Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Kain gets his reaver and powers, and Drake gets all his equipment and stuff.

The battle takes place in a football field, with invisible walls, no BFRs or running away.

*facepalm*

I know you're trying to cheer BT up with a match he can actually win.

But please, no spite threads.

It's not spite. Kain's feats are all toonforce and the only statement about the reaver is falliable, it comes from Kain himself.
link-rape

Kains toonforce now?

By BT's logic, yes. I advise you to check the Ganondorf v.s. Azeroth thread, for examples of BT's logic.

Fallible statements are fallible. This is like, a second epic backfire.

drake wins due to his game being alot better than any Kain game

Also, he has a gun.

correction...alot of guns. This is by far one of my favorite games, and i won't let him lose to the likes of Kain!!

hey scream, another good Canadian fact. Hayden Christensen, the guy who played Anakin in ep 2,3 is from Canada.

I actually lold at this childish sad little bait.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, he has a gun.

Does he have wooden stakes, garlic, and silver bullets?

I'm gonna start counting again. For the sake of being conservative and awesome, I will begin with the assumption that the counter is at 42.

Edit: Silver is werewolves, Art. Needs moar crucifixes.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I actually lold at this childish sad little bait.
So you concede?

Hes a bloke with some Guns, silly thread, I cant concede when I had not even started an argument yet. I cannot concede to the lollinkclub either because their not debators, their trolls.

We've made the argument that guns > Kain.

If you do not debate in his favour you concede and the thread is over, Drake wins.

im not a troll......*sniff *sniff

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

If you do not debate in his favour you concede and the thread is over, Drake wins.

If I dont debate I concede? that means youve conceded in every thread I have seen you in. Also learn what conceding means, then you will realise why me conceding if I dont debate is worthy of lulz.

You're forfeiting?

I see no argument.

Gun > Kain.

You know BT, you never did answer those questions I asked about fallibility.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'm gonna start counting again. For the sake of being conservative and awesome, I will begin with the assumption that the counter is at 42.

Edit: Silver is werewolves, Art. Needs moar crucifixes.

Depending on the kind of vampire fiction (Blade), silver bullets are a weakness.

Just tell BT how much you love him Scream, all of this flirting is starting to irritate me.

Nathan Drake wins.

/facepalm

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
drake wins due to his game being alot better than any Kain game

The whole story and game of LoK, BO, and SR are way better than Uncharted.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
The whole story and game of LoK, BO, and SR are way better than Uncharted.

Pretty much. Also, Kain wins.

i never said the story was better. i said the game was better. has won more awards, people like it more, etc...learn to comprehend what you are reading

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
The whole story and game of LoK, BO, and SR are way better than Uncharted.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
i never said the story was better. i said the game was better. has won more awards, people like it more, etc...learn to comprehend what you are reading


link-rape

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
i never said the story was better. i said the game was better. has won more awards, people like it more, etc...learn to comprehend what you are reading

Did you see the part where I said game as well? What's not to like about Uncharted? It's not bad, but it's pretty generic for it's genre in my opinion so I don't doubt why people would like it. LoK is a rare specimen that did extremely well. Can you comprehend what you're reading?

sniped.

lol. you people are funny

Nice exit strategy.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
i never said the story was better.

Yes, yes you did.

Hey look, BT's derailing. He knows he can't debate in this thread.
link-rape

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Nice exit strategy.

an exit strategy from an argument on what kind of wording was used to determine which was a better game....yes you caught me. i was trying to exit from that so i could avoid further humiliation. i hate you caught me....

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Hey look, BT's derailing. He knows he can't debate in this thread.
link-rape


You are so desperate for me to take you seriously its unbearable. Go back to ya fanon ya little tunic lacky!

I choose not to debate this, because its of no interest to me, I debate things that I belive I "may" be convinced otherwise. I know for a fact the outcome of this battle is Kain wins.

G.J. You made an assertion, now you have to prove it.

a fact huh? this should be interesting

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Just tell BT how much you love him Scream, all of this flirting is starting to irritate me.

This thread: gay_rage approved.

i have to ask where rage came from?

What's with all the Link beaver smile pictures?

They're there because they can be. They're sacred.

So, Nathan Drake wins via bullet to the face. BT made an assertion, but could not prove it. Case closed.

^ Agreed.

Nathan drake does not have the 0.3 seconds of extra mental perception time he needs to realise Kain there before hes cleaved.

And Kain isnt a bullet timer.

Define bullet timer?

kain can dodge a guys aim, because he can move and react at times quicker than a guy can correct his aim. Humans cannot even percieve Kain before he can slice them, their censory is not fast enough.

Someone who can dodge bullets.

I'd like to see some form of proof of this. It's not like Drake starts out unable to see Kain and then Kain just appears randomly behind him. This is a fair fight, no element of surprise.

Edit: I might just let BloodRain handle this thread. He seems to have more patience with you than I do.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Edit: I might just let BloodRain handle this thread. He seems to have more patience with you than I do.
Less patient after the lock.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Someone who can dodge bullets.
^ That.
Kain will have to activate his teleport, by then he's be full of lead given that Drake isnt a complete moron.

I'll try not to get this one locked Sorry again.

