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who wins even thogh i know everyone will say L because of his fanbase

Not because of his fanbase.


L is factually smarter then Shikamaru.

Yeah, I'm goin' wit L as well

I think it'd mainly be who studies chess more. They're both very smart, in somewhat different ways, so knowledge and study of the game would matter a lot.

I don't recall actually seeing L play much.

Does Chess even exist in Naruto?

No.

I say Shikamaru as hes put tons of hours into playing Shogi.

Originally posted by BloodRain
I say Shikamaru as hes put tons of hours into playing Shogi.

Wrong.

Chess requires the ability to be able to predict an opponent's moves and respond with the right moves.


L essentially played Chess with Light and would have have won if not for Rem the blatant plot device.

L's intelligence is vastly superior to Shikamaru's and his ability to predict his opponent's moves is hard to surpass.

L destroys Shikamaru.

Really I don't think we have enough to say L's intelligence is vastly superior. Shikamaru is very brilliant when it comes into tactics, and the kind of game played in death note of detective work is fairly different than a chess game.

I think it'd be a good match and if they played 10 times both would get wins.

He singled Light Yagami out of everybody on Earth. That's an example of his intelligence. What does Shikamaru have that is on par with this?

To properly win Chess, one has to be able to guess his opponent's moves. L excels in this.

Three words: Shadow Possession Jutsu. : )

This is a Chess Match jr_erm01

Shikamaru wins because he actually knows something of chess strategy from playing Shogi.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
He singled Light Yagami out of everybody on Earth. That's an example of his intelligence



Have to agree wit this and he also likened the "game" wit Kira to that of chess several times. I think L knows how to play chess and unlike Shikamaru, L is unrealistically intelligent.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k401/gameboy92/Facing_L_in_Chess_by_AmekumoHaseo1.jpg

I also would like to say, Shogi is not the same as chess, they are similar but shogi is easier.

lol how is Shogi easier, it's just that it's less played than chess so it doesn't have as many advanced strategies around it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
lol how is Shogi easier, it's just that it's less played than chess so it doesn't have as many advanced strategies around it.

And you can also use your opponent's captured pieces against them. I wish I could do that in a Chess game, that would be so helpful. Chess is so damn harsh...I love it.

Personally I like Go more than either.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Personally I like Go more than either.

I never played Go, I really wanted to, I just don't think I'm ready to rap my head around another mind game. I may get around to it eventually.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
This is a Chess Match jr_erm01

lol yeah i know... but Shikamaru is a cheater

^ He's a ninja, why would he play fair? xD

It would be the longest chess match if they both played :/

L was in all of five minutes able to single out Kira's location to a single city in Japan.

Despite Light's numerous advantages over L, L singled him out to a 95% chance of being Kira.

L is virtually clairvoyant in his ability to predict actions, they are not even comparable.

Originally posted by BloodRain

It would be the longest chess match if they both played :/
Riiiight


Seems like the Naruto fans here haven't even watched Death Note.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Riiiight


Seems like the Naruto fans here haven't even watched Death Note.

Seen everything about Death note

Though L is most defiantly smarter i feel Shikamaru can plan ahead like L to even it out. L.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Riiiight


Seems like the Naruto fans here haven't even watched Death Note.
I've read all of death note and all of naruto... L may be smarter but to me it comes down to, Shikamaru knows how to play games similar to chess at an expert level, while we've seen no indication L does at all.

Just like i'd give characters from Hikaru no Go the win over L in Go. They're all dumber, but they all are experts at it.

I will note that two exceptional players doesn't necessarily mean a longer game.



Indeed. Sai or Hikari could probably school L and Shikamaru in Go playing two boards at the same time. Because that's what they do- play Go.

L is probably the overall smarter (and without a doubt by far the better at being a detective or play headgames), Shikamaru is purely a tactician, and he plays shogi a lot while L probably just dusts it off occasionally and wins against most foes on pure talent.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Riiiight


Seems like the Naruto fans here haven't even watched Death Note.

