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With a ten year preparation time, Ganondorf comes to Azeroth with the intention to rule. Will he pull it of, or will Azeroth provide a greater challenge than he first expected?

This is after Arthas death, personalities are to be taken in consideration and Ganondorf only get the Triforce of Power. He also get his common minions with him.

10 years of prep time? Is Ganondorf allowed to contact Warcraft baddies like the Burning Legion and perhaps strike a deal with them?

Ganon given ten years to plan and set up his attack, could become a threat to shame the Lich King and the scourge, imho.

Ten years...I suppose he could build a pretty good army with that. But still, d*mn the lack of good flying units. I wonder how a group of wizrobes that summon creatures would do, especially that one that could summon more summoners.

Would that eternal night curse make the Night Elves more powerful? Maybe he could send that storm with it, cover up the moon or something. (This has nothing to do with Ganondorf, but I now have a mental image of Majora's Mask crashing the moon into the Night Elf capital.)

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
10 years of prep time? Is Ganondorf allowed to contact Warcraft baddies like the Burning Legion and perhaps strike a deal with them?

If he has the means to and have something to offer, sure. The Burning Legion would not join him for nothing.

Their not going to aid him for anything he can provide. I think they can make a few silver arrows if they do not have any already.

There are characters alive post-Arthas that alone could rival Ganondorf. Taking on Hyrule is one thing, but Azeroth is a whole different league. The Six alone would give him problems, not taking in consideration Med'an, Tirion, Jaina and other active saviors.

His assault could force Azeroth to its knees, probably. Take it by storm and forcing it to submit, maybe. There is no way he could hold it, though. His minions are not strong enough and he will shortly after have everyone against him. The Scourge, the habitants of Azeroth and even the Burning Legion.

This being post-Arthas, it is only a matter of time before Deathwing returns and that more or less equal game over.
It was not for no reason that three out of four dragon Aspects quivered at the mere mentioning of his adopted name.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
If he has the means to and have something to offer, sure. The Burning Legion would not join him for nothing.

Ganondorf could probably find a way to summon a demonlord like Kil'jaeden, given 10 years.

This really is his sort of thing.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This really is his sort of thing.

It seems so, but it could prove to be quite detrimental to his set goal to rule Azeroth.

He'd figure something out. 131

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He'd figure something out. 131

The Burning Legion tends not to keep alliances that have outlasted their use. Ganondorf, as intelligent as he is, would most likely figure it out. That would make one less ally for him, though.

Risks are that Ganondorf would probably hope to outwit Kil'Jaeden. Expect the end of their alliance and beat him to the chase, after Kil'Jaeden has served his purpose. That alone would end up a clash between wits, but because both pride themselves in their intelligence, it is hard to see how it would end

Ganondorf having ten years, I think he would decide to leave the Burning Legion out of this, not that they would be for long. The Old Gods would also like a part of this act. In the end, Ganondorf by attacking Azeroth would give an opening to so many threats. He will have started Deathwing's quest, will have given the Old Gods an opening and Kil'Jaeden could track down new doorways into Azeroth, doors closed before Ganondorf stepped in. He will end up destroyed by Azeroth's enemies.

Truth be told, personalities taken in consideration, it is impossible to have the outcome of this foretold. Too many parts of the equation that can not be excluded.


The only thing that would have a definite ending, would be if Ganondorf has a habit of playing with time and ended up meddling with Nozdormu's realm.

Given Ganondorf's skills at necromancy and creation magic (notable feats include reviving the extinct species of Dodongos and Volvagia, and the Redeads, Gibdos, and Stalfos in his army), he should be able able to raise a massive army. Not to mention his mass mind control of the Hylian Royal Guard. I wonder if he could turn the Scourge...

Of course, Ganondorf's MO is more manipulative. He tends to get others to do things for him. I'd see see him corrupting or controlling someone to help him. He could even pose as a god again. He also tends to target those that are a threat to him (Link excluded for some reason.) See: cursed the deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu, killed the Sages that powered the Master Sword, etc. He's also used sabatage in the past, like when he sealed the entrance to the Goron mines to starve them or froze all of Zora's Domain (twice). Given 10 years prep and planning, Ganondorf could cause absolute chaos. Adding CIS makes this ridiculously devestating.

Ganondorf convinces every guild, city and institutional government that he (or his subordinate) is the answer to all of their problems. Within 10 years, all political power is handed to him with little to no physical persuasive action.

Heck, Ganondorf has the ambition, sob story, and power to convince any nation to get under his dominance or be exterminated.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Ganondorf convinces every guild, city and institutional government that he (or his subordinate) is the answer to all of their problems. Within 10 years, all political power is handed to him with little to no physical persuasive action.

Heck, Ganondorf has the ambition, sob story, and power to convince any nation to get under his dominance or be exterminated.

You make it sound so easy. Why do I doubt it would be that easy? mmm

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
You make it sound so easy. Why do I doubt it would be that easy? mmm

Well, Agahnim put out a few fires in Hyrule and was exalted to chief advisor to the king, a position where he was able to easily brainwash Hyrule's soldiers to do his bidding.

So, for Azeroth, we do the same thing on a larger scale with a mightier man, except this time there is no Master Sword.

But seriously, it probably wouldn't be that easy. But 10 years is a long time...

I assume the more powerful entities in Azeroth are not going to make much of a stance against dorf? the Dragons are going to lazily sit in their homes and let the mortal races deal with this?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I assume the more powerful entities in Azeroth are not going to make much of a stance against dorf? the Dragons are going to lazily sit in their homes and let the mortal races deal with this?

It's possible, given their general attitude.

Well powerwise this is easy to tell, but Ganon can be manipulative.

Where is he for 10 years exactly? in his own realm, then he gets ported to Azeroth or does he get to travel Azeroth for 10 years before they assault him or something?

Ganondorf's only source of information on Azeroth is a magic mirror that answer all his questions. The answers are limited to the common knowledge in the world. He for example would not know that the Lich King is still alive, since the world thinks he is dead.

He will start preparing in his own world. For ten years, he can research Azeroth through the mirror and when ten years sharp has passed, a portal will open.

I am using the barrier surrounding Azeroth as an excuse of it taking ten years to open the portal

Ah I see, so he does not get 10 years to actually travel Azeroth, causing mischief and setting up puppets to control, fair enough. I dont think the question is whether or not he will conquer Azeroth, its when he will fail, he may not be taken seriously even after being found but this may prove to be a fatal flaw and he may gain a foothold but I think eventually, the alliance or the horde would topple his plans or he will find himself being used by one of them to hinder their enemies.

I assume Azeroth would not know of his prying eye? or know that he is going to appear in their world? (although I assume many wizards and entities, even lesser ones have some form of future/farsight)

If he's allowed to sit in the sacred realm and prepare an army and a plan for ten years, and his primary enemies are the alliance and the horde, I don't see phase one as being as hard as some think.

Thing is, he probably would not attack as soon as he was in Azeroth. He'd start enlarging his army further.

He might weaken them by ressurrecting some old threats, and sending them in first, Azeroth wouldn't know he was the source of the problems until he'd already gained a strong foothold, at which point he'd become a very similar threat to the Lich King and the Scourge.

Is he allowed to create a Dark Link along with the other powerful monsters he can create?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
he'd become a very similar threat to the Lich King and the Scourge.

Difference being the LK being more powerful and intelligent, had a sort of mental link to all his forces for full efficency, said forces having a very vast variety of threats from magic users that would put the best of Hyrule to shame to large undead contructs and dragons.

Also LK had in a way, technology because he used a combo of magic and undeath science to create a range of powerful weapons, Ganon does not have said tech.

The LK had to retreat due to poison.

Lol.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The LK had to retreat due to poison.

Lol.

"had to" not necesserily being true, he just decided to, a poison made especially to destroy other entities of undeath by the forsaken that pretty much killed everything else made the LK "cough".

At least was not killed by a kid with arrows of silver with the ultimate force of power in his land in his possession.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The LK had to retreat due to poison.

Lol.

He did inhale a poison that melted peoples faces. He walked away with a cough.

Not that its relevant, point being the scourge is vastly more powerful and probably more numerous more than anything Ganondorf can throw together. I mean taking into account that the strongest spellcasters that Ganon faced was perhaps the sages and the best showing I have seen/heard from them so far is levitating a sword and impaling him with it I dont think hes going to be able to cope with the fact that even some of the weaker spellcasters in Warcraft can do better with more variety. There is also a lot of them, every army in Azeroth has its own sect of spellcasters, even murlocs have some shamans who can toss lightning among other things.

You bait any harder BT and you'll have fish coming out of your ass.

I am not interested in a childish squabble in this thread as well, go and use another thread for your nonsense and actually post counters and arguments in this one.

You mean like you're doing?

Anyway I needed a post to expand on Azeroths abilities without double posting.

Azeroth have a large number of heroes, although not every single character in WoW is canon, the overall idea that Azeroth have numbers of heroes that they trained and tried against the LK (and indeed the main plot behind the LK own plan) makes it clear there are a lot of them. Ganons plans are undone by only one child, each faction in warcraft has their own champions who have each undergone trials before and after the trial of champions.

Ganon has a way with overlooking logistics and communication efforts, his goals are set around gaining power but yet despite all his minions and advantages he does not try and find out where his enemies are, a few small groups of heroes, say a few mages, paladins etc with the best equipment from each faction would be able to undermine him once he becomes a threat serious enough to require their attension.

Originally posted by Burning thought
he does not try and find out where his enemies are Incorrect.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You mean like you're doing?

Stop baiting.

No its not, show me him sending out all his henchman to find the one threat against him (which he knows of btw because hes faced the same fate many times and been beaten in the past). In TW he had all the world at his finger tips through Zant, his forces were vast yet his logisitcs were poor, this recurs.

Theres no way Link could get across a lot of the territories he does if Ganon bothered protecting the assets Link needs. He does not even bother learning about the realm he is conqueirng, the vast amount of knowledge each Link (who is a different person) comes across to find his way to each special object/person he requires to find is somehow beyond Ganon.

The fact alone that Ganon (main recuring character throughout all the games) gets beaten in similiar ways is incredible.

You should play a Zelda game before claiming that, BT.

You keep spamming that nonsense, its irrelevant to my point, me having played the game would not change my argument. I know the primary facts.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres no way Link could get across a lot of the territories he does if Ganon bothered protecting the assets Link needs. He does not even bother learning about the realm he is conqueirng, the vast amount of knowledge each Link (who is a different person) comes across to find his way to each special object/person he requires to find is somehow beyond Ganon.

You might think you know the primary facts, but you're missing something very important here. Reevaluate this, see if the wikis will allow you to figure it out.

This is where your confusing what a debate is.

Your supposed to counter me by doing this yourself and showing me how I am wrong if you think you can. I am not debating with myself here....

This is false.

It would, because you don't.

Ganon does keep tabs on Link, and he does do what he can to stop him from getting what he needs to put him away, as well. (You think temples randomly get full of monsters and bosses by accident?) If you'd play the games you'd know that each time he's lost has been because of circumstances that can hardly be called fair.

OoT: Link had already drawn the master sword, which sealed him away in the temple of light, unaccessable to Ganon for seven years. When Link returned the triforce had been split, and Ganon was using Link to bring Zelda out of hiding.

WW: He needed Link to pull the sword from it's pedestal to break the seal on his power which was placed on it in OoT.

TP: Alternate timeline, had no idea about the events of OoT other than what happened in the child timeline resulting in his execution by the sages, which was botched, and resulted in him being sent to the realm of Twilight. Zant did have the chance to beat Link, but screwed up by not killing him. Zant failed, not Ganon. Ganon wasn't present until the end of the game.

aLttP: Ganon is sealed away in the sacred realm, and cannot deal with Link directly.

Ganon given ten years of prep-time and the magic mirror Miria mentioned would have none of these problems. (No Link with unfair advantages.)

Scream sniped me.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This is false.

It would, because you don't.

Ganon does keep tabs on Link, and he does do what he can to stop him from getting what he needs to put him away, as well. If you'd play the games you'd know that each time he's lost has been because of circumstances that can hardly be called fair.

OoT: Link had already drawn the master sword, which sealed him away in the temple of light, unaccessable to Ganon for seven years. When Link returned the triforce had been split, and Ganon was using Link to bring Zelda out of hiding.

WW: He needed Link to pull the sword from it's pedestal to break the seal on his power which was placed on it in OoT.

TP: Alternate timeline, had no idea about the events of OoT other than what happened in the child timeline resulting in his execution by the sages, which was botched, and resulted in him being sent to the realm of Twilight. Zant did have the chance to beat Link, but screwed up by not killing him. Zant failed, not Ganon. Ganon wasn't present until the end of the game.

aLttP: Ganon is sealed away in the sacred realm, and cannot deal with Link directly.

OoT: unaccessable you say but not necesserily hidden? what was stopping Ganon from just putting all his soldiers around the temple of light and the only thing in Hyrule that could apprently stop him?

WW: I also knew this, this is pointed out in the video of the dragon breathing fire on Ganon, however that does not mean Ganon could not have had soldiers stopping Link from getting to him, or any other item for that matter.

TP: Ganons minion, poor shepherd blames his flock and all.

aLttP: There are hundreds of ways Ganon could have stopped link, depsite being sealed he possessed the Wizard who had the ear of the king and all the people in hyrule because they thought he was a hero. Nothings stopping Ganon from making sure Link or anyone for that matter cannot get to all these sacred places where he needs to get the silver arrows, MS upgrades, other special items etc


Also where are Links ancestors? the guys who teach him his moves?

And no, Ganon would not have Link running around by himself with some minor aid, he wouldnt have a child baring down on him, he would have legions of holy paladins each blessed with holy weapons, armour and if they really needed it, silver arrows.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No its not, show me him sending out all his henchman to find the one threat against him (which he knows of btw because hes faced the same fate many times and been beaten in the past). In TW he had all the world at his finger tips through Zant, his forces were vast yet his logisitcs were poor, this recurs.

Theres no way Link could get across a lot of the territories he does if Ganon bothered protecting the assets Link needs. He does not even bother learning about the realm he is conqueirng, the vast amount of knowledge each Link (who is a different person) comes across to find his way to each special object/person he requires to find is somehow beyond Ganon.

The fact alone that Ganon (main recuring character throughout all the games) gets beaten in similiar ways is incredible. In TP alone throughout the game he consistently has his minions patrolling the lands for Link, and sends the Bokoblin King to kill Link multiple times throughout the game. In OoT every single temple Link's assets were at, Ganon had protected them in various ways with monsters or with his own magic, such as when he froze over Zora's Domain or when he dried up Hylian Lake. In TP, he was not even in the same plane of existence yet was able to adequately guard and conquer several parts of Hyrule, and was able to send minions to kill Link at the same time. In WW he years before Link was ever born killed the Sages of the two temples and guarded them with his minions. He was able to safeguard the jewels that Link needed to raise the Tower of the Gods, and destroyed one of the locations where they were, though Jabun, the spirit that guarded it, escaped. The reason why Link gets what he needs is because he is just that ****ing good, despite the safeguards Link Mary Sues himself through all of it.

You would know all of this if you played the ****ing games.

Ganon didn't know where he was, the sword hid him from Ganon.


Dungeons randomly get filled with monsters and bosses by accident?

At this point Link wasn't a threat, and they had no prior knowledge of who or what he was, and Ganon wasn't even involved.

Aghi-Agihnig.. Ag-..THAT GUY was busy capturing the maidens while Link collected the pendants, which btw, were guarded.

You mean... Link?

Originally posted by Burning thought
OoT: unaccessable you say but not necesserily hidden? what was stopping Ganon from just putting all his soldiers around the temple of light and the only thing in Hyrule that could apprently stop him?

WW: I also knew this, this is pointed out in the video of the dragon breathing fire on Ganon, however that does not mean Ganon could not have had soldiers stopping Link from getting to him, or any other item for that matter.

TP: Ganons minion, poor shepherd blames his flock and all.

aLttP: There are hundreds of ways Ganon could have stopped link, depsite being sealed he possessed the Wizard who had the ear of the king and all the people in hyrule because they thought he was a hero. Nothings stopping Ganon from making sure Link or anyone for that matter cannot get to all these sacred places where he needs to get the silver arrows, MS upgrades, other special items etc


Also where are Links ancestors? the guys who teach him his moves?

The fact that Ganon needs him to bring Zelda out of hiding.

You're underestimating Link now. If I recall the Triforce of Courage is scattered in chests throughout the great sea in this game, and if Ganon wants the whole Triforce he needs Link to have the Triforce of Courage.

Zant needs Midna. Midna is with Link.

In the beginning of the game Link saved Zelda from the castle's dungeon. She then remains hidden until Link possesses the Master Sword, which he uses in an attempt to save her again. Agahnim teleports him to the Dark World where he gathers the jewels in each dungeon to save the maidens. Ganon needs these maidens to break the seal on the Dark World.

Dead.

Edit: Sniiiiiiped.

Originally posted by NemeBro
In TP alone throughout the game he consistently has his minions patrolling the lands for Link, and sends the Bokoblin King to kill Link multiple times throughout the game. In OoT every single temple Link's assets were at, Ganon had protected them in various ways with monsters or with his own magic, such as when he froze over Zora's Domain or when he dried up Hylian Lake. In TP, he was not even in the same plane of existence yet was able to adequately guard and conquer several parts of Hyrule, and was able to send minions to kill Link at the same time. In WW he years before Link was ever born killed the Sages of the two temples and guarded them with his minions. He was able to safeguard the jewels that Link needed to raise the Tower of the Gods, and destroyed one of the locations where they were, though Jabun, the spirit that guarded it, escaped. The reason why Link gets what he needs is because he is just that ****ing good, despite the safeguards Link Mary Sues himself through all of it.

You would know all of this if you played the ****ing games.

So your admitting he has no idea where all these legendary artifacts are that happen to beat him in all his games? because it sounds to me like hes still not guarding any of them.

So he attempts to protect them but fails miserably? thats even worse than what I thought, despite his power, minions etc a cihld overcomes protections?

Sounds like Ganon does not try hard at all to protect the one thing that can apprently defeat him in Hyrule, freezes lakes you say? sends a few minions? "sigh"

And somehow hes going to fight against Azeroth which is full of entities of light, dark and in between who all have their own powerful artifacts. Given time what chance does he even have, 10 years to do learn certain things yet at the end of it he is stuned by his own foolishness.

Which is less dangerous than Link. Without plot device protection he can bring his full power down on them.

Also, this silver arrow kick you're on. You've asserted they're > the light arrows which are divine power unleaded, and also asserted they do not have this power because they are not the same arrows. (they are.) Prove your assertions.

Obviously silver > divine power makes no sense.

Originally posted by Burning thought
OoT: unaccessable you say but not necesserily hidden? what was stopping Ganon from just putting all his soldiers around the temple of light and the only thing in Hyrule that could apprently stop him?

