Superman(Sundipped) VS Thor( Warrior Madness)

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LordofBrooklyn
Superman- Sundipped

VS

Thor- Warrior Madness

Son of Odin or The son of Jor-El?

Parmaniac
Isn't Warrior madness Thor going nuts but insanely strong?

Q99
Son of Jor-El. Sundipping IMO gives Superman a lot more than 10x power. He's crazy strong, and to an extent a bit crazy, when supercharged like that.

batdude123
Superman.

Don Corleone
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Isn't Warrior madness Thor going nuts but insanely strong?

No he just doesn't hold back. Normal Thor holds back for fear of killing.

xJLxKing
Superman wins.

Thor is blood thirsty in this fight(WM). He loses the ability to think clearly. This mean it will turn into a nice slug-fest. One slugfest he can't win

zeel
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman wins.

Thor is blood thirsty in this fight(WM). He loses the ability to think clearly. This mean it will turn into a nice slug-fest. One slugfest he can't win


have to agree strength is not the issue here however depending on the sundipp supes may be weaker or stronger then WM thor. this version of thor is just to mentally challenged.


supes for the win.

Bentley
Supes should win mostly by having a clear mind during the whole match and the speed advantage.

Batman-Prime
Superman

Omega Vision
Superman, his speed is the real killer, not to mention the fact that he retains his intellect (in fact it seems a bit enhanced to me in OWAW).

Spire
Superman easily.

Enyalus
Originally posted by batdude123
Superman.
Since we're getting along tonight, I'm going to agree with you.

Also, because you're right.

Rage.Of.Olympus
How much stronger is Sundipped Superman? Thor can apparently get up to 10x stronger currently.

Chances are this ends up being a slug fest. I'd give it to Superman even if Thor is physically stronger which I believe is the case. Superman's durability and clearer head gives him the win in my opinion.

To be honest a regular Thor would fair a lot better in this situation. Energy absorption is a real *****.

the ninjak
Supes Baby!

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How much stronger is Sundipped Superman? Thor can apparently get up to 10x stronger currently.

Chances are this ends up being a slug fest. I'd give it to Superman even if Thor is physically stronger which I believe is the case. Superman's durability and clearer head gives him the win in my opinion.

To be honest a regular Thor would fair a lot better in this situation. Energy absorption is a real *****.

All stat boost > Strength stat boost.

Also, belt of strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>warrior madness

Its true.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
All stat boost > Strength stat boost.

Also, belt of strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>warrior madness

Its true.

erm

I gave Superman the win fool. His durability increases as well which is the main reason I give him this.

?

celeyhyga17
Supes more often than not..
I'm goin 7/10

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
erm

I gave Superman the win fool. His durability increases as well which is the main reason I give him this.

?

I know fool.

Just pointing out that Supes gets boosted entirely.

In other words, it coming down to a slugfest is laughable.... unless by slugfest you mean one superspeed punch to the back of Thor's head ko's him.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
I know fool.

Just pointing out that Supes gets boosted entirely.

In other words, it coming down to a slugfest is laughable.... unless by slugfest you mean one superspeed punch to the back of Thor's head ko's him.

no expression

Superman in Sun Dipped mode seemed to be all about raw power. He was just plowing through Braniac's weapons and was all about raw power and strength. I didn't see him zipping around at super speed so I really don't see how this ending up being a slug fest is laughable at all really.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
no expression

Superman in Sun Dipped mode seemed to be all about raw power. He was just plowing through Braniac's weapons and was all about raw power and strength. I didn't see him zipping around at super speed so I really don't see how this ending up being a slug fest is laughable at all really.

So your argument is even though Superman is powered by sun which endows him with strength, speed, HV, etc., after Superman 'submersed himself' in the source of his power, only his strength and durability was increased, and for some strange illogical reason none of his other powers(which the sun gives him) increased at all.

Further, your reasoning/proof/argument/delusion is that he only moved warworld, so it must be true.

crylaugh

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
So your argument is even though Superman is powered by sun which endows him with strength, speed, HV, etc., after Superman 'submersed himself' in the source of his power, only his strength and durability was increased, and for some strange illogical reason none of his other powers(which the sun gives him) increased at all.

Further, your reasoning/proof/argument/delusion is that he only moved warworld, so it must be true.

crylaugh

Do you have reading comprehension problems? Where did I say his speed was not increased? I said he did not go zipping around using his super speed. He relied on his raw power and strength as he simply plowed through anything he met. What the hell is so difficult to understand? confused

Warworld is as big as Pluto was it not? The only reason that's impressive considering he was apparently amped was because of it's own engines working against him. And that definitely relies more on his flight and strength than it does on him simply having super speed.

You keep trying for some reason to come off correct while insulting me and in turn end up sounding like a condensing a-hole who just makes himself look stupid.

the ninjak
You guys agree then fight anywayweird

Must be some kind of masochistic foreplay.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do you have reading comprehension problems? Where did I say his speed was not increased? I said he did not go zipping around using his super speed. He relied on his raw power and strength as he simply plowed through anything he met. What the hell is so difficult to understand? confused

Warworld is as big as Pluto was it not? The only reason that's impressive considering he was apparently amped was because of it's own engines working against him. And that definitely relies more on his flight and strength than it does on him simply having super speed.

You keep trying for some reason to come off correct while insulting me and in turn end up sounding like a condensing a-hole who just makes himself look stupid.

1. Its obvious that was what you were implying. If you want to switch it up and go with Superman flies into Thor and kills that's fine too. thumb up

2. If you recognize that Superman is boosted entirely how in hell does it become a slugfest?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You keep trying for some reason to come off correct while insulting me and in turn end up sounding like a condensing a-hole who just makes himself look stupid.

Lol... irony...

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
1. Its obvious that was what you were implying. If you want to switch it up and go with Superman flies into Thor and kills that's fine too. thumb up

2. If you recognize that Superman is boosted entirely how in hell does it become a slugfest?

1) No that was not what I was implying at all. No where did I ever say that Superman's speed was not amped. Do not put words in my mouth. I simply stated that he relied on his strength and power more than he did on speed which was the case. I don't see C.I.S off do you? Lol. thumb down

2) Because C.I.S is still in effect. What is so difficult to understand pray tell? Superman in that mindset was a brute. Ripping shit apart. He didn't speed blitz anyone or use his speed for anything more than travel as I recall.

Originally posted by Spire
Lol... irony...

I'd thought you'd like that.

But seriously, you need to hop off my dick. Its like you argue with me for the sake of arguing and it's getting annoying.

Spire
Originally posted by the ninjak
You guys agree then fight anywayweird

Must be some kind of masochistic foreplay.

There is more to it than that.

He knows he can't give Thor the win. So instead he put on his denial hat and is trying to downplay things.

Rage.Of.Olympus
facepalm

Even though I clearly said Superman would win, his still not satisfied because I said it would end up being a slug fest which is more than likely.

Man, you Superman fans, are worse than Hulk fans.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1) No that was not what I was implying at all. No where did I ever say that Superman's speed was not amped. Do not put words in my mouth. I simply stated that he relied on his strength and power more than he did on speed which was the case. I don't see C.I.S off do you? Lol. thumb down

Sorry, but the fact that you think its a slugfest says otherwise.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

2) Because C.I.S is still in effect. What is so difficult to understand pray tell? Superman in that mindset was a brute. Ripping shit apart. He didn't speed blitz anyone or use his speed for anything more than travel as I recall.

This isn't herochat where Superman is at whatever exact level/showing needed to lose. CIS has nothing to do with full capacity.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I'd thought you'd like that.

But seriously, you need to hop off my dick. Its like you argue with me for the sake of arguing and it's getting annoying.

no expression

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
facepalm

Even though I clearly said Superman would win, his still not satisfied because I said it would end up being a slug fest which is more than likely.

Man, you Superman fans, are worse than Hulk fans.

Even when its ridiculiously obvious who wins, how and why, you still put on your denial hat.

0% chance it comes down to a slugfest.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
Sorry, but the fact that you think its a slugfest says otherwise.

no expression

So just because I don't think Superman speed blitzes Thor and simply uses his raw power and strength which is exactly what he did during that arc, somehow translates into me thinking that Superman's speed isn't increased either?