I have watched and read all of Death Note thank you very much. Shikamaru does have more proof showing that he an expert at chess though, as other people have stated.
The shadow possession comment from earlier was just a joke, but it could still happen. Shikamaru is a ninja, he doesn't have to be as smart as, or smarter than L to beat him in a game of chess. He could just cheat by using the jutsu to make L move all of his pawns out of the way, and take his king.... check and mate

p.s. Don't assume that people don't know what they are talking about from the start. if you knew anything about Naruto, you would have gotten the joke from the beginning, seeing how no matter how smart L was he couldn't stop Shikamaru from cheating. but nooo... You just assume I'm just some Naruto fan boy who has no idea what he's talking about.

Yea, all this "Shikamaru is good at a game similar to chess and cuz we never seen L play Chess, Shikamaru would automatically win" would be okay to a degree if the 2 in question were even close in intelligence. But we know L is damn near clairvoyant and that he knows how to play. The guy would literally predict shikamaru's every move after 5 minutes just by lookin' at how Shikamura moves his eyes. L has already done things that makes a game of chess wit a child seem like child's play. I think that's the point.
Other factors come into play in a chess game, not just who has been seen playin' the most.

That's like sayin' Usain Bolt would beat Goku in a 200 Metres just cuz Goku has never did a sprint event before. Does Goku really need to run a 200 Metres to prove he can win this event? Shikamaru is very impressive, especially for his age, but L is clearly beyond Shikamaru in the basic human stats needed to play chess. Does he really have to play this game in order to prove he can win?

L playin chess, wit Light.
http://www.cinemaisdope.com/news/films/deathnotelastname/deathnotethelastnameB.jpg

How about with 10 rounds?

Actually, yes. L is smart, but he's not *that* extreme in his superhuman smarts, and Shikamaru can claim to some superhuman smarts too. There's a gap, but it's not orders of magnitude.

And a brilliant supergenius who plays occasionally will get their clocks totally cleaned by a less smart person who's a chess pro.

No-one gets to the top rungs of chess (or shogi or go) without a lot of study no matter how smart they are. Good players do, after all, look at all the greatest games played in the past and internalize them, as well as all the previous games they've played, and that study is a big edge in itself.

Originally posted by Q99
Actually, yes. L is smart, but he's not *that* extreme in his superhuman smarts, and Shikamaru can claim to some superhuman smarts too. There's a gap, but it's not orders of magnitude.

L is not comic book super villain smart but his mind works faster and more efficient than humanly possible today. Either that or he's damn Lucky. He is leagues beyond Shika.

Originally posted by Q99
And a brilliant supergenius who plays occasionally will get their clocks totally cleaned by a less smart person who's a chess pro.
A brilliant super-genius who specializes in detective skills and plays occasionally will clean the shit out of a kid's clock who clearly pales in comparison to the magnitude of super-genius's knowledge...even if the kid plays all the time. "Experience only gets you so far, brains gets you farther."

Originally posted by Q99
No-one gets to the top rungs of chess (or shogi or go) without a lot of study no matter how smart they are. Good players do, after all, look at all the greatest games played in the past and internalize them, as well as all the previous games they've played, and that study is a big edge in itself.

Dude, no one gets to the top rungs of chess by just studyin' alone (but you have to and ALOT) and of course, high IQ's still need to learn how to play. But Chess is not a video game, human intelligence comes heavily into play and it gets to a point where you have to be good, you HAVE to be intelligent in order to be good. Idiots will never be good at Chess, no matter what anyone says.


Chess is the touchstone of intellect.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe-

Double Post.

I would also like to note that just cuz your smart as hell, doesn't mean your gonna be good.

But the saying means you need brains in addition to the experience, not that brains on it's own will do.

And no, that's simply not how chess works. If the kid's equal to a pro, then a great detective genius will lose, because detective skills do not necessarily translate to chess skills, they're very different skill sets.

You need *both* brains and experience to be really really good. If someone has only one, then experience beats brain. If someone has both, then neither individually will do against it, even in good quantity. L has brains. Shikamaru has brains and experience. Even having more brains won't make up for it- and their intelligence gap simply isn't that large to begin with, when it comes to tactics.




