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Omgzorz super dragon-god fight!
Peaks.

Nozdormu

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Nozdormu
Lol, why?

I don't think Akatosh has any feats? I never actually beat the main storyline of Oblivion, I kept getting distracted with random massacres.

Well, the Avatar of Akatosh, but meh. Read the in-game books, Scream. They are pretty interesting.

I did, read a load of 'em.

I just always got sidetracked killing people. I had an entire chest of books in one of my houses.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I did, read a load of 'em.

I just always got sidetracked killing people. I had an entire chest of books in one of my houses.


how many houses do you have??

In Oblivion? Multiple.

I only actually use Deepscorn hollow and the waterfront slum house, though.

IRL? I rent an apartment that I can't even live in.

Akatosh I think is a cosmic warping god or something, I kinda forget.


If this is just the Avatar though, this is spite. Noz would stomp it.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Lol, why?

Akatosh has no means of defending or fighting Nozdormu. How many times has Akatosh stared into the tunnels of time? How often has Akatosh fought time in all its fury? From what I've read: Never.

There's one thing many don't get when discussing Nozdormu: Unless you have powers that are his equal or superior, you can not beat him. Akatosh will be gone before he even knew there was a battle, regardless of his divine status.

I think that is the case for any character in a debate, not just Nozdormu.

Not true. Many, maybe even most characters can be defeated by people below their powerlevel. You just require particular means to do so. Take Korialstrasz for example. He has the power to wipe out entire armies, he can melt a person with a gesture, he master high-level magic, but if he's in his human form, a single bullet from Chris Redfield can kill him.

A bullet can not kill Nozdormu. In fact, a reality buster can't kill Nozdomu unless he has equal or superior time powers.

That's a very relative definition, but I see what you mean.

A reality buster can not kill Nozdormu, because the reality buster will not be able to process a thought before Nozdormu is done with the fight.

If he thinks slowly, then yeah. But who is to judge "x's" thought process? On what info?

You do not understand. There is no slow thinking, fast thinking or good reaction time. Nozdormu will end the battle before the first instant of the fight. He can be faster at thinking than the fastest supercomputer in fiction, and still not be fast enough, for the simple reason that he is not one with time.

Nozdormu is done with the battle before it has properly begun.

Time anomaly.

When has Nozdormu be capable of thinking so quickly?

Also Nozdormu loses every thread before the battle begins, because he begins dead. Therefore Akatatosh.

It's not about how fast Noz thinks.

Also, Akatosh, not Akatatosh.

I guess, but Nozdormu is still dead with the battle before it begins, just as he is done. And we dont know if he was victorious when he was "done"

Not sure where that extra "ta" came from, meh.

Originally posted by Burning thought
When has Nozdormu be capable of thinking so quickly?

Also Nozdormu loses every thread before the battle begins, because he begins dead. Therefore Akatatosh.

Nozdormu does not need to think fast. He start with an eternity of time to do something before his opponent is able to make his first move.

It is fallacious to claim that he start out dead simply because he'll die at one point in his universe, since he's also alive at one point in his universe. When a character has both a living and a dead state, versus automaticly send out the living state of the character unless otherwise is stated. Since this thread specify that it's Nozdormu at his strongest, the Nozdormu fought is the one alive.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Nozdormu does not need to think fast. He start with an eternity of time to do something before his opponent is able to make his first move.

It is fallacious to claim that he start out dead simply because he'll die at one point in his universe, since he's also alive at one point in his universe. When a character has both a living and a dead state, versus automaticly send out the living state of the character unless otherwise is stated. Since this thread specify that it's Nozdormu at his strongest, the Nozdormu fought is the one alive.

Where is this said then? and why would he have more time? the match starts when it starts, Nozmordu gets no extra time...

Who is at the same time, every Nozdormu in every time, including the dead one. So technically, he also starts off dead.

Can Noz not simply travel back in time?

BFR isn't it?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Where is this said then? and why would he have more time? the match starts when it starts, Nozmordu gets no extra time...

Who is at the same time, every Nozdormu in every time, including the dead one. So technically, he also starts off dead.