Based on the mental Chronometry of human brain:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry

Kain is too fast for nathan to even begin a stimulai in his brain for a moving object. 330ms. It takes 5-800 seconds to actually fully comprehend the object according to the "answerbag" link in the now locked thread.

So....assuming Kain gave Nathan some time to reach stimulas, he wouldnt comprehend Kain, only see a blur before him if anything unltil his brain cought up with Kains movement.

Tell that to a skeet shooter. Also since when can Kain move that quickly?

ignoring the actual teleport itself, Kain still has to think, percieve and strike THEN think and percieve the next target within the 0.2 seconds he has before he teleports to the next target.

His reaction time would need to be incredible, Nathan would never be able to hit Kain even if he did attempt a shot at the blur coming towards him as Kain unless he is under PIS in this thread would not stay in the direction Nathan is slowly aiming his weapon, certainly not before the stimulate finally reaches concious thought and Nathan pulls the trigger.

Takes him half a second to activate it. Bullet can get to him faster then that.

I'd also like to point out, that normal people in target shooting must also have incredible creation time. >_>

Originally posted by BloodRain
Takes him half a second to activate it. Bullet can get to him faster then that.

Assuming the bullet does anything at all, yes it can. Thing is the stimulas in Nathans brain would take half a second to comprehend Kain at all, let alone concious thought, decision and actually pulling the trigger.

Ofc that figuire is based on a stationary image, my last link points out that the brain takes longer to focus on a moving object.

So it would be 500 to comprehend, an extra 330 on a moving object.

The human eye has its limits though, Kain may even be invisible to Nathan. Then he gets done to him what happens to Moebius in the end

Not that Kain cant just gesture, pull the gun from Nathans hand and then shoot him with his own weapon.

And how long it takes Kain to decide to use it = Drake deciding to shoot.

Aren't those feats all, y'know...

TOONFORCE?! dun dun dunnnnnnnn

No, because as weve seen Kain can actually move, slash and percieve his next target perfectly in the 0.2 seconds, Kain can achieve in 0.2 seconds what the human brain could never even begin to comprehend or percieve, Kain could do this more than twice before Nathans brain even gets the stimulas.

Or, you know, he had already planned out what he was going to do upon deciding to use the multiple teleports.

1. 0.333.
2. Teleport = moveing to target. All thats left is slashing.
2 1/2. Hence 0.333
3. If Drakes familiar with a gun he'll make the shot.

Wouldnt change much of anything, A lot of my results on human reaction time is based on the Jensens box which is a experiment where the guinea pigs know exactly what they need to do, e.g. press buttons when they light up.

Kain would still have to have an extremely fast mind to be able to react at those speeds, he shouldnt even be able to percieve these knights and where to strike, let alone do the movement.
Originally posted by BloodRain
1. 0.333.
2. Teleport = moveing to target. All thats left is slashing.
2 1/2. Hence 0.333
3. If Drakes familiar with a gun he'll make the shot.

1. Base reaction stimulas without accounting for movement or perception. This is not concious thought. Stimulas remember?

2. Ignore the teleportation itself, I am talking about what Kain does between the end of the last teleport and before he teleports to his next target. He has to percieve, move, strike and decide on where to strike then decide his next opponent, then decide to teleport. It would add up to 0.7+ just for the stimulas for a human unless we assume 0.7 is the base, which would be reaction on instinct, this is not Kains instinct.

3. He knows how to use a gun, this is not going to change matters unless he had training against targets moving as quick as this. In which case he "may" get lucky and pull off a shot, in which case it wont hit, because Kains reaction allows him to pretty much see it all in slow motion, Drake would seem rediciulously slow to Kains extreme mental speeds.

0.333 is Kains fastest moves.

percieve, move, strike and decide on where to strike
^tele - port^, ^strike - ^

Kains mental speed isnt that fast above normal, if that.

So I'm wondering why BT gets to use gameplay to calculate a reaction time for Kain, but Ganon can't.

Originally posted by BloodRain
0.333 is Kains fastest moves.

percieve, move, strike and decide on where to strike
^tele - port^, ^strike - ^

Kains mental speed isnt that fast above normal, if that.

It was calculated in the thread as an easy 0.2 by many people, wheres this 0.333 coming from?

And you claim Kain being able to not only make concious decision, attack and move while percieving a moving target in 0.333 not above normal when a human would not even have had the stimulas required to percieve Kain stationary?

You just ignored my post, put down your figuire and said something illogical based on it.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
So I'm wondering why BT gets to use gameplay to calculate a reaction time for Kain, but Ganon can't.

Ganons an NPC, balance is important for Ganons actions in gameplay. Also what feat are you suggesting?

Where?

Cant remember which, an old thread.

So a player controlled character's gameplay is more reliable than an NPC's, which technically isn't even gameplay since the player cannot play said NPC.

Yeah, and i checked again. 0.333

Teleport is the whole movement. Not as much thought in it as you think.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Yeah, and i checked again. 0.333

Teleport is the whole movement. Not as much thought in it as you think.

Show me your calculations please?

Kain has to do all of those things I stated, think, move, strike. The movement itself is a concious, deicsion making activity as is the use of his sword.

My evidence on the human brain means a human would not even get sensory stimulas for those events.