Originally posted by Spire
This isn't herochat where Superman is at whatever exact level/showing needed to lose. CIS has nothing to do with full capacity.

No it's not Herochat but this isn't CBR either, where speed is the most important factor ever. No but it's in play just like full capacity is.

Not too long ago even Raoul got into an argument with a poster where he clarified that Superman would mostly slug it out, which is exactly what Superman does.

All Superman did in that arc was rely on his raw power and strength which is what he will do here. For whatever reason, you got into your head that somehow Superman is going to be pulling blitzes where the chances are very low in this situation unless C.I.S is off, which in that case I agree, speed would be a key factor. Otherwise, even with full capacity, more than likely this would end up being a slug fest.

Superman speed blitzing in this state is as viable as Thor draining him of all of his power in his own state.

Originally posted by Spire
no expression

yes

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
Even when its ridiculiously obvious who wins, how and why, you still put on your denial hat.

0% chance it comes down to a slugfest.

I'm in denial because I said it would come down to a slug fest? Christ you're an idiot.

Okay, post scans of Superman using his speed to blitz someone in combat in the state he was in during Our Worlds At War. Heck, post scans of him using his speed for something more other than a means for travel which is all I recall him doing with his speed.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
no expression

So just because I don't think Superman speed blitzes Thor and simply uses his raw power and strength which is exactly what he did during that arc, somehow translates into me thinking that Superman's speed isn't increased either?



No it's not Herochat but this isn't CBR either, where speed is the most important factor ever. No but it's in play just like full capacity is.

Not too long ago even Raoul got into an argument with a poster where he clarified that Superman would mostly slug it out, which is exactly what Superman does.

Superman speed blitzing in this state is as viable as Thor draining him of all of his power in his own state.



yes

And you know what? That's absolutely fine. All I stated was a superspeed punch.

the ninjak
It is Mardi Gras so I won't pick on you two lovebirdsstrawberries

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm in denial because I said it would come down to a slug fest? Christ you're an idiot.

Okay, post scans of Superman using his speed to blitz someone in combat in the state he was in during Our Worlds At War. Heck, post scans of him using his speed for something more other than a means for travel which is all I recall him doing with his speed.

facepalm

Yes you are in denial because you think it would come down to a slugfest.

Also, you're doing a really shitty job trying to wiggle your way out of it by trying to throw in the whole speedblitz argument.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
And you know what? That's absolutely fine. All I stated was a superspeed punch.

Eh? I posted Superman wins, and you with your man crush on me somehow thought it was necessary to start an argument where one not needed to exist by stating that it being a slug fest is laughable and Superman one shots Thor with a super speed punch to the back of the head except it being a slug fest is the most likely scenario. You went on further pulling shit out of your ass by claiming that I stated Superman's speed would not be amped either, which I never once said.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
facepalm

Yes you are in denial because you think it would come down to a slugfest.

Also, you're doing a really shitty job trying to wiggle your way out of it by trying to throw in the whole speedblitz argument.

You mean it being a slug fest like it almost always ends up being with Superman, even against bricks? On top of everything else, this Superman seemed to rely on his strength and raw power more than usual compared to how he was acting previously in Our Worlds at War speed blitzing Imperiex Probes and the rest after the Mongul training. In this state, his more like a flying brick than anything. At least from what we've actually seen. He doesn't actually need to rely on anything else.

I'm not trying to wiggle my way out of anything. I simply asked you to post scans or instances of this Superman blitzing with his speed etc. since that's what you claimed. Superman ending this fight with one super speed punch to the back of Thor's head.

If you think Superman will blitz, then you might as well accept the fact that Thor will instantly drain all of his energy thus winning. Which is about as likely as a speed blitz from Clark in this state.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Eh? I posted Superman wins, and you with your man crush on me somehow thought it was necessary to start an argument where one not needed to exist by stating that it being a slug fest is laughable and Superman one shots Thor with a super speed punch to the back of the head except it being a slug fest is the most likely scenario. You went on further pulling shit out of your ass by claiming that I stated Superman's speed would not be amped either, which I never once said.

facepalm

You did imply that and you were trying to limit Superman to only strength and durability mattering and its somehow a slugfest.

You didn't imply it and you agree its not a slugfest and this fight is lopsided with 1 or 2 really strong really fast punches ending this fight.

Which is it?

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You mean it being a slug fest like it almost always ends up being with Superman, even against bricks? On top of everything else, this Superman seemed to rely on his strength and raw power more than usual compared to how he was acting previously in Our Worlds at War speed blitzing Imperiex Probes and the rest after the Mongul training. In this state, his more like a flying brick than anything. At least from what we've actually seen. He doesn't actually need to rely on anything else.

I'm not trying to wiggle my way out of anything. I simply asked you to post scans or instances of this Superman blitzing with his speed etc. since that's what you claimed. Superman ending this fight with one super speed punch to the back of Thor's head.

If you think Superman will blitz, then you might as well accept the fact that Thor will instantly drain all of his energy thus winning. Which is about as likely as a speed blitz from Clark in this state.

This is sad.

A fast punch isn't a blitz.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
facepalm

You did imply that and you were trying to limit Superman to only strength and durability mattering and its somehow a slugfest.

You didn't imply it and you agree its not a slugfest and this fight is lopsided with 1 or 2 really strong really fast punches ending this fight.

Which is it?

Neither.

I'm not limiting him. It's he who limited himself as it was he who relied on solely his strength and durability in that state. Hence why chances are it would be a slug fest. More so than Superman in his regular state in my opinion.

In conclusion this is a slug fest, with Superman having the ability to use his super speed but not relying on it which is EXACTLY what he did. It's the same case for Thor being able to drain Superman but not using it.

In these mind sets they seem to be more brick like than usual.

What exactly do you not understand?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
This is sad.

A fast punch isn't a blitz.

erm

You stated that this would not be a slug fest, and Clark would end it with a super speed punch to the back of Thor's head. Sounded like a blitz as you made it seem Thor would not even let off an attack, before Superman circles around him (They start .5 kilometers away and facing each other according to the rules.) and puts him down.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Neither.

I'm not limiting him. It's he who limited himself as it was he who relied on solely his strength and durability in that state. Hence why chances are it would be a slug fest. More so than Superman in his regular state in my opinion.

In conclusion this is a slug fest, with Superman having the ability to use his super speed but not relying on it which is EXACTLY what he did. It's the same case for Thor being able to drain Superman but not using it.

In these mind sets they seem to be more brick like than usual.

What exactly do you not understand?

Oh ok, Superman can't throw a fast punch.

Oh, and Thor can't drain him because Thor is unconscious.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
erm

You stated that this would not be a slug fest, and Clark would end it with a super speed punch to the back of Thor's head. Sounded like a blitz as you made it seem Thor would not even let off an attack, before Superman circles around him (They start .5 kilometers away and facing each other according to the rules.) and puts him down.

He could/can/and will punch him in the back of the head without blitzing.

It was more of me saying he is fast and strong.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
He could/can/and will punch him in the back of the head without blitzing.

It was more of me saying he is fast and strong.

I don't see "Spire's" Sun dipped Superman in the thread title so I doubt that will happen at the very least for the majority of the time.

So they start out .5 kilometers away from each other and in each others line of site, and you claiming that the battle would consist of Superman circling around punching Thor in the back of the head at super speed, was not you claiming he would blitz him?

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't see "Spire's" Sun dipped Superman in the thread title so I doubt that will happen at the very least for the majority of the time.

So they start out .5 kilometers away from each other and in each others line of site, and you claiming that the battle would consist of Superman circling around punching Thor in the back of the head at super speed, was not you claiming he would blitz him?

I don't see "Rages" Sun dripped Superman where they fight for majority and Superman can't punch fast..

It was me saying Superman will use speed.

A 'Superman blitz' is Supes using all he has got. Punching fast in a fight due to full capacity is not a blitz.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
I don't see "Rages" Sun dripped Superman where they fight for majority and Superman can't punch fast..

It was me saying Superman will use speed.

A 'Superman blitz' is Supes using all he has got. Punching fast in a fight due to full capacity is not a blitz.

laughing out loud Back tracking.

I never said Superman could not punch fast. I just didn't agree with what you said.