He has more time, because time is all he is. When you see a field of battle, he see a clock standing still. A clock awaiting his bending. Nozdormu is nothing more than a part of the time flow. He doesn't exist at any one time or place, but in every time at every place. The reason why he will beat anyone in a battle, is because he can prevent something from happening by knowing it happens.

The reason Nozdormu will win this battle before it even begun, is because Nozdormu exist at more places than one at any one time. Because this enemy can at most defeat Nozdormu as he is in the current and not the Nozdormu that exist yesterday, he is unable to actually defeat Nozdormu because Nozdormu knew what happened and froze time before it did.

I know it is hard to comprehend the nature of a multi-present ultimate master of time in combat, but you should at least try. Presenting a bunch of fallacies is not the way to go in life. I hope you realize that one day.


But I would love to hear why the Nozdormu fought here is the ONE dead Nozdormu and not one of the billion living ones. What is it about the dead Nozdormu that make him the default form in a versus debate?

Originally posted by LLLLLink
BFR isn't it?

No. But he could BFR his enemy if he wanted to.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
The reason why he will beat anyone in a battle, is because he can prevent something from happening by knowing it happens.

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by "anyone"?

Anyone he beats, he beats for that reason.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He has more time, because time is all he is. When you see a field of battle, he see a clock standing still. A clock awaiting his bending. Nozdormu is nothing more than a part of the time flow. He doesn't exist at any one time or place, but in every time at every place. The reason why he will beat anyone in a battle, is because he can prevent something from happening by knowing it happens.

The reason Nozdormu will win this battle before it even begun, is because Nozdormu exist at more places than one at any one time. Because this enemy can at most defeat Nozdormu as he is in the current and not the Nozdormu that exist yesterday, he is unable to actually defeat Nozdormu because Nozdormu knew what happened and froze time before it did.

I know it is hard to comprehend the nature of a multi-present ultimate master of time in combat, but you should at least try. Presenting a bunch of fallacies is not the way to go in life. I hope you realize that one day.


But I would love to hear why the Nozdormu fought here is the ONE dead Nozdormu and not one of the billion living ones. What is it about the dead Nozdormu that make him the default form in a versus debate?



No. But he could BFR his enemy if he wanted to.

Every Nozdormu is the default in a vs debate, that means that he can do nothing but draw unfortunatley. If you want to play the card of "Noz is in all time flows" then yes, but also the one where he is dead. Therefore the best he can get is a draw assuming he defeated his enemy.

False. Because Nozdormu has interacted with people despite his imminent death, he can interact here. Because Nozdormu has killed people before, he can kill people here. Claiming he can not, is going against the fact that he has actual feats of both killing and being. You are just trying to use a twisted version of him, one that in lore does not exist.

If versus were as you say it will be, Nozdormu would not have killed that orc in War of the Ancients. In fact, War of the Ancients would not have happened, because Nozdormu would not have been able to interact in it and the Old Gods would've wiped out reality.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
False. Because Nozdormu has interacted with people despite his imminent death, he can interact here. Because Nozdormu has killed people before, he can kill people here. Claiming he can not, is going against the fact that he has actual feats of both killing and being. You are just trying to use a twisted version of him, one that in lore does not exist.

If versus were as you say it will be, Nozdormu would not have killed that orc in War of the Ancients. In fact, War of the Ancients would not have happened, because Nozdormu would not have been able to interact in it and the Old Gods would've wiped out reality.


It exists because as you said he exists in all times, including one where he does eventually die. Simple fact I am afraid, he can interact with whom he wants, but he is still dead. The first one to die in a thread, or be defeated is the loser, that is Nozdormu in every thread.

Yes he would have, because at least one of his temporal forms are alive. Thing is one is also dead.

So you're saying that your logic > Solid feats.

No, that must be your poor reading skills that lead you to that conclusion. I never said anything of the sorts my dear, try glasses perhaps? they are quite cheap now days I hear.

Also "solid"? if you had shown evidence of Nozdormu being capable of some of these things then they would be solid here.

Actually, seein' as Noz' death hasn't happened yet... What you're trying to use is irrelevant, BT. GJ.

Its happened for him. If he is indeed omnipresent throughout his own timelines.

Reported for trolling/baiting.

