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No claws.

No BFR.

Who wins?

i gotta flag this for spite. man bro you gotta stop this behavior b4 u make enemies and get banned.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow


i gotta flag this for spite. man bro you gotta stop this behavior b4 u make enemies and get banned. what the hell you babbling about? How is this spite? for who?

It a spite, though during the vast majority of the fight in appear as if it was a spite against individual who will end up winning.........

Eventually Luke would knock Logan out, but not before getting punched in the face many times and several failed attempts to grab Wolvie.

nah,... Logan just waits luke out since it is his most likely chance of winning short of ko'ing him.

14 hour fights and days, week without sleep Luke passes out b4 logan does.

Originally posted by SamZED
Eventually Luke would knock Logan out, but not before getting punched in the face many times and several failed attempts to grab Wolvie.
Yup, Wolverine would be running a clinic on him and appear to be owning, but in the end he be KOed though the vast majority of the fight he look like he was kicking Lukes ass.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Yup, Wolverine would be running a clinic on him and appear to be owning, but in the end he be KOed though the vast majority of the fight he look like he was kicking Lukes ass. lol

originally I thought you meant cage would be owning logan for majority of fight

You want Class 2(at the most extreme cases) Logan to knock out, or kill Luke Cage...with his bare hands?

Scans of luke cage being knocked out by a 1 ton hitter anyone?

facepalm

either Logan tires cage out and he falls asleep from exhaustion, or cage knocks logan out, how did you see this fight going?

Can you give a scenerio of a way Logan wins this?

Originally posted by Juk3n
You want Class 2(at the most extreme cases) Logan to knock out, or kill Luke Cage...with his bare hands?

Scans of luke cage being knocked out by a 1 ton hitter anyone?

facepalm logan punches with adamantium knuckes...his punches could hurt logan

also logan can throw cage around with judo,etc

Originally posted by Juk3n
You want Class 2(at the most extreme cases) Logan to knock out, or kill Luke Cage...with his bare hands?

Scans of luke cage being knocked out by a 1 ton hitter anyone?

facepalm
Logan in extreme cases is over a class 2 to be honest.

if a normal human who can only lift 250 can create attacks strong enough that they are the same force off a 40 mile car crash. I wonder what a person of Wolverine or capt or DD or ect can cause.


However that being said Luke durability is to high.

Originally posted by Starscream M


also logan can throw cage around with judo,etc

Yea and to what avail would this accomplish?

Originally posted by Starscream M
also logan can throw cage around with judo,etc

Then it's not a slugfest...

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Yea and to what avail would this accomplish? it could be a way to KO him. if luke gets slammed to the ground repeatedly, he would be disoriented

plus logan's punchs would hurt cage

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Then it's not a slugfest... what I mean by slugfest is just weaponless melee combat

Originally posted by Starscream M
it could be a way to KO him. if luke gets slammed to the ground repeatedly, he would be disoriented

plus logan's punchs would hurt cage

Originally posted by Battlehammer


However that being said Luke durability is to high.

Originally posted by Juk3n
luke cage has unbreakable skin...but couldn't logan still damage him internally?

Originally posted by Starscream M
it could be a way to KO him. if luke gets slammed to the ground repeatedly, he would be disoriented

plus logan's punchs would hurt cage
No he wouldent........you do understand that Logan Punshes and kicks would create greater force then throw would and be back by unbreakable metal.........throws would be the worst idea ever, they be the biggest risk with the least award........

based on what?

Originally posted by Starscream M
luke cage has unbreakable skin...but couldn't logan still damage him internally?

someone with Cages durability bracing himself for an attack from someone vastly weaker isnt going to cause internal damage, a surprise attack with logans full force? Maybe. But facing head to head, im not so sure. Maybe logan can get a clean VERY hard throat shot, then some eye shots..