What do you mean "teleport is the whole movement", teleport is not movement, teleport is what Kain is doing after each attack, and at the beginning.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
So a player controlled character's gameplay is more reliable than an NPC's, which technically isn't even gameplay since the player cannot play said NPC.

Depends if its static or not, the move I am talking about is a an ability, the only thing the player decides is when to use it. The actual function of the ability is static and unaltered by gameplay.

Assuming your talking about Ganon blocking Links great spins, this is not static because its the players decision to actually do said spins. The fact the A.I can react is not a canon feat.

Actually, the fact they programmed the A.I. To react to it that way does show he was intended to be able to deal with it. Ganon's sword fight A.I. is actually pretty detailed as far as I can tell. They gave him special scripting for each of Link's hidden techniques and weapons.

Or that they wanted you to fight the boss a particulour way, the boss needed to be harder etc, balance, gameplay mechanics etc etc, not canon. Neither is player decision.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Depends if its static or not, the move I am talking about is a an ability, the only thing the player decides is when to use it. The actual function of the ability is static and unaltered by gameplay.

Assuming your talking about Ganon blocking Links great spins, this is not static because its the players decision to actually do said spins. The fact the A.I can react is not a canon feat.

So why do you ignore Link's? The only thing the player decides is when to use it, and it then ends at what was it, 0.15?

No calculation. Watched Defiance gameplay. Timed it based on 20 recordings. 0.333

Perceive and move = teleport. That plus a slash is whats happening, not that it matters as his start-up time is long enough to get a shot in.

Funny, he can block every hidden technique, except the mortal draw, which is stated to be impossible to defend against. He defends against every weapon, too.

The mortal draw isn't a balance concern?

The only thing you can use in this fight is your sword, that's the challenge. Outfight the A.I. in a sword only duel.

Originally posted by BloodRain
No calculation. Watched Defiance gameplay. Timed it based on 20 recordings. 0.333

Perceive and move = teleport. That plus a slash is whats happening, not that it matters as his start-up time is long enough to get a shot in.

You cannot count in milliseconds however? I just watched it myself about 10 times, Kain takes 5 guys in less than 2 seconds, the first teleport and activation of the reaver taking much longer, perhaps about 0.6, the mini teleports between are instant as far as human perception could ever measure. Prob 0.1-0.15. Kain does things between there that the human brain would not even record in 5 times that, let alone act on what its stimulus has percieved.

Teleportation is Kain just moving his body to where he needs to be, he then has to percieve, move his arms to strike what hes percieving, make a decision (what kind of slash) twice because hes still got to decide on what enemy to target next. Humans could never

Now this is the only thing debatable, start up time assuming Kain uses teleport is around 0.6-0.8 seconds to activate the reavers teleportation. 0.5 and Nathan percieves Kain, +0.3 because Kain is moving, Nathan has to also make a decision, this all increases the time it takes. Then concious movement of himself. I think he would be very very lucky to get off a shot, it may even miss considering hes not aiming or being accurate, his mind would have only just cought up with the stimulas.

Thars another thing, Ganon can block arrows fired from Link.

In a cutscene?

No, in his boss fight. Technically he can block Light Arrows too, since in WW you need to bounce Tetra's shots off the Mirror Shield in order to hit him in the back.

Originally posted by Burning thought

0.333, just did. By your '5 in 1.4 seconds' thats 0.28. Are you basing a human brain combined with teleportation?

Teleportatio is moving to a desired location, most of the decision is already done. Again, basing on humans without teleporting.

That 0.5 is perceiving before action, same will be for Kain before he uses his.

Link

D:<

Originally posted by BloodRain
0.333, just did. By your '5 in 1.4 seconds' thats 0.28. Are you basing a human brain combined with teleportation?

Teleportatio is moving to a desired location, most of the decision is already done. Again, basing on humans without teleporting.

That 0.5 is perceiving before action, same will be for Kain before he uses his.



D:<

Why would I combine a human brain with teleportation? my evidence is based on real people, they dont have teleportation do they....

Yes, your right, in 0.6 Kain decides on the first spot where he will teleport to, bends back in his animation for the reaver spell and casts his magic, therefore doing the teleportation. Thats already decision, movement and perception, thats 0.1 second more than it takes for a human to percieve a non moving object kains already>>>human RT, hell he only just gets beaten by human stimulas/brain waves by 0.1.

This is his first move, adding the fact he actually moves to perform the spell, this is not just a brainwave were talking about.

Now thats only the first part. His brain has to percieve, think, reckon on the next target to teleport to and slash, move etc (again, not brainwaves, this is actual concious movement). Every time he teleports between the guys, who are moving btw so he may have to take into account their positions, angle etc. Thats impossible for the human brain to even comprehend let alone to react to. Adding the fact Kain is using some sort of magic to teleport, means Kains multitasking, thinking etc as well.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Because teleport attack is just attack>teleport>attack. Not much more thinking then attack>move>attack.

Deciding to teleport \
} Deciding to act.
Deciding to shoot /

Not bothered to go into it but from what youve said Kain is faster then normal. Still a window of time open for the bullet to land.

