The Return of Kitty Pryde

willRules

Steve you need to read Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing X-men (something like the first 25 issues.) It's brilliant.

Originally posted by Entity
How is she still alive with a lack of food water or oxygen as long as she's been trapped in space?

I have no idea the circumstances thou, I didn't read the events, so there could be some explanation that I'm jus totally unaware of. Jus asking.

It could be due to the nature of Kitty's phase abilities. She doesn't need air when she phases, and she obviously cannot eat or drink, it would pass straight through her.

Waaaaaaay back during the Morlock Massacre, she was attacked by the Mutant Harpoon which left her in a state of what appeared to be permanently phased, until she was later healed. She was like a ghost at the time and obviously couldn't do anything we'd associate with survival (eg. eating, drinking etc etc).

steverules_2

Yeah I guess so

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by steverules_2
And instead it passed through and now its somewhere really far off into space and now mags has found it and is bringing it back to earth so she can be taken out of it or...whatever

Yeah, exactly. Really impressive feat for "weakened" Magneto. I guess Fraction will ignore the fact that she fused with it and just take her out of it, yeah...

"Wolverine! Cut that thing open!"

"Already done, bub."

steverules_2

Most things are ignored in comics, it gets pretty confusing

Entity

Originally posted by willRules
Steve you need to read Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing X-men (something like the first 25 issues.) It's brilliant.

It could be due to the nature of Kitty's phase abilities. She doesn't need air when she phases, and she obviously cannot eat or drink, it would pass straight through her.

Waaaaaaay back during the Morlock Massacre, she was attacked by the Mutant Harpoon which left her in a state of what appeared to be permanently phased, until she was later healed. She was like a ghost at the time and obviously couldn't do anything we'd associate with survival (eg. eating, drinking etc etc). Ahh well I see. Never new that thou and I thought she couldn't maintain a phase forever. I seem to remember a comic where sabretooth jus kept slashing at her till she wore down n had to unphase.

Oh well seems pretty stupid that she can still live without any type of substance to keep her going but it is a comic and they do stupid unexplainable shit all the time. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Disappear

there were only ever 25 issues of whedon's astonishing, technically. it was in the giant-sized astonishing x-men that the afore-mentioned events occurred, though it was the penultimate event of the series to that point. everything had been, essentially, building to that point. very, very good issue, giant-sized was.

i just feel like, and maybe it's me, but it hasn't been long enough for me to care that much? i mean, when i read that issue of legacy, i was internally clapping and whatnot. but it just doesnt seem as big or cool as it should be, i guess. maybe if legacy had a release schedule like astonishing did, and it took four years for us to get this issue, i'd like it more. right now, i just kind of feel like it's tainting my opinion of giant-sized astonishing. no fault of fraction's, of course, but it's not as cool that kitty did what she did if she's getting brought back so quick.

Konton

Well the longer the wait, the less likely it would be for Magneto to be able to bring her back.

I foresee Magneto's motives and Kitty's return being pretty big in the X-Men's future as a whole. The Emma/Kitty dynamic is bound to lose it's luster though because of their reconciliation and understanding during Kitty's departure.

Martian_mind

.................

Magneto's a ****ing tank.

roughrider

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
thats awesome

That is a great twist! thumb up

srankmissingnin

This bullet has been traveling through space for like two years, at many times the speed of light... and Magneto is going to locate its position, exert control on it, stop it, turn it around, and get it back to earth... in less than a month. blink

steverules_2

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This bullet has been traveling through space for like two years, at many times the speed of light... and Magneto is going to locate its position, exert control on it, stop it, turn it around, and get it back to earth... in less than a month. blink

Thats cuz he's magento

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by steverules_2
Thats cuz he's magento

He can apparently accelerate items to such a speed that it makes the Flash look like a paraplegic! Magneto now officially wins every forum battle by a shield + explosive shrapnel traveling at thousands of times the speed of light, combo. smile

Superherovandal

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He can apparently accelerate items to such a speed that it makes the Flash look like a paraplegic! Magneto now officially wins every forum battle by a shield + explosive shrapnel traveling at thousands of times the speed of light, combo. smile

was it travelling at c??