Then you should simply have said that Superman will use his speed. You started acting all condensing and laughing at the notion that this would be a slug fest which is exactly what it would be taking into account how Thor and Superman were and then acted as if super speed was the game ending factor, then acted as if a super speed punch to the back of the head would all that would happen in the fight.

Since when does a blitz mean that Superman will use their speed to it's upper limits. I've seen Flash blitz Captain Cold easily. He wasn't using all his got. He simply blitzed him.

There's a difference between punching fast and what you said Superman will be capable of doing.

Enyalus
Sundipped Supes isn't dropping WM Thor in anywhere close to two punches...

spinetch
i can see superman speedblits thor because this is something he is capable to do and it doesnt matter if he used that technique while sun diped or not because when we debate characters we are talking about there abilities and what they can do and while speedblitzing is one of his posibble abilities then superman can use it and will win

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Enyalus
Sundipped Supes isn't dropping WM Thor in anywhere close to two punches...

Nah, it's obvious that he does. To say otherwise just proves your a Thor fanboy who low balls Superman at every single chance that he gets. Oh and Thor is as slow as a turtle, and Superman would blitz him every single time.

It's the truth.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Serious question though, how much stronger do you think the Sun dipped Superman was Enyalus?

Enyalus
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Serious question though, how much stronger do you think the Sun dipped Superman was Enyalus?
Strong enough to move a planet weighing less than the mass of Luna, our moon.

Obviously that makes him uber strong.

spinetch
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh and Thor is as slow as a turtle, and Superman would blitz him every single time.



no one said that thor is slow but he is not in sups league when it comes down to speed and superman is able to speedblitz him due to that fact just as flash is able to speedblitz superman dont get all emotional because thor is inferior in that category and if you think thor can match superman in speed then YOU ARE nothing but a low fanboy

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
laughing out loud Back tracking.

I never said Superman could not punch fast. I just didn't agree with what you said.

Then you should simply have said that Superman will use his speed. You started acting all condensing and laughing at the notion that this would be a slug fest which is exactly what it would be taking into account how Thor and Superman were and then acted as if super speed was the game ending factor, then acted as if a super speed punch to the back of the head would all that would happen in the fight.

Since when does a blitz mean that Superman will use their speed to it's upper limits. I've seen Flash blitz Captain Cold easily. He wasn't using all his got. He simply blitzed him.

There's a difference between punching fast and what you said Superman will be capable of doing.

If I was arguing Superman would blitz him, I would have said "Superman blitzes him"...

Tactics are limited by CIS, like God Blast, T-vo... not punching really hard and really fast.

And, yes I still think it is laughable that you think it comes down to a slugfest. Superman punching really hard and really fast ends this.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Enyalus
Strong enough to move a planet weighing less than the mass of Luna, our moon.

Obviously that makes him uber strong.

Your just a Superman hater. It doesn't matter that it wasn't an impressive strength feat in retrospect since he was amped, or the fact that Thor is apparently 10 times stronger, which is a very, very significant jump in strength, Superman is still on another level. If you don't agree you're a ***** made hater (Herochat joke.).

Spire
Originally posted by Enyalus
Strong enough to move a planet weighing less than the mass of Luna, our moon.

Obviously that makes him uber strong.

Totally!

And that's not even taking into consideration the engines that move the goddamn thing through space at lightspeed were acting against him.

spinetch
yet i dont think that 1 punch from superman will end the fight because thor got a crazy damage soak while superman punches were never THAT strong in the first place hell he was fighting for days with doomsday his punches arent that hard for thor if something i think if they go punch for punch they are equel with a slight edge towards thor judging by there damage soak thor is capable of taking more blunt force damage then superman

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
If I was arguing Superman would blitz him, I would have said "Superman blitzes him"...

Tactics are limited by CIS, like God Blast, T-vo... not punching really hard and really fast.

And, yes I still think it is laughable that you think it comes down to a slugfest. Superman punching really hard and really fast ends this.

Uhuh.

Superman circling Thor and putting down Thor with a single super speed punch to the back of the head before Thor can apparently do anything, would be limited by C.I.S, seeing that Superman did nothing of the sort, and is more than likely going to fly straight at Thor fists raised.

Really? Seeing as how all the evidence points it ending up as, I don't see what's so funny.

Thor punching really hard, really fast ends this.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Uhuh.

Superman circling Thor and putting down Thor with a single super speed punch to the back of the head before Thor can apparently do anything, would be limited by C.I.S, seeing that Superman did nothing of the sort, and is more than likely going to fly straight at Thor fists raised.

Really? Seeing as how all the evidence points it ending up as, I don't see what's so funny.

Thor punching really hard, really fast ends this.

Superman will use speed in this fight and beat Thor down.

That's basically the short version.

If you want to believe that Superman can't use speed(or enough to matter, thereby invoking the herochat rule) and that they walk up to each other stand on a line a take turns punching each other... go ahead. I'll just laugh.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Spire
Totally!

And that's not even taking into consideration the engines that move the goddamn thing through space at lightspeed were acting against him.
I understand (unlike certain posters) that most of the time real world physics and measurements don't mean much. However, they are interesting. I had h1a8 crunch some numbers for the Superman trying to stop Callisto feat he and other Kryptonians fail to do in WoNK, and what he came up with (I have the calculations in a PM) was that, Callisto, which weighs a lot more than Pluto, traveling at 99.9% lightspeed, weighs 2.407*10^24kg. That's less than half of the Earth's mass.

So even if you want to claim that Warworld weighed a lot more because the engines were ignited and helping to push against him, I don't see it being anywhere near the mass of the Earth and overall its an overhyped feat.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
Superman will use speed in this fight and beat Thor down.

That's basically the short version.

If you want to believe that Superman can't use speed(or enough to matter, thereby invoking the herochat rule) and that they walk up to each other stand on a line a take turns punching each other... go ahead. I'll just laugh.

And what do you mean by using his speed? Because his sure as hell is not doing something like encircling Thor and putting him down with one punch to the back of the head, while Thor is helpless.

If by use his speed you mean when they're fighting, he'd punch Thor fast, then yes, that I agree with. Even Thor would be doing that.

He never used his speed in that arc in that state for it enough to be a game ending assert, or matter, not in the way you think it does anyways.

Spire
Originally posted by Enyalus
I understand (unlike certain posters) that most of the time real world physics and measurements don't mean much. However, they are interesting. I had h1a8 crunch some numbers for the Superman trying to stop Callisto feat he and other Kryptonians fail to do in WoNK, and what he came up with (I have the calculations in a PM) was that, Callisto, which weighs a lot more than Pluto, traveling at 99.9% lightspeed, weighs 2.407*10^24kg. That's less than half of the Earth's mass.

So even if you want to claim that Warworld weighed a lot more because the engines were ignited and helping to push against him, I don't see it being anywhere near the mass of the Earth and overall its an overhyped feat.

And?

He couldn't move it before. He dipped, then he could move it. Then warworld launched counter measures, and he still moved it.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Just makes shit even less impressive for Clark.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Spire
And?

He couldn't move it before. He dipped, then he could move it. Then warworld launched counter measures, and he still moved it.
Just sayin'. It's gonna take more than one or two punches for Superman to win. His strength was not that ridiculous to two-shot WM Thor.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And what do you mean by using his speed? Because his sure as hell is not doing something like encircling Thor and putting him down with one punch to the back of the head, while Thor is helpless.

If by use his speed you mean when they're fighting, he'd punch Thor fast, then yes, that I agree with. Even Thor would be doing that.

He never used his speed in that arc in that state for it enough to be a game ending assert, or matter, not in the way you think it does anyways.

laughing

Superman beats him down with amped stats.

I know that you want to hold on to where I stated, apparently, that Superman runs circles around Thor and blitzes him, even after I explained myself. That's cool.

Your attempt to put Superman under herochat and try to bring him down to a Thor that's just stronger and have them stand on a line and punch each other is ridiculous. Superman before dipping got done doing all stuff he is know for doing in OWAW. Then he went and got amped. So if I wanted to say he does more than just punch Thor really fast and really hard I could, but its not necessary.

Spire
Originally posted by Enyalus
Just sayin'. It's gonna take more than one or two punches for Superman to win. His strength was not that ridiculous to two-shot WM Thor.