Anyhow, Nozdormu EXIST. He has multiple appearances where he is very much alive. Just because he in a distant future will be dead, doesn't mean he will be here. Especially because he has PARTICIPATED in elaborate battles. The only way your logic make sense, is if you ignore his appearances.

Oh no I am not ignoring anything, its just as soon as his living form appears here, his dead form is still within his "present" even if its not for the battles. Unless he is cut off from all his other "selves", in which case the idea of him being connected to all his timelines are irrelevent.

I don't think I ever want to participate in a Nozdormu thread. I think an essential circumstance here is that Nozdormu is never vulnerable. Not at the start of the fight, not after a movement, not ever.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Oh no I am not ignoring anything, its just as soon as his living form appears here, his dead form is still within his "present" even if its not for the battles. Unless he is cut off from all his other "selves", in which case the idea of him being connected to all his timelines are irrelevent.

By your logic, all characters that aren't immortal have lost the fight as soon as it starts. You'll say no, because not all exist in all times, but that's wrong. Everyone existed in the past and everyone will exist until the day we die. The only difference is that Nozdormu is aware.

The fact that he can control his forms in different times is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It exists because as you said he exists in all times, including one where he does eventually die. Simple fact I am afraid, he can interact with whom he wants, but he is still dead. The first one to die in a thread, or be defeated is the loser, that is Nozdormu in every thread.

Yes he would have, because at least one of his temporal forms are alive. Thing is one is also dead.

Going by this logic, Kain, aswell as every other undead in VG, loses automatically, as they are technically dead.

Good job.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
The reason why he will beat anyone in a battle, is because he can prevent something from happening by knowing it happens.

A bit extravagated imo.

Nozdormu does not waste time holding back I love the irony in his nature. For being an entity with all the time in the world, he is in a constant hurry. Always busy.

Akatosh has not one real feat other than being the leader of the Aedra.

That alone cannot give him the win.

The only well known god that comes to mind in the ES verse that can definately defeat Nozdormu is Sithis, and that would be a spite thread.

Sithis is mad awesome.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Nozdormu does not waste time holding back I love the irony in his nature. For being an entity with all the time in the world, he is in a constant hurry. Always busy.

hehe true, I also think it has something to do with the Titans "gift" he knows that no matter how he spins it, he will die. His time to accomplishe all the things he see himself accomplishe is "limited" hence he is in a hurry or something

Agreed with NemeBro Sithis is stomp though.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
By your logic, all characters that aren't immortal have lost the fight as soon as it starts. You'll say no, because not all exist in all times, but that's wrong. Everyone existed in the past and everyone will exist until the day we die. The only difference is that Nozdormu is aware.

The fact that he can control his forms in different times is irrelevant.

No thats by logic and yes, I will say no because assuming a character will "die" in the future in some way, shape or form is irrelevent when their opponent Nozmordu is dead now at least to his perception. Their ignorence of his predicament is irrelevent since he is still dead.

No, Nozdormu is dead in the future. If he was dead now, he wouldn't have been able to make an appearance in War of the Ancients and Day of the Dragon.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
No, Nozdormu is dead in the future. If he was dead now, he wouldn't have been able to make an appearance in War of the Ancients and Day of the Dragon.

So your saying Nozdormu is not present to himself throughout all of time? so much for the omnipresence throughout time thing then, seems I was lied to.

Don't twist words. It makes you look bad, since it's generally a last desperate action.

Yeh and whining about "desperation" and "looking bad" is desperate in itself. If you cannot answer a point then dont try and copout like that, just say you cant argue your position and concede.

Impressive retort.

If my options are debating your logic and conceding, I concede.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Going by this logic, Kain, aswell as every other undead in VG, loses automatically, as they are technically dead.

Good job.

If we want to be technical, there's nothing logical about it.

Nah, we must use BT Logic. That way, Kain can never win.

Thats not true, kain is not fully dead. Nozdormu in his omnipresence throughout his own time is dead.

We have seen Nozdormu active and alive, so by that definition, neither is Nozdormu. Nozdormu has full control of which self to bring to battle. Just because a dead self exist, doesn't mean it'll be active in this battle. Because there are multiple Nozdormu, it is fallacious to say that the dead one is the default one in a versus thread.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not true, kain is not fully dead. Nozdormu in his omnipresence throughout his own time is dead.