'Improbable' as normal humans may not be able to, everything youve said points to Kain being above the normal guy but. None of that is impossible.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Because teleport attack is just attack>teleport>attack. Not much more thinking then attack>move>attack.

Deciding to teleport \
} Deciding to act.
Deciding to shoot /

Not bothered to go into it but from what youve said Kain is faster then normal. Still a window of time open for the bullet to land.

'Improbable' as normal humans may not be able to, everything youve said points to Kain being above the normal guy but. None of that is impossible.

Kain still has to move and percieve, his enemies as well as make concious thought on to what enemy to attack next. All of these things he can do in less the time it takes for a human to even feel the stimulas of thought, Kain literally can outmove a brainwave or as good as one in the stimulas.

Nathan cannot decide to shoot until his brain has even percieved Kain. Also assuming Kain does not teleport, whats stopping him from just blocking Nathans aim on his sword? Nathan fires, Kain blocks, then uses TK and does what he wants.

Not impossible for Kain, but a human, no human afaik has ever conciously made, even Kung fu artists work based on concious reactions and taking into account their entire environment, sound, movement etc but Kain does all of this off the bat, as soon as he appears from nowhere. Even martial art masters cannot ignore brain waves even if they have trained themselves to react, even sub conciously to various things like punches through training.

Originally posted by Burning thought /QUOTE]

If Kain needs to put much thought into who to go to next, doens doest t show much for his thought speed. Btw you said something about 500ms... or something?

Same as Kain not being able to activate his powers until he know whats going on. Kain can block an array of bullets now? '

''even Kung fu artists work based on concious reactions and taking into account their entire environment, sound, movement etc'' If any martial artist takes time to think about all of that they deserve to be knocked out by someone who knows what he's doing. Pros do this off the bat.
Kanis thoughts and actions arnt far above human capability.

Speed of what? Teleporting?

Originally posted by BloodRain


If Kain needs to put much thought into who to go to next, doens doest t show much for his thought speed. Btw you said something about 500ms... or something?

Same as Kain not being able to activate his powers until he know whats going on. Kain can block an array of bullets now? '

''even Kung fu artists work based on concious reactions and taking into account their entire environment, sound, movement etc'' If any martial artist takes time to think about all of that they deserve to be knocked out by someone who knows what he's doing. Pros do this off the bat.
Kanis thoughts and actions arnt far above human capability.

Speed of what? Teleporting?

Your mistaking concious thought, for brainwave stimulai, Kain can process concious thought and carry out activities, movements etc (and cast teleport) in less than half the time it takes for a humans brain to even begin the stimulai. 500ms is how long it takes for a human brain to comprehend/percieve an object. 330ms for the brain to even register the stimulai of another moving object.

Yes, only a human takes 0.5, Kain takes a tiny fraction of that. If Kain can move his sword in less than half the time it takes for nathans brain to finish processing what hes seeing, yes.

You seem to be misunderstanding "time to think about" and "thought stimulas", concious thought and stimulas are two different things. Martial artists through training learn to work off reflex based on sound/movement and more important than anything, prediction based on heightened senses. Kain is similiar, only hes doing things such as fully concious movements before the human brain can even stimulate.

So:

Nathan- based on the assumption Kain is standing still the whole time to allow for the human brain, eye to process. Times are in MS.

0.01 battle starts
0.1-0.5 Nathans brain attempts to stimulate so Nathan can see Kain.
0.5+the time it takes for his brain to make decisions, I think this was an extra few hundred MS.
0.7 he aims.

Kain:

0.01 battle starts
0.1/2 Kains sword moves into position to match where Nathan is aiming.

by 0.7 Kain has plenty of time to have had his sword in the right place.

Seriously you guys, Was this really necessary? Starting today, I'm turning over new leaf. I'm going to be kind, respectful, tolerant, and understanding. You all should join me. I'm even going to put more effort into proper grammer.

Those are all good ideas as long as no antagonism starts showing up in posts between people. Although I am not sure I can chip in for grammar since I am too bad at it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Those are all good ideas as long as no antagonism starts showing up in posts between people. Although I am not sure I can chip in for grammar since I am too bad at it.

I'm even going to take you off of my ignore list. NO MORE ANIMOSITY and you can beat on that. I have seen the light.

Excellent. Well I will at least give it a try.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Seriously you guys, Was this really necessary? Starting today, I'm turning over new leaf. I'm going to be kind, respectful, tolerant, and understanding. You all should join me. I'm even going to put more effort into proper grammer. I can't disagree with this. I wish you luck with your new leaf, and better grammar.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Just to shorten this all; Kain chaining teleport attacks does not mean he can think faster then human potential.
If they know what they're doing it wont take as much time as you think.

Besides him not being able to teleport in time he wont be able to move fast enough. Unless he know where Drake is aiming and adjust at bullet speed. Never shown anything near thins.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Seriously you guys, Was this really necessary? Starting today, I'm turning over new leaf. I'm going to be kind, respectful, tolerant, and understanding. You all should join me. I'm even going to put more effort into proper grammer.

<-- Has already joined?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Just to shorten this all; Kain chaining teleport attacks does not mean he can think faster then human potential.
If they know what they're doing it wont take as much time as you think.