-K-M-

Some extra context for the Magneto feat:

Q. 1) I'm a little bit confused. Magneto can't keep Utopia floating, yet he can allegedly grab a massive bullet light years away that gets more dense as it flies through the depths of space. This is a bullet that has been travelling in space since before 'Messiah CompleX,' which was almost two years ago. Reed Richards and Tony Stark couldn't figure out a solution, but this option was available? It seems...sketchy.

A. Well, I think you've misread the book a little bit and you're making some presumptions; let me see if I can get your suspension of disbelief back on track some. As was stated in the scene with the X-club, he could, theoretically, keep it floating, but only if that's all he does all the time. The power drain is constant and to counter it, he'd have to constantly be recharging the batteries, as it were. But he needs to eat, sleep, and do something that isn't just crank his power to ten 24-7. So it's not a can't, it's more of a shouldn't, or couldn't for very long. It'd be fruitless and ultimately just exhaust him.

And Magneto knew where the bullet was; he'd seen it; he knew where to look. And the power-rebooting process he underwent in space augmented him with a depth of ability he'd lacked for a long time. That it happened close to where Kitty passed, that his magnetic awareness, as it were, was revitalized close to her...I mean, that might have had something to do with it.

Mags had it all over Reed and Tony in this case; but if you don't buy that the old man (who used to be an even older man but then wasn't and was good, then evil, then good, then dead, then alive, then dead, then alive but in space and can control magnetism) can bring back a giant, airless, foodless and waterless (Seriously! I should've asked Joss when I had him on the phone - WHAT HAS KITTY BEEN EATING!?!) hollow ghost bullet containing a ghostly girl from deep space, but the man who can stretch his body like silly putty (that got his powers by stealing a rocket and going into near-earth orbit with his college buddy, girlfriend, and her brother) and the billionaire with the billion dollar suit of armor (that used to have transistors and magnets in his chest after stepping on a Vietcong landmine, was then a teenager, then an adult, then infused with a living techbridge that tied him to his armor, then erased his entire brain) couldn't find her...well, when you put it like that, it's a fair cop. Admittedly, when the issue is framed in those terms, I have trouble buying it too.

In all seriousness, though, you're assuming that Magneto is going to hop up and skip and dance if he successfully brings Kitty home. There's no value in what Magneto's doing if it isn't a sacrifice for him to do. If it was easy, it'd be an empty gesture. This is not easy. This comes with a price. Keep reading.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24962

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by Superherovandal
was it travelling at c??

It was shot form a planet outside our solar system and got to earth in less than an hour.

nikbackm

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It was shot form a planet outside our solar system and got to earth in less than an hour.

Since it was an object with mass without exotic propulsion systems (warpdrive etc.) it couldn't possibly have travelled with the speed of light (c) or faster. That's impossible.

The only reasonable explanation is that it was shot through some kind of stargate. In this case it need not have travelled that far from Earth after Kitty phased it. Still an impossible feat by Magneto I think.

There is of course always the magic component of the bullet to mix things up.

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by nikbackm
Since it was an object with mass without exotic propulsion systems (warpdrive etc.) it couldn't possibly have travelled with the speed of light (c) or faster. That's impossible.

The only reasonable explanation is that it was shot through some kind of stargate. In this case it need not have travelled that far from Earth after Kitty phased it. Still an impossible feat by Magneto I think.

There is of course always the magic component of the bullet to mix things up.

The X-Men followed it thought in a ship. Well you kind of said it at the end but to reiterate, the bullet is magical. Wonder why its magical defences didn't work on him? Maybe it had something to do with his motive while in AXM everyone was kind of doing it for pride.

Survivor19

Because defences only work when one tries to put the bullet OFF course.
Magneto is retargeting it at Earth eek!

psi-aura

Originally posted by Survivor19
Magneto is retargeting it at Earth eek!