No, he is undead. He is not alive. He is technically dead.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
We have seen Nozdormu active and alive, so by that definition, neither is Nozdormu. Nozdormu has full control of which self to bring to battle. Just because a dead self exist, doesn't mean it'll be active in this battle. Because there are multiple Nozdormu, it is fallacious to say that the dead one is the default one in a versus thread.

Every Nozdormu because of his "unique" power is the default one in a vs thread. Unlike most vs characters, Noz is present in all his timelines at once. There are not "multiple" Nozdormus, because apprently he is all of them, and they are all him.



Originally posted by FinalAnswer
No, he is undead. He is not alive. He is technically dead.

Your trying to argue/bait an irrelevant point. Nozdormu is "dead" in a sense Kain will never be.

K, BT, let's put this in a way you can understand:

future <--Noz dies here.
present <--You are here.
past

And heres why Nozdormu is dead in every thread hes made in:

Future <---Noz dies here<----Noz is here
Present <-----Noz is here
Past<------Noz is here

understand?

Future <---Noz dies here<----Noz is here <--You are here, and die here
Present <-----Noz is here <--debate is here <---you are here
Past<------Noz is here <---you are here

Also, we all exist in the past present, future, and alternate timelines, the key difference is Nozdormu shares one conciousness with all his selves.

Wait, so BT is using that Noz is conscious in all his time lines, and that he is dead in the future to say that, since he is dead, he automatically loses?

And what game is Akatosh from?

Elder Scrolls: Oblivion

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Future <---Noz dies here<----Noz is here <--You are here, and die here
Present <-----Noz is here <--debate is here <---you are here
Past<------Noz is here <---you are here

Also, we all exist in the past present, future, and alternate timelines, the key difference is Nozdormu shares one conciousness with all his selves.

hence why to his perception he is also dead. Noz is present at all times, and its fact he is dead in the future. Other characters are ambigious, especially immortal ones not that their relevent.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Wait, so BT is using that Noz is conscious in all his time lines, and that he is dead in the future to say that, since he is dead, he automatically loses?


Death is kinda the end of a thread, death, defeat or K.O that is.

Everyone else is telling you this, but there are a few serious problems with this.

1) By this logic, every other character in a thread automatically loses as they are dead in the future.
2) The only difference between Noz and every other character, is that Noz is aware of all his other selves and they share a consciousness. His dead self is obviously excluded, since it's dead.

I'm just going to leave it there since I've already contradicted myself by participating in this thread. Noz threads are a ridiculous train of logic.

Should we automatically disqualify characters that are dead in their respective universes?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Everyone else is telling you this, but there are a few serious problems with this.

1) By this logic, every other character in a thread automatically loses as they are dead in the future.
2) The only difference between Noz and every other character, is that Noz is aware of all his other selves and they share a consciousness. His dead self is obviously excluded, since it's dead.

I'm just going to leave it there since I've already contradicted myself by participating in this thread. Noz threads are a ridiculous train of logic.

1. Their not concious in all their forms throughout time however, and thats not true anyway.

2. excluded? not so, he is concious in all his forms, apart from the dead one but he still knows his death, that was part of what was supposed to humble him from Aman'thul.

Nozdormus future and past are also his present, technically there are no differences between them at least to his mind since their all his "present", even if their not anyone elses.

If your logic was correct, Nozdormu would not have been able to save the day in War of the Ancients.

Nozdormu wins.

/Thread

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
If your logic was correct, Nozdormu would not have been able to save the day in War of the Ancients.

Nozdormu wins.

/Thread

My logic would allow that to happen, so I am not sure what logic your looking at.

Originally posted by Burning thought
My logic would allow that to happen, so I am not sure what logic your looking at.

What part of your logic disallow Nozdormu from killing, when he has killed before?

The part where a KMC thread ends when someone is dead/defeated. Nozdormu is.

Not yet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The part where a KMC thread ends when someone is dead/defeated. Nozdormu is.

Not by this guys hands. YOu want to be technical? Here goes: Nozdormu dies by the hand of something in Azeroth.

