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The two are supposed to be the most powerful DC/Marvel beings. Who takes it?

Stalemate.

Two supreme beings facing off? It's a stalemate now will a mod close this.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Stalemate.

Ah, at first this appears to be a draw, but one of them has a secret weapon.

One of them has Squirrel Girl.

Eraser?

Originally posted by Q99
Ah, at first this appears to be a draw, but one of them has a secret weapon.

One of them has Squirrel Girl. nutty pluck is just too gg. squirrel girl 50/10

As it appears Primal Monitor may be above The Presence. If that is the case, then The Presence stands no chance.

Originally posted by Q99
Ah, at first this appears to be a draw, but one of them has a secret weapon.

One of them has Squirrel Girl.
And the other has the Batkick.

the one above all would win, unlike the presence the one above all is beyond all of marvel and the marvel omniverse is just ink on paper to him ,he can do a petition and get rid of DCU comics all toghther

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
the one above all would win, unlike the presence the one above all is beyond all of marvel and the marvel omniverse is just ink on paper to him ,he can do a petition and get rid of DCU comics all toghther Except DC is owned by Warner Bros....and come as much as it represents the writer TOAA is still a character like the Presence and no more...

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Except DC is owned by Warner Bros....and come as much as it represents the writer TOAA is still a character like the Presence and no more... no he is not, toaa isnt a character in marvel universe, he is the writer, dont make me post the scan of stan lee being shown as toaa

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
no he is not, toaa isnt a character in marvel universe, he is the writer, dont make me post the scan of stan lee being shown as toaa

So you really think that is Stan Lee??

Seriously its merely a representation...Still its a character in a comic nothing more...just like anyone else...

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Seriously its merely a representation...Still its a character in a comic nothing more...just like anyone else... seriously, it represents the writer and nothing less, this is why no image or feat of him (execpt being shown as stan lee) is shown.

A representation is still just a representation...So when people say things like

"the one above all would win, unlike the presence the one above all is beyond all of marvel and the marvel omniverse is just ink on paper to him ,he can do a petition and get rid of DCU comics all toghther"

that's just stupidity..Its not like any single writer in Marvel has anywhere near that much power in the first place.... Its absolutely inane. These stupid supreme being fights are idiotic cause all they usually end up being is stalemates or people who like one company more than the other supporting their supreme being.

If that's the case Quesada-man is Satan.

Originally posted by SamZED
If that's the case Quesada-man is Satan.

and so is the invented of hypertime... Cough

Stalemate facepalm

TOAA since he has no superior. The Presence does apparently.

marvel wins

It turns out The One Above All really is above all. The Primal Monitor is merely his lackey. And with FC, the Primal Monitor is greater than the Presence.

TOAA wins Infinity/10.

I used to think they were the same concept and therefore would stalemate, but from what I've seen in threads, it seems the Presence is not realy omnipotent in DCU. There are things outside of its jurisdiction, things that existed independently of its will and even existed before it came to be. I'm no expert in DC cosmology though.

I am curious, however, as to whether there is a truly omnipotent being in DCU and how does the verigo seal cosmology - lucifer and hellblazer - fit into the 'mainstream' DCU. Also, there is a wall at the end of the universe in the mainstream DCU, but what about the universes that were incorporated along with wildstorm? and how do they fit into the whole thing? WS universe had its own cosmology going on and some things seem incompatible.

The Presence and the Primal Monitor are one and the same. Or should I say the Presence (or you could call it the Source/Overvoid) is the infinite unknowable mind of the Primal Monitor, a representation of the canvas on which artists and writers create all their fiction.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
no he is not, toaa isnt a character in marvel universe, he is the writer, dont make me post the scan of stan lee being shown as toaa
If you really want to go that route then its Stan Lee vs (assuming you believe Primal Monitor=Presence) Grant Morrison. One is an old man not in any particular good shape while the other is a significantly less old man who probably abuses pain-killers from time to time and thus feels no fear or pain. Fear the bald ones.

It should be noted I don't believe PM=Presence.

Primal Monitor stalemates.

The Presence gets molestered apparently.

Judging from arguments I've seen to put PM above the Presence. The funny thing is, that these same arguments are what Marvel 'fanboys' used to put TOAA above The Presence in the first place... hilarious.

