darkseid was dominating the fight until the fight passed close to the sun and Superman got a sun amp. No, Darkseid wasn't he was taken off planet to the sun not like they just happened to be near a sun. Do you think the sun is a couple of blocks away from the farmhouse? That's how badly Superman broke him to take him off earth to a sun. That's called owning him.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Pretty sure it was #49. You can double check if you want. I don't really care enough to. They were numbered in reverse.

I heard there was a brief encounter between Thor and Darkseid in a crossover.

Is this true?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I heard there was a brief encounter between Thor and Darkseid in a crossover.

Is this true? In marvel vs. dc.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
*Defeated him with a casual handblast in their first meeting
*Bitchslapped him and forced Supes to retreat in their first chronological meeting
*Defeated him in several blows in OWAW
*Swatted him away in Cosmic Odyssey as if Superman was an annoying pest
*blasted him with a less than full power OE, sending Superman flying at such speed that it took a GL construct and Plastic-Man to slow him down
*Was owning Superman in Superman Confidential with the OE until Infinity Man showed up
*Brought Superman to his knees in the Si'ivaa story with the OE
That's just post crisis and excluding times when DS had amps.

There are also cases of him defeating Superman level beings but you only asked for him defeating Superman.

And cases of him defeating beings a good deal above Superman. Agogg was a powerhouse who Orion and Lightray got solidly owned by, and Darkseid casually wipes him out..

There's also that time Supes got possessed by Dominus, and started fighting the entire JLA. He pretty much owned every character he came across, with the notable exception of Orion, who held his own. Darkseid is greater than or equal to Orion.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They were numbered in reverse.

...Okay.

Hmmmm.... God that can create life from nothing or god that can shoot lazorz?

I think I'm going with DS.

DS

Thor is the icing on the cake against Darkseid. Thor is BUILT to beat someone like Darkseid. Darkseid energy attacks would fail against Thor since it is pretty obvious that it will be absorbed. With that said, when Darkseid eyeblast doesnt work, he tend to go H2H with his opponents and I just cant see Darky prevailing against a Thor that is using that hammer to crush his face.

i gatta say darkseid on this one.

Thor pounds DS's eyes out and makes him squeel like a piggy.

DS wins this one handily. High level TP to bog Thor's mind down, He de powers Thor by asborbing the Godly energies of Thor and then turns him into a kid. Or he sends Thor to the end of time where nothing but Entropy exist. Can't block the finders.

Thor just killed Void....he wins.

Originally posted by Estacado
Thor just killed Void....he wins.
DS killed Batman. He wins.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor is the icing on the cake against Darkseid. Thor is BUILT to beat someone like Darkseid. Darkseid energy attacks would fail against Thor since it is pretty obvious that it will be absorbed. With that said, when Darkseid eyeblast doesnt work, he tend to go H2H with his opponents and I just cant see Darky prevailing against a Thor that is using that hammer to crush his face.
Fcuk yeah!!
I mean its not like Ds could do anything besides the eye blasting stuff.....

Originally posted by lightyeargee
DS wins this one handily. High level TP to bog Thor's mind down, He de powers Thor by asborbing the Godly energies of Thor and then turns him into a kid. Or he sends Thor to the end of time where nothing but Entropy exist. Can't block the finders. When has Darkseid depowered anyone he didn't give their powers too?

Originally posted by quanchi112
When has Darkseid depowered anyone he didn't give their powers too?

Time Trapper, Mordru, Firestorm, Infinity Man,Secret, all come to mind.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
Time Trapper, Mordru, Firestorm, Infinity Man,Secret, all come to mind. Not canon to current Seid and he absorbed their powers not depowered them.

He also pulled the professor out of firestorm iirc.

Infinity Man, when?

Darkseid takes this easily

Darkseid>Thanos>Surfer>Thor=Superman.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Darkseid takes this easily

Darkseid>Thanos>Surfer>Thor=Superman. Based on which showings?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on which showings? That darkseid has killed new gods easily + he has OE/OS and those(theoretically)can count as an insta win.It's cheap but true considering it can make it so you never existed.The thanos is obviously above surfer.I believe surfer is slightly above thor and thor=supes.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
That darkseid has killed new gods easily + he has OE/OS and those(theoretically)can count as an insta win.It's cheap but true considering it can make it so you never existed.The thanos is obviously above surfer.I believe surfer is slightly above thor and thor=supes. You need proof of this not just blanket statements and we have seen it fail against Superman and Doomsday and Thor can deflect it just like WW.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You need proof of this not just blanket statements and we have seen it fail against Superman and Doomsday and Thor can deflect it just like WW.
No one has ever blocked/outrun/or escaped the Omega Sanction.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
No one has ever blocked/outrun/or escaped the Omega Sanction. Who has it beaten?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who has it beaten?
Mr Miracle and Batman. And before you (understandably) point out the difference between them and Thor I'd point out that the way the OS is portrayed its less of a energy attack and more of an auto-hit that attacks the target's spirit.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Mr Miracle and Batman. And before you (understandably) point out the difference between them and Thor I'd point out that the way the OS is portrayed its less of a energy attack and more of an auto-hit that attacks the target's spirit. So because it takes them out it suddenly takes anyone out? You need more than this to go on especially since these characters don't have access to war hammers with greater power showings than Darkseid himself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You need proof of this not just blanket statements and we have seen it fail against Superman and Doomsday and Thor can deflect it just like WW. And those writers obviously didn't portray it the way it is.In KMC rules characters fight to the best of their abilites.Thus the OE would work to the best of its abilites and not just be portrayed as eye beams.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
And those writers obviously didn't portray it the way it is.In KMC rules characters fight to the best of their abilites.Thus the OE would work to the best of its abilites and not just be portrayed as eye beams. Those writers portrayed it as they saw it you are saying some showings count while others don't which is the mark of bias.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Those writers portrayed it as they saw it you are saying some showings count while others don't which is the mark of bias.
Like you declaring canon works non canon?