WW: I also knew this, this is pointed out in the video of the dragon breathing fire on Ganon, however that does not mean Ganon could not have had soldiers stopping Link from getting to him, or any other item for that matter.

TP: Ganons minion, poor shepherd blames his flock and all.

aLttP: There are hundreds of ways Ganon could have stopped link, depsite being sealed he possessed the Wizard who had the ear of the king and all the people in hyrule because they thought he was a hero. Nothings stopping Ganon from making sure Link or anyone for that matter cannot get to all these sacred places where he needs to get the silver arrows, MS upgrades, other special items etc


Also where are Links ancestors? the guys who teach him his moves?

And no, Ganon would not have Link running around by himself with some minor aid, he wouldnt have a child baring down on him, he would have legions of holy paladins each blessed with holy weapons, armour and if they really needed it, silver arrows. 1. Him not having an army or a Triforce of Power maybe? At that point Ganondorf only had the Gerudos, who would be no match for Hyrule. And said Temple is located in Hyrule's capital city, so he could not secretly safeguard it. You would know this if you played the games.

2. Only...He does. And Link kills them.

3. Considering Ganon not even being present in the dimension, yet managing to conquer most of Hyrule, it is pretty impressive. Ganondorf did not have direct control of Zant, Zant followed him due to faith in his power and because his power came directly from Ganon, Zant did not kill Link, and it was Zant's failing.

4. He does guard said sacred places. And what would him controlling Aghanim do? He could not convince the king to bear his armies down on some kid. And at the start of the game...I am pretty sure he does try to kill him, but Aghanim is stopped by Link's uncle, who sacrifices himself.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So your admitting he has no idea where all these legendary artifacts are that happen to beat him in all his games? because it sounds to me like hes still not guarding any of them.

So he attempts to protect them but fails miserably? thats even worse than what I thought, despite his power, minions etc a cihld overcomes protections?

Sounds like Ganon does not try hard at all to protect the one thing that can apprently defeat him in Hyrule, freezes lakes you say? sends a few minions? "sigh"

And somehow hes going to fight against Azeroth which is full of entities of light, dark and in between who all have their own powerful artifacts. Given time what chance does he even have, 10 years to do learn certain things yet at the end of it he is stuned by his own foolishness. 1. I never said that. Nowhere in my post was that implied. You're illiterate as well? Explains alot.

2. A child. In TP, Link is about 18. About fully grown. In OoT, Link is only a child when Ganondorf does not possess much power, and is a fully grown adult. In WW he is a child...Yet said child manages to fight and kill monsters over twice his size with simple swordplay. Not including all of the items he has in the games. You try to downplay Link by calling him a "child" yet ignore all of his accomplishments, because apparently Link's age means they are by default unimpressive. An idiotic, blundering notion put forth by someone who must grasp any straw he can find.

3. He froze over a city. He safeguards them with numerous monsters, magic, and traps. You're ignoring this because you lack the intellect to actually debate this logically.

4. I don't really care whether or not he could conquer Azeroth. But you're lying to try to support your side.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Him not having an army or a Triforce of Power maybe? At that point Ganondorf only had the Gerudos, who would be no match for Hyrule. And said Temple is located in Hyrule's capital city, so he could not secretly safeguard it. You would know this if you played the games.

2. Only...He does. And Link kills them.

3. Considering Ganon not even being present in the dimension, yet managing to conquer most of Hyrule, it is pretty impressive. Ganondorf did not have direct control of Zant, Zant followed him due to faith in his power and because his power came directly from Ganon, Zant did not kill Link, and it was Zant's failing.

4. He does guard said sacred places. And what would him controlling Aghanim do? He could not convince the king to bear his armies down on some kid. And at the start of the game...I am pretty sure he does try to kill him, but Aghanim is stopped by Link's uncle, who sacrifices himself.

1. hyrule but surely link alone? and I have lost track of the amount of times Ganon has been said to be still incredibly poweful without nay triforce aid. If I had such power I would wait outside the temple of light and wait for the would be hero or put someone there at least. Could not secretly safeguard it? the guy through one possession in aLttP had the whole of hyrule trusting him.

2. So as I said, his underestimated Link? whats to say he wouldnt underestimate the hundreds of powerful entities, both holy or otherwise in Azeroth?

3. Does not negate the point, Ganon should surely know from his previous defeats that finding all the items Link requires before Link does is perhaps even more important than conquering Hyrule itself. (infact conquering hyrule seems the easiest thing to do in each of his games).

4. What lol? this is terrible, he does indeed have such political sway over hyrule yet he couldnt even guard some areas, he didnt have to necesserily kill him (not that someone with such political sway could not have bribed a few thugs) he could just have guarded it. Links uncle, how powerful is links uncle?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Which is less dangerous than Link. Without plot device protection he can bring his full power down on them.

Also, this silver arrow kick you're on. You've asserted they're > the light arrows which are divine power unleaded, and also asserted they do not have this power because they are not the same arrows. (they are.) Prove your assertions.

Obviously silver > divine power makes no sense.

I have proved their silver arrows, unless your argument is against the game itself which says they defeat trueforce ganon?

its common sense really, trueforce ganon killed/defeated by arrows of silver, a mere triforce of power ganon only stunned by light arrows....thats all there is to it.

Also you bring up this "divine power" but that sounds just like a title. Where are the feats behind the specific divine power within the light arrows?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ganon didn't know where he was, the sword hid him from Ganon.


Dungeons randomly get filled with monsters and bosses by accident?

At this point Link wasn't a threat, and they had no prior knowledge of who or what he was, and Ganon wasn't even involved.

Aghi-Agihnig.. Ag-..THAT GUY was busy capturing the maidens while Link collected the pendants, which btw, were guarded.

You mean... Link?

hid him, but not itself? what about the temple of light itself? your speaking a lot about the main items that harm ganon but not all those items and puzzles Link has to get to to even get to these places. Its not like Hyrule is tiny.


Link was not a thread? so I guess hubris is another weakness on Ganons list.

So once again Ganons tactics have much to be desired?

It's also worth noting here that Ganon was manipulating Link in order to gain the triforce of courage, and that's why he didn't just kill him when they met outside the castle gates.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. I never said that. Nowhere in my post was that implied. You're illiterate as well? Explains alot.

2. A child. In TP, Link is about 18. About fully grown. In OoT, Link is only a child when Ganondorf does not possess much power, and is a fully grown adult. In WW he is a child...Yet said child manages to fight and kill monsters over twice his size with simple swordplay. Not including all of the items he has in the games. You try to downplay Link by calling him a "child" yet ignore all of his accomplishments, because apparently Link's age means they are by default unimpressive. An idiotic, blundering notion put forth by someone who must grasp any straw he can find.

3. He froze over a city. He safeguards them with numerous monsters, magic, and traps. You're ignoring this because you lack the intellect to actually debate this logically.

4. I don't really care whether or not he could conquer Azeroth. But you're lying to try to support your side.

1. You always say that, you cannot even see further meanings in your own words, if hes got all this power yet he cannot guard the places, areas close to where all these items are then he is a poor ruler/co-ordinator.

2. So you agree that Ganons minions are pretty pathetic, a child could never fight his way through the smallest fort/castle under the LK's control. lol all your attacks are meaningless, you should know that by now, your "blundering notion" is that these monsters and creatures are powerful, or that Ganon is, it does not defeat the fact its a little child doing all this and he has to find most of his items.

3. logically? your forgetting the key in this logic, a child defeated all these traps, Link hardly holds the triforce of wisdom here....and hes not got the power of most of his allies until he finally finds the items he requires.

4. Not lying, these are facts. Ganon is beaten by a whelp in most cases, saying he had various items at his disposal to beat Ganon or outside help does not defeat the fact Link has a whole game (or several) worth to find all these items, each could be guarded in some way.

Azeroth does not have "various items" they have entire factions worth of paladins, holy weapons and powerful items and more silver arrows than you can shake a stick at.

He was using Link to get the triforce.

Reading comprehension FTW.

Ganon in TP had no knowledge of the events of OoT. Timeline split, remember? This is his first time being beaten by Link. He had no idea.


No, you have not.

Leaves a lot of places a kid who disappears randomly could possibly be hiding. It's not liek the sword yelled out to Ganon "OKAI, I'M GONNA GO HIDE IN TEH SACRED REALMZ AND TAKE LINK WITH MEH.", and even if it had, you need the master sword to open and close the sacred realm.

Because you always fail to comprehend the words you read.

I don't see where he agreed with you. And Link as a child could.

He has the triforce of courage, and whether or not he's a child is irrelevant when you consider what that "child" has been shown to be capable of: ruining shit. Also, what's this second part based on? You're own wild mass guessing?

You are lying, they are not facts, and calling Link a whelp only helps to display your own bias.

Like we keep telling you, they are guarded.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. hyrule but surely link alone? and I have lost track of the amount of times Ganon has been said to be still incredibly poweful without nay triforce aid. If I had such power I would wait outside the temple of light and wait for the would be hero or put someone there at least. Could not secretly safeguard it? the guy through one possession in aLttP had the whole of hyrule trusting him.

2. So as I said, his underestimated Link? whats to say he wouldnt underestimate the hundreds of powerful entities, both holy or otherwise in Azeroth?

3. Does not negate the point, Ganon should surely know from his previous defeats that finding all the items Link requires before Link does is perhaps even more important than conquering Hyrule itself. (infact conquering hyrule seems the easiest thing to do in each of his games).

4. What lol? this is terrible, he does indeed have such political sway over hyrule yet he couldnt even guard some areas, he didnt have to necesserily kill him (not that someone with such political sway could not have bribed a few thugs) he could just have guarded it. Links uncle, how powerful is links uncle? 1. Link alone who is able to kill hordes of monsters and giant creatures? He is powerful. Enough to single-handedly conquer Hyrule? No. Also, he used Link to open the Door of Time, so Ganondorf could take the Triforce. The Triforce splitting was something Ganondorf could not have predicted, no failing of his. Also, this is a young Ganondorf, one who did not know of the power of the Master Sword, possibly not even of its existence. In aLttP he had the full Triforce, and the difference is there would be no reason to safeguard the Temple of Time in te eyes of Hylians...And with what? He controlled no vast armies, more like a band of thieves.

2. Link>>>Any random ****ing Paladin. Just since no one else said it. And you seem to, as you usually do, not be seeing the point. Ganondorf did not "underestimate" Link's abilities, Link is just able to Mary Sue his way through Ganondorf's forces, there is no counter for Mary Suing like that.

3. ...He always safeguards them. ALWAYS. I do not know how many more times I can repeat this point until it eventually reaches? Do you think hordes of minions are in the Temples Link needs to go into for no reason? Oh wait, you do not actually play the games, so you do not know what is guarding the temples.

4. ...No he doesn't. In fact, what real political sway did Ganon have? Inform me. =| Aghanim was a hero, but he did not have direct control over Hyrule, he was an advisor at best. A few thugs would have been sufficient to kill Link now? Do you even listen to yourself? Or are you deliberately baiting? Link's uncle was powerful enough to die. All he did was sacrifice himself so Link could live.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He was using Link to get the triforce.

Reading comprehension FTW.

Ganon in TP had no knowledge of the events of OoT. Timeline split, remember? This is his first time being beaten by Link. He had no idea.


No, you have not.

Leaves a lot of places a kid who disappears randomly could possibly be hiding. It's not liek the sword yelled out to Ganon "OKAI, I'M GONNA GO HIDE IN TEH SACRED REALMZ AND TAKE LINK WITH MEH.", and even if it had, you need the master sword to open and close the sacred realm.

1. How does that stop him from preparing for Link, and what triforce piece, surely he would know Zelda has wisdom since he apprently posseses her. If he wants courage, what was his plan of somehow getting it from link? its obviously flawed.

2. I know that hes not been beaten by Link, but hes been defeated by the sages. He is in the twilight/dark realm because he was defeated, surely he would actually attempt to explore this world and make sure any of Links items he requires or any items in general. Especially after he knows Link is there attempting to stop him, and Midna helping him.

3. true, the fairy proved their silver arrows, I just showed the vid claiming it so.

4. The sword, but not all the items Link needs unless your saying 99% of links items apart from the sword are optional and are not required?

There is SO MUCH WRONG HERE, I have no idea where to START.

1. Link disappeared, and Ganon had no way of knowing Link had the ToC.
2. The triforce split could not have been foreseen, this is the first game in the timeline.
3. He possesses Zelda in TP, not OoT, now you're mixing and matching games. She did not have the ToW at this point, Midna did.
4. His plan is to take the triforce from Link by force, the problem being Link's really ****ing good, and has plot device protection from the bulk of Ganon's power.

The rest of your post makes no sense and is largely gibberish.

Learn to read so your replies make sense.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Link alone who is able to kill hordes of monsters and giant creatures? He is powerful. Enough to single-handedly conquer Hyrule? No. Also, he used Link to open the Door of Time, so Ganondorf could take the Triforce. The Triforce splitting was something Ganondorf could not have predicted, no failing of his. Also, this is a young Ganondorf, one who did not know of the power of the Master Sword, possibly not even of its existence. In aLttP he had the full Triforce, and the difference is there would be no reason to safeguard the Temple of Time in te eyes of Hylians...And with what? He controlled no vast armies, more like a band of thieves.

2. Link>>>Any random ****ing Paladin. Just since no one else said it. And you seem to, as you usually do, not be seeing the point. Ganondorf did not "underestimate" Link's abilities, Link is just able to Mary Sue his way through Ganondorf's forces, there is no counter for Mary Suing like that.

3. ...He always safeguards them. ALWAYS. I do not know how many more times I can repeat this point until it eventually reaches? Do you think hordes of minions are in the Temples Link needs to go into for no reason? Oh wait, you do not actually play the games, so you do not know what is guarding the temples.

4. ...No he doesn't. In fact, what real political sway did Ganon have? Inform me. =| Aghanim was a hero, but he did not have direct control over Hyrule, he was an advisor at best. A few thugs would have been sufficient to kill Link now? Do you even listen to yourself? Or are you deliberately baiting? Link's uncle was powerful enough to die. All he did was sacrifice himself so Link could live.

1. not as powerful as Ganon or so youve told me. Not without all his equipment. Under Agahaem or w/e he had hyrules ear, Ganon himself had Gerudos, surely they could hinder one child....

2. I lold, random? each paladin has a vast amount of holy powers, the kind Link would be jelous of, all it takes is a few items considered divine or blessed by weak sages to defeat Ganondorf. Thats not an argument, dont deny it, Ganondorf underestimates all his foes.

3. oh please with what? with his island destroying powers he should be able to bury the temples even if their holy powers dont allow him to get inside.

4. He had Agahaim who had the ear of the King himself and your trying to argue that he couldnt bribe/talk a few guards into getting his hands on a kid? or guarding the temple... Link from the beginning, and can you actually show the scene of Agahim killing Links uncle? sounds amusing for a guy whos prob featless stopping Ganons possessed wizard for even a moment.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
There is SO MUCH WRONG HERE, I have no idea where to START.

1. Link disappeared, and Ganon had no way of knowing Link had the ToC.
2. The triforce split could not have been foreseen, this is the first game in the timeline.
3. He possesses Zelda in TP, not OoT, now you're mixing and matching games. She did not have the ToW at this point, Midna did.
4. His plan is to take the triforce from Link by force, the problem being Link's really ****ing good, and has plot device protection from the bulk of Ganon's power.

The rest of your post makes no sense and is largely gibberish.

Learn to read so your replies make sense.


Yeh nice bait and aggression, meaningless to me.

point 4 however is interesting, apprently he was going to use force anyway, so all this "hes using link to get the triforce" is BS?

Also it seems your calling everything a plot device, its possible Ganons just not that powerful.

What have you done, Miria? What have you done...

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. You always say that, you cannot even see further meanings in your own words, if hes got all this power yet he cannot guard the places, areas close to where all these items are then he is a poor ruler/co-ordinator.

2. So you agree that Ganons minions are pretty pathetic, a child could never fight his way through the smallest fort/castle under the LK's control. lol all your attacks are meaningless, you should know that by now, your "blundering notion" is that these monsters and creatures are powerful, or that Ganon is, it does not defeat the fact its a little child doing all this and he has to find most of his items.

3. logically? your forgetting the key in this logic, a child defeated all these traps, Link hardly holds the triforce of wisdom here....and hes not got the power of most of his allies until he finally finds the items he requires.

4. Not lying, these are facts. Ganon is beaten by a whelp in most cases, saying he had various items at his disposal to beat Ganon or outside help does not defeat the fact Link has a whole game (or several) worth to find all these items, each could be guarded in some way.

Azeroth does not have "various items" they have entire factions worth of paladins, holy weapons and powerful items and more silver arrows than you can shake a stick at. 1. I never said that, I know that reading my post must be hard for someone of such feeble intelligence, but try to bear with me, kay? Like everyone has said, Ganon does guard said places. Yet you for some reason say he doesn't.

Tell me Tom. What makes you think you know how much effort Ganondorf puts forth in guarding these areas? You, who have never played a Zelda game?

2. A child. Once again, you are ignoring that since Link is a fictional character, him being a child does not necessarily mean a thing in regard to his power. I know children in fiction who could conquer Azeroth in a couple minutes, and then solo the entire Pantheon of Titans. Link being a "child" means absolutely nothing, when said child is able to black an attack from a Moblin, a creature over twice his size. You grasp at this straw constantly, yet no one else is buying it.

3. So these traps must be simple, RITE!? Because a child did them, GANON IS CLEARLY UNABLE TO MAKE TRAPS A CHILD COULDN'T SOLVE, RITE!?!?!?!?!?!? Or...Maybe Link is more intelligent than the average kid, to fit with all his other Suish traits? Link as a child is able to do what the adults of Hyrule cannot. Him being a child means nothing, something someone like you is unable to grasp.

4. And are.

Link>>>>>>Random Paladin.

mariofacepalm
No...

Before any of them have a piece of the triforce, Ganon manipulates Link into openning the door of time.

AFTER; the triforce splits, something no one could have foreseen. No one even knew Link had the triforce of courage until the end of OoT, and THEN Ganon tries to take it by force, after he'd already manipulated Link into handing him the ToP, and Zelda, who had the ToW. He had to take the last piece by force, because Link has that plot device protection I keep mentioning.

No, I'm telling you that the sword and ToC are powerful plot devices, not calling "everything" a plot device.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. I never said that, I know that reading my post must be hard for someone of such feeble intelligence, but try to bear with me, kay? Like everyone has said, Ganon does guard said places. Yet you for some reason say he doesn't.

Tell me Tom. What makes you think you know how much effort Ganondorf puts forth in guarding these areas? You, who have never played a Zelda game?

2. A child. Once again, you are ignoring that since Link is a fictional character, him being a child does not necessarily mean a thing in regard to his power. I know children in fiction who could conquer Azeroth in a couple minutes, and then solo the entire Pantheon of Titans. Link being a "child" means absolutely nothing, when said child is able to black an attack from a Moblin, a creature over twice his size. You grasp at this straw constantly, yet no one else is buying it.

