Soap MacTavish VS Dr. Gordon Freeman

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AsbestosFlaygon
Soap has his sniper rifle (forgot the make)

Gordon Freeman gets a MP5 SMG.

Battle takes place in the rocky mountains of Afghanistan.

FinalAnswer
Soap destroys Gordon with his far, FAR superior skill

Anyone who says Gordon wins is an idiot.

Ms.Marvel
gordon easy.

hes taken on things that would manhandle soap.

plus, its gordon ****ing freeman

FinalAnswer
Nah.

Soap wins because his name is Soap.

Cyner
Gordon wins easily

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/theshortgamer/462171ce6cbl1.jpg

Ms.Marvel
yup!

FinalAnswer
Too bad he only has an MP5

smile

Ms.Marvel
laughing

gordon could kill him with his hands. an mp5 is overkill >D

No End N Site
Soap is badass! So was Ghost.

FinalAnswer
I approve of your avatar.

And nah. Gordon loses. Sorry.

Ms.Marvel
that would be correct.

if not for the fact that it isnt.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
that would be correct.

Got rid of that nasty little end bit for ya wink

Kazenji
Why the hell give one weapon to one character thats totally different to the other persons?

ArtificialGlory
Gordon's suit can protect him from quite a bit of gunfire. Soap doesn't have that kind of luxury, so unless he plays it perfectly, he's going down. Soap is an extremely good and experienced soldier, but Gordon went through some incredible shit and lived to tell the tale.

The odds are stacked against Soap in this one.

FinalAnswer
Diversity.

Though it doesn't matter what weapon Soap has, he slaughters Freeman. Likewise, unless he has the Super Gravity Gun (Even then, Soap can pop him in the head) he's chanceless

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Gordon's suit can protect him from quite a bit of gunfire. Soap doesn't have that kind of luxury, so unless he plays it perfectly, he's going down. Soap is an extremely good and experienced soldier, but Gordon went through some incredible shit and lived to tell the tale.

The odds are stacked against Soap in this one.

Two words.


BOOM HEADSHOT!

Kazenji
Gordan takes home the win

he's tackled sniper before.

FinalAnswer
Not an experienced, skilled sniper in the goddamn mountains of Afghanistan.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Not an experienced, skilled sniper in the goddamn mountains of Afghanistan.

Just as Soap hasn't taken anyone like Gordon before. Gordon's suit also has a helmet, so no *BOOM HEADSHOT.*

Ms.Marvel
theres also zero indication of how skilled soap is at all. even a little bit. half the people he kills he doesnt from a canon perspective have to kill, and a lot of the people he kills are no name russians who are hiding behind a piece of cover... or completely unaware of his presense. he also got his ass kicked by 60 year old shepherd.

not very impressive.

Cyner
Gordon uses Passive Reality Warping to defeat all his enemies.

Seriously though Gordon has defeated Cybernetically enhanced snipers who were using technology that far surpasses anything that exists today. This is spite, Soap doesn't stand a chance.

AsbestosFlaygon
Ok, so we take away his MP5.

Now he only has his trusty crowbar.

How does he fair against a seasoned sniper?

Ms.Marvel
does it have a sniper scope on it?

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Just as Soap hasn't taken anyone like Gordon before. Gordon's suit also has a helmet, so no *BOOM HEADSHOT.*

You mean scientists?

If he has a helmet, why doesn't he ever wear it? =l

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by Cyner
Gordon uses Passive Reality Warping to defeat all his enemies.

Seriously though Gordon has defeated Cybernetically enhanced snipers who were using technology that far surpasses anything that exists today. This is spite, Soap doesn't stand a chance.

In urban enviroments with lasers giving their positions away.

This is in mountains with a modern rifle used by a skilled and experienced special ops soldier.

Freeman dies.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Ok, so we take away his MP5.

Now he only has his trusty crowbar.

How does he fair against a seasoned sniper?

Hinder him so moar by golly.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
theres also zero indication of how skilled soap is at all. even a little bit. half the people he kills he doesnt from a canon perspective have to kill, and a lot of the people he kills are no name russians who are hiding behind a piece of cover... or completely unaware of his presense. he also got his ass kicked by 60 year old shepherd.

not very impressive.

Skilled Spetszaz troops as hell beats the slow moving aliens with little range capabilities that Freeman kills.

Yeah, he got thumped by Shepherd. Course, he had just gone over a waterfall and nearly drowned, and he obviously wasn't at his best, as shown by the way he was moving. But whatever.

Kazenji
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Not an experienced, skilled sniper in the goddamn mountains of Afghanistan.

And how is that any different to a Combine sniper?