Besides him not being able to teleport in time he wont be able to move fast enough. Unless he know where Drake is aiming and adjust at bullet speed. Never shown anything near thins.


No, Kain moving, attacking, and doing all the concious motives required in 0.2 seconds when a human cannot even percieve stimulai in the brain until 0.5, does make him faster however. The fact he teleports is irrelevant.
You mean as much as time as the three experimants in the wikis I presented think.

He just has to adjust to aim, Drake cannot think quicker than Kain moves, he can just about begin the process.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I can't disagree with this. I wish you luck with your new leaf, and better grammar.

So You choose to walk a path of chaos and destruction...the war will never end for you.

Originally posted by Burning thought

It doesnt, same as a normal person that can teleport, 'sides Drake can get his shot off by 0.7 while Kain is still there. And normal person driving to breaking =/= Expertly trained martial artist. Not the point.

Doesnt change the fact that Kain cant block bullets.

Originally posted by BloodRain
It doesnt, same as a normal person that can teleport, 'sides Drake can get his shot off by 0.7 while Kain is still there. And normal person driving to breaking =/= Expertly trained martial artist. Not the point.

Doesnt change the fact that Kain cant block bullets.

"sigh" you didnt read the "teleport is irrelevant" part?

And Kain can move his sword in the predicted path of a bullet before 0.3, get the picture?

Read. Has relevance.

Kains fastest movement is for this is 3-6m/s, bullet 800m/s. Lucky to block one, Drake can shoot more the once. Besides Kain can predict where the bullet will go.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Read. Has relevance.

Kains fastest movement is for this is 3-6m/s, bullet 800m/s. Lucky to block one, Drake can shoot more the once. Besides Kain can predict where the bullet will go.

You still fail to realise that Kain can move his sword in any direction he wants in 0.2 milliseconds and it takes 0.5 just for the bloke to percieve Kain and +0.2 aim accordingly, how fast the bullet goes is irrelevant if Nathans aim looks as slow to Kain as a milk float. Kain just moves the sword along with Nathans aim, Kains sword does the blocking, the bullets speed is irrelevant.

You know this is just for lulz because Kain at 0.2 does not have to swing his sword, he could just gesture and have Nathan and his gun flying into the air.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Realised already. Unless Kain can judge the exact angle of the barrel for the trajectory of the bullets, hasnt shown anything to claim this.

Though range wise Guns>Kains TK.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Realised already. Unless Kain can judge the exact angle of the barrel for the trajectory of the bullets, hasnt shown anything to claim this.

Though range wise Guns>Kains TK.

He doesnt have to judge remember? his reflexes mean he can do movements in 0.2 while Nathan is just getting his little brain stimulai, weve been through this already. Kains brain allow shim to make movements at 0.2, so his actual brain stimulai would be under 0.1, his aim would be easy to judge when he can make quick movements with his sword with every brain wave Nathan needs to even re-direct his gun.

Whats range got to do with Kain just smashing Nathan or his guns to hell with TK?

Originally posted by Burning thought /QUOTE]

Reflexes high human, not even peak humans can react like that. ''Kains brain allow shim to make movements at 0.2, so his actual brain stimulai would be under 0.1'' 0.2 movements are within human speeds, so his brain stimuli isnt much higher then average by what youve said.
Again maybe get lucky and block one, not more.

Well for one, being out ranges he cant use TK on Drake.

Blood, hold your ground, sir. Don't let BT scale up reaction time he doesn't have or demonstrate.

Dont mind him exaggerating, just more satisfying to take down.

We all know Kain hasnt got high RT.

Originally posted by BloodRain

Reflexes high human, not even peak humans can react like that. ''Kains brain allow shim to make movements at 0.2, so his actual brain stimulai would be under 0.1'' 0.2 movements are within human speeds, so his brain stimuli isnt much higher then average by what youve said.
Again maybe get lucky and block one, not more.

Well for one, being out ranges he cant use TK on Drake.

No they cant, but Kains not a human. 0.2 movements, sure when their randomly punching thin air, no human has made a thought process, decision, stimulai, motioned and then chose another target in 0.2, based on 3 piecies of evidence the human brain can only just about stimulate at 0.5, let alone allow motion, decision and accuracy at 0.2. Whoever your talking about, that 0.2 is not a reaction feat.

Kain could block Drakes slow human reflexes just by judging his aim, over and over and over, each time Drakes going to have to correct his error which takes 0.4 milliseconds if he wants to hit Kain, which ofc is impossible becaue Kain still has 0.2 feats of moving his sword.

You imply TK has a range? what makes you say that?

Originally posted by Burning thought

You dont have to be a human to have human RT :/ Bruce Lee for starters, all that in 0.17 seconds. The average human in those situations, not an expert in a fight. Thing is, Kain cant move in 0.2 either. Its 0.333.

Compared to Kains normal reflexes Theres no correcting errors, just shooting multiple times.

From all gameplay videos.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You dont have to be a human to have human RT :/ Bruce Lee for starters, all that in 0.17 seconds. The average human in those situations, not an expert in a fight. Thing is, Kain cant move in 0.2 either. Its 0.333.

Compared to Kains normal reflexes Theres no correcting errors, just shooting multiple times.

From all gameplay videos.