3. So these traps must be simple, RITE!? Because a child did them, GANON IS CLEARLY UNABLE TO MAKE TRAPS A CHILD COULDN'T SOLVE, RITE!?!?!?!?!?!? Or...Maybe Link is more intelligent than the average kid, to fit with all his other Suish traits? Link as a child is able to do what the adults of Hyrule cannot. Him being a child means nothing, something someone like you is unable to grasp.

4. And are.

Link>>>>>>Random Paladin.

1. He doesnt so much as guard them as post a couple of people there by the sound of it. If I were him, I would send my whole force around at least one major item he needs to complete the game.

I dont know Shane, maybe the fact he apparently has so much power without even any triforce yet a child happens to get past any defence.

2. If were comparing feats, physical ability etc then yes, its important. let me guess, these children are more than little guys wearing green hats?

3. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions, I am using fact,s Link is a child, Link beats them....two facts, your assumptions are that Link is vastly more intelligent than a child despite probably having a medieval education and his logic skills being what? nothing? and more importantly the assumption that Ganons traps anything more than petty/pathetic as are all his attempts at stopping link it seems. Since when have the adults of hyrule attemptd?

4.

Based on what exactly? his whole repetoire of items from the get go? Ganons not beaten by Links strength, intelligence, physical ability or w/e he just gets foiled because of short sightedness or lazyness and then gets owned by a child, as do his schemes.

random paladin has a lot of holy powers, whats Link got? arrows and a sword.....paladins can have that along with holy armour and a vast amount of spells.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
mariofacepalm
No...

Before any of them have a piece of the triforce, Ganon manipulates Link into openning the door of time.

AFTER; the triforce splits, something no one could have foreseen. No one even knew Link had the triforce of courage until the end of OoT, and THEN Ganon tries to take it by force, after he'd already manipulated Link into handing him the ToP, and Zelda, who had the ToW. He had to take the last piece by force, because Link has that plot device protection I keep mentioning.

No, I'm telling you that the sword and ToC are powerful plot devices, not calling "everything" a plot device.

Ok, so he opens the door of time, why does he use Link? any specific reason?


pretty much the items that defeat dorf, anything that can beat him has to be a plot device "sigh", looking at the background of these items their not impressive. ToC can be assumed to be powerful but the sword not so. It would<<<Ashbringer

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. not as powerful as Ganon or so youve told me. Not without all his equipment. Under Agahaem or w/e he had hyrules ear, Ganon himself had Gerudos, surely they could hinder one child....

2. I lold, random? each paladin has a vast amount of holy powers, the kind Link would be jelous of, all it takes is a few items considered divine or blessed by weak sages to defeat Ganondorf. Thats not an argument, dont deny it, Ganondorf underestimates all his foes.

3. oh please with what? with his island destroying powers he should be able to bury the temples even if their holy powers dont allow him to get inside.

4. He had Agahaim who had the ear of the King himself and your trying to argue that he couldnt bribe/talk a few guards into getting his hands on a kid? or guarding the temple... Link from the beginning, and can you actually show the scene of Agahim killing Links uncle? sounds amusing for a guy whos prob featless stopping Ganons possessed wizard for even a moment. 1. Who is not as powerful as Ganon? I know it is hard to read for you BT, you should prolly work on that before posting on the forums. Link needs only his sword to kill most creatures in the game. He was an advisor. He could not muster an army. The Gerudos? A bunch of skinny desert women kill Link, when hordes of monsters could not? GTFO.

2. Considering Link's holy items can seal Ganondorf, they>>>Paladins. It takes a few items created by world making Gods. God made sword>>>Random Pally. Light Arrows utterly annihilate anything but Ganon that they are shot at, they only stun Ganondorf. Ganon underestimates his foes? Is that why he makes sure to safeguard every threat Link could use, and is that why the first thing he had Zant do was subdue the Light Spirits?

3. With gigantic monsters no normal child can defeat, but Link does? Oh...And he DOES destroy an island so that Link cannot claim an item that can be used against him. He freezes over a city for the same purpose, and he killed/captured the Gorons, a race of super strong living rocks, to keep the Fire Temple safeguarded. He also resurrected an ancient dragon.

4. A kid who kills monsters every five minutes? Oh, and you can fight castle guards, Link easily fells them. He went to fight Aghanim and told Link to run, we do not see it. And Aghanim was not really all that powerful. And no, **** you, I'm not getting anything for someone who doesn't even play the games they claim to know so much about.

Link has the spiritual stone of the forest, and access to Princess Zelda, who has the ocarina of time, and gives it to Link.

Link assembles the stones, and does all the work for Ganon, openning the door of time.

I lol'd.
Things that are explicitly plot devices, are plot devices. The fact they're needed to beat Ganon is sort of related to that, y'know?

Both have shown themselves to be powerful, and are stated to be so, you have no argument.

In ALttP, Aganhim does set the army on Link. He'd mind controlled all the soldiers of Hyrule and told the population that Link had kidnapped the Princess (rescued her from him, actually.) There were guards hunting him at all times, and even the citizens of Hyrule were calling the guards on him.

Aganhim managed to get close to the King by causing plagues, earthquakes, and other natural disasters and then solving them with magic. He was made an advisor, then killed the King and took over. Then he set the military on Link.

Just to clear it up.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. He doesnt so much as guard them as post a couple of people there by the sound of it. If I were him, I would send my whole force around at least one major item he needs to complete the game.

I dont know Shane, maybe the fact he apparently has so much power without even any triforce yet a child happens to get past any defence.

2. If were comparing feats, physical ability etc then yes, its important. let me guess, these children are more than little guys wearing green hats?

3. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions, I am using fact,s Link is a child, Link beats them....two facts, your assumptions are that Link is vastly more intelligent than a child despite probably having a medieval education and his logic skills being what? nothing? and more importantly the assumption that Ganons traps anything more than petty/pathetic as are all his attempts at stopping link it seems. Since when have the adults of hyrule attemptd?

4.

Based on what exactly? his whole repetoire of items from the get go? Ganons not beaten by Links strength, intelligence, physical ability or w/e he just gets foiled because of short sightedness or lazyness and then gets owned by a child, as do his schemes.

random paladin has a lot of holy powers, whats Link got? arrows and a sword.....paladins can have that along with holy armour and a vast amount of spells. 1. A couple of people? The dungeons/temples are consistently filled with numerous monsters, traps, and at least one "boss" monster to hinder Link. You would send your entire force to guard a single item? Why? So it would be pathetically easy for Link to get the other items? =| Your idea of tactics is humorous.

He's not a normal child. That is what you consistently ignore. The moment Link walked into the Deku Tree and killed Gohma with a sword and slingshot, he stopped being a normal Child.

2. Link is more than one, as everyone has pointed at, but you consistently ignore. Moblins are bigger than adult humans, and Link can block their blows and kill them. Obviously, any child is capable of such feats, right?

3. Link is a child who is able to fight his way through armies and solve complex traps, though you would not know that as you have never played the game, yet are somehow of the impression you know what you are talking about and are not an egotistical buffoon. My "proof" is the fact that Link is able to solve these traps and maneuver these dungeons and do all he does, which PROVES Link is not the average child, the average child cannot navigate an ocean by himself. You ASSUME they are pathetic, you can do nothing but assume since you never ****ing played the games. Since when? Gee, maybe when Ganon killed the king in OoT and left Hyrule city in chaos? Or maybe when the Gorons, super strong rock people, attempted but were killed/captured.

4. He gets beaten because he is usually not in a position to physically stop Link himself, and his minions are not powerful enough to stop Link. He always safeguards threats to him, but of course in typical Burning Fanboy fashion you will ignore my post and make the same claim next one.

Arrows which completely disintegrate any enemy but Ganon, and a sword which is among the only weapons that can harm Ganon. Link also has physical strength via magic items that place him at able to lift multiple tons each game, how strong they are varies each game. Link almost always gets magic armor in the game.

Originally posted by The Scenario
In ALttP, Aganhim does set the army on Link. He'd mind controlled all the soldiers of Hyrule and told the population that Link had kidnapped the Princess (rescued her from him, actually.) There were guards hunting him at all times, and even the citizens of Hyrule were calling the guards on him.

Aganhim managed to get close to the King by causing plagues, earthquakes, and other natural disasters and then solving them with magic. He was made an advisor, then killed the King and took over. Then he set the military on Link.

Just to clear it up. Shitpaste, is this true?

Have not played aLttP in too long to tell.

Actually, yes, it is.

Huh. Neat.

So even Aghanim was able to cause plagues, earthquakes and shit.

Oh, wait, I seem to have gotten one part wrong.



http://www.zeldawiki.org/Agahnim#cite_note-0

No earthquakes, sorry, just plagues and droughts that were immune to conventional magic. And at least one fire no one else could extinguish.

..And here we again, coming full-circle to what I said 4 pages ago...

Aside from his already considerable ability to use force, it's very possible Ganon would manipulate an organisation such as the horde or alliance, saving his own forces for when they're needed. (Which would be continually growing as Azeroth took casualties, as well as his penchant for creating powerful minions, he's a powerful necromancer.)

Particularly considering the OP states he's attempting to rule Azeroth, not conquer it. It's entirely possible he would slip into Azeroth on his own to put whatever machinations he developed in his ten year study of the land. I could see Ganondorf assuming control without having to even having to summon his minions, or better, he could establish a political foothold, then use his army as an "invasion" scenario to rocket to supreme power, a la Palpatine.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Ganondorf could probably find a way to summon a demonlord like Kil'jaeden, given 10 years.

That wouldn't help him win.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link has the spiritual stone of the forest, and access to Princess Zelda, who has the ocarina of time, and gives it to Link.

Link assembles the stones, and does all the work for Ganon, openning the door of time.

I lol'd.
Things that are explicitly plot devices, are plot devices. The fact they're needed to beat Ganon is sort of related to that, y'know?

Both have shown themselves to be powerful, and are stated to be so, you have no argument.


Canonically hes had few things actually hit him, so whether or not he can be killed by something else, saying their the only things that can kill him is a no limit fallacy.

Nah, MS is not powerful, its a sword/key, thats all.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Who is not as powerful as Ganon? I know it is hard to read for you BT, you should prolly work on that before posting on the forums. Link needs only his sword to kill most creatures in the game. He was an advisor. He could not muster an army. The Gerudos? A bunch of skinny desert women kill Link, when hordes of monsters could not? GTFO.

2. Considering Link's holy items can seal Ganondorf, they>>>Paladins. It takes a few items created by world making Gods. God made sword>>>Random Pally. Light Arrows utterly annihilate anything but Ganon that they are shot at, they only stun Ganondorf. Ganon underestimates his foes? Is that why he makes sure to safeguard every threat Link could use, and is that why the first thing he had Zant do was subdue the Light Spirits?

3. With gigantic monsters no normal child can defeat, but Link does? Oh...And he DOES destroy an island so that Link cannot claim an item that can be used against him. He freezes over a city for the same purpose, and he killed/captured the Gorons, a race of super strong living rocks, to keep the Fire Temple safeguarded. He also resurrected an ancient dragon.

4. A kid who kills monsters every five minutes? Oh, and you can fight castle guards, Link easily fells them. He went to fight Aghanim and told Link to run, we do not see it. And Aghanim was not really all that powerful. And no, **** you, I'm not getting anything for someone who doesn't even play the games they claim to know so much about.

1. Link without MS or light arrows, hell even with them hes technically weaker. he was a respected adviser with the ear of the king, and as Scenario said, he could control the army. hordes of daft monsters who prob shove themselves into a fight, if these Gerudo are skilled thieves a few of them shield be able to stealth him.

2. When has Ganondorf been wounded by any weapon other than the MS? the only other one that I have seen is the light sword the sages used and that pierced through him. Paladins have a vast amount of holy powers, armour, and weaponry as well as training>>>Link vs Ganon. Names and titles lol....not sure I have seen a cutscene of the arrows one hitting something. Safeguard it with poor defences, with all his powers you would have thought he can do better than a few weak monsters that a child can beat.

3. Link has no reason to be any more wise than any child, or skilled for that matter, the fact he surpasses it is just as likely a reason for them being weak, more so than him being strong since apart from all his items hes not had any special powers granted him.

4. been covered.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. A couple of people? The dungeons/temples are consistently filled with numerous monsters, traps, and at least one "boss" monster to hinder Link. You would send your entire force to guard a single item? Why? So it would be pathetically easy for Link to get the other items? =| Your idea of tactics is humorous.

He's not a normal child. That is what you consistently ignore. The moment Link walked into the Deku Tree and killed Gohma with a sword and slingshot, he stopped being a normal Child.

2. Link is more than one, as everyone has pointed at, but you consistently ignore. Moblins are bigger than adult humans, and Link can block their blows and kill them. Obviously, any child is capable of such feats, right?

3. Link is a child who is able to fight his way through armies and solve complex traps, though you would not know that as you have never played the game, yet are somehow of the impression you know what you are talking about and are not an egotistical buffoon. My "proof" is the fact that Link is able to solve these traps and maneuver these dungeons and do all he does, which PROVES Link is not the average child, the average child cannot navigate an ocean by himself. You ASSUME they are pathetic, you can do nothing but assume since you never ****ing played the games. Since when? Gee, maybe when Ganon killed the king in OoT and left Hyrule city in chaos? Or maybe when the Gorons, super strong rock people, attempted but were killed/captured.

4. He gets beaten because he is usually not in a position to physically stop Link himself, and his minions are not powerful enough to stop Link. He always safeguards threats to him, but of course in typical Burning Fanboy fashion you will ignore my post and make the same claim next one.

Arrows which completely disintegrate any enemy but Ganon, and a sword which is among the only weapons that can harm Ganon. Link also has physical strength via magic items that place him at able to lift multiple tons each game, how strong they are varies each game. Link almost always gets magic armor in the game.

1. Certainly if it meant I cannot be stopped if he cannot get said item, get to said NPC to be told about another secret etc etc, without the light/silver arrows Link is hopeless, without the MS hes hopeless, without all the sages, Zelda, and the knowledge he gains from his various side kicks he would not have got as far. "numerous" probably meaning a few in each room?

He killed a guy so hes not a child? physically and mentally hes shown to be a child, unless you have legit cinematics to prove he is somehow a genius and is innately physically powerful.

2. Your assuming the Moblin is as strong as it looks yet you take no time is wondering if Link is actually as weak as he looks and the Moblin is the one who is actually weaker than he looks. Your argument is pretty much "link is small but powerful" but the Moblin is big, therefore a normal child could not beat it. From canon, we know Links not that much more (if not less so) intelligent or strong than a child.

3. I do know this, that does not mean the traps are advanced or the monsters are powerful. Your proof is apprently just the opposite of my proof, my proof is based on facts however not assumption. Links a child, fact, the puzzles are beaten therefore the puzzles and monsters are pathetic. Then you have to throw in the opposite only yours is an assumption, your assuming Link is somehow superhuman and mentally masterful because he can do them.

4. pff not powerful enough, their just pathetic and do not finish the job, Zant for example, Agahim (possessed by Ganon no less) and all these beasts Ganon unleashes. You know how serious the LK would be taken if a child defeated all his minions and reached him in Icecrown? not at all, the armies of the Horde and alliance would have laughed about him, which is what they will prob do when they find Ganon getting beaten by the local children wherever he decides to setup.

"Among the only weapons", based on? a few fallible statements from entities who have tried everything? (I doubt it). These items you realise are fairly featless? thats like me saying a Warcraft level 1 character can beat Ganon because they can get magic items and armour from the beginning of the game

BT, it's been stated that the only things in Zelda capable of harming Ganondorf were the MS and Light Arrows. Right off the bat, your post is incredibly stupid.

Because I am not interested in reading how Burning Thought shame the Warcraft universe, I will just ignore the ongoing debate and say the following:

Until Azeroth realize the magnitude of the threat, Ganondorf will burn a lot in his path. Once his power is comprehended, the reborn Council of Tirisfal will once again put out their new Guardian and Ganondorf should be banished after the fight of his life.

There is no way Ganondorf can rule Azeroth. He can claim it, but there are heroes that will be his bane. All this ignoring the return of Deathwing, since Ganondorf is done for if that happens.

I never read some much fail in my life....

Originally posted by Phanteros
I never read some much fail in my life....

Would you care to elaborate?

I've never seen someone so ignorant and clearly biased in my entire life. Congratulations.

While I could Just leave your post there to make you look foolish on it's own, I think I'll add insult to injury by tearing it apart.


1. Midna.
2. I see no no-limit fallacy, you're straw manning. GJ.


I get to do two things here:
1. Tell you to prove your assertion. (You can't.)
2. Tell you you're wrong. Something that wasn't powerful wouldn't be able to pin down the triforce of power, freezing all of Ganon's minions in time, reflect magic lightning, or stop Ganon's island busting power.
link-rape



Lol stealth him? Ignoring the fact that Link consistently defeats invisible enemies, can detect the perfectly silent sheik in a cutscene without her saying anything, and as Neme said, consistently fights of monsters more powerful than they are?




This happened before he got the ToP, as has already been mentioned.
link-rape


1. Kool. Link is much stronger and more skilled than a paladin, stuck the master sword in Ganon's face, and Ganon wasn't killed. This occured in a cutscene. link-rape
2. You'd need to prove the magic weapons and powers of the paladins are powerful enough to be effective. You won't though, you'll just try to downplay Zelda in any way you can, like you always do.

...No. This doesn't make any sense in any context that could possibly be replying to the point you're indicating it to be replying to. That's not surprising though, your arguments are typicly garbage.


Titles, lol.

The monsters are clearly not weak. Gohma, first boss in WW, swims in lava and can lift a chunk of rock which could be conservatively called "huge" and smash it into the ceiling of her chamber without apparent effort. Being a child doesn't make you weak.



He clearly is better than any child. Feel like telling the game it's not canon again? haermm



G.J. Now Link, the one man army, has every single piece of equipment, magic, and amp, minus 1 last item.. Good luck stopping him from getting it.
link-rape


Play a Zelda game, nothing he does, ever, could be done by a child.


LOLWUT.
Please, PLEASE prove this. I dare you to try.
Link is clearly very bright. In TP for example, he single handedly uncovers the ancient Oocca and sky city, which no one had been able to find out anythign about for centuries.


Big difference: Neme's proof makes sense within the context of Zelda canon.

You totally ignored the part where super-strong living rocks can't defend themselves from Ganon and his minions, and Link can, for example.

This is incredibly facepalm worthy.
Zant did "finish" the job. He essentially killed Midna and locked Link into a form where he could not fight Zant or Ganon. They had no way of foreseeing, or even knowing about the existance of the master sword.

The Lich King is fortunate he doesn't have to deal with Link.
link-rape
You didn't actually make any argument here, just trolled and baited.


They have more feats than a lot of characters, actually, nice failure. You ignore them though.