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Skilled Spetszaz troops as hell beats the slow moving aliens with little range capabilities that Freeman kills.

proof for this statement. youre trying to assert that one canon fodder lackey is more proficent than the other, without any substantiation. provide some.



and neither was shephard.

explain to me why a 70 year old man that had ALSO just gone over a waterfall (in fact he was ina burning helicopter that crashed into the ground, which is more severe than a boat falling into more water) and wasnt fresh, is able to beat two guys in the primes of their lives?

thats not an excuse. next.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
You mean scientists?

If he has a helmet, why doesn't he ever wear it? =l

If by scientists you mean guys who fight off alien invasions, human military SpecOps, half-human and half-alien militias, travel to alterante dimensions to fight alien masterminds, blow up massive alien robots on a regular basis, and more. You know, simple scientists like Gordon.

I don't know why Gordon is always portrayed without the helmet. Probably has something to do with the established image of his.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
If by scientists you mean guys who fight off alien invasions, human military SpecOps, half-human and half-alien militias, travel to alterante dimensions to fight alien masterminds, blow up massive alien robots on a regular basis, and more. You know, simple scientists like Gordon.

I don't know why Gordon is always portrayed without the helmet. Probably has something to do with the established image of his.

Yet he has no known experience with weapons beforehand. Huh. Must be pretty weak guys Gordon kills.

Mebbe because when he goes to put on the suit, there is no helmet. You have no proof Gordon has ever used a helmet.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
proof for this statement. youre trying to assert that one canon fodder lackey is more proficent than the other, without any substantiation. provide some.



and neither was shephard.

explain to me why a 70 year old man that had ALSO just gone over a waterfall (in fact he was ina burning helicopter that crashed into the ground, which is more severe than a boat falling into more water) and wasnt fresh, is able to beat two guys in the primes of their lives?

thats not an excuse. next.

Soap mows through Spetsnaz, who are considered among the world's most elite soldiers. Much better feats then the featless Combine.

If Shephard is 70, obvious PIS is obvious. He seemed more of a early 60 to me.

You talk like Shephard has no skill in combat. But, again, if he's 70, it's PIS.

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Soap mows through Spetsnaz, who are considered among the world's most elite soldiers. Much better feats then the featless Combine.

"considered" isnt proof sorry. and thats not a feat either.



or. perhaps soap isnt as awesome as you think he is. "pis" is when there is a breach in continuity. there is no continuity in which soap is some elite fighting god so there is no pis.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Yet he has no known experience with weapons beforehand. Huh. Must be pretty weak guys Gordon kills.

Mebbe because when he goes to put on the suit, there is no helmet. You have no proof Gordon has ever used a helmet.

Maybe it's because he's wearing that power suit. There is, however, no reason to believe that the redshirts Gordon fights are somehow "weaker" than the redshirts Soap fights. Both fight trained soldiers that use guns, grenades, combat tactics, etc. It's just that Gordon fights much more deadlier and destructive stuff along the way as well.

The HEV power suits come with a helmet. That would explain how Gordon can survive environments that would kill an exposed person. Especially one with exposed respiratory system.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
"considered" isnt proof sorry. and thats not a feat either.



or. perhaps soap isnt as awesome as you think he is. "pis" is when there is a breach in continuity. there is no continuity in which soap is some elite fighting god so there is no pis.

http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/
http://www.spetsnaztraining.com/view/
http://www.kgb-militaryschool.com/view/Spetsnaz_Battle_Training
http://www.kgb-militaryschool.com/view/Spetsnaz_weapons
http://www.kgb-militaryschool.com/view/Spetsnaz_selection


Woah. Go wild.

Soap plows through armies of these soldiers.


No soldier on a US Special Forces team is going to get their ass kicked by a 70 year old man. It is either PIS that Soap, a seasoned Special Forces captain lost to a 70 year old man, or Shephard has impressive enough skill to take down both Soap and Price, and is far and away above any other 70 year old man. Take your pick.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Maybe it's because he's wearing that power suit. There is, however, no reason to believe that the redshirts Gordon fights are somehow "weaker" than the redshirts Soap fights. Both fight trained soldiers that use guns, grenades, combat tactics, etc. It's just that Gordon fights much more deadlier and destructive stuff along the way as well.

The HEV power suits come with a helmet. That would explain how Gordon can survive environments that would kill an exposed person. Especially one with exposed respiratory system.

Spetsnaz have more feats then the featless combine. Infact, all the enemies Gordon seems to fight are braindead or something, moreso in the first HL. And the difference between Gordon and Soap is Soap actually has combat training. Gordon doesn't.

I have never seen this fabled helmet of Gordon's.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Spetsnaz have more feats then the featless combine. Infact, all the enemies Gordon seems to fight are braindead or something, moreso in the first HL. And the difference between Gordon and Soap is Soap actually has combat training. Gordon doesn't.

I have never seen this fabled helmet of Gordon's.

I was talking about the SpecOps soldiers from the first HL.