Show me him doing it? 0.333 based on you doing the same as me, where I got 0.28, it doesnt help poor old Nathan whos got 0.7 before he even aims his gun at Kain. Then when he shoots Kains sword because Kain was sitting ready since 0.2, or 0.5 whenever it first became predictable where he was going to aim and has to correct his aim, error correction= another 0.4 seconds until Nathan runs out of bullets, or Kain casually walks towards him only to gut him when he gets close.

How can you claim it has a range from the videos? has Kain ever attempted a TK at long range and was not able to then? I dont remember that happening.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Depends, should i waste my time finding videos or wait for you to show Kains above human RT. So we're in agreement that it takes him 0.3, good. And 0.3 is only slash speed without his thought time.

Kains never TKd anything beyond a specific range.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Depends, should i waste my time finding videos or wait for you to show Kains above human RT. So we're in agreement that it takes him 0.3, good. And 0.3 is only slash speed without his thought time.

Kains never TKd anything beyond a specific range.

Its a waste of time anyway, Nathan is not a peak human, hes not a martial artist with training of body or mind. And I would like you to find a video, I want to see if i am correct in assuming its just Bruce lee in a film or punching thin air, not actually reacting to anything. No, 0.3 is everything, unless your assuming Kain has precog? he knows the movements of his enemies and the slashes he needs to do before he teleports? lol no Kain has no precog, every time he appears his brain is perceving images and he has to decide and slash in 0.2, you cant ignore those things. He cant decide to slash, or percieve enemies in the future for when he teleports.

a "specific" range being? you seem shaky on this subject. Logically TK has no limit on the range other than the distance a character can see, if he can see his opponent then the distance between them is irrelevant. Their not projectiles of TK, their telekinetic bonds that appear around the target.

Originally posted by Burning thought

And nor is Kains RT or mind. Punching thin air isnt much difference to contact. No vid of Kains reactions, no point unless you find that. 0.3 is the slash. Sounded like you were talking to yourself for a second Not ignore, im simple seeing what is shown. Appears and slashes, nothing high about that.

Shaky? No. Waiting for proof on two things? Yes. Thats your logic on TK, backed up by nothing.

Without any proof theres no point in continuing.

Originally posted by BloodRain
And nor is Kains RT or mind. Punching thin air isnt much difference to contact. No vid of Kains reactions, no point unless you find that. 0.3 is the slash. Sounded like you were talking to yourself for a second Not ignore, im simple seeing what is shown. Appears and slashes, nothing high about that.

Shaky? No. Waiting for proof on two things? Yes. Thats your logic on TK, backed up by nothing.

Without any proof theres no point in continuing.

Feats show otherwise. No, both are vastly different to reacting to something. Weve got it, youve mathed them at 0.3, I have at 0.28 estimation. I sort of asked you a question and then answered it myself in the same post. Your seeing Kain do something a man couldnt do in twice that time. Yes because moving your body and slashing does not take any brain waves, nor does choosing your target, angle of slash..oh wait no, it does....every movement of a body requires brainwave stimulas, a humans just happens to be around 0.7, not 0.28

Backed up by nothing? Kain lifts moebius, a sarafan soldier in cutscenes and theres no physical bond between either. Only facts that we can see is that Kain seems to gesture for movement and has to see his enemy.

Indeed, no proof of peak humans reacting at 0.17, no proof Nathan has any chance of even aiming at Kain before being cut in half.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Wrong, again. From the videos its 0.333 you say 0.28 so i lowered it to 0.3. Selective hearing kiddo. ''moving your body and slashing does not take any brain waves, nor does choosing your target, angle of slash'' so you think each one of those takes that long?

Thats weight not distance.

Actually you'd have to prove that Kain has above normal mind in that way before i need so disprove it by showing evidence.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Wrong, again. From the videos its 0.333 you say 0.28 so i lowered it to 0.3. Selective hearing kiddo. ''moving your body and slashing does not take any brain waves, nor does choosing your target, angle of slash'' so you think each one of those takes that long?

Thats weight not distance.

Actually you'd have to prove that Kain has above normal mind in that way before i need so disprove it by showing evidence.

The tests in my evidence shows that simple reaction, which is a reaction without actually doing anything about it is 0.3, brain waves for actually doing something about something is 0.5 (the test was just pressing a button) , it then goes on to say that adding choice, decision and error correction among other things all adds time to this. My other source on brain waves has that diagram that shows us it takes 330 seconds before stimulas in the brain even activates, and Kains already moving, let alone stimulas. Your ignoring this. Each one of those activities adds time, and overall should take vastly more than 0.2-0.3 if an average human takes 0.5 just for stimulas. A driver in my other example in the other thread took 0.7 to put on the brakes, this is a guy whos trained in doing that over and over (if you drive you would know), not just some guy with a Gun facing off the bat someone hes never seen before, moving at speeds he cannot comprehend. Yet your assuming hes going to move with expert efficency and fire accurate shots when Kain can make movement and action before his stimulai even comes into effect.

Distance is space that Kains Tk does not travel.

I have shown evidence that human brains dont stimulate until 0.5, your saying despite actually achieving activity and movement at 0.3 Kains not got stimulas higher than a human?