Also, standard magic equipment is nowhere close to on the level of the weapons needed to fight Ganon.

Originally posted by Utrigita
That wouldn't help him win.

Not in the long-term, no. It would be only a matter of time before KJ turned on him.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I've never seen someone so ignorant and clearly biased in my entire life. Congratulations.

While I could Just leave your post there to make you look foolish on it's own, I think I'll add insult to injury by tearing it apart.


1. Midna.
2. I see no no-limit fallacy, you're straw manning. GJ.


I get to do two things here:
1. Tell you to prove your assertion. (You can't.)
2. Tell you you're wrong. Something that wasn't powerful wouldn't be able to pin down the triforce of power, freezing all of Ganon's minions in time, reflect magic lightning, or stop Ganon's island busting power.
link-rape



Lol stealth him? Ignoring the fact that Link consistently defeats invisible enemies, can detect the perfectly silent sheik in a cutscene without her saying anything, and as Neme said, consistently fights of monsters more powerful than they are?




This happened before he got the ToP, as has already been mentioned.
link-rape


1. Kool. Link is much stronger and more skilled than a paladin, stuck the master sword in Ganon's face, and Ganon wasn't killed. This occured in a cutscene. link-rape
2. You'd need to prove the magic weapons and powers of the paladins are powerful enough to be effective. You won't though, you'll just try to downplay Zelda in any way you can, like you always do.

...No. This doesn't make any sense in any context that could possibly be replying to the point you're indicating it to be replying to. That's not surprising though, your arguments are typicly garbage.


Titles, lol.

The monsters are clearly not weak. Gohma, first boss in WW, swims in lava and can lift a chunk of rock which could be conservatively called "huge" and smash it into the ceiling of her chamber without apparent effort. Being a child doesn't make you weak.



He clearly is better than any child. Feel like telling the game it's not canon again? haermm



G.J. Now Link, the one man army, has every single piece of equipment, magic, and amp, minus 1 last item.. Good luck stopping him from getting it.
link-rape


Play a Zelda game, nothing he does, ever, could be done by a child.


LOLWUT.
Please, PLEASE prove this. I dare you to try.
Link is clearly very bright. In TP for example, he single handedly uncovers the ancient Oocca and sky city, which no one had been able to find out anythign about for centuries.


Big difference: Neme's proof makes sense within the context of Zelda canon.

You totally ignored the part where super-strong living rocks can't defend themselves from Ganon and his minions, and Link can, for example.

This is incredibly facepalm worthy.
Zant did "finish" the job. He essentially killed Midna and locked Link into a form where he could not fight Zant or Ganon. They had no way of foreseeing, or even knowing about the existance of the master sword.

The Lich King is fortunate he doesn't have to deal with Link.
link-rape
You didn't actually make any argument here, just trolled and baited.


They have more feats than a lot of characters, actually, nice failure. You ignore them though.

Also, standard magic equipment is nowhere close to on the level of the weapons needed to fight Ganon.

You couldnt tear any argument apart.

1. Who was never hitting him, GJ
2. That Ganon is immune to anything outside of the MS and light arrows, its also wrong, Link has to fight him without them in OoT

1. I dont have to prove a negative, I can claim a negative but I dont have to prove it, you need to make my negative (MS is not powerful) to a positive (MS is based on etc feats) youve failed to do so.
2. None of the legit feats you listed are powerful. The rest are lies

Thats not stealth, and Link detected Shiek and turned a long while later. Assuming Gerudos are at least human level of strength/speed and are worthy thieves (should be if their culture is based on it) then they could toss something through his neck with ease.

Hes not been hit by anything since then so making the assertion that he can not be pierced is wrong, this is where I am correct in asking you to prove this.

1. Stronger? hes a child.....unless he is using the GG and skilled? once again, hes not had the life of training a Paladin would have.
2. I dont have to prove this when Ganon has no durability feats, certainl against holy weapons. So far we just see him getting sliced quite easily by the MS or the holy sword.

let me guess ,its slow or has a major weakness that diddly link is quick enough to hit?

He is a child physically and from lack of canon evidence mentally as well.

Neme has no proof, he uses assumption, I am the only one with proof the difference is your bias towards what parts of the canon you want to belive and then you add your own fanon to strengthen the weak piecies that hold up your nonsense.


You didnt counter me at all, they did not finish the job, plain and simple.

Yes...right, your version of link...

The equipment link uses is pretty standard, arrows of silver>Ganon with the most powerful object in LoZ....

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Ganondorf convinces every guild, city and institutional government that he (or his subordinate) is the answer to all of their problems. Within 10 years, all political power is handed to him with little to no physical persuasive action.

Heck, Ganondorf has the ambition, sob story, and power to convince any nation to get under his dominance or be exterminated.

Would work, if the factions, institutions and guilds were his problem. It is specific individuals he should fear, and the greatest of orders, he can not touch with manipulation.

I can, and did.

Your entire post is just reposted points that've already been disproven or are just outright fallacious crap.

I have no further reason to respond to you, BT. Your argument was bad. I already killed it and did some pretty illegal things to it's corpse. I'll just leave it there.

link-rape

Ganondorf is a pretty cool guy. He's evil and powerful and doesn't afraid of anything.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
link-rape
link-rape
link-rape
link-rape

I imagine BT's demeanor is currently somewhere around here: gay_rage

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I can, and did.

Your entire post is just reposted points that've already been disproven or are just outright fallacious crap.

I have no further reason to respond to you, BT. Your argument was bad. I already killed it and did some pretty illegal things to it's corpse. I'll just leave it there.

link-rape

Denile as usual, go and copout Screamo, I will wait for a debator to argue this thread in due time and let the trolls flee back to their fanon.

Now, to reply to someone I like. This'll be a nice change.



I'm actually quite interested in how a battle between an Atiesh armed guardian and co. and Ganon would play out. That'd be a whole new thread though.

I dont think Ganon will be able to do much in private, he will just be ignored by the powers that can observe him but several entities from wizards to demons have forseen events before they happen or observed beyond their physical sight.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Now, to reply to someone I like. This'll be a nice change.



I'm actually quite interested in how a battle between an Atiesh armed guardian and co. and Ganon would play out. That'd be a whole new thread though.

Cho'gall in a sense was protected by the Gods, not very differently from how Ganondorf is, if I understood it right. It would not be overly surprising if a battle between a fully armed Med'an and Ganondorf would be the createst challenge Ganondorf ever has had.

Sure, Link beat him time and time again, but only thanks to the Master Sword. Here is a guy that can challenge him in terms of power.

This has piqued my interest. Would Cho'gall be the current guardian, or would the current guardian be equivelantly powerful?

Also, do you think they(the organisation as a whole) could rival Ganon's own by the time he was entrenched?

I really need to read more on this. mmm

Link is still awesome!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This has piqued my interest. Would Cho'gall be the current guardian, or would the current guardian be equivelantly powerful?

Also, do you think they(the organisation as a whole) could rival Ganon's own by the time he was entrenched?

I really need to read more on this. mmm

Link is still awesome!

http://wow.incgamers.com/gallery/data/500/medium/wow-24-chogal.jpg

Cho'gall was the villain. Med'an was the Guardian that fought him. Med'an has been directly transfered the remaining essence of Medivh's power, and he is the "child of the three realms". Med'an is potentially the most powerful Guardian ever and he has Atiesh.

The Council of Tirisfal has one significant advantage over Ganondorf. Through their pocket dimension, they can manage quite a lot. Track down individuals, cast magic and empower Med'an further.

My bad

mmm Is this pocket dimension particularly well guarded? Ganon's shown the ability to invade, break into/out of, and even merge dimensions. He could potentially attack this dimension directly, and assault the council.

Hard to say how protected it is. A very powerful demon invaded it, but only pulled it of by possessing Meryl and with his powers followed the link between Med'an and the Council that at the time empowered him. Because they channeled a spell, it was a simple task for the demon through the usage of Meryl to in spirit invade the realm.

They managed to close him out again, though, but he was close to absorbing their powers.

Well, Ganon along with having no respect for dimensional boundaries, has the ability to possess people. I don't think that given ten years to observe and plan the council could catch him off guard. If he struck the first blow, he would have the advantage of surprise, weakening a key threat. If they fight him off or kick him out, he's still done some damage, and he may be able to force the lock again another time.


The large amount of preperation time given to him here is very valuable, I think. It gives Ganon the chance to choose the terms on which he fights.

The main problem is that Phantom Miria said that Ganondorf only has access to common knowledge. The Council of Tirisfal is a secret organization. I am sure that ten years give him lots of chances to find ways to sneak past the restriction of information, but even if he was able to trick the system, only a dozen in the world know about Med'an and the council. Chances are slim that he learn anything about them.

True. mmm

BT, your hate for The Legend f Zelda seems really unfounded. And your debating style is strange. Instead of attempting to build Azeroth up, you're attempting to break Ganondorf down. could soomebody at least try saying Azeroth is strong instead of saying Ganondorf is weak?

Anyway,



1. Who was never hitting him, GJ
2. That Ganon is immune to anything outside of the MS and light arrows, its also wrong, Link has to fight him without them in OoT


Midna was quite clearly striking with her Trident, and then the castle exploded. Plus, he was attacked by Valoo and came out unharmed. If you want to say the attacks missed, you must prove it. The intention is supposed to be clear, and making the assumption that it is more complicated is a violation of Occam's Razor.

"The simplest explanation is usually the correct one." We see Ganondorf's giant floating head look up and growl. We then see Midna strike downward in the direction of Gannondorfs head. Then the castle explodes.

So based on the above, obviously Ganondorf dodged the attack, despite being litle more than a head, and then fired a blast from his non existent hands, which destroyed the castle. That is a huge leap of logic, and is contrary to every intention the scene is supposed to convey. It is much simpler to assume that the attack connected and destroyed the castle, but Ganondorf survived due to his previously stated invulnerability.

Both are assumptions. The only difference is that one is stupid and overly complicated, and the other fits in the context of the games.

Further, when Link fight Ganon without the Master Sword, he has at least 2 sacred weapons left: the Light Arrows and the Megaton Hammer. Both are able to damage him, but there isn't a canon way he fought Ganon. Besides, Ganon could not be defeated until Zelda held him in place and allowed Link to perform the Coup de Gras with he Master Sword.



You must prove it if you made the claim. Here, the claim is that the Master Sword is not powerful. You should use evidence of the Master Sword failing to do something. You are currently asking to be proven wrong, a violation of the Burden of Proof. Any claim, positive or negative, must be proven with supporting evidence.

There are statements from manuals that explicitly say it can repulse any evil, even that born of misuse of the Triforce. Given that the Triforce can grant wishes, this is powerful. It is stated to destroy evil, which is its primary purpose. Also relatively powerful. It has been shown breaking curses, breaking barriers, and breaking faces. And it reflects magic. It is often the most powerful sword in whatever game it appears in.



You are aware that the Gerudo phase of the game requires Link to sneak past them? Link, in canon, outstealthed a tribe of theives.



You're assuming that things are weak because a child can do them, rather than assuming the child is strong because he can do them. Link is repeatedly stated and proven to be more than a normal child, especially when he succeeds where adults fail. See: Link's uncle killed trying to save Zelda from Aganhim. He was a former Knight of Hyrule, and recieved the same telepathic message Link did. Or Darunia, the Goron Chief, failing to defeat Volvagia.



There is proof: Child Link did the things he did. Adults could not do these things. In what world would this make Link weak?



There's evidence that they are not normal silver. For one, they can kill most enemies in one shot, and were given to Link by a Fairy. In addition, every arrow Link picks up becomes a Silver Arrow. Link recieves them by tossing his bow into a fairy fountain, not by getting actual arrows. He upgraded his bow, not his arrows.

For an additional twist, there is always the Twilight curse to fall back on. It would pretty much effect everyone exept those individuals with divine protection. But even then, their form would still be altered, just not to a useless extent. This is assuming, of course, that the Twilight affects WoW-verse in the same way as portrayed in TP. I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Not in the long-term, no. It would be only a matter of time before KJ turned on him.

Yep. I wager around the time he gets summoned and then Ganondorf have imo more immidiate concerns then Azeroth, which is to ensure his own survival.

Originally posted by The Scenario
BT, your hate for The Legend f Zelda seems really unfounded. And your debating style is strange. Instead of attempting to build Azeroth up, you're attempting to break Ganondorf down. could soomebody at least try saying Azeroth is strong instead of saying Ganondorf is weak?

Anyway,



Midna was quite clearly striking with her Trident, and then the castle exploded. Plus, he was attacked by Valoo and came out unharmed. If you want to say the attacks missed, you must prove it. The intention is supposed to be clear, and making the assumption that it is more complicated is a violation of Occam's Razor.

"The simplest explanation is usually the correct one." We see Ganondorf's giant floating head look up and growl. We then see Midna strike downward in the direction of Gannondorfs head. Then the castle explodes.

So based on the above, obviously Ganondorf dodged the attack, despite being litle more than a head, and then fired a blast from his non existent hands, which destroyed the castle. That is a huge leap of logic, and is contrary to every intention the scene is supposed to convey. It is much simpler to assume that the attack connected and destroyed the castle, but Ganondorf survived due to his previously stated invulnerability.

Both are assumptions. The only difference is that one is stupid and overly complicated, and the other fits in the context of the games.

Further, when Link fight Ganon without the Master Sword, he has at least 2 sacred weapons left: the Light Arrows and the Megaton Hammer. Both are able to damage him, but there isn't a canon way he fought Ganon. Besides, Ganon could not be defeated until Zelda held him in place and allowed Link to perform the Coup de Gras with he Master Sword.



You must prove it if you made the claim. Here, the claim is that the Master Sword is not powerful. You should use evidence of the Master Sword failing to do something. You are currently asking to be proven wrong, a violation of the Burden of Proof. Any claim, positive or negative, must be proven with supporting evidence.

There are statements from manuals that explicitly say it can repulse any evil, even that born of misuse of the Triforce. Given that the Triforce can grant wishes, this is powerful. It is stated to destroy evil, which is its primary purpose. Also relatively powerful. It has been shown breaking curses, breaking barriers, and breaking faces. And it reflects magic. It is often the most powerful sword in whatever game it appears in.



You are aware that the Gerudo phase of the game requires Link to sneak past them? Link, in canon, outstealthed a tribe of theives.



You're assuming that things are weak because a child can do them, rather than assuming the child is strong because he can do them. Link is repeatedly stated and proven to be more than a normal child, especially when he succeeds where adults fail. See: Link's uncle killed trying to save Zelda from Aganhim. He was a former Knight of Hyrule, and recieved the same telepathic message Link did. Or Darunia, the Goron Chief, failing to defeat Volvagia.



There is proof: Child Link did the things he did. Adults could not do these things. In what world would this make Link weak?



There's evidence that they are not normal silver. For one, they can kill most enemies in one shot, and were given to Link by a Fairy. In addition, every arrow Link picks up becomes a Silver Arrow. Link recieves them by tossing his bow into a fairy fountain, not by getting actual arrows. He upgraded his bow, not his arrows.

I dont hate Zelda, never played it but I dont like the overhype such as 1000 ton supersonic link. there are people saying Azeroth is strong, thats what Utrigita, miria and Q are here for, they know more about the background lore than I do.

But we dont see him actually getting struck and whats more, the head is not necesserily physical so its not a physical feat like surviving the sword of light from the sages is, she was a fair distance away so its pretty much a spear lunge with a magic weapon but if he can destroy islands with his magic, it may have been his counter attack that demolished his castle OR perhaps his physical form being defeated broke the bond between him and his castle and he did not bother reforming this bond when he chased Link on horseback, we dont actually see it happen though so we cannot say for sure.

But his invulerability may be stated but not shown, by feats hes not invulnerable just endurant, he may not need his hands to cast magic since afterall he did overpower the shadows, so he had to do something. Another form I have seen of the fused shadows is when its long magic arms grab/strike something like they did to elimnate Zant, he may not have been hit physially at all. There are a lot of holes in the logic that he was hit, despite it being a factor we need to consider its still not an actual feat.

1. Thats not how it works, the burdon of proof is on Screamo to prove its strong, I am proven correct by default until proof is shown because until then there is no evidence to suggest it is strong. If the burdon of proof was on me to prove its weak we could say the same about every entity, we could all assume someone is indestructable or can destroy the universe until its proven "wrong". Ofc in truth they would be wrong because there is no feats to suggest they can.

2. Statements, but thats a no limit fallacy. "any evil" The trueforce can grant wishes you mean? breaking curses and barriers is hardly what you would call powerful when your opponent Ganondorf can blow up islands. Sure its prob the most powerful sword in Zelda but saying its powerful in Azeroth is fallacious.

That does not mean they could not stealth him, also tell me this, does Link canonically never sleep? or is it simply assumed because we dont see him do it?

Thats a poor way of thinking because if I assumed the child was strong, I would also have to assume the traps were well made and masterfully crafted. I would also have to assume the child is strong/mentally powerful when apart from the assumption he is based on the quality of the traps he has no feats of such. Yes but link overpowered those characters through items, not his own wit, you usually need an item like the mirror shield, MS etc to reflect/defeat the object of the boss.

Adults could not do what? when did an adult try in LoZ to collect the items assuming they were able to based on the "chosen one" title?

Then perhaps most enemies are like Ganon, weak to silver or the monsters could not survive being pierced by an arrow the same way a human being would not. But the fairy talks of silver arrows, not a special bow, I realise he had to chuck his bow in to get the arrows but still. please continue this argument if you can, your a debator, Screampaste and Moo are not. If you can find proof that I am wrong then that would be refreshing rather than Screampastes statements and trolling.

And everyone here knows more about Zelda than you do, too. That doesn't stop you from trying to debate it.
link-rape


Looks like you made an assertion, and need to back it up. But you can't.

There's nothing that says the head isn't physical. Whenever Ganon becomes intangible in TP he splits into those black squares you see when he possesses Zelda.

We see the spear coming right down at him, and the spear in question is just the manifested power of the fused shadows.
The intention of the cutscene is clearly that Midna busts the castle.

Lolwut? What bond to the castle? He wasn't bound to the castle anymore than I'm bound to my chair.

Actually there is, but you consistently ignore it.

Also, the burden of proof is on you, who made the assertion. GJ.

Strawman fallacy.

The burden of proof is on the one who makes the assertion. You asserted the sword is weak. Because you're the one who stated something without any way to back it up, the burden of proof is on you.

The sword can reflect that island busting power you mentioned.
link-rape
It's the fail safe in place for the triforce itself, and has countered it's power.

Claiming it's weak without proof is fallacious.
Actually it does, because he's just plain better. Also, they'd never achieve anything, this is like claiming your run of the mill theif could "stealth" Wolverine.

He does sleep, and he starts three games sleeping. OoT, aLttP, and WW. Apparently he can run off of very little sleep, though, because we see him go for days in MM without faltering. (He canonicly does not sleep for a bare minimum of three days, and it's more than likely going back in time doesn't make him any less tired.)