True he does, but he is still dead. Technically he would have to be partly in Azeroth in this math, most of his "selves" are apart from the one in this thread.

Akataosh would not have to kill him.

You seriously can not see the fallacies in your post(s)?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
You seriously can not see the fallacies in your post(s)?

It seems not, you cannot seem to see your own so its not surprising. Apprently people cannot see the "fallacies" in their own posts.

Lets learn from our flaws then: You point out my fallacies and I point out yours. A win-win deal.

Fair enough, i think your flaw in your logic is assuming choosing a Nozdormu, preferably the strongest version in a vs like we do with most characters is the same as those characters but as you have pointed out, all Nozdormus are the same, their all the same being. If you want to choose the strongest Noz and suggest cutting him off from all his other selves then ok, thats fine, we should ask the thread starters to do so but otherwise....

He is dead, simple fact. Unlike most characters his last showing, his death is at least to his perception his "present" as well. Nozdormu is officially dead as soon as he enters a thread, because regardless of how healthy and active he is in his other "selves", their irrelevent since his most current, his most present etc etc are also dead. Argueing "Noz in another period of time did thus" is fine in the Warcraft universe, but in this thread if he is connected to all his other selves, he is also dead. Dieing is also his last showing, but unlike other characters, he is also alive. He is both dead and alive, but if we take his most recent which is his death, like we do with most characters he is overall dead, even he is alive. Hard to explain but there it is.

Where are my fallacies? I don't see any. You were supposed to point them out, not repeat the same thing you've said the entire thread.

The first paragraph points out why your logic fails. If you cannot see it even if I point them out then theres no point in trying.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your trying to argue/bait an irrelevant point. Nozdormu is "dead" in a sense Kain will never be.

O RLY?

Kain's body is biologically dead, correct?

Kain's heart is gone, and he is essentially possessing nothing more then a dead body, correct?

Kain's "true self" is nothing more then his spirit and conscience, correct?

Kain is dead, that's all there is to it.

Though your point is moot. The normal objective of a match is to make the opponent unable to fight, not to necessarily kill the opponent. Nozdormu, even if he is dead, would still be capable of defeating his opponent.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The first paragraph points out why your logic fails. If you cannot see it even if I point them out then theres no point in trying.

You don't know what a fallacy is, do you?

Something has just occurred to me.

Akatosh is immortal, truly immortal, all of the Aedra and Daedra are, they cannot die.

Akatosh still cannot kill Nozdormu, but Noz cannot kill him.

Sounds like a No-Limit fallacy to me.

Nozdormu for the record is also immortal.

I actually don't. So you can explain it to me if you wish, since I'm far too lazy to dictionary.com it.

Edit: That was @ the fallacy thing.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
You don't know what a fallacy is, do you?

Its a failure of logic, I dont think you know what a fallacy is however, are you assuming its just a specific failure of logic such as the "no limit" or "appeal to audiance" fallacies? think again.

Your false idea as it were, a fallacy it is.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Sounds like a No-Limit fallacy to me.

Nozdormu for the record is also immortal. Aedra and Daedra have fought and been bested numerous times, when the avatar of Akatosh fought Mehrunes Dagon, Akatosh could not kill Dagon, and banished him back to Oblivion. It is also stated that only a true immortal can best Dagon.

It is not a matter of power, the Aedra shaped the universe, so Nozdormu certainly lacks the power to kill what Akatosh, the most powerful Aedra, could not.

Now that I think about it, the Aedra's shaping of the cosmos implies a state of existence outside of time, being as they would have created the concept. Will look into this.

Just because they could not it of, does not mean Nozdormu can't.

........ what?

Just because they could not kill him, does not mean Nozdormu can't.

How would he do so?

He has existed before time did, and the Daedra and Aedra are far more conventionally powerful than Nozdormu.

Hey Neme, what book is it in Oblivion that suggests Sithis created the Daedra and the Aedra?

Does not exist.

Most sources state Anu and Padomay created the Aedra and Daedra.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Does not exist.

Most sources state Anu and Padomay created the Aedra and Daedra.

Padomay is however if I recall correctly just another name Sithis is known under.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Does not exist.