And a lot of it is knowing the little tricks and tactics and so on that smart people accumulate, in addition to intelligence. Even the most brilliant players didn't start at the time, they worked their way up there from experience and they continue to steadily improve for years, hundreds if not thousands of games before they get to the top. It's a combination.

And Shikamaru is far from an idiot, he has an IQ of over 200 and it shows. Maybe you're thinking of some other Naruto character?

L might be able to beat a dumb person who's played chess for awhile, but he will not beat someone who is both very smart and plays chess a lot more.


---

One example is someone with great brains might come up with a brilliant move that's almost impossible to counter. They won't know that because it's such a brilliant move, a brilliant player before did it, and it made it's rounds, so even though the response is really tricky, the other player already knows it and doesn't even have to think it up, and can start planning their counter offensive ahead of time.

Or to put it another way: Yes, chess involves brains. It's also so *complex* a game that no matter how smart you are you can't fully analyze it and you need to rely a lot on preexisting knowledge of the game from experience, and that knowledge takes a lot of time to accumulate.

It being a game of brains doesn't mean your IQ going in is the primary factor in your skill level. Two people of equal intelligence could start out the same, have one get good enough to stomp the other, then have the other person not only catch up but surpass them by pushing themselves hard enough. It's not just raw intelligence, but practiced intelligence.

Originally posted by Q99
But the saying means you need brains in addition to the experience, not that brains on it's own will do.

True, but remarkable skill <<<<<<<<<<<<<brains and decent skill.

Originally posted by Q99
And no, that's simply not how chess works. If the kid's equal to a pro, then a great detective genius will lose, because detective skills do not necessarily translate to chess skills, they're very different skill sets.

What Chess games are you playin' where detective skills are not necessary? What ever your talkin' about, it aint chess our your simply not good. Detectives have to read thier targets and study their habits and moves. The average person can not out smart a genius more often than a genius can out smart them. That's why they're a genius

Originally posted by Q99
You need *both* brains and experience to be really really good. If someone has only one, then experience beats brain. If someone has both, then neither individually will do against it, even in good quantity. L has brains. Shikamaru has brains and experience. Even having more brains won't make up for it- and their intelligence gap simply isn't that large to begin with, when it comes to tactics.

You are fundamentally wrong. I was always taught that experience helps you play chess well, intelligence helps you win. Less experienced players beat people who have been playin' for years all the time. What decides a match if both players are equally experienced? Intelligence. Like I said, there will come a point where you have to actually use your brain, not just your eyes.


Originally posted by Q99
And a lot of it is knowing the little tricks and tactics and so on that smart people accumulate, in addition to intelligence. Even the most brilliant players didn't start at the time, they worked their way up there from experience and they continue to steadily improve for years, hundreds if not thousands of games before they get to the top. It's a combination.

Knowin' the little "tricks and tactics" is part of intelligence and I agree, it's a combination, but one guy in this thread is WAY more intelligent than the other. The brilliant players will have to play alot less than the average man to accumulate a meaningful amount of knowledge through experience. What an average man learns in 100 games, a genius will learn in 20. Experience is dire in playin' the game, but you have to be smarter than the guy who has played 1000 more games than you if you want to win and you have to be intelligent to learn anything from experience. It's a fact.

Originally posted by Q99
And Shikamaru is far from an idiot, he has an IQ of over 200 and it shows. Maybe you're thinking of some other Naruto character?

I didn't mean Shika was an idiot, but you made it seem like anyone can get good at Chess if they just play the game. Which is not true.

Originally posted by Q99
L might be able to beat a dumb person who's played chess for awhile, but he will not beat someone who is both very smart and plays chess a lot more.

L will be able to beat a very smart person who plays chess a lot more, because L is not new to the game and he is beyond very smart. L has shown that he thinks too far ahead for Shika to even match him. An IQ of 200 is still humanly possible, what L has shown in the manga is not.


Originally posted by Q99
---

One example is someone with great brains might come up with a brilliant move that's almost impossible to counter. They won't know that because it's such a brilliant move, a brilliant player before did it, and it made it's rounds, so even though the response is really tricky, the other player already knows it and doesn't even have to think it up, and can start planning their counter offensive ahead of time.