That can not be good.

steverules_2

I doubt he's gonna try and destory earth

srankmissingnin

Originally posted by steverules_2
I doubt he's gonna try and destory earth

If he was going to I bet he'd do something simpler and less time consuming, like halt the earth's rotation and fling everyone and everything into space, or take down the magnetic field that shields the earth from the suns radiation and fry everyone. cool

steverules_2

If he wanted to he could, his magnetic shield would be able to keep him safe as well

HueyFreeman

So let me get this straight. The whole time Kitty was in that bullet she has been consciously aware? So shes been alone in space for two years and not in the least bit mentally broken?

Original Smurph

How do we have any idea of Kitty's mental state yet?

We've seen like one panel of her.

SamZED

She's been there for 2 years? That sucks.

-K-M-

Originally posted by Original Smurph
How do we have any idea of Kitty's mental state yet?

We've seen like one panel of her.

Yeah, but it was a big panel wink

steverules_2

ODST > Uncharted 2 shifty

TheTyrant

God, not this crappy character again.

Disappear

i assume given that the x-men were able to "bounce a message off the peak," even while trailing the bullet, means the bullet wasn't near enough to lightspeed for the message to be useless. the heroes of the earth did manage to at least gather in one place before the bullet hit, and were briefed well enough on the situation to have vivid hallucinations of solving the problem.

psi-aura

I have a rough idea on how magneto will stop the bullet. this kind of comes out the same time as second coming, right? so some kind of incredible telekinetic surge reduces the bullet to dust, leaving kitty unharmed, then they find out in a few issues that it was... JEAN GREY BACK FROM THE WHITE HOT ROOM!!! yeah, nobody wastes their breath to gasp, it's so obvious. sleep

Konton

Originally posted by TheTyrant
God, not this crappy character again.

She's as witty as Emma, trained by Ogun, has dynamic relationships with her teammates and Colossus. She has one of the more unique powersets of any mutant. She has a dragon. Crappy? =|

willRules

Originally posted by Konton
She's as witty as Emma, trained by Ogun, has dynamic relationships with her teammates and Colossus. She has one of the more unique powersets of any mutant. She has a dragon. Crappy? =|

She is one of the most interesting and inspired characters of the modern comic book age yes

psi-aura

i want to see emma's reaction. that should be good.

-K-M-

Still not sure what Magneto did to the bullet with the pink energy...wormhole?

Also Jeffries is becoming an uber scientist.

iceman24567

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by iceman24567
Kitty is a second rate X-Man erm

I don't know after Whedon got through with her., I kind of like her better then Storm and Rogue.

Kitty Pryde has always been psycho and a pottymouth...

http://blog.doesstuff.com/archives/215

http://amagnificentbastard.blogspot.com/2008/05/does-kitty-pryde-need-her-mouth-washed.html

iceman24567

Whedon can do wonders i love whenever he does Astonishing well almost

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by iceman24567
Whedon can do wonders i love whenever he does Astonishing well almost

I suppose Morrison had a hand in it to. Scott, Beast and Emma have been the focus since Morrison elevated their status. Emma more so then the other two.

iceman24567

Well Whedon has a thing for female characters erm

Omega Vision

Originally posted by iceman24567
Well Whedon has a thing for female characters erm

He's pretty much admitted that he's incapable of writing anything without at least one spunky, young, and attractive female cast member.

iceman24567

I would expect nothing less from the nerd tbh

willRules

Originally posted by iceman24567
Kitty is a second rate X-Man erm

She hasn't been second rate since 1982.

Here's a list of reasons why Kitty is awesome....and this list only goes up to Whedon's first issue of Astonishing....

http://uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=72&page=7

AsbestosFlaygon

What a piece of shit.

Would've been better if Marvel left her dead for good.

willRules

Granted, she's not as cool as the pokemon in your sig (or is that Yu-Gi-Oh? I don't know, all that crap looks the same to me!)

AsbestosFlaygon

It's Arceus ahah

And don't ever compare Pokeymanz to that worthless card playing anime shit.

psi-aura

Well said, asbestos, well said. I myself am not only obsessed about comics, but also a Pokemon freak. GO CHARIZARDS!

http://www.ps-games.nl/images/content/006_Charizard.gif

(can I help myself?)