You mean IF Thor is at this 10x strength right?

Hmm, also... maybe I should get H1N1 to do some math on each of Thor WM showings.

xJLxKing
lol

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't see "Spire's" Sun dipped Superman in the thread title so I doubt that will happen at the very least for the majority of the time.

So they start out .5 kilometers away from each other and in each others line of site, and you claiming that the battle would consist of Superman circling around punching Thor in the back of the head at super speed, was not you claiming he would blitz him? I agree Spire tries at every turn to downplay Thor in favor of Superman. His Superman exists only in his mind.Originally posted by spinetch
no one said that thor is slow but he is not in sups league when it comes down to speed and superman is able to speedblitz him due to that fact just as flash is able to speedblitz superman dont get all emotional because thor is inferior in that category and if you think thor can match superman in speed then YOU ARE nothing but a low fanboy Reflexes. Thor has the reflexes to definitely deal with Superman and to say otherwise is to ignore Thor's history and Superman's.Originally posted by Spire
Superman will use speed in this fight and beat Thor down.

That's basically the short version.

If you want to believe that Superman can't use speed(or enough to matter, thereby invoking the herochat rule) and that they walk up to each other stand on a line a take turns punching each other... go ahead. I'll just laugh. Who says Thor can't hit him back? Really? To suggest Superman dances all over Thor here is a desperate ploy of yours which isn't backed by the comics and Thor at his best since you want to use Superman at his best.

illadelph12
Reefer Madness Thor>>Sun-dipped Superman>>>Warrior Madness Thor.

Assuming it's Purp.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
laughing

Superman beats him down with amped stats.

I know that you want to hold on to where I stated, apparently, that Superman runs circles around Thor and blitzes him, even after I explained myself. That's cool.

Your attempt to put Superman under herochat and try to bring him down to a Thor that's just stronger and have them stand on a line and punch each other is ridiculous. Superman before dipping got done doing all stuff he is know for doing in OWAW. Then he went and got amped. So if I wanted to say he does more than just punch Thor really fast and really hard I could, but its not necessary.

You said what you said. Backtracking doesn't erase the post. The entire pointless discussion started with you not being satisfied that I said Thor loses for some apparent reason and seemingly tried to push your opinion that it's some kind of beatdown in Superman's favor on to me, going on to say that Superman ends the fight with one punch to the back of Thor's head at super speed before Thor could apparently do anything, which is in itself ridiculous.

No I am simply going under the assumption that C.I.S is still in play. Superman can punch really hard and really fast. Okay. That's acceptable, but speed is far from a game ending factor, and this ending up in a slug fest is more than likely. Superman used his speed in Our Worlds at War more prominently than he has almost anywhere else, it's one of the reasons why it's such a famous showing for Superman, but even in that mindset, once he Sun dipped, he simply plowed through everything. Maybe it's because he didn't have to do anything else but that, or maybe his mindset changed. Whatever the case, this points to it being a slug fest.

If you think Superman is ending this with a blitz, then I'm going to stand by Thor ending this with energy absorption. I mean since we are assuming the characters are doing shit they would clearly not normally do in these mindsets.

Batman-Prime
Me thinks that even in an slugfest Thor would lose this one.

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You said what you said. Backtracking doesn't erase the post. The entire pointless discussion started with you not being satisfied that I said Thor loses for some apparent reason and seemingly tried to push your opinion that it's some kind of beatdown in Superman's favor on to me, going on to say that Superman ends the fight with one punch to the back of Thor's head at super speed before Thor could apparently do anything, which is in itself ridiculous.

Again, Superman being much faster that Thor already, and now with an amp even more so, simply flies around Thor and punches him in the back of the head is a far, far, far, cry from a Superman blitz where he is dancing all around Thor simultaneously: vibrating invisable, leaving after-images, punching and using knife hand strikes and nerves strikes all over, speedspinning through his torso, using HV all over, using freeze breath on his arms/legs/body...

So again, if you want to keep talking about this and bringing it up even after I have explained to you what I meant, go for it. I have no problem saying Superman blitzes Thor and kills him seeing as how if any Superman was going to blitz and pull out all the stops, it would most likly be OWAW Superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No I am simply going under the assumption that C.I.S is still in play. Superman can punch really hard and really fast. Okay. That's acceptable, but speed is far from a game ending factor, and this ending up in a slug fest is more than likely. Superman used his speed in Our Worlds at War more prominently than he has almost anywhere else, it's one of the reasons why it's such a famous showing for Superman, but even in that mindset, once he Sun dipped, he simply plowed through everything. Maybe it's because he didn't have to do anything else but that, or maybe his mindset changed. Whatever the case, this points to it being a slug fest.

It's still Superman, he just went and amped to solve a problem.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If you think Superman is ending this with a blitz, then I'm going to stand by Thor ending this with energy absorption. I mean since we are assuming the characters are doing shit they would clearly not normally do in these mindsets.

Lol... character's'... mindset's'...

quanchi112
Originally posted by Spire
Again, Superman being much faster that Thor already, and now with an amp even more so, simply flies around Thor and punches him in the back of the head is a far, far, far, cry from a Superman blitz where he is dancing all around Thor simultaneously: vibrating invisable, leaving after-images, punching and using knife hand strikes and nerves strikes all over, speedspinning through his torso, using HV all over, using freeze breath on his arms/legs/body...

So again, if you want to keep talking about this and bringing it up even after I have explained to you what I meant, go for it. I have no problem saying Superman blitzes Thor and kills him seeing as how if any Superman was going to blitz and pull out all the stops, it would most likly be OWAW Superman.



It's still Superman, he just went and amped to solve a problem.



Lol... character's'... mindset's'... How often did Superman speedblitz in this state?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
Again, Superman being much faster that Thor already, and now with an amp even more so, simply flies around Thor and punches him in the back of the head is a far, far, far, cry from a Superman blitz where he is dancing all around Thor simultaneously: vibrating invisable, leaving after-images, punching and using knife hand strikes and nerves strikes all over, speedspinning through his torso, using HV all over, using freeze breath on his arms/legs/body...

Thor's reflexes were something Thor could use to handle Superman's speed. Along with tactics such as omnidirectional blasts. Even with an amp, which wouldn't be that great, the way you put it, it definitely sounded like a blitz.

A blitz does not mean a character with superior super speed uses all of his tricks. I don't know why you think that is the case.

*Insert previous Flash example mentioned*

Originally posted by Spire
So again, if you want to keep talking about this and bringing it up even after I have explained to you what I meant, go for it. I have no problem saying Superman blitzes Thor and kills him seeing as how if any Superman was going to blitz and pull out all the stops, it would most likly be OWAW Superman.

Nah, I'm getting bored now after 4 pages.

And like I said before, if Our Worlds at War Superman, someone who was so prone to using super speed, became nothing more than a flying brick after the dip, it's rather likely that he'd fly in fists flying here as well.

Originally posted by Spire
It's still Superman, he just went and amped to solve a problem.

erm

Originally posted by Spire
Lol... character's'... mindset's'...

So you're the grammar police now?

You're boring me now Spire. I had to physically will myself to find the energy to type this, and even then, I didn't really put effort into it. I think I'll stop soon. We've been going in circles.

Spire
Originally posted by quanchi112
How often did Superman speedblitz in this state?

In what 'state', cheerleader?

JakeTheBank
Superman for the majority

Spire
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's reflexes were something Thor could use to handle Superman's speed. Along with tactics such as omnidirectional blasts. Even with an amp, which wouldn't be that great, the way you put it, it definitely sounded like a blitz.

A blitz does not mean a character with superior super speed uses all of his tricks. I don't know why you think that is the case.

*Insert previous Flash example mentioned*



Nah, I'm getting bored now after 4 pages.

And like I said before, if Our Worlds at War Superman, someone who was so prone to using super speed, became nothing more than a flying brick after the dip, it's rather likely that he'd fly in fists flying here as well.



erm



So you're the grammar police now?

You're boring me now Spire. I had to physically will myself to find the energy to type this, and even then, I didn't really put effort into it. I think I'll stop soon. We've been going in circles.

That's fine, I won't respond to this anymore as well.

I mean, really, no point in replying to someone who thinks Thor can handle an amped Superman's speed, and then goes on to mention it wasn't that great of an amp anyways.