Most sources state Anu and Padomay created the Aedra and Daedra.

Yeah, it does. It's a book called "Sithis", and I am looking at it right now on my Oblivion file.

Also, I read that "time" is under Akatosh's domain in ES. In the game, grants you blessings like shortening the time of travel on your journey, but hasn't displayed feats like Nozzy. Of couse, he exists outside of time, so....yeah....

"His avatar is a dragon. He is generally considered to be the first of the Gods to form in the Beginning Place; after his establishment, other spirits found the process of being easier and the various pantheons of the world emerged. He is the ultimate God of the Cyrodiilic Empire, where he embodies the qualities of endurance, invincibility, and everlasting legitimacy." - I found that on the official ES website.

Which is relative.

What level of damage output was used and proven inadequate?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Which is relative.

What level of damage output was used and proven inadequate?

In theory all Aedra and Daedra have made their very own pocket dimensions from their own power, that means that they atleast have reality warping powers extending to that of a small universe (if we take the most common form of pocket universe as valid), Akatosh was capable in a avatar (a Avatar is normally atleast in Elder Scrolls less powerful then the real deal) to banish Mehrunes Dagon, I'm not sure though if Dagon was also in his Avatar form. What does this leads to? Well I would put Akatosh based on what sources imply that he is around the same level as the Daedra which is around pocket universal.

I'm not a expert on Elder Scrolls lore and NemeBro has a greater interest and understanding of it then me, so I'm also waiting to hear what he says.

Which gives us conjuring and translocating powers. Neither give us the ability to estimate firepower.

The Avatar of Akatosh was merely a bit of the mystical blood of Akatosh in the Amulet of Kings that was given to St. Alessia by Akatosh. Martin broke it open upon himself, and since he was a Dragonborne, he bacame the Avatar.

Hence:

Akatosh blood
+
Dragonborne
=
Avatar of Akatosh.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Which gives us conjuring and translocating powers. Neither give us the ability to estimate firepower.

Actually it gives us quite a good idea on firepower in terms of reality warping, if you from nothing can create a entire realm and maintain it through nothing but your own energy, you are going to have something to dish out.

Not necessarily. Take Warcraft for example. The Council of Tirisfal created their own little realm, but they have not shown us any real firepower. Maybe Merryl, but he isn't part of the new one. The capability to create something differ from the capability to destroy something. It is two different schools, two different usages of magic.

I am not going to argue with you that a being who helped create the universe and all of its laws is more conventionally powerful than Nozdormu. Every Aedra and Daedra is able to shape the Cosmos, and the creation of a pocket dimension is a feat, though only the Daedra are particularly known for doing that.

Also, 5L is right, Akatosh exists outside of time, being the principal deity governing time and the one who created it, he is outside of Nozdormu's jurisdiction.

It is not a solid base to claim firepower. Creating something doesn't go hand in hand with being destructive.

Space is within Nozdormu's jurisdiction though. While he master time, it is not his only area of power. He is not powerless against beings from outside time (Infinite Dragonflight).

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
It is not a solid base to claim firepower. Creating something doesn't go hand in hand with being destructive.

Space is within Nozdormu's jurisdiction though. While he master time, it is not his only area of power. He is not powerless against beings from outside time (Infinite Dragonflight).

Creating normally requires more effort/energy then destroying though.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Not necessarily. Take Warcraft for example. The Council of Tirisfal created their own little realm, but they have not shown us any real firepower. Maybe Merryl, but he isn't part of the new one. The capability to create something differ from the capability to destroy something. It is two different schools, two different usages of magic.

The Council of Tirisfal that infuse a being with enough power to actually damage Sargeras avatar? Are those the mages we are talking about?

That was the old Council of Tirisfal, and those has shown firepower. Merryl blasted numerous opponents into pieces. Then again, Jaina is part of the new one, so my point just turned mute, with her one-shotting a Necropolis and stuff. Originally posted by Utrigita
Creating normally requires more effort/energy then destroying though. But a different type of energy.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
That was the old Council of Tirisfal, and those has shown firepower. Merryl blasted numerous opponents into pieces. Then again, Jaina is part of the new one, so my point just turned mute, with her one-shotting a Necropolis and stuff. But a different type of energy.