Originally posted by Blanket
Primal Monitor stalemates.

The Presence gets molestered apparently.

Judging from arguments I've seen to put PM above the Presence. The funny thing is, that these same arguments are what Marvel 'fanboys' used to put TOAA above The Presence in the first place... hilarious.
Which arguments do you refer to? The PM's claim to power is that according to one interpretation a Supreme Being grew inside of him along with an entire reality and he scarcely noticed.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Which arguments do you refer to? The PM's claim to power is that according to one interpretation a Supreme Being grew inside of him along with an entire reality and he scarcely noticed.

Would that supreme being be the presence and the dcu? Are there other realities then? would they fall outside of the presence's jurisdiction?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Which arguments do you refer to? The PM's claim to power is that according to one interpretation a Supreme Being grew inside of him along with an entire reality and he scarcely noticed. That the Presence was limited to a multiverse, and didn't have power outside of it.

And scarcely notice is a funny enough statement, considering TOAA has only acknowledged Thanos, the F4, and Spider Man to my recollection, out of the apparently infinite multiverses.

Originally posted by 753
Would that supreme being be the presence and the dcu? Are there other realities then? would they fall outside of the presence's jurisdiction?
According to FC the Primal Monitor was all that existed until at some point reality (story) grew inside of His body. He created the original Monitor to explore said reality.
Originally posted by Blanket
That the Presence was limited to a multiverse, and didn't have power outside of it.

And scarcely notice is a funny enough statement, considering TOAA has only acknowledged Thanos, the F4, and Spider Man to my recollection, out of the apparently infinite multiverses.
According to Lucifer there are other realities (Lucifer's creation) and possibly even a third reality created by the Presence after leaving his original reality assuming he fancied a second try at the whole Creation jazz, there are also other realms like the Dreaming and the Monitor World seen in FC. Right now according at least to Lucifer the original Presence and Lucifer are both wandering the Overvoid (the PM's body) now that they've left the original creation of the Presence. When the Presence referenced outside forces that shaped him it can be retroactively taken to refer to the Primal Monitor and the other Monitors like Mandrakk.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
According to FC the Primal Monitor was all that existed until at some point reality (story) grew inside of His body. He created the original Monitor to explore said reality.

According to Lucifer there are other realities (Lucifer's creation) and possibly even a third reality created by the Presence after leaving his original reality assuming he fancied a second try at the whole Creation jazz, there are also other realms like the Dreaming and the Monitor World seen in FC. Right now according at least to Lucifer the original Presence and Lucifer are both wandering the Overvoid (the PM's body) now that they've left the original creation of the Presence. When the Presence referenced outside forces that shaped him it can be retroactively taken to refer to the Primal Monitor and the other Monitors like Mandrakk. Lucifer, Presence, and Elaine. Ignoring the smaller dimensions which would still equate into a multiverse...
That doesn't make him the lord over 'as much' as TOAA. Hell, that doesn't even make him the lord over those... considering you're taking the Vertigo canon, then he can't be over Lucifer, and Elaine's.

Although I find it interesting that according to TOAA and Presence stalemating, that this would indirectly mean that DC has a character that is infinity times greater than all of Marvel...

Originally posted by Blanket
Lucifer, Presence, and Elaine.
That doesn't make him the lord over 'as much' as TOAA. Hell, that doesn't even make him the lord over those... considering you're taking the Vertigo canon, then he can't be over Lucifer, and Elaine's.

Although I find it interesting that according to TOAA and Presence stalemating, that this would indirectly mean that DC has a character that is infinity times greater than all of Marvel...
Grant Morrison created the PM as DC's match for Squirrel Girl thus ensuring that the two companies would stalemate as before SG was created, thus restoring the balance of nature.

I thought that was Batman with the Bat-Kick?

Originally posted by Blanket
Lucifer, Presence, and Elaine. Ignoring the smaller dimensions which would still equate into a multiverse...
That doesn't make him the lord over 'as much' as TOAA. Hell, that doesn't even make him the lord over those... considering you're taking the Vertigo canon, then he can't be over Lucifer, and Elaine's.

Although I find it interesting that according to TOAA and Presence stalemating, that this would indirectly mean that DC has a character that is infinity times greater than all of Marvel...