Originally posted by Burning thought

You cant just put two pieces of different evidence together without working out the base, difference and relation. Doesn't matter, Kain doesn't show above normal reactions. All that is summarised by 'slash opponent' and to compare a drivers breaking to gunfire? Not entirely the same. One major difference is that he can see his target. Remember this is before he moves at 'speeds'. No i just think he's a good shot, thats all thats needed.

Distance is the reach of the 'grab'

But youre forgetting to show evidence that Kain can move faster then this. You fail to see the connection and im not going to point it out to you. ''Kain can make movement and action before his stimulai even comes into effect.'' give you a hint, start here.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You cant just put two pieces of different evidence together without working out the base, difference and relation. Doesn't matter, Kain doesn't show above normal reactions. All that is summarised by 'slash opponent' and to compare a drivers breaking to gunfire? Not entirely the same. One major difference is that he can see his target. Remember this is before he moves at 'speeds'. No i just think he's a good shot, thats all thats needed.

Distance is the reach of the 'grab'

But youre forgetting to show evidence that Kain can move faster then this. You fail to see the connection and im not going to point it out to you. ''Kain can make movement and action before his stimulai even comes into effect.'' give you a hint, start here.

"sigh" your faily to comprehend the effects of stimulai, my info shows it to you, you must just be ignoring it because you saw Jackie chan swing a punch in some movie or your overly bias, the info quite clearly shows how stimulai works and its at 0.5 for comprehension of a stationary object, if you want to ignore facts then fine, according to you Kain does not even have to wait for stimulation in the brain before he makes movements. The event is not the same, human stimulation remains the same however, the driver breaking has the advantage of doing something he has trained for, I have no evidence to suggest Nathan is a weapons specialist with his guns and I know hes not trained himself to quick draw and fire accuratly against an opponent like Kain.

Kains brain has to percieve, function and think in 0.2 as well as move. The human brain cannot stimulate until 0.5, let alone do anything about it.

Tk does not cover space, hence distance is irrelevent.

No I see what your trying to do, you seem to be assuming Kain does not have to stimulate when he sees enemies. Kains brain would have to do all this every time he teleports, because hes not seeing/watching the enemy while hes in the space between dimensions after each teleport. His brain is reacting off the charts. I doubt even Dante could do this.

You know it's not very hard to quick draw, right?

I'm pretty sure BT is intentionally misinterpretting things in a way that would give Kain an advantage. This does not surprise me.

It's all bullshit anyway, he's using gameplay.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You know it's not very hard to quick draw, right?

Depends, its not very hard to play tennis, doesnt mean I can react to the best players. Drawring a weapon and accuratly fireing in less than 0.2 I would like to see.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'm pretty sure BT is intentionally misinterpretting things in a way that would give Kain an advantage. This does not surprise me.

Funny, I was thinking the opposite about Bloodrain, he seems to be ignoring human stimulas and the fact Kain stimulates and makes concious actions in less than half the time.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's all bullshit anyway, he's using gameplay.

static canon ability, its as scripted as any cutscene.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Depends, its not very hard to play tennis, doesnt mean I can react to the best players. Drawring a weapon and accuratly fireing in less than 0.2 I would like to see.

static canon ability, its as scripted as any cutscene.

Your entire argument is based around that Kain can perceive in that amount of time. He still needs to use the attack and move to do it. He's got a lot more to do than Drake does.

And this is where I point out, that so is Ganon's stuff.

He's stacking times, to make it look like Kain is doing less in more time, as well. Any normal human could move by someone and poke them with a weapon, and Kain's never shown percieving acting or reacting at an above human level.

BT, until you correct yourself on this theres no point in you bringing up feats you cant back Seeing as your whole argument is based of a skim read off wiki no less.

this should never have got this far. BT said he wasn't going to get into this argument at the beginning. its pointless. have some decency and just admit when your character can't do something. Obviously Drake wins because he has something called guns. just stop BT, just stop....go home

Originally posted by BloodRain
BT, until you correct yourself on this theres no point in you bringing up feats you cant back Seeing as your whole argument is based of a skim read off wiki no less.

Theres no correction to be made, i suggest instead of simply copy/pasting your old argument that you read through my wiki, understand that Nathan needs to stimulai and act in over 0.7 and Kain only 0.2/0.3.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Your entire argument is based around that Kain can perceive in that amount of time. He still needs to use the attack and move to do it. He's got a lot more to do than Drake does.

And this is where I point out, that so is Ganon's stuff.


No, my argument is that Kain percives, thinks AND moves in that amount of time because he does. humans cannot even percieve at 0.5.

"sigh" you want to troll this thread into a LoZ debate again?

Kain still needs to perceive like Drake before he acts. Nowhere is it said that his is above normal.

The only reason anything LoZ fits in here is because you refuse to acknowledge every character with the same set of rules. Kain can use gameplay, Ganon can't. Kain can be legitimate without directly connecting reasons and statements, Link can't.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Kain still needs to perceive like Drake before he acts. Nowhere is it said that his is above normal.

He does, just like he has to percieve the Sarafan before he can strike them, he also has to decide on the strike and move. He does this all in 0.2, then his mind percieves the next target. Kain is however at a disadvantage because he is not actually percieving and moving towards his enemy physically, his teleport means he is not actually percieving them at a constant rate, so his brain has to think within the 0.2 that he appears to strike.