The fact he sleeps won't help them.

How about the fact that even the super-human Gorons are helpless against Volvagia, who Link beats with a freakin' hammer.
Or that this "child" can stop an entity which can pull the moon out of the sky and crash it into the earth?
How about that time when this "child" cleared the tower of gods?
Hell, how about all those times he's casually walked into active volcanoes full of hostile monsters that call such an environment comfortable, and slaughters them, takes their shit, and leaves? I dare you to make a Gohma v.s. Kain thread.


No one in Zelda's ever managed to do the things Link does, despite their efforts.
Darunia, cannot stand up to Volvagia or the fire temple.
Link's uncle, cannot stop to Agihnim.
The soldiers/knights of Hyrule, cannot fight Zant and his shadow beasts.


Please prove silver > divine power.

The silver arrows are the light arrows. G.J.
link-rape

Originally posted by Burning thought
miria

Flattered, but no

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And everyone here knows more about Zelda than you do, too. That doesn't stop you from trying to debate it.
link-rape


Looks like you made an assertion, and need to back it up. But you can't.

There's nothing that says the head isn't physical. Whenever Ganon becomes intangible in TP he splits into those black squares you see when he possesses Zelda.

We see the spear coming right down at him, and the spear in question is just the manifested power of the fused shadows.
The intention of the cutscene is clearly that Midna busts the castle.

Lolwut? What bond to the castle? He wasn't bound to the castle anymore than I'm bound to my chair.

Actually there is, but you consistently ignore it.

Also, the burden of proof is on you, who made the assertion. GJ.

Strawman fallacy.

The burden of proof is on the one who makes the assertion. You asserted the sword is weak. Because you're the one who stated something without any way to back it up, the burden of proof is on you.

The sword can reflect that island busting power you mentioned.
link-rape
It's the fail safe in place for the triforce itself, and has countered it's power.

Claiming it's weak without proof is fallacious.
Actually it does, because he's just plain better. Also, they'd never achieve anything, this is like claiming your run of the mill theif could "stealth" Wolverine.

He does sleep, and he starts three games sleeping. OoT, aLttP, and WW. Apparently he can run off of very little sleep, though, because we see him go for days in MM without faltering. (He canonicly does not sleep for a bare minimum of three days, and it's more than likely going back in time doesn't make him any less tired.)

The fact he sleeps won't help them.

How about the fact that even the super-human Gorons are helpless against Volvagia, who Link beats with a freakin' hammer.
Or that this "child" can stop an entity which can pull the moon out of the sky and crash it into the earth?
How about that time when this "child" cleared the tower of gods?
Hell, how about all those times he's casually walked into active volcanoes full of hostile monsters that call such an environment comfortable, and slaughters them, takes their shit, and leaves? I dare you to make a Gohma v.s. Kain thread.


No one in Zelda's ever managed to do the things Link does, despite their efforts.
Darunia, cannot stand up to Volvagia or the fire temple.
Link's uncle, cannot stop to Agihnim.
The soldiers/knights of Hyrule, cannot fight Zant and his shadow beasts.


Please prove silver > divine power.

The silver arrows are the light arrows. G.J.
link-rape

Thats not true, I am interested in the canon understand? not the fanon...if I wanted to know about the fanon of LoZ I would ask you.

What that hes not struck? lol, your kidding right? you somehow think I have to prove someone was not struck when its not shown him being struck? learn to debate, then come back.

What so hes a floating disembodied head with his physical corpse sitting crushed on the ground?

No I am sorry, the intension of the cutscene is that Ganon was>fused shadows, the castle itself collapsing is an unknown, tbh its not even important.

Thats not true neither is your next point, you need to prove its strong. There is no evidence it is.

Claiming its weak when I have no proof its strong is the right thing to do in KMC debates. But anyway nice red herring.

Wolverine is more powerful by far than link in every category, Gerudo's could have just killed link in his sleep in that case, quite easily.

maybe because the Gorons are fairly weak, I mean they cannot lift Links weight when he has nothing but lumps of iron on his feet, another thing could be that their slow and dont have said hammer? The Hero of the Gorons when he had the hammer beat the Dragon btw so your wrong

All these statements do not negate the fact Link is a child, if he has a hellava lot of PIS or toonforce helping him then fine but at the end of the day, hes still a kid and he does not get pis or toonforce in threads. Also your bringing up events where the creatures in question all have major weaknesses (often the very item he gets in their area is their weakness).

Did all these characters have all the items Link has when he faces them? no.....nor the allies and help Link gets, Midna, fairies and other knowledge.

Well first your going to have to prove a statement/title=power/feats.....but the proof is obvious, piecie of silver can beat trueforce Ganon, light arrows beat Ganon with only the triforce of power. No comparison there which ones more powerful.

Nah, its only assumed. No facts that say they were changed, technically they look different, act different, are used differently, against a different scale of enemy etc etc

He was struck. The camera cuts to outside the castle so we can witness it's destruction.


His body wasn't on the ground, he'd formed into the head.

Exactly. Ganon is > the fused shadows which hit him so hard the castle busted.


You need to prove your statement, I already proved it's strong. Burden of proof rests on you, who made the assertion.
Sword > Island busting power.

False.

False.
In snowhead temple Goron Link punches a section of the central column of the temple (which is freaking massive.) and despite the rest of the weight on top, knocks the section free, shortenning the pillar, for example. Also, the iron boots weigh a lot more than iron.

Cop out.
I provide proof, you scream toonforce. I accept your concession.
link-rape
Come back when you have an argument.
Actually, most of them do, or more. Hell, the soldiers couldn't fight the shadow beatss with swords and armour, Link could kick their asses as a wolf.

Yes, and I'm sure the shield still has a cross on it. /Eyeroll.

Light arrows = silver arrows.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He was struck. The camera cuts to outside the castle so we can witness it's destruction.


His body wasn't on the ground, he'd formed into the head.

Exactly. Ganon is > the fused shadows which hit him so hard the castle busted.


You need to prove your statement, I already proved it's strong. Burden of proof rests on you, who made the assertion.
Sword > Island busting power.

False.

False.
In snowhead temple Goron Link punches a section of the central column of the temple (which is freaking massive.) and despite the rest of the weight on top, knocks the section free, shortenning the pillar, for example. Also, the iron boots weigh a lot more than iron.

Cop out.
I provide proof, you scream toonforce. I accept your concession.
link-rape
Come back when you have an argument.
Actually, most of them do, or more. Hell, the soldiers couldn't fight the shadow beatss with swords and armour, Link could kick their asses as a wolf.

Yes, and I'm sure the shield still has a cross on it. /Eyeroll.

Light arrows = silver arrows.

lie/assumption.

He was still blatantly spiritual.

No, that not even necesserily hit him, he could have hit it first with his magic, Ganons castle has collapsed before under his power.

Youve not proved its strong though, youve proved it can lower barriers and act as a key, thats all.

Assertion: boots of iron weigh more than iron, proof?

Ive had an argument all this time, many of them and youve yet to counter anything. And your one to talk, youve screamed PIS before, as has Neme.

I dont belive this was any normal wolf.

You didnt even counter or try and find any evidence here, your just lazy. I may as well wait for Scenario who seems to know more about the canon of LoZ rather than fanon.

BT is now making assumptions, so I will do the same.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lie/assumption.

He was still blatantly spiritual.

No, that not even necesserily hit him, he could have hit it first with his magic, Ganons castle has collapsed before under his power.

Youve not proved its strong though, youve proved it can lower barriers and act as a key, thats all.

Assertion: boots of iron weigh more than iron, proof?

Ive had an argument all this time, many of them and youve yet to counter anything. And your one to talk, youve screamed PIS before, as has Neme.

I dont belive this was any normal wolf.

You didnt even counter or try and find any evidence here, your just lazy. I may as well wait for Scenario who seems to know more about the canon of LoZ rather than fanon.

Lol.

If it is so blatantly spiritual, why would Midna have attacked? I hate Midna more than you can possibly imagine, but even I can't see It being stupid enough to attack something It can't harm. You can't cling to a technicality like this when the obvious intention of the cut scene was that Midna struck Ganon. And let's just say for a minute that perhaps Midna did not strike Ganon. This means her spear would have gone through Ganon and struck the castle, causing it to explode. This scenario would still mean that Ganondorf conquered Midna while she was using the power of the Fused Shadows which can bust a castle.

How would this help your argument? It would means Ganon has castle busting power as well.

It deflects Ganon's magic and can even expel curses from Link's body. It's also pinned down Ganon's powers.

I'm still not seeing how this point is important to either of you. Regardless they grant Link the weight necessary for him to do the things he needs to be heavier for.

Lol.

You would be correct.

BT, you've seen it all a thousand times. We can show it to you over and over again, but until you stop ignoring it there won't be any point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3ZYF-Zmo2E

2:05 to 2:40

Kain is toonforce.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
True. mmm

Med'an Vs Ganondorf mmm

Originally posted by LLLLLink
For an additional twist, there is always the Twilight curse to fall back on. It would pretty much effect everyone exept those individuals with divine protection. But even then, their form would still be altered, just not to a useless extent. This is assuming, of course, that the Twilight affects WoW-verse in the same way as portrayed in TP. I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Is not Zant needed for that?

Nope, Zant could only do it because he had some of Ganon's power.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
BT is now making assumptions, so I will do the same.



Lol.

If it is so blatantly spiritual, why would Midna have attacked? I hate Midna more than you can possibly imagine, but even I can't see It being stupid enough to attack something It can't harm. You can't cling to a technicality like this when the obvious intention of the cut scene was that Midna struck Ganon. And let's just say for a minute that perhaps Midna did not strike Ganon. This means her spear would have gone through Ganon and struck the castle, causing it to explode. This scenario would still mean that Ganondorf conquered Midna while she was using the power of the Fused Shadows which can bust a castle.

How would this help your argument? It would means Ganon has castle busting power as well.

It deflects Ganon's magic and can even expel curses from Link's body. It's also pinned down Ganon's powers.

I'm still not seeing how this point is important to either of you. Regardless they grant Link the weight necessary for him to do the things he needs to be heavier for.

Lol.

You would be correct.

BT, you've seen it all a thousand times. We can show it to you over and over again, but until you stop ignoring it there won't be any point.

Because she uses magic. the fused shadows was not just a physical move, it had some magical energy to it by the looks of it and how could she know it would be so ineffective, she was stupid enough at least to attack someone she didnt even harm and was defeated easily by. Or her spear hit nothing but air, its not like Ganons head was right up against his castle or that he didnt defeat her, infact its more likely based on real feats that Ganon demolished his own castle.

It was just another assumption, along with the idea neither busted the castle and it was just collapsing the same way Ganon tried to bring his castle down on Link.

Thats hardly powerful, thats just useful not power. Also all this about "pinned down" Ganons powers but what claims this?

The point argues that the Gorons are not as heavy or as strong and Screampastes math says they are based on the games own logic, not his.

I didnt think it was normal. SP is comparing normal unaltered adults, I think TP (not sure) showed us that even the sages had no powers that could stop Ganons slow escape from his chains and punching one of them, they just panicked, assuming sages>normal adult then its a bit fallacious to compare Link with all the powers, items and protections he gains to normal adults, if they could use all his items then they would also succeed imo.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Because she uses magic. the fused shadows was not just a physical move, it had some magical energy to it by the looks of it and how could she know it would be so ineffective, she was stupid enough at least to attack someone she didnt even harm and was defeated easily by. Or her spear hit nothing but air, its not like Ganons head was right up against his castle or that he didnt defeat her, infact its more likely based on real feats that Ganon demolished his own castle.

It was just another assumption, along with the idea neither busted the castle and it was just collapsing the same way Ganon tried to bring his castle down on Link.

Thats hardly powerful, thats just useful not power. Also all this about "pinned down" Ganons powers but what claims this?

The point argues that the Gorons are not as heavy or as strong and Screampastes math says they are based on the games own logic, not his.

I didnt think it was normal. SP is comparing normal unaltered adults, I think TP (not sure) showed us that even the sages had no powers that could stop Ganons slow escape from his chains and punching one of them, they just panicked, assuming sages>normal adult then its a bit fallacious to compare Link with all the powers, items and protections he gains to normal adults, if they could use all his items then they would also succeed imo.

This is why you need to play the games. You think Midna had a way of knowing Ganon's full power. Even if It did know the full extent of Ganon's power, that wasn't the point. The point was to try and turn Midna into some great and self sacrificing hero, and for thousands of idiots, it worked. You must be slipping now, because it looked like you suggested that Ganon does have the power to bust a castle.

It's just too bad that this assumption doesn't have the obvious intent of a cut scene behind it. Do you realize what you're saying here? "If we didn't see it, it didn't happen, regardless of all outside information."

It is powerful, and that is extremely useful. It is another demonstration of the ability of the Master Sword to protect Link from evil magic. And the Master Sword being the item that was pinning down Ganon's power was a major plot point in Wind Waker. I thought you knew all the main facts?

Except that it does make sense. The boots can easily be that heavy. They were magnetized to the floor against Dangoro. And mind you, that is magnetization powerful enough to stick Link to the ceiling.

The only reason it isn't a normal wolf is because it's Link. Yeah, because alone the Sages can't do shit against the powers of the Triforce. That's usually how it works. And what does it being slow have to do with anything? Hell, the Triforce of Power had just activated at that point. And no, normal adults cannot do what Link can do, as they lack the Triforce of Courage and the general bravery that those chosen for the ToC have. Like Neme said, the moment Link went inside the Deku tree and killed Gohma with a Kokiri Sword and a Slingshot he ceased to be a normal Hylian.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
This is why you need to play the games. You think Midna had a way of knowing Ganon's full power. Even if It did know the full extent of Ganon's power, that wasn't the point. The point was to try and turn Midna into some great and self sacrificing hero, and for thousands of idiots, it worked. You must be slipping now, because it looked like you suggested that Ganon does have the power to bust a castle.

It's just too bad that this assumption doesn't have the obvious intent of a cut scene behind it. Do you realize what you're saying here? "If we didn't see it, it didn't happen, regardless of all outside information."

It is powerful, and that is extremely useful. It is another demonstration of the ability of the Master Sword to protect Link from evil magic. And the Master Sword being the item that was pinning down Ganon's power was a major plot point in Wind Waker. I thought you knew all the main facts?

Except that it does make sense. The boots can easily be that heavy. They were magnetized to the floor against Dangoro. And mind you, that is magnetization powerful enough to stick Link to the ceiling.

The only reason it isn't a normal wolf is because it's Link. Yeah, because alone the Sages can't do shit against the powers of the Triforce. That's usually how it works. And what does it being slow have to do with anything? Hell, the Triforce of Power had just activated at that point. And no, normal adults cannot do what Link can do, as they lack the Triforce of Courage and the general bravery that those chosen for the ToC have. Like Neme said, the moment Link went inside the Deku tree and killed Gohma with a Kokiri Sword and a Slingshot he ceased to be a normal Hylian.

No, I was countering your claim that Midna knew he was spiritual/physical or knew her fused shadows could not beat him, I am supposing, assuming he can bust a castle to point out that there could be a lot of assumptions for what happend between him and Midna (not beyond his power, I agree he bust an island).

Lol, your the one assuming the "obvious intent" I could say exactly the same, I dont think the intent was to somehow show that Midna apprently has castle busting power at all, infact apart from ganon destroying the fused shadows so easily, everything about the castle collapsing was just background insignificant that your trying to make into an imrpessive feat (its not even a feat, we dont know what happened to the castle for fact hence its never going ot be a feat).

I know a lot of facts, not all and whats important is that is this a fact or an assumption? like the "Ganon hit by midna" is apprently a fact to you, is not to the game.

Edit: unless your refering to the fact the MS was a seal on a lot of his powers and link released them when he pulled the sword from the plinth or w/e its stuck in? because thats just not a power of the sword, that was the "key" functionality I was pointing out earlier, in the right locks it can keep power closed up by when Links wielding it, its just a sword with some enhancements.

So? Links not that heavy, assuming the magnet was strong enough to hold some iron and not that much of it too then its not that impressive.

Ok so your saying bravery puts him above adults, thats the only thing you can come up with? normal hylians by the sounds of it dont have many weapons or armour, certainly not enhanced ones likeLink seems to get his hands on, give a well trained adult in Hyrule everything Link has and Link would just be a child, the new hero of hyrule would be an adult nad probably finish it far quicker.

ganon is powerful and smart, but there are people more powerful and smarter in azeroth imo. one of which is deathwing....so unless he teams up with deathwing he has no chance imo

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, I was countering your claim that Midna knew he was spiritual/physical or knew her fused shadows could not beat him, I am supposing, assuming he can bust a castle to point out that there could be a lot of assumptions for what happend between him and Midna (not beyond his power, I agree he bust an island).

Lol, your the one assuming the "obvious intent" I could say exactly the same, I dont think the intent was to somehow show that Midna apprently has castle busting power at all, infact apart from ganon destroying the fused shadows so easily, everything about the castle collapsing was just background insignificant that your trying to make into an imrpessive feat (its not even a feat, we dont know what happened to the castle for fact hence its never going ot be a feat).

I know a lot of facts, not all and whats important is that is this a fact or an assumption? like the "Ganon hit by midna" is apprently a fact to you, is not to the game.

Edit: unless your refering to the fact the MS was a seal on a lot of his powers and link released them when he pulled the sword from the plinth or w/e its stuck in? because thats just not a power of the sword, that was the "key" functionality I was pointing out earlier, in the right locks it can keep power closed up by when Links wielding it, its just a sword with some enhancements.

So? Links not that heavy, assuming the magnet was strong enough to hold some iron and not that much of it too then its not that impressive.

Ok so your saying bravery puts him above adults, thats the only thing you can come up with? normal hylians by the sounds of it dont have many weapons or armour, certainly not enhanced ones likeLink seems to get his hands on, give a well trained adult in Hyrule everything Link has and Link would just be a child, the new hero of hyrule would be an adult nad probably finish it far quicker.

So you agree that Ganon has busted an island. So why is the Master Sword weak? It reflects his magic.

That was not the obvious intent. The obvious intent was that Midna struck Ganon, the castle busting power of said strike is a side fact. It emphasizes the power of the Fused Shadows, and through that, the power of Ganondorf to withstand such an attack and defeat it's source.

How is it not a fact to the game? It happened. And no, the MS pinning down his power is a major plot point. It was actually stated by Ganondorf when you go back to him with the MS to try and defeat him. I fail to see how that's a "key" functionality on the MS. It didn't lock his power away, it pinned it down.

It's actually very impressive. Do you know how strong a magnet has to be to hold someone to the ceiling against the force of gravity? This isn't like some wimpy little refrigerator magnet holding an "A" school work assignment up so the whole family can see and be proud of you, this held a person to the ceiling.

No, I'm saying that the Triforce of Courage puts him above normal adults. As well as his intelligence and bravery. Far above normal adults.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
So you agree that Ganon has busted an island. So why is the Master Sword weak? It reflects his magic.