Blanket

Originally posted by -K-M-
Some extra context for the Magneto feat:

Q. 1) I'm a little bit confused. Magneto can't keep Utopia floating, yet he can allegedly grab a massive bullet light years away that gets more dense as it flies through the depths of space. This is a bullet that has been travelling in space since before 'Messiah CompleX,' which was almost two years ago. Reed Richards and Tony Stark couldn't figure out a solution, but this option was available? It seems...sketchy.

A. Well, I think you've misread the book a little bit and you're making some presumptions; let me see if I can get your suspension of disbelief back on track some. As was stated in the scene with the X-club, he could, theoretically, keep it floating, but only if that's all he does all the time. The power drain is constant and to counter it, he'd have to constantly be recharging the batteries, as it were. But he needs to eat, sleep, and do something that isn't just crank his power to ten 24-7. So it's not a can't, it's more of a shouldn't, or couldn't for very long. It'd be fruitless and ultimately just exhaust him.

And Magneto knew where the bullet was; he'd seen it; he knew where to look. And the power-rebooting process he underwent in space augmented him with a depth of ability he'd lacked for a long time. That it happened close to where Kitty passed, that his magnetic awareness, as it were, was revitalized close to her...I mean, that might have had something to do with it.

Mags had it all over Reed and Tony in this case; but if you don't buy that the old man (who used to be an even older man but then wasn't and was good, then evil, then good, then dead, then alive, then dead, then alive but in space and can control magnetism) can bring back a giant, airless, foodless and waterless (Seriously! I should've asked Joss when I had him on the phone - WHAT HAS KITTY BEEN EATING!?!) hollow ghost bullet containing a ghostly girl from deep space, but the man who can stretch his body like silly putty (that got his powers by stealing a rocket and going into near-earth orbit with his college buddy, girlfriend, and her brother) and the billionaire with the billion dollar suit of armor (that used to have transistors and magnets in his chest after stepping on a Vietcong landmine, was then a teenager, then an adult, then infused with a living techbridge that tied him to his armor, then erased his entire brain) couldn't find her...well, when you put it like that, it's a fair cop. Admittedly, when the issue is framed in those terms, I have trouble buying it too.

In all seriousness, though, you're assuming that Magneto is going to hop up and skip and dance if he successfully brings Kitty home. There's no value in what Magneto's doing if it isn't a sacrifice for him to do. If it was easy, it'd be an empty gesture. This is not easy. This comes with a price. Keep reading.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24962 That doesn't explain at all why he was able to do it. That actually farther states why he shouldn't be able to do it...

Under this writing of course. smile

ExodusCloak

The feat is pretty impressive which ever way you look at it. The explantation was basically that he memorised the scent of Fe in Kitty's blood (Even though she was phased) when it passed him and that's how he kept tabs on it. He then pulled her rather then then the bullet to Earth at a speed close to light from solar systems away. Then he either dumped the bullet in a wormhole or disintegrated it.

psi-aura

That price is probably just him going catatonic. Or maybe, (this has just occured to me) unless those second coming posters were just for effect, Magneto is the one who dies.

Philosoph�a

He is shown fighting Nimrod in a variant cover of one of the upcoming X-Men Legacy issue, in an injured (depowered?) state.

It'll likely be a rehash of the old 'Magneto burned himself out' storyline from Magneto: Rex era.

The Pict

Originally posted by iceman24567
Kitty is a second rate X-Man erm

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
What a piece of shit.

Would've been better if Marvel left her dead for good.

shakefist

Konton

I hope Kitty isn't stuck phased again. =|

Battlehammer

Originally posted by iceman24567
Whedon can do wonders i love whenever he does Astonishing well almost
yea except the fact he ignores long standing character realationships and openly admits he has no idea how to write certain characters (that part I respect that he admitts it).

I think he extremely overrated and thought astonishing x-men was overrated.

psi-aura

Overrated and terribly drawn.

-Pr-

Original Smurph

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yea except the fact he ignores long standing character realationships and openly admits he has no idea how to write certain characters (that part I respect that he admitts it).

I think he extremely overrated and thought astonishing x-men was overrated. I think he did a good job of keeping focus on exactly what and who he knew how to write, and keeping that that he was less sure about in the background.