Your assuming he is apprently reacting and getting mental stimulai from events that have not even happened. The only time Kain would have time to percieve at 0.5+0.2 is when he first decides to teleport and move in the initial use of the dimension reaver.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
The only reason anything LoZ fits in here is because you refuse to acknowledge every character with the same set of rules. Kain can use gameplay, Ganon can't. Kain can be legitimate without directly connecting reasons and statements, Link can't.

This is off-topic and will likely end in a troll war, therefore I am not answering your questions or assertions. If you want to argue this thread, then do so.

I just did argue this thread. That's the best part.

''Kain would have time to percieve at 0.5+0.2 is when he first decides to teleport'' he have to pervcieve Drake then start his teleport. Creating a small window of being open.

Assuming the absolute first thing on Kain's mind is to teleport.

Originally posted by BloodRain
''Kain would have time to percieve at 0.5+0.2 is when he first decides to teleport'' he have to pervcieve Drake then start his teleport. Creating a small window of being open.

Yes, percieve drake/sarafan, start the teleport,

This is only the beginning to get himself teleported to the first target, he has to teleport again, and again etc to hit the 4 other Sarafan, only 0.2 seconds of time between each one. Each one requires Kains brain to percieve what he is striking, decide on a strike, who to teleport to next etc. Kain is doing everything in 0.2 seconds that Nathan would prob have to do in 1+ seconds. The only thing that takes Kain time is the initial teleport which takes 0.6-0.8 so assuming Nathan is not in character and is an expert marksman and weapons specialist he is still barely quick enough. Is he any of those things?

What allows Kain to strike at 0.2 would allow him to easily move his sword to block Drakes aim which takes around 0.7-1 second to do.

Kain drains his blood.

^ Draing blood doesnt have the range of gun.

Kain has to realise, just by what you assume it is, 0.2 + 0.6-8 to teleport. Drake gets a shot off, again by what youve said, at 0.7.

Good lord, BT just go out with him already so I don't have to experience nauseating threads like these.

Blood Rain and BT debating the speed with which Kain can act is nauseating?

Good point, this isnt my fight.

/Z out.

I notice the Sephiroth fan is pushing for Scream and BT pretty hard. Now why would he do that?

Hm. He's a fan of an effeminate male in the body of his alien mawm, who for some reason wants a coupling between a fan of a green clad teenager, and a fan of a wrinkly vampire.

I'm thinking FC wants the creepiest collaborative fanfiction ever.

Wait wut? Sephiroth has an Oedipus thing?

Yah.

Jenova is the much wanked entity who's the basis for the S.O.L.D.I.E.R. program and who Seph ..we'll say 'merged' with 131.

Also possible.

Seems they both crave my attention. This is flattering and all, but uh.. Why can't I have this effect on certain other members of this forum? mmm

Sorry Scream, I don't swing that way.

Moo, I'mma kick your ass later. >=|

Hah.

Originally posted by BloodRain
^ Draing blood doesnt have the range of gun.

Kain has to realise, just by what you assume it is, 0.2 + 0.6-8 to teleport. Drake gets a shot off, again by what youve said, at 0.7.

Your talking as if their starting miles apart, the arena itself is a football field. If their far apart then theres also a large likelyness Nathan will miss his shots at long range anyway assuming hes using a pistol.

0.6-0.8 to teleport, but as Kain has shown his reaction time is instant, you seem to be measuring from the first teleport, but he teleports 4 times after that, the time between Kains percepton, movement, decisions (several, sword swing), stimulai reach Kains arms and body in 0.2 as well while Nathans brain has only just started. Remember Kain has to do this every time he teleports, because hes losing his senses to the battle scene every time he teleports/disapears into w/e realm he goes to between porting.

If Kain uses the RT he uses in between teleports to strike a guy, he would at 0.2 easily have his sword protecting him while Nathan has 0.5.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
wants a coupling

"Squeezes Screams knee"

Took into account distance. And Kain hasnt shown those reaction feats. Besides the point. Its the initial teleport that he will be shot on.


BurningPaste or ScreamThought? >.>;

BurningPaste sounds like the single worst STD imaginable, and ScreamThought sounds borderline bonkers.

I choose to remain a solitary entity.

Can't leave your two fanboys hanging, that'd be cruel.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Took into account distance. And Kain hasnt shown those reaction feats. Besides the point. Its the initial teleport that he will be shot on.


BurningPaste or ScreamThought? >.>;

Thats if he uses his time to teleport, if he uses the speed of swing shown before each of his mini teleports at 0.2, he can block Nathans bullets until he runs out, or until Kain can close in. Or he could instead of swinging his sword, swing his hand for TK. If their at any long range distance then Kain does what a human would do, only far faster and just runs past his aim in a circular direction until he gets close enough.

Or he could mist for lulz, float up to Nathan reform his special extremity inside his nostril.

lol at BurningPaste, it has to be that one.

He'll have to act and see the bullets to try and block.

^^; worrying

Just like how he acts and sees the Sarafan before he strikes at 0.2, similiar thing.

Enywayz I am away for the weekend, so enjoy my BurningPaste.