Originally posted by Battlehammer
.throws would be the worst idea ever, they be the biggest risk with the least award........

no, that comment just shows your ignorance about fighting in general.

if you throw someone, you could use their force against them, so in effect, Logan could be smashing cage against the ground with cage's strength amplifying the momentum of the throw...which would be far greater than logan's punch

Originally posted by Juk3n
someone with Cages durability bracing himself for an attack from someone vastly weaker isnt going to cause internal damage, a surprise attack with logans full force? Maybe. But facing head to head, im not so sure. Maybe logan can get a clean VERY hard throat shot, then some eye shots.. kidney shots too...those add up

Originally posted by Starscream M
no, that comment just shows your ignorance about fighting in general.

if you throw someone, you could use their force against them, so in effect, Logan could be smashing cage against the ground with cage's strength amplifying the momentum of the throw...which would be far greater than logan's punch

no! cages strength wont be amplifying the throw, his WEIGHT would, but still not enough a solid martial arts blow with a smaller surface area (like a hand) has more impact force than the person hitting the ground.

unless Luke lands directly on his head and his own weight/strength snaps his neck, i dont see how just slamming him would be more effective then just punching kicking him.

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/Thunderbolts137020.jpg

Originally posted by Starscream M
no, that comment just shows your ignorance about fighting in general.

if you throw someone, you could use their force against them, so in effect, Logan could be smashing cage against the ground with cage's strength amplifying the momentum of the throw...which would be far greater than logan's punch
Not at all, it shows your ignorance.

Not really, you can take a digree of there motion it won't be like Wolverine taking lukes own strangth and hitting him with it not even closes to that. He take lukes momentum and throw him with it, it won't amplify the damage and it only portion of the momentum. It very ineffective against someone of lukes durability and strength. It also very risky, becuase your putting yourself within easy grabbing range of someone many times your strength, it a terrible idea.

Originally posted by Juk3n
no! cages strength wont be amplifying the throw, his WEIGHT would, but still not enough a solid martial arts blow with a smaller surface area (like a hand) has more impact force than the person hitting the ground.
cosign.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
It also very risky, becuase your putting yourself within easy grabbing range of someone many times your strength, it a terrible idea. well, logan always fights closerange regardless...and against much tougher and stronger foes than cage

also, that scan shows that Iron Fist's kick damaged cage. so wolverine fist would damage cage (internally) as well.

Am I the only one tired of Bendis wanking Cage nonstop?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Am I the only one tired of Bendis wanking Cage nonstop? umm yeah. I love bendis portrayal of cage. its not wanking at all.

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, logan always fights closerange regardless...and against much tougher and stronger foes than cage

also, that scan shows that Iron Fist's kick damaged cage. so wolverine fist would damage cage (internally) as well.
He fights closes range, but does not trying stupid throws and so forth, becuase it illogical and foolish move.




That issue was terrible, danny can amp him self and that was a simulation........

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Am I the only one tired of Bendis wanking Cage nonstop?
I am as well.



but dont say that around mister bruce here think cage is a better and more competent person to lead on the new avengers........

wolverine could go manifest destiny on luke's blk @$$ i quess for the win..
angel_not

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/WMD_04_Oroboros_DCP_016.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/WMD_04_Oroboros_DCP_017.jpg

Originally posted by Starscream M
umm yeah. I love bendis portrayal of cage. its not wanking at all.

Sure it's not...

Originally posted by Battlehammer
That issue was terrible, danny can amp him self and that was a simulation........

Yeah, it was. At least there was an explanation at the end why most of T-bolts screwed up so badly, but still...

Simulation was earlier. In that scan IF KO'd real Luke.

I loved that issue, I hope Arron creates another issue like that in greater detail.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sure it's not.. um...how the hell is bendis wanking luke?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sure it's not...



Yeah, it was. At least there was an explanation at the end why most of T-bolts screwed up so badly, but still...

Simulation was earlier. In that scan IF KO'd real Luke.
I have to re read the issue, though i remeber so much PIS and just crap writing lol.