Well, that and the fact I don't have the time or the energy either.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Spire
That's fine, I won't respond to this anymore as well.

I mean, really, no point in replying to someone who thinks Thor can handle an amped Superman's speed, and then goes on to mention it wasn't that great of an amp anyways.

Well, that and the fact I don't have the time or the energy either.

I was referring to a pre-blitz Superman and a pre-madness Thor.

And no the amp shouldn't have been too great, but we really have no way of knowing how much he was amped as all he did was use his speed for travel really.

Cool.

Good night. I'm going to bed.

I'll keep you in my prayers. love

the ninjak
Originally posted by the ninjak
You guys agree then fight anywayweird

Must be some kind of masochistic foreplay.

Originally posted by Spire
There is more to it than that.


thumb up

psycho gundam
Originally posted by illadelph12
Reefer Madness Thor>>Sun-dipped Superman>>>Warrior Madness Thor.

Assuming it's Purp. that reminds me.

heh, probably the root of some of the crazy accidents in the olympics, supposedly b.c. grows the best mary jane naturally.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Spire
In what 'state', cheerleader? Looks at the thread title and laughs.

manx422
Superman

paisapower
Superman sleeps through the whole thing. As he slumbers he turns and

inadverdantly turns making contact with thors chin knocking him out.

Winner REM Superman.

Harbinger
OWAW Supes.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Harbinger
OWAW Supes.

Pretty accurate. OWAW state of mind Superman would be more then an challange, Sundipped it's not even worth debating.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Spire
You mean IF Thor is at this 10x strength right?
No, I'm going by the HIM showing and what he showed in B&T prior to receiving the Power Gem. He was badly mauling BRB, Surfer, Warlock and Drax.

Originally posted by Spire
Hmm, also... maybe I should get H1N1 to do some math on each of Thor WM showings.
All WM Thor did was punch people really hard...And one-shot a planet/planetoid (artist depiction kind of sucked). But even regular, Classic Thor has lifted/overcome the weight of half the planet before (against Kang and his gravity weapon). Whatever amp he had in his Warrior Madness showings, he would not be outclassed by a sundipped Superman strengthwise. And IF we use Thor at 10x his classic strength, then Thor's got him beat in that department clearly.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Pretty accurate. OWAW state of mind Superman would be more then an challange, Sundipped it's not even worth debating. Based on?


What did he do which proves he can easily beat Thor at ten times his normal strength levels?

Originally posted by paisapower
Superman sleeps through the whole thing. As he slumbers he turns and

inadverdantly turns making contact with thors chin knocking him out.

Winner REM Superman. Based on?

Spire
Originally posted by Enyalus

No, I'm going by the HIM showing and what he showed in B&T prior to receiving the Power Gem. He was badly mauling BRB, Surfer, Warlock and Drax.

Right, I remember now when Thor 1-shot HIM.

And B&T Thor... aside from it being completely retarded to even bring up seeing as how it wasn't 'true warriors madness' - if you are 'going by' that showing as evidence as 10x strength, I guess that effectively puts base Thor at around 20 -25 tons at best.

It makes sense, because well, seeing as how we are on the topic of numbers and scans from decades ago, Thor at half strength couldn't lift a tractor.

Originally posted by Enyalus

All WM Thor did was punch people really hard...And one-shot a planet/planetoid (artist depiction kind of sucked). But even regular, Classic Thor has lifted/overcome the weight of half the planet before (against Kang and his gravity weapon). Whatever amp he had in his Warrior Madness showings, he would not be outclassed by a sundipped Superman strengthwise. And IF we use Thor at 10x his classic strength, then Thor's got him beat in that department clearly.

Proof he has him 'beat clearly' in that department?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Pretty accurate. OWAW's loeb force Superman would be more then an challange, Sundipped it's not even worth debating. fixed

Enyalus
Originally posted by Spire
Right, I remember now when Thor 1-shot HIM.

And B&T Thor... aside from it being completely retarded to even bring up seeing as how it wasn't 'true warriors madness' - if you are 'going by' that showing as evidence as 10x strength
I'm not. Because as Rage pointed out before in a separate thread, the 10x strength thing was first mentioned in 1996 (Thor #502).

Originally posted by Spire
, I guess that effectively puts base Thor at around 20 -25 tons at best.
I don't know where you're getting that from, because it doesn't even make sense.

Originally posted by Spire
Proof he has him 'beat clearly' in that department?
Sure. You're apparently all over Superman's dick about him moving Warworld while amped which weighed about half of the Earth. Thor's done that in his classic incarnation. Apply 10x strength warrior madness, and you get (gasp!) ten times that much strength.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by psycho gundam
fixed

Hmm, I can't even say something against this, it's true.

Enyalus, Warworld was powered by the energies of Imperiex, the energies of Entropy itself. It's engines couldn't counter Superman's strength. The Entropy Aegis which is arguably more powerful then OWAW Superman wasn't capable of affecting the tendrils, John even stated that they haven grown a hundred times more powerful. Superman however in his Sundipped statet did what John wasn't capable of doing and even more.

In this state there was nothing that affected him, he was portrayed like a supreme being, beyond the limitations of "normal" heroes. Maybe Loeb wanted to give us his interpretation of Superman Prime (golden) he did create an unsoppable force in the process. At least in his only appearance he wasn't even remotely challanged by anyone, not even Brainiac with Imperiex's energies and Warworld at his command (body).

This is IMO more impressive then say Sentry defeating MM or ripping Ares apart and I think that, if this feat would have been done by another hero, say Thor, Silver Surfer or even Martian Manhunter most people would give it the credit it deserves or even overhype it (if Sentry would have done it).

The only argument that speaks against Sundipped Superman, that I would consider valid, is the fact that the Story was written by Loeb, rendering it invalid. Though entertaining, it seemed overpowered, like a lot of things Loeb writes.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hmm, I can't even say something against this, it's true.

Enyalus, Warworld was powered by the energies of Imperiex, the energies of Entropy itself. It's engines couldn't counter Superman's strength.
Except that for 1) there's zero proof that Warworld's engines could handle using all or even most of Imperiex's power so he wasn't pushing against all of Imperiex's power, just a portion of it. 2) That portion was obviously pretty minute, because Imperiex's power is still great enough to form a second Big Bang with the remainder of the power after Superman pushes him through the Boom-Tube.



I'm going to agree that OWAW Superman is a good fight against WM Thor. Whoever said that. But sundipped OWAW Superman's mentality seemed...off. And since CIS is on, I think that just like WM hinders what Thor can do, that sundip would hinder what Superman does as well.

Spire
Originally posted by Enyalus

I'm not. Because as Rage pointed out before in a separate thread, the 10x strength thing was first mentioned in 1996 (Thor #502).


I don't know where you're getting that from, because it doesn't even make sense.


Sure. You're apparently all over Superman's dick about him moving Warworld while amped which weighed about half of the Earth. Thor's done that in his classic incarnation. Apply 10x strength warrior madness, and you get (gasp!) ten times that much strength.

...plus the counter measures pushing against him.

(Gasp!) Cool, I got that 10x Thor. thumb up

However, to have someone 'clearly beat' you need to know how strong the other person is and by how much they are 'clearly beaten'.

So, again:

Proof?

Enyalus
Damnit. F*cked by logic again.

You clever devil, Spire...

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Enyalus
Except that for 1) there's zero proof that Warworld's engines could handle using all or even most of Imperiex's power so he wasn't pushing against all of Imperiex's power, just a portion of it. 2) That portion was obviously pretty minute, because Imperiex's power is still great enough to form a second Big Bang with the remainder of the power after Superman pushes him through the Boom-Tube.



I'm going to agree that OWAW Superman is a good fight against WM Thor. Whoever said that. But sundipped OWAW Superman's mentality seemed...off. And since CIS is on, I think that just like WM hinders what Thor can do, that sundip would hinder what Superman does as well.