If they do stalemate, then yes there would still be PM, but it makes more sense to equate TOAA to PM as they are really above all.

so mxy is grater than the primal moniter? as he destroyed and recreated the omniverse(PMs body) many times?

Originally posted by 753
If they do stalemate, then yes there would still be PM, but it makes more sense to equate TOAA to PM as they are really above all. it would be better to say presence is equal to pre retcon beyonder while toaa is equal to PM

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
so mxy is grater than the primal moniter? as he destroyed and recreated the omniverse(PMs body) many times? Although that sounds ridiculously retarded, it is probably the smartest thing you've posted.

Best not to think like that though, because you'll end up with the same confusion that you end up with thinking about the Primal Monitor.

Originally posted by 753
If they do stalemate, then yes there would still be PM, but it makes more sense to equate TOAA to PM as they are really above all. That's what I was thinking.

Bore draw *yawns*

It is a draw, there's no distinction between the Presence/God and the Source/Overvoid which is the active, infinite & unknowable mind of the PM, which represents the canvas on which all the artists/writers create their fiction.

Originally posted by Allankles
It is a draw, there's no distinction between the Presence/God and the Source/Overvoid which is the active, infinite & unknowable mind of the PM, which represents the canvas on which all the artists/writers create their fiction. being equal in power doesnt equal a stalemate, toaa is more experienced and smarter

lol

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
being equal in power doesnt equal a stalemate, toaa is more experienced and smarter

Considering we are talking about the real God here I doubt that.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
being equal in power doesnt equal a stalemate, toaa is more experienced and smarter *facepalm*...seriously the arguments in this thread are a complete joke.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
being equal in power doesnt equal a stalemate, toaa is more experienced and smarter

But the presence has better combat superspeed, martial arts and h2h skills, so he can combo to ko.

Originally posted by 753
But the presence has better combat superspeed, martial arts and h2h skills, so he can combo to ko.

Like I said before these battles of Supreme beings are completely and utterly pointless...Its a matter of which comic company you prefer or a stalemate.

Originally posted by 753
But the presence has better combat superspeed, martial arts and h2h skills, so he can combo to ko. presence has never shown super speed that im aware of, toaa is smarter he can draw him into a trap or mind rape if all else fails he bfrs him

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
presence has never shown super speed that im aware of, toaa is smarter he can draw him into a trap or mind rape if all else fails he bfrs him

jesus christ...

Originally posted by 753
jesus christ... Surley he aint that thick ????

Originally posted by Nihilist
Surley he aint that thick ????

I dont know...

Originally posted by 753
I find this very confusing. So the presence was not even aware of reality? Didn't it deliberately create or become the dcu reality? Doesn't it make more sense to see the presence as the existing dcu reality or its creator and the outer void as the PM? That way lucifer, the presence, other divine creator types and their respective creations are wandering about inside PM and, of course, are part of it, but are not the entirety of it.

Going by the explanation morrison gave, the overvoid seems to have a mind of its own distinct from the realities within it and from the presence.

Lucifer is a creation of the Presence himself, everything he does is in the multiverse or at least within the Presence. Most writers don't anthromorphosize the Presence he's invisible, formless & infinite, he makes sense as the mind of the Primal Monitor/The Source/Overvoid.

Morrison was organizing these concepts with a metafictional explanation, he actually shows that he was unifying the ideas of other writers rather than making another pointless retcon which will end up being just another litte pocket of a cosmic hierachy not interconnected to others (like John's Earth started life retcon in BN, that's going to be ignored by other writers).

Originally posted by Allankles
Lucifer is a creation of the Presence himself, everything he does is in the multiverse or at least within the Presence. Most writers don't anthromorphosize the Presence he's invisible, formless & infinite, he makes sense as the mind of the Primal Monitor/The Source/Overvoid.

Morrison was organizing these concepts with a metafictional explanation, he actually shows that he was unifying the ideas of other writers rather than making another pointless retcon which will end up being just another litte pocket of a cosmic hierachy not interconnected to others (like John's Earth started life retcon in BN, that's going to be ignored by other writers).

So the presence unknowingly created the DCU? Hasnt it been depicted as deliberately doing things to it and being omniscient in it?