And, to be honest, it doesn't bother me too much that he ignored or downplayed character relationships, as the relationships that he chose to write were handled damn near perfectly, IMO. I'd rather have something that I enjoy reading over something that is of a lesser quality because it's strict about sticking to previous authors' works.

I understand the other point of view, but I don't endorse it.

-K-M-

Who cares about Magneto vs. Nimrod. Jeffries would make a robotic cap that says "Handy" out of Nimrod...get it? get it? Im hillarious.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by -Pr-
he wrote emma-scott and peter-kitty perfectly, imo.
Yea but he wrote wolverine-kitty awful, and wolverine-colossus was not much better. actually wolverine anyone was written akward and wrong. In hind sight he probably should have left him off the team along with armor and replaced them with NC.

But marvel and there ticket sales needed there mutant poster boy, which hurt to read, the kitty-wolverine annoyed me to no end........

also what the hell was the point of armor anyways she a pretty shitty character.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I think he did a good job of keeping focus on exactly what and who he knew how to write, and keeping that that he was less sure about in the background.

And, to be honest, it doesn't bother me too much that he ignored or downplayed character relationships, as the relationships that he chose to write were handled damn near perfectly, IMO. I'd rather have something that I enjoy reading over something that is of a lesser quality because it's strict about sticking to previous authors' works.

I understand the other point of view, but I don't endorse it.
I agree a lot with that, you are right he kept to what he new as the focus.

true he did do a very good job with certain relationships. wolverine-kitty annoyed me a lot becuase of how poorly it was handle by simply being ignored for the most part.

I just wish marvel did not force him to put certain characters on the team he was no comfortable with. Which in hind sight was not really his fault at all. I also thought armor was a stupid character who more or less was used a a sort of crutch in my opinion.

also thought the art work was meh, and that villains who were so utterly dangerous one arc were no threat at all in the next. danger and orb for one were team wreckers in the first few apearences, but then more or less were nothing a single x-men could no deal with the next arcs. DBZ syndrum.

also did wheldon do the story about all the different realities. I still don't get that arc at all.

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Yea but he wrote wolverine-kitty awful, and wolverine-colossus was not much better. actually wolverine anyone was written akward and wrong. In hind sight he probably should have left him off the team along with armor and replaced them with NC.

But marvel and there ticket sales needed there mutant poster boy, which hurt to read, the kitty-wolverine annoyed me to no end........

also what the hell was the point of armor anyways she a pretty shitty character.

What was wrong with the Wolverine-Kitty thing? His grieving?

Originally posted by Battlehammer

also did wheldon do the story about all the different realities. I still don't get that arc at all.

That's Ellis.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
What was wrong with the Wolverine-Kitty thing? His grieving?
everything, they barely spoke to one another when she died he seemed to barly care and take it less hard then friggin emma did.

it was absurdly out of character. The last time he thought kitty died he tried and kill mr. fantastic..

Battlehammer

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

That's Ellis.
good, becuase that was utter crap that i still dont get what the point even was.

-K-M-

Heh! I loved how Wolverine reacted when Alpha Flight was killed.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by -K-M-
Heh! I loved how Wolverine reacted when Alpha Flight was killed.
I can't remember what he said, refreshing my memory please.

is that when he threaten to kill that guy or something?

-K-M-

He didn't say or do anything...stupid writers.

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Battlehammer
everything, they barely spoke to one another when she died he seemed to barly care and take it less hard then friggin emma did.

it was absurdly out of character. The last time he thought kitty died he tried and kill mr. fantastic..

Did he express any grief in any of the anthologies like Karma, Kurt and Colossus? I think he might have just can't remember.

I think this time around, Kitty was a hero. She saved the everyone on Earth. So the beer scene kind of fitting, especially since it played such a big part in Whedons run. It was his way of trying to drink away his guilt.

The Emma Frost thing was understandable. Emma is the one who brought Kitty back to the X-Men. So it's her fault...add onto that, that Whedon broke her down and never put her back together again and you get that wreck at the end of AXM, in Dark Reign and Fractemma.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Did he express any grief in any of the anthologies like Karma, Kurt and Colossus? I think he might have just can't remember.