That was not the obvious intent. The obvious intent was that Midna struck Ganon, the castle busting power of said strike is a side fact. It emphasizes the power of the Fused Shadows, and through that, the power of Ganondorf to withstand such an attack and defeat it's source.

How is it not a fact to the game? It happened. And no, the MS pinning down his power is a major plot point. It was actually stated by Ganondorf when you go back to him with the MS to try and defeat him. I fail to see how that's a "key" functionality on the MS. It didn't lock his power away, it pinned it down.

It's actually very impressive. Do you know how strong a magnet has to be to hold someone to the ceiling against the force of gravity? This isn't like some wimpy little refrigerator magnet holding an "A" school work assignment up so the whole family can see and be proud of you, this held a person to the ceiling.

No, I'm saying that the Triforce of Courage puts him above normal adults. As well as his intelligence and bravery. Far above normal adults.

kain can take souls with his magic, revive fallen entities, drain blood and blast them to piecies but that does not mean he uses all his power at once, theres nothing to suggest Ganon can use full powered island busting attacks with every spell.

No I disagree, the obvious intent was that Ganon>Midna, theres nothing to suggest she even got a hit in.

Pinned it down while stuck in a plinth, pretty weak feat for the sword when it has to be in its plinth to do it, and as soon as its out, Ganon regained power. Just another "key" feat, Useless in combat situation.

Thats not impressive also this is a red herring, how is the fact their magnetic boots have any baring on the fact their just lumps of iron on his feet?

The triforce of courage protects him but what it actually gives him is ambiguous apart from some protection to various specific things. Its still another item, If an adult was more courageous and gained the triforce then thats another bonus powerup item. The fact adults in his realm are terrified cowards and layabouts who do not even seem to bother searching for artifacts and let a child do it does not say much for Hyrule or for Link tbh.

You are now assuming he will be taking it easy on Link. And that's true, there is nothing to suggest that. But he doesn't use that spell for every attack.

Well you can disagree with me all you want, but you can't disagree with a cut scene.

You agree that it pinned it down. But why is a plinth relevant at all? And how does that help your argument? And no, it is a feat speaking for the power of the Master Sword and what it can handle.

There are two major problems with this:

1) The entirety of Twilight Princess disagrees with you. As does Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time and likely some other situations I can't remember right now.

2) You are still assuming Link is a normal child, and that any adult could do what he did. That isn't true.

The point of the scene was to show that not even the power of the Fused Shadows (a fraction of which killed Zant, BTW) could manage to stop, or even harm, Ganondorf. Zant < Midna < Ganondorf. Even if it was not shown, it is clear that Ganondorf defeated Midna in her Fused Shadow form and destroyed them. And the castle still exploded with him in it.

As for the Master Sword, it is not actually part of this battle. Nor is Link.

We have Ganondorf, this magic mirror, and whatever resources he can gather in 10 years.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Link without MS or light arrows, hell even with them hes technically weaker. he was a respected adviser with the ear of the king, and as Scenario said, he could control the army. hordes of daft monsters who prob shove themselves into a fight, if these Gerudo are skilled thieves a few of them shield be able to stealth him.

2. When has Ganondorf been wounded by any weapon other than the MS? the only other one that I have seen is the light sword the sages used and that pierced through him. Paladins have a vast amount of holy powers, armour, and weaponry as well as training>>>Link vs Ganon. Names and titles lol....not sure I have seen a cutscene of the arrows one hitting something. Safeguard it with poor defences, with all his powers you would have thought he can do better than a few weak monsters that a child can beat.

3. Link has no reason to be any more wise than any child, or skilled for that matter, the fact he surpasses it is just as likely a reason for them being weak, more so than him being strong since apart from all his items hes not had any special powers granted him.

4. been covered.



1. Certainly if it meant I cannot be stopped if he cannot get said item, get to said NPC to be told about another secret etc etc, without the light/silver arrows Link is hopeless, without the MS hes hopeless, without all the sages, Zelda, and the knowledge he gains from his various side kicks he would not have got as far. "numerous" probably meaning a few in each room?

He killed a guy so hes not a child? physically and mentally hes shown to be a child, unless you have legit cinematics to prove he is somehow a genius and is innately physically powerful.

2. Your assuming the Moblin is as strong as it looks yet you take no time is wondering if Link is actually as weak as he looks and the Moblin is the one who is actually weaker than he looks. Your argument is pretty much "link is small but powerful" but the Moblin is big, therefore a normal child could not beat it. From canon, we know Links not that much more (if not less so) intelligent or strong than a child.

3. I do know this, that does not mean the traps are advanced or the monsters are powerful. Your proof is apprently just the opposite of my proof, my proof is based on facts however not assumption. Links a child, fact, the puzzles are beaten therefore the puzzles and monsters are pathetic. Then you have to throw in the opposite only yours is an assumption, your assuming Link is somehow superhuman and mentally masterful because he can do them.

4. pff not powerful enough, their just pathetic and do not finish the job, Zant for example, Agahim (possessed by Ganon no less) and all these beasts Ganon unleashes. You know how serious the LK would be taken if a child defeated all his minions and reached him in Icecrown? not at all, the armies of the Horde and alliance would have laughed about him, which is what they will prob do when they find Ganon getting beaten by the local children wherever he decides to setup.

"Among the only weapons", based on? a few fallible statements from entities who have tried everything? (I doubt it). These items you realise are fairly featless? thats like me saying a Warcraft level 1 character can beat Ganon because they can get magic items and armour from the beginning of the game 1. Apparently he actually did control the armies and use them against Link. So a "child" is able to battle entire armies and win. But... He's still a normal child right? He always makes use of the monsters that serve him or that he created. Skilled thieves who... Are not so impressive when compared to a giant arachnid monster. Stealth him? Stealth him where? In the densely populated areas he visits? In the open areas making stealth impossible? Or in the monster infested lands that would pose serious danger to them? These are women with schmitars, nothing more. And for that matter how would they find him? This is not the Ganon with remote vision that can observe Hyrule from his throne, and Link at first glance is nothing more than a normal child, this is a Ganon with no knowledge of any savior named Link, his only involvement with Lik involved using him to get the Triforce, which failed in a way Ganon could never have forseen. Your argument holds absolutely no water.

2. While possessing the ToP? The Light Arrows. Nothing else works. When the Sword of the Sages pierced him, he did not have the Triforce of Power. You name what they have... And yet they don't all go around single-handedly besting island busting, city freezing, worldwide storm-causing wizards, do they? They can't all lift 1,000 ton pillars, can they? They cannot stop an 800 ton living rock and throw it, can they? They cannot with a single arrow disintegrate ANY enemy other than the one whom they were created to defeat, can they? Link>>>>>>>Random pally. Not everything has to be seen in a cutscene. Light Arrows are made to destroy evil, and in-game this has the effect of utterly annihilating them. Denying that feat would be like denying Kratos his QTEs or denying Kain/Raziel's block pushing feats. Being gameplay does not change what they do. You're outright denying evidence now, are you implying that any random child, or even an adult, could do what Link did? If so, kindly go **** yourself my good sir, being a child does not mean a thing. Like I said, I can name children in fiction younger than Link who could quell the threat of the Scourge within moments, Link being a child means absolutely nothing. Admit defeat and stop grasping onto this straw.

3. A normal child cannot push a solid stone block four times my size (I am not very small). That what you wanted? Evidence of Link being more than a normal child? No evidence he is more intelligent than a normal child? Well let's see... He is able to skillfully use any weapon upon immediately picking it up. But every child can do that, right? He can go into dungeons and solve numerous puzzles to get to the end, and then kill the main boss of the dungeon, usually some giant monster. But... Every child can do that, right?

4. You have neither the knowledge nor the intelligence to cover any point I have made. Don't lie.

1. Oddly enough he does guard the Light Arrows in WW... And Link fights through his forces and gets them anyway. As for the Master Sword, well, he did have guards in place to guard it in WW... Yet the MS being stoned managed to freeze his minions in time. The Sages? Holy shitballs and onions, in OoT he has overrun the Temples containing all the Sages (Except the Temple of Light, which was located in another dimension via the Temple of Time, not really easily accessible or well-known) with monsters, traps, and various hazards. He nearly committed genocide on all the Gorons in Death Mountain in order to guard the Fire Temple and brought an ancient dragon back to life, he released the spirit Bongo Bongo to guard the Shadow Temple, he enslaved Nabooru, a mutinous Gerudo, and had her turned into an Iron Knuckle to personally guard the Spirit Temple along with Twinrova (Not even counting the natural safeguards the desert puts in place), he overran the entirety of Kokiri Forest with monsters and created a phantom of himself to guard the Forest Temple, and he froze over Zora's Domain, drained Lake Hylia, and created Morpha to guard the Water Temple. In every temple he has cut the Sage off from outside contact and filled it with monsters. This is why you should play the ****ing games before making stupid claims like this. A few in each room? Not every room is small first of all. How many are in each room varies, and they always respawn, in that enemies never run out.

He can, at the age of 11 or 12, push solid stone blocks across the floor that are considerably larger than I am. I already proved Link is not a normal child, his accomplishments speak for themselves.

2. Well let's see. Moblins are larger than a normal human, and wield huge spears with incredible ease, a feat few, if any normal humans could do. In OoT, one can cause quakes by hitting the ground with a club. But... We must assume they are weaker than a normal child? I'm not even annoyed by your points now, this is just funny. Wait... So now you are going to assume Link is physically weaker and less intelligent than a normal child? Your feeble attempts at grasping for some sort of foothold in this argument do not even warrant a serious response anymore.

3. Um, yeah. Kinda like how when I see Superman lift a building I assume it is because Superman is really strong, not that the building is really light. That is essentially the logic you are using. Link can push blocks, as a child, that are much larger than me, so he is physically strong. Link is able to skillfully wield any item upon pick-up and walks into dungeons braving monsters, and solving numerous puzzles. Therefore he is mentally strong. Your sad attempt at discrediting Link convinces no one but yourself.

4. Zant would make a Paladin his *****. Zant would make Thrall, the leader of the horde, his ass slave. Aghanim started plagues and droughts and quelled them with ease. Now you're obviously trolling. Oh, and why would they be laughing? Considering Link would make Thrall his little ass ***** any day of the week. And once again, I can name children that would end the threat of the Scourge in moments.

Lol. So... Statements from ancient spirits who are nearly as old as the artifacts themselves, or in at least one case, a being who can bestow and create said item (Light Arrows)? It is said numerous times, and it has been shown that only the Master Sword or Light Arrows can harm Ganon. Now I could buy that a sufficiently powerful sacred weapon from another verse would harm him, but no random shitpaste Paladin can call himself Link's equal.

DRy7dN_tMik

1:40

Light Arrows can convert things into light to kill them instantly. One of the few things that can stop Phantom Ganon from reforming.

Just saying.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering Link would make Thrall his little ass ***** any day of the week

I do not know the context of this statement, since reading Burning Thought discuss in favor of Warcraft make me cringe, but I must step in and disagree. While Thrall has no means of defeating the Link that is frequently debated here, Thrall can easily keep him at bay or BFR him. A point I have brought up before.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You are now assuming he will be taking it easy on Link. And that's true, there is nothing to suggest that. But he doesn't use that spell for every attack.

Well you can disagree with me all you want, but you can't disagree with a cut scene.

You agree that it pinned it down. But why is a plinth relevant at all? And how does that help your argument? And no, it is a feat speaking for the power of the Master Sword and what it can handle.

There are two major problems with this:

1) The entirety of Twilight Princess disagrees with you. As does Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time and likely some other situations I can't remember right now.

2) You are still assuming Link is a normal child, and that any adult could do what he did. That isn't true.

1. Where does it say he battled entire armies? a giant arachnid monster would have no knowledge of stealth, poison etc correction it holds a whole ocean, at the same time your admitting Ganon was pretty clueless throughout and did not use his resources.

2. In Canon the light arrows have what feats of physical power? Nothing else based on Links incredible arsenal right? and once again, gameplay. Link cannot do any of those things either unless were talking Screampastes fanon. No, denying their feats would be like denying Links arrows not being especially affective against evil, the actual damage done to an enemy and how much needed to destroy them is based on mechanics, balance etc. You listed a ton of items and now your saying link being a child does not count? what evidence do you have that without these items he is canonically powerful? what makes you think that an adult who is wiser, physically superior and has all of Links items could not do a better if not equel job?

3. Your making the assumption that all these things are heavy, or hard to do, they dont have to be and some of these things are jsut gameplay, those blocks do not relate to Links size and physically link has no reason in canon to be stronger than a child to same way Kratos, dante or a LoK vamp has. And tbh, a lot of characters somehow just "know" how to use items when they find them in games, almost every RPG has wizards/warriors picking up items and being able to use them at some point or FPS allows you to pick up alien weapons and somehow use them right off the bat.

4. I wont lie.

1. So his efforts are incredibly poor then? despite all his power his monsters fall to a child, he doesnt fall so easily, he swats link away in WW yet all his monsters are weak as hell, I never realised they were so weak hence why I made the error of assuming Ganon did not try to protect every item link needs (still not proven btw). I see, respawns are canon?

Your making the assumption that the things he faces are powerful or intelligent or heavy to hype Link up, I am not making any assumption here, links a child, simple fact, hes not physically or mentally enhanced innately like Dante, Kratos etc are therefore if hes lifting things that "look" heavy then its more likely their not because a child can>them. Also LoZ is inconsistent and shows toonforce, WW a culprit,bouncing gorons another, the pillar feat is another illogical physical manouver that would take a vast number of unlikey assumptions to make correct.

2. Copout, you cant actually prove these characters are strong, you have to assume. And yeh, while these above human size creatures are making "quakes" (prob some sort of gameplay or toonforce) huge Gorons cannot lift Link because hes wearing iron on his feat! I dont know, I think Link is at least>normal child physically and mentally, just not by far because without any items or the triforce of courage his only element that the game outlines as above a normal child is his courage, I admit a normal child would die of fright or not take any action against some of Links enemies.

3. We know Superman is not a normal man though dont we? we dont assume he is because of what he can do, we know hes superhuman before he does it. Thats because the people I am trying to convince are blind fans, or belive their assumptions are correct, they also belive all fiction has to make physical and logical sense so when they see a child lift something they think is heavy, it automaticlly requires a logical mathmatical deduction to apprently work. Then we see Gorons bounce on lava, Link toss pillars at ridiculous speeds and distances and Gorons unable to move link because hes wearing iron shoes.

4. possibly, because Zant has shown TK feats that allow him to lift...oh wait, not sure ive seen him lift anything as heavy as a fully armoured adult before. Lol, Thrall would crush link under his hammer, without using his vast shaman powers. Q can tell you more as shes read the books and thrall does more feats in them than in the games.

- its fallible because they have not been tried, these ancients have not used said arrows or anything much else for that matter on Ganon. Why? a Paladin has vastly more holy items, infact i wouldnt be surprsied if Ganon screamed at even hitting the Paladins holy armour, onyl to be impaled on a holy blade like Ashbringer.

Originally posted by The Scenario
The point of the scene was to show that not even the power of the Fused Shadows (a fraction of which killed Zant, BTW) could manage to stop, or even harm, Ganondorf. Zant < Midna < Ganondorf. Even if it was not shown, it is clear that Ganondorf defeated Midna in her Fused Shadow form and destroyed them. And the castle still exploded with him in it.

As for the Master Sword, it is not actually part of this battle. Nor is Link.

We have Ganondorf, this magic mirror, and whatever resources he can gather in 10 years.

Thats not true, we dont even see it hit him, let alone harm. Its showing us that Ganon>fused shadows, whether its because he hit it before it could hit him or because he survived the attack or because he distracted it with various PoP songs then collapsed his castle on it is unkown.

True but their relevant to Ganons overall power and how he reacts to various attacks, what can you tell me of Ganons minions? how do you propose he can make an army that can challenge Azeroth or at least politically pursuade anyone in Azeroth to follow him?

To translate BT's post:
He believes Link is nothing but a normal child, who uses toonforce in a world full of incredibly weak gigantic monsters who can do incredibly destructive things, but only because of toonforce (ofcourse!), and that every statement about the power of the triforce is a lie, and that it grants no powers, and is "a weak relic", and the master sword is nothing but a normal sword that can act as a key..

Because he believes these things, his argument seems to be the children of warcraft and some random paladins defeat Ganon.


So the context was:
-Showing that Link's level of success against Ganon would not be attainable by most.

BT makes me lol.

Now onto replying to him! *Cringe*



Yes, because everyone should just expect a champion of Farore with an incredibly powerful magic sword to just show up at any given time, and for this person to be some kid they previously manipulated into giving them the triforce that disappeared for seven years?

Yeah, right.

How about the fact that they are not wiser or physicly superior, and he regularly bests them with less than they have? In the first moments of aLttP despite having nothing at your disposal by your Uncles sword you're beating the hell out of armoured soldiers, and breaking the princess out of the dungeon.

As for your insinuation about my "fanon", I'm not the one randomly making incredible leaps and stretched of logic in an attempt to try and discredit a franchise. You are.

OH NOES!

You know those block puzzles your favourite franchise stole directly from Zelda? You just called them gameplay. Now neither Raziel or Kain have any strength feats. Nice fail there.


haermm an LoK vamp has no reason in canon to be super human at all. Where's that developer statement you keep going on about? Since those are obviously the only canon ones! Also, Link has feats. You know, those things you constantly try to invent for Kain? Vampire's just a title. Link has statements, much clearer than the vague ones you try to take out of context from LoK. But LoK/Blood Omen character statements count, but Zelda statements don't count? /Eyeroll.
Play Twilight Princess, the entire game is full of statements on Link gaining/having power. When Link is still, from the mouth of the Hero's Shade himself, unworthy of the hero's tunic, he's already throwing around Gorons like balls. Ganon tells you Link is one of those chosen by the gos who wield absolute power. But that's useless too, right? I lol'd. But when Kain says that the soul reaver eats souls, it can instantly devour the soul of any being it touches no matter what!11!1. .

Hm. No. I just think you're biased. (Also a little BTarded.)

How about the statements and showings each of these monsters has, which you constantly ignore..
Volvagia rips apart the stone ceiling of his chamber, Gohma bench presses tens of thousands of tons, while sitting in lava.
Moblins create shockwaves just by striking the earth with a club.
Morpheel cracks open the side of the water temple, draining the water, by accident.
Dangoro is heavy enough to snap the chains that support the platform he fights Link on.
Darbus is a massive, super strong, possessed and enhanced, living rock that's on fire, and Link can overpower him to trip him.


The list goes on like that.
As for things in Zelda magicly being light.. Light granite? You high? Or maybe "ITZ HOLLOW!" ...Explain to me how you' carve a hollow block? How would you empty out the inside? Really, I'm curious where this massive stretch comes from.