This does not make sense to me at all. Even assuming they are the same thing, then reality came to be inside it by accident?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
presence has never shown super speed that im aware of, toaa is smarter he can draw him into a trap or mind rape if all else fails he bfrs him
Just stop typing.

Originally posted by 753
If god/presence/overvoid/pm are all the same self-absorbed void in which someone 'drew' reality, who is the in-comic representation of the drawer? how do things come to be? Is it just the 'physiology' of the void to create crap arround? Clearly the presence isn't even omniscient then, it's not particularly aware of itself at all.

The "drawer" is manifested through the multiverse or simply 'story', a microscopic creation that formed within the infinite, formless, void of creativity translated to the metaphorical canvas that is the Overvoid/Source/Presence.

Think of the Overvoid/Presence/Source/mind of the Monitor as the metaphorical representation of all the mediums the DC fiction takes place in, in these mediums or void of potential stories, anything is possible.

Now imagine if this infinite metaphorical canvas was alive, and could determine the nature of the stories that take place inside of it.

As far as its awareness of the multiverse, I think part of the nature of PM is that it represents infinite potential so the multiverse or the germ worlds were a consequence of this potential.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Stalemate facepalm

TOAA seems to be a level higher than The Presence in 'omnipotence'.

It's more likely The Presence = THOTI, and Primal Monitor = PR Beyonder, since PR Beyonder was even beyond TOAA.

TOAA is somewhere between THOTI/The Presence and Primal Monitor/PR Beyonder, in a class of its own.

The PR- Beyonder was a mini version of the real God, and DC has him as The Creator of their universe. It is God creates himself and is timeless as is the Void. He is it taken form and then creates creation for his own purpose of finding a meaning. All things come from YHWH/The Presence/The Voice

TOAA

TOAA because the Presence isn't really the DC supreme being anymore.

Who is?

The Presence is God in DC, so that hasn't changed, he's the mind of the Primal Monitor/Overvoid/The Source. These concepts were unified and to be fair, other writers have suggested this before FC and Morrison.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Presence is God in DC, so that hasn't changed, he's the mind of the Primal Monitor/Overvoid/The Source. These concepts were unified and to be fair, other writers have suggested this before FC and Morrison.

So the Presence is an aspect of The Primal Monitor? Like the Word and Voice is to the Presence?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
So the Presence is an aspect of The Primal Monitor? Like the Word and Voice is to the Presence?

Presence is the mind of the Primal Monitor, I would call him the consciousness of the PM.

Originally posted by Allankles
Presence is the mind of the Primal Monitor, I would call him the consciousness of the PM.

so..does that mean it was the Presence who send those Monitor to investigate the DC Universe??

Originally posted by Allankles
Presence is the mind of the Primal Monitor, I would call him the consciousness of the PM.
And the Source is the body? That still doesn't make much sense considering the Source has shown to have a will and purpose of its own separate from the Presence.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
so..does that mean it was the Presence who send those Monitor to investigate the DC Universe??

my problems with it exactly, shouldnt he know about the damned thing? classic presence seemed a lot more envolved with things..tsc... omnipotence isnt what it used to be

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And the Source is the body? That still doesn't make much sense considering the Source has shown to have a will and purpose of its own separate from the Presence.

yeah this is all over the place, I dont think morrison thought this thing through

I agree. It doesn't make sense. The Presence met with Superman on more than one occasion. All of a sudden he doesn't "know" the Multiverse. LMAO>

Originally posted by 753
yeah this is all over the place, I dont think morrison thought this thing through
I think the inconsistency is fine considering inconsistency (and why its part of what makes comics special) was a theme of FC.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And the Source is the body? That still doesn't make much sense considering the Source has shown to have a will and purpose of its own separate from the Presence.

The Source is also the same mind but the Monitor's call it the Overvoid which is also the Presence/God as of FC, I posted the article. Morrison chose to call it the Overvoid (or Mind of the Monitor) the reason being that he considers the metaphorical canvas stories are placed in, to be like an infinite void in which anything can happen.

Guys like Kirby pretty much intended for the Source to be a representation of DC's God in the 4th world, look at how he describes Highfather's first meeting with the Uni Friend? That had Pre Crisis God written all over it.

Even in Vertigo, where characters have in some stories made those type of distinctions, the Source itself has been described as omnipresent, omnipotent etc in Vertigo tales.