1.) How much power did imperiex had in your opinion?
2.) It's imperiex. Some might put him on Galactus level, or a stronger Celestial. erm

Sundipped Superman, after getting mentally attuned to the power was more effective then before. I doesn't hinder him, on the contrary IMO.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
1.) How much power did imperiex had in your opinion?
2.) It's imperiex. Some might put him on Galactus level, or a stronger Celestial. erm

Sundipped Superman, after getting mentally attuned to the power was more effective then before. I doesn't hinder him, on the contrary IMO.
I would say that he had about a Big Bang's worth of energy. wink stick out tongue
And regarding the second, yeah, I think he's about Galactus level. Maybe a bit more powerful. Afterall, Galactus' being destroyed would have obliterated the 616 universe and the Negative Zone.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the 'more effective' part, because in my opinion he was almost too focus...very single minded. Less effective. But to each his own interpretation.

Warlord
superman...better stats (except maybe strength), improved energy output and Thor is unlikly to use any exotic abilities while in that state

quanchi112
Originally posted by Spire
Right, I remember now when Thor 1-shot HIM.

And B&T Thor... aside from it being completely retarded to even bring up seeing as how it wasn't 'true warriors madness' - if you are 'going by' that showing as evidence as 10x strength, I guess that effectively puts base Thor at around 20 -25 tons at best.

It makes sense, because well, seeing as how we are on the topic of numbers and scans from decades ago, Thor at half strength couldn't lift a tractor.



Proof he has him 'beat clearly' in that department? Blood and thunder shows us what Thor is capable of when at normal levels when he isn't holding back. Imagine that number at ten times those levels. Wow. Thor wins.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by quanchi112
Blood and thunder shows us what Thor is capable of when at normal levels when he isn't holding back. Imagine that number at ten times those levels. Wow. Thor wins.

While OWAW shows Superman's speed and strength when enhanced by the sundip, we haven't seen it in a storyline where he is completely without restraint like Thor.

A Sundipped Superman will have to go all out to survive against WM Thor. When Superman lets loose, I like his chances against most non-skyfathers.

h1a8
A normal Superman would beat WM Thor 10/10 due to speed.

psycho gundam
reported

JakeTheBank
This shit again?

quanchi112
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
While OWAW shows Superman's speed and strength when enhanced by the sundip, we haven't seen it in a storyline where he is completely without restraint like Thor.

A Sundipped Superman will have to go all out to survive against WM Thor. When Superman lets loose, I like his chances against most non-skyfathers. Considering what he was up against only a fool would think he held some back. In this state it's in character for him not to kill also.

jebadaya13
superman takes the majority

quanchi112
Originally posted by jebadaya13
superman takes the majority Based on?

carver9
5/5 split if you ask me. Two powerful beast.

jebadaya13
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on?

based on my opinion moron now f^ck off

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by quanchi112
Considering what he was up against only a fool would think he held some back. In this state it's in character for him not to kill also.

Superman still held back until the end of OWAW. Thor in WM would push him beyond what he has ever faced from another combatant, even Darkseid.

Superman has killed on 2 other occasions and after a few hits from amped Thor he would be willing to contemplate going all out.

Enyalus
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Superman has killed on 2 other occasions and after a few hits from amped Thor he would be willing to contemplate going all out.
Thor's a hero, and Superman knows it. Especially because they've met before. He's not going to kill him. Just like Thor wouldn't kill Superman if he were in his right mind.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Enyalus
Thor's a hero, and Superman knows it. Especially because they've met before. He's not going to kill him. Just like Thor wouldn't kill Superman if he were in his right mind.

Is JLA/AVENGERS canon on the forums now?

I know its officially canon in terms of the comics given the writeups from Marvel.

If thats the case the fight just got even more fierce.

Thor's pride and ego will have him seeing nothing but the KO he suffered at the hands of Superman.

Enyalus
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Is JLA/AVENGERS canon on the forums now?
It's canon but you can't use its results as evidence on the forums. I don't think it bars the fact that they have met canonically.

h1a8
This thread is spite. Sundipped Superman has more than a thousand galaxies of power (each galaxy has billions of stars) where WM Thor don't even have 1 star of power.

Even if WM thor was just as powerful he would simply lose everytime because of the speed disadvantage.

JakeTheBank
el oh el

quanchi112
Originally posted by jebadaya13
based on my opinion moron now f^ck off I see you couldn't back up your case.Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Superman still held back until the end of OWAW. Thor in WM would push him beyond what he has ever faced from another combatant, even Darkseid.

Superman has killed on 2 other occasions and after a few hits from amped Thor he would be willing to contemplate going all out. He wouldn't kill though in this mindset. I could care less what other mindset he has killed in in this one he wouldn't do so.Originally posted by h1a8
This thread is spite. Sundipped Superman has more than a thousand galaxies of power (each galaxy has billions of stars) where WM Thor don't even have 1 star of power.

Even if WM thor was just as powerful he would simply lose everytime because of the speed disadvantage. This statement makes no sense.

h1a8
Originally posted by quanchi112
This statement makes no sense.

This thread is a trick. Put WM Thor against someone way more powerful to try to show that WM Thor can beat a normal Superman. I'm not falling for this trick and you guys reading this don't either.

Speed is always the key to any version of Superman vs. any version of Thor.

If Superman can move 5ft before Thor can move 1in then Thor can't defend and will always lose.

Doesn't really matter who's more powerful here.

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
This thread is a trick. Put WM Thor against someone way more powerful to try to show that WM Thor can beat a normal Superman. I'm not falling for this trick and you guys reading this don't either.

Speed is always the key to any version of Superman vs. any version of Thor.

If Superman can move 5ft before Thor can move 1in then Thor can't defend and will always lose.

Doesn't really matter who's more powerful here. It isn't a trick and you are the only paranoid type of poster who thinks someone devises clever internet threads as some sort of booby trap for comic fans.

Thor wins as he is ten times stronger while I don't see Superman being that much stronger while sundipped.

the ninjak
Originally posted by h1a8
This thread is a trick. Put WM Thor against someone way more powerful to try to show that WM Thor can beat a normal Superman. I'm not falling for this trick and you guys reading this don't either.

Speed is always the key to any version of Superman vs. any version of Thor.

If Superman can move 5ft before Thor can move 1in then Thor can't defend and will always lose.

Doesn't really matter who's more powerful here.

I agree! Thor has taken down speedfreaks with ease before! within 2 secs on occasion before the opponent could even land a punch. But Supes is a different kettle of fish!
Flight with Superspeed means Thor can't vibrate Supes into the air giving him the chance for melee take down.
I see Thor standing a chance against WW and beating Flash but not Supes.... Sun dipped!
I need to see a scan of Thor beating similar characters than Amped Supes. I believe the DC/Marvel crossover between the two was BULLCRAP. Thor's hammer should have nastier results on Supes when the hammer hit. Allowing for melee combat.
But this scenario Supes is just too fast with added benefits.
Supes FTW.

h1a8
Originally posted by quanchi112
It isn't a trick and you are the only paranoid type of poster who thinks someone devises clever internet threads as some sort of booby trap for comic fans.

Thor wins as he is ten times stronger while I don't see Superman being that much stronger while sundipped.

Only bias non smart people don't understand that strength has nothing to do with speed being the key. Moving 5ft when someone moves 1in proves the no defense case. I rest my case.

psycho gundam
we got it, you can STFU about it now. smile

h1a8
ok

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
Only bias non smart people don't understand that strength has nothing to do with speed being the key. Moving 5ft when someone moves 1in proves the no defense case. I rest my case. If he uses his speed it's going to hurt a lot more when Thor connects his hammer to Superman's face.

h1a8
Originally posted by quanchi112
If he uses his speed it's going to hurt a lot more when Thor connects his hammer to Superman's face.

Thor wouldn't have move far enough to even raise the hammer. Superman would connect with his face far before Thor can move any sufficient amount.

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
Thor wouldn't have move far enough to even raise the hammer. Superman would connect with his face far before Thor can move any sufficient amount. Based on what?

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what?

I don't want to jump in the middle of the heated battle but Thor's fight against Gladiator under Jurgens showed a weakness against speed.

quanchi112
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I don't want to jump in the middle of the heated battle but Thor's fight against Gladiator under Jurgens showed a weakness against speed. Not at all. It showed just the opposite. If Gladiator could beat him with speed he would have, but only gained an advantage due to Thor hesitating and holding back.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by quanchi112
Not at all. It showed just the opposite. If Gladiator could beat him with speed he would have, but only gained an advantage due to Thor hesitating and holding back.