Link > all of this, and the fact he's young somehow nullifies that? I lol'd.
link-rape

Gorons are insanely strong, but you'd KNOW that if you played a Zelda game..
In MM as a Goron you do this:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/GoronLinkismanly.jpg
Note the lack of HUD in the second image: scripted event, not gameplay.
And yet these guys can't move Link in the iron boots, like I keep telling you, they are not iron.
We know Link is not a normal man either.

Zant defeated a light spirit with a thought.

Also, stop trying to speak for Q, or use her to somehow support your arguments when she keeps mentioning she doesn't even read your posts because they're shameful.

She replied to Neme, this means she is reading ours, and if and when she disagrees, she's a big girl who can speak up for herself, and already has done.

Because the Sage's Sword worked sooooo well! And that only even pierced his skin because they did it before he had the triforce of power. GJ.


Assumption.

So, when you say "random paladin" you mean Tirion Fordgring? Hah. Random indeed. Only the most powerful one in Warcraft. Ganon doesn't need to engage Tirion directly the way Link forces him too, either.
link-rape

I think BT quoted me and replied to Neme's post.

I'd like to point out at random that the sage's sword incident proved that even if you do damage Ganon without a powerful holy weapon, it doesn't achieve anything.

I'm still thinking the only reason that did anything was because the ToP hadn't activated.

And yeah. BT quoted me but replied to Neme. Then when he started the actual reply to me he misspelled "feet."

I'll reply to him later. Am at school.

This is true, but I'm just highlighting that even if you bypass his durability without a holy weapon, it doesn't seem to do much to him. Pierce his heart? That's okay, he doesn't even care. 131

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Yes, because everyone should just expect a champion of Farore with an incredibly powerful magic sword to just show up at any given time, and for this person to be some kid they previously manipulated into giving them the triforce that disappeared for seven years?

Yeah, right.

How about the fact that they are not wiser or physicly superior, and he regularly bests them with less than they have? In the first moments of aLttP despite having nothing at your disposal by your Uncles sword you're beating the hell out of armoured soldiers, and breaking the princess out of the dungeon.

As for your insinuation about my "fanon", I'm not the one randomly making incredible leaps and stretched of logic in an attempt to try and discredit a franchise. You are.

OH NOES!

You know those block puzzles your favourite franchise stole directly from Zelda? You just called them gameplay. Now neither Raziel or Kain have any strength feats. Nice fail there.


haermm an LoK vamp has no reason in canon to be super human at all. Where's that developer statement you keep going on about? Since those are obviously the only canon ones! Also, Link has feats. You know, those things you constantly try to invent for Kain? Vampire's just a title. Link has statements, much clearer than the vague ones you try to take out of context from LoK. But LoK/Blood Omen character statements count, but Zelda statements don't count? /Eyeroll.
Play Twilight Princess, the entire game is full of statements on Link gaining/having power. When Link is still, from the mouth of the Hero's Shade himself, unworthy of the hero's tunic, he's already throwing around Gorons like balls. Ganon tells you Link is one of those chosen by the gos who wield absolute power. But that's useless too, right? I lol'd. But when Kain says that the soul reaver eats souls, it can instantly devour the soul of any being it touches no matter what!11!1. .

Hm. No. I just think you're biased. (Also a little BTarded.)

How about the statements and showings each of these monsters has, which you constantly ignore..
Volvagia rips apart the stone ceiling of his chamber, Gohma bench presses tens of thousands of tons, while sitting in lava.
Moblins create shockwaves just by striking the earth with a club.
Morpheel cracks open the side of the water temple, draining the water, by accident.
Dangoro is heavy enough to snap the chains that support the platform he fights Link on.
Darbus is a massive, super strong, possessed and enhanced, living rock that's on fire, and Link can overpower him to trip him.


The list goes on like that.
As for things in Zelda magicly being light.. Light granite? You high? Or maybe "ITZ HOLLOW!" ...Explain to me how you' carve a hollow block? How would you empty out the inside? Really, I'm curious where this massive stretch comes from.

Link > all of this, and the fact he's young somehow nullifies that? I lol'd.
link-rape

Gorons are insanely strong, but you'd KNOW that if you played a Zelda game..
In MM as a Goron you do this:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/GoronLinkismanly.jpg
Note the lack of HUD in the second image: scripted event, not gameplay.
And yet these guys can't move Link in the iron boots, like I keep telling you, they are not iron.
We know Link is not a normal man either.

Zant defeated a light spirit with a thought.

Also, stop trying to speak for Q, or use her to somehow support your arguments when she keeps mentioning she doesn't even read your posts because they're shameful.

She replied to Neme, this means she is reading ours, and if and when she disagrees, she's a big girl who can speak up for herself, and already has done.

Because the Sage's Sword worked sooooo well! And that only even pierced his skin because they did it before he had the triforce of power. GJ.


Assumption.

So, when you say "random paladin" you mean Tirion Fordgring? Hah. Random indeed. Only the most powerful one in Warcraft. Ganon doesn't need to engage Tirion directly the way Link forces him too, either.
link-rape

The last bit is why he should expect link for one, hes already met him, used him and therefore Link is the only one who knew where the chamber was and got in.

Let me guess, gameplay?

No thats false, your doing all those things to enhance your own fanon. Stretching logic most of all, not the games, your own.

No not really, read the part where Links a child and has no reason to be strong, i dont have to assume their heavy.

Vampire is not a title its a spiecies you dont even know what a title is now?

here your just trolling though, theres no real argument. As I said, go back to your fanon and let a real debator and someone who knows about the LoZ canon, not fanon attack my points.


Gameplay graphics, toonforce, your overhyped exageration and a lot of things not to be taken seriously. You whining about these actions does not make Link more powerful, he stays the same, it makes them weak though.

Because their not strong, boots of iron can weigh them down and overpower their strength remember?

Their not necesserily light, the developers just did not care about the weight of these things, their just fun little effects for LoZ players to enjoy. Links still a child no matter how big the blocks are, half the time an unenhanced one physically anyway.

Their not strong, they cannot lift Links weight when he has iron on his feet, your calalculations are not canon and LoZ does not have to use real physics, its a toony game on old graphic engines in most cases.

or they are iron like the game tells us and your calculations are not canon?

Theres no feat from Ganon with ToP that he cannot be pierced, he was pierced easily by the sword of light.

Fact.

Link does not force anything, Tirion would wipe out Ganon easily as would an army of normal paladins. hell a hero paladin has long range smiting holy spells that instantly hit the target, they dont need little swords or Links cute little bow.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I think BT quoted me and replied to Neme's post.

I did indeed, wups!

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. So his efforts are incredibly poor then? despite all his power his monsters fall to a child, he doesnt fall so easily, he swats link away in WW yet all his monsters are weak as hell, I never realised they were so weak hence why I made the error of assuming Ganon did not try to protect every item link needs (still not proven btw). I see, respawns are canon?

Your making the assumption that the things he faces are powerful or intelligent or heavy to hype Link up, I am not making any assumption here, links a child, simple fact, hes not physically or mentally enhanced innately like Dante, Kratos etc are therefore if hes lifting things that "look" heavy then its more likely their not because a child can>them. Also LoZ is inconsistent and shows toonforce, WW a culprit,bouncing gorons another, the pillar feat is another illogical physical manouver that would take a vast number of unlikey assumptions to make correct.

2. Copout, you cant actually prove these characters are strong, you have to assume. And yeh, while these above human size creatures are making "quakes" (prob some sort of gameplay or toonforce) huge Gorons cannot lift Link because hes wearing iron on his feat! I dont know, I think Link is at least>normal child physically and mentally, just not by far because without any items or the triforce of courage his only element that the game outlines as above a normal child is his courage, I admit a normal child would die of fright or not take any action against some of Links enemies.

3. We know Superman is not a normal man though dont we? we dont assume he is because of what he can do, we know hes superhuman before he does it. Thats because the people I am trying to convince are blind fans, or belive their assumptions are correct, they also belive all fiction has to make physical and logical sense so when they see a child lift something they think is heavy, it automaticlly requires a logical mathmatical deduction to apprently work. Then we see Gorons bounce on lava, Link toss pillars at ridiculous speeds and distances and Gorons unable to move link because hes wearing iron shoes.

4. possibly, because Zant has shown TK feats that allow him to lift...oh wait, not sure ive seen him lift anything as heavy as a fully armoured adult before. Lol, Thrall would crush link under his hammer, without using his vast shaman powers. Q can tell you more as shes read the books and thrall does more feats in them than in the games.

- its fallible because they have not been tried, these ancients have not used said arrows or anything much else for that matter on Ganon.

1. No, but in many games it isn't like he wants to kill Link. Using OoT as an example, he first is using Link to gather the stones and the Ocarina of Time in order to open the door to the Sacred Realm. Then the Master Sword takes Link away for seven years, at which point Link has returned and Ganondorf uses him to bring Zelda out of hiding. He still sicks all his minions on Link and even very powerful entities like Bongo Bongo and Volvagia.

Nothing in Zelda is toonforce. There's a reason for all of it and it is very consistent. Had Dangoro been killed by tossing him into the lava you would have no way to retrieve the Hero's Bow. Not to mention the fact that Gorons live in a volcano and don't give two shits about heat. In TP before you get into the dungeon there are Gorons outside while the volcano is spitting out molten rocks. They just walk around out there like it's a tiny bit of rain. Physical enhancements for Link are incredibly obvious. Twilight Princess is a big point in the powers of the Triforce of Courage. The entire game is filled with mentions of you wielding the Hero's power. The first Light Spirit you save even tells you "You have not yet discovered your true hidden power." One dungeon later he's tossing Dangoro.

2. I didn't mention any creatures, but stating that you cannot disagree with a cut scene is not a copout, it is stating the obvious. And I really have no clue what the rest of that post is, but I'll say that no Goron has ever attempted to lift Link. Sumo wrestling is not an occasion to lift your opponent, it is a contest of Strength against Strength. Weight is still a factor, but not much else.

3. I don't think this is a reply to me at all, I began this post thinking that part of yours was replying to me, but two and three make me question that. And for those last points that look like they could be directed at me, I'll direct you to #2.

4. With the power of one Fused Shadow Midna can levitate sections of solid stone bridges, ripping them out of the ground before It does so. Zant > Midna with one Fused Shadow.

The Ancients lacked the power of Light Arrows. They were granted to Zelda in TP when she prayed to the Goddesses for them and they sent the Light Spirits to oblige.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. No, but in many games it isn't like he wants to kill Link. Using OoT as an example, he first is using Link to gather the stones and the Ocarina of Time in order to open the door to the Sacred Realm. Then the Master Sword takes Link away for seven years, at which point Link has returned and Ganondorf uses him to bring Zelda out of hiding. He still sicks all his minions on Link and even very powerful entities like Bongo Bongo and Volvagia.

Nothing in Zelda is toonforce. There's a reason for all of it and it is very consistent. Had Dangoro been killed by tossing him into the lava you would have no way to retrieve the Hero's Bow. Not to mention the fact that Gorons live in a volcano and don't give two shits about heat. In TP before you get into the dungeon there are Gorons outside while the volcano is spitting out molten rocks. They just walk around out there like it's a tiny bit of rain. Physical enhancements for Link are incredibly obvious. Twilight Princess is a big point in the powers of the Triforce of Courage. The entire game is filled with mentions of you wielding the Hero's power. The first Light Spirit you save even tells you "You have not yet discovered your true hidden power." One dungeon later he's tossing Dangoro.

2. I didn't mention any creatures, but stating that you cannot disagree with a cut scene is not a copout, it is stating the obvious. And I really have no clue what the rest of that post is, but I'll say that no Goron has ever attempted to lift Link. Sumo wrestling is not an occasion to lift your opponent, it is a contest of Strength against Strength. Weight is still a factor, but not much else.

3. I don't think this is a reply to me at all, I began this post thinking that part of yours was replying to me, but two and three make me question that. And for those last points that look like they could be directed at me, I'll direct you to #2.

4. With the power of one Fused Shadow Midna can levitate sections of solid stone bridges, ripping them out of the ground before It does so. Zant > Midna with one Fused Shadow.

The Ancients lacked the power of Light Arrows. They were granted to Zelda in TP when she prayed to the Goddesses for them and they sent the Light Spirits to oblige.

1. I have few problems with the first part of this point but...

It is toonforce, WW is toony alltogether, the little explosion on the islands was one such toon event where he squeeks like a toon down the side of the castle. Theres no reason for a lot of links feats at least not the lollovelink club link based on screams uncanon math. "heroes" power is a mention, a fallible one and most of all ambiguous, we dont even know what that means.

2. The cutscene does not show weight nor does it prove that the developers made a game that your supposed to take physically seriously, just like Mario and other toon games. I dont know what it is but there were many vids that showed Link pulling Gorons just because he had Iron boots, therefore his weight>theirs just by having iron on his feet.

3. This is indeed the post meant for Nemebro, ill answer your one later.

4.

So they are fallible then, their speaking from a position of great ignorance by saying only light arrows or silver can beat Ganon, or the MS for that matter. Not only have they not practiced it themselves but they dont have access or have tried many other items yet.

BT's post makes so little sense I'm not sure how to reply to it.

Take this for example. Wtf?

Play the game, learn what you're talking about. What you say here makes no sense. In the context of the game I can't even force it to make sense. That is how bad it is.


Here you say "no u".

I'm not the only one to tell you you're making incredible leaps and stretches, either. You're actively imagining things to try and grasp some straw somewhere that doesn't even exist. You keep saying I use "Fanon", but lo and behold, the games agree with me.



See below:
"an LoK vamp has no reason in canon to be super human at all. Where's that developer statement you keep going on about? Since those are obviously the only canon ones! Also, Link has feats. You know, those things you constantly try to invent for Kain? Vampire's just a title. Link has statements, much clearer than the vague ones you try to take out of context from LoK. But LoK/Blood Omen character statements count, but Zelda statements don't count? /Eyeroll.
Play Twilight Princess, the entire game is full of statements on Link gaining/having power. When Link is still, from the mouth of the Hero's Shade himself, unworthy of the hero's tunic, he's already throwing around Gorons like balls. Ganon tells you Link is one of those chosen by the gos who wield absolute power. But that's useless too, right? I lol'd. But when Kain says that the soul reaver eats souls, it can instantly devour the soul of any being it touches no matter what!11!1..."



Now you're in denial. "YOU'RE WRONG!!!". I lol'd. How about you try and prove I'm wrong instead of consistantly claiming so with no evidence? Guess what, you haven't played the games, you have no idea what you're talking about, and no one agrees with you. See a connection? I do.


See? Doesn't like when I prove him wrong, yells toonforce.

Proof of anything you're claiming? You have none.

BT, you have no argument, I win again.



http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/GoronLinkismanly.jpg

Game disagrees with you. Game is right, you are wrong.


durlaugh
"No matter how many feats he has, he's still a kid!"

Poor argument is poor. Get a new one.


haermm
1. They are strong, see above.
2. Iron boots =/= the weight of iron.
3. I don't need calculations for the image to show the Gorons could easily move a human if the boots only weigh as much as iron.
Show me where I used a calculation?
4. Play the game before you call it "toony". It isn't. This is your typical cop out. Get proved wrong, ignore feats, then scream toonforce. GJ being predictable.

They're not iron, they don't even look like iron and the game never even says they're iron, that's just a name. Where did I use a calculation?
The gorons are incredibly strong, cannot move a man in iron boots. The iron boots are heavy as hell.


"sword of light"?

You mean the Sage's Sword, which only even broke his skin because he didn't have the triforce of power yet? Then he shrugged off the impalement as soon as the triforce of power activated, G.J.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You are now assuming he will be taking it easy on Link. And that's true, there is nothing to suggest that. But he doesn't use that spell for every attack.

Well you can disagree with me all you want, but you can't disagree with a cut scene.

You agree that it pinned it down. But why is a plinth relevant at all? And how does that help your argument? And no, it is a feat speaking for the power of the Master Sword and what it can handle.

There are two major problems with this:

1) The entirety of Twilight Princess disagrees with you. As does Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time and likely some other situations I can't remember right now.

2) You are still assuming Link is a normal child, and that any adult could do what he did. That isn't true.

Not really, I am just not assuming every one of his magical attacks are island busting like you are. Whether he takes it easy on link or whether his island buster is a slow attack thats not viable in real combat I dont know, neither do you. We can only assume but tbh, apart from the power whatever he did to blow up the islands is featless, speed, cast time, gesture or spoken word etc.

Well your opinion is on the cutscene, the cutscene itself does not tell you what its intent is I am afraid, and we dont see him get hit, therefore no feat no matter how hard you try.

The plinth is relevant because when the MS was pulled out Ganon said he gained his power again, its just a locking mechanism. Its useless in combat.

Who are you say that isnt true? its never happened and Link is a normal child based on canon, ignoring Screampastes fanon math and the assumption everything in LoZ is 100% physically thought out by all the developers and is made to work with physics then Link by the actual canon is never even implied to be physically superior to an adult. Adults do not even try the things he does, not with all the items he is lucky enough to get his hands on.

Not so. It sealed Ganon in stone at the end of WW without the pedestal of time.
He's someone who's played the game.

durlaugh A normal man can throw giant living rocks?

Yes, they do. You ignore that.. You think Zant had the twilight beasts slaughter Hyrule's soldiers for lulz? They were trying to resist. Couldn't even take shadow beasts, in numbers, while armed and armoured. Link, alone, as a wolf can take on groups of shadow beasts alone.

mmm Seems Link is superior.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste



Here you say "no u".

I'm not the only one to tell you you're making incredible leaps and stretches, either. You're actively imagining things to try and grasp some straw somewhere that doesn't even exist. You keep saying I use "Fanon", but lo and behold, the games agree with me.



See below:
"an LoK vamp has no reason in canon to be super human at all. Where's that developer statement you keep going on about? Since those are obviously the only canon ones! Also, Link has feats. You know, those things you constantly try to invent for Kain? Vampire's just a title. Link has statements, much clearer than the vague ones you try to take out of context from LoK. But LoK/Blood Omen character statements count, but Zelda statements don't count? /Eyeroll.
Play Twilight Princess, the entire game is full of statements on Link gaining/having power. When Link is still, from the mouth of the Hero's Shade himself, unworthy of the hero's tunic, he's already throwing around Gorons like balls. Ganon tells you Link is one of those chosen by the gos who wield absolute power. But that's useless too, right? I lol'd. But when Kain says that the soul reaver eats souls, it can instantly devour the soul of any being it touches no matter what!11!1..."



Now you're in denial. "YOU'RE WRONG!!!". I lol'd. How about you try and prove I'm wrong instead of consistantly claiming so with no evidence? Guess what, you haven't played the games, you have no idea what you're talking about, and no one agrees with you. See a connection? I do.


See? Doesn't like when I prove him wrong, yells toonforce.

Proof of anything you're claiming? You have none.

BT, you have no argument, I win again.



http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/GoronLinkismanly.jpg

Game disagrees with you. Game is right, you are wrong.


durlaugh
"No matter how many feats he has, he's still a kid!"