Starlin's source entity aside, I've never really understood why they would be seperate entities, since they seem to represent the exact same thing in the same DC reality.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Source is also the same mind but the Monitor's call it the Overvoid which is also the Presence/God as of FC, I posted the article. Morrison chose to call it the Overvoid (or Mind of the Monitor) the reason being that he considers the metaphorical canvas stories are placed in, to be like an infinite void in which anything can happen.

Guys like Kirby pretty much intended for the Source to be a representation of DC's God in the 4th world, look at how he describes Highfather's first meeting with the Uni Friend? That had Pre Crisis God written all over it.

Even in Vertigo, where characters have in some stories made those type of distinctions, the Source itself has been described as omnipresent, omnipotent etc in Vertigo tales.

Starlin's source entity aside, I've never really understood why they would be seperate entities, since they seem to represent the exact same thing in the same DC reality.

Uni Friend?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I agree. It doesn't make sense. The Presence met with Superman on more than one occasion. All of a sudden he doesn't "know" the Multiverse. LMAO>

That was Pre Crisis though wasn't it?

I prefer Morrison's take, it unifies all these concepts that writers have put together post crisis without being consistent with previous ideas.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Uni Friend?

The Source directly conferring with Highfather in the form of a humanoid hand. It was pretty much like the image of Moses in the Bible getting the 10 commandments directly from God.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Source directly conferring with Highfather in the form of a humanoid hand. It was pretty much like the image of Moses in the Bible getting the 10 commandments directly from God.


AKA The Hand.

Just like The Voice or The Word, it is an aspect of The Presence/Yahweh.

We saw the same hand reaching out to The Great Evil Beast.

It was even shown in an animated series..
Justice League Unlimited episode, "The Once and Future Thing, Part 2: Time Warped", where Batman and GL John Stewart chase Chronos before he merges with The Hand.

Stalemate

Originally posted by Xplosive
As it appears Primal Monitor may be above The Presence. If that is the case, then The Presence stands no chance.
If the existence of a character can influence the battle then your reasoning is flawed.

There is no universal rule that says that supreme from fiction A equals supreme from fiction B.

The Presence and TOAA stalemate in a yin-yang creation/destruction fest.

why the hell does the presence need to explore the universe?
if he is omnipotent he can scan the whole omniverse in .00001 seconds and be done with, better yet he should have known about it in the first place

Originally posted by Astner
If the existence of a character can influence the battle then your reasoning is flawed.

There is no universal rule that says that supreme from fiction A equals supreme from fiction B.

Then that means that The Presence isn't supreme in DC and can't match the supreme TOAA.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Then that means that The Presence isn't supreme in DC and can't match the supreme TOAA.
Supremacy has nothing to do with power. You can be supreme without being infinite and omnipotent.

Originally posted by Astner
Supremacy has nothing to do with power. You can be supreme without being infinite and omnipotent. umm no, supreme coincides with power.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
umm no, supreme coincides with power.
No, only with power-scaling, and not always at that either. Take the supreme character of say Dragonball. He wouldn't win against the Living Tribunal.

You can't be above omnipotence.

Originally posted by galactusischere
You can't be above omnipotence.
Incorrect.

There are levels of omnipotence.

Proof:

"While we, on the other hand, are limited by our omnipotence." - Kubik

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/567899_k2.jpg

"You're deemed worthy to retain your omnipotent position within your own universe." - Living Tribunal to the Beyonder

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8327/b1zd4.th.jpg

Scans by Mr Master.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Presence and the Primal Monitor are one and the same. Or should I say the Presence (or you could call it the Source/Overvoid) is the infinite unknowable mind of the Primal Monitor, a representation of the canvas on which artists and writers create all their fiction.

Scans?

Originally posted by Astner
Incorrect.

There are levels of omnipotence.