I think this time around, Kitty was a hero. She saved the everyone on Earth. So the beer scene kind of fitting, especially since it played such a big part in Whedons run.

The Emma Frost thing was understandable. Emma is the one who brought Kitty back to the X-Men. So it's her fault...add onto that, that Whedon broke her down and never put her back together again and you get that wreck at the end of AXM, in Dark Reign and Fractemma.
If he did it was minimal. It does not make senses. He closer to her by far then karma or kurt. Hell in many ways he closer to her then colossus is. There realationship was very badly depicted by wheldon. She died a hero last time to (wolverien thought she died) and he almsot killed another hero. It makes zero senses that he would take it so easily. Hell every single time which has been at least twice were he thought kitty died he flipp his shit, hell he let him self almost be killed simply for the chance to save her life before. Wheldon handle his griefing of her death and over all interaction between the two extremely bad. If wolverine was written in character he would have flipp his shit for them leaving kitty behind there no way he be cool with it. I mean it was just bad.

emma grieving more then wolverine who thought of kitty as pretty much a daughtert is not understandable. It shitty characterization by wheldon. He did a good job of explaining emma griefing and characters he understands, but as smurf pointed out characters he less sure off he leaves in the back round which is what he did during a time when the character should have been front in center. Two people kitty is closest with out of every x-men is wolverine and colossus (she been closer to wolverine for longer). yet wolverine was ignored pretty much during her death and after effects. I actually thought uncanny x-men handle the event much better and it took place like 3 months after her death.

if that came out as agressive it did not mean to be.

also his interactions with pete after kitty death were bad as well, it one of his best friends who love of his life just died and who he has no seen in like years and he has like nothing to say to him? it like really now?

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Battlehammer
If he did it was minimal. It does not make senses. He closer to her by far then karma or kurt. Hell in many ways he closer to her then colossus is. There realationship was very badly depicted by wheldon. She died a hero last time to (wolverien thought she died) and he almsot killed another hero. It makes zero senses that he would take it so easily. Hell every single time which has been at least twice were he thought kitty died he flipp his shit, hell he let him self almost be killed simply for the chance to save her life before. Wheldon handle his griefing of her death and over all interaction between the two extremely bad. If wolverine was written in character he would have flipp his shit for them leaving kitty behind there no way he be cool with it. I mean it was just bad.

emma grieving more then wolverine who thought of kitty as pretty much a daughtert is not understandable. It shitty characterization by wheldon. He did a good job of explaining emma griefing and characters he understands, but as smurf pointed out characters he less sure off he leaves in the back round which is what he did during a time when the character should have been front in center. Two people kitty is closest with out of every x-men is wolverine and colossus (she been closer to wolverine for longer). yet wolverine was ignored pretty much during her death and after effects. I actually thought uncanny x-men handle the event much better and it took place like 3 months after her death.

if that came out as agressive it did not mean to be.

also his interactions with pete after kitty death were bad as well, it one of his best friends who love of his life just died and who he has no seen in like years and he has like nothing to say to him? it like really now?

I wouldn't say Emma grieved more then Wolverine. I'd say it was more down to her finally cracking. She was on the verge of breaking ever since the Bus attack. This was just the tipping point. Wolverine had his own way of grieving, Kitty died as an X-Men and as a grown up, she was no longer this little girl that he needed to protect, but at the end of the day he still thought of her as that. That is why he felt so guilty because it ended up being her at the end of the day.

It really wouldn't make sense for Wolverine to go berzerker at the end of the story IMHO. The thing with Armor just seemed like nice nod to every other sidekick he has ever had. I also think the way he did it made it more poignant.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by Battlehammer
good, becuase that was utter crap that i still dont get what the point even was.

He still writes better Wolverine than Whedon. Although he screwed up with the "healing factor = pain reduction" part.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
everything, they barely spoke to one another when she died he seemed to barly care and take it less hard then friggin emma did.

it was absurdly out of character. The last time he thought kitty died he tried and kill mr. fantastic..

They had a conversation in 1st ish IIRC. That's all.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He still writes better Wolverine than Whedon. Although he screwed up with the "healing factor = pain reduction" part.