I don't think this is quite accurate.

Gladiator was doing well with his speed but I believe the confidence factor came into play. That notwithstanding, if you consider that Superman is faster and stronger at the default level than Gladiator, the Sundip augmentation makes his speed even more of a threat.

There is also the Mongoose fight where speed was a problem for Thor as well.

levianoel
both gladiator and mangoose were beating thor due speed and he couldnt do anything also let it be notedc that spider-amn was landing to much blows on thor and thor had to use lightning to stop him because thor got issues with speedsters while superman is too fast for him sundipped superman will rape him in speed and strength

Warlord
Thor just ignored Qucksilver's speed in Mighty Avnegers (who is somehow amped those days).
Superman in this state still wins though

quanchi112
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I don't think this is quite accurate.

Gladiator was doing well with his speed but I believe the confidence factor came into play. That notwithstanding, if you consider that Superman is faster and stronger at the default level than Gladiator, the Sundip augmentation makes his speed even more of a threat.

There is also the Mongoose fight where speed was a problem for Thor as well. Glads was doing well because Thor was holding back and their were innocents around and he also threw something at Thor to give him the time needed to use his speed to barely catch him off guard. If speed were all that were required he wouldn't need to throw something at Thor to distract him.

Kallark was going all out from the start and he got the jump on Thor and when Thor quit screwing around he beat him into the dirt.

The Mongoose incident is also like a wolverine incident while playing down Thor's abilities to make a less formidable character appear to be a threat to him. I can cite the Hela showing as a great speed feat for Thor considering she couldn't even touch him.

h1a8
Originally posted by quanchi112
Glads was doing well because Thor was holding back and their were innocents around and he also threw something at Thor to give him the time needed to use his speed to barely catch him off guard. If speed were all that were required he wouldn't need to throw something at Thor to distract him.

Kallark was going all out from the start and he got the jump on Thor and when Thor quit screwing around he beat him into the dirt.

The Mongoose incident is also like a wolverine incident while playing down Thor's abilities to make a less formidable character appear to be a threat to him. I can cite the Hela showing as a great speed feat for Thor considering she couldn't even touch him.


People think if someone has superspeed (any degree) then they can fight anyone with super speed (any degree). This is clearly false.

There are levels of Superspeed. For example, a bullet can move faster than the eye can see. Even at .1% the speed of light this is about 100 times faster than a bullet. But what is .1% compare to the actual speed of light or even 1% of the speed of light.

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
People think if someone has superspeed (any degree) then they can fight anyone with super speed (any degree). This is clearly false.

There are levels of Superspeed. For example, a bullet can move faster than the eye can see. Even at .1% the speed of light this is about 100 times faster than a bullet. But what is .1% compare to the actual speed of light or even 1% of the speed of light. Thor has fought someone with superspeed the likes of Superman before and been shown to be more than capable of doing so.

h1a8
Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor has fought someone with superspeed the likes of Superman before and been shown to be more than capable of doing so. No he hasn't. Superman would be the fastest being Thor would have ever faced.

Also, facing a fast being means nothing if they don't use their top speed against you. So your argument is irrelevant.

Lastly, doesn't matter who Thor faced since he is far slower than Superman thus reducing the battle to the common sense argument of no defense.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by h1a8
No he hasn't. Superman would be the fastest being Thor would have ever faced.

False. Gladiator/Silver Surfer/Count Nefaria are all faster or as fast as Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
Also, facing a fast being means nothing if they don't use their top speed against you. So your argument is irrelevant.

True. BUT CIS rules apply, thus Superman will NOT blitz from the get-go, making your argument flawed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Lastly, doesn't matter who Thor faced since he is far slower than Superman thus reducing the battle to the common sense argument of no defense.

See above.

h1a8
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
False. Gladiator/Silver Surfer/Count Nefaria are all faster or as fast as Superman. No they aren't. Superman can reach light speed within the first 3m of travel. The others can't. Doesn't matter as those guys didn't use their top speed on Thor.


CIS implies that a character is either NATURALLY dumb (Rhino) or limited to certain actions because of a way of life (Thor). Superman will do any tactic that his smarts and beliefs allows him to. Otherwise, it would defeat both the fun and the purpose of this comic debating. The very spirit of it will be gone.

Superman having genius IQ yet not thinking of blitzing from the get go against a very dangerous opponent is contradictory. Character's intelligence should be limited to their very intelligence and not the author's (who is almost always dumber than the character anyway).

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by h1a8
No they aren't. Superman can reach light speed within the first 3m of travel. The others can't. Doesn't matter as those guys didn't use their top speed on Thor.

Wow. There is so much wrong in this statement, I don't know where to begin. Recheck the list, recheck their respect threads and stop being so ignorant of Marvel characters please.

Originally posted by h1a8
CIS implies that a character is either NATURALLY dumb or limited to certain actions because of a way of life. Superman will do any tactic that his smarts and beliefs allows him to. Otherwise, it would defeat both the fun and the purpose of this comic debating. The very spirit of it will be gone.

Superman having genius IQ yet not thinking of blitzing from the get go against a very dangerous opponent is contradictory. Character's intelligence should be limited to their very intelligence and not the author's (who is almost always dumber than the character anyway).

Wrong. It is called CHARACTER-Induced Stupidity for a reason. Reread the definition in the rules portion and come back here when you finally know what you are talking about. Thanks.

h1a8
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Wow. There is so much wrong in this statement, I don't know where to begin. Recheck the list, recheck their respect threads and stop being so ignorant of Marvel characters please. I've seen all of their top speed feats. FACT! None of them, I repeat, none of them has achieved light speed within the FIRST 3m of travel.



I know the rules. You got them wrong not me.

Here is a direct quote:

For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability

manx422
Superman

Allankles
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Wrong. It is called CHARACTER-Induced Stupidity for a reason. Reread the definition in the rules portion and come back here when you finally know what you are talking about. Thanks.

You're talking about PIS. CIS involves the character's established flaws/limitations, e.g. arrogance, vanity, poor self-esteem (Sentry).

In the case of Superman's CIS, if he doesn't know the level of a threat he might choose to test them out first, sometimes by deliberately taking a hit.

However he will most likely choose the quick and efficient way for stopping an opponent, once he knows what they can do.

If he's brawling an opponent that he could speedblitz that falls under PIS, because Superman isn't the type to worry about a warrior's code of combat.

He's one of those heroes who knows everything about his opponent including how many ways they could take him out and vice versa, so usually that's only the plot making him fight that way.

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
No he hasn't. Superman would be the fastest being Thor would have ever faced.

Also, facing a fast being means nothing if they don't use their top speed against you. So your argument is irrelevant.

Lastly, doesn't matter who Thor faced since he is far slower than Superman thus reducing the battle to the common sense argument of no defense. Do you know who Gladiator is and how fast he is?

Glads used his speed against Thor.

You don't know who Gladiator is so your point is irrelevant.

Originally posted by h1a8
I've seen all of their top speed feats. FACT! None of them, I repeat, none of them has achieved light speed within the FIRST 3m of travel.



I know the rules. You got them wrong not me.

Here is a direct quote:

For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability Name all of their top speed feats then. You claimed Thor is more durable than Odin before when someone who read ten issues with both characters would know this is just plain silly.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by h1a8
I've seen all of their top speed feats. FACT! None of them, I repeat, none of them has achieved light speed within the FIRST 3m of travel.

Please stop making stuff up. The problem with your arguments has always been that you post with an almost total ignorance about a character then put out garbage like this and state it as "fact".

Originally posted by h1a8
I know the rules. You got them wrong not me.

Here is a direct quote:

For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability

Keep reading. You seem to have missed the part at the bottom.

Originally posted by Allankles
You're talking about PIS. CIS involves the character's established flaws/limitations, e.g. arrogance, vanity, poor self-esteem (Sentry).

In the case of Superman's CIS, if he doesn't know the level of a threat he might choose to test them out first, sometimes by deliberately taking a hit.

However he will most likely choose the quick and efficient way for stopping an opponent, once he knows what they can do.

If he's brawling an opponent that he could speedblitz that falls under PIS, because Superman isn't the type to worry about a warrior's code of combat.