Are you using gameplay A.I. limitations of a game from the past millennium as proof that the enemies Gordon fights are somehow "braindead?" You know, come to think of it, the enemies I fought in MW and MW2 were pretty stupid as well.

It's true that Gordon is always portrayed without the helmet, but how does he survive the environment of alien planet(s) that is extremely deadly to exposed humans? You could also say that headcrabs should technically one-shot him if he didn't have something protecting his dead.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I was talking about the SpecOps soldiers from the first HL.

Are you using gameplay A.I. limitations of a game from the past millennium as proof that the enemies Gordon fights are somehow "braindead?" You know, come to think of it, the enemies I fought in MW and MW2 were pretty stupid as well.

It's true that Gordon is always portrayed without the helmet, but how does he survive the environment of alien planet(s) that is extremely deadly to exposed humans? You could also say that headcrabs should technically one-shot him if he didn't have something protecting his dead.

And what feats do these soldiers have?

Kinda hard to use Half life in a debate as it's all gameplay. You can try to argue the same thing for MW2, but Spetsnaz is real. Most of the enemies Gordon fights are not (Gordon fights US Rangers in HL doesn't he?)

Freeman is walking PIS. He is essentially the Jesus of Videogames, in that even though he has no known combat training, he can smash his way through aliens and ignore radiation. Though if I recall correctly, when Adrian sees Freeman for like a split second in HL, he is not wearing the helm. Nor does his character model in HL or HL2 have a helm.

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/
http://www.spetsnaztraining.com/view/
http://www.kgb-militaryschool.com/view/Spetsnaz_Battle_Training
http://www.kgb-militaryschool.com/view/Spetsnaz_weapons
http://www.kgb-militaryschool.com/view/Spetsnaz_selection


Woah. Go wild.

read what i said again.



you have a bunch of articles that fellate spetnaz. congratulations. how does this prove that they are more skilled than the combine? it doesnt. do you know why? there are three reasons:

1. none of these articles compare the spetsnaz to the combine.

2. the spetsnaz in real life are much smarter and dealier than the spetsnaz in the video game.

3. these are not feats- these are descriptions. descriptions are not feats. descriptions are hearsay.

try again. feats please. and before you delve into troll tactics and accuse me of not presenting proof of my own, realize that it was in fact you who stated that one force was more skilled than the other; not me.



the russian military would never be so affective against the usa that they could actually reach Washington dc.

a nuclear weapon of the size we see in the game going off on earth can not create an energy wave that could destroy a station in space.

no soldier regardless of his skill can hit a moving target that is three hundred yards away while firing from the hip and running with an ak-47.

a snow mobile can not cross a hundred foot gap regardless of how fast its going.

no soldiers in real life fight in as stupid of a manner as your enemies do in the game. the spetsnaz that youre going all balls deep over used tactics in the game that even the greenest soldier would say is suicide.


video games =\= real life.



youre arguing against the game itself. shepherd did not fight with seemingly inhuman speed, did not use advanced martial arts techniques or guile. he used standard, basic moves and moved about as fast as any 70 year old in excellent shape would move. so obviously he is not "that" skilled. and by that same token soap never displayed any kind of epic fighting skills either. so i guess ill take the third option trebec: obviously the SAS in the video game have much lower standards then the real life version (for proof look at the combat tactics used by both your allies and by the enemy, obviously everyone in the game is semi-retarded), and soap is simply not up to snuff.

let me display what your argument is and why it ultimately fails.

"here in the real world spetsnaz are held in high regard and seen as a skilled fighting force. therefore they are more skilled than a fictional army using high-tech weaponry."

and the second half:

"because in the real world a 70 year old man can not beat a SAS in his prime, this fictional video game that is only loosely based off of reality must follow the same rules of logic, despite this video game veering away from reality multiple times."

i dont need to explain why this fallacious.

AsbestosFlaygon
Damn!
FinalAnswer got OWNED! laughing out loud


He's making Soap cooler than he actually was in the games.

Heck, Soap was just indentical to Ramirez, Allen, and Johnson.


And yes, Dr. Freeman has a scope for his crowbar laughing out loud

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
And what feats do these soldiers have?

Kinda hard to use Half life in a debate as it's all gameplay. You can try to argue the same thing for MW2, but Spetsnaz is real. Most of the enemies Gordon fights are not (Gordon fights US Rangers in HL doesn't he?)

Freeman is walking PIS. He is essentially the Jesus of Videogames, in that even though he has no known combat training, he can smash his way through aliens and ignore radiation. Though if I recall correctly, when Adrian sees Freeman for like a split second in HL, he is not wearing the helm. Nor does his character model in HL or HL2 have a helm.

What feats do American SpecOps soldiers might possibly have? The soldiers Gordon fights also have better equipment than the ones Soap fights.

You're right on that one. It can be pretty hard to gauge HL characters because HL has virtually no cutscenes or anything like that.