When 2 foes are equally skilled and have an equal amount of experience and practice, which you should always assume. The knowledge you have over your opponent, the skills you can't gain from just playin' chess will win you the game.

Originally posted by Q99
Or to put it another way: Yes, chess involves brains. It's also so *complex* a game that no matter how smart you are you can't fully analyze it and you need to rely a lot on preexisting knowledge of the game from experience, and that knowledge takes a lot of time to accumulate.

It being a game of brains doesn't mean your IQ going in is the primary factor in your skill level. Two people of equal intelligence could start out the same, have one get good enough to stomp the other, then have the other person not only catch up but surpass them by pushing themselves hard enough. It's not just raw intelligence, but practiced intelligence.

The opposite can be said as well. It's not raw knowledge, but you can't go anywhere with out it. How do you think the "computer beat the man"? The computer can conceive every possible outcome in a moment and make the proper move.

i dont know if L is even smarter than shikamaru, he is definitely better at figuring out mysteries, but that alone does not make him a better strategist. shikamaru's strategies in his battles are similar in complexities to L's strategies in death note, L's are just at a larger scale. Also Shikamaru comes up with strategies while literally in a corner, with his life on the line in battle, so he would be amazing under pressure in a chess match.

however, i do believe L would win 7/10 times

L, precognition ftw!

Brains are a prerequisit of remarkable skill, and brains and remarkable skill > brains and decent skill.

Nor is the difference that big.



But it's detecting two different things. Sure, there's some minor overlap, but it's not a 1:1 transition.

Also, as you seem to be overlooking, the opponent is a genius.




That's assuming equal experience, and Shikamaru is well beyond the point when he's using just his eyes.

You need to get a certain amount of experience to be able to beat someone who is both experienced and really smart, even if you're smart. Your arguments are mostly assuming Shikamaru is "experienced, but nothing special IQ wise," instead of a demonstrated tactical genius himself.

If two people aren't far off in intelligence (or at the least, aren't orders of magnitude off), then the one with quite a lot more experience will win.


Casual players, even geniuses, do not walk into the ranks of higher chess pros. Low ones, sure, but not top players. It is necessary to play a ton of games *even for geniuses*, because the foes are smart too.



Except we know Shikamaru plays all the time, it's his major pasttime, and L plays casually at most.

This isn't a match between two pros who both have years of chess experience, just one with even more. This is a match between someone who plays casually, and someone who spends a lot of time playing with skilled foes regularly as a way to sharpen his tactical skills.

Originally posted by Q99
Brains are a prerequisit of remarkable skill, and brains and remarkable skill > brains and decent skill

Nor is the difference that big..

Brains is not always a prerequisite for remarkable skill, it totally depends on the situation and what skills your usin'.

The difference is big enough to matter.


Originally posted by Q99
But it's detecting two different things. Sure, there's some minor overlap, but it's not a 1:1 transition.

Also, as you seem to be overlooking, the opponent is a genius.

Your missin' my point, L is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good at a set of skills that it will unrealistically help him in another area. His precognition has been shown to be so great that HE IS ALMOST PSYCHIC. That was the point of the picture I posted. Not a 1:1 transition for detective skills and chess.

I'm not overlookin' Shika at all, L has just shown a FAR higher level of clairvoyance, precognition and retrocognition than Shika can deal wit. L is the type of person who does not need to gain experience, all he needs to know is how to play the game. After that, it's over. It has nothing to do wit chess skills or intelligence. It was wrong and ignorant of me to group these skills in wit intelligence, may bad and I think that's where we got off track. Hell, Shika may be smarter than L, who knows.




Originally posted by Q99
That's assuming equal experience, and Shikamaru is well beyond the point when he's using just his eyes.

You need to get a certain amount of experience to be able to beat someone who is both experienced and really smart, even if you're smart. Your arguments are mostly assuming Shikamaru is "experienced, but nothing special IQ wise," instead of a demonstrated tactical genius himself.