Poor argument is poor. Get a new one.


haermm
1. They are strong, see above.
2. Iron boots =/= the weight of iron.
3. I don't need calculations for the image to show the Gorons could easily move a human if the boots only weigh as much as iron.
Show me where I used a calculation?
4. Play the game before you call it "toony". It isn't. This is your typical cop out. Get proved wrong, ignore feats, then scream toonforce. GJ being predictable.

They're not iron, they don't even look like iron and the game never even says they're iron, that's just a name. Where did I use a calculation?
The gorons are incredibly strong, cannot move a man in iron boots. The iron boots are heavy as hell.


"sword of light"?

You mean the Sage's Sword, which only even broke his skin because he didn't have the triforce of power yet? Then he shrugged off the impalement as soon as the triforce of power activated, G.J.


no I dont, I just point out your completly wrong. Yes and many members of KMC AND another forum disagree with your fanon, as does the game itself. Sorry but the games do not even hint at the things your using as fact.

This was kicked in the curb in the last post, its just a poor attempt to try and compare the situations of LoZ around link and LoK, there are hundreds of vamps in LoK, all with credible knowledge and statements because their speaking from a knowledgable perspective they are vampires and know what their capable of and they exist with their own kind. The fact they are immortal, all consistently have magicl or supernatural pwoers negates any of your nonsense.

"whimper whimper whimper!" as I said, get an argument together, wipe the froth from around your face and then begin anew. LoZ proves your wrong. Also your being a hypocrite in this very sentance.

The lack of evidence in LoZ is the proof that I am correct in this argument.

The game shows me Link lifting the block, so?

You didnt actually counter the argument, infact you just took a tiny piece of it and trolled it. Get out from under your bridge, the goats are not coming....

1. Iron boots>that feat it seems
2. Evidence? their just called "iron boots", what claims otherwise?
3. You do need calculations for your lowly arguments to work, the game is not to be taken seriously for the reasons previously mentioned, its just "fun".
4. Ive called it toonforce from the beginning, youve never proven anything wrong, you stating things and argueing your math as canon or your opinion of a cutscene as canon does not help you.

The game calls them iron, case closed unless youve got canon to say otherwise? I assumed you didnt pull the 200 ton goronz! out of your ass? or its just not meant ot be taken seriously and they just cannot lift a man in iron boots, just like most of Ganons monsters cannot beat a child, or Ganons traps cannot trick/outwit a child. Theres a consistency in the canon of the game, theres none in your fanon with the games themselves.

not proven, its not been tried against his skin since he took it out so where your getting the idea it cannot pierce him from I dont know.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Not so. It sealed Ganon in stone at the end of WW without the pedestal of time.
He's someone who's played the game.

durlaugh A normal man can throw giant living rocks?

Yes, they do. You ignore that.. You think Zant had the twilight beasts slaughter Hyrule's soldiers for lulz? They were trying to resist. Couldn't even take shadow beasts, in numbers, while armed and armoured. Link, alone, as a wolf can take on groups of shadow beasts alone.

mmm Seems Link is superior.

Thats nothing to do with taking away his powers or influencing them at all.....

So? that does not make a difference at all tbh. The game does not show him Midna striking Ganon. Youtube cannot change the content of games when vids are uploaded

Thats not canon, thats gameplay and toonforce as well as feats that are not to be taken seriously for their physical acts.

I bet you dont even see the soldiers fight, not that the soldiers have the triforce of courage, Links weapons, Links magic powers etc but physically, their superior because their developed adults and not children.

You've never played the games.

Yes: they do. Go play Twilight Princess, tell me how many references to Link's true power, the triforce, and the spirit of the hero are in it? Loads.

Those are all fallible statements, by your logic. Zelda games are utterly riddled with statements on the power of the triforce and it's pieces, but you choose to ignore that.

You're biased, and hilarious.


LoZ proves you wrong, actually. You'd know that if you played the games


LoZ is full of evidence, and you choose to ignore all of it.

Original. Really. Never heard that before.

Now where's your argument? Proof? Anything?

All you've done is run around screaming toonforce, making retarded claims, and pretending you know something about anything.



Hey, you admitted I'm right by accident. Good job. Sometimes the truth just comes out, eh?

And here you are ignoring all the feats of these enemies, ect..

Cause you know, a creature that can cause powerful shockwaves by striking the ground would lose to a normal child? durlaugh Link isn't just some kid, like we keep telling you. Keep pretending. This is a dead point, go find a new argument.

Midna.

It pans out to show you the destruction. Everything in the cutscene indicates the strike, and there's no reason Nintendo would even have her make the strike if she "couldn't hit him" as you claim. (And have never, and cannot prove.)

You do not decide canon, the game does. Also, we have a cutscene of soldiers gettign their asses kicked. I win.

We have a cutscene where the soldiers fight, and lose.

Also, you're slipping. You're slowly admitting we're right more and more all the time. I already proved Link is physicly superior.

Being a child is irrelevant, so I suggest you stop using that as a title when you refer to Link, Burning Thought. There are countless children in fiction that are highly powerful. It is fallacious to even include the fact that Link is one when discussing his level of power.

Heck, Warcraft has powerful children.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It pans out to show you the destruction. Everything in the cutscene indicates the strike, and there's no reason Nintendo would even have her make the strike if she "couldn't hit him" as you claim. (And have never, and cannot prove.)

You do not decide canon, the game does. Also, we have a cutscene of soldiers gettign their asses kicked. I win.

We have a cutscene where the soldiers fight, and lose.

Also, you're slipping. You're slowly admitting we're right more and more all the time. I already proved Link is physicly superior.

It just shows you a castle collapsing, whether Midna hit it, or her power did that but never actually hit Ganon or Ganon did that damage is unkown.

And your not the game, hence why you cannot call whats canon or not, the game also tells us if someone was as heavy as you claim, it does not, your the one doing it. No "we" dont, post it here.

Ive never even admitted anything at all.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You've never played the games.

Yes: they do. Go play Twilight Princess, tell me how many references to Link's true power, the triforce, and the spirit of the hero are in it? Loads.

Those are all fallible statements, by your logic. Zelda games are utterly riddled with statements on the power of the triforce and it's pieces, but you choose to ignore that.

You're biased, and hilarious.


LoZ proves you wrong, actually. You'd know that if you played the games


LoZ is full of evidence, and you choose to ignore all of it.

Original. Really. Never heard that before.

Now where's your argument? Proof? Anything?

All you've done is run around screaming toonforce, making retarded claims, and pretending you know something about anything.



Hey, you admitted I'm right by accident. Good job. Sometimes the truth just comes out, eh?

And here you are ignoring all the feats of these enemies, ect..

Cause you know, a creature that can cause powerful shockwaves by striking the ground would lose to a normal child? durlaugh Link isn't just some kid, like we keep telling you. Keep pretending. This is a dead point, go find a new argument.

Midna.

Oh I see so your admitting your info is based on nothing but amgiuous titles? just as well I dont bother playing through the game to find out irrelevant info.

No, I even pointed out why their not fallible so your just seeing what you want to see it seems.

A creature that causes shockwaves (animation/gameplay effect no doubt) was beaten by a child, or so we assume since Ive not seen a cutscene of it happening.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Being a child is irrelevant, so I suggest you stop using that as a title when you refer to Link, Burning Thought. There are countless children in fiction that are highly powerful. It is fallacious to even include the fact that Link is one when discussing his level of power.

Heck, Warcraft has powerful children.

Since when is "child" a title? its a stage of human development, often physically and mentally inferior to an adult at least in medieval periods. You bringing up children that are actually powerful does not change anything, if I can bring up humans that are stronger or more powerful than a normal human that does not make the human I am defending as strong as they are. The fact Child # in WoW actually has innate powers drawn out in lore that Link does not, does not defend link. Since your defending him, can you find a canon and credible piece of evidence that suggests he has good reason to be capable of certian feats, and so therefore proving he is consistently innately strong? and not toonforce/illegitimate like I claim?

Ohai.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not really, I am just not assuming every one of his magical attacks are island busting like you are. Whether he takes it easy on link or whether his island buster is a slow attack thats not viable in real combat I dont know, neither do you. We can only assume but tbh, apart from the power whatever he did to blow up the islands is featless, speed, cast time, gesture or spoken word etc.

Well your opinion is on the cutscene, the cutscene itself does not tell you what its intent is I am afraid, and we dont see him get hit, therefore no feat no matter how hard you try.

The plinth is relevant because when the MS was pulled out Ganon said he gained his power again, its just a locking mechanism. Its useless in combat.

Who are you say that isnt true? its never happened and Link is a normal child based on canon, ignoring Screampastes fanon math and the assumption everything in LoZ is 100% physically thought out by all the developers and is made to work with physics then Link by the actual canon is never even implied to be physically superior to an adult. Adults do not even try the things he does, not with all the items he is lucky enough to get his hands on.

Ganon has island busting power. Ganon =/= Sephiroth. Ganon will not be taking it easy on Link.

But it does. As said before, multiple times, the last thing we see is Midna strike at Ganon, and him growl. Then the camera goes to the castle blowing up. The most logical explanation is that Midna struck Ganon and the castle exploded.

Now this is actually very lolzy, because if the Master Sword is merely a key, then wtf is the item that truly kept Ganon's power from him? It only leaves two possibilities, the plinth or the room. Assuming the Master Sword is truly nothing more than a key, the plinth would be the lock. This leaves the room. Now then, I hope everyone who read this was sitting down, because apparently that specific room in Wind Waker is the single most powerful magical barrier in the game.

I used to regard myself as a rather normal calf, but I never had the Triforce of Courage, so I must not have been normal. I couldn't kill Gohma with a sword and a slingshot until I was sixteen, either. I wouldn't actually be surprised if everything we've posted on Link before was thought of. Supposedly there is a lot of stuff in OoT that they left out of the regular game that is now only accessible through hacking. Well, in Ocarina of Time Link is technically the only one who can do it, as he and Zelda are the only ones who knew of Ganon's evil plan. And in TP, adults actually do attempt to do what Link does. Right after the village brats are kidnapped, Rusl goes out and tries to look for them. He fails.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Ohai.



Ganon has island busting power. Ganon =/= Sephiroth. Ganon will not be taking it easy on Link.

But it does. As said before, multiple times, the last thing we see is Midna strike at Ganon, and him growl. Then the camera goes to the castle blowing up. The most logical explanation is that Midna struck Ganon and the castle exploded.

Now this is actually very lolzy, because if the Master Sword is merely a key, then wtf is the item that truly kept Ganon's power from him? It only leaves two possibilities, the plinth or the room. Assuming the Master Sword is truly nothing more than a key, the plinth would be the lock. This leaves the room. Now then, I hope everyone who read this was sitting down, because apparently that specific room in Wind Waker is the single most powerful magical barrier in the game.

I used to regard myself as a rather normal calf, but I never had the Triforce of Courage, so I must not have been normal. I couldn't kill Gohma with a sword and a slingshot until I was sixteen, either. I wouldn't actually be surprised if everything we've posted on Link before was thought of. Supposedly there is a lot of stuff in OoT that they left out of the regular game that is now only accessible through hacking. Well, in Ocarina of Time Link is technically the only one who can do it, as he and Zelda are the only ones who knew of Ganon's evil plan. And in TP, adults actually do attempt to do what Link does. Right after the village brats are kidnapped, Rusl goes out and tries to look for them. He fails.

Ganon takes it easy all the time, he does not use half his powers that weve seen him do and he turns into a physical beast a lot of the time when his magic is so much better. Infact it makes me certain that his magic is probably slow, otherwise why would he transform into a physical powerhouse almost every time he fights link?

midna uses a short ranged weapon and is at a distance from Ganon, we dont actually see any connection going on. Or Midna went to strike and Ganon counterattacked, their magic combined taking out the castle, only ofc Midna lost.

It is just a key, the MS seals his power by shoving it in the plinth, take it out and Ganon has his power back. Other than that, its just a sword with some enhancement against Ganon/evil. it does not necesserily have to be powerful, a dam or two can stop an entire river or ocean from pouring into a region. Point being, its not technically "fighting" the power, just blocking it so the power does not work like how in a electric circuit the power thats the electricity can be stopped.

All he does is look for someone? with what, you have to take into context everything people have at their disposal.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ganon takes it easy all the time, he does not use half his powers that weve seen him do and he turns into a physical beast a lot of the time when his magic is so much better. Infact it makes me certain that his magic is probably slow, otherwise why would he transform into a physical powerhouse almost every time he fights link?

midna uses a short ranged weapon and is at a distance from Ganon, we dont actually see any connection going on. Or Midna went to strike and Ganon counterattacked, their magic combined taking out the castle, only ofc Midna lost.

It is just a key, the MS seals his power by shoving it in the plinth, take it out and Ganon has his power back. Other than that, its just a sword with some enhancement against Ganon/evil. it does not necesserily have to be powerful, a dam or two can stop an entire river or ocean from pouring into a region. Point being, its not technically "fighting" the power, just blocking it so the power does not work like how in a electric circuit the power thats the electricity can be stopped.

All he does is look for someone? with what, you have to take into context everything people have at their disposal.

That would be an assumption. Which you seem to be saying is false when you apply them to Zelda.

None of that makes the obvious intent any less obvious or logical.

But none of that would keep any of the power down and out of the reach of Ganon. And besides, it's stated that the Master Sword did it. And yeah, that's the point. The point was that it's blocking the power, it has to be powerful to do that.

No, he takes his sword and attempts to fight the creatures. He is the best swordsman in Ordon, he taught Link. He gets his ass beat, Link wins.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
That would be an assumption. Which you seem to be saying is false when you apply them to Zelda.

None of that makes the obvious intent any less obvious or logical.

But none of that would keep any of the power down and out of the reach of Ganon. And besides, it's stated that the Master Sword did it. And yeah, that's the point. The point was that it's blocking the power, it has to be powerful to do that.

No, he takes his sword and attempts to fight the creatures. He is the best swordsman in Ordon, he taught Link. He gets his ass beat, Link wins.

Sure its an assumption, we dont have any speed feats on the island destroying magic at all so its not really usable. I am just discussing at the moment, and its not an assumption that he turns into a beast so often, theres no logic in it unless his magic is inferior to his physical strength.

Its not got to be powerful at all, your talking as if the block is a physical barrier. The MS is not even doing it, the MS combined with the plinth created the block. The MS by itself like in a combat situation does nothing.

Show me? an adult with a normal sword? and your admitting he tought link therefore he is mentally>Link considering he was the teacher.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sure its an assumption, we dont have any speed feats on the island destroying magic at all so its not really usable. I am just discussing at the moment, and its not an assumption that he turns into a beast so often, theres no logic in it unless his magic is inferior to his physical strength.

Its not got to be powerful at all, your talking as if the block is a physical barrier. The MS is not even doing it, the MS combined with the plinth created the block. The MS by itself like in a combat situation does nothing.

Show me? an adult with a normal sword? and your admitting he tought link therefore he is mentally>Link considering he was the teacher.

Well how about when it bounces back magic from Trueforce Ganon. We know there's power behind that.

It has to be some kind of a barrier, otherwise it wouldn't have kept Ganon's power cut off from himself. And there is absolutely nothing that says that plinth is magical.

Ugh. I'll find some video when I'm not lazy. Yes, an adult with a normal sword. And yeah, Rusl would be > Link mentally when it comes to swordplay, but there's no mention of anything else. By the time Link finds the brats he is a far better swordsman than Rusl is.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Well how about when it bounces back magic from Trueforce Ganon. We know there's power behind that.

It has to be some kind of a barrier, otherwise it wouldn't have kept Ganon's power cut off from himself. And there is absolutely nothing that says that plinth is magical.

Ugh. I'll find some video when I'm not lazy. Yes, an adult with a normal sword. And yeah, Rusl would be > Link mentally when it comes to swordplay, but there's no mention of anything else. By the time Link finds the brats he is a far better swordsman than Rusl is.

Hard to tell. With the full power of the goddesses he should have been able to do more than what he did.

Yes but that doesnt mean Ganons power was fighting against the barrier to get back to him or something, you dont need to power to contain something unless its fighting with that power to return. Theres nothing to say this was the case, his power was trapped until Link pulled the sword from the plinth.

How? if Rusl is the one who tought him his skils unless Link learns from someone else.

Unless he had to deal with the Master Sword.

So Ganon knew his power was sealed away, and didn't even bother trying to get it back. There's only one reason he wouldn't bother trying, because the MS is too powerful.

He taught him how to use a sword. So Rusl was > Link in that one area. And he isn't anymore. Link is definitely a better swordsman now.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Unless he had to deal with the Master Sword.

So Ganon knew his power was sealed away, and didn't even bother trying to get it back. There's only one reason he wouldn't bother trying, because the MS is too powerful.

He taught him how to use a sword. So Rusl was > Link in that one area. And he isn't anymore. Link is definitely a better swordsman now.

Which had to be holstered in a plinth just to stop WW triforce of power ganon from having his powers. And you sort of pwned your own point if your saying the power is nullified anyway, therefore reflecting his magic is not much of a feat if its already nullified by the MS. But its not.

Yep, sounds like Ganon to me. lol.....thats a pretty ambigous claim, maybe he didnt know where it was? you keep trying to pull that one on me when I ask why he didnt bother protecting it with everything hes got.

"shrug" hes had more teachings from wiser entities like those hyrule ghosts in TP vids who teach him great spin.

Link at the beginning of TP isn't even aware of his abilities, or who he is. By the end of the game he contains the full essence of the heroes spirit or however the Shade phrased it. Essentially: Link by the end game, is Link. Through out the entire game he's slowly unlocking his own power. Considering by dungeon two, he's tossing Dangoro around like a ragdoll, and making impossible shots with a bow(which he's never even held before), I think that says somethin'.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Which had to be holstered in a plinth just to stop WW triforce of power ganon from having his powers. And you sort of pwned your own point if your saying the power is nullified anyway, therefore reflecting his magic is not much of a feat if its already nullified by the MS. But its not.

Yep, sounds like Ganon to me. lol.....thats a pretty ambigous claim, maybe he didnt know where it was? you keep trying to pull that one on me when I ask why he didnt bother protecting it with everything hes got.

"shrug" hes had more teachings from wiser entities like those hyrule ghosts in TP vids who teach him great spin.

Do you seriously think that is a valid argument? Because essentially what you're saying is that that plinth is > Ganon. And when did I say anything about nullified?

...do you even read posts? I've never said he didn't know where anything was, except for Link in OoT, and by the end of the Forest Temple he knows he's there. But again, he's using Link to bring Zelda out of hiding. He definitely knows where Link is at any given point. When he kidnaps Zelda he isn't even on screen in OoT. He's sitting in his castle being badass and goes "Oh, there's Zelda. That ***** is mine now." But yeah, he definitely knew where the Master Sword is. It froze his minions in time and he knows that Hyrule is underneath the Great Sea.

This helps you because...