Isn't it lovely shooting down ones own arguments :P

True but to suggest that a guy that can use his energy in order to create can't use those same energy to atleast accomplish destruction on a similar scale to what he was creating is a bit thin imo.

"Create" and "Destroy" are merely two ways to manifest the same thing, which is power.

And power, peace and serenity are all three the same thing: Strength. Don't involve the twists and turns of the English language into this. It's a losing battle.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
And power, peace and serenity are all three the same thing: Strength. Don't involve the twists and turns of the English language into this. It's a losing battle.

You just did

No, I provided a sample of how pointless it is to try.

Lol, whatever you say...

My point, as you seem to fail at picking it up, is that once you start using the English language to win a debate, the debate is already lost. There is a twist and turn to everything. If you are well-read enough and you master the English language, truth becomes relative.

The language is irrelevant, only the meaning.
If you don't understand, I'll explain it for you.

The language make the meaning, that's what I've been trying to say.


QUICK! OVER THERE! LOOK! It's your buddy Omnipotence.

...I think everybody knew that.
I think we are trying to agree, but you got confused because you like me so much.

Omnipotence is at Ganondorf's house right now.

I'm confused because you contradict your intentions. You started playing with the words rather than the acts by the characters, then agree with my example of what not to do, only to shortly after share the fact that you have claimed all along that words can elude.

I'm confused about what you are confused about. The whole convo seemed pretty simple to me. I don't know where we lost you...

You said that Create and Destroy are both part of the same aspect: Power.

I said that so is Peace and Serenity, and then I got confused by your replies.

Did I deny your claim anywhere? I got confused when you got "offended".

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
It is not a solid base to claim firepower. Creating something doesn't go hand in hand with being destructive.

Space is within Nozdormu's jurisdiction though. While he master time, it is not his only area of power. He is not powerless against beings from outside time (Infinite Dragonflight). To create an entire universe, you must provide the necessary power to "mantain" said universe and create its laws, gravity is a universal force that they created for instance, and then there are more abstract concepts such as time which Akatosh is personally credited with. Several beings in fiction and nearly every "supreme being" are considered so powerful because of their creation feats, when they have not a destruction feat to their name. I'll use an example you are familiar with and that I am positive you have used, Arceus is considered to be the most powerful Pokemon ever, and all it has is a creation feat, the creation of the universe. You yourself have claimed Arceus is the most powerful and have used it in a few threads, therefore, clearly creation feats are viable to gauge a character's power.

Akatosh exists outside of both normal time and space, having created it and all. Akatosh, and every Aedra and Daedra actually, do not exist on the same plane of existence.

Most powerful doesn't mean most destructive. I'll concede this point or something, though. Don't feel up to the debate right now.

Okay.

Sorry if my posts seemed kinda hostile, was not my intention.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Most powerful doesn't mean most destructive. I'll concede this point or something, though. Don't feel up to the debate right now.

You are about to reach a fantastic turning point in your life. I can see it in the stars.

Don't be an idiot.

Q is correct certainly on this occassion. Creation does not=destruction unless the creator can create something that "causes" destruction.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Most powerful doesn't mean most destructive. I'll concede this point or something, though. Don't feel up to the debate right now.

Wasn't exactly the point I was trying to make, Terrax should in theory for instance be more powerful then Jesus Cable, yet I'm fairly sure that Jesus Cable has far more destrucive potential, so I agree entirely with you on that one.

Anyways as I said before it's probably stalemate.

You wouldn't say that the Infinite flight exist outside time and space?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
You wouldn't say that the Infinite flight exist outside time and space?

The Bronze flight fought them through time iirc, that could serve as a indicator of them being affected by the Bronze Dragons time manipulation, also if the speculation are true and the Infinite Dragonflight was made by Nozdormu in order to alter events he would rather that hadn't happen, I'm not entirely sure what to believe about them tbh.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Don't be an idiot.

Don't be hurt.

5L, behave yourself.

You can't name yourself Link and then go around bein' rude to the fair maidens and what not. It's out of character.

Edit: Go find some evil to smite. The forum is full of it.

Well, excuuuuuuuuuse me, Princess.

Yes, I can.