That was when he beat the real luke? I thought that was a trick, so that they could ambush the Thunderbolts.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

but dont say that around mister bruce here think cage is a better and more competent person to lead on the new avengers........ he is more competent than spiderman and wolverine to lead new avengers.

can any of you wolverine fans and Uncanny x men fans show the scan where logan ko's Rogue with a nerve pinch?

it was during the time logan Ko'ed her dragged her to the danger room and forced her to fight for leader ship of the X-men. it was in X-men #100 here is the cover.

anyways i have always thought that Rogue invulnerability was greater then lukes and she was by far stronger as well...

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/8/85/Rogue_and_Wolverine_001.gif
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_y3W81YXu5p4/ScV7ubPfavI/AAAAAAAAA20/M2arMhqeV_4/s1600-h/xmenbanner2.jpg

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I have to re read the issue, though i remeber so much PIS and just crap writing lol.


That was when he beat the real luke? I thought that was a trick, so that they could ambush the Thunderbolts.

It hurts to read that. It really does.

No, that was later.

Luke Cage

Originally posted by Starscream M
he is more competent than spiderman and wolverine to lead new avengers. yeah.. okay whatever you say there body....


care to explain your logic building to us?

anyways to answer the luke cage wanking, yes...

blue_bandana

Danny made Cage bleed with a non-amped punch in that issue, too biscuits

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
yeah.. okay whatever you say there body....


care to explain your logic building to us?

anyways to answer the luke cage wanking, yes...

blue_bandana peter parker is a wisecracking, low confidence, clown

logan is a moody, antisocial, loner

neither would be good for a team like new avengers.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Danny made Cage bleed with a non-amped punch in that issue, too biscuits yup, thats why i posted it. remeber guys he is only vulnerable outside not inside even though we have bn getting some rather inconsistent powerset from cage lately.

mental note inner skin tissue like the inside of the mouth is not invulnerable and luke can still feel pain regardless of durability.

i can make a defense even when we have a spite thread.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

i can make a defense even when we have a spite thread. its not spite. stop trolling.

Originally posted by Starscream M
peter parker is a wisecracking, low confidence, clown

logan is a moody, antisocial, loner

neither would be good for a team like new avengers.
spending his free time alone or away from certain members has nothing to do with running a team...

care to explain the pros and cons of luke that you think would put him above either characters you just mention?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

care to explain the pros and cons of luke that you thing would put him above either characters you just mention?

luke cage has confidence - parker doesn't - logan does

luke cage is social - parker isn't (he's not even comfortable telling everyone his identity) - logan isn't (he goes on his own at times without telling anyone where he is)

luke cage is trusted - this both peter and logan do as well

luke cage has experience leading - peter doesn't have much - logan has some

big lulz@ "some"

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
big lulz@ "some" you know superman and Batman dont have much confidence b/c they dont even tell everyone their secret identity...

@starscream

how much experience does luke have over wolverine adn can you give instances when luke led teams?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
big lulz@ "some" still waiting to hear how bendis is wanking cage...

cage 10/10

Originally posted by Starscream M
still waiting to hear how bendis is wanking cage...

Are you serious? How is he not doing that? Everything is about him...

Now he's going to lead new T-bolts team, that's just idiocy... facepalm

Wolverine either takes him down with pressure points, or the fight goes until Luke passes out from over exertion.

Originally posted by Starscream M
he is more competent than spiderman and wolverine to lead new avengers.
Not surprized you believe that given your comic knolwedge............

Originally posted by Starscream M
luke cage has confidence - parker doesn't - logan does

luke cage is social - parker isn't (he's not even comfortable telling everyone his identity) - logan isn't (he goes on his own at times without telling anyone where he is)

luke cage is trusted - this both peter and logan do as well

luke cage has experience leading - peter doesn't have much - logan has some
Scot was no confident for years and was still consider one of the greatest leaders in marvel.........