They had a conversation in 1st ish IIRC. That's all.
yea I agree, though I though the wheldon over all writing was a lot better.

yea wasent the line like what you gunna fight me next or something. it was like really thats all you have wolverine say to kitty who he has not seen in months lol.

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Battlehammer

yea wasent the line like what you gunna fight me next or something. it was like really thats all you have wolverine say to kitty who he has not seen in months lol.

There were a few lines, I'd rather have you watching my back...or something a long those lines.

Then they spoke in Torn but that wasn't really Wolverine.

I do remember Whedon saying that he didn't want Wolverine though. That's probably why he kept him in the background for the most part.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I wouldn't say Emma grieved more then Wolverine. I'd say it was more down to her finally cracking. She was on the verge of breaking ever since the Bus attack. This was just the tipping point. Wolverine had his own way of grieving, Kitty died as an X-Men and as a grown up, she was no longer this little girl that he needed to protect, but at the end of the day he still thought of her as that. That is why he felt so guilty because it ended up being her at the end of the day.

He barly even griefed he did not even care it seemed and other x-men with literrally nothing closes to the realationship he had with her were shown to grief far far more.

it was handle bad, why are you even trying to defend it? do I really need to bring up all the major events these two have had in eachothers lifes which make him barely showing to care, to be absurdly out of character? for exampe he trained her to be the warrior she is, she the reason he transformed back from death ect.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It really wouldn't make sense for Wolverine to go berzerker at the end of the story IMHO. The thing with Armor just seemed like nice nod to every other sidekick he has ever had.
It would have made far more senses then him showing zero emotion and no caring.

He did not even cry, or get angry or anything. he did nothing it was terrible characterization. He should have flipped out (going berserker is not him flipping out by the way), yelled told them to turn around something. him just sitting there barely concerned was just awful awful writing.

armor part was stupid, he pretty much put armor in there to have wolverine react with someone becuase he had no idea how to have him react to all ready defined character, when in reality he showed have either got rid of wolverine or got rid of armor and had wolverine simply interact with kitty.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
There were a few lines, I'd rather have you watching my back...or something a long those lines.

Then they spoke in Torn but that wasn't really Wolverine.

I do remember Whedon saying that he didn't want Wolverine though. That's probably why he kept him in the background for the most part.

He stated he had no idea how write wolverine or how to make him interact with the other characters.

which is fine, leave him out, but marvel of course made him write him. which is fine I don't mind that at all. characters can some times be written badly even though majority of the characters and story is written well. Thats happens, but to have a character die and to pretty much ignore the relationship and mishandle to character closest to them simply because of ignorance of the character annoys me. He should have done some home work and at least attempted to make a believeable reaction to her death, not some garbage about beer, which was the only thing he ever had wolverine say. That is why I think he overrated becuase he misshandle badly such a dramatic event and relationship the has been going on for 30 years. I mean imagin if that was actually her real death and she was never coming back, thats how there realationship ends? that just god awful.

On a side note I am pumped she is back. She is very interesting character, her powers are really cool, plus her death kinda sucked and how it was treated. I am looking forward to seeing her back in action and it would be really cool to see her get back to her ninja bad ass ways.

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Battlehammer
He barly even griefed he did not even care it seemed and other x-men with literrally nothing closes to the realationship he had with her were shown to grief far far more.

it was handle bad, why are you even trying to defend it? do I really need to bring up all the major events these two have had in eachothers lifes which make him barely showing to care, to be absurdly out of character?

It would have made far more senses then him showing zero emotion and no caring.

He did not even cry, or get angry or anything. he did nothing it was terrible characterization. He should have flipped out (going berserker is not him flipping out by the way), yelled told them to turn around something. him just sitting there barely concerned was just awful awful writing.

armor part was stupid, he pretty much put armor in there to have wolverine react with someone becuase he had no idea how to have him react to all ready defined character, when in reality he showed have either got rid of wolverine or got rid of armor and had wolverine simply interact with kitty.

I just disagree, no need to get so worked up. IMO I didn't think it was that OOC. I mean it's a bit of an exaggeration to say drinking oneselves sorrows away is doing nothing don't you think? He looked like a complete mess.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yea I agree, though I though the wheldon over all writing was a lot better.