No, you see, there is a difference between PIS and fiction being fictitious and unrealistic. Virtually all main protagonist characters in video games overcome seemingly impossible odds, some of these characters are unlikely, like Gordon Freeman.

Do you know why he can mostly ignore radiation and deadly environments of alien planets? Because he has a power suit protecting him. And finally, even if Gordon didn't have any combat training/experience at the beginning of the HL series, he certainly does have now.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
read what i said again.



you have a bunch of articles that fellate spetnaz. congratulations. how does this prove that they are more skilled than the combine? it doesnt. do you know why? there are three reasons:

1. none of these articles compare the spetsnaz to the combine.

2. the spetsnaz in real life are much smarter and dealier than the spetsnaz in the video game.

3. these are not feats- these are descriptions. descriptions are not feats. descriptions are hearsay.

try again. feats please. and before you delve into troll tactics and accuse me of not presenting proof of my own, realize that it was in fact you who stated that one force was more skilled than the other; not me.



the russian military would never be so affective against the usa that they could actually reach Washington dc.

a nuclear weapon of the size we see in the game going off on earth can not create an energy wave that could destroy a station in space.

no soldier regardless of his skill can hit a moving target that is three hundred yards away while firing from the hip and running with an ak-47.

a snow mobile can not cross a hundred foot gap regardless of how fast its going.

no soldiers in real life fight in as stupid of a manner as your enemies do in the game. the spetsnaz that youre going all balls deep over used tactics in the game that even the greenest soldier would say is suicide.


video games =\= real life.



youre arguing against the game itself. shepherd did not fight with seemingly inhuman speed, did not use advanced martial arts techniques or guile. he used standard, basic moves and moved about as fast as any 70 year old in excellent shape would move. so obviously he is not "that" skilled. and by that same token soap never displayed any kind of epic fighting skills either. so i guess ill take the third option trebec: obviously the SAS in the video game have much lower standards then the real life version (for proof look at the combat tactics used by both your allies and by the enemy, obviously everyone in the game is semi-retarded), and soap is simply not up to snuff.

let me display what your argument is and why it ultimately fails.

"here in the real world spetsnaz are held in high regard and seen as a skilled fighting force. therefore they are more skilled than a fictional army using high-tech weaponry."

and the second half:

"because in the real world a 70 year old man can not beat a SAS in his prime, this fictional video game that is only loosely based off of reality must follow the same rules of logic, despite this video game veering away from reality multiple times."

i dont need to explain why this fallacious.

Maybe because the Combine have very little feats. They have advanced weaponry. Great. What else do they have? They don't come off as particularly skilled to me. I have seen NO zomguber1337skillz. Infact, using ingame feats, Gordon's enemies are even more retarded.

K

K

K

Then let me change my argument. Looking at the scene again, Shephard never "outskilled" Soap. All he did was sidestep an injured and dazed Soap, slam his head, then stab him. Wow. He then got into an irelevant fight with Price. There was no fighting whatsoever between Soap and Shephard.

The Combine having better tech has little to do with them being more skilled.

Didn't beat him, as there was no fight.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
What feats do American SpecOps soldiers might possibly have? The soldiers Gordon fights also have better equipment than the ones Soap fights.

You're right on that one. It can be pretty hard to gauge HL characters because HL has virtually no cutscenes or anything like that.

No, you see, there is a difference between PIS and fiction being fictitious and unrealistic. Virtually all main protagonist characters in video games overcome seemingly impossible odds, some of these characters are unlikely, like Gordon Freeman.

Do you know why he can mostly ignore radiation and deadly environments of alien planets? Because he has a power suit protecting him. And finally, even if Gordon didn't have any combat training/experience at the beginning of the HL series, he certainly does have now.

Nah ah. Reality =/= Fiction. We must use solely ingame feats. And by ingame feats, the enemies Gordon fights are braindead morons. =O

And do you know why Gordon wins? Because he's packing enough weapons to supply a small army. Soap fights with like two weapons. That's one of the reasons why Gordon can do what he does, Is because he carries around like 10 weapons. In this fight, all he gets is his crowbar.

k.

Gordon does it to a stupid extent. It's like if I soloed some third world militia with nothing but a pocket knife and a pistol.

Kazenji
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
the enemies Gordon fights are braindead morons. =O

In what way?

some of the enemies i fought in Half-Life 2 were pretty smart.

FinalAnswer
Mainly the ones in HL.

Y'know, the ones that run around the corner enmass to fight Gordon, even after watching their buddy run around the corner, and get shot.

The Combine never struck me as particularly intelligent, although to be fair, it's been forever since I played Half Life 2.

Ms.Marvel
spetnaz do the same thing

just trhowing that in there

FinalAnswer
Atleast they know what the word "cover" means.


The soldiers in HL will not even try to move for cover, and will stand there shooting at you until they die.

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