Becuase one does not give up there indentity that makes them not social? You know how stupid that sounds? Spiderman is easily one of the most social, hell he to social at times.....if anything....... Wolverine dispite his gruffness is closest more so to many of the x-men then anyone elses on the team. Being social has nothing to do with being a great leader........

Peter easily has as much as Cage..........Logan has well over 10 times the experience then cage.............

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Scot was no confident for years and was still consider one of the greatest leaders in marvel.........

Becuase one does not give up there indentity that makes them not social? You know how stupid that sounds? Spiderman is easily one of the most social, hell he to social at times.....if anything....... Wolverine dispite his gruffness is closest more so to many of the x-men then anyone elses on the team. Being social has nothing to do with being a great leader........

Peter easily has as much as Cage..........Logan has well over 10 times the experience then cage............. yeah scott have xavier's backup to help him get his authority

yes...not telling your fellow teammates who you are does make you antisocial. wolverine may be close, but that doesn't mean he is as social as cage.

lol ok

how many friends does Cage have how many teams has he led?...

Leadership is based on time and experience and yes authority not socialibility . something cyke had over all his other xmen... he was Xavier's prized student for a reason a person can be a leader and not have much confindence outside his role

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah scott have xavier's backup to help him get his authority
ok
Not at all. Much of the time Prof X wa snot even there on missions or even in the same country.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes...not telling your fellow teammates who you are does make you antisocial. wolverine may be close, but that doesn't mean he is as social as cage.

lol ok
There many idfferent ways to be social, and again it has litterally nothing to do with being a leader.........how do you think the military works? For starters back in the 40's officers "leaders" were not even suposes to sit at the same table as there men..........

So I dont understand were you keep thinking that social = good leadership, becuase thats not true in the least.


and whats with the lol? thats not funny it a simply what is.

it's obvious he has never served in the service or he would have heard the term fraternization, which makes his social argument irrelevant for leadership of a team and he would know it has nothing to do with one another.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not at all. Much of the time Prof X wa snot even there on missions or even in the same country.


There many idfferent ways to be social, and again it has litterally nothing to do with being a leader.........how do you think the military works? For starters back in the 40's officers "leaders" were not even suposes to sit at the same table as there men..........

So I dont understand were you keep thinking that social = good leadership, becuase thats not true in the least.


and whats with the lol? thats not funny it a simply what is.

1. doesn't matter that prof x wasn't on the mission. all the other xmen knew prof x designated scott leader...so he was given authority. later on, he obviously earned their respect and trust.

2. military is not avengers. what works in the military doesn't work in the avengers. poor analogy.

3. i don't think logan has 10x more leadership experience than cage.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
it's obvious he has never served in the service or he would have heard the term fraternization, which makes his social argument irrelevant for leadership of a team and he would know it has nothing to do with one another. jeez...against, leadership is different in military vs a voluntary group of heroes.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
it's obvious he has never served in the service or he would have heard the term fraternization, which makes his social argument irrelevant for leadership of a team and he would know it has nothing to do with one another.
It all about respect.

Capt I believe put it best when talking about Wolverine and how happy he was he stayed with the team stating "you give those around you strength" (quote not word for word just the gist)

Originally posted by Battlehammer
It all about respect.

Capt I believe put it best when talking about Wolverine and how happy he was he stayed with the team stating "you give those around you strength" (quote not word for word just the gist) so...I agree wolverine is a very good team member. thats different from leading though.

Originally posted by Starscream M
1. doesn't matter that prof x wasn't on the mission. all the other xmen knew prof x designated scott leader...so he was given authority. later on, he obviously earned their respect and trust.

2. military is not avengers. what works in the military doesn't work in the avengers. poor analogy.

3. i don't think logan has 10x more leadership experience than cage. jawdrop


sigh.... i just dont know what to say to you some time you shock me with ur ability to remain on this site when other ppl can barely last a week...