If two people aren't far off in intelligence (or at the least, aren't orders of magnitude off), then the one with quite a lot more experience will win.


Casual players, even geniuses, do not walk into the ranks of higher chess pros. Low ones, sure, but not top players. It is necessary to play a ton of games *even for geniuses*, because the foes are smart too.



Except we know Shikamaru plays all the time, it's his major pasttime, and L plays casually at most.

This isn't a match between two pros who both have years of chess experience, just one with even more. This is a match between someone who plays casually, and someone who spends a lot of time playing with skilled foes regularly as a way to sharpen his tactical skills.

And I'm not gonna argue wit this, cuz chess is a game that can be seen in many ways and can be interpreted in many ways. What I may see, may not be the same as the way you see it. It's all points of view and opinions at the end of the day.

My point is, Shika is very smart and good at Shogi (a game that is not chess) but L's deductive reasoning and precognition is at a level that allows him to accurately predict the future. Shika is not messin' wit that, no matter how good at Shogi he is. L is like the Chess computer, not as perfect but similar.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Hell, Shika may be smarter than L, who knows.

He isn't.

L has been stated to be the smartest person in Death Note, a world full of geniuses, by the author. L has shown amazing intellect, I have seen nothing very impressive from Shikamaru. Not saying he's an idiot, but his feats of intellect are nothing compared to L's.

lol at this thread. It's like saying that Light would beat Bobby Fischer in chess. And the reason why computers are good with chess is because their programmed with enough understanding of strategy to know which move is the best in the first place. L can try and predict moves all he wants but without a deep understanding of the game he won't know what he should be predicting based on because he doesn't know how the game is supposed to develop.

How many people who make these "chess match" threads have ever even played the game?

You know it's not all about pure intelligence. Bobby Fischer was a high school dropout. Mikhail Tal, one of the greatest players of all time, was a perpetual drunk.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
How many people who make these "chess match" threads have ever even played the game?

You know it's not all about pure intelligence. Bobby Fischer was a high school dropout. Mikhail Tal, one of the greatest players of all time, was a perpetual drunk.

I hate when people bring up Bobby Fischer. So bein' a High school dropout or drunk makes you unintellegent? I have been playin' chess since I was 7. You aint gotta be a genius but bein' a dummy doesn't help.

Originally posted by King Kandy
lol at this thread. It's like saying that Light would beat Bobby Fischer in chess.

Light is not L

Originally posted by King Kandy
And the reason why computers are good with chess is because their programmed with enough understanding of strategy to know which move is the best in the first place.

The Computer isn't progrmed to be the best in the world, it's designed to beat you. It doesn't have this all encompassing strategy that never fails, it adjusts to you.

Originally posted by King Kandy
L can try and predict moves all he wants but without a deep understanding of the game he won't know what he should be predicting based on because he doesn't know how the game is supposed to develop.

Your makin' it sound like L has never played the game before, like Shikamaru. At the very least L exists in a world where chess is an actual game. So I am assume that both characters automatically know how it's played and that's all L needs to know.

i'd like to see L wrap his brain around fighting tayuya (provided he had shika's jutsu and chackra pool).

he'd piss himself once those oni came out. lol

but seriously, shikamaru is also learning about an opponent he has no info on (with totally inhuman capabilities) while he makes plans, and his life is in direct danger out on the field. L gets to do his thing in a penthouse with high calorie snacks fueling his mental capacity. shikamaru's no chump

Peeps aint givin' L enough cred.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i'd like to see L wrap his brain around fighting tayuya (provided he had shika's jutsu and chackra pool).

he'd piss himself once those oni came out. lol

but seriously, shikamaru is also learning about an opponent he has no info on (with totally inhuman capabilities) while he makes plans, and his life is in direct danger out on the field. L gets to do his thing in a penthouse with high calorie snacks fueling his mental capacity. shikamaru's no chump

No, he wouldn't.

And L narrowed down Kira to a single city in Japan in a few minutes with little to no info.

K, being able to think on your feet is great and all, but this is a chess match. =l

lol, with the method L used anyone could have figured out where Kira was...