He's one of those heroes who knows everything about his opponent including how many ways they could take him out and vice versa, so usually that's only the plot making him fight that way.

I strongly disagree.

My point is that in the majority of Superman's showings, he didn't start off or finish off with a speed blitz on a much slower opponent. That is why he gets tagged a lot by enemies that move at a much slower speed. This is not because he is stupid, this is just how he's always been written.

If your rationale stood true in any debate, then it would stand to mention that Surfer would always start with weakness exploit vs a dangerous opponent, Thor would always use his godblast, etc.

Because, well, these characters are smart enough to use their best attacks against an otherwise lethal opponent at the start, too.

But they don't, do they?

Here's a quoted example lifted from the rules.



My point has always been that even though Supes might use his speed later on at the fight, he won't use it from the get-go.

Rage.Of.Olympus
facepalm at what this thread has turned into. I won't even bother commenting on some of the stupidity posted here. I'm too lazy and I don't care enough.

However.....

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I don't want to jump in the middle of the heated battle but Thor's fight against Gladiator under Jurgens showed a weakness against speed.

Someone needs to re-read the issue. While Thor is busy knocking away the side of a buildings that Gladiator tossed at him and the girl, Gladiator flies and knocks Mjolnir out of Thor's hands.

He caught him off guard, Thor was busy, and he thought Gladiator was a friend. Thor caught Gladiator off guard twice. It doesn't mean much. Much less show that he has a weakness towards speed.

JakeTheBank
Not to mention that "great showing" for Gladiator and "low showing against speed" for Thor has several things that need to be noted:

1.) It wasn't even 616 Glads, but rather a Glads from the future during which the Reigning took place.
2.) He begins the fight by attacking JAKE OLSEN, who we all know is a High Herald paramedic.
3.) Glads continue to press his advantage, not at all caring about the girl who would get caught in the crossfire.
4.) As soon as Thor knew that Gladiator had arrived to end him and was no longer taken by surprise, Thor promptly kicked his ass. All before Tarene obliterates him.

Rage.Of.Olympus
^True. Thor pounds that ass. My favorite fight between the two was when Masterson fought him. In Thor #445 I believe. It was a pretty epic battle in my opinion.

And lol at people bringing up the Wolverine fight. As if it's the norm and act like Clark doesn't have low showings.

Didn't he have trouble tagging or hitting Shadowdragon at all in combat? He even admits Shadowdragon is faster as I recall. The same Shadowdragon Shiva was taking on and had the advantage over in combat pretty decisively. It was very similar to the Wolverine incident with Superman trying to hit Shadowdragon and him keeping out of reach etc. dodging his attacks.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^True. Thor pounds that ass. My favorite fight between the two was when Masterson fought him. In Thor #445 I believe. It was a pretty epic battle in my opinion.
It was pretty one-sided in Gladiator's favor in my opinion. stick out tongue Had Gladiator not stopped to gloat after Masterson was down, the fight would've been over. Blatant case of PIS.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Enyalus
It was pretty one-sided in Gladiator's favor in my opinion. stick out tongue Had Gladiator not stopped to gloat after Masterson was down, the fight would've been over. Blatant case of PIS.

You weren't reading the same fight then. They were going toe to toe and it was pretty much a stalemate with Gladiator having the edge as a result of him being somewhat faster and being a fighter.

Over? Lol nah. He was down, but far from out.

Gladiator is just lucky Masterson was not a warrior born. He held back at times, and simply wasn't fighting like a warrior which Gladiator even notices. His also lucky Masterson was in one of his, "I can't do this" phase. If he got his confidence up, he'd have most likely kicked his ass. Which I guess ended up happening.

P.I.S? Gladiator gloating a bit? That's nothing when you have Masterson relaxing himself in the middle of a contest of strength and fighting like an amateur. They're just acting in character.

Anyways I have to go.

carver9
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You weren't reading the same fight then. They were going toe to toe and it was pretty much a stalemate with Gladiator having the edge as a result of him being somewhat faster and being a fighter.

Over? Lol nah. He was down, but far from out.

Gladiator is just lucky Masterson was not a warrior born. He held back at times, and simply wasn't fighting like a warrior which Gladiator even notices. His also lucky Masterson was in one of his, "I can't do this" phase. If he got his confidence up, he'd have most likely kicked his ass. Which I guess ended up happening.

P.I.S? Gladiator gloating a bit? That's nothing when you have Masterson relaxing himself in the middle of a contest of strength and fighting like an amateur. They're just acting in character.

Anyways I have to go.

Rage, it was pretty obvious that Gladiator had the edge in that entire fight. Masterson eve stated this before confronting Gladiator. If Gladiator didnt stand above him laughing, Masterson wouldnt have seen another fight after that.

The fight was lopsided in not only speed but durability, and strength.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by carver9
Rage, it was pretty obvious that Gladiator had the edge in that entire fight. Masterson eve stated this before confronting Gladiator. If Gladiator didnt stand above him laughing, Masterson wouldnt have seen another fight after that.

The fight was lopsided in not only speed but durability, and strength.

Yes, that's Masterson's lack of confidence. He was anxious and shocked at the idea of even facing Gladiator. It's part of his character. He was human and limited himself. He'd get hurt flying into a chimney when unsure and when confident tanked pretty damn powerful attacks.

His first two fights with Ulik pretty much made it clear confidence was a big issue. A hit from Ulik in their first encounter made his entire side numb and was owned while in their second he was tanked a punch unharmed and beat that ass.

Why? Because Masterson was down? Sure Gladiator had the advantage but that's about it. Gladiator was simply being confident which is in character, just like it's in character for Masterson to be unsure of himself.

Nah. It was pretty clear that Gladiator was not stronger. That's why when they locked arms and went strength for strength it was a stalemate. Gladiator seemed more durable, but that's only because of Masterson's thought bubbles and we know how accurate those are in regards to himself.....

Anyways I gotta go.

carver9
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes, that's Masterson's lack of confidence. He was anxious and shocked at the idea of even facing Gladiator. It's part of his character. He was human and limited himself. He'd get hurt flying into a chimney when unsure and when confident tanked pretty damn powerful attacks.

His first two fights with Ulik pretty much made it clear confidence was a big issue. A hit from Ulik in their first encounter made his entire side numb and was owned while in their second he was tanked a punch unharmed and beat that ass.

Why? Because Masterson was down? Sure Gladiator had the advantage but that's about it. Gladiator was simply being confident which is in character, just like it's in character for Masterson to be unsure of himself.

Nah. It was pretty clear that Gladiator was not stronger. That's why when they locked arms and went strength for strength it was a stalemate. Gladiator seemed more durable, but that's only because of Masterson's thought bubbles and we know how accurate those are in regards to himself.....

Anyways I gotta go.

I agree with your post and I never thought of masterson as a weak character because he is quite powerful but Gladiator was leagues above him.

During the contest of strength, Glads won that and punched Masterson some feat away. Then you have to realize, Masterson doesnt have the strength feats that Gladiator has under his belt.

If this is regular Thor, yes, I agree, Thor is more powerful than him, Masterson, Naah.

h1a8
Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you know who Gladiator is and how fast he is?

Glads used his speed against Thor.

You don't know who Gladiator is so your point is irrelevant.

Name all of their top speed feats then. You claimed Thor is more durable than Odin before when someone who read ten issues with both characters would know this is just plain silly.

When Glads used his speed it was effective when he didn't he lost.

Speed and acceleration is two different things. Learn the difference.

Thor has greater physical durability than Odin, not greater energy projection durability.

carver9
Originally posted by h1a8
When Glads used his speed it was effective when he didn't he lost.

Speed and acceleration is two different things. Learn the difference.

Thor has greater physical durability than Odin, not greater energy projection durability.


Why debate about Gladiator when you dont know who he is?

I dont even think you know the fight that he is talking about between Glads and Thor.

Tomato Juice
Thor cant beat Superman no matter what you try to pull.

Blanket
Originally posted by Tomato Juice
Thor cant beat Superman no matter what you try to pull. You come in a can though. So you're a can.

Tomato Juice
Originally posted by Blanket
You come in a can though. So you're a can.

Just admit that Thor is another Superman lite with a hammer trying to be the real thing. Only then can we be friends.

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