Originally posted by Starscream M
1. doesn't matter that prof x wasn't on the mission. all the other xmen knew prof x designated scott leader...so he was given authority. later on, he obviously earned their respect and trust.

Again how is this relevent? It has nothing to do with oens ability to lead. Scot even up to a few years ago had little confidences and yet he still was one of the greatest leaders there was.

Originally posted by Starscream M
2. military is not avengers. what works in the military doesn't work in the avengers. poor analogy.
There not the same, but leadership is the same. It not about beign social it about respect and being tactical and aspiring thoses around you, just like in the military and it not by chances that the best leader was military man.........

Originally posted by Starscream M
3. i don't think logan has 10x more leadership experience than cage.
Really how many teams has cage led?

Wolverines run several teams of x-men, x force, alpha flight , numerous special opts groups, cia teamas like team x ect. He been doing so for longer then cage has been alive........

Originally posted by Starscream M
jeez...against, leadership is different in military vs a voluntary group of heroes. even voluntary combat unit still need to plan and prep and use logistics... you dont just go into battle and start barking orders without rehearsing and not knowing everyone's strength and weaknesses

how much military knowledge for leadership does he possess?
can he read a compass? read a map? studied combat manuevers? is he a student of powers? what can he do?

Originally posted by Starscream M
so...I agree wolverine is a very good team member. thats different from leading though.
It much closer to leading that being social............which has been your very poor arguement.......


another perfect example is when snowbird states "I don't like you wolverine, but I can not deny your abilities to lead and Hudson chioce in you." (again it just the gist)

Originally posted by Battlehammer
It much closer to leading that being social............which has been your very poor arguement....... I think social matters when its a small unit of very different people.

thats why the military analogy is weak...because generals lead thousands of soldiers...so of course they can't socialize.

logan would make a good military leader.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think social matters when its a small unit of very different people.

thats why the military analogy is weak...because generals lead thousands of soldiers...so of course they can't socialize.

logan would make a good military leader.
Then you be very mistaken. Being social does not make one a good leader, Night Crawler for one is one of the most social individuals, but he a very poor leader.


But thats not what we were talking about, we stated officer's who might only lead 12 men. They were not even allowed for decades to fratinizes with there men. So your whole idea that a good leader is some one who social is simply wrong.


Even look at scot, the less social he gotten over the years and the better leader he become. Your job as leader is not to make everyone happy, it to make the tough chioces.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Then you be very mistaken. Being social does not make one a good leader, Night Crawler for one is one of the most social individuals, but he a very poor leader.

I never said being social was sufficient to being a good leader...I said it was a necessary part. You still need other attributes that NC lacks.

Also, when I say social...I don't mean you have to party or joke around all day. I mean you have to constantly keep in touch and communicate. Logan is often on his own and his teammates often don't even know where he's off to.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I never said being social was sufficient to being a good leader...I said it was a necessary part. You still need other attributes that NC lacks.

Also, when I say social...I don't mean you have to party or joke around all day. I mean you have to constantly keep in touch and communicate. Logan is often on his own and his teammates often don't even know where he's off to.
Agaian it not enough, nor is it needed in this is backed by comics events and real world events.



That has really nothing to do with aleading teams either. You can be a terrible leader, but stay in touch.

Being a good leader is to have respect from your peers, have absolute word, tactically sound and most important to give strength and inspiration to thoses around you. Reason why capt is so good.

Luke being more social then wolverine and spiderman for why he a better leader is absurd........

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think social matters when its a small unit of very different people.

thats why the military analogy is weak...because generals lead thousands of soldiers...so of course they can't socialize.

logan would make a good military leader.

the military has one top general then it breaks down all the way down into groups from as large as battalion, regiment, brigade right down to a small combat unit and even fire teams..