I think Whedon is overrated. His writing didn't appeal to me like it did to others. I got tired of his Astonishing, Ellis is a nice change. I actually liked Ghost Box arc, it's the new one I have a problem with. Resurrecting mutants? Again? Bio-sentinels? WTF? Again??

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yea wasent the line like what you gunna fight me next or something. it was like really thats all you have wolverine say to kitty who he has not seen in months lol.

Yup... unbelievable.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I just disagree, no need to get so worked up. IMO I didn't think it was that OOC. I mean it's a bit of an exaggeration to say drinking oneselves sorrows away is doing nothing don't you think? He looked like a complete mess.
I mean what is there really to disagree with? it a fact he characterizaed there realationship badly and handle his reaction to her death badly. Hell even wheldon would agree to this and has said as much already in his inability to write wolverine. I mean this is also backed by the two times she almost did die and wolverine reactions as well as both eachothers roles in major events in there lifes. I mean almsot every single thing in there consistent history points that wheldon doing a very poor ass job at there relationship. I mean can you even come up with anytime were there relationship was treated so distant?

getting drunk is not a good way of showing there characterizations. All wheldon did through out the arks was bring up beer every time he had wolverine say or do anything........he treated him like an alcoholic........or did you miss that? I mean how is that ever closes to good characterization? showing him wrecked which for one makes no senses sinc ehe has a healing factor and two is a cop out which ignores there vast history.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I think Whedon is overrated. His writing didn't appeal to me like it did to others. I got tired of his Astonishing, Ellis is a nice change. I actually liked Ghost Box arc, it's the new one I have a problem with. Resurrecting mutants? Again? Bio-sentinels? WTF? Again??

Yup... unbelievable.
People like it so much because it wanked the shit out of emma and scot in my opinion. also it had some good over all stories. I hated ghost box I still dont even get what happened lol. I not sure I read the newest run is that the one that x-force has been part of?

yup

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I mean what is there really to disagree with? it a fact he characterizaed there realationship badly and handle his reaction to her death badly. Hell even wheldon would agree to this and has said as much already in his inability to write wolverine. I mean this is also backed by the two times she almost did die and wolverine reactions as well as both eachothers roles in major events in there lifes. I mean almsot every single thing in there consistent history points that wheldon doing a very poor ass job at there relationship. I mean can you even come up with anytime were there relationship was treated so distant?

getting drunk is not a good way of showing there characterizations. All wheldon did through out the arks was bring up beer every time he had wolverine say or do anything........he treated him like an alcoholic........or did you miss that? I mean how is that ever closes to good characterization? showing him wrecked which for one makes no senses sinc ehe has a healing factor and two is a cop out which ignores there vast history.

Wolverines showdown with Scott and Beast were done well. His lines to Armor were great too. He was mostly there for comedy relief sure but he had some great lines, especially to Fury and Agent Brand.

Getting drunk was a way of dealing with his guilt it was also a way to show off his relationship with Armor.

Battlehammer

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Wolverines showdown with Scott and Beast were done well. His lines to Armor were great too. He was mostly there for comedy relief sure but he had some great lines, especially to Fury and Agent Brand.

Getting drunk was a way of dealing with his guilt it was also a way to show off his relationship with Armor.
Not really at all. Him going into scots room and picking a fight was stupid and not stuff he done since like before his character developement.

beast was good? really please tell me were he ever once acted like that towards beast? That was garbage, and was out of character.

His lines with armor were funny, but not overly in or out of characters, they were ok.

fury and agent brand again nothing great character wises, actually if anything it was kinda off between him and fury a guy he been friends with before cyclopes was even born.

it was a shitty way that ignored his vast vast realationship with kitty and went against completely the first two tiems he thought she died. honestly how can you sit there and tell me that was ok characterization? if you really think so please go re read the last 20 years of there character relationship, because it would not support the believe him simply getting wrecked is good characterization for what he do if kitty died........ it was a cop out and lazyness at it best. I mean did you not notice that everytime wolverien talked or did anything beer was always mentioned?