Proof:

"While we, on the other hand, are limited by our omnipotence." - Kubik

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/567899_k2.jpg

"You're deemed worthy to retain your omnipotent position within your own universe." - Living Tribunal to the Beyonder

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8327/b1zd4.th.jpg

Scans by Mr Master.

theres a difference ,Dormammu is omnipotent in his realm, eternity is omnipotent in a single universe (his universe) LT is omnipotent in the multiverse, Toaa is omnipotent for the omniverse.

yes there are different levels but only Toaa is "truley" omnipotent

Originally posted by Astner
Supremacy has nothing to do with power. You can be supreme without being infinite and omnipotent.

only if there isnt an omnipotent to challenge you

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
why the hell does the presence need to explore the universe?
if he is omnipotent he can scan the whole omniverse in .00001 seconds and be done with, better yet he should have known about it in the first place

The PM wasn't exploring the universe he was exploring a microscopic part of his infinite being. Try to imagine exploring through infinite space, that happens to be all a part of you, he created the Monitors &/or Angels to deal with this.

He's supposed to represent all the mediums onto which DC fiction is translated to, makes sense from that point of view.

Envision this potential space for potential stories as an infinite living void. The Overvoid is an infinite living space where any "story' could be created, a living void that houses the entire DC fiction and potential fictions.

Mandrakk (a part of this living void that felt contaminated by stories) threatened to consume all the stories within this infinite void, stories that essential formed the microscopic clusters of life called multiverse/creation.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Scans?

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/950/950703p2.html

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C

theres a difference ,Dormammu is omnipotent in his realm, eternity is omnipotent in a single universe (his universe) LT is omnipotent in the multiverse, Toaa is omnipotent for the omniverse.

yes there are different levels but only Toaa is "truley" omnipotent
That's not what makes beings omnipotent friend.
The right cat enters Dormy's realm and he'll get stomped regardless of his omnipotence.

In Marvel, what makes one omnipotent, is being able to warp space-time on a cosmic scale.

And there are several beings that are omnipotent on an omniversal scale.
TOAA is not one of them, TOAA is not to be categorized in levels of any kind,
since TOAA is the one that makes characters "omnipotent" with a stroke of their pencil.
In fact, TOAA even stated that he doesn't even know what's gonna happen next,
until the story is imagined by his other half (his collaborator the 'Writer"
This is an obvious relation to a limited human perception, since that's what TOAA represents.

TOAA > in-universe supreme beings/Gods whatever.

The Presence has had several indications of not being omnipotent, such as God Swamp Thing threatening to replace him, the whole GEB incident, this new stuff about the Primal Monitor, and of course the quote at the end of Lucifer. TOAA doesn't have such flaws

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The Presence has had several indications of not being omnipotent, such as God Swamp Thing threatening to replace him, the whole GEB incident, this new stuff about the Primal Monitor, and of course the quote at the end of Lucifer. TOAA doesn't have such flaws
One way or another, they were all destined to fail.

No in-universe character can replace The Presence.

As I see, The Primal Monitor created The Presence to be the sole being that reigns supreme in the DC omniverse.

And by the PM's concept, he may be the readers and/or the DC writers/artists, and not a singular cosmic being.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
TOAA doesn't have such flaws
You can't base an argument on that lack of evidence.

If the Primal Monitor in forthcoming issues demonstrate limits, you can't say that before that event he was limitless. It's the same character.

I think people are getting too hung up on the definition of Omnipotent, really its the writers' faults for using the term so cavalierly to refer to any Tom, Dick, or Harry that seems to be all powerful in the eyes of mere Mortals.

According to the OHOTMU (though its questionable if such an opinion is 'canon' for DC as well, though in this case I side with Marvel on their interpretation) that in effect the Omniverse includes all fiction as well as the real world and it could be argued (indeed it is logically imperative to understand) that if this is true and DC and Marvel both share an Omniverse that the PM/Presence and TOAA are one in the same and are merely different manifestations in different parts of the Omniverse.

Indeed you can't have (if I might quote the mostly God-awful movie Forbidden Kingdom) two Tigers on One Mountain. A truly Omniscient, Omnipresent, and Omnipotent Being can only be singular as a matter of logic because if you have two beings that know everything (including what the other knows and is thinking) and share the same exact space (being Omnipresent) then there is in effect no real distinction between them since they occupy both the same point of reality (everything) and have the same exact thought processes and knowledge (again, everything).

Is my view speculation? Yes. Conjecture? Yes. Canon? Probably not. Is it logical? I like to think so.

IMO this is a stalemate because this fight essentially translates to "Me vs Myself vs I Pure h/h Slugfest".