Fire teams are very small about 4 to 6 ppl maybe a medic depending what ur mission is...

and yes.. you can build a bond with ur men around you and perhaps socialize that doesnt mean you cross the line to fraternization and hanging out drinking and partying with "one" of your men.

you can hang out with them together not individually you dont make special exception and you dont disgrace urself in front of your men or ur country by being an idiot and getting drunk.


i have socialized with the commandant of the marine corps at special events that doesnt mean i razz him or he razzes me we can share stories and socialize and if lucky i can get a coin... by u still reserve respect... pls try to look up and learn what it is ur arguing about.

Originally posted by Battlehammer


Being a good leader is to have respect from your peers, have absolute word, tactically sound and most important to give strength and inspiration to thoses around you. Reason why capt is so good.
and luke has all those qualities

again what is luke cage's qualification for team leader?

Even if you look at New Avengers when it was sorta lead by Cage (which it not anymore) and you look at X-force lead by Wolverine. Wolverine does a lot more leading and tactics, then Cage ever showed.

Originally posted by Starscream M
and luke has all those qualities
Again no more then Spiderman and not as much as Wolverine.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Even if you look at New Avengers when it was sorta lead by Cage (which it not anymore) and you look at X-force lead by Wolverine. Wolverine does a lot more leading and tactics, then Cage ever showed. that's due to the nature of the team. new avengers are filled with vets.

Originally posted by Starscream M
that's due to the nature of the team. new avengers are filled with vets.
.......and x-force isnet? X-force is filled with x-men killers.......



Cage did not even get the nod for leadership, it was given to barton....... Logan was asked to lead the team he leading. He been asked to lead several teams.....how many teams cgae been asked to lead?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
.......and x-force isnet? X-force is filled with x-men killers.......



Cage did not even get the nod for leadership, it was given to barton....... Logan was asked to lead the team he leading. He been asked to lead several teams.....how many teams cgae been asked to lead? it was not given to barton...barton just took it

don't know

Originally posted by Starscream M
and luke has all those qualities can you give examples when he did those things?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
can you give examples when he did those things?

1. he has total respect and love from those around him - when osborn implanted that thing in his heart, look how many heroes showed up to help him

2. he is tactically sound - he is being asked to now lead the thunderbolts

3. he is inspirational - see #1

hmm...

1. not sure how many ppl actuallt love him and you can say that ppl respect him as a person doesnt mean they will respect you as a leader.

logan has had his team members fight for him and rescue him. logan tries his best to not get them involved when he feels certain things are too dangerous and are just his problems..

2. tactically sound? how? unless you mean he has common sense..

3. inspirational? how when was it shown or said?

There is a difference between being liked and respected. Luke Cage is certainly well liked (like every other superhero who's name isn't Frank Castle), but that could actually under mind someones authority... which would be bad he actually ever decided to excercise his power and lead the Avengers, which isn't something he has done. His entire stint as "leader" of the Avengers has been him sitting back While Dr. Strange, Clint, Wolverine and Bucky come up with a plan for what ever situation they are in this month. The best argument against Luke being able to lead a team is his time as leader of a team, where he did virtually nothing.

Saying Avengers Assemble doesn't make you a good leader. He was the leader because other more capable people didn't want to be, not because he was the best choice.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Are you serious? How is he not doing that? Everything is about him...

Now he's going to lead new T-bolts team, that's just idiocy... facepalm this seems strange to me, perhaps another topic should be made for this, but Luke Cage (the way the writers explained it) seems the perfect fit to run the thunderbolts

Using I.F. to show Cage can be busted open is pretty spotty. Even before his amp he could dent steel with non iron fist punches. Now they've got him Karate chopping helicarriers out of the sky. If you ask me, I think marvel may have amped him a little too much. Any more and he's going to approach KK levels of absurdity. And this is coming from a huge fan of his.

Can Danny even be considered a street leveler at this point?

I think even without claws Wolvie has a lot going for him in terms of speed, skill etc. But Cage has some of the best durability in all of marvel. This is a toughy.